Meet the Press NOW - October 25

If it's Wednesday, after three weeks of chaos, Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives have finally elected a new speaker, putting Congressman Mike Johnson at the center of political dysfunction and wartime turbulence. Plus, new levels of urgency in the Israel Hamas War, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells his citizens to prepare for a ground invasion of Gaza, while eight groups warn they are shutting down operations tonight due to a lack of resources. And former President Donald Trump picks the sand in a head-turning moment in New York Court, as a judge finds in $10,000, saying the former president violated a gag order in his civil fraud trial.

Welcome to Meet the Press Now, I'm Dave Gutierrez in Washington, where more than three weeks of political paralysis in the U.S. House of Representatives are finally over. Therefore, the honorable Mike Johnson of the State of Louisiana, having received a majority of the votes cast, is duly elected Speaker of the House of Representatives for the 118th Congress. This afternoon, the House elected Republican Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana as the next House Speaker.

Johnson receives the Speaker's gavel more than three weeks after the House voted the House, Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Johnson won by a strictly partisan vote of 220 to 209, receiving votes from every Republican lawmaker present. Every Democrat voted for Minority Leader, Hakeem Jeffries. It took four ballots and four Speaker Designents to elect Johnson, a key ally of Donald Trump and a key architect of House Republicans' efforts attempting to overturn the 2020 election.

Johnson is also one of the most inexperienced House speakers in recent history, and he has been thrown headfirst into swirling conference chaos with House Republicans remaining deeply divided, now having to navigate the politics of war as the White House urgently seeks more than $100 billion in aid largely for Israel and Ukraine, while also facing another government funding deadline next month. Johnson's first active speaker is expected to be a vote on a bipartisan resolution supporting Israel in its war against Hamas. That vote could come this hour. Last hour, Johnson delivered remarks outside the Capitol, immediately after taking the gavel, reiterating the urgency of the moment he faces.

I want to speak. We're going to speak with clarity and conviction and consistency to the American people. We're going to tell them what we're for, what agenda we are pursuing, and why it is best for every American. This group will deliver for the American people.

I said it in the chamber, and I will say it here, we're going to govern well, and I think the people are going to be very pleased with those results. And joining me now with the breaking news from Capitol Hill is NBC's senior national political reporter, Sahil Kapoor. Sahil, what will Congress look like with a speaker? Mike Johnson.

Well, Gabe, he's going to inherit all the same problems that former speaker Kevin McCarthy had when he was evicted about three weeks ago. The first big items on his agenda are how to avert a government shutdown, which is just a few weeks away now on November 17th. Johnson and a recent letter to colleagues laid out his proposal, which is the past another short-term funding bill through either January 15th or April 15th depending on where the votes are. That gives Republicans time to complete their appropriations bills.

The big question here is how he's going to negotiate with the Senate, controlled by Democrats. I was going to negotiate with White House, controlled by President Joe Biden, who have very different priorities than him. This was the puzzle that Kevin McCarthy was ultimately unable to solve. And time will tell whether Mike Johnson is able to do what McCarthy couldn't.

Johnson is also going to be facing a supplemental request from the Biden administration worth about $105 billion that includes Israel, A.T., Ukraine, as it continues to fend off Russian aggression as well as policies to contain the rise of China, a lot on his plate, at least in the foreseeable future. And just beyond that, there's a National Defense Authorization Act, a Farm Bill, FAA renewal that he's got to do. All these things, in the midst of divided government, and a narrow majority will see if Mike Johnson can handle it better than his predecessor did. And Sahil, here's a basic question that a lot of people around the country are asking.

Who is Mike Johnson? It's an excellent question. And indeed, many people are asking that, but there's 24 hours ago, he was little known to the vast majority of, you know, vast warts of the American public, he's the vice chair of the Republican Conference, which is a leadership position that doesn't typically get a lot of attention. And now, just 24 hours later, he has become Speaker of the House.

So who is he? A few things to know about him. Mike Johnson has a solidly conservative voting record, scores very highly on the score cards of right-wing groups. He voted against the recent stopgap bill that Kevin McCarthy put on the floor to avert a government shutdown, voted with many Republicans on that measure.

He's an animated opponent of legal abortion, as well as LGBT rights, introduced a number of bills to that effect. He came in with Trump's approval, with Donald Trump's approval, sort of. Trump said he wasn't endorsing Johnson before the vote, but said Republicans should just go ahead and elect him and get this done. And after he was ultimately elected to the Speaker of Trump, Trump put out a statement congratulating him.

Johnson has also gotten some criticism for his role in promoting conspiracy theories and election denial claims, specifically crafting an argument that a lot of Republicans rallied around to object to start buying some, providing electors. That's been a real focal point of the early criticism from Democrats. He also back in the mid-November of 2020 promoted some conspiracy theories about Hugo Chavez and Dominion voting systems, especially bringing the election that were widely discredited at the time. And finally, he's only been in Congress for about seven years or so.

