Model Refusals Don't Stop Hackers | Devon Thomas

Abliteration AI CEO Devon Thomas discusses selling APIs for unredacted/abliterated cybersecurity models, red teaming AI agents, and why model refusals hinder cyber defenders. Check out our sponsor Lovable: https://lovable.dev. Turn ideas into software people love. MTS is a live news and interview show covering technology, business, politics, and culture as it happens. Follow MTS: X | ⁠https://twitter.com/MTSlive⁠ YouTube | ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@mtsituation⁠ Spotify | ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4HUNNmV1pjV7CW6Lphm1rM⁠ Apple | ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mts/id1891088763⁠ Substack | ⁠https://mtslive.substack.com/⁠ Interested in sponsoring the show? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠ -- Brought to you by: Mongo DB - Anyone can prototype an agent. Learn how to get them into production on September 30th in New York - register at https://www.mongodb.com/events/mongodb-local/nyc Lovable - Turn ideas into software people love with Lovable. Start today at https://lovable.dev/ Larridin - Finally prove what your AI investment is worth. Head to https://larridin.com/ today to start measuring your AI’s bottom line. Neon (by Databricks) - Get up to $100K in credits for your startup at ⁠https://neon.com/mts⁠ ElevenLabs - AI that communicates at human level across every channel and modality. https://elevenlabs.io/mts Arena - Measuring AI performance in the real world. ⁠https://arena.ai/⁠ Kong - The AI connectivity platform. Connect APIs, LLMs, agents, and systems with serious security and governance. https://konghq.com Today’s stream is sponsored by VCX, the public ticker for private tech. Head over to http://getvcx.com to learn more Blitzy - Autonomous software development for enterprise codebases. Ship 5x faster. https://blitzy.com AdQuick - Make your brand a billboard. Out-of-home advertising as easy to scale as digital. https://adquick.com Chargebee - Billing and monetization infrastructure for the AI era. https://www.chargebee.com/ -- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (00:50) Response to "Cyber Nuke" Backlash (03:14) Why Hasn't Hacking Escalated? (05:17) Empowering Defenders via Unrestricted Models (08:26) Open Source vs Closed Models (12:10) Should Frontier Weights Be Released? (18:18) Long-Term Business Model & Custom Guardrails (21:03) Policy and Regulation for Cyber Risk -- Note: This podcast is not investment, legal, or tax advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. Hosts and guests may hold positions in the companies and securities discussed; do your own research before acting on anything you hear.