everyone and welcome to the Nodium North podcast. It's the Nodium podcast that is hosted by Northern nerds. I am one of your hosts Sam. I am the other host Paul and I don't think we can call them guests anymore but we are joined by our family shall we see the people that we kind of like what we can't get rid of and they kind of follow us around now.
I did do pests basically. Well I caught poachers. You can't kill me. Yes so we are joined by the wonderful Grim who is not in drag night.
He wasn't drag early so he's managed to get himself out with that. I attempted to keep it on but I really needed chocolate so I had to go up with news agents and I was like no no. They're not ready for this. And we are joined by the wonderful Sonia.
We do try and get Sonia on as much but she is as busy as we can as well so hopefully we'll be seeing a bit more especially during the charity podcast as she's tall as she is free and wanting to annoy the world with us as well. Oh wait yes. So yes. Walk a kitten up and do it on that.
Right. Walk a kitten. Shuck it. It's not a type of podcast yet.
I'm not going to be a little bit too long. Where we try and lure people at the vans with puppies and kittens. It's for charity. Is that what it says on the back on the side of your dirty pants on you?
It's for charity. We'll see another. We have been invited to the BBC as well so Grim is going to be going to a BBC office so that's going to be interesting. Oh that's going to be so fun.
I wanted to see her at Gore. I like the idea that we've had to have like sit down sort of like okay now what do you not say when you're on the BBC and I'm like do you know where everyone else is? I'm like it's actually the idea of just being like can't say fuck the Tories. So it's like so can I wear a t-shirt with it on or something?
Oh well they do want to take photos over the first for their social media as well so I don't think that we'll just sort of get Grim Blurd out so we'll have an image and Grim this is a blurbish. We have a really good relationship with the BBC and then the second of them actually meet this in person like no we don't. I know this. We can do the same thing as you Sammy where they're like oh I think I told her the next fact.
I was really shocked at my Grim for the first time. Tiny doll or something. I don't know. Just kept looking up on my god.
It's a thought. So yes it's because with the magical podcast I'm sitting down while doing this because it didn't cross me mind. The head that is Grim but yes so how are you Sammy? I'm good that is a really good question because I need to ask the collective how are you doing and when you've been watching?
Well I've spent the last three weeks watching Angel. I will not like every night I finished work I put Angel on I have been Angel heavy I'm still pumped and ready for this. I'm having heavy and pumped things that I associate with Angel anyway but that's just David Barany. Well I'll talk about his fellow's just yet but that's fine.
Someone was actually saying like when I was recording earlier I'd make Ryan assisting me doing recordings in half-store and he was pointing out that the reason why Angel is constantly behind objects or sitting down in season five is because he pumped up a bit and I never noticed that and I'm going to have to be well I don't really want to watch season five again and but you know just to check whether it's true you know we'll get on to it in a second but well then Angel I'll be watching it in green. I've been watching a lot of Star Trek because we do a whole podcast about it and I do not know for Treking up North. I've been watching Lower Decks I have my comfort show while I've been really stressed and busy and stuff is Deep Space Nine so I'll be watching a bit of that but it's mainly just been crazy YouTube stuff like I'm watching this wonderful channel I can't tell you the name of it so but it's basically it's because it's Japanese but it's it's a guy and it's a guy it's like a true crime thing but it's like a sort of you know oh well unsolved murders and stuff but it's all from Japan so it's because he speaks Japanese he's able to translate the articles and like you know translate everything to English and it's stuff that isn't big enough to make it over to the west so it's like you know you're like oh you haven't heard any of this people but I've never heard a YouTuber who sounds like a serial killer like that much the way he does stuff is the most innocent seer I've ever heard like it literally sounds like feigned like empathy right the whole thing and he's just like oh no the whole family was killed what a tragedy I feel like I've seen this before we do it anyway watch the description of stuff just but he is a single guy he has the track and murder and literally just expecting him sitting there in his box of shorts or something being like and the blood was everywhere I love the story but I literally he will the bodies will be found at some point the voices of the keys screaming yes um tell me clearly he's not screaming yes um fuck good will hope does anyone know what time you're writing earlier if I know he's on the flight now is he didn't he post that he was there I was talking he said I messaged him yesterday at about like eight o'clock and he said my flight is in like 30 minutes like 8 p.m so he must have got there it's sort of like but he sent pictures of him in his morning whatever time the pictures he sent was from London yeah but you wouldn't be going to direct flying to a new council or you have to go to London um but then you've got to think he's got the time difference as well so christ knows where Michael isn't in the timeline now let's just say it's 7 p.m the day after I think he's in America so we'll do two recordings Michael got their CF yay Michael's day I'm not logged into YouTube so I can't see the chat but it is is the chat around the chat so yeah we need to ask them whether good will got there or if he's abandoned somewhere you know what percentage of what you think imagine these much it's just like or see how they actually went to America you just come down to 10 for these back yarns in fuck the fuck my bastards give us a little time for them to do you reckon in between weeks something I want to pick it up that's it sorry thinking yourself it's okay oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh good friends associate I was one oh my god what am I good friends that's fine and well you've been watching that oh I've got something special that you've been watching because I'll go first if you have I'm trying to think I watched um one piece like say I've got a video with uh Tony and Donna where when Tony edits it to talk about one base I absolutely loved it I've been watching the anime the only thing with the anime it is that it's in but fucking 15 episodes to have a fight is fucking annoying as fuck um yeah it's not it's not Dragon Ball Z bad is it where it's like this fight will be spread over 10 episodes yeah oh god I'll just kill him it's like they're starting a fight and it's like yeah it's getting to the end of the fight and it's like no they're still fighting no I'm actually pressed forward and just in because it's the same dialogue in every episode I will kill you I'm a stretchy man great and then it's like I find that really difficult with Dragon Ball Z especially where it's like I liked it but you were just like could we just have the cliff notes or you know like literally the episode what happens in the freezer saga it's literally about three paragraphs of stuff and yet it's a hundred episodes you're like okay well I finished one piece last night finally we've taken our sweet last time with it and but while we were watching it last night because my husband's all caught up to date with the manga which is ahead of the anime while sitting watching it he's reading the latest issue right so I was like what happened he was like you don't want to ask and he also inadvertently managed to ruin quite a bit of it for us without knowing he was doing it I hear what happened on it yeah he didn't mean but I wasn't really picking up on it until later on when it was like because it was you know the whole thing with them got I didn't realize that was like a big reveal until it happened and I went oh that would have been nice to like not know what to do to be further I did the same in Nick all the time as well the bi-artisans but exactly it's not like he's doing it on purpose it's just he's dead excited for us because I watched a one-piece film a few years ago and for all I like some of the characters I didn't get what was going on because obviously I didn't really understand the whole universe so I think he was just really excited that I was like kind of in this world with him but we got a new song I saw Lee doing a stream over one piece game the other week Lee Davis on Twitch and yeah it means funny I mean I scored that idea I had no idea what was going on like who are these people what is this like you know it's that was the point I think that when I was in Japan like years ago like I didn't realize how big one piece was but they had like a one-piece pop-up store where it was just an entire store just for one piece and I'm like whoa like it's like like you know like the Harry Potter stores that we have and I was like I did not realize there was that much stuff like I said the enemy in now I think it's about 1,200 episodes and they've just announced that they're going into the final era like the Evers normally last for like six seasons so there could be quite a lot of still left to go a long long time yeah but it's a hard beat where people haven't aged and you're like why is this guy still a teenager I think the two we've been with the series lasted 25 years or something and it's set in a decade period and you're like hang on hang on so you're something exciting happened every single day the two evolve like apparently but the only thing the good thing about Netflix they have announced that there's got season two I was being greenlit so we are getting a season two because I was a bit worried because the season one cost 160 million to make which is oh wow crazy so to do season two it's only the cost is only going to go up but apparently they are looking at about 12 seasons of the live action so there's going to be a lot missed out that's a lot but there's going to be a lot of money but it did well and like I'm not going to do any spoilers I know if you've watched it yeah there's a few people in the chat saying that they've not they've not yet to watch it and it would be a shame to have what happened to me happen to them but yeah so um watch one piece of it is quite good I did watch uh did his dispatches thing last night which I don't think I was going to do much detail but it was interesting as well because even though it was a difficult watch the code that way but I'm not that thing that's one of the best best way I can put it because there is a lot of controversial stuff coming off oh there's so many so many sides and the Russell about uh comedian oh how did I not know I didn't know I didn't really tackle it's not right but it's just not just documentary I think people know yeah it's not a secret yeah he's he jumped on it straight away yesterday morning on socials yeah before it was really supposed to know yeah he was covered it's right on it because he's using the whole am talk in the truth now so clearly they're all lying um but then he had to be obviously he had his side he had their side and I just couldn't be asked to watch it I'm not talking to him in the morning so I don't know the story but the fact is you can be talking the truth and still be a fucking deviant so it's this idea of just being like making you innocent it's like you know that whole thing you're going okay cool but you can still be a bastard in the bedroom or something you know to be found John is living proof of that I'm not saying John is Russell Brandeck but let's leave it at that uh well I haven't been watching much because I've had just a fun in the background and I've been reading but did anyone get a chance to see the programs that have been affected by the strike um not that they're going to be canceled or any one has been canceled which was the league of their own right they got reliqued for a second series and that has been taken completely off the table for stranger things potentially could be hitting us in 2025 possibly 2026 I've heard that I know that at ease of this week for stranger things there was a little poster with Sean um Sean Dalton uh Horton's smashed up and everything like that um yeah the positive side of that the things I've been reading this week is people who host the own shores doing things for the staff like John Oliver what a hero he's been doing my life life stand up shores where he's not been getting any of the money all the money is made from his life stand up shores has been peony staff from his devia crew so they don't have to come back to work so they can strike and then you've got the other side of it where Dr. Moll has gone back to work and let's not talk about them hey about the positive one that's the thing no one uh what what are they called like no one likes a scam yeah I mean it was I think it was like was it Kim Kardashian or something was basically like oh well I'm working and it's just like to tweet this you know tweet on the 7th American Horror Story um but I actually to be back I fell hard out of love with uh American Horror Story this is not respecting the strike and it just makes me go yeah I'm definitely watching not watching this shit anymore uh a because they go hey we're in the season but we only have a plot worth four so let's just stretch it out every single well that's just American Horror Story from season two onwards you knew how to see you know what's out of the series you just never knew how to enter it ended that's like English ended yeah but the person I want to mention as well is that I think it's 20 collect um 20 collect love 20 collect she's been claiming herself out to do dinner dinner dinner dinner dinner party to scream out here for 10,000 pounds and then here's the one strike I think the best one I've seen okay is I don't I forgot the actor's name but it's the one from Game of Thrones where basically she's charging like nearly three three grand three grand and she will follow someone around for a day with a bell oh yes I'm just like yes just Hannah Waddington because she is a fucking legend so there is a lot of stories coming out of the strikes as well like a lot of and there is some there is some work that you go to and it should really be all over with soon because I know the big ones at Prime and Netflix they have not agreed upon anything for those other people who have in the hope and that they'll start following they'll follow in when Disney fall everyone else will that's thing as soon as Disney Key of every fall bubble so yeah pretty much but it should be all it's like we're saying on the trek podcast every single week is the idea or strange new worlds lower decks are absolutely amazing they are so they are the best track we have had in decades and it's only happening because of how good the writers are because how good the writers are how good the actors are and if we want quality like that we need to pay them properly like it's we can talk about getting AI scripts and stuff but if the idea going hey that's cool just because you're putting a show out doesn't mean I'm going to pay money or watch it if it's terrible but I think the people at the top don't realize that they're like oh well we put a show out why is no one watching it you're like because it's shit you know yeah they just look they're just like you know the dollar didn't they didn't have fixed-time Ramsey we could have managed the hall of break and bad just with the eye and the whole cast who runs straight went are you fucking crazy?
