Meet the Press NOW — October 6

If it's Friday, it's the time for choosing for House Republicans. Donald Trump makes his endorsement in the race for speaker as Republicans warn of a circus-like atmosphere on Capitol Hill next week. Plus, President Biden tries to seize on soaring job numbers and rising wages as the U.S. economy shows its resiliency, despite persistent inflation, labor strikes, and dysfunction in Washington.

And my revealing conversation with swing voters in a battleground state as they sound off on issues that could determine the fate of American politics and the historic levels of discontent. Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker reporting in Boston, the birthplace of the American Revolution, and perhaps a fitting backdrop to close out a week that has been dominated by a political rebellion of sorts with the House of Representatives revolting against its own leadership and now bracing for a brutal fight inside a divided Republican conference in the race to replace ousted Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Former President Donald Trump has now entered the fray.

He's throwing his support behind Ohio's Jim Jordan, a congressman once considered a bomb thrower on the fringe of the conference. Jordan hasn't changed, but the party has so much so that he's now arguably part of the mainstream in the House. Jordan is facing House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, who is begging on his institutional record inside an increasingly conservative Republican conference. Take a listen.

The problems that we have internally, they don't go away with a new speaker. But the real question the members have is how do we get things back on track? And the reason I've been able to build such a strong base of support over these last few days that's been growing is that I've got a long proven record and somebody who knows how to unify Republicans to fight on the battles that matter for the families who gave us this majority. Now, in a sign of some of the drama to come, 45 House Republicans signed a letter venting their frustration about the power wielded by hardliners inside their conference, saying they were, quote, ashamed and embarrassed by what happened this week after just one of those hardliners was able to trigger a vote to oust their speaker.

With House Republicans sorely divided and dysfunction gripping Washington, I sat down with a group of swing voters in battleground Pennsylvania for a conversation about the state of our politics, the discontent with the party and the fallout from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's ouster this week. Here's some of that fascinating conversation. Do you feel like there's a leadership vacuum right now? Absolutely.

I do. Across the board. Across the board. I think that it's chaotic.

Samantha, what was your reaction to seeing Speaker McCarthy lose his gavel? What was the message you took from that? I think it was, again, just like kind of everyone was saying, like, chaotic. I didn't think that was something that would happen.

Thought there would be a change at the last second. And it, again, shows a message of this is there's just so much going on that it's not very unstable. Michael, what occurred to you when you saw that? Man, I felt bad for McCarthy.

I felt bad for him. You know, I think that it's throwing a lot of discord in the Republican Party. And even though I'm a registered Democrat, it's important to me that both sides can have some strength because too much of anything is just not good. What do you make, Scott, of the chaos that we witnessed in Congress?

I mean, watching it go down in real time was wildly entertaining, but also at the same point, it was depressing. And I totally agree with Michael that I think this is going to sow more division because whomever comes in and takes the role is going to be kowtowing to the seven, eight, sorry, eight who voted against McCarthy. And I don't see a way that they're going to strike a compromise on key items like budget continuing resolution. It was such a great conversation.

We thank all of those voters in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. NBC's Garrett Hake is on Capitol Hill with the very latest. He hasn't slept all week long, but he is joining us. Really appreciate it, Garrett.

Look, I spoke with Congressman Gonzalez yesterday and he said his prediction is it's just going to be a circus on Capitol Hill next week. Based on your reporting, is that how things are shaking out? Well, I think there's a real desire to keep the circus under the tent, if you want to embrace that metaphor here, by Republicans who don't want to have all this play out in public. That's why you saw today a candidate forum on Fox News sort of get promoted and then canceled.

Why I think you're hearing from a lot of members, including Jordan, by the way, the discussion about the idea that they want to make sure that this process of picking a speaker is mostly handled in the closed door meetings they're going to have on Tuesday and Wednesday and not left up to chance when they bring it to the House floor, whenever that may be. I think there's a widespread understanding within the Republican Party that they cannot have another 15 vote debacle on the floor. They need to at least appear united when it comes time to have the formal vote, even if it's a nasty, messy process behind closed doors to get there. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of pressure for exactly what you are talking about, Garrett.

