Hello and welcome to Cagedin, as ever brought to you by the Breadcrumbs Collective and hosted by me, Petros Passilos. For this second of our 2023, Caguary Specials will be warming up our vocal cords, stretching out our hamstrings and shredding the boards as we talk all things musicals and all things Nicholas Cage. You may be thinking, wait a second, Petros. Nicholas Cage hasn't ever starred in a musical, no he hasn't, but he'd love to.
So I have got the only person I know who'd be perfect for the job to discuss all things musical and Nicholas Cage and which musicals he would suit. My guest is a podcaster, actor, singer, dancer, somebody who knows his Rodgers and Hammerstein from his sondheim, the only person I know who did a Top 10 musicals of the year that he saw on stage, Jack Gregson, ladies and gentlemen. How are you Jack? I'm good, I'm good.
I think there were actually nine on that list. You probably saw 10 though, didn't you Jack? I saw more, I think it was only nine because I could only fit nine into a nine grid. But yes, I like musicals.
What was the tenth one? On the spot, what was the number ten on that list? You would have snuck in or is this too precious? Sister Act.
Whoopi Goldberg back as Sister Clarence in that? You know what she was actually supposed to. Pre-pandemic, it was announced that she was coming back so funny. She came over to the UK to do Sister Act and musical when it's first run and she played Mother Superior, which makes sense.
She's got to play and then she's like, actually I'm coming back, it's a new run. I'm playing Sister Mary Clarence again and Jennifer Saunders is playing Mother Superior. Amazing, amazing. That's some gumption right there, right?
That's like, it's like this. She can still do it. She will pop up in our discussion. She has played one of the roles in a play.
I'm not sure if it's one of the ones you picked or no, it's one of the plays that a listener picked but we'll get to it at some point because yes, we'll think Goldberg has played a role that somebody thinks that Nick was K-2 would be perfect for. So that's exciting stuff. Tetris, before we move any further, I have a little surprise for you. What is it?
In the ten minutes between me eating my dinner and then waiting for us to jump on to... record. I wrote a little ditty. Oh, baby, yes, please.
Now, I'm not a talented composer, also I'm not a composer, I'm a lyricist because I don't know how to write music but I'll sing it to you how I think it should sound. And if any of your listeners out there are talented, they can pop some music under it. I did think I can play the piano to like some, I don't know, a reasonable level. I'm not amazing on the piano but I can pluck out a few chords.
I did think but I just couldn't work out the technical aspects of it to hook up a piano for this whole episode and just occasionally, just lyrically talk as we discussed things. You're an operatic. How great this episode could have been instead, you're getting two men talking. Well, you're about to get one dancing.
So this is a song I've titled, a cage. Of all the stars in the sky, there's one that shines a little brighter. Of all the stars in the sky. This one that is the ghost rider.
From face off to wild at heart, this couple of stands far apart from the rest. We're talking cage, Nicholas Cage. He's the top, he's a hit, he's all the rage, yes, Nicholas Cage. It's Nicholas Cage.
What roles would he take if he took to the stage? So sit back and relax with Patross and Jack. As we chat, Nicholas Cage. Ah, yes.
Bravo. I absolutely love it, Jack. That is something, isn't it? That...
I challenge any listener. If you can twinkle the ivories, if you can play guitar, if you can produce music, please make mine and Jack's dreams come true. I'll have a stab as well. Definitely got no sort of actual musical quality to it at the moment.
So best of luck to anyone who tries. We can make it work. I guess they should let people into why we are discussing this topic today. And it is all from a quote, a meagre quote that I'm about to read out from an empire interview that Nicholas Cage did recently.
And the question was, do you have any acting ambitions left unfulfilled? And Nicholas Cage responded with, I haven't done a musical yet. I'd like to try that. I'm not much of a singer.
I did sing OK in Wild at Heart. I thought, but I've blown my voice, sticking purple, raining correctly at karaoke bars. I think I'd make a good, ponchous pilot in Jesus Christ Superstar. So that's why we're here, is because it feels like, and we're talking at a point now, when in the US, the first ever Nicholas Cage Western is upon us.
And it's out this Friday, a date of release in the UK. I've seen it. I'm going to lose lucky few to have seen this film. But it's the one area that Cage hasn't ventured into, is the musical.
And it feels like the last bastion of the cinematic landscape that he hasn't conquered in some somewhere. Or at least had a stab at it. He's had a stab at a lot of genres. I guess.
I don't know. He's even done high fantasy to some degree. He's done saucer as a princess, is high fantasy. That's what I mean.
He's done high fantasy. So yeah, discussing this for someone, he hasn't really done sci-fi. I was like, we did colour out of space. That's sci-fi horror.
But yes, next. Yeah, exactly. It's like the one area. The Philip Cage dick.
J.P. Lovecraft, baby. That's like the pinnacle of fantasmagorical sci-fi you can get. He's done low fantasy with Peggy Suga, married my favourite Nicholas Cage.
That is. Yeah, that is low fantasy, right? That's kind of like what could have happened. It's like what could have happened.
