Mindy Kaling

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We are talking to Mindy Kaling, Mindy, Mogul. So good at so many things. And we get into it today. We talk about a lot of fun stuff. We talk about acapella groups.

We talk about whether or not we think we can deliver a baby. We talk about the fact that she has written more episodes of The Office than any other writer. And we get into her new show, Not Suitable for Work, which is on Now on Hulu. So lots of great stuff to talk about. And like always, we talk to someone who knows our guest and has a question for our guest.

And speaking of Not Suitable for Work, we have one of the stars from that show, Avantica joining us. Avantica, who you may know from the movie Musical of Mean Girls, a talented young woman who is here to, well, to grace our presence really. Avantica, is my audio working? Woo hoo hoo hoo! This episode is brought to you by Zoom.

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It's so good to see you. Congratulations on all the good stuff happening for you. And no surprise. Where are we talking to you from? I'm on set right now.

This is my makeup looks a little scary. Are you shooting not suitable for work right now? Is that the set that you're on? Can you imagine I'm soft launching season two? No.

This is not the set. I'm on. I'm on an undisclosed set. Oh, exciting. I've got Liberty to talk about.

You are busy, busy, busy. You know, we first met on the set of Moxie. Moxie. Yeah, how did we, how did we meet? Do you remember?

I don't remember the first initial meeting. I just have a really vivid memory of you, of like walking out of the classroom and seeing you and my dad, like holding hands and jumping up and down together, because he figured out you guys had the same birthday because he loves talking. Yes. Go on. Take a moment.

Bring your boat on your IDs. I was like, cool. Okay. I'm not everyone's getting along. Oh my God.

He's a September 16th. GIRL-E. Yes. Sadly, I've learned it's a very common September birthday. It's a very common, I guess.

Yeah. I guess people really get down. What does it say about it? Get down in the holidays, I guess. I guess we have more than we're full.

Well, I remember I directed a film for an Netflix called Moxie and it was filled with an incredible cast. And I remember you came and joined us for a two-brief scene, but a really fun day. And that's really cute that your dad and I bonded. I was reading up on you, Montesquieu, and you're so impressive in the stuff that you've done. And I didn't know that you did a lot of Bollywood when you were younger.

Yeah. It's how I started out. I think at the time I was 10 and it was not a safe bet at the time to be like, let's haul ass to LA and do this for the rest of your life. But India was a more prospective place if I wanted to be in the film industry. And so we moved there for like four years.

Oh, wow. We moved there for your career. Yeah. And then I left her job the day that I was born. She was like, I want to spend all my time with my daughter.

And she made a lot of sacrifices for me to be in this industry. So I'm very grateful that now she gets to watch a TV show. I hope she enjoys. And yeah, she really is the reason that I'm here, not to get all emo and everyone. I get seven in the morning for you.

No, no, no, I'm ready to cry anytime. Okay. So let's talk about your boss. So we're okay. So I'm interviewing Mindy Kaling today, whom I've known for a really long time.

And I'm really excited to talk to her because we have a lot of similar experiences and paths. And one of the things that I really want to talk to her about is like, what kind of boss is she? So the first time I ever met Mindy was in a parking lot that she took me to an LA because I had DM'd her when I was 17 being like, I love you so much. And she was like, okay, she was like, yeah, like she was like, let me have my assistant schedule lunch. I was like, oh my God, this is the most exciting thing happening right now.

And she took me to a French restaurant in a strip mall. And the seating is literally a parking lot. And my dad was like parked 300 feet away. I love that my dad's making a reappearing prints in every story. He's just always prox of it.

And watching the room right now. She took me to this French restaurant and was like, we need to try a scar dough if you haven't tried. All right. So my first like one on one experience with Mindy was like eating snails and her being this very, she was like, tell me about your career. She was like, what do you want in life?

And I think the one thing that always stood out to me about her and is one of her favorite qualities about her, but having worked on the set is that she's such a curious person. Like she, Mindy asks so many questions. She's just like down to gossip. She's down to gab. Like she knows about my love life.

She knows about all of our love lives. Like, Mindy's just a really fun person of your life. I really wish this time around that she like we don't, because we're always scared of when we're going to lose Mindy, because like Mindy's first priority are her kids and like her life outside. And so this season we're hoping that like we're going to get her claws on her and like, if we get renewed for next season, she won't let us go. But she's best.

I think whether Mindy knows it or like can really comprehend it or not, she's like a present figure in so many people's minds. That's like sort of, you know, like a lot of people view Mindy as a friend and a role model or an idol, whether it be Kelly Kapoor or any of the characters she's created. Yeah. And as an young Indian woman watching her, what did it mean to see her, you know, representing her life and on screen? Like what was that like as a young person?

I love to never have I ever. I mean, when never have I ever came out and trained that I was getting made, I was like, this is the most insane thing like I've ever seen in my life. I was in that. So I auditioned for Never Have I Ever and I was very young when I went out for it. But I remember being like in the waiting room looking at the sign and she for and being like, who are all the girls, like I want to be friends with all of them.

I just remember telling my mom, so can you please memorize the latter half and all memorize the pop pop and then we can go and like DM their mom's on Facebook because I really want to be friends with the industry. And we all know how well DMs work for you. Well, it really works. And my dream was perfect for that role. She did like so so incredible.

But all that to say like she is a very odd, incredible way of bringing together community and bringing together both off camera, but also behind the scenes as well. And I think watching her on screen meant the same thing as representation means to more anybody, which is that like, oh, people like me exist and people like me are deserving of being put on a big platform. Very cool. Okay. So we have we always do the same where we ask our guests a question from somebody who knows them, respects them, works with them, loves and adores them.

