Michelle Icard

It's dating that with Jake and Paige, y'all. You know what time it is. So pull up a seat, grab a glass of wine, and take over the pit. Welcome back to another episode of Day Night with Jake and Paige.

Welcome back. We know us. Yes. It has been a minute, but it's so fun to come back with a return of repeat guests.

Oh my gosh, Michelle Eichard. I mean, just prolific writer, and finally she's a real writer. Oh, she said this by number three. She felt like she really had hit it.

This is her third book. It has eight setbacks that can make a child a success. Last time, Michelle came on, it was to talk about 14 talks by age 14, and she's also the author of middle school, makeover, a baller. Wow, you're such a rebel, not a bench warmer, little bit ego.

Little bit of a deep drag there for you. I come in with the tidbit there from Jake. Yeah. And so we've got a great partner.

Before we get into the podcast, we want to talk about an event that we are a part of. An event and a sponsor for this episode, exactly. Big Brothers, Big Sisters of Central Carolina sponsored this episode, a perfect match, wouldn't you say? So in case you're not familiar with Big Brothers, Big Sisters, they've been around since 1972.

They provide mentors that they call bigs for children that they call littles all over the region. 1500 kids, they have served in Mecklenburg, Cabarras, and York counties, connecting adults with local kids in meaningful one-to-one relationships. Jake, did you know they just won the 2022 pinnacle award? I did.

I did. We got the same read. Well, Jake, do that. Hopefully you're doing that home there.

That's news to you. It's one of the most prestigious agencies in the country. That means, and coming up, they've got the Big Toast. It is a night celebrating mentorship.

I cannot wait for that, by the way. I know. Coming up, that's October 5th, Jake and I will be there. That's at the collectors room.

And we will be there as well as Harvey Cummings. I don't know if you know Harvey. Did you ever know Harvey from? Don't know Harvey.

Oh, Harvey used to come on good day with us. He has a spectacular musician. You will love him. But listen, we know not everybody can come to the Big Toast.

If you can, we would love to see you there. And we will post details. If you cannot, you can still donate to the mentorship that Big Brothers Big Sisters does, or you could become a sponsor just in general. So check out BBS of Central Carolina's on Instagram or Facebook.

For event updates and more. Thank you so much for sponsoring. Thank you. I'm a Big Brother.

You're a little sister. I'm a little. I was just meant to say I was a little sister. I can teach you so much.

Just like Michelle taught us. Oh, she did. I was reminded again, and I told her this at the end of the episode. Truly what a delight she is.

And how she's sneaky quick-witted. I forgot how funny she is. And I really enjoyed talking to her. I'm a big fan.

And like just when we record this, this is a Friday evening. Yes. This is the exact time you want to just really focus and lock into a podcast. And she gave us 100%.

She's good. She was all in. She's wonderful. Guys, we love talking with Michelle Eichard.

I'm sure you will enjoy listening. The author of eight setbacks that can make a child a success. Here you go. Reporting in progress.

Oh. Oh, thank you, sorry. Sorry about that. All right.

What did I call it the other day? You call it Surrey. And you make fun of our kids all the time for mispronouncing things. I do.

Pretty sure that's a setback. Oh, the bow. Wow. That's so funny.

That there was an SNL skid about that. Do you remember that? You remember that? You remember that?

You remember that? Alexa? But all the old people were calling it something. Yes.

Yes. Alumna. Elena. Like getting it every time.

I do remember that one. That was hilarious. Hey, did you do you like typically to do podcasts on Friday evening when you'd rather be unwinding? Is that fun?

Do you like that? I do have a glass of wine booked after this. Attica. I'm working right now.

Cheers. I put beer in wine glasses because I'm extra apparently. He's super pretty. I was going to bring an actual drink.

But I didn't know what the vibe was. The vibe is absolutely brilliant. We like you at least half drunk for every podcast. So I'm recording this.

We could save it or we could post it to social. We could just clip little pieces. He means the video portion. Obviously audio portion.

Yeah, obviously. We could post podcasts. We could run the chat. We're trying a very first time actually recorded the audio of an interview.

I would love for you to do whatever you're comfortable doing. I'd love for you to promote it as much as you like. OK, cool. Well, I'm just glad that we could stay on the circuit after somebody goes on the Today Show.

I mean, I'm just saying. You did so quick. Was that your first time doing Today Show? I know you've done today parenting stuff before.

Yeah. Now that was my second time on the Today Show. But it's like a five-year gap in between. And the first time I wasn't talking about my work, I was just doing some general parenting stuff.

No, nerve-wracking. Yeah. Totally. Wait.

OK, can we just start there? Will you tell us? I mean, so I think I've talked about on here before. But I was an NBC page.

So part of my job used to be to give tours of the Today Show. And actually, when Jake and I met, I was a page at the weekend Today Show, which is what you did. What you did on Saturday or Sunday? No, I was wondering a week.

But I had the weekend host. I had Peter Alexander. Yes. And that's probably why it looked like a weekend segment.

But that's so cool that you worked there. Page Page. I was page to page and I wore Navy Blue Polyester and gave tours of the studios. And we would just make up facts.

So I'm curious from someone who's actually been on the show what it was really like. Well, I wouldn't know if anything was made up. So my impression was it is tiny. You don't think.

It looks like all the sets, massive. And it changes a lot. You see a couch and you see a table. But it's like one of those Ikea sets where they just swing in a different living room and then swing in a different dining table or whatever.

And I was shocked at the size of it all. They're incredibly nice. It's no joke. I'm not saying that.

But when you're done, you better be ready to get out of there. Just say it's a car wash. You're my friends in my head. But they are not their friends.

I totally know what you mean. Because page work there, she had friends that worked up there. I did not work in entertainment business. And I would come over and we'd all hang out like, am I like best friends with everyone in SNL?

They're like, no, no, Jake. You'll actually for sure never see them again. And you need to, you're embarrassed to guess. Do they do your hair and makeup?

So they used to do that. And the first time I went on they did. And this time I was like excited for that. That's one of the big bonuses ever since COVID.

They don't. Oh, wow. Oh, sad. The other thing they don't do is they don't let you hang in the green room.

What? What do you mean, the lobby? What do you outside on? You're in a little dressing room, which is cute, because it has your name on it.

You don't get to see the other celebrities. You don't get to gawk. I think it's, you know that song you could buy me a boat. You know that song?

It's a country song? Can you sing it? Actually, sing it. Oh, I'm so confused.

You can buy me a boat. That was it? Oh, OK. OK.

But it's basically money can't buy you happiness. But they get to buy me a boat. Yeah. Tell the one experience of being on a fancy show like you, we did our first wedding dance off.

Tell who we saw in the green room afterwards. So we do. I know this. Thankfully, we were pre-COVID green rooms because Jake and I, right after we got married, we got put on the Rachel ratio for to redo our first wedding dance.

I know it was super fun. And as we're leaving the stage to go after we'd done it, right? Yeah. Kate Hudson pops out of, I know.

And I was like, that was awesome of you guys. And we're like, what are you doing, Hudson? So I'm like, am I dating Kate Hudson? Yes.

So that's what I'm going, Michelle. That I was like, I'm glad we got to chase tell story because that was the number I think about head. I'm like, that was one of those I walk down. I'm like, she'll like to be caller.

Like, she wants to hang out again. She want to hang out. Yeah. And Raleigh North Carolina.

OK. Oh my god. OK, so let's talk about your actual book, shall we? Because this is number three.

Can you believe you have three books? Is it kind of mind blowing even for you? It's probably especially for me because the other day I had that thing where I said, well, I'm a writer. And I was like, I have written three books.

And maybe I'm so thin skinned as a lot of writers are. I'm very sensitive. I'm super thin skinned. We have significant feedback on your book.

Do you want to go through it now or should we? Because this chapter specifically is problematic. Go ahead. I'm always like putting a book out there.

And then I want to hide a little bit. And so this time I said to myself, well, maybe people will hate it and maybe they'll love it. But I'm now a writer. Like it's official to me in my brain.

