Mirror mirror

You're listening to the Wisps. It's Wasatch, investigative studies of paranormal stuff. Wait, no, it's Wasatch, investigates the science of paranormal... Wasatch, Wasatch, it's the Wisps, they're Wisps.

Listen, it's okay, it's the Wisps. Happy awesome, fun time, paranormal adventure show. Seriously, dude, you need to get a better name. I'm not kidding.

No, it's not time yet. It's time. It's time, I think we're past time. Is this the Wisps?

It is, if we're starting season four. Today is season four. Season four? Wow.

And by season we mean year. So, you live in four years? I know, right. No, kind of.

Four years in a sense, but we really have part of year one. And like, one episode of the year four. So technically we're like, year two and a half, but it's the start of year four. I'll read as a group.

As a podcast. Sure. Anyway, like I said, welcome to the Wisps show. I am your host, Castle.

Ew. Ooh, I can be sad. Castle piece of the bills. I do have different labs.

It's time to face the bills. To face the bills. To my right, we've got Tim the Stone Whisperer, AKA Beaker. What's happening?

To my left, we have Lurch. What's up? We have Silent Dawn. Hello.

We have got Deann. Hi, Ben Swalen, Cookie. Hey, Deann Dreyman's back. I tried Eilofremer.

And we've got Brandi AKA Peaches or Peaches AK Brandi. I don't know which, KA do we do that? Which track? It's Peaches AKA Peaches.

I don't care. It's just my bloody name. Anyway, welcome back. It is a new year.

This thing has hit so far up on the red on here. It's like clipping. I don't know how to affect this. We are broadcasting this live on the Facebook.

I'm not sure how to affect that. I just know this is our first time actually doing the MIVO with having hooked up to the soundboard. So we're actually getting a decent sound out of this. Everybody waving the MIVO?

Hi, MIVO. Everybody try really hard not to pick your nose. Why we record today? See, behind me we've got our Wall of Fame.

That's Elizabeth St. And Brian Kano and the Newmans. Which actually just left the studio more than a few minutes ago. We had our annual team meeting tonight where we inducted a few new members.

Namely, Mike Finley. Welcome, Mike. He's not here for it to say, hey, thanks guys. Thanks guys.

You better set up your share. Thanks, Josh. Good job, thanks. Thank you for coming in for Mike.

And we inducted David Warts. This is just like him. And I'm sure David would also say, thank you. Sounds just like Dave, too.

Matter of fact. So I've got a lot of you, but I should probably just put a hair on you because you're the only one that's gonna talk. Thanks, Tim. I'll assume that on you.

As we talked about, well, first off before we get going, Tim, do you want to talk about our sponsor for this particular episode? Yeah, our sponsor again this week is the Utah Medium. The Newsies. Shot and Michelle Newman.

The Newman's is. They were actually here. They were actually here. They participated in our team meeting and afterwards we put together some protection crystal sets for paranormal investigators.

So if you're looking at getting a paranormal investigating and you want to get out of stones, they've picked out what they've followed the best stones to start with for protection while you're on investigation. I would hit them up. You can find them at theutommedium.com or they're off Facebook, the Utah Medium. Which by the way, in the very near future, we will give you a new video.

We'll have a website where you can actually log on to that website and purchase some of their goods, packages, services. Also, there's a lot of this. Remember the small one? There's a lot of smudge spray here.

Let me vent whit this thing. Hold on. You know, this is what I kind of suck for those who are not watching it because I'm gonna be doing things like this. It'll encourage people to watch it.

Yeah. So if you can hear me, but you can't see what I'm doing, which is your lost people. Not too much. So by popular demand, several seasons ago and by several I think it was our first season.

It was two years ago. It was two years ago. We did an episode on mirrors. And we had several requests to revisit that episode with not crappy audio.

So we are gonna revisit that episode. And instead of trying to reproduce the episode, like write a script and try and do it work forward, which would be ridiculous. We're just gonna cover that topic again. We were all supposed to do research on mirrors and then we listened to that so we could kind of know what we talked about.

I did. Thanks, Dan, for being the only one that... I will have two and a half minutes of full research prior to this episode. It was more than a key layer.

I did some research too. Oh, good job. Yes, I'll do some research. Can I still from the back.

Alert is gonna talk about scrying. But before we do, let's talk about if we had any investigation since we last met since it's been a few weeks, I know Dan got a creepy advert from the DI. It wasn't creepy, it was just fine. It felt creepy.

It was heavy. Something about it was heavy and often... Is it all the stuff that they used to flutter with? What?

It's a wood. Oh, okay. I didn't see it because you deleted the picture. It's a fluffy wood.

I got my answer. I remember being selfish and not showing it to everybody. I was gonna bring it to Dan for now. So I mean, if it's what, that's probably why I was heavy.

Oh, shall we tell you? So tell us how you're elephant, Dan. So I like to go to the DI. If you don't know what the DI is, it's a thrift store.

It's like a savers or a salvation army. And we actually took a load of crap out of our garage and took it to the DI. And then we went back in about half of the back. But it's a kind of store that you go in and you don't...

Sometimes you leave with nothing, sometimes you spend a hundred bucks. Imagine a yard sale is a brick and mortar. Exactly. So you never know what you're gonna get.

Sometimes you go in and it's all crap and sometimes you go in and you can find some nice stuff. Anywho, there's this elephant. I really liked it. It kind of matched a frog that I already have.

Kinda antique, wooden, like a puppet, but wooden without strings, but the other jointed arms. And if you're not watching this, you're missing the body. It looked like it's fun, I was saying. Anyway, it had a heavy feel and I wasn't sure if it was it.

You know, when I was at the store or if it was just some stuff around it and got it home and it had a creepy look in its eye. So I posted, sent out a few texts and Newman said that it did have a croissant. He cleared it and it did feel happier. Now, Brandy says it was fine.

So does that mean one of them is fine? No, different mediums can feel different things. So whatever it had, Brandy didn't feel, Newman did. I mean, I like it staying for a little while that was gonna go on the trash, but we're good.

I've seen it. I would burn up a fire. It's ugly. I saw the picture.

That was the bad picture. You don't like anything. She picked a fire. She didn't like the teapot either.

The teapot went back to the eye. Yeah, it was an every teapot. It was. I think the lady just wanted me to take it home so she felt good then she could leave because she left a little while later and then I sent it to the eye again.

So anybody else have anything that's occurred since our last podcast that we wanted to have? Oh, you know, we forgot to touch back on what happened when I went down to the basement last time, the second time. We did, because people were complaining that we kind of left the head. Exactly.

Yeah, so I was thinking about that, but we needed to kind of re-address that. So without further ado, what happened to me in the basement the second time was absolutely mechanical as well. And it was really, the second time around it was pretty anti-climatic. Yes.

But you know, for those people that listened to that podcast last time, I never get scared on investigations, but I was that spooky. The only other time that I can think of is when we went to the Fort Douglas Museum and I was in the Navy room. The knife. I had my knife pulled out of my back pocket.

I've got it in my back pocket again. I was bending over. You're standing right there behind me, Peaches. Yep.

And for the rest of the night, I could sense its attachment to me and you confirm that. And it didn't scare me, but I just felt uncomfortable and I knew I'd be okay, but I just I really tried to kind of hide my fear in a way. But this incident of the family tree. That night you seemed a little more spooked out by the fact that there was a certain entity that liked the fact that you were talking latin.

So I was starting to following you around the eyes of the night. Yeah. I remember that. You're pretty creeped out until we sent a packing.

Exactly. Yeah. I remember I said in the line, I asked it, are you evil? And the response came through the spirit box in Latin saying I am evil.

And it wasn't just one. It was like three or four times. And I was like, oh crap. Yeah, that's not just a definite answer.

That's a definite answer multiple times. So that kind of spooked me a little bit that night. That was probably like two or three years ago. And then the family tree went downstairs, just kind of felt like my I had to prove some sort of machismo.

My coonies were feeling especially large. So went downstairs and just kind of jokingly I was like, oh, you know, you like to throw stones, I go and throw stones. And almost immediately like I hear a little pebble hit right over my shoulder and I just I like my stone shrink. And yeah, be like it right upstairs.

And you guys all saw the way I looked. I got your eyes. I have to turn my phone off because Deann sitting two seats away from his text. You want to go to the elephant?

I sent him to you. Yeah. Went back downstairs later on that night. And there was nothing.

I just didn't feel anything. Yeah, I felt like Lucy and whatever else is down there, they were just kind of laughing like, haha, we proved our point. We don't need to show you anything else because we already we already made our point. That trip the family tree was interesting.

And I know we talked about it in the last episode. So I'm not going to hammer too hard here. But for the short amount of time we were there in a non-investigator capacity, we had a ton of activity in a short amount of time like good activity. I heard my name.

Elle who's with us got growled at. You had a rock thrown at you in the basement. And I know I'm just touching. I know there's a few other things that I'd have to go back in the snips.

He was sitting next to me during recording. And Mike Finlay who was sitting next to me, he didn't have headphones on. So he didn't hear it at the time. We all did.

And we all stopped and said, did you guys hear that? It was like a heavy sigh. And no one was talking to the mics at that time. But on review, he listened to it.

I didn't go listen to it. He did listen to it and he pointed out the exact minute and second. It's like 53 minutes and 15 seconds or something. I was definitely audible.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's been interesting considering that we were there for a very short period of time not investigating. I've heard a lot of activities.

A lot of activity. Yeah. Go into the bathroom. Going into the bathroom to wash my hands, hearing a growl of my shoulder one time previous, walking through their banquet room, hearing audible disembodied voices from behind me, like a group of people having a party and then stopping and turning around.