So what question do you have from Indy today? I'd like to know for someone who's accomplished so much like what her personal like Egot is, like what her four accomplishments that she wants to achieve in her life, like spanning four different categories. That's not a big question. I love that question. The big question you'll get to.

So wait, so the question is what like, which is like you've done so much. What more do you want to do? It's sort of like, like, I don't know, like a personally God, but you may like have four kids get a PhD spend like two years abroad, like, you know, donating money and like the fourth one is like, I want to skydide. Like it was like four things that you want to accomplish across like all sort of a breadth of categories. Yeah, I guess that is like, I'm sort of just like, she's just done, she's just done so much that I'm like, what more do you want?

I mean, it's an, I bet you'll have an answer. Also there is a part of me that's like, or just rest, rest now, darling. Right. Right. Personally God, put in a cryo chamber.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I love that.

And please tell your dad that I can't wait to, you know, psychically spend my birthday with him again. And it's so lovely to see you. And I know Mindy will be really happy that we talked to congratulations on your new show, Not Zoodle for Work on Hulu. And thank you so much for talking to us and for all the great things ahead for you. And I'm such a pleasure to see you again.

So good to see you too. You too. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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Mindy Kaling is here everybody. It took the red eye, which is, I just got to say, that's brutal. Isn't it funny how in my twenties it was the only way I would do things. I'd shoot the office and then Friday night I was like, take the red eye, get into it. I'd just be going back to Boston to see my parents.

Yeah. And my dad would pick me up at Logan at six o'clock. We'd go to McDonald's and I'd just sleep for four hours. Yes. And now I was just talking to our friend, Rashida Jones, about this.

It's the lack of recovery. It's like we can power through anything now. You know, like you just suck it up and power through, but it's there's no day to sleep after. There's no day to sleep. No.

So I just, I just don't line of code. Yeah, we're flying. I'm doing great. We're going to brag about our careers and then we're going to crash out in like a four or five minutes. But thank you for coming.

Thank you for being here. I'm so excited to be here. I know the member when we used to do David Letterman and the producers would be like, do not compliment him. He doesn't know what to do with it. That's right.

And you're like, oh, so it's like an insult to compliment a host. And then now I feel like for other shows too, I was like, don't do that. And then it feeds into the whole thing of like, it's not cool to compliment. It was very formative when that producer was like, don't compliment him. It's so true.

And you're right. Hostile act. And yet I love compliments as a performer. And if someone came into my show and was like, I love the show. I feel like, I love to give.

I love to get. What are we doing? I mean, like, what are we going to be like mean to each other? Like the world is on fire. Like, I love recognition.

Praise. So I just want to say that I love the show. Thank you. I watch it with my nanny. A little perfect.

And you too. At night, for the children are down. And it's like, it's such an intimate thing to watch in the dark. You're talking to like, Baron Holtz. Our buddy.

Our buddy. And then, and then have our little ads on you too. You know, I was when I was getting ready for today, first of all, congrats on being a mogul, straight up mogul. Mughal. Thank you.

You don't have to explain. You take it in. You are a mogul. Listen, listen, I'm interrupting you now. No, please.

Are you a mogul if you haven't invested in a restaurant or a sports team? That's a great question. Just because I want to accept. You know, I love that. We need to buy some kind of sports team.

You're right. Like, you know, like he owns Uber and Gisha House. But I'm driven to call more women geniuses and moguls and all that stuff because I think we just need to claim. Okay. So let's claim that for you today.

Thank you. And as a fellow Boston girl, I feel like when I was looking at, you know, kind of like looking at all the stuff you do and just thinking thematically about what to talk about today. I mean, we've had a lot of very similar paths you and I and not just because we were born, like, you know, in close proximity of each other. But we have really, I mean, we've been in this biz for a minute. And we've been together in a lot of it.

So it's very, very nice to see you and to have you here. I love being here and to even be someone that you would say is on a similar journey because you were a little ahead. Yes, I was like about 10 years older than you. For my generation, for anyone who came up in New York and to class with the UCB and everything, it was like you were the one doing it. Like you were the one succeeding with all the mean, unacceptable.

You know what I mean? Well, yeah, I mean, I think both you and I are used to and I want to talk about it. You and I are used to being one or the only woman in a room full of men a lot, especially in the beginning of our career and how that shaped us. Cambridge, Massachusetts, you're born and raised. Now Cambridge was always where smart people lived and they're smart parents.

Yes. Did you have, were you considered like a smart kid in school? I was always considered a bright kid. Yeah. When I was younger, I think I was like kind of silent and chubby and friendly.

And that was my vibe and not funny. But that was back. I don't know if you felt this way. That was back in the 80s when like girls weren't really supposed to be funny. Right.

And they were kind of good laughers. Good laughers. And if you were funny, you were trying to talk too much. It was kind of like you were problems or you were like disruptive. You're right.

Like the mischievous girls were the class clowns, which I look back now and they were just like feisty, interesting young women. But people thought they were kind of troublemakers. Totally. And then I school. Being Indian too.

So far from the, but also like I feel like I was still just like observing. I noticed that like it wasn't until I was like in middle school where I was like the class clowns were guys were just like kind of outrageous. They weren't really funny. Yeah. And so it was like a difference between someone who's like willing to like jump off the side of the school building.

And being someone who's funny. It was like all just like one thing. Totally. Everyone was examining it. Right.