Yeah. Your fantasy is that you go back in time and Nicholas Cage is your high school boyfriend. It's low fantasy. Some great musical.
There's a great little musical turn from Cage in that as well. He's part of a vocal group with Jim Carrey. And you know, there was an attempt to make a Peggy Suga go married the musical. Ah.
In fact, I believe it was done in the UK for quite a while. I know I know nothing about it, but I'm always curious. Bring it back. Yeah, there is.
That must be one of those things, because there's certain things that I know exist. But the internet, for the vast amounts of useless knowledge it has, there are some things that just escape the internet entirely. I know that there's like a 1995 TV adaptation of the conversation, the Francis Ford Coppola film, which does calmer glocklin. But there is apart from a witt apart from an IMDB entry, there is like no information, no steals, no nothing of this.
No, these things do show up. Like for years and years, I wanted to see the non Kevin Smith involved clerks TV pilot. And the years and years, there was nothing. And then suddenly one day on YouTube, there it was.
That's what I'm holding out for. But that's what I'm holding out for. It might be, it might be awful, but I want to see calmer glocklin in the conversation. What am I trying to see him in most things, to be honest?
Exactly. Exactly. Well, yeah, one of the things I wanted to do to start out, this is ask you, where did your love for musicals and especially musical theatre, where did it start and how did it blossom over the years, Jack? I mean, so like as a kid, I was always sort of obsessed with like performing.
I loved Jim Carrey and desperately wanted to be Jim Carrey. I love comedies, very much love comedies. And I always, my sort of understanding is that my love of musicals, came from me taking like Saturday morning stage classes and stuff like that. But also I owe a great debt of gratitude to the Simpsons and South Vog.
Because the musical numbers from those got in my head like nobody's business. I still think the South Vog movie, Big or Long or Uncut, is one of the best like movie musicals ever made. And is my personal favourite film. But like from there on, I sort of discovered more of it.
I started going to see shows. The producers was a big part of it like discovering like Mel Brooks doing musical fiesta comedy. It was the type of stuff that I really loved. And yeah, my main focus is musical comedy.
Musical drama is fine, but I like to laugh. That's why I think that that's really opera. It's a real downer. But yeah, a lot of it just comes from those early things.
Stuff like the Buffy musical episode and other areas like that. It's where my love of it started to develop. And then actually getting to see shows and go and luckily living in London where that's possible. And now I travel to New York once a year to see what I can see.
Wow. And I also do amateur productions, which is fun. Yeah, well you were in the producers, right? I saw that that Thailand in last year, right?
Yeah, we did the producers. That was the first show I've done like since I was a teenager. I saw they were doing it was my dream show to do. And I loved every minute of it so much so that I cried on the final day.
Beautiful. That's beautiful, Jack. Like to be able to, I think that is a thing that I was, I was a theatre kid as a kid. I don't know where, yeah, to kind of speak about my kind of, because I always, I don't know, I'm like musical agnostic in a way.
Like always kind of, but yeah, it's not really my thing. And then I watch like a musical film or something like that. I'm like, I love that. I mean, like West Side Story, like Spielberg was like, this is great.
Like, Tic Tic Pounds that spillbag knows that I think are fucking moving. The songs and like the dancing and the kind of theatrics of it. I was like, I kind of love this. Tic Tic Boom again, Lin-Wel Miranda also knows how to kind of put musicals together.
Obviously it's not written by him. Like and all the, like any Disney film I watched recently with my son in Kanto. And I was like watching him watch it. Like he watched it again with his mum and she kind of messes with him.
Like I saw him at one moment wipe her tear from his cheek. And I was like, wow, like kind of, he's never done that in any kind of other entertainment. And it's kind of that, that fusing together of story and music seems to like really get people to emote. Obviously even like a four year old, like that's probably the first time he's ever cried at a film.
Even when I showed in Marcel, Marcel the show was shoes on. Like, I mean, maybe he doesn't quite understand death quite yet. That's as much as that's a kid's film. That's an adult.
But he did, he did love it. He just, it just didn't have the emotional punch. It was me, it was turning around to me being like, dad, why are you crying? I'll explain it to you, boy.
That's a lovely, lovely movie. But yeah, I find it fascinating that musicals can kind of like bring so much of that emotion, as I said, yeah, I'm quite like agnostic to it when speaking to people, but then when I'm watching a musical. And I think like musicals I've seen on stage probably haven't done me the greatest of service, because I think realistically I've maybe seen like Grease when I was a kid, which is a great, like a great kind of musical, but I saw like a kind of ropey production of it, a cruelly, whore theatre. I saw cats and I, I've got to say, I fucking hate cats.
You're one of the many. It's just so bad. I saw Wicked really enjoyed that. Had like really great seats right up the front and we may be talking about that later.
Yeah, to give something away, don't worry. I haven't said who Jack would have a little cage play in that. It's fairly obvious. Make a good, like a good, like a good, crescendo is one of the way to use.
Glenda? Glenda, Glenda or Glenda? Yes. I mean, you were saying this before we got on mic, but because I'd send you a list of musicals I thought, cage, could perhaps step into maybe a different point of his career.