Oh, because the three was three significant two or just for whatever. Yeah. For no reason, for nothing that makes any sense, it just felt like we'll not have a little collection. So it feels like this really is not a fluke.

But it's what I am. Does your family agree? Do they walk around and go, huh? They've always been so supportive.

OK. They're the nicest people. And they, like my kids, my kids are 21 and 23. So they will go out and go into a bookstore and find my book and take a picture with it.

So they get nicer? OK. We do actually get nicer. That's we're going to hold you to that.

We are. Wait, I love on your speaking of your kids. I was reading the what's this called? This part of it?

The bio book on the flop. Very professional. It's very professional. The flop Jack.

The book flap. Flap Jack. That's a pancake. It's delicious.

Thank you. And it says, yeah, you have a delicious flap Jack for your book. And it says, Michelle's kids mostly live elsewhere now, which I thought was such a cute way to put that. Well, one's a senior in college.

I still get to come home for breaks and things like that. But my daughter lives in Texas, except for holidays. So that's so crazy. Wow.

Yes, you're real. So congrats. You're finally a real author. Number three did it.

You're a real boy. You're a real boy. Wait, what was that? Pinocchio reference.

Oh, got it. Sorry. No. Did the deep inhale you're going somewhere.

Oh, yeah, I was. But I was going to talk about you were going to. OK, wait. So I really liked Jill.

By the way, Jill, Dij, how long have you worked with her? I couldn't tell you, but probably since 2015, I'm guessing. Oh, for a while. Lile.

Jill is Michelle's PR company. Yeah, I'm saying for the people. OK, got it. Thank you.

Sorry. Were you playing the part of the listener? I was. Like, who's Jill?

I'm so confused. OK. So Jill is Michelle's. Jill takes PR is Michelle's PR company, right?

Is that the full name of it? Let's give her a shout. So I emailed her. We've been coordinating to get you on.

And I emailed her because I connected with her on LinkedIn. And I saw that she hasn't back-branded NBC also. And I was like, God, this world is so small. We know so many of the same people probably.

I think we just missed each other by like a year. But she was emailing me. And she was like, one of the funny things for you guys. It's very creaky.

She may not, but it's picking up in your mic. I'm sorry to everyone with me, Sifonia. This is Paige's first interview. I gave myself the creaky chair.

Sorry. I'm also fidgeting. That was a bad idea. So Jill's idea was for us to talk about the archetypes.

Archetypes. Archetypes. Archetypes. Archetypes.

Archetypes. You're the soft CH. Thank you. Wait, architect, but archetype.

Wow. Archetype. Archetype. Heartsy.

Hold on. Jake's not talking to me because I want to hear Michelle's say what? So it's a hard CH. So it's archetype.

Like, architect. Thank you. Yeah. I thought she was saying there were two different ones.

No, there's no arche type. You were saying arche with an S and an arche? Can you write your next book on middle-aged parents? Yes, you're not the first to ask.

Archetype. Okay. So that is where you break down eight different types of middle schoolers, right? Which is so fun to me because it feels like one of the quizzes you used to take when you would flip through like 17 magazine.

And I love a quiz that tells you what you are. So will you walk us through the arche types? I will. So for anyone listening who's like, what is this dumb word that they keep trying to say?

An arche type is like, is like a sort of universally true character. So like the wise old man who shares knowledge or like the wicked witch. So this is like a type. That's an archetype in literature.

So I came up based on interviewing all these families with all of their struggles that their kids have gone through. I sort of chunked them into eight different categories of types of kids. So we have the rebel who and their failures failure to follow the rules. We have the daredevil and that's failure to take care of your body.

We have the misfits and that's actually in the book. It's really the academic misfits. So it's like failure to meet people's sort of common expectations of you. And then the ego.

So that's the kid who fails to show concern for other people. They're just thinking about themselves all the time. Why did you look at me? No, no, I just we I think we both know we have one of those.

Oh, yes. Yeah. Everybody has one of these at one times. Sometimes you're like my kid is three of these at one.