And of course there's no one there. You hearing your name doesn't count. Why not? Oh, that's because it's probably Annie.

That's probably Annie. That still counts. That still kind of like because Annie's no longer living. Our sponsor just gave us a shout out.

Hey, I just saw you awesome people. Yeah. And John Newman and the Utah meeting Mike Tim said is the sponsor of the show. So if you want readings, cleanseings, stuff.

Guidance meditation. The Michelle's really good with guided meditation. Yeah. The Stones, things of that nature.

That's computer repair even. I actually just got out of computer repair business. Oh, is he not doing any more? He's got a different job now.

So he actually stepped down from doing computer. Oh, I know he used to computer repair. But he also does tactical stuff too. So if you're into guns, Sean's also your guy.

Welcome to the Utah Paranormal and Guns podcast. So let's talk about mirrors. I know we talked about it for an entire episode. It's been well over a year ago.

It's just back when our audio was amazing because we had to make sure that it was a piece of crap and we had laptop to the piece of crap. And it didn't help that you had your laptop right next to the microphone so we could hear like the sound of the motor. Yeah. It's been upgraded since then.

Yes, we have. So let's talk about mirrors. Yeah. This was kind of your topic and your idea to do the actual research.

I did two and a half minutes. Let's have you lead this particular episode and go. Okay. So I think we can all tell stories about different mirror things and we can get on there.

I can even tell you today there's some things that the Jewish people do. There's things that the Christians do. But I get all the time a why. Why?

And so I actually took a picture of this because I knew I wouldn't need it. So and this is just one person's theory because I had a hard time finding a hole on this and I'm just going to read it. And this talked more about older mirrors, not so much about newer ones even though we've had issues with new mirrors as well. So it's not only antique mirrors, but if I just read this off the website it says so.

What is it about mirrors specifically older mirrors that seem to attract spirits? Well most older mirrors have a silver metal coating back and silver is a very interesting metal. It seems that silver atoms and their electrons are not densely packed. Electrons interact with light and there's a blur.

Do you need to borrow Donza readers? I actually do because I'm pausing every other word and sounding like an idiot. Okay, hang on, hang on. I still won't get that one.

Listen on the air everybody's dantrons and just see your sister's eyes. Well it's so tiny. It's only fun. Okay, let's see here.

Electrons interact with light which causes the electrons to move and this causes the light waves to reflect. Interestingly, interestingly the electrons can match the speed of the visible and slower infrared frequencies and reflect them back. However, in the case of ultra light frequencies, these are much too fast to pass the mirror. The mirror which is used in a great deal of these mirrors, you'll be able to once have the highest electrical and thermal conductivity of any metal on the periodic table and one of the greatest optical reflectivity available.

It also has the lowest contact resistance of all metals. Now you remember light is an electromagnetic field and that spirits have electromagnetic fields in the ultra higher ultraviolet range of frequency. This is the case of conductivity of a silver-backed mirror and would be attracted as a doorway. The fact that if these spirits operate at the higher UV frequencies they would not cancel out but rather pass through the mirror with ease.

So, basically what it's saying is just the way it's made up, the way the silver is made up, the way the spirits are made up, they can interact with it better than other things. I think there's a lot of metaphysical properties in the entire universe that we don't really take into consideration. A lot of things in the universe are very symbolic. When you start getting into the paranormal investigations you figure out that some things are symbolic, salt is symbolic of purity based on the fact that salt does kill off bacteria and it's used to preserve foods and it's a white substance.

It's a poison. It really is. It's a combination of two poisons that make food taste better. Right, and so, but there's a lot of symbolism involved in that.

There's symbolism involved with base, symbolism involved with a lot of stuff that's in the paranormal field and mirrors are a reflection of the physical world which I think is symbolic that it is a reflection on the living world. And so mirrors can be used by these spirits essentially as portals. In fact, we had a conversation with Newman. I think you rather with me, I believe Lurch and maybe Tim, you guys can either account or discount this because I can't remember.

Somebody was other with me, I think it was Lurch. But Newman was talking about, and I never actually considered this, but we spend a lot of time looking at mirrors. Teenagers in particular, a lot of times we get mirrors. And our energy and our intent tends to be focused on what we focus on.

So you get an angsty teenager who's looking at themselves in mirror being angsty and angry. They're focusing all this negative energy and it absorbs its emotion into this mirror and it absorbs this angstyness, this angriness, this and can become in a sense a conduit. If I can mention if they start writing something. You get an emo kid that starts writing on a mirror and it's instantly cursed and it's instantly got a portal.

And I can see that happening. Well it says I found on that same web page what it talks a little bit about mirrors through the ages and I won't read it but I'll pop them in every now and then. But going along with what you guys just said, since there's also a belief that the reflection bore the soul of the individual and by studying the person's reflection you could get insights into their actual nature. And that I think is a perfect segue into what I was researching about mirrors with scrying.

I've actually been catching up on some paranormal TV shows lately and one of them the other night I was watching and it opened up my interest and I know that we had to research this but it seemed like very coincidental that they're talking about on the show. But scrying is where you gaze into a reflective surface. Surface if I can talk. It doesn't necessarily have to be a mirror.

It can be a pool of water. It can be a bucket of water. It can be shiny metal. But by focusing your attention as that makes a conduit to the spirit world.

So in essence a very simplified form of a Ouija board as a means of communication. But I mean with things like that you don't know what you're inviting. Well in there's cases if you look in like some of John's offices cases if you read through some of the books about his cases people who use mirrors to practice black magic. And you know basically what you're talking about scrying is they look into this mirror focus or meditation.

Focus their energy and focus their energy and they this mirror actually becomes a dark magical device to basically help them focus and perform their will arc energy in the nastiness. In fact we had a case that we were talking about when we were talking to Newman. And I think Tim was there on this case. Tim and Mark and you and me and Brandi got his brandy gut.

Yes. During that time. I think Jan was there. Which one was it?

Oh that camera that Mark and I. Or the camera. The mirror that Mark and I carried out. Yeah.

Talk about that. If you would from a. I just remember that thing. They had a creepy feel.

I think the end was the first one to pick out that there's something wrong with that. I know that the house had a curse on it and pizza is that a hard time. And it was in the daughter's room. I just remember it was in the daughter's room.

The teenage daughter. The teenage daughter. I remember pizza is because of the curse of the house was on my heart type picking up on the spirits of the house. But it was funny because I market myself that this is before I even really got into being able to kind of send spirits and what we all picked up on it and decided it was best to remove the mirror from the home.

It was just like a mirror that hangs on the back of a door. Not very, I mean it's obviously the length of a door but not very big. It made maybe weight about 20 pounds total. It was pretty, it's the kind of a mirror that you could pick up at Walmart or Target.

It was like $30 like you said. I doubt it would even weigh 20 pounds Tim. I mean I have a mirror like that that's very similar. Probably like half that weight 10 pounds.

So even so 10 pounds. I mean Mark and I were carrying this out together which clearly only one of us should have been necessary. Yeah. As we were carrying this out of the house we decided there was a church cross street we're going to go throw it in the dumpster of the church.

I kid you not as we walked this further from the home this mirror got heavier and heavier to the point where it felt like I was carrying like a 100 pound dumbbell. Same with Mark. Like we both were struggling to carry this tiny little mirror or lightweight mirror across the street because it literally felt like it was getting heavier and heavier the farther away from the home we got. So let me play devil's advocate here first in a minute.

I know as you carry something that's kind of heavy as you carry it further it gets heavier and heavier because your muscles get tired. Could that account for the heaviness? Not for that mirror. In other words I mean a 10 pound mirror that two big guys are carrying I highly doubt.

If you're carrying 100 pounds you know the first 20 feet are going to be fine enough that's going to weigh on you a bit. But what I'm going to ask is because I can just see somebody listening to the podcast going well I go heavier because I carried it really far. Which is why I bring that up because I mean I was there I know how that mirror was nothing about it. I mean if in a normal circumstance it's one that I could have carried.

Yeah you could just talk it under your arm and carry it by yourself without any problems. Now real quick and this is something that Newman brought up when we were talking to him out in the hallway. And it's something that I kind of in the back of my head but he brought it up and it seemed important to talk about today. But the important part is if you're moving a mirror such as that that you think is problematic is not to break the mirror.

Because if you I mean we've all heard that if you break the mirror there's seven years of that kind of thing. And in a sense if you do break a mirror of that nature you are focusing all that negative energy on yourself. So the best bet if you remove something like that is to gently place it in the trashy seticle. And if it happens to break because somebody else throws a TV or something like later that's not going to reflect bad on you or whoever threw the TV away.

It's just kind of a act of physics versus intentional breaking the mirror. As we got this thing to that doctor I don't feel pretty much empty. We made sure that we kind of said it in their town late where we took precautions to make sure we didn't break when we put it in that doctor. Now if somebody else throws something in their breaks it's not going to reflect bad on them.

If you intentionally break something like that then you basically focus that echiness on yourself. It's kind of one of the same reasons why we don't really destroy first objects from home. We will dispose of them. We'll find these in a minute but we never take an axe and hack it full pieces.

It's kind of like that scene in Superman III when those three Kryptonian bad guys were trapped in the glass, travel through space and whoever broke it. Freedom. Well and here's an interesting little segue there. Say the tug and cheek.

I hope you can pick up on the sarcasm. Just one second while I hurry and pull this up. It's just interesting things about different beliefs and different time periods. We talked about breaking the mirror and bringing it to seven years ago.

That's something the Romans gave to us. The one I thought was the most interesting. Let's see here. Does there believe that the reflection bore the soul of the individual by studying the person's reflection?

You could get inside into their true nature. This belief gave rise to vampires. They didn't have a reflection so they had no soul. In the Jewish faith it was important to cover all mirrors in a house where someone died.

They believed that if they're not covered, the deceased might enter the mirror and become trapped or unable to move on. I think that was actually still a custom enforced at the turn of the century. In the 1800s if somebody died, they often did the viewing inside the home and they would go through and cover all the mirrors because they didn't want the spirit to get confused or to basically get trapped in the mirror. Or in other means, Tim went away.

You want any cable? Tim's pointing at me and making gestures. Blue gestures. But basically, I told you I thought.

That's what I thought. They would cover these mirrors to keep the spirits from getting trapped. There's a lot of lore with mirrors and their paranormal metaphysical properties. One thing with mirrors is it was thought if you face two mirrors together that you can actually see the afterlife through the two mirrors.

Which is interesting because the podcast is based out of Utah and we have listeners outside Utah. And I know we have listeners who are not LDS and LDS is kind of the acronym for Latter-day Saints which is the Mormon's. They're predominant religion here in the state. Peaches and plainfitsies with me.

We have a famous person watching our show. Do you want to throw that into the USB port? Yes. Hopefully it won't crash the line.

What up Changa? Oh, Changa's actually watching. We are plugged in. Nothing but the greatest professionals in here.

So, again, we broadcast at Utah where the Mormon Church is predominant faith and the LDS Church, the Mormon Church builds temples all over the world. And the Mormons who believe behind these temples is they use these to do religious work for those who passed on. And kind of the belief is that they can do these baptisms and do everything else for those who passed on and those who passed on can either choose to accept or reject those ordinances. So if Lurch's great-great-great-great grandpa had never been baptized, he could be baptized by proxy and then if Lurch's grandpa in the spirit world said, yeah, I'll accept that baptism has been baptized.

Or if he says, no, thank you, then he doesn't accept the baptism. I've actually done a lot of temple work for a lot of my family. And that's why Mormons go to the temple. Now, what's interesting is in the temple they have what's called the Celeste Jordan.

I may have what are called ceiling rooms if you go to these rooms. And by the way, anybody who's not a Mormon can go to a new LDS temple that hasn't been dedicated yet and can have a tour of and see these things inside the temple. Once the temple has been dedicated, you have to be a member of standing to go inside because they're considered sacred. But prior to that dedication, anybody can go visit and have a tour.

And they are amazing buildings too. I mean, the architecture, the interior design, it's white and cream and just beautiful stained glass pieces and works of art in the architecture. It's amazing. If you get the opportunity to go to a new LDS do.

You're divulging secrets. No, not at all. Anyone can go to them. Now, if you go into the Celeste room or the ceiling rooms and the ceiling rooms where they perform, marriages, they believe will eternal.

They'll ask death. If you go into these rooms, they've got these great big wall mirrors that face each other. Huge wall mirrors that face each other. Now, what's interesting is if you look at the metaphysical lore with mirrors, if you face two mirrors together, it actually amplifies the portal effect of spirits being able to pass back and forth between the afterlife and this life.

Now, if you think in terms of what these LDS temples are built for, which is doing the work of the dead, in essence, the LDS church, the Mormons have set up these perfect portals that would allow spirits to come back and forth through these rooms with these great big wall mirrors facing each other. Whether that's intentional or not, I guess it depends on how much you believe in whether or not mirrors work as portals. But it's kind of fascinating that that's what these buildings are for and that these mirrors have been set up facing each other. And they do represent eternity.

Because you look into the mirror. And you have that eternity effect. You have that eternity effect. You have that eternity effect.

Yeah. Now, let's talk a little bit about mirrors inside of homes and what we should and should not do. When this is where Silenton left because it took us at least an hour to place the mirror before I was freaked out. Now, we had to talk long and hard to get Tim to take the mirrors off the ceiling of his bedroom.

What? Along with the swing eyebolt that he had attached to the ceiling. I said you like the sex swing. Only when I was spending time with you, Tim.

Only when he was drunk. So, basically, let's talk about mirrors again. And I know that you were kind of a stick that comes to mirrors in your home. Let's talk about shells and shall nots.

Okay. So, my mirror rules are this. They do not face each other. And I cannot, I have to be able to lay in my bed and not see my reflection in a mirror.

And for a while, one of my kids had a, we'd moved a dresser into our room and had a big oval mirror that overlooked her bed. And so every night, I don't want to freak her out because she's easily freaked out. But every night before, after she'd fallen asleep, I'd go and I'd tilt the mirror because it was kind of on a pivot. I'd tilt it so that it didn't face her.

Or I would tilt sometimes. I'd tilt it up so it wouldn't face her. But I've noticed I've had times where we've gone into a residential and someone said, oh, we've just had crazy activity in the bedroom. And you walk in there and, you know, there's a mirror.

Full length mirror. Full length mirror, you know, over, it's like you've got to move that mirror. I don't know how many houses we go into. I would say probably upwards of 95% just one numbers out of the air where we don't find a problem here.

There's almost always a problem here in almost every house we go to. But remember that one house we went to where in the master bedroom, they had five different mirrors that were basically forming like a pentagram. Right. Or through the whole bedroom and they're having all kinds of issues in that particular bedroom.

I know there was no. Well, and it's we've been to this house twice. We refer to it as the Coca-Cola house, a little cute little Catholic lady that really got set along with her. You got a demon.

Yeah, for somebody whose name we were mentioned. He said use the term demon and set this purple lady into it. Yeah, it was the sweetest little lady to go back the second time. I was there both times.

So the demon and the purple lady was about to tell herself. She had like her crucifixes all over the walls. Super sweet lady, super religious and incomes to get. Oh, you've got a demon.

I'm just telling you what it is. Sorry. You just talk 15 years on the world. No, but then she turned into the demons layer herself.

The next time we went back, we went back. No, but the first time we were there, we did not go into the show because I think she had her dogs back in there. But the second time we went back in the bedroom, and I think it was Nate. And he goes, Dan, come here.

And I went in there and we counted. They had like 14 mirrors in that room. I was like, holy crap. Well, if we even look back at Salter, we've invested in Salter a number of times.

And Tim, tell me about the room that we seem to have a lot of problems with it. Salter. That would be the Maryland mens room that we've never been in because it's locked. No, the room that we have problems.

So just for reference to this person here. Why are you going in? You're the source of a lot of trouble on a lot of these investigations. Okay.

It's not bad thing. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. So just for reference to the house I was talking about, the five different mirrors was a different house than the one Dan was just talking about. But Salter, they have, I don't know if it's like a dressing room or a one- I think it was like a green room, but it was covered with mirrors.

Yeah, there was literally one, two, three, four, five, six, seven mirrors, I want to say. I think there's more than that. I remember it was all four walls had various mirrors of various sizes. And so the entity that was actually in that room that we have named Bart, I believe told Peaches that he uses, that basically is a portal room.

He uses that to just go to and from wherever he wants because all those mirrors have created this like. I want to say there's upwards of 20 mirrors in that room. Grand Central Station. But yeah, that's the room that we were sitting in when I remember looking in the mirror and saying where Peaches were sitting, but it looked more like the.

Spawn of Satan. Well, it looked like the chick in the ring. I can't remember the girl's name, but it looked like the chick from the ring where the hair, the black hair is just down in front of her face and you can't see her face and all. Even though that's not what her hair looked like at the time, like if you actually looked at her, yeah, that's like a, we've all seen that look at least a good desert.

So it looked kind of looked like that where your hair was down in front of your face like that, but that's what it looked like in the mirror. But if I were to look at you in person here, you didn't look like that. So that's when I was like, Hey, Peaches, can you say something? And she just kind of stared at all this blankly and.

What's up, buddy? Yeah. That's the last first and last investigation or shorts on. Yeah, we've got a lot of good likes back that helped us fire our no shorts on the best.

Well, reinforce our no shorts on the best occasions rule because Tim has a blood drawn if I remember correctly. They weren't that deep, but. There was almost blood drawn and it coincidentally happened to only be three on each leg, three claw marks. And I've known Brandy for years and I think I've ever seen her without like well manicured fingernails.

Shout out to your manicures. Yeah, Sadie. Shout out to Sadie. Hey, what's up girl?

She's real cool. I've never met her. I've never met Sadie. So yeah, and then we have had another home that we used to go to.

We've gone there probably three times in Provo and we couldn't figure out what the issue was, why we couldn't get a cleanse. And they had a problematic mirror in their master bathroom. And we were like, man, we've closed this mirror portal. We've done all this.

And then we kind of ding ding ding moment where one of us goes, Hey, Daryl, that's a trifold mirror. And we realize that we're only closing one one of the three part mirror. And once we realized that there was a three part mirror and we were only closing one part of the three part mirror. We were able to close all three parts and we haven't been back since.

But let's talk about trifold mirrors because I think Mike Findley actually asked us a question about that. So let's talk trifold mirrors. And we're talking about the trifold mirrors that kind of always takes each other. Like the freestanding where you have to basically face the mirror.

Go to a mirror shop, get suited for a suit, fit for a suit, exactly. That type of mirror where you stand in front of you can see multiple angles and you can see them. Not the flat kind where you can unfold them. Yeah, and those, I mean, basically they're always facing each other.

Now, the important thing to bring up with this is I don't want to over-height the mirrors to the fact that people are like breaking all the mirrors in their homes and breaking over them all. You mean they haven't done that already? No, I'm not I'm not I'm not as scared of the mirrors. Oh, when you're fat like me, you kind of do that.

Yeah, well, as you say, when I have an eaten well, because it's been holidays and I kind of look in the mirror a little bit scared, but I'm more scared because I. You know what I do? I'll actually go and I'll buy those fun house mirrors. Make yourself look skinny.

I look skinny in the mirror even though I know I'm not. I hide the scale and then I stand in front of the fun house mirror and then I look skinny and people look fat. You know, I just thought to I remember studying the history of funeral directing and back in like the colonial America days when they would have the wakes at home. So I'm just going to cover mirrors with black cloth and I'm wondering if that has anything to yes, you're nodding.

Yes, because I mean there's there's that connection with the spirit. It's probably lingering around its body and maybe because they don't want it to go somewhere mysterious or maybe they don't want to have a connection with it and give that opportunity to kind of release itself. I'm wondering if that had something to do with it covering up mirrors. Yeah, most likely.

And then you know the whole back of the Victorian age where they would pose people dead people and take pictures with them. Those are like creepy but so cold at the same time. I'm sure there's a niche buyer out there that's like looking for crap like that. I don't get that.

Now one thing that's really important that I do want to talk about and we've kind of hammered on mirrors pretty hard in this episode. Even though we're scared they skimmed over the back hold. Well, we're coming back that but I just want to make sure because I'm realizing that we're like mirrors are bad. Mirrors aren't all bad and not all mirrors have portals.

It just mirrors are more likely than anything else to have portals and have issues and how a mirror is treated is important. Most mirrors and most homes are probably okay. I just want to reiterate that before everybody covered all the mirrors in their homes. One ground outside find there was an ugly because they've all burned their mirrors.

Can't keep a mirror? I don't think so. We know if you look into it and say you know I'm fat ugly and bald and short and have problems. You're looking right at Gary's.

Yeah, you're probably going to get a portal or two in there. I feel like I'm looking good today and putting out those positive vibes. So we actually have a listener question that I think is actually a good question. Kind of fits in law and lines with stones as well.

Do you have to believe that mirrors work in order for anything to happen? No. I mean portals can happen to mirror, but portals can happen to mirror. Whether you believe it or not.

I mean let's talk flat earth for just a second just because you think you're this flat doesn't mean you're this flat. So you don't actually have to believe in a mirror to have issues with the mirror. In fact some of the case files, if you look at Jones AFSA's case files, if somebody's just picked up a mirror thrift shop and could care less and have no belief in the paranormal, but they bring home this mirror that somebody's used for crying and working out with Stark Magic and they bring home this thing else and their life starts going to hell in a hand basket. And then they realize that oh hey when did it all start when I brought this mirror home and they call somebody in.

They say yeah this mirror is a dark portal and they move the mirror and walla all the problems are gone. Yeah and I can see from a skeptic perspective about how someone might buy a mirror and there's a jump in paranormal activity in their house but they're writing it off as being something scientific. There's a logical scientific explanation for what's happening. It's not paranormal.

You don't necessarily have to believe in it but it's happening around you. I felt bad for my family when we had to throw out that mirror because it was pretty nice looking. Let me have to throw it away. Well there's been a few mirrors that we've dealt with over the course of our investigation.

Probably wasn't cheap. There's some that we've covered, there's some that we've removed. I know we had the house in you weren't on that investigation thankfully with the house in To Willa. Oh gosh.

Yeah it's still not together. I say that and I watched three or four people with table shut up. She was fortunate enough to have been sick and her spare guys and Annie were like don't go on this one. I still talk about that to people to this day.

They had a mirror there. It was a huge issue too that we removed from. We didn't throw away but we did try to sage it. Yeah he put it on his garage.

We switched it straight out of his far water too. When people ask me what stands out most of my mind as far as investigation during paranormal stuff and that's like the first story that comes to mind. Let me tell you about this house in To Willa. I mean for me I've been with this team for four years now.

I've been investigating for a little bit long in the lab but with this team that's still by far the scariest investigation I've been on. And it wasn't because of the spirits. It was because of the homeowner, the man of the house. I dare say this is probably the only investigation we've done where the owner, the homeowner has pretty much been possessed.

Yeah I had my nine millimeter on me that time. I have concealed carry permit and I remember you Tim. Look at me you're like keeping eye on him. I was prepared that night to use it in self defense because he had loaded rifles propped in the corner of his bedroom and with all this stuff that was happening.

We're looking at each other like crap he's going to like go get one of the rifles and kill us all. Well what I thought was fascinating about that particular investigation besides the fact that this guy had perfect latin stirring through his head. Yeah exactly I asked him questions in Latin he's like I've no idea what you're talking about but I hear these low guttural voices chanting in unison and he's like trying to say it. He grabbed a pen and paper and wrote it out and it was almost 100% accurate spelling and everything and it translated to this one's hours priest.

Right and I was saying what was interesting at the very end of the investigation I think Tim noticed this I don't know if you noticed it lurched but he reached out to touch his wife and she actually flinched away from him. Which I thought was kind of telling and mildly terrifying in a not kind of way. Why would you flinch away from this guy? This is after we blessed both the homeowners the husband and the wife you blessed the house and I took a picture of both of them after the blessings happened to the beaches and she's like the type 3 still in the house.

Everything we did was ineffective and I'm pretty sure it's because I was so far gone I didn't actually want it out of the house. Well he invited in and he wanted to go I don't think the purpose was for us to cleanse I think the purpose was. It's trapped put up your ad malacor me Tim. I remember you and I blessing him giving him a blessing and he had a bucket in front of him because he was dry heaving he was like throwing up and then after the blessing he tells us that he has this mental condition where he's not actually able to visualize images.

It's fine. It's an effect on mental conditions we looked it up and it exists. But during that blessing he tells us that he had visions of him slashing our throat with a knife. It's like oh great.

It's like just like really graphic gory. Well I think at the same time I would have been interesting to go. It was interesting fact I think I actually left some stuff there nothing expensive but I left and he ended up calling like 50 minutes after left like hey you just. I was like hey you forgot this.

I was like it's not worth going back for it. I'll just replace it. It's not a big deal. And we didn't have to tell that particular individual that what we did may or may not be effective if it's not contact your local priest, bishop, etc.

It's building a bridge we can only meet halfway you have to make the effort to meet us halfway and we can't build it all the way over. You never heard from that person. No I think the point of the investigation was to cause you. To kill you.

Yeah. Since I think it's like you turn up. There was to kill you. There was a double homicide in two-ill a couple months afterwards and I'm just kidding.

I'm not sure that's not the case saying that's something. But really I mean it's one where we could tell pretty close in that we weren't there to cleanse that. No the point and nothing that we could do was going to help because of how deep he was in the fact that he wanted it there. And so it was kind of one of those we put on a show and we basically kind of said don't call us we'll call you in a polite sense.

And he lied to us too. He said that he hadn't been touching Ouija boards and then we find out later that he had been. He's been playing with him for 30 years. He was going to tell me that he's been playing with him since he was a kid.

Yeah. But it's a daily thing that he does so. And he lied to us there. He said that he had not touched one in months.

We have another question. Will throwing away or moving the mirror remove a portal? Throwing away the mirror. That's a really good question.

I want to say yes. Throwing it away? Yeah, taking the mirror out of your house. Taking out of the house.

Yes, but as far as like the portal goes it's still in the mirror. So it's best to you know, in a plan ditch or break it. Well you don't want to break it. You can put it in the trash can and then let the laws of physics or whatever break it.

But you don't want to break it yourself. Right. Then the whole time here's a bad luck. Oh good lord.

I love superstitious. I love working at different mediums and getting different medium opinions because they're finding it. Sometimes it's contradictory a little bit. It's kind of fun.

No, that's not true. But yeah, basically the portal is in the mirror and if you get rid of the mirror you're getting rid of the portal. It's kind of what it comes down to. Like if you move the mirror the portal doesn't stay where the mirror was at.

It actually is part of the mirror. It goes with the mirror. Dead air. Dead air.

That's what we do. It's golden. Yeah, I killed the show. Hey.

Good job, Castle. Okay, now back to trifle with me as I guess. I don't know. Yeah, really my recommendation.

If you're trying to do your best to avoid problems with mirrors. And again, not all mirrors have problems with them. But a few things that you likely do not want to happen. That's bad.

You don't want to have mirrors where mirrors are facing each other. That could potentially be bad. And with a trifle mirror in particular, the thing doesn't stand up on its own unless it's facing itself. So my recommendation recommendation would be I would not have a freestanding trifle mirror because you're just kind of asking for problems if that mirrors.

Well, usually with the trifle mirrors too. You don't normally have them at 90 degrees where they face each other. They're usually at 45s. But still they're at an angle where they're facing each other.

Yeah, I guess they'll see each other. They're not facing each other like that's not a direct on. Right. So either way, I would probably avoid trifle mirrors if I could.

And it's interesting because you go to a lot of bedrooms. You've got these full frontal closeted mirrors, like a wall of mirrors. And generally it's recommended not to have mirrors look out on UIU sleep. So people live in the age.

Couple of questions real quick. One was if the portal's in the closet and you move the mirror, the portal's obviously going to stay there because the portal's in the closet not the mirror itself. What are you going to let you handle that one? Well, no, I see another one on the another question further down by a pilot pounder.

Yeah, so let me get the one before that. So is my wife recently lost her father and mother to cancer and Alzheimer's? And I was wondering if there's a way she could somehow communicate with them using a mirror? No.