Meet the Press NOW — September 11

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Offer includes 1% loyalty rate reduction for qualifying customers. Visit hyundaicanda.com or your local dealer for details. Welcome to MEET THE press. Now I'm Kristen Welker.

At a pivotal and unsettling moment in modern American history. As investigators are searching for the person who assassinated conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Americans are grappling with the terrifying rise of political violence and his elected leaders face questions about their own safety and the inflammatory rhetoric that has become part of our political discourse. So for the latest on the investigation, the FBI releasing these photos, you see them there.

Of what it calls a person of interest in yesterday's fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. Authorities say they've made a number of breakthroughs in the search for who shot and killed the 31 year old father and Trump ally seen here interacting with the crowd just moments before the shooting. Police have recovered the weapon believed to have been used, a high powered bolt action rifle, as well as the suspected shooter's footprint and imprints from his palm and forearm. Investigators also say they've been able to track the suspect before and after the shooting.

Listen, after the shooting, we were able to track his movements as he moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building and fled off of the campus into a neighborhood. Our investigators have worked through those neighborhoods, contacting anybody they can with doorbell cameras, witnesses, and thoroughly works through those communities trying to identify any leads. We will not stand for what happened yesterday. We are exhausting every lead we have, every officer invested in this, every investigator, every local agency.

We are investing everything we have into this and we will catch this individual. Now officials say FBI Director Kash Patel is on his way right now to Orem. That's where yesterday's shooting took place. They will hold a news conference once he arrives.

The White House, meanwhile, has been deeply shaken by Charlie Kirk's killing, officials telling NBC News that President Trump was briefed in real time yesterday and met with top aides in the Oval Office while others monitor developments from the SITUATION Room today. The president first announced Kirk's death on social media yesterday, calling him a patriot and saying today he would posthumously honor his friend and confidant. Charlie was a giant of his generation, a champion of liberty and an inspiration to millions and millions of people. Our prayers are with his wonderful wife, Erica and his beautiful children.

Fantastic people they are. We miss him greatly. Yet I have no doubt that Charlie's voice and the courage he put into the hearts of countless people, especially young people, will live on. I'm pleased to announce that I will soon be awarding Charlie Kirk posthumously the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Now, Charlie Kirk's killing comes nearly a year to the day after the second assassination attempt of President Trump. The trial for the man charged in that attack began this week, and political violence has only escalated in the last 12 months. U.S. capitol Police say that agents are on track to work through roughly 14,000 cases of threats made to members, their families and staff by the end of the year.

That breaks down to more than one case every hour, every day of the year and dwarfs the number of cases it has handled in any of the previous eight years. Leaders from both parties condemned yesterday's shooting with a mix of warning, frustration and anger. And starting us off today, NBC News correspondent Steve Patterson joining me from Oregon, Utah. Also with me, NBC News national law enforcement intelligence correspondent Tom Winter, as well as Jim Cavanaugh, retired ATF special agent in charge and now an NBC News law enforcement analyst.

Thank you all for being here on yet another somber day. Steve, you are there in Orem. Walk us through what investigators are saying about the focus of their efforts right now. Well, I think we have to start off with something that you mentioned, Kristen, which is that news conference which was scheduled for now more than an hour ago and then rescheduled and pushed ahead because of what was described as rapid development in the case.

Now that has been indefinitely postponed until a later date, one we don't know this sort of times out, the fact that the FBI director, as you mentioned, as well on the ground, and maybe something that he wants to personally announce himself, although they say he's an insistent role, but maybe a major break in case we simply don't know yet. In the meantime, obviously, this investigation now focuses on the Tangible evidence that's on the ground. That weapon, a high powered, high powered bolt action assault rifle recovered in a wooded area somewhere close to campus. And obviously impressions of footprints and handprints taken nearby.

This is key for a number of reasons. Obviously, they can sweep it for prints, they can track the purchase history. There's a lot of investigative resources that they can use now that they have that rifle. But it also fits into a timeline that we know investigators are building now, placing that person of interest on campus at about 11:52 yesterday, that is minutes before that shooting took place.

We know that person of interest, according to authorities, took a staircase up to that student center believed to be about 200 yards from that vantage point where that fatal tragic shot took place. We now also know that Corey, saying the person left off of the roof and escaped through campus to a nearby neighborhood. There's a lot of investigative attention on this neighborhood, obviously because people have ring cameras, might be able to tell investigators something, may have some piece of evidence or witness something in that neighborhood. And as a byproduct of that, obviously there's a lot of combing for audio, for video, for images, anything that can help them with their investigation and help them get that information to the public so the public can assist with the information.

It's part of the reason why there is now $100,000 reward from the FBI alongside of those images of what police and FBI agents believe is that person of interest, a person with a baseball cap, the jeans, what appears to be a hoodie with an emblem emblazone on it. They say this is the person that they are looking for and of course, afraid to reach out to the public for help and assistance in this case. That's where we stand, Kristen. But a lot more hopefully to say a little bit later on today.

Kristen. Yeah. Authorities are urging anyone with information about the man on your screen just there to contact them, let them know where or what type of information you may have about his whereabouts. Steve, let me ask you about Vice President J.D.

vance traveling to Utah today to meet with Charlie Kirk's family and friends. We know that they were friends. The vice president has been writing about his relationship with Charlie Kirk, his grief right now, his grief for his family. What can you tell us about that trip?

Yeah, obviously J. Vance very close with Charlie Kirk, as you, of course, have reported. The family's very close as well as we know Jamie Vance is in the Salt Lake City area, has met with the family, will be, if not Ari, has been to the medical examiner's office. They are there to receive the body of Charlie Clerk alongside again, Charlie Clark's family, including his wife, who is supposed to escort the body along with Jamie Vance onto Air Force Two where it will be returned to his family there in Arizona.

So a tragic, somber. Again, another tragic, somber day. But now the family meeting obviously with members of the White House. It is just incredibly tragic.

You're absolutely right. Steve Harrison, thank you for your reporting on the ground there. Please let us know if there are any developments. Come, let me turn to you.

You've been working your law enforcement sources. How close are investigators to finding a suspect? And of course, it does come against the backdrop of. Of FBI Director Kash Patel making his way to Orem.

That's right, Kristen. So what we know, at least at this hour, is that there has not been an arrest made as of this moment. Excuse me. But officials have definitely said that they believe that there is.

There have been additional developments in the case, that it is progressing forward to Steve's point to go a little bit deeper into the evidence here. They have a palm print, they have a footwear print which is basically just whatever the imprint that shoot this individual had. They have a forearm print. They obviously have the weapon, which is helpful in the ability to trace that weapon back to its original owner.

Perhaps it is the shooter. They have video of this individual. So they have a lot. And that's just what they briefed this on at 9am so you can be sure between now and then they've developed some additional clues into this individual who fired.

You're looking there at a map of what officials have described as where this person fired from. They even apparently have video of him jumping off of that roof onto the ground to be able to leave the scene after he fires that single shot at Charlie Kirk from a high powered bolt action rifle. The type of weapon that somebody would use to do this. They'd have to have some proficiency.

It's 200 yards, but it is the type of shot that you could, you could use here. So look, this investigation is going to be complex going forward. Obviously the priority is finding the person who did this. Absolutely the very highest priority, Tom.

There's no doubt about that. And yesterday was somewhat confusing because we learned that first there was someone in custody, then that person had been released, then there was a second person in custody. What can you tell us about the two people who were questioned and then released and authorities still looking for the person behind this? There were several names that were circulating among law enforcement yesterday as individuals that police were initially looking for.

All Those, as they describe it, washed out. It just means that they looked at those names and looked into those individuals. Those are obviously not the people that they're looking for. Two of them.

One was seen on social media video being taken into custody there at the scene. That's something that apparently Utah law enforcement officials are quite familiar with. It's described by some reports as a gadfly as others as a criminal interfering in protests. That individual faces a local obstruction of justice charges.

No connection to the shooting, according to law enforcement officials. And then the second person was interrogated, but that person apparently had nothing to do with it either. You know, officials were not going to make their lives worse than officials who put those names out publicly last night because those people had received threats, even though they were never officially named suspects. So a bit of a challenging moment here in this investigation and speaks to the moment in the kind of the hot house atmosphere that we have on social media of certainly people looking for justice, understandably people hoping for arrests in this case.

Yeah, Part of the backdrop to the current climate which we find ourselves. Tom Winter, thank you so much for your reporting. And of course, once that news conference starts, we will bring it to you live. Jim Cavanaugh, let me head over to you.

Pick up where Tom left off. We got this post from FBI Director Cash Patel yesterday saying basically that the shooter was in custody, only to announce a short time later that actually the person who had been taken into custody had been released and they were still searching for the shooter. How unusual is that? Well, it's a flub, really.

It's a mistake. Washington doesn't need to be making those announcements over the unseen command. And whenever you're in a big case like this, Chris, you've a lot of people that come up that really look like they're the killer. The suspects come up fast and quick, and they're on your board.

You know, in a D.C. sniper case, I could look up from the command desk and see eight names on our board. And on every one of those names, I would have had an agent or detective pounded on my desk swearing that was the DC Sniper. And, you know, because we had a lot of little evidence that made him look like that.

But we had to prove, well, that's not the guy. We put a surveillance on him. And when we have a killing, we realize, oh, this guy was in bed, so it's not him. So you get a lot of names like that and you talk to people like that and they're persons of interest, which was, you know, a phrase coined By Attorney General John Ashcroft after the Richard Jewell case, on the case in Birmingham.

So because of Richard Jewell, when they went to the anthrax case in Washington, they dubbed the person a person of interest. That turned out to be the wrong person as well. But so persons of interest can also be witnesses. But what's important today is major breaks in the case.