You pass through archetypes. Okay. Yeah, you absolutely can jump around because you changed so much while you're going out. So then we have the loner.

So failure to connect with their peers, the sensitive one, failure to be able to handle their feelings. It's just too much. They're so emotional all the time. The black sheep is failure to get along with their family.

They just feel like their family all gets along and they're the oddball in the family. I was interested by that one because it's interesting you make the distinction with family now with friends, huh? So because the black sheep can have a group of friends, but for whatever reason, they just feel a disconnect with their family at that stage. Yeah, I think they often are popular and likeable and have a great group of friends, but they are butting heads.

They feel like their family is cohesive and they're the kid out. And then the last one is the bench warmer and that's the kid who just has failure to believe in themselves. They just are like, you know, I'll just watch you guys play. I'm not good enough.

Oh, yeah. Wow. I know. They all feel like heartbreaking archetypes.

Right? When you hear about it, so I'm glad that you're framing it as their temporary. They're all temporary. They can change from time to time.

And your whole definition of failure is a sort of reframed look at that too, right? That's right. So it's so we went through such a battle naming this book, not battle, but like there were many debates around the publishing table and with salespeople and with editors and a lot of parents were uncomfortable with the word failure. And I understand why and particularly with having a book on the bedside that might say like, oh, my.

Failure. Right. And so we call them setbacks on the cover of the book and then the tagline involves failure. But basically the way I define it is that it's an experience that leaves a kid feeling disconnected, maybe unlovable, maybe unaccepted, you know, overly confused.

So we all know we've all been there, right? And our kids are going to be there too. So really normalizing the idea that we all feel like failures at one point. Mm hmm.

Which one do you think you guys were Michelle? Which do you think I was a combination? I was the sensitive one, just super anxious kid, a lot of feelings. And I was the rebel.

I broke a ton of rules. Me too. I'm not a rule follower. Wait a minute.

How does that? I feel like the way Michelle answered that though. Means she was way more rebel than you. I know.

I know. Yeah. Would you like break the rules and cry? Like what was your sense of what?

I would cry and break the rules. Like what kind of rules were you? I don't know how unfair things were. And then just go do what I wanted to do.

I was a rebellious teenager in part because there was some conflict at my house and there was also like I had a very strict step up who I love. I call him my dad and I credit him in all my books for a lot of great things in my life, but he was very strict. And so I was like, I really want to go to this party. I'm going to lie about where I'm going and say I'm spending my night at a friend's house and that kind of thing.

Okay. So I had the exact same thing. So I don't know when he entered the picture for you. So for me, it was like five, six, I should know.

Or I think you were four. How do I know? No, it was a four. No.

No. They started dating when you were four and I think they were when you were six. Yeah. So very, very similar to the point where like people didn't want to come over because they knew that he was strict.

Yeah. Yep. I didn't want to have people. But I talked about everything and I was a rule follower in a rule follower and told them everything told them where I was going.

What happened because my mom was a clinical nurse specialist. So she was all about unpacking feelings. So I had she was strict-ish too, but it was definitely him. And yeah.

So wow. Interesting. Yeah. So I was for sure the sensitive one, but then like a switch flipped.

But I don't know if I'm any of the first three because I feel like the first three that you said are more like air quoting here, like positive and then the next five or more like, you know, I don't know, setback-ish. No. Yeah. It depends on how you look at it.

You know, the examples in the book, I mean, like the Daredevil that's not me book. That's a story of that's not taking care of your body. That could look like, you know, I'm skateboarding without a helmet or I'm binge drinking. So it can range the degree to which you don't take care of yourself.

I will say that though I was the rebel early on in life. I can hardly break a rule now. Really? Wow.

Probably anxiety probably just sort of like, well, first of all, I left home early and then I went to college at age 17 and didn't really look back. So I had a ton of freedom after that. I didn't need to break any rules. But then I just became a nervous Nelly.

