Meta NeuroScientist SHOCKED Me: Scale Alone Won’t Create Consciousness! David Sussillo - #543

Please join my mailing list here 👉 https://briankeating.com/list  to win a meteorite 💥 David Sussillo spent years training neural networks at Google Brain and now leads research at Meta Reality Labs. His verdict on the path to artificial consciousness might surprise you. In this conversation, we discuss why scaling transformers alone won't produce conscious AI, how recurrent neural networks differ from the transformer architectures powering today's LLMs, the FORCE algorithm he developed to train RNNs, what his work on Meta's EMG wristband reveals about AI and biological signals, Rich Sutton's Bitter Lesson and whether we're locked into a GPU-transformer paradigm, and why studying the brain may be the only way out of AI's current limitations. David is also the author of Emergence, a braided memoir that tells the story of his path from foster care to the frontier of neuroscience and AI research. David Sussillo is a research scientist at Meta Reality Labs and an adjunct professor at Stanford University. He completed his PhD at Columbia University under Larry Abbott and previously worked at Google Brain. Key Takeaways: 00:00 Scale alone won't produce consciousness — here's why  00:25 The "bitter lesson": big data crushes every algorithmic invention  01:15 How hallucinations were discovered early at Google  05:00 The lock-in problem: why LLM + GPU may cap AI's ceiling  08:25 What Meta's neural wristband is actually trying to solve  11:20 Rich Sutton's bitter lesson explained  14:15 "More is Different" — why you can't reduce complexity upward  28:30 The book Emergence — two stories braided into one  36:00 Why mentorship matters more than intelligence for at-risk kids  47:00 Stability over intensity: what kids in foster care actually need  ➡️ Follow David Sussillo  🌐 Website / Research: Meta Reality Labs  📚 Emergence (memoir): https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Memoir-Boyhood-Computation-Mysteries/dp/1538768577  🎓 Stanford / Columbia / Carnegie Mellon Alumni ✍️ Email: [email protected]  🏄‍♂️ Twitter: https://x.com/SussilloDavid Join this channel to get access to perks like monthly Office Hours: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmXH_moPhfkqCk6S3b9RWuw/join 📚 Get my books: Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner, with productivity tips from 9 Nobel Prize winners: https://a.co/d/03ezQFu Focus Like a Nobel Prize Winner, with life-changing interviews with 9 Nobel Prizewinners: https://a.co/d/hi50U9U My tell-all cosmic memoir Losing the Nobel Prize: http://amzn.to/2sa5UpA The first-ever audiobook from Galileo: Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems: Ptolemaic and Copernican https://a.co/d/iZPi9Un Follow me to ask questions of my guests: 🏄‍♂️ Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrBrianKeating 🔔 Subscribe https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating?sub_confirmation=1 📝 Join my mailing list; just click here http://briankeating.com/list ✍️ Detailed Blog posts here: https://briankeating.com/blog 🎙️ Listen on audio-only platforms: https://briankeating.com/podcast #universe #podcast #briankeating #intotheimpossible #science #astronomy #cosmology #cosmicmicrowavebackground #intotheimpossible #briankeating Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices