And now the low welcome to the low post podcast on a Tuesday morning I hope everyone voted and with that out of the way it's time to bounce around the East and there's nowhere better to start bouncing Even though they lost last night to the Atlanta Hall to the outra young with the eight-in-one Milwaukee bucks my pick to win the title at the Beginning of the season I weirdly somehow feel less good about that pick but I'm sticking by it even though they were undefeated until last night And there is no one and I mean no one in the sports media Apologies to all the other people who knows the Milwaukee box better than Eric name of the athletic. I'm thrilled to have them on Eric How are you sir? I am great. Thanks for having me Let's just do the basics get them out of the way the thing that should scare the entirely is that the bucks are first in defense And as you were I think the first person to point out in the preseason doing something they've never done before which is care about opponent three point shooting and holy smokes Are they caring about it as a portion of opponent shot attempts?
They've allowed the seventh fewest threes in the NBA that was like 29th 30th just regularly teams are just chucking above the break Threes culminating in the crash and burn grant Williams performance in game seven of last year and you would think mr. Name that maybe they've sacrificed something to limit opponent threes and you would be wrong They're still allowing the fourth fewest shots at the rim. They don't foul They get every defensive rebound all the old bucks fundamentals are still there with this one new bucks fundamentals That's great all good Offensively no Chris Middleton their number one ball handler. We know that no Pat conneton who's super underrated and important to their team 18th and offense looks a little icky sometimes and a shocking and you're gonna have to explain this one to me shocking For a freight train team with a four steps to traverse the whole court superstar alien that we've never seen before 30th in a 30 team league in transition offense, which is their bread and butter so Eric After nine games eight and one third best net rating in the league 18th offense first defense Two of their I would say five to six best players are out.
What's your temperature take big picture on the books? I think the biggest thing is what you mentioned about the defense I thought going into this year This was this is something new that they were gonna try this is over the years You know, I don't know how many times I asked Mike Boone knows about how many three pointers He was giving up and the answer was always well. We don't want that Eric. Let's be clear We don't want that to happen, but you do have to make you have to make choices You have to figure out what are the things that you're willing to sacrifice and they were always willing to sacrifice above the break Three's to average to above average There was never gonna be the other teams back shooters They were always gonna do a good job on those players But if you were an average to maybe slightly above average shooter you were gonna get all the above the break Three's that you want it literally an endless apply of them the and it was a genius thing in some ways that when I close my eyes and think About it the first well, who's the first opposing shooter that comes to your mind when you close your eyes and think it just qualified Grant Williamson we mentioned him and it was a landmark game when you close your eyes and think oh my god They're really doing this like when that realization hits you who's the shooter you think of because I have one Al Horford in Boston I think at a game you and I watch together like it was the first I think maybe the first time they lost under Boone Holds or at least the first time they really got scared under Boone Oh, and it was Al Horford just shooting up a bunch of three's I think the self-exhaft 44 three's that I think maybe like the eighth game of the Boone holder era and it was oh They're just giving that to Al Horford and but knows Al Horford.
He knows him very well. He knows exactly what he's capable of And you said okay, go for it. You want to win this game out go right ahead It's all you who were you thinking of myles Turner when they just when they just let myles Turner shoot every pick and pop three He wanted and after missing like three in a row and this was the this was the secret sauce of the scheme He would catch the ball and think should should I keep should I keep shooting? I might just really gonna take 12 3's now I'm 7 feet tall should I be taking this many 3 and that paralysis is what they were going for almost as much as anything else So and to be fair the bat almost paid off in game 7 against the Celtics and they won the championship the year before But even last year when it was oh my gosh, how do they keep doing this it almost worked Grant Williams passed up a bunch of looks He was like I think it was like two for eight something like that And then you know can do his credit drew up a good play for him Marcus Martin whipped him a pass and it was Grant that's going on this play is for you for three and then Grant Williams remember Oh, yeah, I shoot 40% from the corners I should just go back to doing that and then it was over but they didn't have any other option with Oakhurst Middleton They didn't have enough offense They didn't have enough size on the wing to actually, you know, switch everything They had to play this gamble and it almost paid off because of that exact paralysis that you're talking about So what what do you think if that was a last ditch gamble for a shorthand a team almost punching above its weight in my opinion in that series going to What after so many years of stubbornness of doing it the same way what drove them to make this shit Because when you watch them and you see that their perimeter defenders are they don't even have a foot in the paint on the pick and roll They got their feet outside the paint and you watch it unfold and you're like well This is kind of the whole point of having Brook Lopez and Giannis as dropback centers is that this is how you should play Why did they decide to get here this year?
I'm genuinely curious what happens last year if Brook Lopez ends up being healthy for that entire season because because Brook Lopez Plays the first game let's be clear in the bucks destroyed the nets on ring night I mean teams don't typically play all that well because they're celebrating they're having a good time They destroyed the nets that night and it was like oh my gosh I guess the bucks are just gonna keep this thing rolling and then Brook Lopez missed 60 games And I just don't there's a lot of things that the bucks are doing differently We can get to the offensive end and what they're doing on the offensive glass here in a little while But like there's a number of things that they're doing this year that I'm curious if it would have happened last year If maybe they didn't start the season with the idea that hey We're gonna start taking away more threes, but if it could you know 40 games and be like alright enough is enough We can do this we can give this a try I just think Brook Lopez means so much and you know I've heard Jeff and Ganyan on some of the yes pimp broadcast a lot of people talk about hey Brook Lopez pretty good I don't know why people don't realize this outside of Milwaukee and then if you talk to any bucks fans They're like this dude's incredible We don't ever want him to leave sign to whatever contract you need him because he should be here forever And you talk to the most important player on the planet at the moment You know said kumbo and all he tells you is oh my gosh Brooke makes my life so much easier Oh my he gets every he doesn't get every rebound which would maybe be a problem But he boxes everybody out he eats up three dudes on the glass and Janice just swooped in for one handed rebounds And then as you mentioned about the transition attack he's out on the run and he gets to do all the things that he's great At I'm defense. He doesn't have to be the rim protector He doesn't have to deal with five men he can just be this Romer free safety whatever you want to call it thing tear dack that we've never seen before he gets to do all that because Brook Lopez is there and I'm really curious to see as the season goes on it's going well right now Right the shot profile makes sense. They're forcing teams in the mid range They're not giving up as many shots at the rim as you would have thought I think rather than like first it's fourth or fifth and then you go to the three point line and they're just not giving them up there I'm really curious to see one if they continue to get better at this if they continue to you know fine tune it Also, it's a pretty heavy load on Brook Lopez. I do think that's another part of this is that there might have been some genuine concern about how Far can we push Brooke?
How much can we ask him to do because over and over again when you watch games this year? I've been tweeted out like I keep thinking myself. Why do teams keep trying Brooke? You know what he can do he's seven feet tall.
He's two hundred eight pounds He's in black and shots like this for all five seasons. He's been with the box. Why are you trying him? Well, my alternatives are try honest which seems horrible try drew a holiday Which just seems like it seems like it's like it's like getting mugged on the street or something This is awful try Jevon Carter and I do think there's something to the fact that with Middleton out They have started a total defensive specialist in the starting five and then we're gonna get to that in a minute They're just aren't that great options.
Yeah, but Brooke has been incredible I if they need the limit his minutes a little bit like Abakah just really hasn't looked great to me I mean he's playable, but that's that's about the best I can say the port as Janice combo has been consistently awesome for them at the Four and the five was critical during their title run They can amp that up a little bit, but I look at this defense. I Don't see any reason why this is unsustainable They may be getting a little bit lucky with opponent shooting I think they're allowing like the second best corner three percentage and a bottom 10 three point percentage the second best mid range Percentage of the tons of mid-range jumpers. They're giving up on purpose or kind of on purpose are not going in that'll change a little bit But I don't I mean drew Janice and Brooke Lopez are top 20 defenders in the NBA and Giannis may make a run at defensive player The although he learned last night Eric name you better box out on yukka Con who or else he was gonna leapfrog you and dunk it on your face and you could tell the honest was a little frustrated by that Last night. I mean, okay, so good.