I think so for my parents too. Like at that time being funny in school was so tied to like kind of like and again disruptive like non academic. Yeah. Like you have a good path if you're like a funny kid. That's what I mean.

Yeah. You're kind of like you're speaking out in class. You're kind of not paying attention. Yeah. And I bet you had the same thing.

I mean maybe even more because your parents you know moved to the US when you when they your mom was pregnant with you? Yes. The funny kid is the one that's often like the teacher is having to deal with having to do that. But they call you Mindy your nickname because from working Mindy. So you like that's a real it's like a message.

My parents have been here in the 70s and nobody in entertainment either side of the family. They did like love coming. Loved it. Like and I think for us too where it's like it wasn't like we're coming home and having like these you know always like these deep chats. Yeah.

We would just like sit in front of the TV and watch messy TV. They love Seinfeld. They love friends. They love the Cosby show. I don't know.

We all did at one point at one point. I get a one point. But I remember so distinctly when I was like 11 or 12 and I was of course like obsessed with Saturday in LA. Yeah. We would watch Chris Farley.

That was that your like house? Yes. It was like Sailor Chris Farley but honestly like from Dana Carvey to Bill Hader feels like the time which is like long span. Yeah. Yeah.

But we would see is it Matt Foley? Yeah. Matt Foley. Yeah. And that character Chris Farley's character down by the river.

Down by the river. Classic iconic character. Yeah. And he's like I think one of the funniest people of all time. And when you know we'd fall on the coffee table and I remember laughing at it so so much and showing it to my parents and reporting it.

And I remember my mom being very worried. And being like I was overweight and I think she was like oh. And so she was like I don't she once sat me down when I was like 14. I was like I don't want you to be like that. Oh that's really interesting.

Right. Like don't feel like you need to be a clown. And I think she thought that like okay my overweight daughter who's not fitting into like the mainstream of culture will feel like the way to be accepted and funny is to be like Chris Farley. Now the majesty of Chris Farley like I would only be so lucky as to have been like Chris Farley but as a girl in the mid 90s that was like not a great path. I love that we're talking about this because it's such an interesting point which is that young women especially in the late 80s and 90s they're way into comedy.

Like how you get in was really fraught in a way that men just did not have to worry about. They didn't have to worry about being physical and not seeming like it was putting people off. They didn't have to worry about like them being too sexualized and like they didn't worry about a ton of stuff. I think that much like you watching comedy at a young age and being like I don't know I want to live in this world. I don't know how to get into it.

And it was inhabited by really loud physical men for the most part. And then finding the women who I loved who I just kind of studied. But for me it was like okay where did they study? Where did these women start? I was like oh I'm going to Chicago.

I was going to go there. And when you were like did you do comedy at Dartmouth? Yeah. Did you improv? I did short form improv.

We all did. You know it's so funny the two things that brought me so much joy in college are so mortifying to me now but it's where I made so many great friends. I did short form improv with the dog day players at Dartmouth. And I was the dog day players still there? Dog day players are still there.

Incredible. And every so often like every couple of years I'm sure you feel as well like they'll come to LA and I'll meet them or I'll see them at Dartmouth when I go up and they're so cool now and they do long form and they also have that like studying thing where they see every episode of parks and the rest of development, Larry Sanders you know what I mean? I feel everything. A kinship to these people that are 25 years younger than me. But the difference is that like the guys in the true performance the women aren't afraid to be with them.

They are. They're all sort of activists. Like all the stuff that I struggled with back then to do because it wasn't appealing. Yeah. I wanted to be as like funny as Adam Sandler and do Humberman but I also wanted to boyfriend and to lose my virginity.

And in the late 90s it was like those two things were maybe like did not they see mutual exclusives. Oh yeah. Acapella group you were also in. I love an acapella group. Yes.

Yes. I was in an acapella group. And what song did you ever have a solo? I had one solo. And what was the song?

Nine to five by Dolly Parton. Yes. Saying it badly. You know what's nice is like I don't have a good voice but I have like I can like carry a tune. I think I have a good enough voice for a comedy person and it was like that nice thing about being in a group of women because they're like clearly one person should have all the solos but they're like no no no of course that's not nice like let me have a solo.

So we would I would say nine to five. Yeah. And that acapella group's name was Hey man it was called the rockappellas. Okay. I mean I just I love I love a pun.

Um it's called the rockappellas. At the time it was considered to be the coolest the coolest group if you were a woman at Dartmouth. Of course. And I mean I from my humble opinion it was I think acapella is very cool and also now I would say it is cool because this is such a bunch of bullshit like you're being so nice here but it's so lame. No no I disagree.

I don't here's why because even then I don't even mean in hindsight anyone who tries something yeah okay that's cool. I guess if you apply like to goals rule like we should all be putting ourselves out there and it is cool but um it's like a bunch of people being like should be do be bop I know and it's not I know it was the same thing. Like improv like you know short form improv and I again I want my formative years some of the all the boys I had crushes on in college were doing like short form improv terrible to go and yet it's only long form improv is cool though stand up is the coolest back then like if you were an improv or sketch group you'd have your like costumes and wigs or you'd be warming up and stuff like that.

Right. Acapella and improv both you have to warm up like usually outside. You're like zips up zapping. Yeah. That's not a cool.

And I see like we're cool but then I'd see like a stand up just literally like throw their cigarette on the ground with a leather jacket and go on stage and be like oh okay. After you left Dartmouth did you move to New York? I lived in New York for three years. Okay. And you had some fun I always love to ask people about their fun jobs.

So they're weird jobs you had some good weird jobs. I had some really good weird jobs. What were some weird jobs? The weirdest job I had was I was a PA crossing a verwich on Edward right psychic. Right.

And he would do readings in the room and be able to tell if someone had like a dead relative he was trying to contact them. What was weird about it? All that. I can't even ask. Yeah.

So now do you believe in do you have you ever had a psychic experience? Do you go to psychics? I am not I don't I don't go to psychics but I would. Same. And I've gotten as I've gotten older even though I know more I've gotten more superstitious than I used to be to quote Michael Scott.

I'm not superstitious but I'm a little sticious. I kind of feel like you know there's there's all different levels of like woo woo as Rachel D'Rachael would say like and whether or not you're open to it in your life. Yeah. And I'm like I'm gonna find a catch 22 where people are like you have to be really open to it for it to like you have to open your channel for it. I have them as a loser.

Astrological sign in the most loser number in the any realms. Wow. I love to because there's no loser number in the end you have to see your loser not what you think is a loser. I'm a cancer and I'm six. Well, but I would say six is very sharp like a six is like thank you Amy.

I but I have to go down much about sixes. Yeah, because it's you know, but it's the most common number it is. Yes. Yeah. I definitely think it's accurate.

Yeah. I feel seen I haven't been able to use it practically to make my life. I'm gonna send you some fun gifts or just however you like to say. I'm gonna send you some fun. Any of you have six gifts and gifts that you're gonna love.

I think they're a lot like the Harry Potter homes, you know, they're like everyone's like I'm a griff in your Harry Potter thing. Right. I'm a straight up Slytherin. Dude, that's cool. Slytherin is cool.

I wish I was a Slytherin. What are you? I want to be a Gryffindor. You are. Oh, I think I'm awful buff, which is all so fine.

I want to refute it, but listen. All right. See, I'll break back. Okay. But back to you.

Okay. So you had some interesting jobs, but I want to talk about Matt and Ben for a second because that I remember when that show for people they don't know what was Matt and Ben. Yes. Okay. So I was babysitting at the time and my friend was a substitute teacher and your public school substitute teacher, my friend Brenda.

And we were kind of miserable and I had applied to be a page at the NBC page program. I was certain I was gonna get it and then I didn't. And so we were just kind of like low level depressed with post 9-11 just like in jobs like why am I even in New York? Like I have no access to anything. And we started just improvising and I kind of adopted this character of like Ben Affleck and quotations as obviously we didn't know them at all.

And she did Matt Damon. And then we were like we'd just be doing these characters for like 10-15 minutes. And we were like, could we do something with this? Actually as opposed to just like entertaining ourselves. And all of our friends thought it was so stupid.

Yeah, great. And we just like let's write a little play about the creative process between friends and competition which has been interesting to me for a long, long time. And competition between friends who you dearly love each other but you're also looking out for yourself. And we were we were 21 or 22 writing about what we imagined Matt Damon and Ben Affleck were when they were 21, 22. It's so, like, I thought, you know if I was Matt Damon and Ben Affleck I'd be like, this is this is- Have you ever talked to them about it?

Matt Damon once and Ben Affleck a handful of times. And I think they think it's weird. This is a real person. They've been nothing but gracious. I would not be nice if someone was playing Mindy Cailion to play.

I would try to destroy them with my lawyers. My team of lawyers would descend upon them and crush them. But to their kind of Matt and Ben- But what if Ben played you? That would be pretty fun. I'd be, I'd try to crush them with my lawyers.

You're just a assistant, babe. Just sorry. I'm going to take off the theater door. I'm going to have good account of money from you. Yeah.

And it happened too. I remember even at the time I was like, this is radical because it was exactly, it was like two young women kind of assuming what would be like in the heads of like, you know, they were Matt and Ben were archetypes for just like young men like working together and figuring out life together. And I remember you guys making that show and I was like, this is radical. This is like, we just- Oh my God, that's so- It was. It was very cool.

Well, thank you for saying- I mean, it was so liberating to not have to worry about being pretty. Like we were just as men. Yeah. It was- Obviously we didn't invent camp but we got to discover how fun it was to just play men but really real. Yeah.

And it was great to just, we didn't have to worry about any of the things that our contemporaries were kind of worrying about because we directed it ourselves. And we went to like Fringe. Right? And we did it at the Fringe Festival and we got into the Fringe Festival. We won the Fringe Festival then it moved off-Broadway.

And that's when it started getting like attention. That's when like a couple celebrities came inside and that's how it moved to LA and how I got hired on the office. You go from Matt and Ben to basically being the only woman in a writer's room at the office. You are not the only woman in the only woman of color in an incredibly smart, hyper-talented and nice group of men but yes, but it still does your first job. Yeah.

I mean, you come from that world. It's competitive. And so I think that going into that room, like a lot of people now will be like, wow, I can't believe you got hired on the office. You were so young, you must feel so great. And you were like, looking, I mean, I look at the people who I was working with.

They had been working since they were 21 and had already had Emmys. So I still felt like I was behind. So I think, but I will say also, like I was such a workaholic. It helped that I was like friendless in Los Angeles and had no hobbies because I was just obsessed with work. I was dazzled by like Mike, BJ Paul, Lee, Christine, Greg, you know, and who wouldn't be.

I had never been in a writer's room and then I'm with these guys who are like even to this day consider some of the very best comedy writers than later. I mean, Isaac Berg, Jean Stippnitsky, like just as dazzling. And so I really wanted to impress them. I really wanted to date some of them. Right.