So it's interesting how different people interpret rule breaker too. Yeah, because in some ways, I don't know. I'm trying to think back like I've never you always say he gets annoyed with me because I'm not a rule follower in the sense of like, I don't know. I'll I'll take a risk where we park or I'll you know what I mean or I'll.

Oh gosh, does that give you anxiety? I would never. Oh, never. No, Michelle never.

So actually right where I'm going. How are you flying? Oh, I'm not. Okay.

Oh, I know. I'm a nervous flyer. I'm a nervous flyer and let me tell you what I do before I get on a plane. I do a fantasy draft where I look around.

This is a good distraction for me. Yeah. And I'm like, who if things go to shit, who am I to look to here? Is there?

Don't look at me. No, okay. I'm looking to him. Is there someone who looks like they're in the medical profession?

I'm looking at her drawing on my team. So Michelle, do you do this? Do you look at the weather app a week before your flight? Oh, yes.

Yes. And you need to do this. They come on every flight to tell you there's going to be terrible. Don't leave Michelle.

Don't you love that because then you go, okay, when it happens, you go, they knew this was happening. You don't go, oh my God, we just hit it like we're going down. We're no one saw that coming and we're going down. We both know if Michelle and I are being real with each other, we look at you.

We know it's not going down. Oh, I used to. I took a flight yesterday, California to North Carolina. 80% of the flight had a very mild chop, but like to the point where everybody else in the flight is like completely going about their business.

I was miserable for 80% of the flight. But don't you look around. I like Michelle the way you look around before you get on. I look around during.

And I'm like, I love a casual reader, like a person who is not interested. I don't care. I just look at them and I'm like, oh, they are not. It pisses me off.

Oh, I love it. Stop casually reading unless it's not been here. But doesn't it make you think like they're not worried? So I should be worried.

I am. I have a million techniques to try. I mean, everything from like I've done tapping on my arms to try. You know, there's some theories about that.

But really what I'll tell you is there's a great book. I'm going to send you afterwards. I can help you know what I do. Yeah, it's really.

Yeah, it's really. Yeah, it's book. You're going to hype this book up. But like really.

I'm still waiting for it to kick in on me. I go if I'm watching movies or on my email, whatever, I put on like a mix that I know was going to be music I like, close my eyes and I just leave my head back and everybody tries to take it's fine. So I know I know it's fine. I know it's fine.

Give me a second. You're in your mind palace and I get out of it. It gets me through. Wow.

We completely. You were your rebel. No, I was just going to say so it's been really great talking with you about your book on flying. I think I'm opening up to the page where you have them all written down.

So I can make sure I say the wrong. So maybe sensitive and. You not you. You're rebel.

You're rebel. I think I'm a rebel. But not like I was very I was also very like. I went to youth group and I was very into the whole like church rules of like you don't you know drink before you don't have sex before you get married and you don't like like I loved the whole you know, a whole year.

The now feeling which I look back now. I was a jerk but but I rules like okay back to flying for a second if they say group it's group five's turn and I'm group nine. I'm like walking with group. You're not paying.

Oh my God. Look at Michelle Michelle's cover face. Wait. I legitimate Michelle.

I did not know that you jump for. No for I tip. I usually a group five and I will often go with group four if they're if they're near if they're lingering like they're they're you know we're back on flying Michelle is furiously not what I signed up for. That's what I'm doing by rule break.

Okay. Stupid rules. I'm just doing. Now I'm too scared.

So what do you so I was thinking about this the other day to when we were talking about just having you on and I was remembering back to like the junior high days I forget what I was listening to but they said the time that you're kind of deciding like which one of these am I like what group am I going to be a part of and I remember for me school dances were a big thing for that like I would be like am I a head banger or am I a rapper like I'm clearly not a rapper. That's not what we would say. That's what we are. They were like groups do you want the hip hop on or do you want the head banger and I remember being like I really like that but I like that but dang if they play I eat like I am on the dance floor and it felt like you had to kind of choose which identity you're going to take which archetype you're not in any way.

You could also try having a rhythm which was my secret. Oh boy. Then you just don't go out and dance. At all.