I I'm talking about the box. I'm not sure the Hawks are doing this is really good I really enjoy watching play and on the list of guys that make Giannis work He's pretty high he's really up there So if the Hawks do have you know ideas about what they're gonna do in the playoffs You're gonna have to go through Milwaukee having that guy on the floor for a whole lot and a whole long while is probably a good idea But yeah, I mean he was great And honestly with the Bucks defense the thing that I think I keep coming back to about why teams tribe Rook Lopez is when you used to get downhill on the Bucks You could just hit the release valve right because there was gonna be over help from the corners There's me over help from the other side There's gonna be four people in the middle lane and you got one dribble you got one step and I was like oh There's a wide open guy in the corner or oh, there's a wide open guy on the wing. I'll just throw there I don't need to go try to climb Mount Lopez like I'm good. I'll just make a Block mountain I don't need a comment.
I'm good I'm just gonna pass it out there and that passes in there this year because they're not helping in the ways that these That passes not there so you get a step and you're like um, I guess gonna keep going I don't I don't have any other options. I'm gonna go in Brooklyn. Paz is a gigantic a gigantic person is in my way I misspoke by the way I read their offensive numbers their defensive numbers are the point the point stands six best the point of three points shooting fifth best at the RIM seven best mid-range those are so so seven lowest whenever I misspoke before it doesn't matter It's very low across the board. It'll take up a little bit But I just think this is they've been an awesome defensive team for essentially all of buds 10 year other than last year They stepped back a little bit when Brooke was hurt to me.
That's locked in it's solid Whether they drop off a little bit here and they're gonna be a good defensive team Offensively I don't I don't truthly I don't really care until middleton comes back because he is the most important ball handler on their team I am curious who starts when Conantin comes back. I know that they were sort of unnerved by how Hunchless they were against Boston switching even without middleton and they wanted to sort of amp up the creativity a little bit So some screens run some Spain picking rolls with back screens and all this to make switching harder Let me start though. I haven't dug into the video. What how are they last in transition?
What's going they must have a bunch of turnovers and missed open threes or something like what's going on there? That's that's that's what that would give me a reason for if they're just average that takes them from 18th to like 11th And offense by itself. Yeah, I'd be really curious just overall what happens offensively when they stop shooting like garbage They've just been bad from the three point line and that's not something that hasn't happened That was the 21st in threes that I mentioned before and second elastin corner three so they are shooting horribly and once that comes up I'd be curious if this offense just kind of automatically even without middleton gets to like 12 Maybe 10 in offensive rating and everything looks a little bit less bad, but yeah I mean transition they've been overall they've been sloppy with the ball They just haven't been clean and they've missed a bunch of threes and the bucks You know the thing I've always tried to tell people over the years is like the thing you got to watch out for the bucks Is three pointers between 15 on the clock and about 18 on the shot clock They love getting those things up and oftentimes as you mentioned that's a transition shot and the legal the stats will struggle to figure out It's semi transition transition but those are a lot of transition transition with the bucks is transition because you know They're bugaboo who's always been our often our half court offense can be ground down a little bit Let's run so whatever it is classified as it's gonna be live rebound kick run shoot So a lot of the times, you know if that 3-point percentage comes up I think they'll be better in transition and overall offensively you're right They they were really kind of disappointed in what happened offensively when they saw those switches that they just didn't know Really how to attack and to be clear Chris Middleton didn't play Chris Middleton is very good in isolation He's very good as a ball handler pick and roll. He's very good in really taking advantage of all of those Opportunities where you get a step or you get a slight mismatch You know I've been posting a two small gift for people that get matched up on Chris Middleton when he gets on the you know On the right side for forever like if he catches the ball in the mid post It's over if you're not big enough He's just going to store there and the bucks have based their offense around this idea since through holidays come to town in isolation They have three guys that are great at we always talk about the nuts and how good that team hypothetically could have been if they ever played and Whatever their their whole thing, but those three guys their whole thing I know they all of it all of it literally all but those three guys we always talk about oh man They could be so great in isolation when you look at drew holiday I'm sitting on Chris Middleton.
You're looking at three of the I believe when the trade was first made three of the top 15 or So players in isolation. That's what they're good at so not having Middleton short-circuited anything They might try to do against switches, but you look at what they're doing this year This is the most dribble handoffs of Mike Boone holds their offenses ever ran in in with the bucks I would have to look back and I would guess even Atlanta it wasn't as high as it is right now So they're doing dribble handoffs more Janis is really focused on the screen re-screen. I'm gonna screen again There's a sequence in the Philly game to start the season where he just did three times It was Tyree's maxing and he's like all right Tyree's I'm gonna get it I'm gonna screen you and I missed you. Okay.
I'm gonna screen you again. I missed okay I'm gonna screen you one more time by and by the way he doesn't get enough credit for Completely buying all the way in to becoming a screen setter because this was a guy who and he still has a little bit of this In a minute probably good that he does well Kevin Durant shoots jump shots and has a bag and yeah Braun has a bag and shoots shots like I gotta be like that and slowly but surely he accepted reality He accepted to coaching staff's wishes and went all the way into becoming like he does a little bit of everything But he does a lot of rim running or he's a rim running big man and it's not it is glamorous because he gets a dunk a lot But but he's gotten good at it. He's not just doing it to dunk He's doing it because it's the best use of him for the team It's he's doing it because the middle to Giannis and Drew Giannis pick and rolls are so good for them Like he just doesn't he he doesn't get enough credit for that because a lot of guys wouldn't have done that I don't think honestly I think in the organization they were worried going into the championship season I mean you think about all the pressures of that year right? It's the super max gonna happen all that that summer they lose in the bubble there was legit concerns with people Like is Giannis gonna buy in two screen anymore is this something that he's willing to do because as you said He's all the best players on the planet the best player on the planet doesn't set screens He gets screens set for him That's how this works That's why I'm the best player on the planet and he really did buy into it in that year And he's gone out of his way to do it even better and I was talking to Stephen Silas at the start of the season And he was like Eric.
He's not just he's not just willing to do it. He's good at it Like he's gotten really good as a screener where I think I think the player Stephen Silas mentioned was Stephen Adams He's like that's how hard of a screen Giannis is to get around at this point He's so good at flipping the angle He's so good at his footwork that your right's like he has totally committed to it And it's opened so much up for him offensively in ways where when he was just beating his head up against the wall It just wasn't gonna happen So that has been a huge week and they're using a lot more like you said there's some Spain pick and roll There's some double high pick and rolls going on this year a lot of stuff that you don't typically see in a boondhose or offense They're literally trying to squeeze every single thing they can out of this office You mentioned isos they're ice on much less this year But that's probably because in part because middleton is out guess where they rank in points per possession on isolations on offense according to second spectrum Somewhere in the middle 30th last so that will come up as well With with Chris coming back. Okay, here's a question for you This is a deep cut box question, so I've got the best person for this I'm gonna give you a list of names and you are gonna tell me who among them you trust to be at least 10 minute a game players in the playoffs Jordan, O'Rourke George Hill I mean, let me just read all the whole is you just you instantly just rejected Jordan or a poor guy can't play defense is shooting 30% from freeze gal little juice to know George Hill who shoots almost as often as I do right now less Matthews Interesting they brought him off the bench to start the season Sir. Jabaka Jivan Carter Joe Ingles Man as of today the only one I can speak with any confidence is West Matthews like there's no way that I think I can Can say any of those other players because I think the Bucks if you talk to people on the Bucks Oh my gosh, I don't know how many glowing anecdotes.
I've heard of Joe Ingles at this point It's all anyone anyone with the team. That's all they want to talk about man Ingles be great. He's gonna be awesome when he gets on the floor and I think Joe Ingles play he's a pick and roll my show 40% three point shooter from us for his career all that could be true He was also bad before he got hurt last year and you have to try to figure out like okay Was that just the ecosystem in Utah and everything was kind of toxic at that point that he just couldn't have a good season Or was that the start of his decline? He's an older player and now he's coming back from ACL who knows what happened?
So I can't I can't with confidence a joint goes even though I think the entire organization believes that dude is going to be a dude for us in the playoffs He's gonna play a bunch of minutes. He's gonna open up the offense because he can do all those things off of second-side actions He can be the primary ball handler or pick and roll with the honest if we need to he's gonna be a problem They believe that there's no way that any of us could believe that at this point because how could we we haven't seen him play? Wasn't Matthew's I think he works he plays physical defense I think you mentioned that yet that he's coming off the bench to start the season before the year I asked Wes I was like hey, I don't know how bud is going to put together rotation I don't I never will bud won't even tell me to start until they are officially announced 30 minutes before game He's gonna be secretive about it, but I would guess they're probably gonna try to manage your minutes this year I would just guess that that that's what happened and Wes looked at me and it was before the first season game He's like I'm ready. I'm ready tonight and I was like, okay.