And I was varying degrees of successful in those— And when Kelly Kapoor was that written, like, how did you find out that you were going to be on the show? The way I got the part was, I think, BJ had written this episode called Diversity Day. And I think one of the funniest episodes in the office, ever. And Greg decided that it would be the second episode. And in order for it to be funny that like Michael Scott was offending a room of people, it wasn't as funny if it was just like all white, like you needed to be offending some people.

I was so lucky to be in the writers room and being Indian, because he was like, would you play someone that he offends? And then slaps him. And I was just content to be a comedy writer for the rest of my life. I was like, my dream come true. So to be on camera was outrageous.

The one thing I think is so groundbreaking about the office was that at that time, the odds, to be on a show where you didn't have to be a straightforwardly hot woman, the whole point is, and this is a real Greg Daniels thing, it's like, what is beautiful is what is real? And that wasn't very many shows. That's right. I also love, and I'm sure you feel this way too, actually maybe you don't, but I love being a meme. It makes me feel young.

Are you kidding me? It's my dream. When people send me, I'm like, I've actually been like, can I send people, meet my own memes? Oh, do it. It's such a mic drop.

It's too weird. But there's no higher compliment. I send people memes of Kelly saying, this day is bananas. All they want to Dave and Ike are from Stacey. Kelly Kapoor is, to me the definition of what the young people would say, like someone who has main character energy.

She is in her own world, her own show, and in that show. It's fun to be a nice, I think, to be a, you know, she is a tertiary character, but believes she's a main character. That's like a really nice. Yes. She has one line every three episodes.

Yeah. She's in her own very intense play and drama for ever. And then the show does, like, I would say any good character, like the show, like, you know, from writing, like you start to realize, like what people are starting to start to write to it, the show starts to realize, like, oh, what Kelly can do is, like, be in this kind of fierce competitive fantasy world that can allow us to, like, you shoot a lot of threes in that show because you, like, thank you. That character is able to go to some really sharp and funny places. Well, she thinks she's the hottest person at the office.

Yeah. She is. You know, and thinks, like, Ryan's a huge catch. And that she's, like, destined for, you know, fame. And so that is a fun, I mean, it's so fun to play, like, delusional characters.

Yeah. And then to be able to then be delusional in the midi project with a different character, it was fun. Okay, good. That's a good segue because you go from, I just want to say, you ended up writing more office episodes than anybody else. Thank you for saying that.

Okay, so everybody needs to know that. So all your office episodes that you love that everybody's watching every night, there's high probability that midi wrote it. You're saying it like my publicist was like, this is a talking point that needs to come across Amy. Maybe it's too kind of inside baseball, but the way you enter the business, you enter the business as a writer and then like, in that same time, you became a performer and you're also a producer and all those things have like different pros and cons, you really did do it for midi. You created, you were like, I'm going to write, create and star in the show and there's nothing harder.

That's so hard. And there's nothing more gratifying. Yeah. Like, I was so obsessed with it. I mean, and then coming from the office where I had been there for eight years, had like, a line every episode, you know, I was thinking about like recently, just like, And to be like the call sheet for people who don't know, but they might know is, you know, it's every day, it just announces the hierarchy of the production.

I love a call sheet so much. I could stare at it forever for people that don't, it's one piece of paper that tells you your entire day, week, month, and in many ways, your life, exactly right? It tells you who is number one, who is number two, who is number three, who is number four. It lists the importance and descending order of the people that are there. And so for years on that show, as is obvious, and should be like Steve is number one, like Michael Scott, and Kelly is number 11.

And it's not like, you know, to come, we just talked about it the first season when I was just lucky to have that first, you know, in episode two, being able to be in a scene with Steve, and to be able to be in SAG, and be able to actually do all that, that's huge. But eight years later, I was like, number 11 gets a little old. And I was like, I really want to see what it's like to literally just have more lines. And to be able to take on the thing of like being the comedy engine of a show. And I talked to Ike a lot about this, and I think you did this with Parks, and probably an SNL2, but like, it's a skill to be able to be the star of a sitcom, and come in and just be like, my engine is on from seven o'clock in the morning until we wrap.

And I am just like, I had to bring the best out of other people, wake them up pursuing them, kind of like a constant host. Yeah, yeah. And you're watching people leave all day. That was the other thing that was so sad. It was so sad.

You're just waving every one of your friends. And they're like, have a good weekend. You're like, you too, like it's just the saddest goodbye. But at the same time, I felt like the days were so much shorter than when I had one line at the office. Like the day flows by, because it's just like funny scene after funny scene, entire departments were there to help you do your job the best.

Yeah. And that was like such a joy, and it's so obvious to say this about being a star of your own show. But that was what I was longing for. And to assemble my own writing staff, so many of whom like Lang Fisher, Tracy, Wigfield, and Davis, who are a workman. Who are in a new show right now for seasons?

Yes. And so to be able to work with all these people that made me better, inspired me. And let's talk about our friend Ike, Mary Holtz, who was here, and who you met on that show. And Dave Stassen. Those guys are, I mean, which is, Ike is listening.

So we should say something nice about him. We should say something nice about him. Look at us making sure that the white guy is taking care of. I feel comfortable with seeing. Look at us.

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The other thing is that I love that you've spoken about with Mindy Project is like in many ways, it is a tribute to your mom. Yeah. Because your mom was an OBGYN. Yours, doctor? Doctor.

Yeah, sorry. OBGYN. Doctor. I'm training people at the huge position. I know I was a little too much.

I'm going to come to you now. Okay, so she wasn't a doctor doctor. No, she was a woman doctor. She was a woman doctor. Surely, surely.