But you were saying you've been listening to someone, you enjoyed them, and you were like, oh, maybe you're a convert. And then you also said, perhaps there is just a musical out there for everybody. And I think that's true of any form of art, really. I don't really like war movies, but there are some I really dig.
And I remember watching The Exorcist with my friend who hates horror movies, and he loved it. And he said, but it's not just a horror movie, it's a film. And it's true. Like, there's things out there for everybody.
And it's easy to be snappy about musicals, and I don't think the people who go to see them make it hard for people like it, because it becomes sort of the latest thing that costs tickets, the type of people who go, and yeah, it can be very campy. And there has to be a point where you can disconnect from the idea of like, someone's talking, and then they're suddenly singing. Some shows do it really well. I mean, trust me, I've seen my fair share of crap musicals.
I'm looking at you big the musical. Yeah. Yeah. statutory rape in that.
Statutory rape is just a child. Statutory rape. He may be a man for now, but he'll be a boy in mid days. Statutory rape.
You love the man with the brain of a child. Statutory rape. Obviously, there are even worse things than that. Where a song where people just go, we are Susan's friends, and it is one of the most annoying things I've ever sat through in my life.
And yeah, still looking at you fans on the opera. Yeah. So that's kind of your introduction to musicals, and like where the love came from. What about Nicholas Cage?
Like what your feelings do, and what's your kind of relationship with his filmography? Are you a big fan? Like are you a passing fan? Do you dip in?
Do you step out of like, where do you sit? Where do I sit on the boy in that cage? This is my second time on the spot, Gus. I believe.
Third? Third? Oh gosh. Yeah, I believe.
I come back. I return. And I'm still waiting. Well, one day I'll chant the Rainmaker.
Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a second. Rainmakers in the works. In the back.
In the back. That's right. That's right. Green Hornet's the only other one.
So yeah, I probably didn't talk much Cage on that, did I? No. I'm a big Cage guy. I've always been like throughout his career, he's someone who throws himself wholeheartedly into a role.
And you look at his body of work, and to deny him is ridiculous. You look at something like, Bring Out the Dead, Or Wild or Heart, Or Conair. Like the man's done, like you said, done it all, apart from musicals. And some of it's absolutely fantastic.
Some of it's not great, but I never really put that on Cage. I think he's... Well, something that always fascinates me is people always baffled at the fact that at one point he was going to play the Jeff Daniels role in Dumb and Dumber. It would have been great.
And people was like, Oh, well, how would Cage have fit in that? It's like, well, if you look at Jeff Daniels, pre Dumb and Dumber, he has a similar career to Nicolas Cage. Do you know what I mean? I wouldn't change it for the world.
Daniel's is spectacular in that movie. Like Cage would have had a great time. And I recently watched Something Wild, and it's like, I could have easily have seen Nicolas Cage play the Jeff Daniels role in that film. Like, they were kind of doing these similar similar types of roles, whether it's...
You look at just before Dumb and Dumber came out, he would have been in... I mean, like, it could happen to you. And like, did you know what I mean? He was like, at every man for a while.
Yeah, honeymoon in Vegas. Like, he was kind of in these goofball comedies, like raising Arizona, moonstruck. He was kind of like, yeah, he was just like, I don't know, it's a bit wild at times, but at the same time, you could see him. He was wild at home.
Hey. I went through like a period around probably me being like 14, when Blockbuster started taking in secondhand videos. And like selling them off for like two pounds, 99. And I think the two actors, I started like devouring the careers of were Nicolas Cage and John Cusack.
And boy, when I found Conant, it was stoked. But like, and I remember like, it wasn't like the big stuff I always wanted to try now. It was stuff like it could happen to you. And Peggy Sue got married and all this kind of stuff.
Whereas I was like, let's see this guy. This guy be the average guy. I want to see him play that because I'm interested. And he, you know, he's very good at it.
And it's kind of like one of the reasons you can think of like, Oh, you could be in a musical. Well, speaking of Cajun in a musical, like the high camp that comes with it, something that I feel like we need to talk about, just because it's kind of hot off the press and every corner, we have just had the trailer for Renfield. What are your thoughts on this film, Jack? Or like what we've seen so far, especially Nicolas Cage's Dracula?
I think it looks cool. Like, I love that it doesn't give much away of the Dracula. It's that still seems being played pretty close to chess. I'm curious to see like how it all plays out.
Like it looks like there's like a lot of time covered in this movie. I assume most of it's going to be present day, but I'm excited to see the past and all right. Renfield's a fun character. It's playing a cold as a cool guy.
You got your two next reunited from the weatherman. Yeah, father and son becomes master and servant. Same thing. That's very telling on your relationship with your father there, Jack.
This is not the place for that. No, I think it'll be cool. Definitely getting like a warm body's vibe from their cult at some points. But I'm more than okay with that, because I'm a big Jonathan Levine fan.
Yeah, I'm excited. I want to see I'm hoping it leans into like some of the more horrific elements. I have a feeling it will. Yeah, there's a moment in that trailer where we see a priest explode.
And I'm like, I'm hoping we're getting some grew and some grit. I'm hoping like it's an all rated comedy. I hope in the UK, it's like a 15. Kind of not playing it safe with.