I want to now ask you to put both of your hats on, your congressional correspondent and also your Trump hat. We know that former President Trump publicly endorsed Jim Jordan, and I just want to get your sense of why you think he did that and what you think the impact is going to be broadly. Well, let me start by saying I don't think the idea that Trump ever wanted to be speaker or was even seriously entertaining that idea was all of that serious. Trump, as a general political figure, as a political matter, wants to be in the center of every conversation and especially every conversation about the future of the Republican Party and who's leading the Republican Party.

And by anointing probably his closest ally in the House consistently ally in the House to his chosen one as speaker designate or speaker nominee, he's able to do that. He's able to insert himself very closely into the conversation and make sure that he's totally aligned with the next speaker. I mean, it's important to note that Kevin McCarthy, for all that he did for Donald Trump, he never officially endorsed him in this third run for president. He was very careful to walk up to that line, but not cross it.

There's no scenario, none, in which the next speaker of the House is not someone who has endorsed Donald Trump. Steve Scalise and Jim Jordan both have. And I suspect if there's some other candidate who arises out of this and neither of those two men can get the necessary support, that person will have to kiss the ring and will be a Trump endorsing member as well. Yeah, I mean, it's just been so fascinating to see how the former president has hovered over everything that we have been witnessing on Capitol Hill.

Garrett, as you've been reporting on, obviously, they're aiming to hold a vote potentially on Wednesday for the next speaker. But there's a lot of skepticism that Republicans are going to be able to meet that deadline and that timeline. What are you hearing in terms of when we may actually see a new speaker and whether anyone would agree to that one vote motion to vacate, which was the undoing of Kevin McCarthy? Well, let me add one other thought on Trump because it slipped out of my brain before I was able to get it into this conversation, too.

Think about the difference between January when Kevin McCarthy was elected and now in terms of Donald Trump's strength. In January, Ron DeSantis had just been reelected. Trump was back in the race, but he wasn't as strong. His numbers were much lower.

It wasn't until April this year with that first indictment that Trump really broke out from the rest of the pack and became the dominant figure in the presidential race. The sort of prohibitive favorite to be the next Republican presidential nominee. So his power and his authority and his influence over this party has dramatically increased from January when he was kind of a silent, if wishy washy endorser of Kevin McCarthy. Put that thought out there on the timing of this, Kristen.

I think Wednesday is very optimistic to have this settled again. These Republicans want to make sure all of these issues are handled behind closed doors before they bring it to the floor, including the question of what rules the next speaker will live under. There are too many more institutionalist members who don't want to risk the possibility that this group or any other rump group of a handful of Republicans could overthrow the next speaker. They want to kind of close the door behind them on this chapter.

And I think that'll all be part of what gets worked out in the middle part of this week. All right. Fascinating stuff. Great reporting and appreciate the additional context on Trump.

Thank you, Garrett Haake. And joining me now is Tennessee Republican Congressman Tim Burchett. He is one of the eight Republicans who voted to oust Speaker McCarthy earlier this week. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me.

I really appreciate it. Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much for having me. So just to hit that point home, you were one of eight Republicans who voted to kick out Speaker McCarthy.

And you did that without a clear replacement plan in mind. I guess the question is, why did you go forward without a backup plan? Well, first of all, the plan we're according to the rules, the House rules that then Speaker Kevin McCarthy had voted for. So I sort of stand back a little bit when people start talking about it's how to control it was.

We followed the rules to a T and those were actually the rules in place since the 20s that Speaker Pelosi actually took out when she saw that her numbers were very close. And she, you know, one thing you say about Speaker Pelosi, she knows trying to work something out. When you go over to the Senate and say, we're gonna reduce the rate of growth by 1%, and that's our deal, well, that doesn't work very well. I raised the speed limit in Tennessee, and I always use this example.