She was a woman. Yeah, no. But your character was kind of a tribute to her. And your mom, can you speak a little bit about your mom? You spoke to speak about her all the time.

And I just... I love talking about my mom. So the character on the Mindy Project, she couldn't have been more different than my mom's personality. But I loved the world of playing an OBGYN. My mom's had such a great personality because she spent her entire day with women, telling who told her the most personal things about their love lives and reproductive hopes and just everything and all their problems.

It's such a personal relationship. And to have a world like that, it was like honestly some of it was laziness. I didn't have to research that much. I just understood what the office looked like and what the nurses were like. But that was that.

I also think it's nice for a lead character on a show, particularly when the character is so out there and selfish and flawed to have such a selfless job. You know, helping when you were like inherently, she's a good person, even if all she says all day is that she wants to get married and get railed by her. You're like, okay, she's helping women through some of the hardest transitions of their lives. Do you feel like you could... After doing that, Joe, do you feel like you could deliver a baby?

Do you feel like I could deliver a baby? Do you feel like I could affect the confidence that could really put a woman at ease? Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I think this is a real stupid actor over-compensac.

I feel like I could fear it. I think you could. I've had three kids. I feel like I've watched in. Yeah, I feel like you could deliver a baby.

I think I have a problem where I think I can do things that I wouldn't be able to do. Like what? Deliver a baby. I feel like I could. I don't want to.

But I feel like part of me is like I could at least be enthusiastic about getting people to push. I think there's some parts that would freak me out a little bit. So when a lady back up. Yeah, we don't need to do that. You want to do it.

We're going to get somebody to come in. I can talk. I can do the delivery. I don't think I could do a C section. Like I have a, yeah, no C section.

Forget it. No, I'm not going to do that. You know what? I take it back. We shouldn't do it.

We shouldn't do it. We shouldn't be around anyone who is pregnant. Oh, and then before I move on to more TV stuff, I do want to talk about, we had a really fun trip one time you and I where we went to Cannes together for Inside Out. And it was, I've never been before or since. I've been back to Cannes.

It was really glamorous. It was very glamorous. It was the first time I'd ever been on that kind of like international like press tour like on the steps of the. I think about that press tour so much. I do.

One, it was so hot and sweaty. Yeah. Very hot and sweaty. Like we were always like in the beating sun. Yeah.

And like, but beautiful. Yes. But like always like I was sweating through my clothes constantly. And I remember this distinctly and maybe this is offensive that we would be doing like an international junket and unlike an American junket, it would be like the questions would be like, I don't know, maybe because of, I don't know, culturally it was just a. I was just saying, why are you, you are so fat smiling, but your face is not nice to look at your face is not nice.

Why do you think that people like to look at your face in America? A fat and smelling woman can be star. We've read you can, you have your own sitcom, but you are fat. You are obviously Hufflepuff and yet you believe you're good. You play joy, but you are not in your twenties.

Yes. And you didn't smile at me when I was asking you a question. So I don't find you joyful at all. And so, okay, remember you know that Javier Bardem clip when he's on a junket that has gone viral where someone's like, he was working with Penelope Cruz and he's a European journalist is like, so you work with your wife, you must be crazy to work with a woman like that you're married to most people would want to kill themselves if they had to do such a thing. And he's like, I find that very offensive.

And I was like, watch that. And I was like, oh, like, it's only like, I can never imagine sticking and being having a spine and an international question and being like, how dare you, sir? I was like, just laugh. I mean, I feel, uh, let me ask you, what are your generational pronouns? How do you identify?

Are you a millennial? Do you identify as millennial? Hey, this is a, this is a very sort topic for me. Okay. Because for a while, I was considered a zennial.

Okay. Which was it? Have you heard of the zennial zillennial zillennial zillennial zillennial? No, I don't, I'm, this is making you be a millennial. But I was like, Oh, thank God.

Because when I was growing up, like when I was like in middle schools, like the movie singles was out. Yeah. And I was like, that's to me, Gen X. That's Gen X. You know, Ben Stiller.

That's Gen X, right? Yeah. And then now the zennial went away. And now they're just like, people are just like, you're Gen X. Like I can, David, like, well, Gen X together.

That's not true. They're making themselves younger than they are. You have a lot of Gen X qualities. I will say, and I love Gen X. So I love Gen X too.

But you have, but you're 10 years younger. So you might be like millennial. So you're pointing out pleasing, like getting somebody's heart to please. I, I realize I have that with boomer men. It's a little like boss situation.

I'm just saying that, it's so resonates with me because I felt that way about Greg, Daniel's. Greg and like Conan. Yes. You know, and then obviously all the us and all people that were there when you were there, like I feel exactly the same way, but now I'm technically the same generation, which was breaking my heart. Yeah, that's a little weird.

But I do feel that way. We were the gatekeepers. We didn't talk about Conan. You were, you were, you did get that page job. I was an intern at Conan.

So I didn't, when I was still in college, I applied to be an intern at Conan. That's actually, that job is what made me thought that I maybe would get the page job. Yeah. Because those internships were considered hard to get. And that's where I first learned what comedy writers did.

Although like a variety show, comedy writer is like such a different job than like a set of comedy writer. And I actually think the personalities of a variety show, comedy writers, very different than a set of comedy writers. How is it different? I think that there's, well, I think of one as like a quintessentially New York job. Although of course there's variety shows out in the West Coast and one is like an L.A.

job. Yeah. I think they are both very funny, but there's like a more, this is not true, but this is the way I thought of it. Yeah. But like there was more of like a cerebral darker energy to a New York variety show writers, right?