He's a fresh face, not very experienced. And it turns out that's exactly what Republicans wanted. And as you mentioned, Democrats have been highlighting some of that criticism with regards to his abortion record and some of those conspiracy theories. Do you think his election was just a matter of Republican fatigue?

It was partly that. Yes, having no Speaker of the House for three weeks and having to suffer through hours upon hours in a capital basement with colleagues that many of them didn't like all the bad blood that had developed. They were desperate to move on and elect a Speaker, but it wasn't just fatigue. Mike Johnson did what his predecessors couldn't do, which was find 217 Republicans that didn't strongly dislike him.

This did not come down to who Republicans liked the most. It came down to who these members hated the least. McCarthy made his enemies. He was ultimately evicted.

Jim Jordan had groups of politically vulnerable and centrist Republicans who opposed him, couldn't stomach Jim Jordan. Mike Johnson was able to bring those together. And that's why he's now the Speaker of the House again. So I'll thank you.

And I'm joined now by Congressman David Valadeo, Republican Congressman from California, who like all of his Republican colleagues voted for Mike Johnson today. I'm congruent. Thanks so much for joining us here. I'm going to press now.

Do you think that Mike Johnson can be more effective as a House Speaker than Kevin McCarthy was? You know, I think the situation changed a little bit. But before the whole addiction of Kevin McCarthy, people thought that we would just move on. And the fight we've had over the past three weeks, I think, has educated some of these members that play games like they did this last time, they don't want to go through that again.

Do you worry about whether he's been vetted properly, considering how quickly he sent it? Well, obviously there's always concern with any member that gets in a position like that. But as you can imagine, as we've learned very, very well over the last nine months, five votes can change the direction of anything really quick in this building. Well, if you supported empowering Patrick McHenry here, is this a better outcome than that?

I think it is. I mean, obviously he's supporting Patrick McHenry. I think he was doing a great job. Setting that precedent was a little bit dangerous and something we were all concerned with.

But ultimately, what we wanted to do was get back to the work for the American people. Congressman, President Biden won in your district. So how do you explain to your constituents who voted for President Biden, then you just made a Republican who worked over turned the 2020 election House Speaker? You know, of all the members of Congress, there are a lot of folks that I probably disagree with on a lot of topics.

I think my position on that has been very clear. Obviously I've taken some really tough votes on that. But the reality of the situation is what people in my district want me to do more than anything is just get us back to work and focus on the issues that actually affect our pocketbook today. And Congressman, I understand that a lot of people in Congress disagree about a lot of things.

It's something so critical to our democracy. That's central question about whether the 2020 election was stolen. How can you square that with those constituents? I think pretty much every single person that was up for the Speaker ballot, except for comment with someone that I probably disagree with on that topic.

And the reality is, is we need to move forward and I think we need to focus on those issues. So people in my district, the median income is $44,000. They need to get affordable energy prices. They need a lower interest rate.

So we have to have an impact on what the inflation rates are impacting their lives on a daily basis. Food prices, home prices. There's a million things going on that I think are very important to these people. And the number of calls I've gotten over the last few weeks over the Speaker election is under $1,000.

They're closer to $100,000. I think people just want us to get back to work and I think that's what we did today. What Congressmen, so if I understand it correctly, are you saying this is just the best of some really bad choices? No, I didn't say that at all.

I mean, the reality is, in this position, the Speaker, as we've well learned over the last few days, over the last few months, is it's a position that helps us move bills off the House floor. But five votes can change anything. So obviously, there's going to be some disagreement. But there's five members here that are willing to change the course of history and change the course of the direction of this House.

And it's pretty easy to do. And so I'm not concerned about some disagreements. I'm concerned about us moving and focus on issues that impact every day Americans where we think that there won't be another motion to vacate at any given time. Well, I'm not committed to the idea that that won't happen again.

I imagine when he pushed the CR, the same thing that some of these guys used to House McCarthy will be an issue because he's already started talking about that. But the reality is the vast majority of members of Congress on the Republican side and Democrats side do not want to government shutdown. And if they're going to use that as a hammer to take out him, then sadly, the American people are going to see it and hopefully the Democrats don't play into that. Because the last one was just eight Republicans and 208 Democrats that allowed this disaster to start.

Hopefully, they're smart enough to figure out that this isn't a good strategy. And Congressman, you know, on that point, you voted for the CR to keep the government open through November 17. Would you support another CR to avoid a shutdown? Yeah.

Obviously, a shutdown is the worst case scenario. A CR is just a little bit better than that. Ultimately, what I want to see is that's moved those appropriations bills from my committee. Obviously, I sent them the appropriations committee, so that's a priority of mine.

But CR is the next best option. And so we'll do that if we need to. And Congressman, I want to get a reaction to something that DCC spokesman Dan Gottlieb told Politico. He said vulnerable Republicans like Calvert Duarte or C.S.D.

on Belladillo have spent the past week showing Californians exactly who they are enablers of their party's worst impulses and far-right extremists who want to ban abortion and overturn election results. These GOP shows can speak about moderation so they don't know the face, but they cave to their MAGA extremist friends almost every time. Your response? Sadly, any time the Democrat party comes out with their attack ads, I mean, I've sadly dealt with those for a long time.