if the eye took Skyler over it I would then watch the written process. That was true yeah I was like taking out if it could erase her from the telly that'd be great yeah but well good that was talking about TV shows because we came here to the end to discuss like one of the great great ones and um Sammy would you like to do you just learn? Oh I don't know well like now we'll use the fun tutorial that's fine and I should really do it right at the beginning before we've even said hello or shouldn't that because that's great well people in love like us well people in love you can tell that this game has been done well everything discussing today's episodes our opinions and our opinions alone if you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode please come and join us on the discord page comment section off his book group where we can have an open discussion what we've warned have is anyone coming from it's our opinions are wrong we can all agree to disagree and find them so let's keep it fun keep it kind and keep the tux behavior out of notism well you're very well said down here thank you guys get instead I'll buy two kittens because I've walked them off sorry I've got dinosaur I mean a she's just looking up on his thing what's the crazy woman's yes I will one day my child I will one day um so yes um we're here to talk about the great tv show angel and all three out of four of us have seen the show um you'll be in the comments section who it is yes this to me and I want to say something very controversial here is probably the second best spin-off tv show we have ever had who was the first for Asia oh yeah you know what you just blow my mind with that absolutely Paul but yeah yeah I agree in some ways even though Buffy is one of my favorite shows of all time I can't disagree that angel is better in so many ways so yeah I don't I don't believe that angel is better than Buffy but it's still the quality of it and how good it is is far better than any spin-off you know aside from Rachel like it's yeah actually very very very much so that I totally feel like Rachel is a spin-off that's yeah because Joey was I was wondering if we don't talk about that I'll stand by and say Joey wasn't as bad as people I'll hold on hold on is I bet the feed cuts off and Graham went top somewhere I knew it existed the Simpsons bit when it said you went through it I have to go now I hope that it needs to be but I have to say I'm I'm really pleased about this episode a because it's probably the first one that I recommended we do that actually made the cut because all the ones that terrible ideas that Paul was like no let's not do that's a terrible that's that's a terrible one that was a brilliant idea but Jake messed it up yes but to be fair nerds nerds only have like they have good long-term memories not short-term memories so maybe we can get away with it possibly we can make a quick so who watches the twitch anyway nobody yeah you get away with it like next year or something because I thought it was brilliant they'll they'll have forgotten by then you know we'll do the men in black thing I'll just give everyone a epileptic fit oh I've just remembered what you talked about yeah yeah I think you might have been in it when we yeah yeah I was yeah I was one of those moments where we had brainstorming the brainstorm was like this really will work this will work and yes I like the idea that we're suggesting ideas is literally like that bit in Loki where he's like oh anyway let me know that's not like so I give you a trip in pod pass what more do you want a 60-foot inflatable hamster and all of the many dime bars from Ikea that I can possibly and it's more than you're expecting but yes but coming back to Angel so yes um Sonia did hit the nail on the head for me as well although again I loved Buffy when it was like I say a culture icon first watching round because the first season of Angel is a tough watch because it is trying to find its fate but then when you watch it after that like it's one of those where the more you watch Angel the better it gets it's it's very very much going I do think it got more growth and took more risks than Buffy because Buffy stayed in the same format in the same process this is the Angel never stayed still they were like right how can we push the boundaries and what the push the characters and this was like Buffy was very much like say character driven sure but when you think about the journeys each of the characters go they don't really shift too much like in five seasons of Angel each one of them characters goes from ear to whatever zed kind of on such a journey and it is just like mesmerizing to watch and as Sonia has been trying to go back through it over the last few weeks I've been I got through the first season again and watched a few key episodes like say watched a few of the final season and all Graham said uh season I don't know if Graham eventually they didn't like the five season five or did they have issues with season five? I don't think maybe we should just bury it in the backyard and set it on but I wouldn't mind if that happened right you know it's a no I think season five will get into it but season five is very much what the hell is going on it is very there isn't really it makes this things up too much to the point where were they trying to do a different show and it's also the fact of it's one of those ones where you know when you get in shows where you go oh this character was the glue like this actor was the glue losing Cordelia is a massive wound in the show because charisma carpenter is so fantastic and like it is one of the clebrous things that I think they've ever done or taking her from Buffy and going okay we need a really really strong character in this I'm knowing that it was Cordelia because you know I'm losing her and then realizing just I think if they kept up how it was it'll be fine but then season five just goes like you've changed too much like what the hell like you know and then when we get stuff like a liri you're just like going I mean it's great I love a liri but you're like okay just just let it breathe maybe you know I think with season five the new it was going to end so they crammed as much stuff in season five so a lot of it felt a bit disjointed like you've got some amirs and arcs and some amirs and set bases I agree to what the elirium could have been a whole season by yourself like the whole transition and moving that would have been quite an interest because it doesn't have to be like characters like that like um what was the was it Adam Tara oh no Adam yeah the she got a whole season type he got a whole season and what was the one that was like the god that kept on switching glory that was glory because glory because this is the thing though where it's like the fact of like Eliria isn't a villain in a weird way but she is and it's just I just think it's one this is the problem season five is so shit in places but then it has these amazing bits where you're like oh why wasn't this given more room like like the Fred and Eliria is absolutely amazing and stuff like Spike coming back is awkward but works really well but he's just like going oh the whole them taking over the bloody law firm is just all yeah I don't get it like literally you just have sorry I'm going way too far into this way too quickly but it hurts me um but you know it's like we have Wolfram on Heart this amazing antagonist for the whole thing we have Lila who is an amazing antagonist we have all of these hinted at sort of bosses and stuff and all of this stuff they could do with it and then they just don't they don't do anything with them for ages and then he just goes oh yeah we just killed them all and then they just all die and season four spoilers again it's been 15 years it's been 15 years but in the past 20 years before now I was like I need to rewatch it all to refresh my memory and we got halfway through season four and I said to him I was like I want you to watch the podcast with the views you know I've mute it do not listen to what we discussed I made a mistake of um excuse me I played a game recently where you are a man it enters a sesame street type place where the mason puppets are all alive and you've got to like hit them with a wrench it was hilarious and amazing but this reminds me of the puppet episode of Angel so I made cocksy watch it this was before I started rewatching the season so we've seen that one episode from episode season five and we got halfway through season two and he was like I need to make a conservation he's like that episode you maybe watch Spike was there and after the last season of puffy so yeah he's like they're all working in Wolfram and Heart Cordelia's not there and I was like yeah I kind of fucked this one but this is what I mean like but way too many changes yeah all at once yeah but the whole Wolfram and Heart thing like these are amazing characters that they could have done stuff with and then they just kill them all off in one episode and then they go oh yeah we killed off all of them and it's a massive deal that Wolfram and Heart is like gone now and stuff in like you know uh the city and then in season five they just go oh yeah actually no it's just we stocked off this again but it's a totally different office to the previous one and all of the staff are back and you're like what like that I don't get that like yeah but just to come back because that was a quite good episode that Sonya mentioned I don't know if Sam have you ever seen the puppet episode well I'm sure you're a clip now so it's gonna be a clip loaded up now it is basically Angel and Spike's fight as Angel as a puppet so I don't know if you can say that now I can't you're a bloody puppet!
so there's a good fight north this and this is basically was it smile time the episode was a call yes and basically the Angel goes to investigate because it's like really dark because that's like the life force from kids for the TV and that stuff is like what is he doing so unhappy you're a puppet yeah but yeah but yeah so this is this is the thing I got annoyed at this episode because it it's a wonderful thing but it's very jarring within the actual season and it doesn't fit where it is in the actual flow of the season but you can tell it's like the musical episode of Bocky where he was just like I want to do something that no one's ever fucking done and it very much is that and I don't think it hits as it should have done but it is hilarious it's just it is just clapping the thing they're like having that and then watching season two and being like this used to be dark you know it still was quite dark but like there was funny bits that you go back through the whole like sure there was a little bit humour and that's where I got even the lighting though even the actual physical darkness you're like yeah why is that because of right in the litances and vibe but yeah that's right because I think I get the wolf from an heart's mental look like like sterilized you're not about to look like a law firm in terms of all the previous seasons it always was so dark as were the characters and like you know you're talking about that character development in the archives it really interesting the early on when Graham was talking about to be completely different and we're talking about the dispatches thing and Graham said you know just because someone tells the truth doesn't mean that they're free from being a deviant and I always think that can be said of most the characters in Angel like they do the right thing but they're dickheads and I love that I love that people can't be dicks in that show because if one's morally good and 100% pure with exception to the odd kind of plot line but in Angel's child's killed a man yeah but he's just a bad but wasn't this because like the whole set and Ellie and the grinds like type of thing yeah it originally when I first like the first comeback it felt like it was like a cop shore like with the first season it was very much monster of the week I know what some of you know like I know because the reason I'm looking at the building is because he's talking about a law firm and I like I have a bear understanding on Angel and it's for others it's me I've not seen any episode of Angel whatsoever and but I always thought it was kind of like a monster of the week thing and it's just like it's just like you was talking about like this law firm season one was like was like Buffy and I think they realized pretty quickly couldn't have the same show twice yeah to do something different because it wasn't but it wasn't what it worked I didn't see it at the same time it was nothing because people wouldn't know because people would have compared the two and what was smart was that they had them in the linking so you had Buffy followed by the episode of Angel but Angel was very much very different shore after Doyle left I felt yeah Doyle Doyle left I think I just want to talk about that because season one is incredibly dark like to the point where it's like not only dark you live but just going whoa this is really serious compared to Buffy like not even Buffy season one was but it wasn't because it was like Teen drama but it's this idea of I don't know if it worked like I felt it was too dark and I'm just like if they'd carried on like that I think it would have struggled but the problem is I think it's very much like Babylon 5 which you know unlike Angel is a terrible show and quite me quite many nerds that's and but basically like what happened in that is the main actor couldn't like had a nervous breakdown and they couldn't do the next season with him so he left the show and then they just had to rewrite everything and be like oh the main guy that all the plots revolve around has left and I don't think they picked up the pieces particularly well from it but with Angel they were expecting to continue with that trio of basically Angel Cordelia and Doyle and obviously they had to fire Doyle because he was a drug addict and a massive alcohol substance problem no well he didn't I actually watched season four episode 10 just now before this and it actually said in loving memory of at the end of the episode four seasons later he died yes they find them they were like look you you cannot be upset you are always drunk and always like you know like you're not professional like just Shane yeah and then they were like oh well the whole plot is centered around he's the one who has the visions he's the one who gives them jobs and stuff so they moved it to like Cordelia in season two well the end of season one and the whole show blossoms from this yeah and you're like you're like I can't imagine it continuing like season one because you know like it feels like they sort of grappled for characters because season one has so many characters like side characters that it just forgets that's one of the person I wanted to talk to because in the season one I loved her character in there as well because Kate I thought it was like a great foil and yes and although I kind of love an anteater like in my current rewatch I said it's like you know I've always kind of been on her side but this time I'm kind of here yeah she's very unreasonable she's very unreasonable and like she blames Angel even though it's it's very much of it as time it's almost like it's almost like you're kind cause my father to die so now I'm gonna basically base my whole life on making sure your kind isn't around my mind that whole line's in what do you mean my kind it was very brave to use that but yeah you didn't think of like demons and vampires as like say a lesser like say a lesser beans and that was like bringing in like a racial stereotype you know that I didn't expect from the show which I thought was great the only thing that did get me sad when it comes to the character is the blow off we got with her I know it makes you enough to do another show so I thought they might have killed her off or made like a great ending but the fact that she tried to kill itself and then Angel saves her and then she just disappears off in the sunset never to see it never to see it never to be seen again and I thought that was a bit sad I thought because the way they built her up to the first season I thought we needed a better payoff for her so yeah and they did that with some characters but like other characters as well they got a mears and like send off like bringing dollar back like how powerful is like say that like that relationship become and with everything I will actually say that I think that you know it was hindered it was hindered by some characters because I'm gonna I'm gonna put it out there I don't like lawn lawn I you shut your mouth yeah the thing is though the I love lawn but not the way he's portrayed like it's it's this idea I'm just gonna have my lawn about now I'm sorry and but it's basically I hate his singing voice I hate people who sing like before you get in your run before you get in your run because Sammy lawn was this makes it he was the most demon in character in Angel he was basically he was great yes yes and his whole presence in the show was if you sang he could read you like like almost like a fortune teller he could read you over from the singing so he used to have like a karaoke bar that all the demons had a go to the singing to know the future and funny enough I've got another clip here of the angels of the singing voice I know what we're not gonna hear it so the lovely guys who's watching will get here this is basically Angel singing Mandy so basically if you want to listen to this box I mean it is absolutely awful he is torn death and unfortunately the sound isn't shared through zoom so it's my own youtube the youtube people can hear it so you can turn your youtube on you can probably just go here it now but are you not talking over it here it's it's both so you can hear what it should be fine I don't think it's I don't think I'm gonna go down loud but look how uncomfortable he looks I recognize the green guy and I've watched it like I've watched it and seen the episode where I should be here instead of me and because he absolutely loved Buffy and Angel so I do know who that is sorry Graham go back on your saw box yeah no but the problem with lorn is AI haters singing voice because he's one of those singers where like he just sings nasally where it's way it's way too and you're like oh god but it's also the fact of he is the only queer coded character in the show and he has treated like shit throughout the entire thing like every single episode he appears in people like hey give me this thing right cool now fuck off you know it's literally four seasons they act as though they don't want him there or that every time he says something they're just like oh fuck or if he gets hurt they're like oh well you know and it's really weird how unkind all the characters act towards him you know and then him being like a queer coded why does that make you dislike him though and not the writers no it's it's the writers I dislike I dislike it I dislike his singing voice and the fact that he's just so much because it's his whole thing but it's the fact of I love the character and I love lorn and I love the whole like hey he's a demon but he's more human than most of the people in it like he's got a heart of golden stuff but then every episode he's just treated like shit so with the writers I just like not but then he just feels like you don't know what to do with him yeah like he just weird like what a sad character like it's literally this idea of he's treated like shit everywhere his bar gets totally destroyed angels like oh well yeah every time do they help him do they help him really don't even care they literally just go oh you've all got this story and all of your like means of living and everything you've worked towards for years have been destroyed oh well move on and it's literally like what the why are they like that and then and then we get to go back to his homeworld his home dimension in an episode and then we find out that his family hate him and he gets his head chopped off as well yeah he gets his head chopped off so it's like no no no he lives with it out the head yeah but it's like but then it's it's treated like a joke and I'm just like oh great so he's getting beaten up all the time and he's getting hurt all the time and everyone's beating him like shit all the time and that's the comedy and I don't know he's a lot of stuff I mean too but I feel like with all the stuff coming out about Josh Whedon being a bit of a dickhead when it comes to like women and him being a bit sort of you know a well representation but I don't really mean it well well what's the wrong way you just made it here's the point that's just brought me to my mind which is a little bit off topic but stick with this here right I didn't know that the guy who plays gun is gay in real life and saw a picture recently of him and his husband getting married and there were beautiful pictures and they had the character who plays Fred the character who plays Wesley and it obviously will always with Wesley because they're married and lovely pictures but in my head I was thinking the weird gun is portrayed in the show if it made gun gay that would have been an accurate representation of he's gay and he's also a butch and he's also he kicks out like why couldn't he have been yeah why did it have to be long that was the gay one it's that if you follow what I'm saying yeah and that's the thing it's like we have with Star Trek with Deep Space Nine where they had the character of Garak where the actor was like I want to play this gay and was totally fine with it and it was a perfect thing and then the producers were just like no no we can't do that you know we're gonna give you a girlfriend we're gonna take you know things away from that direction and he's sitting there being like he probably was kind of like oh cool could I be a gay character because I'd be fine with that and they were like no no it's a nice sort of disheartening and I know this is totally going a bit off kilter but the Cynthia Nixon in Second City in that she's managed to now get her kind of her part of her life into the new series and it's just like it's a little bit too late for I think because the characters saw already developed that putting it in now kind of just feels like we gotta do it I heard like like why couldn't they have done that initially it actually would have went really well with Miranda's character back in the initial start of Second City but yeah it's a bit similar to it came a long way but we're still got a long way to go typing but we're going back to like the lawn character as well because I understand Graham can't you point everything but do you not think in the end in the door that lawn was the one that got the best ending because he was the one that steered through to his beliefs and because they have a trade him and because with him being non-violent they made him kill Lindsey spoiler and basically he said I was done when he done it because like say he thought like he had to but he went I'm not part of this he said I'm not gonna meet his in the alley anymore once I've done I'm out so they kind of kept him to his moral compass and away yeah but that still shows how little regard the rest of the cast or the rest of the characters had for him because they were willing to let him destroy his own morality for their benefit they asked it so it's the fact of him going hey I'm a pacifist I don't agree with any of this and they're just like no no you need to go and kill someone for us and then we're just gonna forget about you like that is can you imagine that can you imagine just being like oh yeah vegan you need to eat some meat or something because reasons oh and then we don't really care you know like just this idea of going against someone's like morality gave the most horrible thing in the world like the fact that they just let him walk away surely if they gave a shit about him they'd be like no we need you you are part of you know part of this I'm you know thank you for all your help and stuff but no they're just like oh you want to leave okay cool but actually do this horrible thing that goes against your character first it is yeah like I'd say it's one of the biggest failings of angel and the other characters that they are so shit to lawn and I wonder why because they're so compassionate to everyone else and just more than we're trying to look for Wesley's and three but Wesley's and the reason Wesley is a dick all we're through to be honest I love Wesley I think the character is book and brilliant it was a great character arc and it's it's a bit weird because can you can you imagine Wesley from Buffy as he's portrayed in Norway and then be like oh he's gonna become this hardened sort of vampire hunter guy who like does loads of morally questionable stuff and you're like who Wesley yeah oh he becomes really bad that's like cocks he actually said in season