Where it was like joke jokes, joke jokes, how do we get the best jokes, monologues, sketches, it's got to be like quick and funny. And then you're done if you live or die by hard jokes. And then the sitcom writers, which is like story and listening about the characters. And so as someone who wanted to be in the New York world, but was that was slammed, the door slammed shut in my face, I kind of came up in this other world. And so I always thought like, oh my God, that's so intimidating.

That's why I guess right on SNL, which is where I think it was the first time I met you. Okay. I was trying to remember the first time we met. Was it when you were guest writing it? I was guessing that 2005.

Yeah. And that was when I met you and Tina. And I remember this and I don't know why I remember the story and I'm not proud of it. I don't know why it would possibly come up with two women that I admire and just came up. I don't know, but we were somewhere and I was like, yeah, I just want to lose 30 pounds.

And the two of you stopped and were like, what? That is too much weight. And I remember I was so happy for like three weeks after that. I was like, wow, any antenna, don't think I'm a fat load. Like I was so nominny.

No, no, no, no, no. Even in the aunts, like you guys are like, what are you crazy? But I was thinking like, why would I have told that to them? That's so weird. I would say because if we're to get real, because that's how women talk to each other.

Is that I think it is. I think we all like, wait, watchers. It was because at the time there was a conversation about wait, watch. I think, you know, we were like, we just like everybody else were like constantly trying to figure out everybody's relationship to being on camera. Yes.

And I do think that for better or for worse, what women do for each other and to each other is they talk about their bodies to each other. Yeah. We are, we like, you know, it's one of the things I love so much and I'm sure you're the same way. Like I love about my people, friends is I can really say like, I'm feeling this way and that way. And it's kind of how we like say hello.

No, I mean, I think to be able to be with two of my heroes and have them acknowledge because you could have easily been like, we don't ever think about it. You're naturally thin. You're a heavy engine. Yeah. People like, I don't know what you mean.

I don't understand. I just, I think whatever I want, I mean, to you to say that, to that you weren't just like, we are naturally, then we eat whatever we want. You didn't, I think that that was a, I think a really, it was a kindness for you to acknowledge. Like, oh yeah, so I could, I could see that in my heroes. But it is really, it is really fascinating and nice that culture has changed so much.

It has, it has, it has, it has. And right? Because we're still asking people about their weight. We're still asking people about their bodies. I mean, I actually really try, I have a couple like rules that I never say out loud in this podcast.

I try not to talk about people's bodies. Because it's like, people's bodies are their own business. If you have the male cast of off campus here. Yeah. I just wanted to throw me against that bookshelf.

Yeah. And it flex and they'd be fine with, I know it's a fine line. You can't. Yeah. But you can't.

But you're good. It's good. It's good that you, it's good that you, okay, but this is a good segue into the, okay, because you have to, what is this? What is this? What is it?

What is it? What is it? What is it? Okay. Okay.

Yes. What you can't do. Yes. I'm really trying to get that I have a trilogy that I'm like Peter Jackson. You're a mogul.

You have a trilogy. I have a trilogy. Just like me. I mean, one of the things about being a mogul is you have to start talking like everything you did was like a perfect, you know, it's all part of a master plan that I have to embody that more. Yeah.

And then just like accidental, whatever's happening, whatever's happening, make it up on the side. This makes sense because this is the third in the installment. But you have made three TV shows. Never have I ever, um, sex as a college girl. Thank you.

And not to go for workplace. All three are like, I mean, they're very, very different. But what would you say is a unifying theme in all of them? I think I love writing for underdogs. Yeah.

And ambitious people and people with lots of big wants and needs both like romantically and professionally and who feel like they don't have access to it. And that's sort of, I think, the thing in common with all three of those shows. Yeah. A lot of horniness working on not suitable for work. I mean, this cast is, um, they're so funny.

They're so good. They're all none of them are unknown. They'd all have like a lot of success, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they were like super, super well known. Yeah. But well, Angus was in a very popular sketch troupe.

Elle Hunt was on that wonderful show Dickinson, Avantica was in Mean Girls. But this is just a way to have them all together. And they're super funny. They're super appealing. And I loved working with them.

Avantica is who we spoke to today to get the question for you. Really? And Avantica is, so we did a, you know, we do this in the beginning where we talk about our guests back. And I really want to speak to Avantica for a couple of reasons. One is she is like, you know, you, you are the example of what she watched growing up.

You were representation in real physical form. Somebody who wrote their own parts, who created their own stuff for themselves. And who also, like you said, like enjoy, like you enjoy being entertained. Your shows are not homework. No, I think I'm not writing shows for like television studies professors.

Do you know what I mean? Not that I don't think that's an important job and things, but I want to do something that's like when times are hard. That's right. You know, when like my mom was sick and we wanted to watch something, it's like we watch Modern Family. It was like, I want to watch something that's like legitimately so funny.

Yes. Yeah. And I like seeing people from love and I love like great costumes and doing something in the city. And I think the office where it has not those qualities, but it's super funny. But I do know what you're saying and I take it as a compliment.

And she spoke about being around you and like your curiosity and also just like your curiosity about other people's lives and young lives and like really like your support as a producer and as a person. And also, indeed, just what I think is so impressive about you is you feel like you're working within the system and you're also still a person like the rest of us, I guess. So it's like you are this mogul who also is like just along for the ride, like the rest of us. And I think you do it really, really well. Thank you.

And she speaks about that. And it's funny. Her question is so cute. It was like, what is your ego? Like she was like, what are four things that Mindy won?