I asked for 85, knowing that I would take 70. So when I was in the legislature. So I think you go in, you have to have kind of a business-like mind, and you have to go in. You don't ask for the bottom level, you have to ask for the bottom plus.

And I'm afraid in the past too, we spent a lot of time on the news talking about, talking to, talking at the people in the other party. We needed to be out there talking to them. Well, and you are talking about negotiating. And I guess it seems like McCarthy is being punished for negotiating with Democrats.

And I've been talking to Republicans who say every day that you haven't named a speaker is a day that you're not working on getting your stated goal, which is spending cuts. So do you think you will have a new speaker named by the end of next week? And if not, should we expect there to be yet another government shutdown? No, we're gonna get it.

We're gonna get it worked out. It'll be in one ballot. The reason we had 15 ballots was Kevin McCarthy wanted to go to the floor, and he wanted to, I guess, make the national spotlight on those folks. And what he didn't realize was, there are folks back home who are saying, hey, we don't like the way things are going.

We want the rules in place. We want single issue bills. We want some fiscal restraint. And those are the rules that we put in place.

And those are the rules that he did not follow. And that's why he is no longer Speaker. Okay, well, you heard it here. You are predicting that you will, in fact, have a speaker in one vote.

We'll have to see if that comes to pass. Congressman Tim Burchett, thank you so much for sharing your perspective with us. We really appreciate it. And I've got more from Boston Silicon, but my colleague Gabe, thank you.

My colleague Gabe Gutierrez is going to pick up after the break from Washington. He will have some breaking news on the UAW strike. We'll take you live on the ground in Ohio with those developments. Plus, a soaring jobs number and struggling job approval.

What today's employment report means for voters and the White House. You're watching Meet the Press Now. Do stay with us. Welcome back to Meet the Press Now.

I'm Gabe Gutierrez in Washington. And we're following some breaking news on the UAW strike. The auto workers are, excuse the pun, pumping the brakes on plans to expand their strike after they say GM agreed to bring battery plants into the main union contract. This is the first week the union has not expanded its strike since it began nearly a month ago.

NBC's Jesse Kirsch joins me now from Ohio. Jesse, what's the significance of this? Yes, so Gabe, two things to point out from today. As you mentioned, the union did not expand its strike at a scene that is making significant progress or is making progress, I should say, with all three of the big three automakers.

That's the first time since the strike began that we have seen all three companies avoid a strike expansion. So that bodes well for negotiations across the board. The other headline coming out of this situation today is the union is claiming that General Motors has put in writing that it will include battery manufacturing, electric battery manufacturing for EV vehicles in its national master agreement. GM in a statement it put out a short time ago to us is not confirming or denying, and I pressed for a further answer on that they are continuing to not give us an answer either way on if this is true.

But if it is, as the union is claiming that the battery plant manufacturing will be part of a national agreement moving forward, that would potentially mean very much forward-looking that workers in facilities that aren't even in existence yet could wind up being a part of a union that has been concerned about the loss of jobs as a transition to EV vehicles may mean fewer jobs are needed to produce such vehicles. So bottom line, this is potentially giving the union some broader job security and the potential to have leverage for years to come as the industry transitions toward electric vehicles, which have been a concerning topic underpinning these negotiations. And this could potentially put pressure on the other two automakers, Stellantis and Ford, to make similar concessions. We already know that Ford's CEO had said just last week that he believes the union had been holding up an agreement with the EV battery plants.

So this is something that is very much a topic front of mind for the union. And it appears they have gotten, made some significant progress with at least one of the companies. And that could really up the pressure and change the landscape of these negotiations and for the union's leverage well beyond even just this upcoming contract game. Jesse Kirsch live for us in Ohio.