I can't worry about that. But the situation that we were in for the last three weeks was created literally by eight people who wanted to create some chaos. And they couldn't have done that without the help of the 208 Democrats that joined in the clown car wasn't a great this circus. Sadly, they played a major role in this and now they're trying to point fingers to others, but the reality is they played the biggest role in this.

Congressman, final question, big picture, is the Republican conference stronger today than it was three weeks ago? I believe so. I think a lot of people learned that the strategy that those eight took was not productive and hopefully they don't try to play that game again unless the Speaker Johnson really just gets out of line. Congressman Belladillo of California, thank you so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now.

And for more, I'm joined by our panel, Betsy Woodruff-Swan, National Correspondent for Politico and an NBC News contributor, Maria Thorese Kumar, President and CEO of Voto Latino and also an NBC News contributor, and Carlos Guabello, former Republican Congressman from Florida, and you guessed it, an NBC News contributor as well. Thank you so much, all of you for joining us here. And Betsy, I want to start with you. Does the fact that Johnson is not particularly well-known work in his favor?

I was speaking with a colleague of mine, a reporter in Louisiana, who says that, look, a lot of people in that say probably couldn't pick him out of a lineup. Does this help him here in the Republican Congress, strangely? There's no question that the fact that he hasn't had Republican foes pushing oboe on him for months is a benefit, no doubt. Now, at the same time within the House Republican conference and among Trump's allies, he's not a strange face.

He was on the House Judiciary Committee during the first Trump impeachment where he played a central role in defending Trump, not just on legal technicalities, but actually defending the underlying activity that precipitated that impeachment. And he rose really, really fast in the House Republican Conference, too. That's a great point. Seven years.

Why do you think he rose so fast? He's clearly an operator. He's clearly good at figuring out what relationships he needs to build and then leveraging those in highly effective ways. He's been ahead of the Republican Study Committee, which is a really powerful post.

That would have helped him build lots of relationships with the conservative core of the Republican Conference. And then he was leadership's message in guru, which again, is a really important, although not super duper high profile role. And Carlos, is there a honeymoon period for Johnson? There will be.

I think it'll be brief. A lot will depend on what happens on November 17th, because the squeeze is coming. And by the way, a lot of these centrist members like Valadeo, who ended up voting for Johnson today, say that they have a commitment from him that there will not be a government shutdown. But of course, that's going to be met by resistance from the right flank who's going to make unreasonable demands as they have for over a decade now.

And Johnson's going to have to make a decision the way he handles that will depend how long the honeymoon period lasts. And Carlos, you've been around this time a long time. I'll hold you to this. Do you think there will be a government shutdown in a few weeks given what we've seen in the past few days?

Given what I've heard today and the commitments that the new speaker made, I don't think there will be a shutdown on the 17th. Or maybe a shutdown sometime next year. All right. How does this play for Democrats?

I mean, the ads almost write themselves. The fact that he supported the former president and represented him in basically saying that he was not an attempted coup when there was, when you actually look at what he does not believe in, whether we're talking about abortion, whether we're talking about gay rights, whether we're talking about immigration, the list goes on, this is what made sure that the Democrats did not experience a red wave during the midterm election. And so I think that the Democrats right now are basically thinking him. I do think that there's going to be a government shutdown, because everything that he doesn't believe in, Medicare and Social Security, is what the extreme right doesn't believe in, but people like Volley Day don't need Social Security in Medicare in order to secure their seats.

So it's going to be really, really tough. That's the only turn to you again. What role do you think Donald Trump played in his election? What we saw in the last three weeks is that Trump's support was necessary but not sufficient to be speaker of the House.

Trump clearly had the ability to veto potential speaker candidates, but he was not able to install his favored pick. Jim Jordan's defeat was clearly pretty embarrassing for Trump himself. That said, Mike Johnson and Donald Trump are going to fit together hand in glove, one of the most important things that Johnson did. And maybe one of the most consequential moves that Congress made, the House Republicans made in 2020, was being the leader, the very first name on an amicus brief, defending an absolutely bizarre Texas lawsuit that tried to get Pennsylvania and other states to have their electoral college votes thrown out.

That was in December of 2020. And Mike Johnson, he's a constitutional lawyer, he's somebody who's viewed as a smart person who knew what he was doing. He was the guy who corralled more than 100 House Republicans, including Kevin McCarthy, to get on board with trying to push the Supreme Court to intervene. That effort did not succeed, but there's no question that for Mike Johnson now, he's reaped political benefits within the Republican Conference.

I want to play something that Democratic caucus or P. Aguilar had to say shortly before the vote. Let's listen to that. This has been about one thing.

This has been about who can appease Donald Trump, House Republicans who put their names behind someone who has been called the most important architect of the electoral college objections. He's spearheaded the legal effort joined by more than 100 of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle in support of a dangerous and baseless lawsuit to overturn the results of the 2020 election. So Carlos, do you have a point? Yeah.