the end of season three early four he was like wow we're literally getting dark Wesley right now right I was like oh yeah like the whole pin and gun that's that often I find out that couldn't sign the paperwork to get the cocks in and then Wesley didn't even think stabs gun I can't forgive you for not one and us and not telling us like what the situation was um like that was like like season one angel Wesley wouldn't have done that he wouldn't have even had the balls to make up the knife to be honest but that's like the journey going on but going through the characters as well um which I always talked about like a few but which of the characters that stand out like to you the most like had the most impact that's a really hard question because like I said they've all got such like the cedar in them as well as like goodness like it's really hard to love anyone correct her um you know what I've forgotten his name but there's somebody in season one who I absolutely love and I can't remember his name but he wears a cape he's rich and he just wants to be friends with them he's like a D&D master and he turns up in so many episodes and he's like guys I'm here and they're like oh no we just wanted your your knowledge or your money or whatever but he's just so loved I found myself and then just forget about him and I'm just like what happened in season like he was he was the best you can I just point out we've been doing this not half an hour and already you've made these people sound absolutely fucking awful like I don't want to know any other it's a dark show it sounds so bad it's kind of similar to um I'm totally off topic but for me it's very similar to battle saga like you're in terms of these are real people these are the kind of people you will meet in your life but you are not the best you know but like you know that you are gonna meet people that you think you're best friend and they're gonna see and do things that you can never forgive them for and some people might find that forgiveness but you've got to forget what they did and Buffy just lacks that kind of it's sort of gets there in the final season and you know they keep up the house and all that that more like but Angel just had that down in terms of even the person you thought you loved that you do something and you're like what the fuck are they doing and why are they doing this but that's what real people do they fuck up to make mistakes like and I love that for it but then like say I've come what season was like to actually buy it to the Angel out of the the guy and said look yeah you're not basically doing the way we think the Angel gets actually detected it's run by Corey gun and where's he becomes the leader yeah can I ask a question of course yeah okay so in Buffy he gets killed right who Angel many a times I remember that I remember that I've even got a hell dimension yeah goes to hell yeah so he's are killed he's going to hell so when did he come back so he's in the hell dimension for 120 years but for earth it's been like two weeks which is why he comes back but he's like all in Buffy's like manic and she has to almost tame him and there is reference to that in Angel and they do talk about how that was yeah it's all I also love the idea that in Buffy they're like oh it just takes some of his blood to close the portal Jesus I know have all of it okay just go to heaven like this different elements like I love how Angel in this in this show to get around I got all my happiness like cuz basically Buffy was all about like say underage sex let's be honest but this one's basically the word not but with this it's basically anything can be like both my place like the fact that the actress woman drugs them and yeah that's such a good episode and he becomes angelis until basically the drug wears off and that's like again it's just shorter can a synthetic high or synthetic happiness I bring back for the other things like the episode I just watched that finished like quarter seven and I was like I need to go with the episode in season four where they get the shaman to put the fake kind of scenario in his head so that he gets that he gets that perfect happiness through everything being right everyone forgives each other his son loves him um Cordelia loves him they have sex and then you think everything's going right for once and at the end of the episode he opens his eyes and he's still in the cage with the shaman and I looked I looked at cotty because I was coming to see that coming to you and uh I was like no I didn't see that coming and I was like I remember the first time I watched that episode thinking this is too nice for angel yeah it's going too well everyone's too happy it doesn't fit right I was the opposite though I got pissed off because I was just like oh that was so great oh yeah you know you know you're just coming from me in the cage you know you just got on you know like I was really like oh great we've moved the plot on no never mind gonna have never five episodes about the beast you know but they did have uh I could say a call back to the hell dimension as well as when his son is born and again let's be honest we get a lot of shit and weirdness when uh yeah basically uh Connor gets kidnapped and taken to the hell dimension as a beer bee and then within an hour later he's brought back as a I wouldn't see a fully shit man shit what's the dawn yes oh god that's the end of it yeah you're talking about like characters you know that were like really important to this or who do you think of because Paul didn't phrase it as who your favorite characters I'm gonna say that when I think of angel I think of Connor and it makes me go let's not watch that again yeah his Connor is so bad like it was a mistake I think I think I got a lot of respect for Vincent is it can't cast eyes I can't see a certain the guy from in time but um he's a brilliant actor but the plot of Connor and even Holt's makes me angry in a way that my brain can't can't verbalize like Holt's is great Holt's makes sense because you know I were talking about Kate earlier and like why is Kate so unreasonable like she's literally like oh I've seen angel do all these kind of things oh but I hate vampires so I'm not gonna trust them at all and you're like hang on you would like go oh hang on there's a difference with this where I've seen him save loads of people and done all this and she just doesn't she literally just hates forever whereas at least her faults you just go oh you have quite a valid reason to be angel no matter what he does and the fact is that when he sees that angel has changed he still goes no still wonder of eng you know and that kind of works for his character but Kate it doesn't but like fuck Holt's for making Connor could we stay as a baby? Connor just stay baby for me more episodes the episodes where like everyone's playing happy families and then he has to go and become a stupid fucking teenager but um no I honestly watch I've never noticed before but the first episode that Kate realizes angel is a vampire is the episode where angel's protégé the person who he used to hunt with comes back who was played by Jeremy Renner and I had no idea I got watch I was like holy shit that's Jeremy Renner like a furry you're Jeremy Renner yeah I was like no fucking way but mention and Connor again like let's talk about the most uncomfortable episode that was like when he called you yes he's like clearly like he's clean not all of them he's clearly not over the age of 16 I'm getting the word it's like a run and theme through this like it's his teenage or there's a teenager and I must have sex with them all they must have sex with the big bad my god I just have so much annoyance for what they did to court delia like they did a so dirty with that plot that season and I can't ever forgive them for that and I love that she's now trying to make it right with this new spinoff and i love the gyms masters it's gonna be part of that as well but um yeah it's just it's just so like like Graham said earlier she was so integral and when she was given the visions and they realized they kind of had lightning in the bottle with court delia she was the perfect addition to the team um it's a bit of time she wasn't buffy what did you think about sorry like we're saying with the writers strikes and stuff it's literally the people in charge not realizing what they have and not realizing how important that is I would have made court delia that happened i'd be like here here's lots more money just please stay in the show and instead they were like oh you were oh well you know you're pregnant oh you're pregnant oh is that what happened yeah she she got the actress got pregnant and then basically they said josh we had her basically in bed for an entire season because they're like oh well you got pregnancy bumps so we have to hide it and stuff or oh well we've made you pregnant in the show might as well make you evil yeah it's such a bit like i have to say though i love the what was the name the jasmine plot yes i love the overarching thing but in the actual execution of a lot of it you're like oh god this is this like dragon ball z the beast thing lasts far too many episodes that's why i was so happy when it just ended in that one and then it was like joke from you it was a dream there's three more but there's a reason for like the jasmine character and like the big bad and season not the big bad the big big lad lawyer in season five and then uh Caleb in uh in buffy basically went or five five five five got cancelled josh we haven't said i'm gonna make sure that the cast or like anyone who needed to be jobs but i don't want to end but Zoe who plays jasmine just knock all the way just Zoe from five like and they were given these massive roles in like Buffy and Angel as well like to kind of like play kitty and sorry that they got cancelled but we'll make a big deal and like you can tell the effort and stuff that that was put in i was saying a cat hide me on a team yeah so he's just he's just trying to jump from his tree onto me bookshelf what's got a fucking giant mirror to then run down the back of the telling which way i had to go pull him out from before this is why i've got to lose a pen i'm gonna have to worry about that but yes so it's like to get them apart but talk about cody what did you think of her send off episodes in season five and how that get out i like i like that they tried to rectify it and they gave the character an actual send off rather than that and she never wakes up yeah but um it wasn't enough it wasn't just this for the character itself like it's just it's frustrating it's frustrating more than anything and i feel like i think back to like things like faith like you know faith was in a coma and like they could have just realized it could have gone off and done other things and they could have just forgotten about her and it could have been a very similar situation but actually no they gave her that follow-up plot they gave her that that kind of growth that addition and we didn't have a cody i'm just i'm just spoiling it for people because obviously i'm just spoiler central for the show but definitely watch it but yeah season five and i think it's more insult to injury like it's the fact that with lorn uh like you know like i'm complaining about lorn or whatever we're called elia they go hey we've pissed off this actress we've realized how integral she is to the show and we need to get her back for season five to give her a proper send off they had every fucking opportunity to just be like oh she just leaves and she lives happily ever after or she ascends or she does something no she dies they just kill her off and they're like and it's a wonderful dramatic moment and it hits exactly how it should but they killed her like wow can you you know it's just like okay fuck the future then i mean i like that they're obviously i don't know if you've seen the announcement in the last couple of days where there's a new Buffy audio show coming out where they basically brought cody lea back where they've gone like oh spike teams up with cody lea from another dimension to do like do this and they bring it all the cast back and whatnot well this i don't think they have sarah michelle geller no no the cast back and you're like cool you have found a way to bring cody lea back because if you ever did an ukulele tv show she needs to be there so you just work out how you write her in well they kill cody lea's character off yeah yeah same thing again this is all purely because of the the pregnancy and then the treatment that she got as an actress made her not want to be there anymore she's pretty much bullied and pushed out of the show and she's been quite vocal about that since and a lot of the cast have actually backed up what she said so it's not a case of she's just complaining she was just a bit sad she was yeah she was just thinking about it she talked about where we were at their new castle comic on when they've done the panel uh her uh james masters and the and the woman that played drew seller uh but they're doing it like they're doing it like sit down when they're asking questions and talk about like the crowd and someone asked but no one asked they went look we don't want to talk about what you're bringing through we just want to say thank you and just in how proud we were for you to stand up and spend up and yeah i'm not uh she end up like she's standing up i think these things more people have to stand up and it's it's busy put shines a spotlight on it and say these things aren't acceptable and everyone even seven shall get left this came out and supported her as well and i thought that was a powerful thing saying i'm proud of Buffy i'm not proud of the person i worked for and the greatest thing that i had that it's just so shocking of what you don't see okay what you don't know behind the scenes but in the air obviously a shout out here but in the shuttle pod podcast they had arm and shimminen who plays quark in ds9 but also plays people tried to in um in Buffy and he basically said that the most poisonous toxic set he's ever been on is Buffy the vampires no really and it continued to angel where he just basically said that when he got on set all the actors were bitching about each other they're like oh you can't believe what this person did and stuff and you know literally going oh well i won't talk to them at all and then obviously when they're on set they're like acting but then they're just immediately afterwards they're just like oh fucking so Michelle Geller's such a bitch and stuff and you know in the fact that you had the production crews like sort of uh Josh Whedon and stuff literally not supporting the people are going yeah you're not like an able fuck off then you know like that kind of and it's scary to think that such an amazing set of shows came from this where everyone just hated their lives behind the scenes like it shocked me so much because for me growing up it made me feel proud to be like independent and to be like an independent thinker and it's just they got for what is right to then find out that the person who created that sense in me did what is inherently wrong to still win the and it's just it's a bit bizarre isn't it lovely though that