Well, I think with that exploding priest, we're safe to say like we're not getting a 12A. Like I can't imagine like an eight year old watching that like being being okay. Depends how devoted to Christ. My question for you, Fettros is how do you feel on the accent work from Mr.
Cage? I'm loving it. It's kind of like because it's slightly reminiscent of his Peter Lowe voice from Vampire's Kiss. It's kind of and it feels like this is what Nicolas Cage's career has kind of all been leading up to is playing Dracula in some form.
He's obviously a massive fan of Silent Cinema, whether it's like the Captain of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu's in there. Like if you watch Vampire's Kiss, he kind of wholesale still stuff like the body movements and stuff like that. So you can imagine the day he kind of got that script on his desk and it's kind of like highlighted.
Yeah, we're thinking about you for Dracula. Like when he had that meeting, you can imagine kind of every being, like every fiber of his being kind of vibrated in that thing of like, yes, it's finally, it's finally coming to me. Like I mean, he's like, he's there like Gary Oldman in Francis Ford Coppola's. Bram Soker's Dracula.
It's like when that's out in the E for a second. Seemie, seemie. That was Nicolas Cage when he knew that they were doing a new kind of telling of Dracula. Yeah, you know, you know, he had so much fun doing it.
The kind of the costuming and stuff like that. And I think the cost of me looks great as well. The rings like there's that on set photo that kind of came out a while ago of him in like some red velvet tuxedo and it just looks beautiful. And yeah, the voice, the voice, he's like, he's naming the book and there's something about that trailer.
And I'm not sure whatever it is because I'm very much in like the musical zone at the moment. It's like, I could happily take Nicolas Cage like bursting into song in that. Like if they close out the film on a musical number, I'll take it. I mean, Nicolas Holt's not against it.
We've all seen the season close of skins when that ended in a musical number. So let's have Renfield end in a musical number. And imagine it's not it's not beneath Chris McCage. I mean, it was from Robot Chicken and Lego Batman movie.
I'm sure he's got a musical number up his sleeve somewhere. I mean, there are plenty of Dracula musicals, but they're out there. Yeah, there's the one I'm disappointed doesn't actually exist. Is Jason Seagrass puppet Dracula musical from forgetting Sarah Marshall?
Let's get that on the table right now. It is a travesty that that wasn't turned into a movie of itself. No, but we got Jason Seagrassmuppet movie. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I re-watched for getting Sarah Marshall recently and forgot to tell my enjoy that movie. Yeah, I imagine you could probably see it. I don't know. See a lot of yourself in that.
Jameena Kair loves musical fit. I'm sure you've probably experienced like all of us. Yeah, you're a fan of pining over his ex-girlfriend. Yeah, sounds like me.
Perfect, Jack. Well, before we get into your pics for today, I don't want to introduce you to help me and the listeners out a bit by telling us a little bit about like musicals and like the way the songs work. Do you know what I mean? There's certain songs that convey certain stuff.
Don't say they're all pushing the story forward, right? Or is that kind of what are the kind of different songs we get within a musical? I mean, yeah, it really depends on the show. There's all sorts.
If you look at something like something that maybe like Mr. Stephen Sontayam would have written something like a Little Night music, which I just performed last year, very good fun, very good show. The songs and that, like some of them are completely off the wall, and some of them drive the plot. And like not every musical is insanely plot driven.
Once again, Sontayam looked at something like a company, and that is very much looking at a moment in someone's life and someone turning 35, and the sort of areas around situations that would be involved with that. And I wouldn't say it's a very plot driven show, but it's an emotion driven show. And then there are things that are very plot driven, like something more traditional, like that's what the opera or what are your big ones in the West of Greece. But there are also sort of like things that you will notice recurring in a musical as often an opening number that will set the stage and set the tone for what the show is going to be, maybe introduce a few of the characters or at least introduce some of the themes.
There's the classic, just very much in a Disney musical, the I Want song. Yes. You've got your, you can often have a comedic number, perhaps sung by a villain or a side character. Villain numbers, this is very much now in to like what Disney do, but they're great at doing it, so why not talk about it.
Yeah, because you always get that kind of like, this is the place, this is where we live, look at this place, this is where we live. So we're very happy with the status quo, but someone might change that. Yeah, I think Disney is a very much falling into that archetype of like the I Want setting up this place, the soul of despair, right? And like the kind of like, no, this point of the story, and I didn't get what I want.
And that's very much like Howard Ashman and Alan Menken, who came in and sort of revamped to Disney musical in the late 80s with a little mermaid, R.A.P. Howard Ashman. Wonderful documentary on Disney Plus about Howard Ashman, called Howard if anybody is curious. But yeah, you, it's hard to say, again, the musical we're going to be discussing, like I'm going back to Sondheim a lot, but that's what happens in musical theater.
Assassin's not a plot driven show in the slightest, it is again emotionally in character driven. And each character has their own sort of song and their own story. But it's wonderful. I guess like, there's different types of musicals, right?