Jesse, thank you. And news of the potential progress towards potential into the UAW strike comes as the White House got some other good economic news today. The Labor Department reported that 336,000 new jobs were created last month, more than twice the number economists predicted. And the sizable boost from the number of jobs created in August.

Wages also ticked up and the unemployment rate remained below 4%. This afternoon at the White House, President Biden touted the good numbers, claiming they were a result of his so-called Bidenomics policies. Even though polls show voters do not approve of the president's handling of the economy. Here's what President Biden told reporters today about that disconnect.

I think that the American people are smart as hell and know what their interests are. I think they know they're better off financially than they were before. It's a fact. And all that data, all that polling stuff shows they think they're more positive about the economy than they've been, more positive about their jobs, et cetera.

NBC's business and data reporter Brian Chung joins me now. And Brian, what is the big picture here about the state of the economy based on what we learned this morning? Yeah, the big picture is that the labor market still looks really healthy because again, economists expected 170,000 jobs to have been added in the month of September. What do we get?

Almost double that. Now, where did economists get it wrong? It was specifically in leisure and hospitality where we saw bars and restaurants add over 90,000 jobs in the month. So very interesting to see on that front.

People are underestimating just how much people continue to go out and dine as opposed to cooking inside. But broadly speaking, again, the Federal Reserve has been raising interest rates over the last year and a half or so to deliberately slow this economy. And they expected along the way that could lead to higher unemployment, higher borrowing costs, maybe pushes employers to lay off people even. Apparently that's not happening even this deep into the Federal Reserve's hiking cycle, which again is good news for people looking for jobs, but a bit of a conundrum for economists that said this is not usually how we expect things to play out, Gabe.

And Brian, you touched on this a little bit, but what sectors saw the most job growth? Yeah, what we saw in leisure and hospitality, again, that's the government's accounting for bars and restaurants. We also saw it in government. We saw it in healthcare.

So these are a lot of the drive. These are a lot of the gains that are being driven by these specific sectors because even government workers, what was interesting was that in these jobs reports, the government also revisits and revises previous months. And they said, look, in August and July, we also underestimated how many jobs were added in many cases because of government jobs as well. So again, is that the theme that kind of run through the end of this year as well?

We'll have to see. But at 3.8%, that unemployment rate game is essentially near over 50-year lows. Very interesting to see. Brian Chung with some positive news there.

Brian, thank you. And turning now to yet another major issue for the White House, the border, as the administration faces scrutiny from fellow Democrats over a decision to allow new construction on the border wall. Yesterday, DHS announced that the Biden administration was waiving 26 federal laws to allow construction of nearly 20 miles of border wall in Texas, calling that fence necessary to prevent unlawful entries into the United States. Joining me now from Starr County, Texas, near the southern border, is NBC's Morgan Chaffee.

And Morgan, what has been the reaction there in those border communities? Yeah, Gabe, the reviews have been decidedly mixed here in the Rio Grande Valley. And it's very interesting because opponents of this new extension of border wall are feeling a bit of déjà vu. They had this fight against the wall back in 2019 when it was initially proposed by the then Trump administration.

That money allocated by Congress to go specifically to this stretch of wall. Then President Biden's elected. He promises in his campaign that not another foot of wall would be built. And for all intents and purposes, they thought their fight had relatively died until recently when this new announcement came from the administration saying that it would have to use the money appropriated back in 2019 to build this section of wall, 20 miles, as you mentioned, in Starr County in order to deal with the influx of migrants crossing the border.

But what's so interesting, Gabe, is while we hear the fact that the Biden administration, the president himself saying that essentially his hands were tied on this, the money was already allocated. It was his administration who also waived 26 federal laws in order to make this additional construction happen. I had a chance to speak to the county judge of Starr Where are the leaders? On the Democratic side.

Michael, do you know who you would vote for if there were a rematch between President Biden and former President Trump? I feel pretty confident that I know. I am confident that I know. You go for President Biden?

Yeah, sort of like I'll mention, it would not be a happy or proud vote. It would be the lesser of the two evils. Scott, do you know who you would vote for? If Biden versus Trump, yes, I'd vote for Biden, for sure.

And would you do so with enthusiasm? No. Why? Like Alex, your concerns about age.

It's just a fact. I think he is still capable. He seems to have the vitality to continue to do the job well, but at 88 years old, just the inherent risk. I just feel that Trump has disqualified himself from office because of his behavior from the election through January 6th onward and never will vote for him.

And part of what was so revealing about that conversation was just how frank and honest those voters all were. And I thought it was striking the fact that you had two of them say, yes, they're undecided. That is really significant. It raises all sorts of questions about how seriously they may take a third-party candidate, for example, Gabe.

So that was really striking. And here was another part of the conversation that really stood out to me. I asked them, given their dissatisfaction with this potential rematch, and we underscored that word potential, how many of them would think about sitting out on election day? Here's what they had to say.

Is there any chance that any of you sit home on election day? There is a chance. Yeah. What will make you come out to vote?

What will you decide exactly? I mean, honestly, I feel if it's Biden versus Trump, I don't know if there's anything that could make me come out and vote that day, which I know is really upsetting because it's something that, you know, is a privilege for me to have. I just don't want to have my vote count in a way of both people I don't really support wholeheartedly is really what it comes down to. I don't think I would.

Is there any chance you would stay at home on election day? No. I love American democracy too much that Biden and Trump, if it's a Biden and Trump race, then I would vote for Biden even if he was dead. I'm a Republican.

No chance I'd stay home. I'd never miss an election day. I certainly would not ever stay home. Any chance you'd stay at home?

No way. My daughter needs to see me going there. I would leave her every time so that she knows to do it when it's her time. So there you have that dad saying no chance that he would sit at home.

He wants to be a model for his daughter, Gabe. So it was just a really revealing conversation, but you could hear the frustration that they have right now with this current political climate, Gabe. Yeah, Kristen, the disappointment. I heard the lesser of two evils, and that seems to sum it up perfectly.

But, you know, they were so blunt and yet so unenthusiastic. What did you really see about the big picture here? What were your big takeaways? And what does it mean for the future of our politics?

A couple of big takeaways, Gabe. One, these voters, even though they range the political spectrum and they're all swing voters, they shared a couple of things. One, the economy was really at the top of their list of issues that mattered to them. They shared this idea that they could see in the numbers that things were getting better, but they weren't necessarily feeling that within their households.

That is a story that we are hearing all across the country. And then they had this very big focus on the issue of democracy. They are all concerned about the future of this country's democracy. And then broadly speaking, taking a step back even further, they say they feel like there's a leadership void in this country on both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue.

They want to see strong, robust leadership. They are so disappointed, as we talked about earlier, with the chaos that evolved in the House. And they also feel like there's just this strong sense of leadership missing writ large. And it was just fascinating because they obviously come from different backgrounds and they have different viewpoints, but they share that dissatisfaction across the board.

So I think that's just a very big takeaway. We see that in our polls when we see voters, that enthusiasm gap. And they really express that with this very blunt, candid conversation that I had with those fantastic voters in Bucks County. The one and only Kristen Welker.

What a fascinating conversation. Safe travels to D.C. and we'll see you on Sunday for Meet the Press. And still ahead.

Thanks, Gabe. So good to be with you. Great to see you, Kristen. Still ahead, we've got more from voters as our NBC News campaign embats were out there every day on the trail talking to voters.

And you just heard there what some Republican voters had to say about the historic move to oust Congressman Kevin McCarthy from his role as Speaker of the House. And what they're watching for as the fight for the new Speaker gets underway. And to talk through what we just heard in the current chaos on Capitol Hill, I'm joined by the panel. Simone Sanders Townsend, host of Simone on MSNBC and former senior advisor to Vice President Kamala Harris.