the kind of wrongs have been written right now like i know they did a Buffy reunion for Vanity Fair and it was obviously they did the magazine cover and the interviews but they recorded them and they put them on to video as well he was not involved in any of that it was just the cast and it was uh-huh and it's kind of like oh it's nice to see that they can because you kind of think like they were teenagers who do you like agree with yourself back when you were like 15, 16, 17 year old because that certainly couldn't i've read a lot about Sarah Michelle Geller and how obviously don't i don't want to make the podcast about just being a dick but um but um no so talented yeah he would get in certain actor's face and be like i could kill you off in an instant but obviously he couldn't do that for Buffy like the only person he couldn't kill off is Buffy because she was the main character of the face and she used that to support the cast like she like i've heard from so many different actors on that set that she would say they're not doing this otherwise i'm not doing this and she's the only one who could and so many people have so much respect for her because she didn't have to do that like if someone had been on set for like 15 hours she would be like they need to go to sleep i am not acting another second until tomorrow and if she hadn't said that i would have just kept going and just kept going and yeah she was kind of like a champion of the people in her like well yeah i love her for that i love her for that it is not a bad story that comes out of us there Michelle Geller even on the set of screen too said she was an absolute like a joy to have there and i'd show her her feet was nothing it was she was it was next to me there she was the best she was the best she was the best staffing as well let's not forget that yeah i love it how i literally i'd never ever seen this live-action Scooby-Doo movie that i mean it when the the pile of shit and i'd never watch them and then i was like at this guy's house and he basically went and put them on and i was like these are so good like they're so they know exactly how silly they are and that's a wonderful thing maybe that's an episode of review as well the Scooby-Doo i love puffy obviously i love the show puffy and i love the character puffy i don't like puffy when she visits angel in any of the angel episodes that she's actually judging angel quite a few few crossovers there's one particular episode which follows probably my favorite episode which is where angel and faith have the showdown and you find out that faith's actually really struggling and angel gets to the humanity like the core of her and he's helping her and then Buffy turns up and like puts on like these big pants and she's like no you need to make her do what's right and angels like what do you think i'm doing here and they have like a big argument and i'm like go back to silly-dale bitch it's very not Buffy like it's just a weird thing of going Buffy would never act it feels very much like Buffy in angel i totally forgot she appears as much as she does but it's like Buffy and angel isn't the same character it's like but the writers are the same well all these just we should be going oh yeah what you've written my life doesn't sound like be yeah i think i was trying to get the narrative again trying to get the character's development again i'm starting to keep going over the point but i think fieth gets more character development in the short time she does in angel then she has an entire span that she's in with Buffy that's almost like the brilliance and how well worked there was done that they saw what they could do and that they had this broken character and how they played out they didn't try and fix her that i said look this is getting hurt like busy admit to her demons and busy atone for basically what she'd done and like the fact that she made the place to go to jail as well was quite a big situation big thing for her as well so i'd give them plotters to that and like even like stupid characters like harmony like harmony gets such a good character development in this as well she goes from the ditzy like chevie to spice girlfriend she definitely doesn't go from ditzy to anything else but i think the great thing about like harmony kind of saves season bible a little bit and yet they don't use her enough like she's like a comedy element but then she just doesn't get anything to do like a segment of like i mean one of my favorite episodes of season five is the one about harmony where she thinks she's murdered someone like no that one and it's so funny it's literally her being utterly incompetent trying to sort of cover up a murder and stuff and it's like yeah everything about it i absolutely like love and get we get nothing else it's very a misused character i think this harmony of vampire yes yes she's in buffy that she was called delia chasis friend in high school and then she becomes a vampire that did spike for a while and even spike comfort up with her she's so annoying but i love the fact that she's like she's she's a vampire and she doesn't have a soul like no she she doesn't have a soul and there's nothing to stop her being evil as fuck but she's just too stupid to be evil yeah yeah she doesn't murder people she doesn't murder people she doesn't have big plans of destroying the world or anything because she only cares about like you know like barbie she's she still has that ditzy little girl in now she never really got rid of it it is the kid from family but uh it's family values yeah it is yeah yeah it is yeah it is yeah i just notice i just don't as in the chat i just totally didn't call you a sex with avian earlier in that episode don't i i was that didn't happen is that what you were going for literally just saying she was a deviant okay okay she's all the kinds of deviants but yes i can say that honestly and but yes i like harmony i think i don't think they use her properly in this no could have made so much comedy if they gave her proper synergy with the rest of the characters one great the episode where she comes back and they uh get out to go undercover for that like vampire pyramid scheme and then she like she immediately portrays them and they're all like yeah kind of expected and then she's like all right she's lit and they could have had like returned a few times after that but they didn't she's not seen again until like season five and it's yeah it's just a point and they really like they dropped the ball on that one they could have made her like spike you know like her spike is in season three to like five of ruffy where they're just going like oh i will betray you at the earliest opportunity but as long as you're aware of that you know like they probably kept harmony like that but once because one thing that like when you think about the angel it's more it is a like a character driven shore when you think about ruffy as well you think about the big season baddies and stuff like that with the angel you don't really have that element they're on to like say the big big big bads it's kind of like twist it's not like what's the twist gonna be at the end of this season i mean jasmine technically could be classed as a big bad but they're only in about four episodes yeah not in the majority of it like actually like as he's first time watching it and he was just like i don't like this beast character and i was like oh do you think he's too evil he's like no it's a shit character he's like i don't like how it looks i don't understand the point like i want him gone and i was like don't i just get a tymporee from legend like why why are you messing why are you dancing around the fucking thing just that's what you want just get tymporee and what do you think of like the lindsey character throughout because he was in from yes first ever since i i love to hate lindsey like i feel like the show in the earliest season's probably couldn't have worked without him but at the minute i'm just really looking forward to when he comes back and he's wearing the cowboy because it's just like what the fuck lindsey like what are you doing it's one of these things where lindsey like he just doesn't work as a character like you know this thing where he's just i don't want to be rude i don't want to be mean but it's like he's very much kind of like serious kind of like oh i'm so evil and so you know sort of dark thing and it's literally like someone trying to play batman but where they sort of look like they're in a boy band and it just none of it works and i don't like the act the actor where his mouth is really small and that is what he's saying but his mouth is really small and it's all like so we've heard of people say a green like the big mouth guys i mean like right there you do along with the big mouthful yes but i think early lindsey they tried to make him quite sympathetic by doing all your shit background like he was shooting war on off he tried to like he didn't want to kill kids so which which was just infinity draw the kid he draws the line of kids we're happy to murder everybody else in the world when the apocalypse comes like they've ever children in the world lindsey is it okay kids are only worth half the points possibly but i did like the blind i did like the blind assassin i thought that was quite cool but then it went all prelte coronos and then i just feel like in terms of like in terms of sorry lindsey like i feel like lilah was just better they did it better that's how the character should have been phillancy i would say my favorite character in all of it that isn't like cordelia or one of the main ones is lilah she is such a good character and she is used really well kind of thing because she's she's evil but she's someone who's gone so far down the path of evil that she can't turn back like obviously she's contractually obliged it's also the idea she is kind of like going yes i could do kind of things and yes i could turn my back on things and help you but well in for a day you know in for a penny in for a man and if the idea of that's exactly what we need in the show where she is the the joker kind of character where you're just going just kill her you know like where she's like literally does all these horrible things like all the horrible things gets people killed and stuff and then she's just there in her like suit or whatever being like oh that plan fail oh well but she does it with her smile and face as well that's like just trying to stop it she's in a trouser suit yeah and then just walks off and they're just like oh well we can't just shoot her like we got because we're not just human and it is just this idea you love to hater but she's done so well and her development throughout the whole show is fantastic and it's a shame that once again spoilers she dies and it pisses me off yeah she comes back everyone but she comes back because she's contractually obliged to work for wolfman heart so even being dead they just go well we still i need to be used to bring you back and this is one of my issues with the show because again like everyone like plays a path greatly but some of those things that do takes off the impact that happens later on like Wesley's character he is such a slut uh throw this uh he literally falls in love with anyone that's sure is in a little bit of attention so he falls in love with lyla and why i like him having sex with lyla though because i feel like initially it's like it's kind of i don't know i said the cuckoo scene like i genuinely felt like i've never viewed him as attractive until his dark ark with lyla and i'm like oh i kind of get it like when like like they finish up in sex and he's like get out just like oh Wesley but then the whole thing that happens with Fred when he's falls in love with Fred it's like we're there he's moved on from lyla pretty quickly to move on to Fred's adorable like she is like i said the shining light throughout this sure she is absolutely lovely and that was one of the episodes i did actually hit it it's hard that like the pro turn and like see now with ecelyn that character was never going to come back to see him but i'm still not over it no but the fact that Wesley just went from woman to woman i was like i'm not really feeling that like sad but wesley now because like the next woman that will come along and show him a bit attention he'll probably fall in love with her next well i think i think the whole thing is that the only person the whole thing about like wesley is the only person that he loves his Fred he loves Fred from the moment she comes to the window yeah and she can't have him like no he can't have her where's the fact of like she falls in love with gun and he's just sitting there biting his tongue being like oh well i'm glad she's happy and then he's like that's all angel's kids that's what you do but the whole thing is his whole thing is literally just like oh trying to fight that pain and he turns to like sex with whoever basically so he becomes a slut to fill that void or going oh well i can't have the person i love and so it makes sense and then obviously he gets Fred eventually spoilers um actually it's more than fucking not gonna stop more than anymore yeah and we have tragedy later which is yeah so i i get Wesley because i know a lot of people that fill the emotional void with sex like you know and you know so we're saying like oh well it's loads of random women i'm like try living in the gay world you know at least at least Wesley kept it to one at a time i think you know though like watching it back now like the first time i watched it round i was so so mad at Wesley for that arc with the prophecy and stealing steel and corner and whatnot and watching it back as a like a fully matured adult um not emotionally mature just you know my body's matured um watching it back i was kind of like the only thing i feel he did wrong was not telling anybody he didn't communicate his concerns other than that actually what he did was selfless he tried to save angel from the most horrific fit for anyone with children which is that they're gonna harm their own children and then he gets nearly killed for it and then the people that he's trying to protect turn on him turn their back on him like of course he and it's that episode where him and gun have a huge argument and and guns like i don't like what happened to you man and he's like well i got my throat slitting them my friends down their back on his and i was like yeah like that's literally a new nutshell isn't it like of course Wesley's fucked up of course he's looking for connection with anybody and if that means sex then it means sex you know because he doesn't want to get emotionally close to anyone because every time he has done it's it's been him that's gotten hurt so what is your favorite episode in this i know that's going to be a hard one for most of us to answer now because it's unlike Buffy it doesn't have like a sudden loan episode it kind of blends into one and moves along type thing um it's for me like i know it's like i didn't like the first season that well but it still has like the great episodes in the first season which kind of set the tone um like the angel trying to be normal and trying to like integrate himself into society