Wait is that the sweet. So you have a little bench warmly new. Oh. Total.

Total bench warm. I thought it. Total bench warm. I have a lot of lame ones and then one cool.

Okay. You called him lame. Earlier I was like five I think or not positive. They're set back.

You're like lame. These are five lame ones. What do you think about not dancing at all those things? Yeah.

That was my only school dances for me where I was like a bench warmer until a school dance because I was like the girl that would like I went to Catholic high school for starting in ninth grade and we would have dressed down days and all the girls would look so cute and they would know how to do their hair and makeup and I would come in sweatpants. I was like sweet. We get to be comfortable. I think everybody was just like who is this loser.

I also didn't know anyone there. I went for I came from public school transferred to to private school and then school dances would come along in both middle school and high school and I remember those always being a child. I was like a check box for me. People kind of went oh okay because I actually I do have a little rhythm and it would be a way for people to kind of be like oh this person like for you it was when people found out you were funny.

You said right in middle school or high school. Yeah. I think it was also I found that I was funny. Yeah I wasn't quite sure.

That's true. That's really good. Yeah. No seventh grade.

Oh my good. Yeah. I just am now coming out of my shell. What about for you Michelle?

When did you when you feel like you kind of switched. So two things happen to me. One is in ninth grade. I tried out for the school musical.

So you can't dance by a good thing. And our school musicals were a big deal. Like I went to school in Cambridge Massachusetts and it was right by MIT and MIT would come over and build our sets and they were like super engineering. Oh my gosh.

This is real. Productions. Yeah. So I tried out and I was one of four freshmen to make the musical and when that happened I started walking around differently.

I was like making eye contact with people like I wonder if they know that I'm a girl. The musical and that changed like the whole trajectory of high school for me because I started to believe in myself. Wow. Yeah.

Would you like stare at people as they walk by like do you do you know. I don't know how far. Yeah. One of four freshmen you probably should do that.

Oh, are we going to first period of second period? Who knows? I don't know. That was exactly what it was.

You must be a musical. Wow. Can I ask you? Are you a four freshman on the musical team?

I don't know. I'm going to put on my musical uniform. Well, thank you so much for talking to me. I mean dramatic eye contact with me.

We just had a moment like this with our oldest actually Michelle. He's just he's a freshman in high school which I know is outside of middle school but he was a middle schooler a second ago. This book is for all the way through age 18. Oh, that's right.

That's right. That's right. And he is a kicker on the football team and has been on the JV team and yesterday one of the kickers the senior kicker is hurt and they called him up in second period. They called him in office and said I'm going to have you dressed and I just in case like you're not going to play but just in case and long story short the kid's back really was not feeling good.

So Ford kicked in his first varsity game ever. He was a freshman and as sweet as it was for us and his tick tick was on a flight. So I was you know. You're by the way full on HIP of violation.

You're specific to his back. You just announced that he's got. Oh, it's not. No, it's not.

Yeah, whatever. Rebel. I break those rules. But my point as fun as it was for us and we were sitting with like you know people parents who are really cool and everybody was so excited for each other.

But today we've been talking about how hearing like the kids texting each other his teammates being like did you guys hear Ford went to I know that speaks so highly of those kids that group of kids they can be excited for one of their own. I think it made Ford feel really good of course to know that his buddies were excited for him and it was just a good kind of like you know especially as a kicker you don't get a whole lot of respect on a football team and he knows that we joke with him about that so he can kind of roll but he was it made him feel really good at maybe appreciate those kids and their parents so much for being like hey like really encourage Ford it was just such a nice. It's so validated. Yes.

He's the one with you though. Yeah. He doesn't need encouragement to elect you. So why don't we only get you for a little bit of time.

We're both in marketing and so like the book we've read your other books. I mean what's cool is you've got the marketing piece on the bottom of this one author of 14 talks by each 14 obviously as a marketing myself like love that you talked a little bit about the fight over failure and like it's funny that's where my brain was like whoo. So like are you frustrated? Do you wish failure was on the cover of this book?