So if you're in command of this case, majority major breaks, the rifle, major breaks, you get fingerprints, DNA, hair, and you can trace the weapon. Even the towel that's around the weapon that was reported can be full of sweat DNA. So that's a great breakthrough. The images are also very, very good.

But one thing about just analyzing these images, as a commander, if I were shown those two images, I'd say the first thing that's striking about them is it's absolutely a disguise. I mean, this is absolutely a disguise. Well, you have these wraparound sunglasses, the hat. You have this shirt with an American flag with an eagle.

You know, Charlie Kirk was wearing a shirt that said freedom. His crowd is very, very patriotic. You know, they're very patriotic as his followers and his crowd. This is a killer trying to blend in.

I would read that shirt as a part of the disguise. And from these two images, I don't think you could be sure that this is a man or a woman. Very slight build here, lanky. The way the person's fists are positioned.

Now, that's just all we have. The authorities have video of the person running and other video, and they may be able to tell absolutely from the gate and the other video that this is a male. But I'm just saying, from a commander standpoint, you never just assume that's a male because you could be thrown off the whole trail of the killer. So you have to look at what you have.

Just very quickly, Jim, how critical are these next 24 hours, given that two people were taken into custody and released? And as far as we know, authorities don't have anyone in custody yet. I mean, how critical are these next several hours? I think they're probably gonna get a breakthrough fast.

It's key to find a weapon, Kristen. That is really the treasure trove of information that they need that connects a projectile that went through Mr. Kirk. They can match it to the rifle, the caliber, at least.

Maybe there's plans and grooves in the barrel, and they can connect that weapon. Most likely be able to connect it to some person. Now they just gotta get some names, some tips. I think it's this guy.

I think it's this Person. I think it's her. Well, then they can check. They got a palm print.

They have DNA. They connect that rifle to someone, they got a murder case. All right, Jim Kavanaugh, thank you so very much for your insights. We really appreciate it.

I'm joined now by the mayor of Orem, Utah, David Young. Mayor Young, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Well, thank you.

Thank you for having me. I want to extend my condolences for the loss of life in your city. I think it's fair to say the nation is mourning today. And I want to ask, because I know this impact so many people who were there to listen to Charlie Kirk speak.

I've spoken to some of them. I know their hearts are broken right now. How is your city holding up? It's difficult.

I mean, this is something we've never encountered before. Orem's been here for 105 years, 106 years, and we've just never anything like this. So this is completely foreign to our nature and how we live. I talked to a number of people who were at the event, too, and they're not okay.

I mean, to see somebody murdered right in front of your face is just, you know, they're not okay. That was my sense from talking to witnesses yesterday. Just the realization of the ripple effects that yesterday's assassination will have in the coming days, weeks, and, frankly, years to come. And obviously, there is this intense manhunt right now for whoever is responsible for this horrific act.

What are you telling your residents right now, Mayor Young? As authorities search for the shooter, I mean, obviously, be cautious. We don't know who's out there, and we don't even know if they're even here anymore. I mean, this.

This was obviously very targeted. It wasn't like a mass shooting where this. This person that was, you know, was shooting crowds and all that sort of thing. It was very deliberate, very targeted.

It was very Charlie Kirk. And so with that in mind, I think people are going on with their normal lives because, you know, it's not like you're walking up, down the street shooting people, that sort of thing. So things are going on. There's a big sense of sorrow.

There's a big sense of loss. There's a big frustration about why was this person allowed to come into our community and do this? Because this is not who we are. This is not.

I mean, we don't have murders around here. I mean, we're saving 100,000 people, and it's very safe. People are very kind, very giving Just very happy in general. So that has inflicted on us.

We're, we're working through that. And Charlie Kirk was there because he was doing what he does, which he was having a spirited debate with college students. He was trying to get young people engaged in political discourse. Maybe you disagreed with him, maybe you agreed with him.

We should say that as we're having this conversation. Mayor, we are looking at images of Vice President JD Vance arriving in Utah on Air Force Two to meet with the Kirk family. But what do you think the impact of this horrific event will be on what is really the cornerstone of our democracy, Those political debates? Right.

No, I mean, I'm obviously concerned about that. I mean, even from a standpoint of, I mean, they do these events outdoors. They give big crowds. You know, there's a lot of excitement.

I mean, that's what we've had been since the beginning of time. Right. And just, I don't want to see that go away. I don't want to see that stifled.

Because in my opinion, that's the goal of whoever did this is to stifle that communication, that free speech and that discussion, that conversation. So anything that I don't want this to turn into a situation that stifles that, I think that's really important for our country to have that and that communication. And as Charlie Kirk himself said, I mean, with that communication, things fall apart so well. We will leave it with the words of Charlie Kirk.

Mayor David Young, thank you so very much for joining us. And again, our thoughts are with your entire community. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And coming up, shock, anger, blame, and please to turn down the temperature as political leaders react to the horrifying killing of Charlie Kirk. We'll get live reports from the White House and Capitol Hill. Plus, a Republican senator and longtime friend of Charlie Kirk joins me in the studio to reflect on the conservative leader's life and legacies.

Congress and the nation. Search for answers. You're watching me, the press now. Stay with us.

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Call on the experts that know how to beat the heat conditions apply. See website for details. Welcome back. As we mentioned, reaction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk continues to pour in, including from top political leaders.

We have seen a mix of sadness, anger, frustration, fear, some finger pointing. Last night, President Trump posting a video statement to his social media account. He cast blame for the shooting on his political rivals. And it comes as authorities are still searching for a suspect.

Take a listen what the president said. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today. And it must stop right now.

From the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania, last year, which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a healthcare executive in the streets of New York, to the shooting of House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and three others, radical political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives. And congressional leaders reacting to those comments today, he's deeply moved by this as well. He's very close to Charlie. And, you know, Charlie's very close to Trump family.

So he feels, you know, acute loss. And he's, as he said in his own words last night in his message, he's angry and deeply disturbed about it. And that's a natural demon. I'm not saying the President of the United States with it.

So you will hear me as I have always done. I'm trying to turn temperature down around here. I always do that. The bottom line is this is a time that all Americans should come together and feel and mourn what happened.

Violence which affects so many different people of so many different political persuasions is an affliction of America. And coming together is what we ought to be doing, not pointing fingers at blame. This moment requires leadership that brings the American people together as opposed to trying to further divide us. Political violence in any form against any American is unacceptable, should be denounced by everyone.

And moving forward, we have to figure out a better way to come together, not as Democrats or Republicans, but as Americans. Joining me now is NBC News senior White House correspondent Garrett Hagen. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Melanie Zinona. Garrett, I want to start with you.

I've been talking to people at the White House. They describe the absolute shock that everyone is in there. One person said to me, so many of the top officials there had personal relationships with Charlie Kirk. So they are in mourning right now.

Talk to me about the reaction that you're hearing. Yeah, not just top officials, but junior officials, too, who knew Charlie Kirk in many cases from a campaign when she was someone in the foxhole with them, rhetorically speaking. And he was also someone that was broadly admired, again, especially by the younger people on the staff. It is hard to overstate how important he's been to the conservative movement over the last seven or eight years.

Donald Trump Jr earlier today called him the single most important person other than his father, the President of the United States, at winning in 2024. And so there are both personal relationships and political relationships that have been nurtured over a very long time and have that all lost very suddenly in video clips that one could not avoid on social media. Yesterday is deeply shaken people affiliated with this White House inside and out, who knew Charlie Kirkwell and Garrett, talk to me about Vice President J.D. vance.

He is flying to meet with the Kirk family and to bring Charlie's body back. It's a very deeply personal, emotional act. Talk about his relationship with Charlie Kirk and the implications of what the vice president is doing today. Yeah, it's a personal, emotional act befitting a personal, emotional relationship that had some depth to it, according to the vice president, who in a lengthy post on X earlier today, talking about his relationship with Kirk and how in fact 2017, how they both struggled initially with the idea of supporting Donald Trump and then about the manner in which they grew their friendship, in some cases through debate about religion, about politics, about Vance's future.

They're both fathers of relatively young children. There's clearly a lot more personal kinship there between Jamie Vance and Charlie Kirkcardy, who are sort of creatures of a similar age in the Republican Party. You see this gesture of bringing Air Force Two out to transport Charlie Kurt's body and some of his family members and friends back to Arizona. That's just never done.

I mean, this is incredibly rare act politically. I think a powerful symbol of how close that relationship was. It certainly is a powerful symbol. And Garrett, you talk about his children.

And I think for the entire nation that is in mourning, that is one of the most devastating aspects of this lost those two beautiful young children who now have to grow up without their dad. Garrett, thank you so much for your reporting from the White House. Now let me turn to you. You have been talking to lawmakers there on Capitol Hill.

What is the mood on Capitol Hill today? I can only imagine that the grief extends all the way down Pennsylvania Avenue. It does. And over the last 24 hours, I would say the mood went from sad and somber to outraged and angry.

And I can't emphasize enough how uned lawmakers are, how scared they are for their own safety. I think for Republicans especially, this is deeply personal and hates Close to home. Many of them have really close personal connections to Charlie Kirk, including the speaker himself said that he was a close confidant. One member of Congress even introducing a resolution today to grant Charlie Kirk the Congressional Gold Medal of Honor.

But for members of both parties, this slaying in broad daylight at a public event is such a reminder of how truly vulnerable members are when they go out in public and interact with people, which is a part of the job, especially when they go back home to their districts. But despite those shared fears, there is less agreement about how best to turn down the temperatures and how to prevent this type of political violence from happening in the future. So that is a challenge not only for Congress, but also our entire country right now. It certainly is.

Mel, I'm going to talk to my next guest about this as well. But let me ask you, what are the conversations around ramping up security for lawmakers? The leadership is an active conversations right now. I told the sergeant at Arms about potential security enhancements.

I will say that after the political assassinations in Minnesota this summer, they did opt to increase funding for members to be able to hire their own personal security or to make upgrade their own personal homes. But that increase is actually set to expire at the end of the fiscal year, which would be the end of this month. And just more broadly, Kristen, there are limitations to securing all 535 members of Congress. It's just not realistic to provide security for every single member of Congress.

And this is something they've been wrestling with for years, I mean, this uptake in threats against members of Congress. So in the meantime, members are starting to take matters into their hands. I talked to a number of members this morning from both sides of the aisle who say they're either moving events that were outdoors, indoors, canceling events altogether. One member, Nancy N.

Told me that she's gonna start carrying a firearm wherever she can go. So this incident really just reverberating on Capitol Hillson, it certainly isn't. And now the issue of security more urgent than ever. Mel Garrett.

Ha. Thank you both so much. I am joined now by Senator Markway Mullen of Oklahoma. He was also a friend of Charlie Kirk.

Senator, I want to start off by extending my condolences to you. I'm so sorry for your loss. And I want to just ask how you're holding up today. You know, I a lot.

Charlie was a friend, but who's really hurting today is his family. You know, you have take your time. You know, we're good. You have Erica this morning.

That's lost her soulmate, and she's looking at how she's going to raise her family without her husband, who is a devoted husband, a devoted Christian, a devoted leader, a devoted father. That's who's hurting today. You know, and I have experienced way more death in my life than I should. And you kind of grasp it.

And I don't ever get emotional about it because it's the arena that I used to walk in. But this hurts. And the reason why it hurts is because it's so senseless. Right?

I mean, what did Charlie do to anybody? He wasn't intimidating anybody. The guy didn't make laws. He wasn't politically elected.

He simply went to campuses and gave people an open opportunity to voice their opposing opinion. And he didn't do it in a condescending way. He didn't do it in a belittling way. He didn't do it in a showboating way.

He brought Christian values, traditional values. And we debate you from a biblical standpoint or from a political standpoint, from a constitutional standpoint, from a founding father standpoint. And he was so knowledgeable in every bit of it. And.

And so why was he so threatening? What was it that was so threatening about Charlie Kirk, that you felt like you need to silence his voice and take that voice away from his children the rest of their life to take away that husband from Erica the rest of his life. What was so threatening to you that you had to remove him from this world and steal him from all this? And my mom sent me something while ago which was actually, you know, she doesn't text that much, and she sent me a text message.

She said, knowing Charlie and knowing that he was such a strong Christian man, which, thank God, we have, we have the Lord to lean on and the faith to believe. Where Charlie is resting today, at the hand, you know, the feet of the Lord. She said, he was only on this world for 31 years, and his spirit must have known that because he accomplished major things. He changed the conversation on our campuses.

He got political people that would never be involved. Involved. He found a turning point when he was only 18 years old. And what did he do with it?

And he made drastic changes in 31 years of his life and really 12 years of it. And he's left a legacy for all of us to move forward. So it hurts. It does hurt, and it hurts more than what it should, especially, you know, for someone that's been through, you know, the death so often, and it's just because it shouldn't have happened, it shouldn't have happened.

And you describe so perfectly what it was he did. He was fostering political debate, which is the center of our democratic process. What, senator, do you think? I mean, you've spoken about his legacy so beautifully.

What are the implications of this horrific act to take away this young father and this person who inspired so many? Well, I think there's several roles that have to be played here. One role we all can do better. All of us to speak and sometimes use phrases that get a rise out of people, right?

We use those sketchy phrases saying if it bleeds, it leads. It's not just to the media, to the politicians, too, that tries to catch that one catchphrase that's going to be replayed over and over again. And all sometimes we're doing a stroke of the fire with throwing gasoline on it, as we call gaslighting. And we have to do better, right?

We've been through some very dark times in this country, and every time we know it'll come out better if we're able to hit the reset. Second of all, we can't. Someone tried to steal Charlie's voice from us, and it's on us to make sure it doesn't stop. The movement he started with the young people, the movement he started on the campuses needs to continue and needs to multiply fashion.

When he was even able to do it, the way he was open, able to have conversations without hatred, the way he was able to show love to those people, he drastically disagreed. He showed us how to debate with words and knowledge and not fear. And I personally can do a heck of a lot better at that. All of us can do better at that.

He was able to articulate a message that people that even didn't disagree with him could smile and take something from it. And I do want to ask you about what should come next and what has to happen to end this climate that you have described. And I know you've said that there has to be a reset. You've said also, when is the Democrat going to stand up for the hatred and lies they fed their base that led to these actions, broadly speaking.

And as you just pointed to, Charlie Kirk was the latest victim of an assassination. We know that there were lawmakers killed and targeted in Minnesota. Is this a bipartisan message that you have applied to Democrats and Republicans? It applies all of us.

Like I said, we all, we all own this. We all have some responsibility for this. Now what are we going to do with it? As leaders, yourself, you know, elected leaders, we all have Some responsibility.

So what are we going to do? We all say we're shaken, but what are we going to change? Because you can't control crazy and you can't legislate morality. Those two, those are impossible things to do.

But we can. We also know how to be more responsible with the words we say. They say six and stuff. Like me.

That's not accurate and we know that. We've been taught that. But that's not accurate. And so the sense responsibility that we can take from this is we can agree to disagree.

I've been telling myself all day my mantra has been since 2016, let the people love the call. Today's a tough day just because it's 9 11. And now on top of that, we're dealing with, we're dealing with Charlie Kirk in a senseless act of assassination. We all have responsibility and we can do better.

And I think we can. And that's across the board. We just heard my colleague describe some of the fear of the lawmakers on Capitol Hill. I mean Charlie Kirk wasn't even an elected official.

He was someone who was energizing young people. Senator, how do you feel about your own safety? You are a dad, you have a family. Does there need to be better security for lawmakers on Capitol Hill?

I don't care for own safety. I don't other things, two categories things I do some about things I can't. So fear doesn't drive me at all and so I can't worry about that. I do worry about wife and kids.

Obviously we take precautions in that matter. As far as security for all 535 members, what's the cost of life? Right. It is very expensive.

If you just go and you say because I'm actually on the chair that's going to oversee this and oversee the budget of a skills through ledge branches. So that's. I've already been working on this. In fact we started working on it through August.

But just say we put a detail at what an average governor has in the state of. In most states it's usually a three person detail. Not what the speaker's detail is, not what some of our, you know, Iraqi officials have. But just three people.

Well, you gotta have SUVs in every state. You start talking about a 3% detail also has to have actually six because they gotta have rotations in and out. Because it's 25 detail. You gotta have two vehicles, not one because you have advanced equals another one.

You gotta be able to work with a local law enforcement. You gotta have a memorial of understanding with every jurisdiction that you're walking into, it's very, very complicated, very expensive. But as American people willing to, as a taxpayers willing to pay for, we can budget it and we can make it happen, but at what cost is huge. And for me, I'm saying, do we want this to happen again?

Because all of us that are in the political world, including yourself, we can all say it's not a matter of if. Would you agree? Yeah. And so at what point are we gonna be forced to do.

Let's be prior to the react and figure out how we can make these, these political officials somewhat secure. But even with the detail, But I just want to put this out, even the detail. Charlie Kirk at a security ground that doesn't keep a sniper 200 yards away from shooting you. Look at President Trump.

It doesn't keep that from happening. It just keeps the crazies from getting too close to you. You have to go very quickly. I do want to give you the final word to let you.

How would you like your friend Charlie Kirk to be remembered? A legend, a. A game changer, a trailblazer, a Christian, a father and an unbelievable husband. An example to all of us.

Senator, I'm so deeply sorry for your loss and I'm sorry we have to have this conversation in the first place, but I really appreciate your coming by and sharing your perspective with us. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Senator Markway Mullen. We really appreciate it. And coming up next, the rise of extremism and targeted political violence in America. Top Expert helps us understand the troubling trends and how to address them.

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Listen daily on Amazon Music. Welcome back. The assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk is the latest jarring example of political violence in this country which has risen to levels that we have not seen in generations. In the last 15 years we have witnessed acts of violence aimed at political figures on both sides of the aisle, some of them fatal targeting figures at virtually all levels of government, state, lawmakers, governors, congress and the President himself.

These are just a few examples and by no means a comprehensive list. But we have compiled it to illustrate the alarming frequency, especially as of late, of these kinds of incidents. And it's just so hard to look at that list. Joining me now to explore how we got here is an expert on the subject, Cynthia Miller Idris, director of the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab at American University.

Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. If you would just start off by putting this moment into perspective. You look at that list and it's frankly breathtaking.

It doesn't seem like we've experienced a moment like this, quite frankly, and correct me if I'm wrong, But since the 1960s, you're right, we haven't experienced a moment like this since the 1960s into the 1970s. We're now at the levels of political violence that we saw at that time. You know, we started to see the rise in assassinations, political assassinations happening also overseas in the UK and Germany and elsewhere over the last several years. And really, as we just heard, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when at this point because so much has been unleashed and the genie is really kind of out of the bottle.

But the data is very clear. We are at levels of political and hateful violence that we haven't seen since the 1970s for sure. And would you describe the assassination of Charlie Kirk, this 31 year old dad who was a conservative activist? Does this feel like a watershed moment, like something has shifted in the discussion around political violence?

I first of all had to condemn the violence. It's horrific. No matter what Your opinions are in terms of whether you like what someone says or not. There is no cause for somebody to get shot ever.

