Hi, I'm Jenke's, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Brit. The story I have for you today is the shiny example of why you should never give up hope. And why you should never jump to conclusions. Because in this span of multiple decades after a young girl's death, a number of people come on police's radar who you would think just have to be the guy.
But it turns out the guy was hiding right under their noses all along. This is the story of Wendy Jerome. It's about 8 p.m. November 22nd, 1984, when 30-year-old Marlene Jerome just like jolts away from a post-Thanksgiving dinner nap on the couch.
She doesn't know what it is that woke her, but immediately she senses that something is wrong. And being a mother, her mind immediately goes to her kids, specifically her 14-year-old daughter Wendy. So she kind of like pops off the couch and starts looking all over the house for her. Like she just needs to lay eyes on her and then everything will be okay. But Wendy isn't home.
Marlene's husband, Wayne, tells her that Wendy went to her friend's house a couple of blocks away to deliver a birthday card. And this is like her best friend that she's going to see her name's Sue. But that was over an hour ago and she has now missed her 8 p.m. curfew and she's about to miss having pumpkin pie, which is her favorite. And they all plan to eat it together after Marlene's nap.
Now listen, she's only missed curfew by a few minutes at this point, but Marlene is just like getting progressively more worried. So she calls Sue's house, though that doesn't exactly help settle her fears because nobody answers over there. So then she tries other friends who live nearby, but no one has seen Wendy. Now despite her gut instinct, Marlene told our reporter that she was clinging to the hope that maybe Wendy had gone somewhere with Sue's family. And it's a thought that she holds on to for hours as she tries telling herself not to overreact.
I mean, in 1984, it is waited out or called the police, not a whole lot in between. That last shred of hope that she had is torn to pieces at 11.30 p.m. when Marlene finally gets a hold of Sue's mom. Yes, Wendy had come by but way earlier. And no, she hadn't been with them.
Like she left their house at about 7.30. And Sue's mother must kind of get a rush of the type of fear that has been building in Marlene for hours because she knew something that she didn't want to tell Marlene over the phone. On her way home, she had driven by a bunch of police and like commotion on the local school grounds. So as she's like having this realization, all she can bring herself to say to Marlene was you need to hang up and call the police immediately. And she said police were at her door within minutes.
Now she wanted to show the officer a picture of her daughter that was missing. So he knew who to look for. But she said that he couldn't even bring himself to look at it. All he said was Wendy had an accident. And even in that moment, her mom is looking for all the explanations that aren't the worst one.
She said she remembered thinking, oh, like maybe she got hit by a car or something. And you can almost pinpoint the moment in her story when the real trauma happened and Marlene's brain started trying to protect her from it because the actual words that came out of the officer's mouth are fuzzy to her now. But she says that she just remembers he said something like she came across a bad person. And somehow she was told that Wendy was dead. And to hear Marlene talk about it even 40 years later, like it will rip you apart.
Right after she said that, her eyes just kind of drifted up and over. And I could tell in that moment she was right back in 1984, she has probably spent so much time in that memory. But before she let it consume her, she physically in our interview had to like shake it off and keep going. Now Marlene wanted to go to her baby. She wanted to be the one to identify her, but the police wouldn't allow it.
And she was furious. She said she had this image of Wendy like naked, beaten, sprawled out in the snow. And she couldn't stand the thought of all these men there with her little girl. And she was the mother who brought her into this world. She was the one who celebrated Wendy's birthday with her just a couple of weeks before.
And now she was just gone. And when she's imagine this, like were they giving her details about what happened? Not really. I mean, truthfully, they're still trying to figure out what happened at school 33. But the picture Marlene was developing in her head wasn't actually the one police were dealing with.
And don't get me wrong, it was brutal. Wendy had been beaten so badly you couldn't ID her from her face. It was actually her school ID in her pocket that helped them get there. Two of her teeth were found on the ground next to her. And the Emmy would later determine that she died from blunt force trauma to the head with multiple skull fractures and cerebral contusions.
And she also had numerous cuts and contusions to her face. Lots of defensive wounds on both of her hands. And there was a laceration to her neck that looked like it came from a knife. Now, it's not a deep huge wound like I've seen reported in this case, but a cut nonetheless. Blood had also pulled around her head.
But the thing that I'll say was really different from what Marlene was picturing is she actually wasn't naked, though it was clear that she had been at some point and then had redressed because she was wearing unzipped jeans and a sweater. But her bra and coat were found kind of strewn about though someone must have been ashamed of what they done because they use her t-shirt and pink hoodie to cover her face. And isn't all this could they tell if she had redressed herself or if someone had put her clothes back on her after her? Yes, we spoke to Sergeant Gus Vinosa of the Rochester Major Crimes Unit and he says that they believe she was allowed to get dressed after being sexually assaulted. And they're basing this off of the blood patterns that they have.
And speaking of, so about 45 feet from Wendy, there were some blood droplets. So the theory is that Wendy might have been taken to the secluded part of school 33. She was attacked at some point she sat up in the spot where those blood droplets were. And then the blood is dripping from her having been beaten. And then afterwards she started getting redressed and then her attacker began beating her again.
Possibly they have a theory that maybe she even tried to run away. And like was that the plan all along? Did she say something that made him realize he would get caught if he let her go? Like they don't know that part yet. Well, and I think like was he lying and wait for her?
Did he take her there? Like how did this all even happen? This is what's interesting. So the school isn't on the way to or from Sue's house where we know she was going? I mean did she go to the school?
No, her 10 year old brother did though and it was really close by to her house everything. So I mean I know she was familiar with it. Most likely the killer grabbed her or lured her from somewhere else. But this whole area everything is within close proximity. I think wherever he took her from he had this place in mind to bring her though.
Because this whole area is pretty residential. Like even where she was found was close to a street. But the one particular spot of the school where she was is kind of like this alcove of an unlit courtyard that's protected by some brick knee high walls and the fence. So this plus the darkness at night can give it a sense of seclusion despite like I said, I mean it's only a couple hundred feet from the street. Well, and knowing all that I had to think it was a little more premeditated than not.
It's a guy like took her to this place that was not well lit behind a wall. Like he knew that this place was here and he had a knife to cut her. I was going to say, I mean, that's what he could have threatened her with to get her. She got alcove area with him. But I mean, you have to think that someone who was willing to do that would also be willing to use it, right?
But speaking of the knife, they don't find any kind of weapon at the scene or any clothing or personal effects from the attacker. There were some cigarette butts and a lighter according to the Democrat and Chronicle. Though they're not totally convinced these are necessarily connected to their killer because apparently this is an area where people would regularly kind of just stand around and smoke. But that is not to say he didn't leave real clues behind. The biggest of which is his DNA, which they end up retrieving from a sexual assault kit.
But they had a couple of things that were a little more tangible that they could actually do something within 1984. Right. So like they had some foreign hairs, including pubic hairs and a physical trail of blood that showed them which direction their killer took off in. About 300 feet from where Wendy was laying, blood droplets are found on the sidewalk by the school on like the side that runs along the street called Rosewood Terrace. And then a few hundred feet from that, there was a single drop of blood on the corner of Rosewood Terrace and Shafer.
How do they know it's from whoever did this and not from Wendy like trying to run away or something? I don't think they definitively know that it wasn't. But it would mean that Wendy ran several hundred feet and then would have been like dragged all the way back to where her body was found, which doesn't seem likely because there were there would be like more evidence. Right. We have a single drop on a corner.
I also feel like someone would have heard or seen something where we don't get anything like that from witnesses. And now listen, they end up typing the blood out and it is the same blood type as Wendy's. So again, theoretically, yes, maybe it could be hers. I think that seems like the least likely it could also be blood dripping from a murder weapon like a knife. But Sergeant Vanosa doesn't think that's likely.
He always believed that their killer most likely cut themselves during the attack. And has the same blood type as Wendy. Yeah, that was the theory at the time. But again, I mean, we also know the attack was very blank. So they do not know for sure.
They just know which way they believe this I ran. But did he get in a car and drive away? Did he walk another one, five, 20 miles after leaving that final drop at the corner of Rose with Terrace and Shafer? They're not going to know until they find their guy. And when they look for their guy, there are two people they already have on their list before the scene is even cleared.
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I'm Yvette Gen Dilei and I'm her sister, Rasha Pecorero. Every Friday on So Supernatural, we investigate alien encounters, haunting tales of the unknown and cosmic mysteries that defy explanation. Ready to discover what's out there? Listen to So Supernatural, wherever you get your podcasts. In Wendy's pocket, along with her school ID, detectives also found a note that read, I love Joey in like bubble letters.
Now, Joey was the top of their list to speak with, but first up was the 24 year old man who actually had found Wendy's body in this alcove in the first place. This guy's name is Craig and he tells police that he had gone to a nearby bar that night, but he didn't want to pay the cover charge. So he left headed towards his friend's house instead cutting through the school property to get there. And he said at first he just saw someone laying down in the distance and thought it was somebody who was probably passed out drunk. But when he got closer and saw all of the blood, he freaked out ran to his friend's house, asked them to come back with him and make sure what he was saying was real.
And the two of them ended up going to a neighbor's house and calling police together. Now, it's pretty easy to check the sky story. The bar, the cover charge, they even interviewed the friend that he was with. Well, and even this way, all that, that would have meant that Craig called the police on himself, which would have made a lot of sense. True, right. Police quickly realized that Craig's most likely not their guy.
Now, they don't know who Joey even is yet, but they figure Sue might. And since Sue was likely the last person to interact with Wendy before she met her killer, they want to get in front of her. Now, she tells police that Wendy popped by a little after 7 p.m. They chatted for a little bit about sleepovers and birthday parties, like normal 14 year old girl stuff. And Wendy mentioned her that she didn't have to be home until 830.
And though she didn't say that she was going to go anywhere specific before heading home, Sue kind of wondered if Wendy could have decided to go to their friend Amy's house. She was another girl who lived in the neighborhood. And interestingly, the route to Amy's house might have put her near the school depending on which street she would have taken. Well, and I'm also imagining their age, like, she's there at 7, she doesn't have to be back to like 30, like when we were that age. Like, I mean, we were walking through the door at 829, like 30 seconds to go.
And like, totally willing to ask for more time next time. Yeah, and listen, Sergeant Vanos and Marlene kind of agreed she was probably headed to Amy's house or another friend's house. Like, she was probably going to take out her time. Yes. But in talking to her other friends, they know that if that was her plan, she had to have been intercepted before she ever made it anywhere else because nobody reports seeing her.
Her friends also tell police that her death makes no sense. Like, she's just a typical teenager who loves to babysit, listen to Journey and dream about owning a salon one day. No one has a problem with her. She's not stirring up trouble. And by the way, even Joey is kind of a nothing burger.
I mean, not him as like a person, but like, whatever they had. No one knows anything salacious about Joey, but they do point detectives to the one that Wendy would have been talking about in that note. It's a 15 year old who went to the same school as she did. And he ends up telling police that yes, they went on a couple of dates like nothing serious. And the last time he saw Wendy was when they walked to the bus together on Wednesday before school let out for Thanksgiving break.
He says he spent Thanksgiving at home, which his mother confirms. So they end up scratching Joey off from the list to meaning that their killer is still out there and they have no idea who he is. And he could strike again, maybe even to the same family because this is when harassing and threatening phone calls start rolling in on the Jerome family house line. On one call, someone said to Marlene, quote, I know when your husband's gone and you better keep an eye on your son. Now, police try putting a tap on the family's phone thinking that this could be their biggest and best lead, but they are never able to pin this guy down.
They think basically he was moving from like phone booth to phone booth to place these calls. And in any of these calls, is he asking for something or saying why he did this or anything? No, I don't even think he says anything in the calls taking responsibility for Wendy's murder. I mean, this might be totally unrelated and just some sick person out there coming after an already Trump-tized family. So even though no one knows who's making these calls, this is still a place where everyone seems to know everyone.
And everyone has a close pulse on what's happening in the neighborhood. So it's no surprise that police are quick to make a connection between Wendy's case and that of another call that officers responded to on the night of the murder. You see, there was this guy who were going to call Dale at the request of Sergeant Vanessa. And the night of Thanksgiving, this 29-year-old showed up to the emergency room covered in blood and cuts. Now, Dale's story to doctors and then to police when the doctors called them in was that he was attacked by a couple of guys while walking down the street.
Except when they tried to dig into the details of Dale's claim, which should be pretty easy to verify based on wearing when he said it happened. They can't find anyone who witnessed this attack. They can't find any sign that it took place on the street, he said it did. And Dale also keeps changing his story. So the police are getting suspicious thinking that, okay, maybe Dale isn't the victim in the scenario.
Maybe he's our suspect. And while he wasn't necessarily staying with her at the time, it is very interesting when they learned that Dale's mother lived on Rosewood Terrace just a block from the school. Same street that the blood trails found out. And I told you, this is a close-knit community. And what's interesting is Marlene told us that she knew this Dale guy, kind of like tangentially.
So at some point police corner Dale, they tell him they know that he's full of it and he breaks. He finally admits he lied. But the confession that comes out of his mouth is not at all what they were expecting. Dale doesn't confess to Wendy's murder. Instead, he said that his story can't be corroborated because there were no other men who jumped him.
The injuries he had were self-inflicted with a razor blade so that he could get sympathy from his girlfriend. Hmm, can I be fact-jacked please? And also like, who is this poor girlfriend? Is she okay? Please tell me she's not with Dale because that's not okay.
It's unhinged. But ladies and gents, some red flags are small and pink. Some are the size of a house and the color of crimson. That one. Yes, this is one of those. Someone knows something like that.
You run because that is some master manipulation. Yeah, so okay, if this is all for her, like did that girlfriend end up finding out? I want to do an entire story on this because I don't know any follow-up on this. Like nobody seems to know what happens with these two afterwards. I have all the same questions.
I assume she found out everything because I think they would have talked to her when they were checking this guy out. You think they would have talked to her? I don't know if she got looped in when all was said and done. Or if he just went home and was like, oh honey, they can't find the guys who mug me. And I was wrongly suspected of a murder if he was- If he wanted attention.
Dude, I know. Like so my biggest question is did they stay together and I don't know the answer. I mean, whenever you say stuff like that, I'm always like, well, it's on an episode now. Like, will she hear it? Oh my god, if she does, absolutely, she needs to call us.
But even though I think Dale is was a bad dude, he is not Wendy's murderer. He is able to point police to the razor blade that he used. Apparently he ditched it on the street. They're actually able to locate it, confirming this weird and wild story of his. I mean, I assume they're also not just like taking that for what it is.
Do they do a comparison of some of the physical evidence? Yes, like, check all the bodies. Right, it's not just the razor blade. Again, no DNA to work with yet, but they do take hair samples and blood samples from Dale just to make sure. And everything they collected, there was nothing to suggest that he was their guy, mostly because Dale is a white guy and the hairs that they have from the crime scene suggest that the person who attacked Wendy was black.
But this gets police thinking it wasn't just the hospital visit that placed Dale on their suspect list. While they were deep looking into him, they actually talked to a local 18-year-old named Michael Ross, who told police that while outside a bar a few days after the murder, he heard and intoxicated Dale say that he was going to get Wendy. Wait, tiny wise, this is after she's already been murdered. Yeah, that part didn't seem to trip them up much early on, but like it doesn't make sense, right? And now that Dale's kind of a no-go, what they're basically wondering is like, oh, could this Michael Ross guy, who is black and would theoretically be a better match for hair sound, could he maybe have made up this whole story?
And why make up a story unless you yourself have something to hide? Right, and like insert yourself into the investigation out way. And I mean, on another note, Michael was known to be a violent guy who carried a knife. So when they go asking him where he was on the night of the murder, he's like, oh, I was just home watching TV. However, he didn't admit that he saw Wendy at an outdoor party near the school two days before her murder. So he knew her, or at least knows of her from the neighborhood, but he swears he didn't have
anything to do with her murder. Now, police start canvassing the neighborhood, asking around about Michael, and a pair of neighbors tell police that Michael could get violent and often wanted to fight. Another neighbor, specifically this guy Timothy, tells police that Michael was sneaky, and he was someone that couldn't be trusted. Someone else talks about Michael chasing after a woman with a club once, and yet another tells police that Michael tried to burn down a house. They find another woman who lives nearby who tells police that she and several of her friends feared Michael. And by the way, Michael's own mother pokes holes in his alibi saying that he went out
at 7pm on the night of the murder. So he wasn't just at home watching TV. And once they know the alibi is BS, investigators haul Michael back in and surprise surprise, he changes his story. He now says that he went to a restaurant and a pool hall known as the greasy spoon at around 7pm before leaving to go home at about 945. And since they're thinking whatever happened to Wendy happened closer to like 730, in theory this could clear him, right? But when police talk to the
manager of the greasy spoon and show a picture of Michael, he's like, nope, two wasn't here. And what's so strange is like they don't ever seem to get a real story from Michael about where he was that night. Or at least there isn't one that has survived old record keeping. But they did get hair samples from him. Also something that didn't survive record keeping. So like,
did they compare those hairs? What were the results? I don't know. But whatever they did or had wasn't enough to prove anything. Because while he remained a person of interest, they didn't have enough to prove that he was involved or to actually arrest him. So whether it was Michael or someone else who
committed this murder, police were going to need more. They were going to need a witness, a confession, a murder weapon. And over the next few months, they have moments where they think they're close to one or more of those, a time where a knife was found in the middle of the street a mile from the school. But it ends up not being the knife, a time where a man comes forward and says that he witnessed six black men committing the murder. But the guy admits to being under the influence the night that he saw it. And he had just been arrested for possession of stolen property when he offered
up this information. So you could have just been looking to get a break with some made up stuff. Essentially, that doesn't lead anywhere either. And this bread is kind of what police are dealing with one step forward, two steps back. Every tip leads to more nothings. And even those phone calls
of the family were getting one day, those just stop and police never determined who was making them. So over the following months and years, it becomes clear that the only way they're going to solve this is through advancements in technology. Talk of DNA is just a whisper in the mid 80s. And a whisper that probably wasn't even making its way to this little corner of America. So it's not until 1999 that police have the tools and the know how to really make something happen.
The night sky may look endless, but its secrets could be closer than we think. Because in this universe, you're never truly alone. I'm Yvette Gentile. And I'm her sister, Rasha Pecorero. Every Friday on So Supernatural, we investigate alien encounters, haunting tales of the unknown and cosmic mysteries that defy explanation. Ready to discover what's out there? Listen to So Supernatural,
wherever you get your podcasts. Using swabs from Wendy's sexual assault kit, lab techs are able to pull a full male DNA profile, one that is good enough to enter into the earliest form of the CODIS national database. But unfortunately, it wouldn't be that easy. There were no matches. So whoever this is has never been arrested after Wendy's murder in a state that collects DNA, or at least they hadn't been swabbed and entered. Right. I mean, there were a lot of cracks in the system
early days as we talked about in plenty of other episodes. This wasn't a total loss though. I mean, this DNA does help police rule out a few people that we've talked about, like Dale, and Michael, who by that point is in prison for a sex crime, which I'm sure just made them even more suspicious of him all the years. Yeah. And honestly, I mean, sometimes there are these cases that remind you why you need a really strong case before putting someone away for murder, because even when it seems like all the signs are pointing to one person, like you get a situation like this, Michael Ross is a rapist.
He's a bad guy, but he didn't do anything to Wendy Jerome. And what about the guy who founded? Did they ever go back and check him like just to officially rule him out for sure? They actually did. So the Democrat and Chronicle had reported that by this point, he'd actually passed away. It was like a sometime in the decade or so since Wendy's murder,
but they had his DNA on file after he took his own life because they had to do an autopsy. So he took it at that point. He ends up not being a match either. So 15 years since the murder, one DNA profile and not a single suspect left on their list. Marlene explained to us what an emotional toll Wendy's murder took on their family over the years.
And Wendy's brother Bill still had to go to school 33 where Wendy was found. Marlene and Wendy's father, Wayne, I mean, they really struggled emotionally after her death. They got so bad that Wendy's name wasn't even mentioned in the home. I mean, eventually it became so much that Wayne and Marlene ended up divorcing. And Marlene moved out of state. She tried to start over. I mean, it was like the only way she
knew how to survive. But that's not to say she was like putting her old life behind her. She still wanted to fight for her baby girl, but it was hard when police kept her at arms length. It's not like they had a bad relationship, but they weren't giving her the kind of case details that she wanted. And the more time that went on as she kind of gathered bits and pieces from what newspaper outlets were reporting and in the absence of facts that she had, like this already gruesome image she had of her daughter, Lang Beaten and Naked in the Snow just kind of got worse and worse over time. Yeah, I'm sure she had like worst case scenario images in her mind.
Yeah. I mean, she told us that she believed that Wendy's throat had been slashed open from like ear to ear. And listen, for many people, they might say that not knowing is better, but for someone like Marlene, like when you don't know, then everything under the sun is possible, right? Like, you know the facts, you can at least try to deal with like the one thing and tackle, right? And not the millions of things that could be possible. And like, you almost go what's worse,
what's worse, what's worse? So again, she's like, always asking, finally, she gets to this point where one day she's back home visiting Rochester, and she goes into the police station and she's like, no excuses. It's been years. I want to see her file. I want to see the photos. And the police actually
let her like crime scene photos, autopsy photos, all of it. They probably thought they were protecting her from the details all those years. But this is what she needed. This is what finally brought her even like a small sense of peace, because it wasn't until now, in this moment, while she's looking at the pictures, this is when she learned that Wendy hadn't found clothes that night. This is when she learned that the cut on her neck wasn't ear to ear, it was much smaller than anything she'd been picturing. But it was also in this moment that she learned that her daughter fought back, that she
might have had time to cry out for help. And it makes you think back to when Marlene was woken up on her couch that Thanksgiving day, like did she somehow on the most instinctual of levels know that her daughter was calling out for her? Like this moment in the police station, I get heals, and then it hurts all over again. But at least now Marlene feels like she's in control, like she advocated for herself. And I don't think she ever gave up hope. But it almost everything I've ever spoken with,
who lives with an unsolved case, they have moments where they try and reckon with the unknown, right? Like they try to make peace with what they can come to terms with the possibility that there might never be answers, because like, how else do you survive? You don't give up, but you figure out how to keep going fully aware that this might be the only reality you will ever get to know. Because it's not like seeing the files sparked anything new for her, and it didn't do anything for her. Right. So another call it 17 more years passes, putting this case over the 30 year mark without
any more significant breakthroughs. But sometimes you just need the right person to latch onto a case at the right time. And in 2016, that right person was Sergeant Vanessa. Vanessa told us that when he finally got assigned to cold cases, he went to the area known as the vult room where they keep all their cold case files. And one of the files he started to look through was Wendy's. And he said the details gripped him immediately so much so that he didn't like
take this file back to his desk. He literally in the vault room just starts like pouring through everything. He couldn't even bring himself to like look away for a second. And it was the very next day that he called Wendy's mom to tell her he is now her new point person. And he starts re interviewing people, re looking at old tips. And at the same time, he's sending off whatever he
can to be tested like the swabs of blood from the drops found by Rosewood Terrace. But those turned out to be too deteriorated to obtain usable DNA samples. So strike out there. And knowing his aspect is in CODIS, he starts thinking, okay, maybe this guy is dead. And like, that's why he hasn't hit their radar all these years. So how do you find a dead guy that you didn't even know
the name of in life? Well, Sergeant Vinosa started planning a way to compile a list of like age appropriate black male homicide victims since 1984. Like maybe he'll just work backwards. And by the way, now that they have DNA and it's advanced so much, all the testing, they are able to confirm what the hairs were suggesting early on their perpetrator was a black male. But according to Sergeant Vinosa, before he can even get this list going, something happens that changes the course of the investigation and makes things a whole heck of a lot easier on him. In 2017, a new
tool was added to the Rochester PD's arsenal. I think I know where it's just going. Well, maybe, maybe not. So New York State approves the use of familial DNA testing, meaning they can use DNA from a suspect to identify potential relatives in CODIS. Okay.
Right. Like they might not be able to get a hit on the suspect, but they can get a hit close. Right. But one step forward, two steps back, like always, they learn that they can't actually use the profile. They already have that in CODIS. So like, again, so much has developed changed
over the years, they have to basically submit a new profile, like a better profile, what they need. And when the state lab comes back after nine months, it's bad news. The profile that they are able to produce has 15 alleles. And the rule was you needed 16 to do the search. So the profile gets rejected. Now, luckily, Vinosa sees the writing on the wall, right? He is advised by
texts and scientists that the testing is getting better and better every day. So he doesn't have to go back to making his list of dead men and checking it twice like some grim Santa Claus. They say, listen, just give it a couple of years. They still had more samples to work with, like they hadn't like used up everything. Give it a couple of years, the sample will give you answers.
And sure enough, they were right. In April, 2019, they send a new sample off. This one takes even longer than the first to come back. But in July of 2020, investigators are informed that, yes, you have a good sample. Yes, we put it in CODIS. And there aren't just one, but two hits from
men and CODIS who are related to your unknown suspect. According to court documents, one of the hits came back to a man named Arthur Williams, who I repeat is not the suspect. He was related to their suspect, though they don't know how. So they have to do some backtracking. And it's kind of wild, a little convoluted, but I'll do my like crime junkie best and give you like the need to know quote notes. So when looking into Arthur, investigators discovered that at one point, he was pulled over
for like a traffic stop and he gave police the name of a cousin instead of his real name to try to avoid getting in trouble because his own license was suspended. Like he gets pulled over, he shouldn't be driving. So he gives them the name of one of his cousins. Police see stuff like this all the time, basically like in an attempt to score out of trouble, you use the name of a relative or friend or someone close. And then whatever charge lands on them. Right. And you pick someone that's close in age instead
of your whatever. So that's not what stands out to them. What stands out is that the cousin's name that he gave, they recognize that name, which we've been asked not to use. So I'm just gonna refer to him as the cousin, but Vanessa had seen that name in the case file that he has read backwards and forwards time and time again. Now the name isn't there a lot, mind you, but back in November of 1984, a tip had come in that accused this cousin of bragging about the murder. Now it's unclear that
was ever followed up on at the time, but this obviously cannot be a coincidence. So police look into this cousin and they discover that back in 1984, he lived on, drum roll please, rose with terrace, just five houses away from the school and only three houses away from where that last blood drop was found. Okay, just to confirm this cousin isn't the other relative that right like this one hits from Arthur and this cousin mentioned and then the second like I don't really even know a ton about the second connection because everything kind of like spawns from what they look at Arthur. Right. So this cousin was not in CODIS, which means it is looking more and more like it could actually be him because we know our purpose isn't in CODIS. So this guy never did anything that would
have gotten his DNA put in the database, but now they got to find a way to get this guy's DNA like surreptitiously. So they put this guy under surveillance for a week, they watch his house, they watch him get coffee from a speedway gas station every day, they follow him to his security job at a hotel. I'm sorry security job eventually Sergeant Vanessa is able to snatch one of this guy's coffee cups from the hotel lobby trash can. It takes two days to directly compare and guess what? It's not him. How? I know. Listen, it is not the guy, but this is still helping build a picture.
Right. We know our killers related to Arthur. We know Arthur has a cousin who lives near the crime scene like this cousin didn't do it, but like that's we have a family. Right. We're in the same family.
So all of this is relevant. It's just like a bad game of hot and cold and right now they're warm. So what they do is they go back to Arthur. They start looking at Arthur to see if there are any other men that he is related to that might fit. Now they discover that Arthur's father died back in 1963 and his obituary only listed his children as Arthur and him having two sisters. But that's weird
because when investigators reviewed a log of who had been visiting Arthur while he was in prison, they show someone who comes to see him who lists themselves as Arthur's brother. And that's freaking it is another name that Sergeant Phonosa recognizes from the case file. The night sky may look endless, but its secrets could be closer than we think. Because in this universe, you're never truly alone. I'm Yvette Gentele.
And I'm her sister, Rasha Pecorero. Every Friday on So Supernatural, we investigate alien encounters, haunting tales of the unknown and cosmic mysteries that defy explanation. Ready to discover what's out there? Listen to So Supernatural, wherever you get your podcasts. The name is Timothy Williams.
This is Arthur's brother. And I don't know if Timothy sounds familiar, but way back at the beginning of our story in 1984, when police were canvassing the neighborhood asking others about Michael Ross, Timothy is the one who called Michael Sneaky and someone who couldn't be trusted. Oh, and is he actually Arthur's brother? He is. Yeah. Then wait, why wasn't he listed in the obituary?
Oh, he wasn't in the obituary because Timothy's mother was actually pregnant when his dad died, and he's like born seven months afterwards. So he wasn't there to be listed. Right. Now when they start looking at Timothy's background, he checks a lot of boxes. He would have been 20 years old at the time of Wendy's murder. So like old enough to have committed a crime like this. Guess what?
He was living with that cousin on Rosewood Terrace, just a few houses from the scene. So he's like all connected. And he too hasn't done anything that would have gotten his DNA put in CODIS. So they can't rule him in or out without a direct comparison sample. And it is a long shot, but Vanosa sees a potential easy way to get one. I've heard that before. It never ends up being an easy one.
Rarely, but you got to try, right? Sometimes it pays off. So when they were looking at Timothy and looking at his background, whatever, Sergeant Vanosa said that he had some priors for things like possession, resisting arrest. But there was also a sexual assault report filed by an ex-girlfriend of his in 1992. Now he's never charged for this. It sounds like the ex didn't want to move forward.
But at the time, a sexual assault kit was done. Now to your point about things that were being easy, Vanosa felt like the odds of finding this assault kit after all of these years where a case that didn't move forward were really, really well, especially because the evidence room had undergone multiple revamps over time and things were purged, whatever. But they're going to look anyways, they go down to the basement evidence storage room. And we're not talking like just a room with neatly piled boxes. Everything is in this place. It is like hoarders, garage full of
stuff like bikes from the 60s, a bunch of doors that were even in evidence. You name it. But get this, they find this sexual assault kit and not just find it, but it is perfectly preserved and sealed. Which like, who were these people and why weren't they running everything? Everything. It didn't cause it ever. I know. This never happens.
So on August 11, 2020, this gets sent off for testing for comparison. Fingers crossed, and S-E-ers wait. Another two days go by, which like, by the way, don't tell me D&A can't be done fast. Yeah, it's really around over here. And just like that, it's soft. Timothy's sperm matches the DNA
recovered from Wendy's underwear. They have their guy after all of these years. But they need to do more of like a direct one for one sample, right? Like, I mean, they don't want anyone arguing anything in court. Like this came from like another case. That hadn't been tried exactly. It's like very
likely him, but without that ruling, no. They're like, let's get a sample from him right now that we know his history. Right. Well, what they have to do is actually to tap the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for help. Because in the years since the murder, Timothy had moved down to Florida.
And made this like low key unassuming life for himself. The now 56 year old was married to a woman named Marba. They had a couple of kids. They're doing normal family stuff. Like, you know, he's a he's a working dad, he's working, he's mowing, he's taking out the recycling. That is where FTLE pulled two
bottles from to directly compare. One of them does match the sample taken from Wendy. And there is zero doubt now. So, okay, how did any of this happen? Like, did Wendy know him? No, so this is
what it's so wild. Once they like had him in their sights, they even went back and re interviewed some of her old friends, they were showing him old photos of Timothy right now, even new ones. Like back in the day, no one is pointing this guy out of a lineup, zero recollection of him. So, Sergeant Vanosa believes that the only way this like probably would have happened is that Wendy ran into Timothy in front of the school somewhere around Rosewood Terrace. And this was just a random crime of opportunity. So on September 8, 2020, Sergeant Vanosa, along with two investigators who
had been helping with the cases, getting John Brennan and Gary Galette, they head down to Florida to finally make this arrest. Gary Galette had actually been among the very first to respond to the scene back in 1984. And now here he was, almost 36 years later, taking part in the arrest of Wendy's killer. And that's like about as full circle as it gets. Truly. And Sergeant Vanosa told us about
before the arrest, like when the team is plotting this, they were all sitting on his hotel balcony, smoking cigars, drinking bourbon, and they were trying to plant. Like we need, this is more than just going and putting handcuffs on this guy. They had the opportunity to really paint him into a corner. And Sergeant Vanosa and John Brennan basically came up with this idea that the two of them would approach his home while Gary hung back in the car, keeping a perimeter with the local police. And the hope was to get Timothy caught in a lie. They wanted him to say that he had never seen Wendy
before, which considering the DNA evidence they had, they would know that's not true already. But then you're like, okay, there's no excuse that we could have had a relationship or anything else, which we know they didn't have. And listen, this dude fell for it, hook line and sinker. So the next day, September night, they show up at his door and not wanting to tip their hand. What they did is they're like, hey, we're investigating this cold case. And we're looking at the guy that
you said was so sus all those years ago. Remember Michael Ross? Like, let's talk about Michael. Yeah, let's talk about him and get your guard down. Right. So Timothy is like, no, I don't even
know, Michael. And I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't even live in Rochester in 1884, which is like almost a bigger, better life than what they were hoping to get in the first way. And it's just downhill from there for Timothy. Eventually, he acknowledges like, oh, yes, I didn't fact live in Rochester at the time. He also admits, oh, yes, I had heard about Wendy's
murder, but he still denies knowing her after they show him a photo. And that is all Sergeant Vanessa and code need. They placed Timothy under arrest. And while he can protest all he wants, which he does, they know that they've got their man. Whenever the suspect is someone like this, I always like wonder what their families knew or thought like, what does his wife think? Totally
blindsided. Oh my God. And Timothy clammed up once he was arrested. But Barbara was like a pretty open book with police. She tells investigators they got married in 1998. This is roughly like nine
years after Wendy's murder. She had no clue about any of this. The Timothy that they're describing to her, she says is not the man that she knew all these years, she said he was never violent. He was never physical with her. She's like, incomplete, shocked. And you know, who else is shocked? Marlene.
Sergeant Vanessa and his team still had to tell her about the arrest. Now the plan always was to do this in person. So all the investigators go straight to her house, like right from the airport. And it is there on her porch through tears that Sergeant Vanessa gives her the news that I think she feared would never come. And Marlene becomes so overwhelmed at one point that she briefly collapses and her son Bill has to like catch her. Which I don't always like know or even think about what
order all this happens. But she had no clue this arrest was even coming. No, they no clue at all. She knew that they were like tracking down leads and working like they had been for decades, right? But she thought they were coming over. They did tell they were coming over. But she thought she was
just getting some kind of update. Like there is no hint to her or something. Now heartbreakingly, the one person who isn't with Marlene when Sergeant Vanessa delivers the news was Wendy's dad Wayne. He had died from cancer back in 2011. All those years of guilt that Wayne carried for allowing Wendy to out that night, like you can only imagine what he would have thought of this. And you
know, Marlene and him actually had gotten back together, by the way. So like those two were able to work out, you know, their relationship and everything in his final years. Now, this feels like the end from the outside. Bad guy arrested, family gets answers. But it is so far from over.
I think families spend so much time thinking about knowing the who and they think about the investigation leading up to that there isn't a ton of thought about what the day to day is like after that and all the work that has to come after. I mean, true crime shows are partly to blame, right? Like they got the guy at the end. But there is a whole second wave of trauma that families have to go through if a case goes to trial. And unfortunately, Wendy's family was not spared of that.
They had to do it twice first in November of 2023, but then just a little over a week in, a mistrial was declared. And we don't have a ton on this. The specific details have never been made public, but essentially, germ misconduct was the cause. Marlene told us that the judge was furious and had instructed the jury members not to discuss the case. And she thinks this mistrial had something to do with like them not following those instructions. But either way, this was
devastating. The family was so upset, there was so much crying. And partly because according to Rochester first, at that point in the trial, crime scene photos, all the Tasi photos had already been shown. And now the DA had to break into Wendy's family that they're going to have to relive all of that again. So the second trial kicked off in February 2024, enter one of the things that we probably don't think about what happens when your daughter's killer wants to take the stand and lie about your kid. In this trial, Timothy does exactly that. According to 13 Wham ABC,
he says that he met Wendy outside a store in September 1984. And at some point, they began a sexual relationship. Of course, he's like, I had no idea she was 14. She told me she was 16. He continued to claim that on Thanksgiving, the day of the murder, Wendy stopped by his place sometime after 7 p.m.
