This is an ABC podcast. Hi, I'm Brett Kirk. I'm the former captain of the City Swans AFL team, which is now where I work as an assistant coach. I've been using mindfulness for years now, as a training technique, on the field, as a tool for life, and in mindfully, I'm going to get you on board too.
I've teamed up with Smiling Mind, who are experts in mindfulness, to bring you practical tips on how you can get more out of your life and create a calmer home and happier kids. And in this series, we're heading to a place where I've spent a fair bit of time. Ladies and gentlemen, the kick the centre wing of Kirk, Max and Mark, the sporting arena. And this is where mindfulness and I first met.
Mindfulness is becoming massive in sport. The mental side of the game is becoming really important, and that's why lots of athletes are starting to swear by it. It's all about staying in the moment. You're not worried about the outcome, you're just in it playing the game.
And here's the thing, right? Anyone playing sport can use it to get better. Your kids playing junior sport, weekend warriors, runners. If you're doing Pilates, it can help.
You don't have to take my word for it though, because in this episode of Mindfully, you're getting some tips from some absolute legends. Nathan Vife, superstar of the AFL. He's towards the centre wing, five, it's the fire and he takes a beauty. Current Australian cricket coach, Justin Langer.
We'll start. Moving on to his club, you get a peek. And two-time Olympian, multiple BMX, mountain bike, world champ, Caroline Buchanan. She's like a Wonder Woman.
Let's start with Australian former cricketer and the current coach of the Australian cricket team. Justin Langer, thanks for being on Mindfully. That's a pleasure, mate. We connected quite a few years ago over in Frio, and what struck me straight off the bat was you are really passionate advocate of mindfulness and meditation.
I am here in 1993. I've just been playing Test cricket for the first time for Australia. I was a young guy trying so hard. The harder I was trying, the worse I was getting.
And in the last Test match against New Zealand, the guy called John Wright came up to me and he goes, oh, young fella, I've been watching you closely. I think you're trying really hard. I recommend you try and learn Trent and dental meditation. And I looked at him.
I had no idea what he was talking about. But as things turned out, I got dropped from the Australian cricket team after five Test matches, came home, you can imagine. I can hardly see past the end of my nose. I was actually disappointed.
The dream I had for so long had been taken away, I guess. I was sitting at the dinner table at the moment, I was at a round glass table with the Western Australian newspaper and they were in a big advertisement, learned Trent and dental meditation. So I looked up and got a Derek and I learned Trent and dental meditation. And I've meditated pretty much every single day since.
So that's a long time to be meditating. But it's certainly powerful. I've had a huge impact on my life, I think physically and mentally. How did it actually help you perform as did you think?
Well, certainly in cricket. The most important thing in cricket is concentration and being able to switch on to what the most important thing at the time is, which is seeing the ball out of the bowl of hands. And what happens is often you get caught up in the past, what happened in the ball before, or the two balls before, or a week before with form. And what could happen, you know, starting to get a hundred thing about getting out, and think about what someone has just said to you.
But actually all that matters is the ball, and then you meditate. And there's so many thoughts go through your mind. If you keep coming back to a mantra or your breath, it's a great way to learn about concentration. So what was your practice as a player?
Would you use it before you go out and bat, or would you use it the night before, or would you just key into a certain time or there was morning or night that you'd jump into your practice? No, no, every day, yeah. Every morning, I'm now 47-year-old, not a 23-year-old aspiring cricket. I got up early this morning, sat, I've got a cup of brilliant abs on my phone, which give me a little zen timer, and I have 20 minutes in the morning.
And when I'm really the last month, actually, since I've been back from England with the Australian cricket team, I also do it just for dinner as well for 20 minutes. So it's so powerful, Bret, as you know. Back then, as a player, I just helped me relax a bit. I'm trained to be a bit from my concentration to improve, playing with the Australian cricket team.
There's a lot of time that everyone else's time. They're 20 minutes every morning, or 20 minutes the age is my time, and it's almost like medicine, to be honest. Justin, what about for the guy, the girl who plays cricket on a Saturday, or plays a game on a Saturday? Do you think it's something they can continue to help with their performance and other side of their life?
Classic, of course. You know, anyone who plays any form of hoodie on the weekend, they don't need to be a Sydney Swanner or West Coast Eagle. It's their AFL Grand Final, and I love it. It's just a bit cricket.
You might play fifth grade or seventh grade on a Saturday. You do it, that's your test match. You're playing a test match every weekend. That's what you do.
So I'd recommend it to everyone, because it might just help them be that little bit better. I mean, you have a little bit better performance. Yeah, it's just being the best you, eh? Oh, 100%.
You're on your own. It's like, if you have a day when you get 20 kicks, it doesn't matter whether you're playing AFL, or you're playing Z and grade with your mates down at the local park. If you get 20 kicks rather than five kicks, you've got a bigger smile on your face. How many of you?