Yeah, I get it like he started to cut like a WWE promo I love it. I'm ready to go every night every single night. I was like, all right, that's great And I think the box do believe that so I do think West can give you 20 minutes again off the bench or starting However, you want to do it if you have a big wing that you want to throw Adam to enjoy He's really good at that. He's been good on Jason Tatum.
John Brown. He can do that. So those are the two Jevon Carter is gonna go through this problem. I think all year long There's just time for he doesn't shoot the ball and it's really hard to be an NBA playoff rotation player when you won't shoot He's a good corner 3.2.
He has been for the last three years Just like on this team his whole job is played defense in shoe corner 3s That's it and he should like I guess I just can't quit Jevon Carter. He's so frisky He's pressing people up and down the floor. He's tough. He's stronger than he looks.
I can't quit him He can shoot corn trees just shoot man. You'll be on the playoff rotation That's all you gotta do I mean, that's really the big thing is you know There was a start this season I think the fourth and fifth game he took three shots combined one one shot one game two shots the next game and I As button pregame I was like I know he's not out there for his offense But this is Giovanni to shoot to play and he was like oh yeah We talked about it and Jevon to his right shot 12 times that night. All right That's what that's all you need to do like you said you just got your threat Just shoot the threes when you're open and then all of a sudden just imagine being in opposing guard and you get 48 minutes of True holiday Wesley Matthews and Jevon Carter. You're having a bad time.
I Spass you gotta hit the ice bath. Whatever else you gotta hit the ice bath and beer Whatever you need to get through it It's gonna be a long series and I do think that will help Jevon play but he has to keep shooting So those are the three I feel comfortable with the rest of the guys Yeah, you know There's some guys getting up in age a little bit trying to figure out how to still make an impact at the NBA level I'm curious what George Hill can do across the whole season that that neck injury last year They try to rehab at the summer. I'm out. I'm out.
I'm out. I'm out. I know bud will sign George Hill George will be 52 years old and bud will be like we gotta get him back. We gotta get him back on him I'm guys him and Thanassus untradable.
We gotta get him both back. I'm out. He just doesn't do anything He's fine, which is he like runs around on defense and gets through screens. It's fine He's a professional veteran George Hill.
He doesn't shoot his five of 20 on threes I think as long as their core guys are healthy and that includes Conatan I think they have like just enough depth to do what I think they can do I do know that they have and I was the first to report this Snipped around J Crowder had interest in J Crowder They have I believe a 20-29 first round pick they can trade how If they're cruising along at number one in the East in my god are they cruising? They're just watching all these fires burning all around the Eastern Conference is hey, we're over here Nobody covers us we pretend like we're offended that nobody covers us But we actually like it How aggressively will they wield that stuff to try and other piece and maybe you know they've never really found the next PJ Tucker It hasn't hurt them that much but the sort of bigger switchable three four type that they kind of crave That's why they were interested in Crowder. Maybe are interested in Crowder How much do you think they're gonna they're gonna go that route? I think if Matt Crowder specifically just like we're gonna be all throw aggressive for something another another guy I'll speak to J Crowder start.
I think a J Crowder makes the trade request in January I think it's an ideal I think the Bucks have already made the trade they figured out what's gonna work and they've gone out and they've done it I think part of the problem is the Bucks know they have there's some stuff in the cupboard But they're in a lot you're reaching to the back of it You're trying to pop it's like opening the freezer I mean like how long is this baking soda been in here? So you can be the package is kind of like disintegrating before your eyes and there's like some frozen brussel sprouts next to it And it's like I don't know I don't remember when those can't know it's not empty the cupboard is not empty in two John horse credit He's always been good at this right? He got a nuclear meter for four second rounders and I think two of the second rounders are made up I think top 55 protected or something like that like what was Nicole and here to just best moment on the Milwaukee Bucks What what was a Nicole and here to moment on the Milwaukee Bucks like one the night bud decided to start Miratitch in Utah. He played a lineup of Middleton Miratitch.
I remember this Bobby Oh, no, just like I'm trying to think about the other side was but it was five dudes all six eight or taller That was the most memorable moment and I can't even remember correctly Zach So he's me here to just probably right now at this exact moment If he's not playing having a glass of wine on a beach somewhere in Barcelona and being like a man the NBA sucks I got my face got broken. I got traded a bunch of times I was like some of the places were cold food wasn't as good as it is here like I'm living life This is great. Yeah, so I John horse will always be aggressive. He's shown again and again and again He is going to make a move at the deadline.
I think Crowder is gonna be interesting I just don't know if Crowder lasts all the way until then because I think within the organization and you know kind of what they're thinking about is One shot that we have we have a grace and Allen. We have a George Hill to get us into the Twillion range, you know if Jo Ingles comes back and doesn't work out add six more you get into the 18 to 20 million dollar range We got picks We got 20 29 if we really need to do this and that's that's it There's one shot you got one shot to take and I do think with the hope that they have for Jo Ingles I think there might have been some concern around the team like alright So if we try for Jake Crowder like is he gonna play like is he playing in that small ball lineup that That's the thing with connet thing comes back and angles comes back We haven't seen hardly any of the honest at center this year and maybe we shouldn't if Portis and Lopez or two of your top So guys, maybe we just shouldn't we also haven't seen any much of the triple big lineup with all three of them But when they get all their wings back They have more ammo to go Yanneset center if if someone's in foul trouble if that's just the way the game is flowing And maybe maybe your maybe your point they don't need another guy if those two guys come back and you mentioned earlier right like I know the The PJ Tucker memories are awesome, right? Like that dude had unbelievable sound clips. He is just super fun PJ Tucker's just fun Pat Conneton was their small ball option like that was the line of things It was it was rarely PJ it was a lot more about Pat and what he was able to do is a three-point shooter And I do think you if you're training for a guy like Jake Crowder or that other wing I think you're gonna wonder to yourself do we actually need that and right now speaking to you on November 8th I don't think they think they need that maybe joinless comes back around Christmas and it doesn't work out and then you're like alright Let's go find that big wing.
Let's do it right now I don't know that they think they need it I do think they'll be aggressive John horse is always trying to if you have 15% championship odds turn to 16 Even if it's 15 and a half, he'll try to make that move. He's always aggressive He's always done that really throughout his career But I don't think they're willing to take that shot just quite yet and we'll see maybe more play Victor Women Yannas unbelievable Zach I watch Yannes on that basis and I don't know that I've ever seen anything like Victor Like there's gonna be teams that are trying to find their way down to lottery Maybe some magical wing. I don't know who it'll even be maybe some magical wing comes available And then that's the guy that the bucks go after but right now. I just don't think they feel like they need it You're right.
They're gonna be more teams whether it's like a charlotte or other teams that decide okay, let's just let's just do it I'll wrap by saying this I pick them to win the title cuz I thought their defense is gonna be awesome and most importantly I just I said over and over again I think Yannes is coming for everybody's throat this year. I think he's I think he's pissed at what happened last year I think the whole team is pissed he's the best player he gets better and better every year and you see already this year He's faster with the ball. He's more creative. He has more moves drop steps You know all sorts of spins and stuff under the rim that you just get better at his passing gets better Nothing the offense it'll be I think good enough when they all get back when middle thing comes back I still would I still feel pretty good about them is my title pick obviously anything can change But but they look pretty legit and they're just gonna keep cruising along You know that I think they're just gonna keep winning a ton of games and fly under the radar and be the bucks Yeah, and I will admit I feel I often feel bad when I when I talk to other people about the bucks because Yannes is so good at this point that we just like don't really talk about it It's just a given right like you have the base of this team is Yannes being awesome And then that leads to me spending time talking to you about their rotation players and 8 through 12 on the rotation Instead of being like hey everyone Yannes is unbelievable.
You should watch it as much as possible They have the best guy because he's absolutely preposterous. You know there was a game earlier this year I think it's 43 against Rock maybe 44 He didn't have a dunk and as you know that is mr. Running dunk right there Yannes dead Kumo and the and it's not and I'm not trying to tell people he shouldn't freeze now or you know He's a great mid-range sure I'm not trying to tell you that the creativity that he has around the rim is absurd at this point in that Rockets game He had a scoop shot right jumped off his right foot finish it with his right hand on the left side of the basket He flipped it up and in from about six feet a total scoop shot if Kyrie Irving made that move We all lose our minds. Oh my god.