And look, this is an issue that played well for Democrats in the 2022 midterms, the candidates that were most associated with Trump's big lie, all lost in swing states. So Democrats know that this is important for swing voters and they want to continue reminding people of this. And even though Speaker Johnson has a different style, he's certainly not a Jim Jordan. He's not out there flamethrowing.

He does have a record and all of Republicans are going to own at least a portion of that record now you saw P. Aguilar trying to remind the country that even before what tends to be a pretty congenial event, which is this handing of the gavelin. And I think you saw Mike Johnson style there and the advantage is that I think some Republicans perceive in him. He, he was pretty vanilla in his remarks.

He was a gentleman to huck in Jeffrey so even though the style is different, the substance is very Maga and Democrats are going to take every opportunity to remind people. From that point, President Biden was asked about the news speaker actually just happened while he was delivering remarks at a news conference with the Australian Prime Minister. I want to play some of that. He was asked whether he was worried whether Speaker Johnson would work to overturn the 2024 election results.

So if you win reelection in 2024, are you worried that a Speaker Johnson would again attempt to overturn the election? No, because again, it would look just like I was not worried that the last guy be able to overturn the election. They have about 60 lawsuits. They've been all the way to Supreme Court and every time they lost, I understand the Constitution.

It's very interesting. What do you make of that response? Well, I think he's telegraphing that we need a strong Congress to make sure that they are doing the will of the people. Now, Johnson did he do that last time around?

He didn't. And I think that there is a lot of concern. I can share with you that there's plenty of groups working right now with local election officials that are completely bipartisan. One that I'm a part of is the National Election Crisis Task Force.

Michael Cherdoff sits at the table because we recognize at the end of the day, we need to make sure that our systems of governance and voting are something that the American people can trust. And so what the President is saying is that as long as the participation and there's the checks and balances, we have to make sure that we recognize that 2024, the voters have to have the final say. And we have to recognize and balances. You talk about the systems of governance in the United States and last several weeks our Congress was essentially paralyzed.

How does that shift things? Moving forward into 2024. Can we rely on these systems of government any more? They've certainly been taken out for a spin to see how well they hold up.

And even though this process was a lot more protracted and embarrassing for Republicans than typically, they did end up getting a speaker, low bar, but the prospects are low bar. The bigger challenge, of course, to your point is these actual electoral processes. And what we also know as in addition to what you're saying is that Trump and his allies have been the last two years working to install people at the grassroots ground for level in these electoral administrator roles, secretary of state roles, people with these technically historically nonpartisan jobs to handle election administration and at the same time, threats of violence against election personnel have scared out so much of the brain trust of the people who are at the front lines of making these elections work. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I want to get all your reaction to this.

There is a new poll that shows nearly a quarter of all Americans, a quarter of all Americans support political violence because things have gotten so far off track, true American patriots may have to resort to violence in order to save our country. Carlos, what do you make of that? Well, number one, I think every American has to look at themselves in America because a lot of people have contributed to this. It's easy to blame our leaders and that's what I'm going to do next, but everyone has to take ownership of this democracy and no one can be thinking that way our families gave left a country because of political violence, because differences couldn't be settled through debates, they were settled violently.

So that's unacceptable, but our leaders have to lead. And I think Mike Johnson has a big opportunity to look, his record, is there for everyone to see? I clearly disagree with a lot of it, but it does seem, and I did spend some time with him, that fundamentally he's a decent person. It seems that he does have a capacity to build.

He has that opportunity now, and our leaders have to lead and get us away from being in a situation where 28% of people think that violence is okay. And Marissa, was your reaction a quarter of America? I think one of it is because it's something that people feel after they saw the attempted killing of the Capitol. At the end of the day, what they were trying to do is that they were trying to reverse the majority of Americans vote.

And I think it's very real, and I think it's very important that people stand up to it. I think we need to have our leadership to stand up for it, but we also need good citizens to make sure that they are at the forefront in actually watching and being election watchers. It was one of these things that was really interesting is that in 2020, it was the Carter Center who usually does international observation of elections, they actually did it here at home. That says so much.

Thanks so much for your perspective. Marissa, Carlos, Gupello, and Betsy, thank you so much for joining us here at Meet the Press now. I really appreciate it. And coming up, new developments on the front lines of the Israel Hamas war, one of the very latest on hostage negotiations, the increasingly desperate civilian situation inside Gaza, and what we're learning about the absolutely horrific Hamas terror attacks on Israel.

That's next. Plus, one went down inside a New York courtroom this afternoon that had former President Trump taking the sand and then being fined $10,000 before storming out of the courtroom. We're watching Meet the Press now. Welcome back.