when he goes to like the party and stuff like that and that's why he first gets introduced to go daily and stuff i think that's a great starting point and one of your favorite episodes as well and i think i'm sure that's the one way dancers in as well where the girl has to dance and he's seen this thing i've got a clip of it as well so i'll show it to Sam as well so this is this basically this has got us on silent because we don't really need to hear this one basically one walks up the angel in the party so let's dance i mean just take him for a second is he gonna let loose and show his moves yeah he's like i don't dance and here's the moves coming Sam's looking and gross now um this is why he doesn't dance oh wow it's wonderful that the show basically pokes fun at angel for just going how socially awkward he is like the idea of just being like he can't dance he definitely can't sing and it's it's kind of like a wolf in sartrek where it just goes the joke is that this is a person who would never put themselves in this situation and here they are and it works really well with angel yeah i feel like angel has so much more depth in himself as a character in that in his show that he ever did in Buffy and as much as he loved it Buffy and you know all that shit happens he becomes angelis he kills so many people he atones where he comes back and he leaves and sees him but in angel to show you actually get to see you get to see the actual human part of him you get to see the person that hurt that gets jealous that wants to be known as a good singer and a good dance he is visibly offended every time the gang tell him that his singing voice is crap and i love that he has that humanity about him that like he's someone who cares what people think and you never get that in Buffy he's very flawless in Buffy yeah he's incredibly solid in Buffy he's just been a fellow in Buffy he's just basically like uh what do you call it like uh tottie he's just that's all he is and Buffy like it's literally the idea of going oh you're looking sort of dark and mysterious and kind of hot oh you've got your shirt off or whatever he's waiting in your bedroom yeah and that's it and actually this idea is like okay this is cute this work but um but yeah and then angel like because he does so much that and i like that they do do stuff with it where they just go what was angel doing during this period because remember has the whole arc where it's basically that episode where it's uh where it has him living at the hotel like in the it was it the 20s or something yes i love that episode are you now or have you ever been it's called yeah and the end of that episode made me solve this watch around because i'd forgotten all about the ending um but it was beautiful it's it's beautifully done that could be a film that could be a feature film that plot yeah it's incredible one it's interesting because it doesn't have the rest of the casting it's just ideal you took it out because it literally just goes hey we're just gonna move this to a totally different setting and do an episode without any of the other characters and it works and you're like this is strong the only thing again as son you said we're bawping watching back actually he's a little bit further on than me uh one thing i didn't notice first time watching i probably wasn't paying attention and they made like actually made a little comment to it um when angel saves care she doesn't invite him in and she actually says i never invited her in i did not notice that as well so he ended her building like i don't get like why that was like a comment or why because she was technically dead right she basically you can't end a rehumance home without invitation until they're dead and the reason she mentions that is because when she committed suicide she was actually successful briefly he brought her back to life right and that was the only reason he was allowed because he's like why are you talking to me and she's like because i never invited you in it basically means because i would have been dead had you not come and saved me right that's the thing it's kind of it has a lot of dark stuff like i remember in one of the episodes they have it where you know they're they're they're raiding this guy's room where he's in the hospital after an accident as like the victim of like a sort of attack and angel can't get into his room and he's leaning on the on the invisible portal at the door and then basically he just falls forward into the room and they're like oh well we know how that ended you know something that he died in hospital because angel can now enter the room and you're like going that's pretty bleak really the whole thing i think dude is a joke they go oh well looks like he's gone and you're like you know this is a bit i think my favorite episode is probably and i said this during the Buffy podcast as well so you probably might expect this from me but my favorite episode is five by five because faith is probably my favorite character i do have a massive girl crush on her and it's the episode where we get that kind of payoff of like she's so evil and she's so hell bent on revenge and that episode directly follows the episode where she switches bodies with Buffy which has massive connotations about like bodily autonomy and consent and just the lens she's willing to go to and then she goes to LA and over and heart pick her up and say they're like killing angel and you get that payoff at the very end where her and angel are fighting and she just breaks down and she's begging them to kill her and you're just like holy shit like this is a broken woman who's admitting defeat and whether she remains evil or not is you know only time can tell but it's just so powerful such a powerful episode that's when Wesley runs out into the street with a knife ready like killer and just sees her like sobbing on the floor with angel like embracing her like it's just for me it's probably like one of the top five episodes of tv not just angel but then they followed up with a perfect episode as well because Cordelia bassy leaves after 30 seconds and Wesley walks in and walks out because he doesn't want to be around someone that's tortured it's like they don't play it often think or everything's happy families and everyone's back normal at bassy repercussions like actions have our purpose and means and i thought that was done really really well and done in the right way as well which it don't always get with age type of person. Yeah it passes her like a sandwich or something to eat and she then attacks him and like starts trying to kill her and then it like flashes back and she's just sitting on the bed with the sandwich in front of her and you realize she's got this going on inside of her head like this desire to attack and it's almost it's kind of reminds me of like a dog you know and they say like you put a dog in like violent situations enough it will fight back and eventually it will become the aggressor itself and i genuinely think that that one mistake she makes in season one where she she kills a human it's she wasn't she was it was but she wasn't able to ever come back from that and angel got so close in that one episode but then Wesley and all the watchers council come and steal her and knock angel out. I think though faith does come you know she does come around she does become a hero and i think it's this idea like you know what we're saying earlier about like just because someone's a dickhead doesn't mean they can't do great art and this is the thing though it's like you get a lot of people at the moment complaining about like jk rallying and you're like but i know she's a dickhead now and i know she's like an antagonist now and she has these strong views about like trans you know transgender people and whatnot but it's the idea of you look at the books and you're like but you know how humans and morality work and you know how you know how to be good and you know and it's like we think oh she doesn't understand what you know kindness and stuff or she doesn't know the world because she's got this view about this and you just go it doesn't work like that you know it's not good and evil it's not black and white and it's the idea of going no they could be a perfectly perfect like wonderful human being except for this one thing and it's the idea that josh we even gets people so much that we can get a character like faith so well-rounded who gets that arc of going from being abused having a shit life you know like literally where she turns to the a dangerous person because it's the only affection that she has which is like the mayor and then the fact that she comes full circle she she goes to jail willingly she could break out at any time but she doesn't because she needs to serve her time and whatnot and then at the end she becomes a hero she is essential to saving the world in like Buffy season seven and I think that's wonderful and I think it's wonderfully well written so it's really difficult going wow josh weans a bit of a dish you know yeah but yeah I also feel like faith faith arc could never have happened without angel and it's kind of I didn't watch angel until I was older because I never had sky so it was all Buffy for me so it was really confusing for me that Buffy faith left after swapping bodies and you know slept with Riley in Buffy's body and like did some really fucking up stuff I mean Stephen Riley is a mistake anyway yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah questionable mental state but um she comes back in season seven and she's like ready to fight the good fight and you kind of like hang on last time you were here wasn't and Buffy hates her and you're like you understand why but then you watch angel and you have all this backstory this all this development you're actually like you know what actually fuck up Buffy no it's been good like she's here to help and I love watching back Buffy after having watched Angel and those subtle moments where it's kind of like I don't want to be in charge this is all you like what you're trying to say so what you're trying to say as well what we're experiencing now with the Marvel Universe is that is down to Buffy and Angel's their fault as well saying you have to watch both to understand it now we can't just single fucking thing of marvel to no it's not as bad as marvel i've got it where you need to know the full universe to understand anyway but it's this idea of it it helps it's a nicer to least a regular like for instance in Buffy the amount of times when like there's like a phone call and then Willow picks it up and they're just like oh oh okay i've got to go you know and then you're like oh what's that about and they're like oh i'll be back in a couple of days and we're like okay and I never thought twice about it and then in angel you had to make a short where Fred is just like okay i need to call someone and get some help and you're like that's the fucking phone call and then the next episode Willow turns up and she's like what can i help with you know and he's just like a thing oh right so Fred called Willow and that's why she moved off of that and you know and you don't need it but it definitely helps with like faith where you just go oh wow you're reformed very quickly i mean just mention that she's in jail it mentions her is in jail yeah but it doesn't tell you why because it sort of implies that she was arrested not that she willingly chose to hand herself in which the two are very different don't know if it's on people the concept of you know if you're a killer but for her i don't think that was ever the case no i think the whole thing with angel is the idea of redemption being like hey he was a killer he's one of the worst vampires to ever exist and yet we got to accept like like what what's his name though oh forgotten his name he and holds like doesn't get it where he's like oh well actually you're once a killer or was a killer and like but he does make reference to that as well he says he's sitting in the room with probably the biggest mass murderer that's ever lived um and like and that's quite chilling when you think about like such a throw away i see it and then you realize like say yeah fuck like what the world of spooky has done in the past now yeah coming on to be basically the most probably the marmite thing in the shore that ever did happen the end and like how it ended like some some fans love it some fans absolutely despise it no one's ever in the middle i'm in the ground that i'm in the middle say i actually really enjoyed it i thought no one's a good fuck you all theory boy okay i'm sorry i'm in the middle i'm sorry so if anyone who hasn't seen it this is gonna be a mass as well as i'm sure i'm not gonna head to that that's anyone here is busy how we leave off the busy take down uh talk take off what the ball the order of the storm anyway else not so far they killed some you feel they're not demons um where's he's in the car he was killed by he's in the car he's in the car and he's got a killer control and then i don't know bed was a good move but you were on the same side don't you know what's on fire that's not good so he's basically putting the bike so he's gonna be wrapped up on the inside jolly boy we're on west for a second here we go this is super frag but this is dead so this is how we how we're in this is just getting a job involved i was instead i'm feeling great okay i can't seem to control it i wish to do it all off well this has just happened to be horses today Among others he's out, some of us got in the sound down front as well.
So this is how it ends, big war coming on the bodies. Kind of would have liked him, even played the dragon. Yeah, that would have been cool. I think the thing is it's very much like Josh Whedon being like, okay we've been denied another series.
Because I think what happened is he put into early, because they were basically in the middle of loads of crazy shit and he basically said, hey I want it at six seasons. And they were like, oh well we can't think about that now we'll get back to you. And then he just kept pushing and he just kept going like, oh no no give us a, you know, give us a six season. And they eventually just went out to sleep, that's why I'm fucking, no you can't.
And I think it's very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't know whether it's implied. And it just ends there but it's very much that he was like, hey we're going to make a big setup that it's going to be epic so that the studio goes, oh what a mistake we made when the fans go, hey we desperately want to see what happens here.
And then they get another season. So it just didn't. So with something that's the first time you've seen the end. So I know you mentioned like the Sibonians, was that the dash shop you went anywhere or that surprised you?
I mean it's a good job you were talking about it because I wouldn't have a clue what was going on. But it is a very surprising moment. When did he come out? He didn't but there was some things implied about his sexuality.
It started in 99. The internet's not like where it is because I imagine the fans would have been really upset about that. Oh yeah, hugely. I mean it's the problem is in two parts because don't get me wrong.