This guy's the most unbelievable rim finish we've ever seen Yannes is seven feet tall two hundred forty five pounds and that's in his bag He's got he's got wrong foot wrong side wrong hand Scoop shot layup he can just do that and if you just watch him on a night at a basis The floaters are more real than they've ever been the spin move is somehow sneakier than it's I hit through even tighter gaps It's it's honestly we get to a point where I feel bad they're telling us long to gush in this way about him because he is just that incredible But do I think I'm taking it for granted at times Eric name? You just do incredible work for the athletic. It's a pleasure to talk to you about the fight me walkie bucks Just let's get the offensive a little cleaner a little crisper and the and headed to play this because look the East is no picnic They're gonna have some they're gonna have multiple tough playoff rounds just to have a shot Yeah, you'll be there to chronicle it all you can read all the barracks stuff at the athletic Thank you for making all the time a friend absolutely I'm it. Hey sports fans the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place the ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service And now you can check if you already have ESPN unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls visit activate.espn.com To learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app It's all the ESPN all in one place sign up or activate now All right There's a couple other Eastern conference teams that I haven't really spent too much time on that I wanted to hit on today And we have an Eastern conference specialist here at ESPN He's all dressed up look at him.
He's got the seaport in the background there. All right It's a TV screen. It's a TV seaport Tim Pontep. How are you?
I'm doing well, Zach I told a friend who lost a listen to the pod that I was coming on today to talk about the East and they said I'm glad you're coming on to talk about the East because I'm tired of hearing how great the Western conference is because it's not actually that good This year's going right in with the East versus West ammo just starting right off I what I think is funny is for the first time for the first time probably in 20 years maybe longer Maybe since the 90s you can probably credibly argue that the East is deeper Pretty far down than the West and I think it's just a sign of how finally things have shifted back in this direction where I mean we're gonna talk about a few teams today. They're not exactly the top of the conference and they're still really interesting Yeah, we're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about three teams that in the aggregate I think are playing well, but they're there there's always teams we get to 10 12 15 games in and no matter how many times I've watched them. I'm like I don't like what's I don't know how to feel about this team and we're gonna go in order of Confusion from least confusing to most confusing. We're gonna hit three teams.
We're gonna have your level of confusion It's just my podcast my level of confusion. I got it. I got it We were gonna talk about the Raptors and how they're gonna respond with see a come out see a crazy good year But we can save the Raptors. I think for another day.
They got smoked in general. I'm gonna offend all of Canada now Sorry, they all think they all can ignore that they had a big win over the Bulls on Sunday to say they got blown out on Monday We're just not gonna talk about it to me notorious Raptors Let's start with the defending champion. It's a funny Eastern Conference champion Boston Celtics That's right seven and seven and three beat the Grizzlies on the road last night That's a quality win anytime you win in Memphis a good win. Mm-hmm.
The confusing part is the split first in offense One-t-third in defense after having not only a great defense last year a historically dominant defense Obviously the most important arguably pillar of that defense at the very least the tallest and most shot blocky Robert time Lord Williams is out And you know seven and three is good. They're not blowing the doors off people. They're not rating a seventh in the NBA That's good not great Joe Missoula taking over under strange circumstances at the very last minute So my here's here's my takeaway from watching the team early. Yep.
The defensive numbers I don't bother me I don't really care they haven't been as airtight as I would have hoped even with their best players on the floor They're actually minus four per 100 possessions with Tatum and Brown on the floor together They're winning the solo minutes for each of them by quite a bit just like weird not self-exy mistakes communication mistakes two guys chasing one guy on the Screening action switches that are too late to stop this stuff. You wouldn't associate with them I just think that's all some combination of Malay's Scheme confusion with the guy that they built their entire scheme in part around last year being out He'll be back at some point. It sounds like every time they give an update It's later later. Well, he just real quick.
I actually talked to him on Saturday before they played the next and he's back on the court He's dunking he's doing some running on the court. There is some real progression towards in playing So at least from a self-ex standpoint obviously to get him back soon rather than later that would be a very good thing for their defense And I think when it would be interesting to see when they get him back I do think Joe Missoula was a part of the discussions a big part of them It led to them going to that scheme last year where they put Robert Williams off the ball and switched everything on the ball He just got to work on the back line is this roving terrifying shop like I think we'll see much more of that when he comes back So my takeaway is I think the defense will be there the person I was just too good even if they haven't looked quite as good so far this year They're dead last enforcing turnovers. That's weird I don't really know what's going on there I would be more encouraged by how the offense looks than discouraged by how the defense looks because of course It was the offense that was there undoing in the finals and almost in the conference finals and almost in the second round of the playoffs Both seven game series for them to be first in offense with just an unbelievable number and look the way they do Taking tons of threes very few mid-rangers taking care of the ball Which was again one of their big bugaboos I would be more encouraged by that than discouraged by the defense But we're you net out on all this because again They've been a team you watch them and it's you know they're missing a big piece and you know They have a new coach some two overtime losses to Cleveland been kind of a weird start But seven and three is still seven and three. I mean look I think they've generally played a fairly difficult schedule right they've already got games against you know Miami's obviously struggling with the Miami they played Philly they played Cleveland They put them twice actually they played Memphis like that's a pretty tough stretch through ten games And I think to your point I'm not really concerned about them at all because if you look at who they're rolling out there at the Other big spot.
I mean Luke Cornette has been pretty good when he's been out there But he's had limited minutes and he just had his kid so he's been away. I'm gonna I'm not gonna tolerate I'm not gonna tolerate any Luke Cornette even even implied slander Tim Bondo no slander at all He's been their best. He's been their second best big pretty clearly, but that's my that's my point is there's been a lot of Blake and Blake over played 50 minutes. He's been a disaster when he's been out there He cannot play at this point and I mean no Finally's given them some decent minutes, but you know if you replace the combination of Luke Hornet No, finally and Blake Griffin most particularly Blake with 30 minutes a game of Robert Williams This team goes from being a bit of a suspect defensive team to a terrifying defensive team And also we're really enough in the season, you know The Lakers were I think fifth of defense before they played Utah and they dropped it 12th or 13th in a game It only takes a couple games for things to change pretty dramatically You know the Celtics got drilled by Chicago in games Their numbers are a little wonky compared to where they would be but I'm with you I think the most interesting thing and most important thing is that Malcolm Brogdon has fit in perfectly as the six men off the bench You can provide them the kind of downhill attacking Creative option they didn't have as you mentioned particularly in the NBA finals everybody focused on what's left in that series It was really that their offense just couldn't generate anything in that series against gold state That's why they lost it wasn't that stuff was going crazy at the other end of the court gold state didn't score that many points But the Celtics just couldn't get anything going so Malcolm Brogdon's been really good and offensively they've looked great Great Williams hit in a ton of threes Tatum has taken another step forward Jalen Brown looks great So offensively I think they look really good if Robert Williams is healthy They've got a chance to win the championship if he's not they don't so like to me It's really just that simple they keep out or for healthy Robert Williams is ready to go They're guys ready to go in the playoffs.
They're probably to me the best or second best team in the league and a lot of their season Just is gonna you know pretty much right on how his knee Robert Williams knee comes back That's why I'm not really confused about him at all I think they've been pretty good and sort of right where I would have expected to be yeah Brogdon has been great exactly what they needed there plus eight per 100 possessions with him on the floor Which is which is usually because the lineup that I think a lot of us were most excited about the non-time Lord lineup Anyway is Brogdon smart tatum brown for for that line of spin awful minus 28 and 29 minutes That's 20 minutes is nothing it that's not off to a scorching start and yet Rogan is still that productive in fact everybody for them has a pretty good plus minus in their in their core group except Marcus Mark and part of that is he's shooting 20 something percent from three. I think maybe 30% It's whatever it is. It's bad. I had it in front of me now.
I lost it defensively He hasn't looked quite the same to me But you know again like you look at their defensive numbers They're allowing the six fewest threes the third fewest shots at the rim and the most mid-range shots in the league right That's why I'm not worried about their defense their 10th. They're 10th and free throw rate allowed. That's good 10th in defensive rebounding That's good. I mentioned the turnovers which is strange if you're just getting people teams are shooting the lights out against them from three and on mid-range Jumpers so they're getting a little bit unlucky.