Turning out to the latest developments amid the escalating Israel Hamas war as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza grows even more dire and Israel prepares for a ground invasion. Today, the UN is warning that it may be forced to suspend its aid efforts as soon as tonight as much needed fuel in Gaza runs dry. According to the Palestinian Red Crescent, eight more trucks cross the Rafa border yesterday with food, water, and medicine, but without fuel, hospitals in Gaza will soon lose electricity and water plans will stop running amid this chaos the Biden administration has called for a humanitarian pause in Gaza, though not going so far as to call for a full ceasefire of hostilities, President Biden addressed the need to protect civilians in Gaza earlier today from the Rose Garden. Hamas is hiding behind Palestinian civilians and is despicable and not surprisingly cowardly as well.

This also puts an added burden on Israel while they go after Hamas. Israeli civilians power as difficult as to protect innocent civilians. Meanwhile, in an address to the nation, Prime Minister Netanyahu confirmed that Israel is preparing to launch its long-anticipated ground invasion of Gaza. We are showing health fire on Hamas.

We've already eliminated thousands of terrorists, and this is about the beginning. At the same time, we're getting prepared for the ground invasion. I want to make it very clear the timing of the operation of the IDF is unanimously determined by the cabinet that runs the war along with the chief, the general staff. Israel's government is also sharing more details about the horrific attack on October 7th.

Today, the IDF showed foreign reporters 45 minutes' worth of raw footage of the atrocities from that day, and amid it all, negotiations with Hamas continue in an attempt to secure the release of more than 200 hostages. I'm joined now by MVC-4 on correspondent Raf Sanchez in Ashot, Israel, and chief international correspondent Keir Simmons is in Doha. Raf, I want to start with you. What's the latest out of Israel?

Where does the potential ground and offensive stand right now? Well, Gabe, all night we have been hearing the thunder of Israeli airstrikes in Gaza a couple of miles south of where we are now, but as yet, the Israeli military, massed on the Gaza border, has not yet been given the order by Israel's political leadership to mount that ground invasion. Now, we know Israeli troops have been operating inside of Gaza, but these are small incursions, largely special forces. They're probing for Hamas weaknesses, they're looking for any signs of the hostages, but Gabe, there are a couple of clocks ticking here.

Israel does not have unlimited time in terms of mounting this ground offensive. The first is a diplomatic clock. Israel is very aware that every day, passing since the October 7th massacre, every day of rising civilian casualties inside Gaza, there is more and more pressure globally for a ceasefire. There's also an economic and military clock.

360,000 Israelis have been mobilized in reservist units. The Israeli military cannot stay on that level of military readiness forever without seriously alarm. And so the sense is, you heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu, that there is going to be a ground invasion, but as yet, he has not said one. And Ralph, President Biden has said that aid is not getting into Gaza fast enough.

Is there any more fuel getting it? There's not, Gabe, and the Israelis have been really clear that they are not going to allow fuel in. As far as they're concerned, fuel will be commandeered by Hamas. It will be used as part of Hamas's war effort.

But as you were saying, the UN, other humanitarian organizations are saying everything is collapsing inside Gaza without fuel. Fuel is the absolute lifeblood. You cannot keep the power plants on, and by extension, you cannot keep the lights on in the hospitals without fuel. You cannot deliver that limited humanitarian aid, which is getting in through the Rafa crossing without fuel.

So it is one of the major, major sticking points. The Israelis say they will not allow fuel, but there's growing pressure from the international community to avoid an even deeper humanitarian catastrophe to start allowing some of that fuel in. And, Ralph, you screen this 45 minute video of Hamas's brutality on October 7. It must have been incredibly difficult to watch.

Why did the Israeli government feel so strongly about sharing a video like this? I think the world's attention is increasingly shifting understandably to the humanitarian disaster inside of Gaza, to the growing death toll, especially among Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Just every hour, horrific images coming out. And this is the Israeli government, the Israeli military, trying to remind people what it was that sparked this war in the first place.

You're right. This is some of the most difficult footage I've ever seen. I watched those ISIS beheading videos back in 2014, 2015. Those were a couple minutes long.

This footage was 46 minutes long. And it was just one scene of horror after another. I can tell you gave the most difficult two and a half minutes out of those 46 was a sequence inside an Israeli kibbutz. You see a father and his two young sons run into a bomb shelter.

A Hamas terrorist follows them, throws a grenade into the shelter. The blast kills the father. It wounds the two little boys. They sort of carry each other back into the house.

And you can hear them talking to each other inside the house. One says, why am I still alive? And then he's tending to his wounded younger brother. He asks him, can you see out of this eye?

And the little boy says, no, because his eye has been blinded with shrapnel. And the whole time, there is a Hamas terrorist standing over them. And he casually opens the fridge and he gets out of bottle of coke. And he drinks from it as these two little boys are suffering.

So these are the images, the Israeli military, the Israeli government wants the world to see and they want the world to keep in mind, even as we're seeing these truly, truly awful scenes unfolding right now inside a Gaza. Yeah. Raff, why am I still alive? Hard to fathom that level of brutality.

Raff Sanchez, thank you. In southern Israel. I want to turn out a cure Simmons. He's covering the diplomatic situation here over in Doha.