I don't think Warner Brothers are like innocent. But I also think Joss was a bit too full of himself at the time because as Graham said, the way that the process worked was the show would begin and then they would have like a mid-point review and then we'd discuss whether there was going to be another season or not. And Joss was like, no, I'm doing so great. The show's doing so great.
I'm going to push for this. I'm going to push for this. And he pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and the head of Warner Brothers was like, well, if you're going to force me to give you an answer, then the answer is no. That's what I'm like.
If people really are like, I've got my back about doing gigs or doing stuff. I'm just like, nah then. No, they're coming with us. Yeah.
So you've got a kind of question. If they'd waited for that usual mid-point review with the answer being, yeah, let's go from the season. See, I never imagined when endings happened like that. Like I wasn't mad at the Sipranos.
A certain other series that have ended in a kind of anti-climactic way. And I'm kind of all right with it. But I have no context of where the story had been leading up to that point. Again, why fans are annoyed about it?
Because the idea is that the apocalypse is coming and you don't know whether the gang are going to win or not. And it's annoying to not know. But at the same time, like I say, I'm in the middle. I don't hate it.
I'm like, Sammy, I think that sometimes ambiguous endings can be more imaginative than anything the writers could have done. Isn't it always nice to have it in the back of your head? Like, they're all okay. Yeah.
I know that they're okay. It's okay that they're all right now. And you can just live with that. Yeah, sorry.
No, no, that's why the cliffhanger will get him another series, either. Yeah. Yeah. It is a bit it's a bit it's a bit what's the word I'm looking for?
I can't think of the word I'm looking for. It is very ambiguous of him to think that he has that kind of pull, given the fight. Well, I reckon that's what I was looking for. Like that is really arrogant of me.
Like, yeah, I can do this on the back of like I can just do this. And he ends up he's already had like one of his shows cancelled. And that was what is hailed as an absolute masterpiece. So I think we'll go for that just waiting.
It didn't have much success afterwards because the whole house flop takes time as well. I like the whole house, unfortunately. I did like it. I did like it.
Like everything he's done, genuinely have like everything he's done. But yeah, I think because of Buffy being so successfully thought that he had the same thing with Angelina that he was higher than his station. Yeah, he got a big picture for his boots didn't he? He kind of had the same effect in Marvel as well as the Avengers was fucking phenomenal.
He was one of the best Marvel movies and then it ultra and he kind of trying to push push it up. He pushed it too far. And he opened up conversations that didn't need to happen in a superhero environment. So he must have a thing and I think didn't need to do that in DC as well.
Just a sliggy. Fucked up. Oh God, just a slig. He needed to do uncomfortable things.
Gil Galat was going to actually spark him out at one point I think. Yeah, the guy you played, Cyborg had an incredibly hard time with him on set. So there's kind of a bit of a pattern here isn't there? Yeah, with this thing he is an amazing writer.
He has an amazing visionary for stuff but just a shit human being. Yeah, yeah. I kind of, I don't know how much fun. I don't think he's a lumps though.
Is he? No, I don't think he's on that list. I don't think he's on that list. No, I don't think he's on that list.
He's just an absolute asshole. Who's the director? Oh, it's the guy who did the X-Men for this. Yeah, he's the one thing.
Yeah, he's the one getting the fucking bin. But the amazing fucking X-Men won and do amazing things. He does like, well, he's getting the word, you know, and the only thing I spell. I know the kidding.
I didn't carry on the story in the comics afterwards though as well. Kitty. They did. I'm actually quite annoyed because like we haven't, because I just talk about A'Leria for a moment to tie it into the comics.
Is I think A'Leria, even though I dislike season 5, I think A'Leria is one of the greatest things we've had in a TV show. Because basically what happens to the people who haven't seen it. We have a character friend who's been over like three seasons, I think it is, who is an incredibly liked character. They are a very wonderful character.
And basically what happens is they open up an ancient sarcophagus and get possessed by the thing that lived inside the sarcophagus. And it takes them over and makes them into a new character called A'Leria, which is basically a god but forced into human form. But like they have ludicrous over the top powers. They're literally like Superman, like, you know, no.
And it basically kills Fred. So basically, A'Leria just goes, yeah, I've taken up this whole vessel, there was nothing left of Fred. She can never come back. As hard as well.
So, I mean, it was like, the soul was destroyed as well. Like that's where there was no, because Angel makes the comment. No one's really gone in this world. Everyone can come back.
We've come back. Puffies come back. And then it was like, no Fred can't come back. I've ate her soul.
Yeah. And it's literally just the most final thing that it just kills off one of the most beloved characters. But then the actress is still there as this new character. And it's so good because A'Leria is such a good character.
Because they are a god that has been asleep for far like millions of years. And they're just like, okay, cool. Where are all my worshippers? Oh, they don't exist anymore.
Oh, okay. Well, and then she gets back to a temple. So basically they have episodes where she just kicking Angel's ass, doing whatever the hell she wants because she's so powerful. She finds her temple and she's like, oh, I've been killed off by one of the rival gods.
And all of my followers and all of my temples and stuff are destroyed. What is the point of me existing and has this like existential crisis? It's like I'm like crisis. When she's getting used to just going, I guess I'm, and then basically what happens is because she's so powerful.
Like her friends body can't sustain it. So starts breaking down. And they basically have to depower her and take her powers off her for the most part in order for her to keep existing because they can't take her out of the body. And basically she just ends up being like, so I guess I just have to live like a mortal now.
And you know, and it's this wonderful arc that you get as of her learning how to be a person. Give us a bit of question then. It's a good one point as well. Yeah, they're literally like, oh, you have to stay here.
And she's just like, oh, okay. And she's just playing on a PlayStation. And I just love it. And it's a shame that we didn't get more of her.
But the problem is Josh Whedon has said that if they had done a season six, he would have brought Fred back. There would have been a thing where they split Alire and half and Fred comes back. And I kind of dislike that because I like how it's like Aerith dying in Final Fantasy VII spoilers and where you just like knowing if she came back, it would destroy the whole point of going look. So it really happens.
And that's exactly what we get with Alire. And I love her as a character. She only has like about 10 episodes. Well, she's in the later part of those season.
Yeah, well, this is in the time where each season of the Angel was 22 episodes of 45 minutes. So we've got a lot of Angel. Just to quickly add my fate. When we were talking about David episodes earlier, bizarrely for all my hatred of season five, I think one of my favorite episodes is the one where Fred's parents come to town, where Fred's parents come to town and they want to meet their daughter and Angel and nobody, because all shit heads who hate long, but basically none of them thought to actually tell Fred's parents that she was dead.
Like, you know, that she was gone and she didn't exist anymore. People sound awful. I don't know what you're telling me. You don't know what you're telling me.
Sorry. It's really like, oh shit, no one reached out to the parents to actually say, oh, by the way, there's been an accident. And parents are so lovely as well. They're like, they're so lovely.
They she has such a good relationship with her parents. And it's so different for the show, you know, because you have like Buffy, but she's from a broken family and a relationship with a mother is Raven and stuff. Fred has an amazing relationship with her parents and it's played upon. And then basically what happens is, Eliria literally goes, oh, I have all of Fred's memories, so I will just pretend to be Fred.
And does it perfectly to the point of convincing the parents that she's fine and she's doing great and stuff, but then quick, keep switching back when they're not watching to this cold, evil sort of god persona being like, I'm doing a good job of fooling these humans. And so it's a beautiful episode because Wesley, who was in love with Fred, just hates being her again, because Eliria is basically being Fred and he's like, stop doing it, stop being this, you know, dead person because it's an act. That is an amazing episode. And I will forgive a lot of the stuff of season five because we get an episode that good.
So I know what's something you haven't watched it. Would you like to say after what we've talked on, is this something that you fancy going through? I'm going like watching, is that a note? They sound like awful people.
But no, I think this I think it's really past is like, I would have had to have watched it when I came out or not long after. It's not like, well, Buffy, I watched that. I watched that when it came out part of it, like because Michaela was in love with this. And yeah, I think this is like kind of past past me now.
Goodbye, Angel, until I was 25, I think. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think you only watched it like me.
Still look kind for me though, because I'm older than you. Still though, the point is I watched Buffy as a youngster and I think if I was to watch it, I'd probably be like, this is a bit cheesy, a bit gimmicky, but Angel holds up really well. Some of the CGI is questionable. But it is in all the rings as well.
I forgive all the rings for everything. I'm not afraid to disagree with that one, but okay. Yeah, no, I see that all the rings still hold up. Although the hobbit doesn't and you're like, oh my god, well, you got the people who did Harry Potter wanted you.
You can tell when they're being hired, can't you? I don't know if I said this on the Buffy podcast or not, but if I did, I'm sorry for repeating myself. But I love the concept that the conspiracy, the theory that Wolfram and Hart is pretty much the agency from the film Cabin in the Woods, that these people are trying to start being a god from being born sounds like something Wolfram and Hart would do. Like, let's just kill some innocent people and we get them to choose how they die.
Like, that sounds like something Wolfram and Hart would totally fucking do. Oh, I've never heard that before. If you did say that, I've always missed it, but I like that. It's such a good thing.
And like, if you think about things like the, I've forgotten the name in Buffy, the what Riley works for. Are they? The initiative? The initiative, the Wolfram and Hart, that kind of all like, it could all be seen as this agency from Cabin in the Woods.
The two people who were behind it all. Just different departments in them as well. Oh, because it's ultimately every single show on the film all sent around the arc of like, gods that can wipe out the arc if they want, we need to do what we plan to please and beyond their side. So it's the only wig of it is the big buddy in all of it.
Yeah, all of it. It's only you are getting food in the chat. I'm fine. Because you're doing that.
It's a lot of the rings. It's my favourite film of all time. I watched it yearly. Why?
Back to back. Why? Because it's the best film ever made. What?
Some of the fighting scenes. The scene you can tell that the people are kind of drawn in rather than actually being there, which is sad because I know how many extras they got from New Zealand. I could talk about other things for the rest of my life. Me too.
It's no good. It's no good. It might have been before my time, but like, as there'd been a lot of the rings episode of Nirietn North. We have.
It was a very, very, very long time ago. It was with Emily from Health was South. The game is Guide. He was Guide.
That's it. She was an absolute sweetheart. She taught me so much. But I would definitely have a revisit to Lord of the Rings.
I don't know if Paul had ever originally hated it. But I would love something to be on. You're here for Rachel and you've not seen Angel, so it's Paul's turn. I'd say Lord of the Rings.
I'd rather pick up. Because I didn't even have to step down as cult leader. If you'd been a fucking nerdy girl then hadn't seen Lord of the Rings. Yeah, but he liked the end of the door.
