You know, I was watching your conversation with Tom Bilyeu, and I found it really, really interesting and important because one of the things you talk about when we're talking about, you know, deciding what you want to do with your life, whether it's a business or you're gonna be a pickup artist or whatever it is, is the importance of asking the question why. And in the society and culture we live in, especially one that's so driven by comparison, where your values are almost being handed to you by Instagram and the Kardashians, like this is what you should value. Like I almost, I've almost felt, I remember one day a kid came up to me after I did this like big talk on stage, and he said, I want to be a public speaker. And he was like 17.
And you're thinking, but you've got nothing. And really what he's saying is, like, he doesn't want to be a public speaker. He wants the admiration he thinks public speakers get, probably because he's insecure. And so many kids, including myself as a young kid, we don't actually know what we want.
We have no fucking clue. But what we probably want is not to be insecure and get laid. That's the part of it. And the pursuit of that, as you described, takes us down a dark alley to the wrong place, usually a dead end as well.
So how do I figure out what I actually want in my life without it being Kardashian noise or Instagram? Like, what do I want? How do I find out? I think, so it's a tricky thing, right?
Because again, I think you kind of have to get it right. It's like the relationships. You need to get a couple wrong before you know how to get it right. And I think it's the same in pursuing a career or finding a purpose in life.
Like you need to get it wrong a couple of times because we're experts at tricking ourselves. You know, it's like that kid, he wants admiration, right? But if you ask him in his head, he's like, no, no, I'm just really passionate about communicating with people. I love people.
You know, it's like, we all do that to ourselves. We all like, we find the, the admirable narrative to kind of explain what we're, what we want in the world. So I think you need to go through. You need to hit a couple dead ends.
You know, it's like that kid, he probably should go get on stage and give the speeches and get the applause and then realize that the applause doesn't solve anything, that he's still just as insecure as he was before. Because then once, once he does that, then he'll be ready to ask that question of like, why do I want to do this? Like, why am I really doing this? It's almost a question.
You have to earn in a lot of ways. Interesting. You know, and I feel like a lot of people, they just want to start there. And it's like, no, no, you have to, like, because look, we're all like the Kardashian thing, right?
Like, like the reason that stuff is so popular is because we're wired to value it. We're wired to want status. We're wired to want to be beautiful and sexy. And we're wired to want to impress others.
Like that's never going to go away. The question is, is like, what do you want once that is kind of removed from the equation? But I think mentally to be able to remove it from the equation, you have to try to get some of it first and see that it doesn't work if that makes sense. And what did you come to learn for yourself?
Once you got that stuff, you've had the money, you were, you had lots of success in the field with pickup artistry and you tried all of these things and you tried the cars and what did you come to learn that you value? Well, I had an interesting experience in my career, which we were joking about it before we went live. It was like, I kind of had this realization. So I started the pickup stuff when I was like 21, 22 and then I started coaching and like teaching dating advice probably when I was like 23, 24.
And I got to like my late twenties and I, it suddenly, it started to dawn on me that like, this is cool now, but in like five years, it's going to be really creepy. You know, like it's, it's one thing to be a 25-year-old who's like taking a bunch of dudes out to like talk to girls in a club. It's very different to be like a 35-year-old guy who's taken out a bunch of dudes to talk to 20-year-old girls in a club. Like, it's just, it's a much different look.
And I also just realized, I'm like, I don't want to do this forever. Like this is fun, but like I, this is actually not fulfilling in any way whatsoever. Like I need to find what my next thing is going to be. And during that period when I was doing all the dating relationship advice, I started to realize, especially like a lot of, a lot of clients, a lot of guys who hired me, you know, I'd take them out to the bar and we'd talk to some girls or whatever.
But after a year or two, I realized like what these guys really need is a therapist. You know, it's, it's their problem. You know, they're good guys. Like they're, they're smart.
They're like, they've got a good job. They're sure they're a little bit nervous talking to a girl, but like who isn't what really what their, most of their problems were is like very deep-seated insecurities, emotional issues, and they hadn't dealt with it yet. And so the last couple of years I did that job, I would kind of just take the guys to the bar as an excuse and then sit down with them and be like, okay, let's like, what's really going on in your life? You know, like, like, let's get into why do you feel so insufficient or unworthy of, you know, dating her or talking to her or whatever.
And so I kind of realized that like, you know, what I should be writing about is this stuff, you know, the, the like the, the three best first dates or like how to get her to reply to your texts every time. Like I was writing stuff like that back then because it got traffic and it would, it would get sales. But I'm like, that's not what people actually need. That's not what they need to hear.
What they need to hear is kind of this deeper stuff about self-esteem and self-worth and vulnerability. And so I made that decision to pivot into that, to stop being the dating coach and, and actually start writing about personal development and emotional health because that's something I knew I could be proud of and I could do for the rest of my life. You know, you, you, you can be a 50-year-old, uh, talking about those things and it's still like something you can hang your hat on. Like, but I never would have gotten there if I hadn't done the dating coach stuff.
If I hadn't kind of been obsessed with the like, yeah, let's go to the club and like try to get laid. Like that's the entry point, right? And then you find the deeper stuff along the way. And that's your, that's your sort of now your professional um value, I guess.
The one of the things you value professionally. But in terms of like holistically, when you look at your whole life, one of the things where the values at the heart of Mark that allow him to be, you know, fulfilled, stable, and uh yes, sustainable, like the sustainable values that you think can last you, because of these values, I will be somewhat, you know, content and fulfilled for the next 30, 40 years holistically. Gotcha. So, I mean, the answer, it's gonna sound really banal, but like, um, but it's true.
Uh, you know, I think probably the biggest one for me is, is honesty and not just honesty, you know, with the, with the people in my life. Like honesty is a standard that I hold kind of everybody, all my friends and everybody I work with too. But it's also something I hold myself to being honest with myself. I think generosity is, is one that I've discovered.
Again, it's one of those things that when you do make all the money, like you do make a butt load of money, you learn that it's so much more fun to spend it on other people than it is yourself. Like it feels so much better and it means a lot more. Like it's, it creates those really powerful moments that you, you do remember for the rest of your life. Whereas the Lamborghini, you forget about it.
like you only have one ass.