There are some that are just traditionally completely sung, like in that kind of like, there is no dialogue whatsoever. And then there will be a prison apparatus, yeah, stuff like that. Yeah, and there'll be others that are kind of songs within a kind of traditional play structure, you should say, yeah, like, yeah. There's a wonderful show called Something Rotten, which actually I'm kind of regretting not having on this list now, where a character is set in the Renaissance and a character is a playwright and he's trying to beat William Shakespeare to the punch.
And he goes to a soussé and he asks what's the next big thing in theater. And there's a whole song called It's a Musical. It's like an eight minute song, it's very funny. And it goes through all the different styles of musicals.
And it's like some are too long, some are just plays with songs, some musicals have no talking at all. It's very, it's very fun. But yeah, there's a whole spectrum of different styles and you can like, there's no set, especially if you look at like the history, like, the Golden Age, sort of like 1930s musicals, one of which we'll talk about in a bit. And then you've got sort of the 70s where things got a little bit more experimental as people got a little bit more experimental.
And like modern day, stuff like written by Pasig and Paul and people like that, they have their own rules and their own sort of structures. And it's hard to describe the differences between them all, but they're all unique, beautiful little beings in their own way. That's fascinating. I guess it, it really plays into what we were saying earlier, of like, there is kind of a musical that can suit everyone, right?
It's like, if you're kind of, if you're wall to wall singing, there's something for you. If there's, if you want some ditties thrown in amongst them talking, like, it's a bit of that for you. There's, there's something for everyone. If you want a line of cats introducing themselves one by one, kill you something for you, I'm sure you're listening.
So what it did like, kind of figure out your list beforehand, like how we're structuring this. So is it a structured list in the way of the, I don't know, the top six, because we're doing six here because Jack couldn't drill down to a five, which I'm not mad about. That's 12. What is vulnerable mentions?
So with, with the six, is it is it structured in a, like, least to most? No. No, I'd say maybe we keep the one I have at the top for the last. Okay.
Because it's probably the most accurate. Okay. And then another question I had on the kind of structure of it, the way that we're kind of going to discuss this and something that we might kind, we can figure out as we discuss each musical as well is, are we thinking a specific era of Nicholas Cage for each of these roles? Is this something you've given for two?
Where is it something we can kind of figure out? I think I've kind of stayed within the current era. Cool. Who is now?
What he could actually do? What could actually do? And I've also tried to stick to musicals that have not had a film adaptation, or if they have, have had talks of a remake. Amazing.
Amazing. Yes. I read like a couple, one of them has just had casting news last year of of an A-list actor playing a certain role. And I'm excited to talk about that.
But yeah, I think one of them choices better. I think a couple, one of them maybe had a couple of film adaptations in the 1930s and the 19s. 1940s maybe or 1950s. So it's like kind of way beyond it.
I don't know. It's probably due. Yeah. I also had Sweeney told on the list.
I was like, you know what? No. That was too fresh in our mind. Yeah, as much as we kind of put it.
Maybe what she wasn't. So let's kind of bend the button page team up. We really need Superman. That is kind of, I think that is one of the things I'm hoping for before one of them leaves this mortal plane.
I'm sure that Tim Burton will be stitched back together and animated in some Yeah, but yeah, Henry Sellick will just be animated again 24-7. So let's jump into your list and we'll go for a crowd, a crowd pleaser to begin with. And that is little shop of horrors. So who are we thinking Nicholas Cage would be good for in this production, Jack?
This is the thing. Like who wouldn't he be good for? There's definitely a time in his career where he would have been a great Seymour. But if I'm looking now, he's probably in the Mr.
Mushnick role. He's old enough. And I also think he'd be a great dentist. Doug's Aaron Scrameller.
And then I also controversially make him the voice of Audrey too. Yeah, you can imagine him doing Audrey too in some kind of New Orleans occasion accent that probably wouldn't be politically correct. But you could imagine that being the choice that Nicholas Cage goes for. Like, was it we spoke briefly about him on the Green Hornet that he wanted to play?
He wanted to play the villain with a raster ferry in accent and cornrows. So it seems like a man who is not beyond, maybe his viewpoints would have changed now. Like smart idea not to do it. He's not too traditionally like a person of color.
He's not being that role. I think so. At least from the versions I've seen. Yes.
So yeah, it's controversial. But I do think Cage can have fun with it. Perhaps I should just give a little backstory for your listeners who don't know the show. Little Shop of Horrors based on an old Roger Corman movie about a young florist living on Skid Row who finds a strange and exotic plant.
Everybody is interested in and comes to see it soon turns out that a plant is eating people. That is what causes it's a strange and exoticness and causes all that it's a Faustian bargain type thing. The young florist is feeding people to the plant so he can get more and more fame and popularity and win the woman of his dreams who is currently being wooed by a masochistic dentist. You could see Cage like kind of really being like brought into like buying into that story as well.
It kind of feels like there is like you can imagine me like yeah, it's Faustian and like it kind of has a Faustian bargain between Seymour and the plant and it's just really, really love the swirls that has been set up here. I think from listening to the songs on it, I can definitely see him as the dentist especially like the dentist rides a motorbike. It's kind of like too cool for school. You could imagine Cage kind of donning that leather jacket and getting into it right?
Yes, of course. I mean, this I was made as a film in the 80s and in that role is Steve Martin who's playing it up and doing a sort of Elvis type thing which Cage can do in his sleep and he'd have the best time with it. Before that film version was made, Scorsese was interested in doing a version of it, a 3D version of it and you know Scorsese and Cage got history together maybe maybe he would have put him in there. That sounds like a Scorsese cocaine film.
There are cocaine films and there are sober Scorsese films and that very much sounds like a cocaine film if you were to do that. It's New York, New York. Yeah, I guess it's kind of brushed with a musical, it's New York, New York. Right?
I've got it out of my system, I'm off the coke, I don't want to do a musical now. And that's coming to Broadway this year. New songs by Lin-Manuel Miranda. New York, New York, wow.
That'll be fun. Yeah, a little shop is my personal choice of favorite musical. I love the show to pieces and I think I love it with Cage as well. It's great fun to be had there and the man knows how to have great fun.
So would this be a stage production you'd like to be caging or is it a film adaptation you think you would see? So we're doing a new film adaptation and Chris Evans was supposed to be playing the dentist. I believe that film has fallen apart. I say bring it back, get rid of Chris Evans, put Cage in there.
Yeah, it would probably play to like some more modern things that he's like an older man. Do you know what I mean? Seymour's likely what you think in Jake Gyllenhawn? No, he played him on stage right?
I think casting I believe was looking at Tarrin Eggerton. Okay, that feels pretty root one. Like yeah, because I know that Jake Gyllenhawn played him on stage right and the actress Ellen Green joined him on stage for a couple of shows of it. How cool.
Imagine for him, Jake Gyllenhawn is one of my faves to see him. If they're going to make a movie of it, Jake's our guy. He might have aged out of it slightly, but it's you know. Someone I've seen I know that she was in talks as Lady Gaga as Audrey.
I think that would have been very, very fun. I believe Billy Porter from Boys was down to play the Voice of Audrey too. So, oh, it sounds great. It sounds great, right?
You could have such a, yeah, you could have, I don't know. It's such a nutty show. It's exactly why I over over-cage whether it was just like something that can match his level of nuttiness. Yeah, and I think if there is, if there's someone nutty enough to do it, it's cage right?
So let's step away from the nuttiness and go into your second pick here, which is Anything Goes. Tell us a bit about this musical. It's one that I've never heard of. So, Anything Goes, I sort of the first time last year trying to requite myself with it.
Mostly takes place on a cruise ship. It's a very old musical. I believe it. First, opened in 1934.
And it's all the music of that guy I really like from that era whose name escapes me and I'm going to look it up. Cole Porter? Cole Porter, hey, that's the one. He, yes, yeah, I'm right.
I'm right. I'm right. I'm right. I'm right.
I'm right. Look at me. So, there's kind of a story in that a young man who's in love with a woman who's going to marry someone else, sneaks aboard a cruise ship to be with the woman he wants to be with. The board that cruise ship is a gangster who's hiding out called Moonface Martin, who sort of takes the young lad under his wing, and also on that ship is a performer, Reno Sweeney, who's friends with Moonface Martin.
The best part of the show are Reno Sweeney and Moonface Martin. The two young lovers you kind of like there there there there the appetizer, but what you stay for is these two large characters who have the best songs and the best scenes. There's a lot of fasts, lots of people pretending to be who they aren't stable at this cruise ship. It's very silly, but very fun in an old-fashioned way.
It's like a screwball comedy for the most part. And I think Cage would have a ball as Moonface Martin against him. Just looking, there was a there was a London Revival in 2021. Robert Lindsey played Martin.
And then was replaced for the tour show by Dennis Lawson in 2022. But who would you say is some of the iconic people to have played the role Moonface Martin? Like to your money? And so there was a big revival in the States, and I believe in the mid 2000s, you had Sutton Foster played Reno Sweeney, who also played over here in the recent revival, but she played at opposite Joel Gray.
Yeah, I think people will best know him as the MC from Cabaret. Like he's a musical legend. He pops up a couple of times, I think, throughout this. It's kind of like when looking at the the Spotify list that I created, it's like, oh, Joel just Joel Gray again.
He's kind of doing he's in he's in this show as well. Yeah, it's 2011 Broadway revival. He kind of came back. Stop.
There was a one point Bernard Cribbins had that role. My favorite on the list of people I've found, Rip Taylor. If people don't know who Rip Taylor is, go back and watch Waynes World 2, or any of the first three Jackass movies. Oh, are you by?
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah. Oh, he's done it again, Johnny Knox. Yeah, him at the end of Jackass one with the kind of like screamers and stuff like that. Wow.
Wow, that would have been amazing to see Rip Taylor in anything. Yeah, that sounds perfect. And in many ways, Nick Cage is the modern day of Rip Taylor. Yeah, he's got that energy.
I reckon he's got that energy in him. I can see him as a moon face model. A moon face model is a good character. He's a gangster who wants to be taken seriously, but he's a bit shit.
He's like, I believe he's America's 13th most wanted. There's that great duet that he has, I guess, with the Reno Reno Sweeney character, where it's kind of like a friendship. Yeah, just a perfect blanch. It sounds like a little comedy routine within the song.
Yeah, it's like them kind of like, if you're out on your luck, can you need like, I'm the one if you need a buck and loads of energy. Yeah, it's this great little kind of like ditty of a song. It's like, I'd love to see Cage doing the little two step to that. Great.
Yeah, I think that's it. When I was looking at sort of like lists, I mean, some people might accuse me of having some recency bias on my list, but hey, I am who I am. I wanted to have something that was sort of a classical Jazzy musical for for Cage. And because I think he, you know what I want?
I want David Lynch to direct anything goes movie, Nicolas Cage as a moon face man. Oh, him and Laura Dern get Laura Dern back as as a realist. Oh, God. Yeah, like, I know I'll hold off a net and I'll mention it now just for you and the listeners to kind of have this in your mind.
Is there any, and I'll ask you at the end, I don't want your answer now. Is is there any Nicholas Cage films that you would like to that you think could be like turned into a musical and which one? I have an answer for this. So we will get to that at the end.
Something for me, you and the listeners to look forward to. So let's hop out of anything goes and go to a musical that I keep going back to these songs that I just kind of picked out the ones where the like had the characters yeah that you said, Cage would be it's two in this in this show and it is assassins. And I think there's a specific reason I was drawn to this. I think it's because who wrote the music and lyrics to this to this musical and it's a fucking legend.
Well, yeah, the aforementioned Stephen Sondheim returns assassins. We talked about it a little bit earlier. This show is, as I mentioned earlier, quite non narrative based. It's sort of a history lesson in song.
It takes you through a series of real life characters who tried and some who succeeded to assassinate the president of the United States. Each of them has their own song, their own ballads. And it's orchestrated by a sort of narrator character who takes us through it all. And we've also got a sort of strange sort of other sort of character who takes us through it all.
Who sort of version I saw, I've already seen it once. I'm not sure if it's always done the same, but it was all sort of performed out of fair. And it was like a guy who's lining up getting people to win prizes to shoot like shooting ducks kind of games, take a gun and kill a president with a prize. It's a very interesting look at the American dream.
And who better to play John Wilkes Booth and Benjamin Franklin Gates himself? Yes. So, it ties perfectly back into the start of Booker Secrets, right? They have that whole like, what's it the Gates family who like, were they one of the co-conspirators to the Lincoln assassination?
Yeah, I love it. There's a few characters in this that Cage could really step into. Booth, I thought was the one that sort of had the gravitas. I should say, like, I'm doing all this.
I don't know if he could sing any of these songs. But damn it, nobody cared about that when they cast Russell Crowe in Les Misérables. And I'm not going to care about it now. When John Wilkes Booth comes into, I believe it's the first song that he has.
The Ballad of Booth. The Ballad of Booth. There is a kind of like Elvis, like kind of like creeps into Bowie-esque quality to the way that it's sung on the recording I listen to. I'm sure the man who killed my country.
Yeah, you can definitely have a little bit of a G.L. that doesn't sound that. I imagine it would have been the Victor Garber one that would have been recorded. I mean, there's another one.
There's the Victor Garber one, which I believe is the original. And then there was a revival, I think, in the 90s, not sure who played Booth, but I know... David Firth? Could be.
I know it's the revival I'm thinking of is the one that had Neil Patrick Harris and Mark Koolish. I'll find who played Booth. But there are a few people in that show again. I feel Cajus well suited to play an assassin, presidential assassin.
Yes. There's definitely... Michael Severus is who I'm thinking of. Who's actually a wonderful performer.
Yeah, the other roles I think Cajus I've been to. I don't know if you had The Ballad of Gato? No, I very much like, because time was quite short and it says I need to just cram what I've got. I will now be like probably just listening to some of these shows in their entirety.
The Ballad of Gato is a great song. The reason I didn't mark it down as one for Cajus, because I genuinely don't forget Suits' voice. And the character is so manic and insane. And it's definitely Caje Energy about them.
They have Caje Energy about all these characters. What I love about the Wikipedia entries for these musicals is how detailed they are. And with each character, they just like next to each of their names, it kind of says what the singing register of that character would be. So like John Wilkes Booth said Baritone, F-sharp second to G-4.
It's kind of the vocal range that they would need. And it's like, I love that. I love the kind of specificity of like, it feels like my eyes have been open to a whole new world. I love these kind of like nerdy little details and stuff.
Yeah, thank you, Jack, for kind of opening me up to this. I've got to be nerding out. I mean, I was just playing these roles in the past. Is there a cast recording of that?
Like... I mean, I did not realize until right now that Catherine Tate was in the 2014 UK revival. So that's quite fun. If people don't know this show, I can only beg you to...
It was, again, like Broadway revival last year. And it's something to look out for. It's some really beautiful and disturbing songs within it. The love song, song by the guy who tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan because he was in Love with Jodie Foster.
Yes. That's duetted with one of the Manson family. And he's singing about how much he wants Jodie to notice him and she's singing about how much he wants Charlie to notice her. Wow.