And here, there are some more than 200 hostages in Gaza. What more do we know about the efforts to release them? Well, the efforts are focused on the civilian hostages. So that number of more than 200s, they aren't all civilian hostages.

It may be 50, 60, 70. We don't know the exact number. Now, President Biden today, just in the past few hours, saying that he is encouraging Benjamin Netanyahu to try to secure the release of those hostages before the ground invasion. So Raff was talking about a clock ticking.

There's another clock ticking there. And then here in Qatar, where they have been mediating these intense talks over the hostage, talking to these raids, talking to Hamas today, we saw for the first time publicly a senior official, the Prime Minister, saying that they are hopeful, that they will have a breakthrough and not putting a time on it, but suggesting that it could come at some point soon. There are still formidable challenges, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks that tells me that in order to free a larger number of hostages, there will need to be a pause in the bombing because Hamas needs to go and get those hostages from different places, and then they need to be brought out in a convoy. So you can imagine a convoy of hostages, including, we assume, American citizens, some children, some injured being brought out in a war zone.

That would be something the like of which we haven't seen in the recent history. And Keir, you know, we've been talking about President Biden's administration in the last couple of days, really going out of its way to thank the Qatari government for its role in this. It's been a surprise, an open line of communication with Hamas, but give us, from your reporting, any behind the scenes, how did Qatar become such a mediator in these talks in the first place? Well, they've had contact with Hamas for many, many years, and it's something that Qatari officials will tell you, the Israelis know all about, and the Americans know all about.

There's also been funding for Gaza, which has been known about by the Israelis and by the Americans. Hamas actually has an office here in Doha, here in Qatar, and that, and frankly, Qatar has been criticized for that, on many, many occasions, a suggestion by their neighbours and by Western powers that they're too close to Hamas. But what they're demonstrating now, what they would say they're demonstrating now, is the value of that, because they are able to be mediating these talks in these very difficult circumstances. I think once we get past all this, and clearly there's a long way to go, and things could go very, very badly still internationally, once we get past all this, there'll be another conversation about whether that's right, the right thing that Qatar is doing.

But certainly, right now, those talks appear to be invaluable. Keir Simmons, live for us in Doha, Keir, thank you so much. And up next, unprecedented urgency for aid groups in Gaza as fuel runs out. The healthcare system collapses, and the death toll keeps rising, with no relief in sight.

So speak, with an aid group on the front lines of this humanitarian catastrophe. You're watching, meet the press now, stay with us. And welcome back, the United Nations and the World Health Organization say the health system in Gaza is on the verge of collapse. Medical officials say the hospitals are down to the end of the fuel source.

The WHO reports that six hospitals in Gaza have already had to shut down. The UN tells NBC News that it will likely be forced to halt its operations in the area tonight due to a lack of fuel. I'm joined now by UNICEF spokesman Ricardo Pides, and Ricardo, thank you so much for joining us. And the UN and the WHO say hospitals in Gaza, as we just said, are out of fuel.

Is that what you're hearing at UNICEF? And what is the impact that that will have on medical care? Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

That's what we're hearing as well. And there's no argument now that this is increasingly becoming a children's crisis. For all the numbers we're seeing, the numbers of children killed, which surpassed the 2000s very recently disregarding the last attack yesterday, which was one of the most brutal so far. We're hearing stories from hospitals and medical facilities where neonatal care is completely compromised because of the lack of fuel and therefore electricity, which is so necessary to operate these facilities and the machines that are, for example, keeping babies and ventilators because they're so fragile at this point, and they are at the forefront of this.

They are suffering the biggest impacts and no doubt children are paying the highest price for this crisis. And Ricardo, Israel claims Hamas has fuel, that it's keeping from civilians in hospitals tweeting. These fuel tanks are inside Gaza that they contain more than 500,000 liters of fuel. Ask Hamas if you can have some.

Again, that's a tweet from Israeli officials. What have you heard? Has there been any verification of those claims? No, I haven't heard anything regarding that, and that's not something I can call it, but we know for sure that the fuel is over.

Our supplies, in addition to fuel, we're talking about water as well, food, medication for children. These supplies are also running out. We've got some in, as we all know very recently, but this is not enough. We need that corridor to stay open.

We need more supplies to get in. This is a matter of life and death for children. So now Ricardo, the Biden administration has said that one of the main concerns here about fuel is making sure that it does not fall into the hands of Hamas. How are A groups trying to make sure that that does not happen?

Well, we have monitoring mechanisms on the ground. This is not the first emergency we respond to, and this is a concern in many other places where UNICEF and other UN agencies are operating, but we do have mechanisms in place to ensure that our humanitarian aid, our supplies, go to the benefit shares that they go to children and that they do not end in other hands, and this is the case as well for this crisis. However, access and security are big concerns at the moment, and it's much harder for UNICEF to operate with its logistics on the ground if we're not safe and if we don't have access. And Ricardo, the White House has called for a humanitarian pause to the airstrikes, again, not a ceasefire, but a pause for humanitarian aid to get in.