I think their defense is totally fine The smart thing is interesting and and just how they're gonna choose to parse out their lineups like the Grant Williams Al Hordford 4-5 combination is a really good combination Grand Williams is doing stuff off the dribble that we've never seen him do before Yes, you're switchable on defense which perimeter guy do you sit of your core guys probably brought in and wipe both together and you start to Big through those three that's a good lineup I just but but I think the most important trend is their offense and just sort of like what are you? I mean we all know Tatum is playing out of his mind I mean Tatum is here the numbers 31 7 and 4 a block and a half a game a stealing game Shoot, you know what the most important number is 8.3 free throw attempts per game. That's that's the most important number He's gotten much better at attacking. He's not settling as much.
He's getting to the line a lot more That was the thing that was always gonna separate him from being a scoring champion and just a you know really go to Leet score in league if he starts averaging eight nights free throws attempts a game He'll lead the league and scoring might this year like that That's always been sort of the one last thing from that part of his game specifically and he seems like he's gotten that down this year And he's just doing everything to rebounding the defense the big defensive plays the contested rebounds when they gang rebound Boston is an inconsistent gang rebounding team But when their big wings make a concerted effort to come back and just at least get inside that foul line area to like get the just in case Rebounds just in case it bounces here and they start reaching over big guys because they're so long and they're so athletic They become instead of an average rebounding team a really good rebounding team And when they get rebounds and they get out and run they have enough shooting and enough creativity that they're really good I just like I like the way they played starting from the very first game of the season Who they play Philly think Philly right they open with Philly. I feel it off you Yeah, and then they play Miami in the second game They they had a play where they posted up Marcus smart on somebody small probably maxi and I like when they post up smart against little guys He's not a bad post up player It's not it's not something you want to do ten times a game But if you're just kind of searching for something when I change it up and you've got a good match up like throw it to him Same with the very markets is a really underrated passer um, he's probably the best passer on the team and Like you said you get him posted up like that he can don guys up for shots on the percuss pressure when they've got you know They've got a grant out Jason Jalen lineup around him if he's in the post That's you know pretty much somebody's gonna get left open if they come to help and then there's an open shot for three So they fed him the ball and they ran that Warriors action that the Warriors have just killed teams on for ten years now Where they had a big guy and Tatum up near near each other at the top of the arc one pass away from smart And the big guys defender went down to kind of help on smarts post up And so the big guy with nobody on him set a screen for Tatum Tatum runs around the screen Nobody's there because the screen hits he shoots a three it missed but it was like that's the kind of stuff They need to do more yeah They realize last year that when they run any cooperative action involving Tatum and Brown split cuts again Warriors style stuff off the ball they get good stuff any screening action was smart as the ball handler or the Screener because he's gonna have the littlest guy on him And if you switch your toast that they get somewhere and I think they've leaned in to all of that stuff And that that's all that's all a good sign for me offensively and defensively I think they're gonna be there we mentioned smart We're for damn the best they have the best offensive league and smarts taken almost six three's a game shoot 28% And Jalen's taken seven and half three's a game shoot 33% and they're both probably gonna go up five or six percent Point to see so long so like their their offenses is pretty damn good Yeah Jalen has been after a scorching hot start Just good and everyone's kind of waiting for him to make the leap from fringes of the all-mba conversation too thick of the all-mba conversation and it looked like this was gonna be the year He would do that and 25 seven and three good Three assists are just kind of sitting there. It doesn't look like that's gonna move up much Everyone always isolates these plays where it's like oh look at the work he did on his handle It handles tighter this year sandals say his vision's tighter like yeah Maybe and then you look at the numbers like oh 28 assists and 32 turnovers a one-to-one ratio actually a sub one-to-one ratio 45% shooting 34% on three is 52% on twos maybe this is just who he is like just a 20th best player to 28 I was gonna say I was gonna say that's a pretty good player. I was gonna say it's a pretty damn good play No, I've looked he's gonna get a max is an awesome player I just yes He always seems to be on the verge of the putting it all together I remember like three seasons ago Tatum had the month it was like November December where right before the pandemic I think where was like oh my god Yeah, it's January is January 2020.
He really played great. Yeah. Oh my god Jason Tatum is here everyone keeps waiting for that with Jalen has happened horford What a weird year for all of a sudden 60% of his shots are threes that's been we know he's been evolving that way But it's been like 35 or 40% he has four free throws the entire year and yet they're fine offensively I still think I still to me runs through Boston and Milwaukee and their head and shoulders everything else Yeah, I agree. I agree completely and the thing that people need to remember The Celtics were I can't describe how good the Celtics were before Robert Williams heard his knee in March like those two months from late January to late March I would go to these games and they would just win every game by 25 points It didn't matter who they were playing they were obliterating people and even in the playoffs They never were quite the same team when Robert came back like he just didn't quite have the same bounce And you saw it like there were games and his knee would feel good And they would wreck teams even in the playoffs and then there were games where he didn't feel great and they would look pretty Sloppy and they would start to throw the ball around and lose and your point about jailing and his handles is important one The Celtics are still a team as they were in the playoffs They don't turn the ball over.
They're practically unbeatable and they're starting to run the ball They're fourth right now in turnover rate. I mean fourth right that if that settles in at like 11th That's a huge w for them to huge thing and look They're seven and three without Robert playing and with two losses to the Cavs in overtime games that you know You are they are easily good at one ball games under sitting at nine in one and one of them Caris Laverne and Donovan Mitchell were just like making these insane step back three over and over and over again Caris Laverne has a game every year where he scores 40 plus against the Celtics that was his at the garden to and that was his game You know a couple Fridays ago. So look I think they're gonna be fine Robert Williams looks great I should say looks great if he comes back and is healthy and looks good It's gonna be them in Milwaukee and I think they're the two best teams forget the east I think they're the two best teams in the league if he comes back in the selfie It's amazing that a month ago you don't go crisis Robert Williams. Oh my god.
He's gonna be out for how long? Galen already is out for the season. Oh, by the way, we should say one thing I I'm not trying to say it's a good thing It's I wouldn't I probably should say it's a good thing down or I got hurt because it's not obviously but him getting hurt guaranteed a rotation spot for Sam Houser who is a good player good and is a great three points You're in my frankly just be a better fit for the Celtics to play then a mid-30s dinner Alonari, so I'm not trying to say Galen heard is good It's not but Sam Houser playing he's a good solid rotation piece and you talk about their offense when he's whenever he's on the court He gets going like he did against the next the other night I mean you just expect him to make every single shot and it's been a really good weapon for them to have off-adventure Yeah, my point was it was like oh my god, right season crisis Look at the two finalists from last year one team had a post but practice wasn't even a brawl It was a practice assault and practice punch the other teams in crisis the Udoka thing It appears the players are fine. I mean they've expressed some confusion When the Brooklyn reports surfaced a week ago they expressed even more confusion It doesn't appear to be affecting their play the locker room the cold They really like Joe Missoula He was a really good coach and he has a really good relationship with the players And he has a very very close relationship with the most important player on the team Jason Tatum That's right even during last year's playoffs like because Joe Missoula's from Rhode Island So especially during the finals late in the playoffs There was a lot of like you know talk about Joe Missoula questions, you know Because there are a bunch of TV features down there about like hey the local kids coaching the Celtics in the finals Jason Tatum's multiple times talked about him for two three minutes Extemporaneously at finals practices and conference finals practices like obviously you hear people talk about assistant coaches sometimes And I know it was a coincidental thing that he's from Rhode Island But like these guys really like Joe a lot and I think you've seen through these first 10 games or so He reminds me a lot of Brad Stevens and his demeanor and how he approaches things and how he's just very level headed and calm all the time And given the craziness that went on with this team over a couple months before he was the season started I think it's been very good to have a guy with that kind of presence to sort of help stabilize Things the other thing to is these guys have just been through a lot like the Celtics These guys aren't old the Celtics players But like there was all the chaos with the kairi teams at the beginning of their careers Then they make the conference finals in the bubble Then they have the terrible year after that when they finished seventh and get routed by the Nets and it seems like things are going sideways And then you have last year like they've just been through a lot of stuff And I think these guys sort of aren't phase anymore because they've just been through so many things In their NBA careers even though you know Tatum's in his sixth or fifth season and Jalen's in his fifth or seventh season like You know Marcus I think is in his eighth season like these guys have been around for that long but in basketball lifetime You know ages they've been around forever and they've seen just about everything and I think that's helped a lot too What Missoula and Hardy will Hardy are doing at age 34 the jazz are one of the most remarkable stories where I period I know I'm talking about the West but it's this team not being 9 and 3 leading the West is incredible What they're doing at age 34 and Missoula Ascending to this job in the manner and speed with what she did When I was 34 I mean I was like run into the bodega in my pajamas to get lunch that day and when I went out now no And and afraid to like if you had told me I was gonna have a podcast and do this stuff would have been well That sounds so scary.