Nothing out there smiling minds for you. It puts bigger smiles on your face. What happened with that before Australia, if more people were smiling? Mindfully.
Our next guest, Nathan Fife is a dual Australian, with a brand low hanging from his manor piece. He's a superstar of the game. Nathan, I've heard it, and I'm sure you have as well, that that physical bucket is full. Where do you see, and how do you see the mental side of the game being so important?
Yeah, I think you touched on it there. When you come into the competition at 18, 19 years old, most of the improvements can quickly be made physically. In your size, your speed, strength, learning the game plan. The mental side of the game comes once those crafts have almost been mastered.
And early days for me, it was about linking it directly to performance. What else can I do that's going to help me perform better? But with the real unlocking of all the value came, was once I started to link it to a greater purpose in life and having a greater awareness of myself and how I interact and engage with other people in the world around me. I remember early on, though, that you weren't really sure about your stuff, mindfulness meditation.
Is this really for me? Absolutely. There's language everywhere everyone wants to tell you about the yoga retreats or their spiritual journeys. As a country kid from a pretty humble background, I was quick to almost judge the language that I was hearing about this stuff.
Was it real? Was it tangible? How could it actually help me? So it took a while to break down that stigma, that barrier of what is this and why is it beneficial?
And so where is that taking you? What does your practice look like? Most morning I'll start with some form of ritual, whether it's go to the beach or sit in front of my fire or something that just quickly realigns me and welcomes me into the day, but starts by picking my awareness so that I just flow into each day as it comes. So I have some structure to it.
But most of my meditation I find I do at night, generally between six and nine p.m. I sit in a quiet place in my room or my hotel or wherever I am around the country and I'll listen to at the moment I'll listen to it Tibetan singing hymns or the singing bowls. So I stand at mantra, time and tations, I quiet like those ones and often just stay just a focus on the breathing, stillness type meditation which can go from five minutes to 35 minutes anywhere in that space. So you're saying you've found a space that works for you and you can be in that space for as long as you need to be?
Yeah, very much so I found that a rigid structure doesn't work for me. That doesn't surprise me. And when I try to force myself to do that, say do 10 minutes every night at this time, I found myself wrestling and just not comfortable in fighting it. So I like to have three or four different spanners in the toolbox that I can pull out as I need them and try and keep the practice fairly consistent but quite flexible.
And then say within a day if I find myself being a bit rattled or a bit edgy or a bit reactionary to what's going on, I can quickly go back to the toolbox and just grab a short burst out of maybe a five minute mantra to reset, get myself back into optimal capacity of functioning and that'll give me through the rest of the day. That's really cool. So if there's things that are going on pushing your buttons a bit, you're getting a bit agitated. You can jump in for five minutes and it resets you.
Yeah, absolutely. What about if we're talking about people that are involved in elite sport that are playing sport on a weekend? Is it something you think they could still use in that space? Definitely.
This is something that is tried and true and has a lot of data and science behind it showing that it works and everyone can do it. It doesn't take skill to do. It just takes that curiosity. And I think that the more that you can catch yourself through your everyday life, whether things are going good or badly and just intervene with a bit of awareness, meditation, stillness, whatever tool you have.
The more effectively you can function as a human. Mindfully, creating a karma and happier you. I can't wait for you to hear how a next guest uses mindfulness in her chosen sport. It's extreme.
Caroline Buchanan is going to come away with the gold medal and not only that, she's going to win a series title in one race. Caroline Buchanan is a two-time Olympian and an eight-time world champ BMX rider and she says mindfulness is a key practice in her sport too. Caroline, most people when they think of mindfulness, they're thinking yoga studio, dark room, sitting down, being very still. How did you find mindfulness on the BMX track?
Yeah, for me, when I was out on the BMX track and I had to pedal into a 13-meter jump going 60 kilometers an hour on a little BMX bike where I could potentially fall and knock myself out, break a leg. When the fear starts coming in, when that anxiety starts coming in, when your brain starts acknowledging that there is danger and it starts trying to protect yourself, that was when I really found that mindfulness was the best strategy for me just to be able to work through it and still do my job and progress as an athlete. That's really cool. So what you're saying is it's just not doing the physical thing to improve.
You're actually looking to work on your mind? Yeah, definitely. And when that side of your brain kicks in saying like, you know, you're a world champion, you shouldn't be scared of this jump. Like your biggest rival just jumped it in front of you or whatever it is.
For me, that's interesting slogan works well. It's quite neutral. It's my separation of knowing, you know, that's my mind and that's my body going into that protective mechanism. So as I would recognize that, I would visualize it and be like, okay, you know, that's interesting.
I'm feeling these emotions. It's trying to protect me. And I would pretend to put it in my back pocket and be like, we're in this together. We're pedaling into this pro section or downstart ramp or we're going to attack this new jump.