It's not that we wish it were on the cover. I think I just it's hard to convince parents that they should want their kid to screw up and like maybe I should have names the book you should want your kid to screw up. You know it's hard to fit everything into a title but my I don't really have frustration over it. I'm also into marketing and I'm sort of fascinated about like the the spin of it all but really for me really what I learned in researching and writing this book is that failure is the place kids need to be to begin to cross the threshold into adulthood.

So if things are really really easy all the time it doesn't make for becoming a good adult and if things are so hard that they become traumatic it also doesn't make for becoming a good adult but there's a sort of a sweet spot a center lane where things are hard enough and uncomfortable enough periodically that kids have to learn how to cope with it. They have to develop resiliency and coping skills and so they face plant they send a text in a group that is obnoxious and people sort of turn on them or they post something to social media that's really embarrassing and they have to retract it or they cheat on a test and get caught or whatever it is whatever way that they go through a fairly public failure of some sort and actually become the stepping stone to learning a ton about themselves and becoming really good adults if we react in the right way and don't they can go towards a traumatic experience. That was really good because you hit on like some real examples there too. Do you write a book?

Do you love what's your favorite part? You know you sit here in the market and you like the research part? Yeah, that's a writing part. Are you like sitting with like licensed professionals on pieces?

Like how does it work? So I love the actual word play. I love that. I love being like how are the words going to come together in this moment?

I have a thought in my head and it feels to get a little bit like out of body and artistic almost like if you were watching someone paint and they were like I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm just oh it's a whatever and then it's very clear what it is. It feels that way like it's really loosey goosey and then the words come together and like I love that. So that's a fun experience for me.

I also love the research and I love just kind of playing with it. It's very playful for me. So kind of just playing with the construction of it all. Did you are you techy?

Are you leaning into the AI form of research? No. No, I'm not techy. My husband is techy and he loves AI and in fact the only thing we use AI for this book is when it was all done and published and coming out.

I said I'm having a hard time remembering the eight architects when I put on the spot. It's like it's hard. That's exactly what I asked you. Yeah, seriously I saw you go down Michelle.

Yeah, you looked up there it is. Yep. She had a cheat sheet. I have to think of them all around.

And he was I said, can you put into AI to come up with like a mnemonic device like we used to have for the planet. So the nose on his throat. And so he did that for me which worked for like a week and then it slipped out of my brain again. So that seems like a big ratio.

I saw your kids names on that sheet too. Is everything okay? Thanks John. Yeah, no, I'll take it.

Oh my God, you are so just refreshingly every time I talk to you. I'm reminded of how much I enjoy your company and how glad I we should write another book so we can interview again. Well, you. I'd love to.

Thank you for asking. You're like, it'll be three years. Thank you very much. I'd love to share anything else that you want to be sure people know about or anything that you do want people to know you have coming up.

Oh, that's great. I would like people to come to Instagram and find me there. So it's just my full name, Michelle. I've been doing lots of parenting advice there, free tidbits for you.

There's one that went out today about what to do when you feel like your daughter is dressing sort of provocatively looking older than she is how to handle it. So I'd love to send people there and I would love for people to check out the book. You can get it anywhere you buy books. And the book is eight setbacks that can make a child a success and it's I could I see a R.D.

Can I sneak in one more question where we go? And I'm almost positive. I asked you this the last time we talked. Like can you go anywhere in your friend group and not have parents ask you like what do you think my daughter is dressing provocatively my son is dressing provocatively whatever it is are you like the friend like helper now.

Well our kids have a job so less so so I like I'm pretty free right now. So you don't have friends with us as what you're saying. Right. So France hair is really we want him to cut it and so.

Okay. What is he have that? Oh my gosh yes stepdad's flow look at us. We're on the same page here.

Fear of flying. Yeah. All right. Very cool.

You're the best Michelle. Oh yeah. Thanks for listening y'all for past episodes and more visit jakeandpage.com or get all up in iTunes or wherever you get your podcast with your clients self sitting on your fine couch. Talk to you next time.

Yeah. I'll see. Yeah. Yeah.