He just stepped right in was like yeah, I'm 34 I've been preparing for this my whole life both of them did and the circumstances under Missoula though the expectations and the circumstances For him to just step right in at his age is crazy for me and the last Boston thought is like every broadcast now They point out the gumshoeing the Joe Missoula gumshoeing it's time to take it to the next level We need to know what kind of gum how much of it who's buying it for him is he buying it himself? Does he have a gum guy like the Seinfeld episode where I get 10 sounds like a 10 things topic to me where Lloyd Braun had the gum guy in Chinatown And got Jerry Jerry 100 crazy they gum I need to know the answers to that question Let's go to my second team the Atlanta Hawks who ended the bucks undefeated season last night and did so without Trey young They too are seven and three their last two wins are against New Orleans and Milwaukee both impressive wins at home before that They had maybe the easiest scheduled in the entire league and were five and three and it was like yeah What are they five they now they're seven and three looks better. They are 12th in offense 11th in defense So that's kind of like a man and man just kind of a cool. Okay.
Good fine They are plus 13 For 100 possessions with both of their all-star guards on the floor Trey young and new acquisition to John's a Murray That's a great sign when your best line-ups are working. That's great They have not had bogged on Bogdanovitch for one second this year AJ Griffin is starting to do a lot of stuff off the bench for them the last two games at a monster game last night against the bucks That's interesting. That's interesting more winged up more small ball options was always good Jeline Johnson is kind of starting to do a little bit of something particularly on defense and on the glass in the hustle categories That's interesting all those things are good The I don't want to say the red flag, but the interesting thing is there there they're offensively again They're 12 29th in free throws and they're fouling a ton on defense They're spotting the other team a bunch of points on the free throw line 29th in free throws first in turnovers That's a Trey young thing take care of the ball except against Miami in the playoffs You look at their shot selection 29th in three point attempts as a percentage of shot attempts 21st in shots at the rim first in mid-range shots And if you just did their effective field goal percentage based on the location of all their shots They're last they're 30 and obviously they're out shooting that because they have good shooters trays threes are down Dejante's threes are up at a shot to the rim are down Dejandre Hunter still doesn't take enough threes John Collins Is just kind of weirdly become a low usage loss in the shuffle kind of player for this team He's been the biggest sort of collateral damage of Murray coming aboard in 11th in defense I guess feels feels right They might be getting a little bit lucky like opponents have shot really poorly from three and actually really poorly at the rim So they're probably getting a little bit lucky even after these two wins I'm going to look at their defense. I mentioned they fall a lot 21st in forcing turnovers 28th in defensive rebounding the shot selection stuff I mentioned opponent shot selection.
It's like, how are they 11th? What are they good at? I'm confused How good is this team? That's a good question and I'm not sure I mean I think you know look they they beat a you know They did get the Milwaukee win they got the New Orleans win But they did have an incredibly easy schedule to start and look I think it's I think it's expected that there's gonna be some growing pains adding a guy like Jean-Marie You know Trey shooting a little more I think he's up from you know He's up I think a little bit in terms of catching two threes We're playing a little more off the ball.
That's a good thing But I do you know I do wonder you know click a palace had a bit of a slow start to the year I do wonder if he's starting to lose a bit of a step and you mentioned John Collins You know John Collins on a team where you got two high usage guards who are gonna be having the ball out and scoring I just don't know how useful he is as a third or fourth option on offense, right? If that's like mainly what he's gonna be for you I don't know if that is the best fit for what these guys are doing Which is partly why John Collins name has come up in a bunch of trades stuff over the past couple years that he is kind of an awkward fit But I also don't know necessarily who's going out to try to get a guy like John Collins in a trade either He's sort of an archetype that we don't see in the NBA these days You know talks games right now And this is a guy who's averaged 20 a game in the league Who's been a 40% three point shooter who can dunk you into oblivion if you don't pay attention and you watch the Hawks right now You can go an entire game be like wait the John Collins play in the game like he didn't do it He did nothing that I remember he's having 13 points again It's his lowest number since he was a rookie he has the usage rate of like Danny Green It's just I understand why you outlined all the reasons why like the Audrey Hunter's even trying to take up take a larger load And the Hawks are giving it to him and it's just it's just interesting because he's not gonna be a good enough defensive player to sort of recalibrate okay, I'm gonna become a dirty work guy even though like when they made the conference finals That's what he did He doubled down on rebounding and defense and he was good enough at it to impact the game that way I'd love to see that again, but yeah, he just feels he just feels almost a little forgotten and that is interesting Can I read you a Trey Young stat? Yes, so the catch and shoot thing you mentioned is is something to monitor all year because obviously You don't want to like evenly split ball handling between Trey young and Dejont De Murray because Trey Young just better He's just they have the number two offense and legal as your whole office being just Trey young do stuff But he does have to accommodate Dejont De Murray a little bit because although Dejont De is shooting 39% himself on catching shoots which is great because teams are gonna give him that shot around Trey young He's not as good of a shooter not as good of a floor spacer Here's a set for his career Trey young has has about seven off-ball screens a game that he's used as the guy running off off ball screens Six seven it's up to 11 this year. That's good not high enough You like for perspective someone like JJ Redick or Clay Thompson be at like 45 or 40 per 100 We're not asking Trey young to get there.
I guess 20 I was gonna say that numbers got to be like 18 Here are the numbers when he shoots out of an action like that or passes to a team a to shoots 1.18 points per possession that would have ranked top 20 last year among 300 guys who used at least like 50 screens or some Minimal number you zoom out include the whole possession 1.27 points per possession that would have been like number one in the entirely they need to do more of this It doesn't have to get complicated all it has to be is like a second-side pick and roll where he runs off the screen catches Go and they do it out of time out You can tell they want him to do it because this is always a thing to watch with teams It was a thing to watch with the first heat team with LeBron and way to Bosch watch what they run out of timeouts That's right That will tell you what the coach wants and what is probably optimal and watch how that action or if that action fades as the game Goes from timeout to in the flow of the game and that's what's happening with the Hawks right now every out of time I play is trying on running something running off something and then it disappears in the game They need to do it more and I just think regardless this team's gonna have a really good offense And if they get anything out of the Griffin Justin holiday Aaron holiday book Donavich comes back He hasn't played yet by God which they're gonna have enough ammo and what the Griffin kid is doing He's big and strong he comes off screens in the mid-range area and makes floaters is a good shooter like that that he is already I think vaulted ahead of Jalen Johnson maybe in their in their rotation chart even though Dale Johnson feels a more pressing kind of Position only I think their offense is gonna be fine Defensively Dejante Murray has come in and done what they expected which is he's getting it feels like he's getting nine steals every game And getting them out in transition and this team didn't force any turnovers last night 11th okay, like I said they're allowing a lot of threes Not a lot of shots at the rim that's good but teams are shooting well from everywhere that overgressed I guess they're good I guess they're fine. It's hard for me to know. I think they're gonna be a good team I just Ten games in them like I don't I just don't have a feel for it that much Well, it's a lot of pieces It's sort of interestingly fit together right like AJ AJ Griffin basically hasn't played this year until one day when Treyang Was out against the box and he played 31 minutes he went 10 for 15 from the field He hit like he played great gave them a huge boost You know the bench him and Jalen Johnson and when you got a combo really reason that they won that game They really took over in second half and played great so a combo just dunking all over the honest I know he's and you know remember a couple years ago and they played in the conference final See what's the best guy on the team at Guardian? It's like he's a really interesting player too So they've got a lot of interesting pieces but not it hasn't played yet You know one thing I do think is a problem like last night They took 17 free throws without Trey playing on the season their averaging 20 a game It's right has nine attempts a game like they just don't put a lot of pressure on the rim It's a lot of jump shooting 29th and free throws in free throw rate after being like borderline top 10 the last two years and obviously Trey by himself was a free throw machine that took a hit with the we're not gonna give you the call every time you stick your butt out and Someone falls into you.