Republican strategist Jim Dornan and Betsy Woodruff Swan, national correspondent at Politico and an NBC News contributor. Thank you all so much for joining me here on the panel. So, Simone, I want to start with you. You just heard those Republican voters.

What do you make of it? They wanted adults in the room. What do you make of this chaos on the Hill? I mean, this thing, I hope that someone can do better than Kevin.

He works with the Democrats and they oust him. That's ridiculous. People saying, look, I think that you juxtapose what real people, as I like to say, real people out there in America are saying with the realities on Capitol Hill. And it seems like these are two different worlds.

I do think that in general, Democrats, Republicans, independents in the real world, they would like Congress to work for them and do their jobs. The problem is that this particular Congress, this particular House caucus on the Republican side, the minority of very loud voices have captured the power, if you will. And so the only way I think out of this in a place where the Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boeberts and the Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world do not have outsized influence is, in fact, to snuff out their influence by working with the Democrats. I do not think, though, that in this current climate, that is something that any potential next Republican Speaker would actually be willing to do.

No bipartisanship? Surely you jest. No, Jim, tell me, you know, is it realistic to think of bipartisanship in this current Congress and this chaos on the Hill? How damaging is it to the Republican brand going forward?

Well, if the Republicans are going to allow 8 out of 218 or 221 to control their conference, then they deserve to lose. And I think Matt Gaetz just basically guaranteed that the Democrats will be taking control of the House next cycle. And I'm, as a Republican, it's embarrassing to watch this. I mean, Kevin McCarthy didn't do anything wrong.

He's just trying to keep the government running. That's basic tenet of governing. And the fact that he got thrown out for that is ridiculous. And, Betsy, picking up on that point, what does it say about the current Republican Party that Jim Jordan is now the leading candidate for Speaker?

Would this have happened several years ago, 5, 10 years ago, you know, what world are we living in right now? No question that this is a dramatic departure from the way the GOP was very, very, very recently. The best way, I think, the most important way to make sense of why things are the way they are on Capitol Hill right now is to look back to ancient history of 2021, when Republicans were supposed to have a wave election in the 2022 midterms. They were supposed to scoop up tons and tons of Dem seats.

There were Republican operatives talking about a 20-seat majority, a 30, 40-seat majority. And there was very much a consensus among the pundit class that the midterms were going to be awesome for Republicans based on just the empirical data. But then Trump and his allies decided to spend those two years leading up to the midterms saying, hey, elections don't count. Don't vote.

You can't be trusted when you put your vote in. Dominion, Dominion, let's review 2020, Arglebargle. And shockingly, that was not a successful midterm election message. And as a result, Republicans have a microscopic House majority that has rendered the Republican conference totally ungovernable.

I think next week we're going to see revenge of the moderates. I don't think it's going to be pretty. And I think the tensions that exist right now are not magically going to go away because of a closed-door meeting. So what do you make about Trump there?

For a short period of time, for like two seconds, there was this idea he could swoop in if it was even legally possible to be Speaker of the House. That went away. He endorsed Jim Jordan. How much power does he still wield over this Republican conference?

It's still a ton. There's no question. But I think it's less than he would have liked to. Trump certainly feels like he has an obligation to pretend he's running for any seat of office that anybody ever talks about him running for, which is why when he announced Yeah, just a bit.

It's challenging. It's frustrating. It's challenging because when the economy is good, when you get a pay raise, you don't think, Thank you, President Biden. When the economy is bad and when you're struggling, you start looking for somebody to hold responsible for those challenges.

And just in terms of human nature, the gravitational pull of a bad economy is always going to be what could people in power have done differently to make my life better. And I agree with you. I think that he's getting extended bad feelings towards the economy. He's still being blamed for inflation.

The jobs reports the last two times have been pretty darn good. But I just think that it's an extension of where it was six months ago. And how people feel. How people feel at the end of the day is how people feel.

And while GDP is up, right, wages are a little bit up. This jobs report, I think they were stagnant, to be honest. A lot of people still feel like they are struggling. And that feeling is what dictates a lot of what people say when the pollsters call them or when they're asked in a diner by our good NBC embeds.

All right. Simone, Jim, and Betsy, thanks so much for joining us here on the panel. And next, a major redistricting ruling that could make history in Alabama and change the power dynamics in Washington. You're watching Meet the Press Now.

Stay with us. Welcome back. A long legal battle over congressional maps in Alabama came to a conclusion yesterday as a federal court ordered the state to adopt a new map. That new map set to go into effect ahead of the 2024 election.

And it creates a second district in the state where black voters represent a substantial portion of the electorate. Black voters in Alabama have long been gerrymandered into a single district, the only Democratic-led district in the state. I'm joined now by Marina Jenkins, executive director for the National Democratic Redistricting Committee. Marina, thanks so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now.

Bring us up to speed and break down what this new congressional map means for Alabama and national politics ahead of 2024. Because this has big implications. It's incredibly exciting. We're so proud to have been part of this effort and this fight.

The court's choice of a map yesterday means that going forward for the rest of this decade, Alabama voters, black Alabama voters, will have, as you noted, the opportunity to elect a candidate of their choice in two districts instead of just one. And so in Alabama, as across the country, what this means is that the representation of that state will actually more accurately reflect the people themselves. And put it in the historical context for us. How would this affect the, how big of a win is this for black residents in Alabama?

It's huge. The state of Alabama has never expanded the franchise through redistricting to black voters without a court order. The first one came in 1992, and the second one, we just got the new map yesterday. And this is a win that you've been fighting for, right?

This is, how long, you know, how long have you been fighting for this? Our organization was founded in 2017, and this was one of the first projects that we started working on. We filed a lawsuit in 2018. It was a bit late in the cycle to achieve a new map at that point in time.

And when the new map was drawn in 2021, keeping the status quo, the dilution of black voters, we filed another lawsuit and found quick success. The Supreme Court unfortunately stopped us in our tracks last year. So it's been a really exciting summer. And explain that.

This was not allowed to go into effect, obviously, for 2022. That's right. And how big of a surprise was this overall? You know, it was a surprise not because there was any question about whether or not we were right on the law with the facts that we had in Alabama.

The surprise was that the Supreme Court actually applied the law as it exists, you know, and as it has existed for decades, which is something, you know, now is a little bit uncertain with this court. How does the legal fight around this, you know, play out nationwide? And talk to me about where we are in this country when it comes to redistricting and gerrymandering and how that has led to the moment where we are right now with the, you know, chaos on Capitol Hill. This has been a long time coming, really, for decades, right?

Absolutely. We're in an era of perpetual redistricting. We haven't had the same congressional national map since 2014. Following the extreme gerrymanders of the 2011 redistricting cycle, this has had to be a real battle.

And so these fights have been ongoing. There are still many cases ongoing. So I think the national map is still set to change ahead of 24. What do you think is the next biggest fight for you?

There are cases ongoing in Louisiana, in Georgia, in Florida, in Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Kentucky, just to name a few. Just to name a few. So you have a lot on your hands. And what is next, though, in terms of, you know, what's the next big fight that you expect to take on?

I think we'll see a decision from the trial court in Georgia by the end of this month. The remedial map process is moving in Louisiana. It'll look very similar to what we're seeing in Alabama. So we're keep fighting.

We're seeing a little bit more of the same in the short term and hopefully get lots of new maps. What's the biggest argument that you have been hearing from, you know, Republicans on why this should not happen? One argument they have been making, and they made in their Supreme Court argument last year, was that, you know, it's inappropriate, basically. The enforcement of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act is somehow inappropriate because it looks at and considers race.

And the U.S. Supreme Court this spring just flatly rejected that argument. Marina, thank you so much for joining us here. Marina Jenkins, we appreciate your time.

Thank you for having me. And that does it for us here. We'll be back Monday with more Meet the Press Now. And if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC News station.

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