It's unhinged in the best possible way. So can you kind of like... I don't give me some insight into this because I'm not sure how this works with musicals. Obviously you have the person who writes the music and the lyrics.
You have somebody who writes the book. Which tends to come first. Is it like somebody writes the book and then goes, hey, I need these gaps filled in with songs? Is that how it tends to work?
I'm not entirely sure. As I've not written like a full proper musical myself, I could message someone I know who does and see if we can get a response. I would imagine it's quite collaborative from the start. And I do think someone who's writing the book will know when there needs to be something.
And perhaps a lyricist reading the book will be able to say, we need something here. I know the perfect song to go here. I think there's probably a little push and pull between the two. Yeah.
It's interesting in that sense. So the 1992 stage adaptation of Assassin's in London was directed by Sam Mendes. There's been some talent behind it. There's been some like...
That's the thing. Having this conversation and kind of prepping for this, I'm now going to be like, oh, all right, I'm going to have a little look. Even if there's a kind of, I don't know, off the West End or some kind of stage production in London of this. I'll definitely be like, you'll see me there, Jack.
We'll be calm and calm. Hot stepping into assassins. I'm there. I can't wait.
Tux is ready. Tux and Tails. Speaking of Tux and Tails, we'll get on to our next pick. And our next pick is Jack.
Young Franconstein. And which role are we thinking for Nick Liscator? We've been thinking Franconstein, or would that have been earlier time in his life? I think that's an earlier time.
To be honest, I think I want to go for the role. I think he'd probably prefer to have... Do we pronounce this Igor or Igor? Igor.
Yes, based on the Mel Brooks classic, his second musical after the producers, many consider his sophomore slumber. Young Franconstein follows the kind of, follows the story of the classic Frankenstein novel. Instead of, it's his nephew who comes to Transylvania and decides to bring a corpse back to life. It's surrounded by all sorts of wacky characters, including his faithful servant, Igor, with a moving hump and bulging eyes.
And the original film played beautifully by Marty Feldman. I believe on stage played wonderfully by, in the US Christopher for its Fitzgerald, and in the UK, Ross Noble. Yeah, like the cast recording I've listened to is the Ross Noble version, along with Hadley Frazier and Summer Strelan. I think Ross Noble does a great job.
Like, it's only on stage twice. He was great. Yeah, like fantastic. Well, he had, I think Corey English replaced Ross Noble from who was the US national tour.
Yes, because he's a wonderful actor. I saw him on the West End as the producers as Max B. Alistog. So somebody who's well versed in the Mel Brooks musical.
So this is a kind of later, like a later adaptation of the film, right? That this? Yeah, I mean, this is so the film is I believe 1974. Yes, and this is in the US open in 2008 or 2007, in fact, did quite poorly.
I thought I was never gonna see it, because just after it didn't do very well, I was just about to have it over here. And then it finally did 10 years later. So it's slightly revamped for the UK. A few songs changed, a few songs were written, few songs dropped.
And I mean, it was a big deal. Gonna come over here. Mel Brooks came over to work with the cast, it's where I luckily got to go to a Q&A with Mel Brooks of the original Young Frankenstein movie. It's where he did his great appearance on the one show, where he tells them how nutty their show is.
Yes. And I don't think this is everybody's favorite show. I love this show. I think it's a great one.
I think it's pure musical comedy in the best way possible. And when looking at stuff that I loved, I thought that Nickle's cage could fit right into. I go into a side role. He might be a little too old for it, but I can only imagine his eyes bulging out wanting to do it.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. This is like, in a way, I kind of feel like Brooks and Cage are a match made in heaven.
Like if Brooks was still heavily doing stuff now, I don't keep he'd be called in cage. Why? I think Brooks has got like this darker edge to him as well, isn't he? I've seen he's got this this whole thing that he's been a producer for like some David Lynch stuff in the past.
Yeah. I think that took his name off of that because he didn't want people to associate it too heavily with like the comedy stuff. But like, and I think him and him and Lynch have had this friendship throughout the years. And I remember this great story hearing about Brooks had like some kind of honorary award for something, some kind of like dinner it is on a and on the set of the elephant man, like I see David Lynch, not not realizing how cold it would be in London whilst they were filming like came about a jacket and I was on set.
You can imagine him chain smoking cigarettes, but freezing cold and milk brought coffee in cigarettes. Yeah. Yeah. Like what David, what's going on?
I mean, you got a coat and he's like, it's so cold here in London. I just didn't know it would be this cold. Okay, now. This is why I do the Daily Web report now.
This is why I normally film in the Midwest. Okay. Yeah. He's like, say like, and he bought him a coat and at this, like, honorary dinner, he is like a David Lynch turned up in the coat and it was in like mint condition.
And it's just like, just the kind of love and admiration he kind of had for Mel Brooks is like, now, here's the coat. I've still got it. Let's not scratch on it. There's a, there is a beautiful video online of, it might be the same event you were talking about the Kennedy Center on us with Mel Brooks, where many sort of famous actors do songs from Mel Brooks movies, honoring him.