We're not gonna do it at any time but still he's average in trays average in nine game It's not like trays average in five like you know what no one else is over nobody else is over three So, you know, they are a bit of a tricky team. They feel like they're a team that's destined to make another deal, right? They've got a bunch of interesting, you know, John Collins by Donavich click a Pella They've got all these young guys are kind of interesting They're sort of positioned to make another deal to then have a three guys a setup of Trey de jante and somebody else and Until then I think they're in this really interesting middle group of teams in the east You know, you've got Milwaukee and Boston like you said I think are clearly better than everybody else and then there's some combination of Cleveland, Miami Philadelphia Toronto Atlanta those five teams I think you could sort of put in a hat and they could come out in any order from three to seven and That I think is gonna be really interesting to watch over the course of the year because all those teams They can host a playoff route in winnest years and Obviously, they're not all gonna do that and you know one of us gonna be in the plane tournament and the east is like I said At the top the east has just not had that kind of depth in a really long time And it's it's gonna be really I'm really I don't have a good sense at all like your point I can't tell you which of those teams gonna finish third and which is gonna finish seventh like I really don't have Anyfield for that at all. Yeah, it's interesting because I watch the Hawks and by the eye test I'm very confident in their offense again.
They were number two less you're being very good by the eye test Young and Marie. Yeah, there's gonna be some hiccups like split and ball handling duties What's already gonna do off the ball is Trey gonna move it all off the ball? Or is he just gonna do his thing where he stands there half quarter stands in the corners when he moves right as I said It's really good, but the numbers so but by the eye test I'm like they're fitting pretty well all things considered Like I don't think yeah, I didn't buy that it was gonna be some complex fit for them I thought it was gonna be a little more complex than Garland Mitchell in Cleveland because of the shooting that both of them bring and that has been Obviously beyond expectations. Yep, and then the shot selection is just a little bit of a red flag for me 29th and threes and 21st at the rim It's hard to sustain it's hard to sustain a high level offense with that Phoenix is done at the last couple years Each everything else has to be just perfect for you to do that.
I'd like to see that that's coaching That's personnel that's focused that's all of it together I think that stuff has to come up a little bit for them to be a real threat to make serious noise in the East But I'll give that time and can we finish with the team that you didn't mention among all your Eastern Conference teams Tim Bonthans How dare you? It's fine. I had them at best night in the East The six and six Chicago Bulls who are five and three with Zach Levine in the lineup, which would make them one and three without him in the lineup That's great. Good math.
Good math. Good math by me, and you want to talk about a confusing team These guys are confusing team. I have absolutely zero idea what they are just just none so they're 20th in offense Can't sure find that makes sense They've missed a lot outscrew so shooting like zero percent and right, you know I just knew is sometimes effective sometimes not pat Williams sometimes decides to participate in the offense and sometimes does nothing That's fine sounds right fit 20th rather fun Fifth in defense What this? That doesn't seem this team starts the martyr Rosen and the Cola which mention that Levine or fifth that seems seems a little weird Okay, let's take a look further.
Let's see how the Levine de rose into which of its trio was you know The insofar this year they were out scored last year Rather famously by a single digit amount But still like if you're three best players that you traded all right ethics to get or or Jini Butler or out or that's probably bad. They must be better this year for the Bulls to be hovering floating surviving I feel like your building starts a point Zach minus 37 in a hundred and sixty one minutes. Oh, that's not great What and they're six and six Alex Caruso and Gorin Dragotch despite the fact that Alex Cruzo cannot make a shot Gorin Dragotch can take all the shots apparently in a hundred and forty three minutes with those two on the floor the Bulls are plus 66 a point every every two minutes Yeah, it doesn't feel sustainable to their whole bench everyone on the bench Jivante Green is coming in and making everything They're Jones Jr. Back up center come on in we don't want to ball.
We don't need lots of all the Caruso Dragotch duo Caruso will force enough turnovers for our whole team by himself. I don't understand any of this I don't understand any of it. I don't know what to expect I know if you told me the Levine would miss four games boot your bitch would be just good I think he's been good this year. He's up to 38% from three he's getting some offensive rebounds He's getting to the line a little bit more by his paltry standards derosin a metronome not scoring as many points But 53% on long twos like clockwork like clockwork You told me those three were gonna get out scored that badly in the Bulls would be six and six after 12 games Okay, that's impressive.
Something interesting must be happening something interesting is happening I just have no idea what it is or if it's a thing at all well, it feels like I mean look I think we could say what's what's not confusing to me is that go on Alex Caruso combo that is not a sustainable Way for this to go right that that combo. It's hard to imagine is gonna be Alcorn seems by point every two minutes for the rest of the season and as you said last year We already have a pretty decent sample size of the Levine Demar vu to trio not playing very well together And that's happening again That seems to be a little more consistent to me But I think the story of the Bulls to me goes back to a guy's home because I don't know what it is I'm gonna hype up your work here before the year You wrote your five or six players in the league column one of the players was And Williams Patrick Williams the Bulls chance of being a upwardly mobile team in the East was on Patrick Williams taking a leap Right so far this season when he is on the court the Bulls in 296 minutes are being out scored by seven points per hundred possessions when he's on the bench for our 280 minutes basically half the time They're out scoring teams by 11 and a half points per hundred possessions in other words I'm a moron is that no no no no no no no the point was I Agreed with you that he was an interesting player because he Patrick Williams is the swing piece for the Bulls And I saw a couple scouts I was at the six or sons game on Monday night I saw a couple scouts who were in attendance in Toronto for the rap the first Raptors Bulls game that Toronto won and They both said Jivante Green should be starting and if Jivante Green is you know Jivante when they went to buy the greens man on the court this year the Bulls are Outscoring opponents by eight and a half points per hundred possessions like that that's been a huge swing part of why the bench units have been better and the starting line-up has been bad and You know if you're watching green is gonna clearly out play Patrick Williams and he should be playing more minutes than him and starting over him That's a long-term problem for the Bulls because like you pointed out before the season. They need him to be good He drafted him fourth. He's the one young You know obviously I assume it's good down Terry's interesting the guy that drafted this year but like you draft a guy in the top five you're looking at him as a guy's gonna be a building block for you going forward and You know not too dissimilar to them what's going on in Golden State with guys like Jonathan coming in James Wiseman like You need him to be productive when he's on the court for you at this point And if he's gonna struggle like this and they're gonna struggle with him out there That opens up a lot of questions about where the Bulls are heading and you know to me That's sort of the biggest thing to watch is like what is his evolution going forward?
So far it has not been where they would have wanted it to be at all remember when Russell Westbrook said that Patrick Beverly was just tricking Everybody's just tricking all by running around doing stuff on defense. Okay. Yeah, any There was no I want to know where this is going. This is a this is a wild turn from what we were just talking about Look the bull really confused like there was some Lakers there was some substance to that because Patrick Williams does run around and foul the crap out of everybody and put his team in the Bonus he's also a Patrick Patrick Beverly mean Yeah, Patrick Beverly.
I don't know what the hell I said Patrick Williams must be tricking me because I cannot I just can't quit him at all He can have an entire game where he just hot potatoes the ball away every time he touches it wants no part of the offense and just because of his physical stature and Sometimes real and sometimes theoretical shooting touch. He's down to 34% from three this year I think he's gonna be a come a good spot up three point shooter and and the potential he shows when he's locked in defensively against Some of the best guys in the league. I just can't give up on him. I can't quit him He must be tricking me and I will endlessly remind people hey, you're like the next seven picks after him in the draft Isaac a coral a kongwoo killian haze who cannot make a basket I'll be topping Denny obdia jail and Smith and then you get to debon of a cell in Tyrese Albert and it hurts a lot But those say yes those there those next few it's not like it's not like you look at that pick and be like well The Bulls just obviously whiffed there was someone they should have like someone who was in play there that they should have definitely Some people were lobbying for a hella Burton to be taking that high that was a real thing that was happening and Patrick Williams I wrote it in this piece he's younger Then I think eight or nine of the guys who were picked in the first round of the draft that just happened like it just it's it's if it's not Immediate if it's not happening by now in his third year.
That doesn't mean the Patrick Williams. We've been not gonna happen He's that young still you know who your minds may have is Marvin Williams just as long as you don't say Kawhi Leonard I will accept any answer. It's not we need to put that one to bed. That's definitely put to bed I think he's Marvin Williams who like for a long time was a very solid rotation forward Could play the three and the four decent defender became a pretty good shooter right like that he looked apart Right was another very high pick very young raw to woolsie forward became a very solid long-term pro But wasn't a star wasn't close to a star was just fine and it's early like look I certainly didn't see Larry marketing becoming whatever he's become this year I said I said it last week or when I had we talked about Utah.