Did I know I said that's too many things? That's so many things. I agree. Do you feel this way where if you see a movie, love or you listen to an album or you see a Broadway musical, you're kind of like, should I like try to write a musical or should I like I'll listen to it? I'll go to, I'll go to, I'll go, but which you're nailing.

So now you should do the next thing. I feel you. I see something. I'm like, should I try that? Yeah.

And I think that's another thing. And this is not creative, but like, I feel like my feed on Instagram is just always about how fleeting our time with our children is. It's just like, it's just like frightening post after frightening post about how like you have 18 summers with these people. I didn't know it was the last time I would pick him up. Exactly.

It's like these haunting things about these wonderful children that I love. And so I really want to be able to hang with them and be with them in a real way where they look back at it and they're like, how was mom able to do that? But then also do these other, be there for us so much of the time. And I know I'll fail, but like I really want to try to be there. My mom really set the bar.

She was so busy. Like we missed Thanksgiving because she was delivering a baby. She wasn't there for the school play. And I was the perfect match for her as a daughter because I just thought it was like glamorous. And I was like, wow, mom's like really doing a lot.

But I have three kids. I don't know that they're going to think maybe one of them will be that way and the other two won't. So I got to really, I got to really invest in the end. So that's the second thing. What else would I want to do?

I don't want to hold public office. No. No. I don't want to adopt like seven kids. I love the people who do that.

I can't three is enough. Three is a lot. I don't think I want to like teach at a college. I think about this. Okay.

I like to think about this future though. Like that you get to come in like I often think about, you know, like the next decade. Think about coming in like a beautiful sweater like Dartmouth, let's say. Yeah. Drive in at 10 o'clock in the morning.

You have your coffee. You know, you create the door creaks open and there's like 150 like kids staring at you and you start your class. Nobody gets to interrupt. You're done in an hour. You know, you write a book about it.

Then you're ready to move you about it. That's what I'm saying. I think that that's how that does sound good. Doesn't that sound good. You don't have to grade papers.

No papers. A little paper. Yeah. I like that. Or I also like when they you get to a certain age and then like TV shows just want like that kind of like decrepit grandom to come in.

You just say a couple lines and everyone's like laughing. They just like lift you onto a seat. Yeah. I want to get to the point where people are like she looks good. This has been so fun, Mindy.

Has it been? Yeah. I'm so sorry. I'm very angry. I'm so stressed.

I'm stressed. Tell me why. No, I just I love this so much. I've been very entertained. Okay.

I've been previous episodes and I just I'm just fast-wording to my nanny Jenny setting on the sofa. Yeah. No, she's gonna have. I mean, she's gonna be she's gonna be she's gonna be wrapped. Okay.

And and also my last question to you is what are you watching because I know you are like you're a pop culture consumer. Yeah. Who is making you laugh when you want to like, you know, I know for me it's hard for me to kind of watch comedy like it's like, what do you watch to check out to now laugh like feel like is it a video? Is it TikTok? Is it I'm not on tiktok for no real reason.

It's not like a decision. But I think it's tied to some way like productivity like I'm worried it would be too into it. And that's so true. But for me, the biggest thing that I'm into, I mean, I do like a lot of dramas, and like your friend Emily Spidey loved Burtur, but I think for me, I loved The Curse, is that's the right name, is the Nathan Fielder Show. And really strange and really, let's talk about it.

And Nathan Fielder, who is like, I think for people, my age, or women, he's a real heart-drob too. He's a millennial heart-drob. He's a millennial heart-drob. He's a millennial heart-drob. And I'm happy for him.

He's so funny and talented. With Emma Stone, I loved that show. That was a really good, weird show. Weird show. And I mean, it's honestly like, it's like, I like stuff.

Like I like all the things that you would expect. Like I love Abbott and I love Hacks. And I like all the dramas. Like who doesn't like the pit. It's like, I like those things.

I love it. It's such a delight to watch them and see people who are really good at their craft doing things. Yeah, you're able to enjoy still knowing, knowing how things work. You're able, like kind of like at the very beginning, when we started talking about it, which is like, you know how hard it is to make something good. Totally.

Mindy Kaling, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the red eye. Only for Amy Poehler. I'm so happy you could do this. Thank you so much for Amy.

Thank you, Amy. It was so good. Thanks everybody. Thank you so much, Mindy Kaling. You're always so honest and forthcoming and funny and it was really great to have you.

And you know, Mindy and I got into a lot of really interesting topics, including being a working mother and deciding to just do the things you love and try to as best you can avoid the things that you hate. And I have a strong feeling about that. I feel like in motherhood, there's things that you like, you love, you feel neutral about, and you really don't like to do. And if you can try to avoid the things that you really don't like to do, then the rest might come a little easier. So some people get stressed around, you know, bath time.

Some people don't want to go to the park. Some moms hate taking their kids to get shots. I mean, who loves that? But you know what I mean? Either way, I would just say, give yourself a break.

You're not supposed to love everything. And it doesn't make you a bad mom if you don't. Try to offload anything that you really, really, really have a hard time handling and don't ever feel guilty about it because God, we just really beat ourselves up and enough's enough, you know? So I guess that's my polar plunge today. I don't know.

I just am thinking about all the ways in which we make it harder for ourselves and our harder on ourselves. Let's try to take some lessons from this interview and do a better job this week. Do a better job of not doing a good job. OK, bye. Try Tim's new energy infusers in Invigorating Blue Raspberry and Pink Raspberry Mojito's Zero Sugar.

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