What would that need to look like in order to make an impact on the situation on the ground? We need safety, first and foremost, our humanitarian workers need to access the impacted areas and be able to deliver for children and families in a safe manner. But also, this corridor needs to remain open. This pause needs to continue in order for this impact to actually be significant and the right supplies arrive at the right time into the right people.

And Ricardo, we've seen concerns about this growing crisis from all over the world. Since you're here right now, I wanted to give you the opportunity. How do people help? Well, I'm speaking to an American audience, so please go on UNICEF USA and donate, we're accepting donations for this crisis.

And they're very welcome and we're very grateful if you can do that. Ricardo Pierce, spokesman for UNICEF. Ricardo, thank you so much for your time. And after the break, US forces head to the mid-east as Israel prepares for a ground invasion of Gaza and Iran-backed militants target US troops in a series of drone attacks.

I'll talk to our retired US Army General about the perilous path ahead amid the escalating conflict. You're watching. Meet the president. Welcome back.

As the world prepares for the Israeli military to launch its ground offensive into Gaza, the White House and Congress are both working to bolster US support Israel's defense. The defense official tells NBC News that the US is currently working on planning to support the provision of Iron Dome air defense systems to Israel and follows the White House's supplemental request to Congress that they've approved will provide more than $14 billion to Israel. Joining me now is retired General David Petraeus, former CIA director and former commander of US Central Command. He's also the author of the new book Conflict, the Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine.

General, thank you so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now. You know, the White House and President Biden over the last few days has really been urging the Israelis not to make the same mistakes that the US may after 9-11. You, of course, oversaw coalition forces in Iraq. Do you agree with the president?

I do. We made mistakes in not having sufficiently planned the post-conflict phase. I was a two-star general at that time. Actually, it wasn't until 2007, 2008 that I commanded the surge as a four-star.

But clearly, we got to Baghdad. We toppled the regime and our plans were not sufficient. And when we then compounded that situation by taking two policy decisions that were very, very destructive, frankly, that was to fire the Iraqi military without telling what their future was and de-vapification without an agreed reconciliation process, which put tens of thousands of bureaucrats we needed to run Iraq into retirement, essentially fire them. So clearly, he's urging them to plan what will happen the day after the so-called post-conflict phase.

I tend to agree that it's inescapable that Hamas has to be destroyed. These are irreconcilable. They are extremists. They are terrorists.

They can't be negotiated with their founding documents. Call for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews. It's going to be a very, very tough campaign. And when it's done, and it will take a long time to do it, it'll be costly.

It'll be destructive. But when it is done, there needs to be a plan for what comes next. And there also should be a vision announced in advance of what life will be like for the Palestinians in Gaza and also in the West Bank after the destruction of Hamas and their terrorist partners, the Islamic Jihad. In general, besides the long-term plans, there's also the short-term plans.

We keep hearing about this expected ground offensive. How would it compare to what the U.S. saw in Iraq? Is the IDF ready for that type of ground incursion into such a difficult place like Gaza?

How does it compare to what the U.S. saw in Iraq? It's vastly more difficult than anything we did in Iraq. And we cleared major cities during our time, especially during the surge cities, like Ramadi, Fallujah, again, for the third and final time parts of Baghdad.

Most of the city of over a million people in Mosul had to be re-cleared. And of course, when it became the capital of the Islamic State's caliphate in northern Iraq, this is much, much more difficult. Of course, an enemy that doesn't wear uniforms, that uses civilians, has shields that are 212 hostages that they use as well, 300 miles, the so-called Gaza City Metro, that they have developed their individuals that will blow themselves up to take its release with them and provides explosive devices. And the requirement, essentially, to clear every building, every floor, room, cellar, tunnel, and then to leave forces behind so that the enemy cannot re-infiltrate.

You just have to do that progressively. I see no alternative. You can't do this with commando raids or special operations, targeted operations. This is a very large force that is going to have to be rooted out.

And again, I just see no alternative unless it's incomplete, in which case they will come back, just as been the case after each time the Israel has carried out the so-called mowing of the grass option. That's not an option here, but they need to understand that if the Palestinian people reject Hamas over time, at least don't help them during this period of these clearance operations, as challenging as they will be, that life will be better for them, and that what comes after post-conflict phase will see to their needs the restoration of basic services and the rest of that, and ensuring that Hamas and Islamic Jihad cannot reconstitute. Well, General, I don't want to press any on that point. Is it possible to root out Hamas here?

And also, what are the optics here for Israel? How can it continue to maintain international support? So there's two questions. Is it possible to root out Hamas?

And then how does Israel maintain that support internationally? I think it is possible, but it remains to be seen. Again, there's nothing more difficult than urban operations, and this is the most challenging urban operation imaginable. You mentioned the book conflict, my co-author, Andrew Robertson.

I thought back through all those cases, there's no more challenging context than this one in this particular scenario. But Israel's carrying out the shaping operations right now. Yes, there's going to be destruction. There is already, yes, there will be innocent civilian lives, and they need to be laying at the feet of Hamas.

Hamas brought this on with the brutal, horrific, unspeakable acts of 10-7, and they are to blame for what is now being inflicted on Hamas and tragically on the Palestinian people as well. And General briefly, earlier this week, the French President Macron, he suggested that the international coalition fighting ISIS should be expanded to include the fight against Hamas. Is that something that should be considered? I don't think the Israelis want that.

I think the Israelis want to deal with themselves. They understand how to do this. They understand the challenge. They do need to carry out further setting of the conditions, operations posturing their forces, positioning them.

But I think they want to do this themselves. They don't need to involve others. This is their operation. The challenge is really the post-conflict phase.

Who will take that over? Will Israel be forced to reoccupy Gaza? Could this now be the time that the Arab community is that expressed concern for the Palestinians step up and contribute in a meaningful way to this? Noting that, again, the challenge for the administration that follows is not just going to be handing out humanitarian assistance and restoring basic services.

They are going to have to keep Hamas and Islamic Jihad remnants from reconstituting. General David Patreus, thank you so much for joining us here. I mean, the president, we appreciate it. Thank you.

Instead of how former President Trump ended up in the witness today in his New York civil fraud trial. You're watching. Meet the press now. And welcome back, because it's just that kind of day.

We're following some more breaking news on Capitol Hill, where Democratic Congressman Jamal Bowman has been charged with a criminal misdemeanor for allegedly falsely pulling a firearm at the Capitol. Bowman pulled the alarm in the Capitol office, building last month, raising suspicions that he was trying to delay a vote on a spending bill to avert a government shutdown. He later claimed it was an honest mistake. The Capitol police said their investigation suggested he did it on purpose.

Bowman is scheduled to appear in DC Superior Court tomorrow. And turning out for the Trump trial. So it was a dramatic day in New York City's civil court this afternoon. And not just because former President Trump's former fixer Michael Cohen testified against him for a second straight day.

In a shocking moment, former President Trump was actually called to stand himself to explain the disparaging comments he made in a hallway, which the judge ruled had violated a gag order barring Mr. Trump from making personal tax against court and staff. Here are those hallway comments earlier today. This judge is a Republican judge with a person who's required to take a month's act, but perhaps even more partisan than he is.

So we are going very well. The facts are sitting pretty loud. He's a totally discredited witness. And you haven't seen anything yet.

This goes up a whole time. He's totally discredited with this. The former president tried to convince the judge that he was talking about Michael Cohen, not court staff, but the judge was not buying it. And he fined the former president $10,000.

And then, sure time later, the former president apparently stormed out of the courtroom. So outside the courthouse, as M.E.C.'s Dasha Burns, she joins us now live. Tasha, what in the world happens today? Yeah, okay, buckle in for a second while we'll walk you through this because it certainly is not the courtroom tape that we were expecting.

So you heard those comments. The line in question was, the person that he was referencing sitting alongside the judge. At first, the judge asked Trump's lawyers. Who was he referring to?

The lawyer said, Michael Cohen. The judge said, okay, let me consider that. Then a short while later, he calls Trump to take the stand. Now, Trump only took the stand for about a minute or so.

And the judge asked him, who were you referring to? Trump says, Michael Cohen. But he still, again, said, you know, that clerk though, she is partisan against me. The clerk he's talking about, Gabe, is, if you remember, the very same clerk that he posted and disparaging post about that initially got the gag order placed on him.

This is a second time that he's pushing that same button on this judge. And it seemed like the judge simply said he had enough. He said he found Trump not credible on the stand and said he was finding him at $10,000. Then the cross examination continued after the judge said, look, don't do it again next time it'll be worse.

The cross continued. Then Trump's attorney asked for a directed verdict in the case, which essentially means he asked the judge to dismiss the case because of something that Michael Cohen said. The judge very quickly denied that. Then you saw Trump get frustrated, stand up, and storm out of the courtroom.

There were audible gasps. His Secret Service agents chased him, ran after him, chasing him out of the courtroom. And he simply told reporters outside the courtroom that this trial should be over. He then went back into court a little bit later, had a conversation with the judge.

We don't know what was said in that room, but certainly an unexpected day full of twists and turns here, Gabe. Oh, gosh, I've even seen the Secret Service agents so quickly, how does this impact the rest of the trial, you think? Well, it'll be interesting to see what this means about Trump's behavior. If he does come back to this court, this judge seems like he is absolutely done with the nonsense and with the games.

If Trump, this is two strikes now, right? If there's a strike three, the question is, what happens next? Will it be another fine? Or might he take this a step further?

Dasha Burns, live for us in Laura Manhattan. Dasha, thank you so much. Rare, not just for a defendant to take a stand in this manner, but not every day happens to be former president. Thank you all for being with us here at this hour.

Kristin is back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. For now, I'm Gabe Gutierrez, and NBC News Now coverage continues with Hallie Jackson, right now. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of The Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest.

The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now. But getting there, it wasn't simple. Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood Young, and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook.

The drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you'll listen and follow The Drink wherever you get your podcasts.