And there's no cause for political violence like that. And so I think that's the first thing that has to be said unequivocally across the spectrum. And we have seen that thankfully in the last 24 hours among elected officials and among leaders, we've seen a lot of condemnation. We're not seeing that same kind of condemnation universally happened on social media, which is really troubling.

It reminds me a little bit of that assassination of the United Health Care executive. We saw some celebrations even. And I think that's where part of what we have to see now is a dialing back of the rhetoric. This is.

Or it could be a watershed moment. It may be when we look back, a moment where we say that's where things started to change. I hope it's a moment where we say, let's start investing in prevention again. Because that's the kind of thing that, you know, at this point we can't securitize our way out of this.

It's too expensive, it's too impossible, and it means being perfect every time. But there are ways to prevent this. When you see red flags and warning signs that indicate something might need to be off ramped, and when you're talking about the rhetoric itself, because you're describing what you've seen online, it is horrific to think anyone could celebrate the assassination of another human life. How can we begin to rein that in?

Because that is the backdrop, this hatred, this vitriol that we see online. And that's the backdrop to all of this. Absolutely. I mean, there's sort of two major things that we have to see happen.

One, we have to see everybody across the political spectrum and within their identity based forms of anger start walking away from the us versus them thinking this existential threat posed by the other, that starts to position violence as an acceptable solution or even a preferable one to any kinds of differences. So once you see people describing the other group as an existential threat, that's a big warning sign and red flag for somebody starting to move toward thinking, well, it's time to be violence, because violence, because none of the rest of this has worked. And the second thing is really that second piece that we hear sometimes on college campuses across the spectrum is that there is no political solution anymore. That itself is a call to violence.

And so we have to help young people in particular start to see that political solutions can work. But that requires grown UPS and older adults and leaders to demonstrate that political solutions work. And on the other side of that is this. For example, you referenced the shooting of the healthcare CEO and the fact that the suspected killer there who's been charged has been lifted up as a folk hero in some circles online.

Is that motivating other people potentially to take up these horrific acts of violence? There's a huge risk of that. We've seen that with white supremacist extreme shooters over the years where they're actually seeking martyrdom. It's one of the reasons why I never name the actual shooters.

I only refer to the incident or the city because they want that kind of recognition. They want to be seen as heroes. They're sometimes called saints. And I think we're starting to see the potential for the same type of thing to happen with political violence from the left and the right, where attacks are driven also by ego and a desire to show that you're willing to, you know, put your put your money where your mouth is, so to say, to be violent and stand up for these things that you believe in so strongly.

So we really have to help people walk back from that idea that violence is valorized, is desired, is effective or is acceptable in any way. Well, it's really critical information on again, just an incredibly somber day for this nation. CYNTHIA miller, Interest thank you so much for joining us with your insights. We really appreciate it.

I now want to bring in our panel, political journalist Rhonda Colton Naked Hayes, former special assistant to President Biden, and former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, Charlie Dent. Thanks to all of you for being here on a really tough day to have this conversation. Let me start with you, Rhonda, and I just want to go around the table on this. What do you make of this moment?

What do you think the broader implications are of this horrific act of violence? Well, I think one of the things we're and I think your expert just hit on this is that you're seeing a lot of elected officials on both sides of the aisle call out, you know, political violence. They are not mincing words all the same directly that this needs to stop. So you're seeing some unification there.

But social media is a whole different atmosphere. And I think in the days and weeks ahead, we'll see our lawmakers going to stick with trying to present a unifying message. Right now, what I think we're saying, a lot of them are very scared. A lot of them are shaken.

We stand on the Hill. I just had an interview with Senator Mullen and he was A little emotional toward the end. I think that this is a moment where they're all trying to figure out how they fit in. What is their role, what are they going to tell Americans at a time when, you know, so many people are just scared.

Yeah, Charlie, the message right now is so important. You heard Senator Mullen quite frankly say everyone needs to play a role in this moment in turning the temperature down and in trying to fix this nation. Governor Cox yesterday said the nation is broken. It was so incredibly powerful.

But it made me really stop and think, how do you even begin to address the enormity of this problem? Well, it's interesting. We've been talking a little about social media and that's where people go to hate. And people say things on social media that they would never in a million years say to your face or any kind of a public forum.

And what really shook me up, this is horrible happening yesterday. Charlie Kerr, who was exercising the first amount of skill for but after Gabby, give her a shot. That's when I started taking this much more seriously that here she was discreet constituents at some kind of office hours shopping mall and she was nearly killed. And then Steve Scalise and by the way, and I noticed too that we started creating safe, an office space where people could go to safe room in our district office.

We stopped allowing him to stay, walk right into the district office. We had Gabby buzzed in. We could see them before they came in. We had, we were very, very careful about that.