They had sex without a condom and then she left. And he says he has no idea what happened to her after that. That's the last time he saw her. There is no evidence of Wendy having any sexual relationship with anyone, by the way, this was just Timothy's attempt to explain away how his DNA ended up everywhere. And thankfully, the jury didn't buy it. On March 8th of 2024, they found him guilty of
all three counts of secondary murder. And it was the first conviction in New York State using familial DNA. Marlene told us she was so elated hearing the verdict that she had to restrain herself and like jumping out of her seat. And so a month later, Timothy was sentenced to 25 years to life. Following the convictions, Sergeant Vinosa asked Marlene for permission to get a tattoo with Wendy's initials, her date of birth and her date of death in honor of her, a request that moved Marlene to tears. And but if things can't get any more emotional, it was so sweet. Sergeant Vinosa also gave
Marlene the handcuffs that he used to take Timothy Williams into custody. He even had them engraved for her. And we've got pictures of all of this stuff that we're going to post in the blog. But I think this shows not only Sergeant Vinosa's dedication to this case, but how much of a bond can form between investigators and victims families when it is done right? Yes. Right is not easy, but it goes a long way.
Sergeant Vinosa had begun to think of Wendy as a little sister, I mean, even though they had never met. And he said that solving Wendy's case was one of the most satisfying points of his career. That's all so incredible. I know we don't get it a lot. We get a lot of stories about like rifts between I mean, again, it's so easy for that relationship to go sideways. And like,
it's really wonderful to see a family feel like they got the support that they needed the work that they needed. And for the investigator to like identify and connect to a case like that deeply. And do all this to the ever take accountability or explain himself anyway, like even after the conviction? No, and this is interesting because according to Sergeant Vinosa in the years since Wendy's murder, Timothy has become born again, yet apparently he didn't feel close enough to God to unburden himself of his ultimate sin or at the very least even apologize for it. But apology or not, Marlene now has the closure she sought. Her years since have been about keeping
Wendy's memory alive. She said that she feels as long as people are talking about Wendy, like we're doing right now, it means that Wendy is still alive in some way and that she hasn't been forgotten. When our reporter asked Marlene what she wanted people to remember most about her daughter, she said this. She dreams she had her life all planned out and she was working even in grammar school towards getting where she wanted to be when she grew up. She was a good friend, a really good friend. So untold. She's a beautiful soul, beautiful soul and a loving daughter, but my sister
she's missed every day. Wendy's story is a perfect example of how justice can prevail no matter how long it takes and hopefully it will serve as an inspiration for all those families out there still waiting for their own justice. There is still hope and their time will come. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com and you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but we're bringing you a little bit of the good Brit and Spouse something. We're going to do it this month. Let's do it.
Okay, this one I'm so excited to tell you because I also I'm going to show you something and we'll have it like online and everything, but there's visuals. So this is from Susana. Hi Ashley and Brit. Have you ever wondered what true crime and oil paint have in common and whether art could actually help find missing persons? I'm guessing probably not, but regardless I'm here to answer those questions. My name is Susana and I'm a crime junkie from Poland. My Polish crime junkie is
I graduated in painting from the Academy of Fine Arts in Krakow and as you can imagine painting involves a lot of long quiet hours. Perfect for listening to podcasts. Crime junkie for instance. Back in 2019, listening to one of your episodes, a question popped into my head. Is there a way I could get involved in missing person cases? My health? The answers, yes, always the answers, yes. This is so good.
These kinds of cases are something very personal to me. Years ago, a close family number, my brother, went missing. It was only for a dozen or so hours, but those hours were filled with fear and helplessness I'll never forget. That experience, combined with the stories I heard on your podcast, led to an idea. What if a painted portrait of a missing person could reach people in a different, deeper way than a poster ever could? I reached out to the Ataka Foundation, Poland's largest NGO
focused on missing persons and proposed a collaboration. That's how this project was born. The goal was to highlight four real cases of missing people in Poland, not just by retelling their stories, but by capturing them in paint in the last places they were seeing. I visited those places myself to better understand the people behind the names. The result is a series of paintings that aims not only to give visibility to the missing and their families, but also to spark reflection on what disappearance really means. The emptiness, the uncertainty, the unanswered
questions. I don't know if these paintings will help solve any of these cases, but I do believe the stories matter. Raising awareness matters. And anyone can do that. Even a painter from Poland.
If you're curious to see these paintings, you're curious to see the paintings, I've attached some documentation of the project, and you can also find more on my Instagram, which she links to. And we will too. I know everyone else can see this. And if you ever feel like crossing the ocean, an exhibition will be on display in Krakow from August 14th to 30th. You are more than just invited.
And if you're ever interested in covering another case from Poland, I volunteered to be your personal crime junkie, helping however I can. Thank you for everything you do. You're a crime junkie from Poland, Susana. And you brought some examples. I just saw a bunch of pictures that she painted. They
are, I thought they were photographs. Oh my gosh. They are incredible. And I spent so much time on like the exhibitions website, her Instagram, it is fascinating. She is an incredibly talented artist. Wow. And I just love that she listened to our episodes, said what we hope all of our listeners
say. Like what can I do to make a difference in these cases? Yeah, I like to remind people. It's like very, it feels very professional and put together these days. But before crime junkie, like this is, this is what I was. Like I was a crime junkie who was like, I want to use whatever
I can do to help. And I would say like even in your corporate job, you said these are the skills I have. Yeah. This is how I can help. Like what can I do to help your organization? This is not a set.
These are skills I have. I'm an artist. What can I do to help your organization? And it's happening. Yeah, you guys, we don't have to all help in the same way. He doesn't have to fit into this box.
And like, what is it that you're great at? What is it that you're passionate about? Because that passion will translate. This is incredible. Everyone listening, we'll find their way to get involved.
This is beautiful. All right, well, link to it. See you guys can see too.