And then I would have that all in approach to have that mindfulness and understanding and acknowledge your thoughts and your emotions and like what you're going through instead of fighting it. That was what I did in the beginning and it didn't work. So I really found them, the mindfulness side of the practice within my training, but then also at home techniques as well that I really found worked in my just general life. Yeah.
So do you think it gives you an edge over your other competitors? Yeah, hugely because it's head to head. It's a battle and it can be that 1% difference at the end of the day, which can mean you're either a world champion or you're not or you're president in that Olympic final or you back in the back and seventh sort of fighting through. Mindfully with Brett Kirk.
Wow. She is a wonder woman. So there you have it. Three people at the top of their chosen sports using mindfulness to get an edge.
But mindfulness isn't just really athletes. It's for everyone. Dr. Addie Woodin is a mindfulness expert with smiling mind.
How do I start using mindfulness in my Saturday sport or Sunday sport or whenever you play sport? Good question. Whether you're elite or whether it's something you're doing just for the love of it. It's a practice that can help you zone into that flow feeling.
So basically trying to focus on what you're doing rather than thinking about what you're doing. I'll give you an example. I'm sure you would have, Brett, as an elite athlete, spent some time where you're trying to do something and instead of just focusing on what you're doing, you're actually thinking about what might happen. So you know, imagine kicking that footy and thinking, what if this goes the wrong direction or I don't kick that goal and your mind and your thinking takes over.
Yeah, sure. It happens a lot of times. The accuracy, you know, fell isn't that great. A lot of the times it's to do between the years rather than actually the physical thinking.
Yeah. And that's where mindfulness can really play a major role, I think, because what we do when we teach ourselves to be more mindful is actually learn how to really, really focus on what we're doing rather than enter into that world of thinking. We're not trying to completely get rid of our thoughts, but what we are trying to do is to be fully present. And so that means not thinking about the future, not predicting what's going to happen and not worrying about the past, not thinking, or last time I did this, I'd say, you know, stuff this up or I kicked it the wrong way or, you know, whatever.
It's actually focusing on how you feel right now in that present moment. And so what you try and do is to focus more on how your body feels and regulate your breathing. So bringing mindfulness into the sporting environment probably starts off the field, actually. What we recommend is actually spending some time off the field practicing mindfulness or meditation, and that is so that you can actually teach yourself how to focus on your body and your breathing.
And if you do it enough off the field, you'll actually learn how to bring it on to the field. So then when you're in the heat of the moment and you have to make a snap decision or you're lining up for a goal, you can actually tune into your body. And you're breathing more so than you're thinking. And hopefully that will help your performance.
Yeah, so talking about performance, what if we jump into work or at school and you have to give a presentation or a speech or something important to you? Do you think mindfulness will help in that space? Yes, I use it all the time. So mindfulness helps us self-regulate.
And one of the biggest things that overwhelms us, particularly if you have to give a public presentation or a talk, is that our physiology reacts, so our body reacts to that situation because we expect, or we think about it in a way that it's a bit of a threat. So what happens is that that stress response takes over our body. And it's like a red mist, exactly. And for some people, it can be really overwhelming and it can prevent them from doing things that they really want to do.
So practicing mindfulness actually helps you counteract that stress response. We know that when people practice mindfulness, their levels of cortisol are actually lower, so their stress hormones are lower. And actually I've read an article recently with an AIS basketball team, a wheelchair basketball team who tracked their practice of mindfulness over time and they measured their cortisol, so their stress hormone over time. And they found that practicing mindfulness really helped it reduce that cortisol and the impact of the cortisol on their performance.
So yeah, mindfulness helps us learn how to regulate our body and basically to take control over that stress response rather than feeling overwhelmed by stress. Alright, the four mindfulness sessions coming up. Can you give us some insight on those? So mindfulness can be used in a whole range of different ways.
We have meditations that you can do as a preparation, so it might be something that you take five or ten minutes to do before you go out onto the field. And that's designed to help you focus. There are meditations that are designed to manage stress, and so you're looking at in that heat at the moment, how do you self-regulate? And there are meditations designed to help you build teams and really look at how you support each other and build relationships.
And again, you can also use meditations as a team, so you can actually get together and do a meditation before a game or potentially after a game, and that actually helps build that bond between players. Dr. Adi Woodin from Smiling Mind, you have been a gem. Great advice as always.
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Alright, it's time to give it a go. There are four meditations here.
Give them a try, and you could be kicking goals in no time. You can find Mindfully in the ABC Listen App, or you can subscribe in iTunes or wherever else you get your podcasts from. Subscribe yourself and make sure you tell all your teammates. Mindfully is brought to you by the ABC Audio Studios, and the meditations have been created for you, yes, and that is you, by Smiling Mind.
The producer is Laura McCullough, and the executive producer is Justin Kelly. Catch you next time.