Anytime I went out publicly after Gabby Giffords in a noticed event, we always make sure there's a police officer there, which had a very civilizing effect on the conversation, by the way. But I just, that's what's happened. But I think with social media though, people are, and there's so many isolated, socially isolated folks out there, they say terrible things and sadly a small number of them will act out on these, these terrible impulses. In our state, Pennsylvania, you know, we had Governor Shapiro's mansion was fire bombed recently.

And so it's I, I fear these members, it's the security environment is much worse now than it was. But it's incumbent upon the elected officials and the various pundits and activists and others to use more measured rhetoric to be much more careful. I think some of that also contributes to some of these terrible acts. Megan, speak to that point.

The importance of measured rhetoric and what Charlie is describing, the fact that there is so much hate online, everyone at this table, I bet at one point or another has been targeted by the hate that we see online, it feels terrible, it feels scary. But again, it is creating this toxic backdrop. Yeah, absolutely. I think that everyone's a keyboard warrior.

Right. Like, you just. I just look at when we get these messages online, there's someone sitting in their mom's face and just, like, writing to you, so you sort of just brush it off. But you don't know.

You don't know what people are capable of. And I think one thing that really strikes me is we can come to these people, and as a Democrat and your Republican, we can have really heated conversations about policies and the tactics of how we're going to enforce us. But at the end of the day, we're going to leave here and have conversations and text each other. We're all friends and we're friendly.

We care about each other's families and care about each other as people. And I think that's what's missing when people get online. They're missing the human side of these policies. And the human side.

Charlie Kirk was. He has very distinct views or had very distinct views on things. And. But that's his right to do.

But that doesn't mean that he wasn't caring about the other side or didn't have a real human connection with people who were Democrats or did not believe him. He wanted to debate them. He wanted to have a dialogue. And I think the humanization piece that you were saying, people are isolated is really a huge problem in our society right now.

I think of all the painful things about this assassination, he was quite literally exercising his First Amendment rights, trying to energize young people around our political process. Rhonda, let me ask you, because we did hear from President Trump, who did labeling at the feet of Democrats, what is the reaction that you are hearing to the fact that the president is taking that tone? And we know the investigators are still looking for suspects. We don't actually know who the actual killer is, what the actual motive is yet.

Yeah. You know, one thing that has stood out to me in the last 24 hours is that you're seeing lawmakers, like I said, on both sides of the aisle, choose words carefully, but be very pointed in those words, saying that they decry any sort of violence. I have not seen any sort of whites, or at least elected officials or national Republicans who have been saying that this is at the foot of Democrats. You haven't really been saying that a lot, which, again, may be showing a promising sign that people want to figure out what has happened first.

They want to understand the situation better, and they Want to take a moment of pause so I'm not saying a lot of blame. Again, social media is a different atmosphere and there are different conversations happening on those platforms. Yeah, Meghan, you know we put up the list of the assassination attempts at the political violence, quite frankly since 2011, exactly as Charlie references. These are just some of them.

Look at how extensive this list is. I mean I growing up listening to stories that my parents would tell about growing up when they were in the 60s about losing their political leaders. And it takes my breath away that now we're living in this world where we are losing our political leaders or they are being threatened or attacked in this way. And not only that, Charlie Kirk had such an influence on young people.

My 15 year old niece posted something on her social media, had no idea she even knew he was or anything. And I called her last night, we were talking and the one thing that really struck me is all her friends were talking about it. But these are now our young people are being exposed to this and being exposed. This is how their politics are now.

And that is not acceptable as a country. We need to do better for our young people and they need to be much more. It's great that they're involved, it's great that they got him involved. But this, the violence piece of this they do not need to know.

Sadly, we have had a long history of political violence in this country. Go back to the old age. Abraham Lincoln, Garfield and McKinley were all assassinated within 35 years of each other in the 1960s. JFK, Martin Luther King, RK all assassinated within years of each other.

And you know, here we are again. And I just feel like we're in another really bad moment, but this one seems more frightening. And again I think I put it on partly on social media because of this toxic environment. And frankly a lot of people lost faith in institutions and there's a lot of sense of helplessness and hopelessness out there.

It does feel like there's a fracturing of the country as you say, Charlie. Rhonda, pick up on that point and the fact that, you know, here we are on the 24th anniversary of the September 11 attacks. After this horrific tragedy and attack against the United States, the country really did come together, at least for a period of time. Is it possible in this moment of such deep divisions for the country to come together?

Do you think it could? And I think a majority of Americans would want that. I think a lot of people are also talking for conversations about what does this look like on the world stage to see a country divided over something like this instead of coming together. So there's that component, too.

But I think that is the question that remains is, is this a moment of pause where we reflect and look at what needs to change in everyone's rhetoric, or do you keep things going as they are? Which it is a very scary place. And I think 9, 11 having this be that anniversary, it's always a time to assess it and figure out where the country is. Okay, guys, thank you so much for a really thoughtful conversation.

Rhonda, Meghan, and Charlie, appreciate it. We are back tomorrow with more MEET the PRESS now. But there's more news ahead on NBC News now. Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of the Drink.

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