I can't I sold my lauer marking stock I gave up and I just didn't think it was very good and he's I look he's made me look foolish a series We're great. I said he's a veteran of the five most intriguing players column That was that look like three years ago. I think he was in that column he and Wendell Carter junior were in it together and Both of them are now developing elsewhere outside of Chicago. Yeah, I mean look so again Like there's there's time doesn't mean like you said his career is it over?
But if you're the Bulls coming into this year I thought like I said you were I thought you nailed it with him being on that list because he's the kind of guy that had the Chance to really be a swing piece and if he's just this we're trying to green probably should just be starting over him and playing More than him that's just not a great sign for a bull's team It's already got lonesome on the shelf with you know still doesn't you know Billy down to the other days not running yet It does not seem like he's coming back anytime soon Zach Levine is already missing games with some kind of issue with his knee from the surgery in the offseason You know Nick vu's a bitches of expiring contract of ours in his mid 30s Like there's not they're just kind of stuck unless he really takes a step and All the other stuff that's going on around them That's really the one story that matters and you know if I'm a bull's fan right now I'm looking at it and thinking each you know this is not what I'm hoping to see from this guy Not yet the last the last week he's shown signs of life his first five or six games of the season Yeah, good game. Good game here in Brooklyn. That's probably the best I've seen him play like he's he said some flashes He the first five or six games of the season. It was like oh my god Is he gonna do skin do anything?
Yeah, so you're gonna just exist out on the court and count as you're like you were required to have five players On the floor. He's gonna be our fifth guy It's just I just they're just a confounding team again They're five and three with Levine and he hasn't been the same guy 22 four and four on 43% shooting 44% from three and less than 45% a little bit from two and that's the oh oh that's the oh He's shooting 45% at the rim. Exactly. I mean is shooting 45% at the rim You got to think that's got to improve well You're either so there are two ways to read that number one is the knee is the knee is troubling him and you can't elevate like he's like He's used to and there's been a lot of one which is which he's basically said is true Right and that'll improve and so this is for them to be six and six with that is is positive or is gonna be like that the whole season If so we're in trouble I just think in the first year of a two hundred plus million dollar five-year contract.
That's yeah, that's true I just I'm kind of again baffled but also confused all I'm baffled but also baffled but also They are confusing but I'm also impressed that they're treading water with all of this sort of injuries and noise and weirdness There's a certain toughness about them that that I kind of like there a lot of their players like Caruso There should be an all-star event where players try to execute a dribble handoff when Caruso is guarding the guy taking the ball Because he will blow that thing up eight times out of ten to sing a lot of Guys Junior gets out there and mucks things up like they just and they play even their guys were not defensive players the Rose and Lucha bitch Levine they play with a certain swagger and confidence even boots of it We'll just keep on tossing up threes when he's slumping they just kind of have gutted out Six wins so far out of 12 games. I'm kind of impressed Dragotch another guy was swagger like your gorn dragotch is like y'all he plays like he's still squarely in his prime every Yeah, Toronto do you Toronto the Toronto versus gorn dragotch rivalry is like the new most fun random rivalry Toronto fans blew him hate him It fuels him there's there don't even know why they don't really like each other except he didn't play there and it was weird blah blah blah He plays like he's still with the confidence of prime gorn dragotch who was the proverbial whirling dervish Whatever the hell that is when he was in his prime. They're just kind of And I think Billy not even teams have always been like this They're just tough and purposeful and how they play and it's made me wonder Like are they banking some of these wins? And if they get a little healthier and things start to click together Are these wins gonna look important in retrospect or are they just sort of lucking their way into more wins and they should and they're gonna fade away?
I don't know the answer, but I'm in I'm really impressed that they're six and six Yeah, I mean look they especially was acting in and out in the lungs Oh, like they've gotten off to a decent start there. They're treading water, which is good But I think the bigger thing is just where is this team going right like they trade Jimmy Butler to rebuild they rebuild and now like They're I mean I think we both agree They're not in the top 17s in the east they're pretty clearly not in the top 17s in the east So they're down in the mix with teams like whatever But that's what I thought like I had them I said I wrote in my tears piece It's hard to argue that they're better than any of the eight teams listed above them in that piece Well, those teams were Miami who they're above in the standings and Miami frankly has done nothing this season to suggest to you that They're just a sleeping giant waiting to explode and I think they're better than this But they haven't inspired a ton of confidence and Brooklyn who we need to say anything further about Brooklyn So maybe Chicago by default the two sweetest words in the English language will be a top 17 I don't know like but there are other teams below them Bob nicks the nicks are competing, you know Yeah, my point is my point is they're not they're clearly not a team that we look at at least I look at and think it's gonna win a playoff series anytime soon And their core guys are all either in their late prime or in their prime right? Zack tomorrow, which is a free agent the Mars in his early mid 30s Zack is in his prime Obviously has this knee issue to worry about and I just I just don't really know what the like Are they just gonna sort of settle in and be like what Washington has been like is that sort of what they're destined to be? Oh, I just don't know what you and I have been united in that since they made the future vision to Rose and transactions You know I immediately said would I would if you asked me Will they ever win more than one playoff series in any season while to Rose and in which of it you're still here?
I would say no and you double you tripled out and said how about it with a everyone one period? I might say no, I think we're all united in that the long-term stuff has settled in I think that's just sort of I think even their hardcore fans would accept that that's probably Largely true, but can we enjoy it? Can we make maybe one longer than expected run while this part while this course still sort of in their prime and to Rose It just seems like one of those guys who's gonna be so good He's just it's just gonna be like 42 years old and I'd be like yo, you know I get buckets anymore Let me show you young kids how we used to do it when this when this whole area of the court that you don't even set foot on Used to be my prime scoring to I just feel like he's gonna get buckets and the way he's developed as a playmaker It's been awesome too. Like he's become a really really good passer He's just super fun to watch.
I mean and look there They're benching has been fun. You mentioned Billy down and makes a great job like Maximizing what they have I mean there it like you said I just they're confusing to me because I'm not sure what the The point is kind of a strong word, but I just it's hard to know exactly where they're headed Well, I got yeah, we all we got we were in alignment there I'm I'm kind of saying maybe they'll be a little this six and six artists maybe consider like maybe there's a little sort of more Gumption and toughness there and maybe this experience along the way will be a little more fun By the way, you know my favorite tomorrow's thing is more than the pump fake more than mid-range shots No one in the NBA is as committed to a bit of comedy as the martyr And most people don't notice it as the martyr Rosen is to when he shoots the technical free throw and there's no teammates on the lanes He will give invisible teammates the high-fives every single time just high-five in thin air He is in stone-faced. He's not laughing. He just this is what happens when you shoot those you get people high-fives There's nobody here.
I'm gonna get the high-fives. I love it. All right, Tim Bontemps. What are you working on next?
We're gonna be next what should we be looking out for you? Wrote about the Warriors bench for the Wind Horse to collective column today. It's not going well. Is that the theme of the column?
It's going badly. It's not going well and do they have to think about making trades at some point? Bro about that to a quick to pod every Friday with our pal Bambic man and Brian and just bouncing around to Eastern Conference Games Just about every day. It's very fun right now to be in the East.
There's a lot going on Will I see you a lot of fun games going on and there's other stuff also going on? I should see you what I used to playfully many years ago 10 years ago referred to as the toilet bowl tomorrow between the nicks and the nets Yes, I will be at next nets. Believe it or not. There's nothing going on.
You know, it's crazy before we go It is amazing that you and I have both been in and around New York a long time and finally back full time in the city The next being the boring competent functional NBA team in New York City is That's been an interesting development. I'll just leave it at that You know what else is an interesting development next fans? Little little teaser for the next fans all of us you and me all together who have been screaming for Tom Thibodeau So dude, can you just try it try the ob top and Julius Randall front court? Just I know you need a rim protector I know this is outdated I know like Todd Gibson's like sitting around the benches your security blankies and watching it now obviously I know you got Jericho Sims and Mitchell Robinson and I say hard just try it and you know what they tried it the last two games with Mitchell Robinson hurt they tried it they rallied behind it to win one game from with a furious fourth quarterback I can't remember who was against their Philadelphia on Friday.
I was at both games They played it again last night Nick's fans maybe games in a row Philadelphia Boston and Minnesota Boston Maybe it'll last maybe the last Tim Bond time. So see you at the toilet