No, I've seen it that it's been liked. Not dislike the movie. I just thought it had fought. I can get to the rate that needs to have two people.
No, I'll have the most people with rings. It's one of my favourite films. But it's more to do with the same thing. Enlands and the fact that it just went on and on and on and on.
Fucking hell's on you. We need to have ourselves. I'm happy to revisit the Lord of the Rings and talk about it. It was a long time ago.
I've got the sting sold under my bed. I'm not sure I'm going to say I'm a massive Lord of the Rings. You are ready for that. Because it's never going to be a green.
No, not yet. That's because we don't have any of that. I have the chance. I'm doubling.
I do have a really good ass legal impression as well. I can bring that one out for you. It's something you can do. Yeah, that's something we're penciling this in.
It's something that we are revisiting. And I think the chat is really, we'd really love that because we have a lot of the rings. Fabans in our chat. Well, I think that just quote the chat.
More Lord of the Rings, less goonies. Once we go, Chris is going to mine about it. Chris is going to get banned from the group. It's going to get banned from the group.
Angel of the Queen is more evidence than Nicole doesn't watch this. That's not the first. Sorry, I got to get all hyped up when it talks about nasty stuff about the goonies. But the plans so far, and all we've got plans for October, November, but December, I think that's when we're going to start with the months where it's going to have its own type of theme.
These are the format ever so slightly. So the months, I think in January, the idea was we were going to have either not a true crime conspiracy month. So each episode would be different to a crime. But we could probably start it in December.
Because that's been as we always try to do Christmas shit. But Christmas never works. It never does. It never does.
Because if you did a conspiracy month, it may be a good one to watch the track episodes where it's literally about internal conspiracies and stuff and stuff. That'd be cool. That'd be cool. That'd be cool.
That'd be cool. Which is still pretty rare as a kid because it guides head explodes. And it's actually very visual. And you're like, this is a PG, OK?
But for Christmas month, you could just do a podcast every week on Die Hard every week. Just do it every week. Just do it every month. Die Hard.
Die Hard. Die Hard. I wonder if he's going to get the machine gun this time. It would probably be a lot better than what we tried to do in the past because it just never caused a plot.
The idea I was going to plot was we could do a fantasy month. So we can talk all about different fun things. So that could lead into like we do in the Lord of the Rings episode. We could do it with the Vals episode.
We could talk about it. We could talk about it with the Vals episode. We could talk about it with the Vals episode. We could talk about it with the Vals episode.
Give all the channels. Yeah. Back me up. Back me up.
Give me thrones. Give me thrones. Anything like that. Yes.
Like say, so that could lead into like the fantasy. But I know next week the episode is going to be interested on its Tom Hanks movies. So yes. So we'll talk about different Tom Hanks movies next week.
I think it leads on. Amazing. So it's going to be about seven hours long. And we just want to know that if you haven't seen it, Dragnet is one of the funniest movies.
Yes. It's pretty absolutely fantastic. Well, yes. Just so we're finishing off now, is any point set you want to make about Angel?
Like I know we haven't sold Sami on it as well. I just want to point out. Tom, no go on. It was only because of just I think it's just time and I think it's just like kind of it's past his bar.
And I'm okay with that. I just have two things that I need to mention. And that I mean I might get sick from this. The actress who plays Darla I don't think is very good.
And I have a feeling that they didn't realize when they cast her in Buffy. That they were going to do so much with the character. And it does. And it kind of is like because Darla is only in about three episodes of Buffy season one and then she dies.
And then in Aimee and she's in Tegrel to Angel's background. And then in the show Angel they're like, oh, Darla is a really important character. And needs to be brought up all the time. And she's in every single memory or flashback that he has.
And the actress just isn't very good. I think for Darla, but she's in a lot of it. And I feel like that was a big hamper hampering for them. But at the counterpoint of that, I will say I absolutely love Juliet Landau as Lucilla.
And I think if you like Buffy, if you like Buffy, you should definitely watch the Dusilla episodes of Angel. Because she basically becomes the big bad for season two effectively. Like, and it's great when you get episodes with her and Darla basically just being villains. And I just love it.
I love seeing more Dusilla and it's a shame that she just vanishes. I mean, I'm glad she doesn't get killed off. But it's the fact that she just exists like you like, oh, well, she doesn't get anything. She just runs off.
She appears in Buffy again. And then she runs off at the end of the episode. But it's not even in Buffy isn't it because she turns up and she's kind of like old burnt and she goes to see his bike. And she's like, I bumped into our friend Angel.
Yeah. Is that Angel? It's like the birds. It's like, oh, yeah.
Like, he's like, oh, how is Captain hair gel? And she's just like, oh, he set me on fire. And she's just kidding. It's amazing that, but yeah, she is so good.
She's such a good character and it's great having her in Angel and I just wanted to. And the fact that in Angel, she is seen as a threat. Like, it's pointing out just going, she is way more powerful than anyone expects her to be. Where it's like, hang on, it's a vampire with psychic powers and it's absolutely mad as a hatter.
Like, yeah, she's wonderful. And I'm so glad that the new audio drama that they're bringing out, like the one I mentioned earlier where they're bringing Cordelia back and stuff like that, the villain of that is Dusilla voiced by Juliet Lando. So I'm really excited. Yeah, she was going to make the documentary, vampire documentary.
It was going on since, oh, God, I want to say it, 2010, 2011. And it was going to be huge. She had, she'd worked with Anne Rice. She, her father was very heavily involved in it and who got her in contact with so many other people.
It was, I remember looking at all like what a kickstart would have been back then. And it never happened. It never fruitioned. And I was so sad.
I always go and check at least once a year ago. Did she like kind of sneak in to get it out or is she ever going to? And she's not, she's not picked up by book. She has all this footage of this vampire history and she's not doing anything with it.
Can't you, can't you give it to someone? Like you should probably, next time you meet it, we'll probably say it to, yeah, maybe we should mention it. Just be like, look, next time someone sees where they come, just be like, look, give it to someone. Give it to a team of people and then edit it and pull it out if you don't do it, because we need to see these interviews.
See it, I need to see it because it was such a hype and it was how much access she had to Anne Rice as well. And I was like, because interview with that, my other book is one of my favorites. It's possibly one of the best books I ever read on, sounds really silly, but whatever read on me on. And it was so special to us for that reason.
And that's why I love Anne Rice for because she helped us read. And I just want to say this fucking documentary, man. Sorry. I mean, interview with a vampire in all of the series by Anne Rice are amazing because they are the most homoerotic fan service I've ever seen in my entire life.
Where she's just like, for no reason, this character is just getting a bathtub with a liking. And you're like, well, okay. The reason, just for that. Yeah, it's like, well, but it's this idea of just being like, oh well, when you have Anne party, you don't need to worry about life and mortality.
You just fuck everything. It's your fridge. Any go to go for it. Yes.
So yes, thank you guys for coming on and thank you for Sami for putting up with us as well. No, I'm putting up with me in the kittens and little bastards have been running all over the bit. Honestly, the majority of the time I have had this in my hands, which is my laser pointer, to keep them in front of us. So I didn't have to watch them going behind us, which is behind the telly.
We're all the buyers off. So I apologize. I will not be doing this again and here with these two. That's fine.
I can say I wanted to do this episode after the Buffy one because like I say, the Buffy one got such a great reaction. And it's amazing to see people still passionate about these shows as well as Sonia and Graham has proven they are mega fans still out there and still with us. Mega fans. Mega fans.
Mega fans. You're on mega fans. I don't know if I'm a mega fan. I don't know.
I'm probably just on a spectrum. This is the thing though. It's like, you know, you're all something as a backup all over. Oh, the guest is about there.
You want to talk about this subject. I'm like, I can talk about nine hours on this random. Let's just put this out there. You are never a backup.
Graham. You were never a gravel. You want you Graham. You are the busiest man in Hollywood.
In Edward, shall we say? The easiest man in the Northeast right now. So if we could have you one every week, we would. But we know that's not a possibility.
So I can't do more guys. I can't be on more. But you'll apologize. But yes.
So do you want to do your promo for tomorrow? Because you have to say it for this. And then Monday, Monday. So a Monster Monday is Leatherface.
You will get a good look at Leatherface. But you will also have an interesting time listening to many of Mind and Dance Tangents. Because we kind of can't keep on subject this week. It's a really good episode.
It was one of the funnest ones we recorded. And for a while, so yes, Monday, at seven o'clock. Leatherface. So that's on the monsters of North, Monster Monday.
Captain Goodwill is hopefully alive. We still have no confirmation. Don't have no confirmation. But fingers crossed.
Fingers crossed. He's still okay. I don't know if we've got to try and get a track and episode out this week. I'll talk to Graham and see.
Because again, with how busy he deserves a brick. So what am I? He does. And if Michael's having a holiday, you will have a holiday.
It's really difficult. Because this week is I do not have spare time. Like it is just. And the problem is because Goodwill's not here, I'd have to work out how to do all of the things that he does on his computer to do it.
So what we and it's also the idea of just going and also Friday night, I might need to still be working on stuff. So it's this idea of just being like, I'd love to do it. And I don't want to miss a week of it. But you have to be like, this has a deadline, this needs to be done.
Yeah. What we could do and Goodwill make sure I can probably get a crash. But this is just an idea. You can take a week off and I can probably arrange with a few people.
I know the group recently voted that we wanted to do a review of the faculty. Oh, I felt like it's fine. Graham, have a break. Michael has a holiday.
You can have a holiday. You do. The problem is I kind of like to be in on the episode. Oh my God.
I'm not going to get set a track. I'm not going to get out of it. But yeah, that's the whole thing. I mean, like, you know, just let me see how far I get with the work.
OK, but like with this case scenario, maybe we could do it with you in on the episode Paul to do all of the technical stuff that I don't have time to sort out. And then like maybe have a guess like general Kirkby back or Baron maybe do that. But I think next week, once I got time to actually sort stuff out in some breathing room, my deadline is like next Friday. It's the idea of going, maybe we can sort one out.
So we only miss one episode. But I'll talk to you after this. But we'll start to go. We'll sort of go.
Yep. So Tom Hanks on Sunday. The week after we are starting the Halloween season with Shark Week, we are talking all the different shark movies and stuff like that. Halloween week with Shark Week.
Yeah. So hold on. So we'll attack Halloween. Nothing more scary than going in the sea with sharks.
Sharks have got us out of Halloween. How's that been any Halloween thing? Shark movie. Shark movie.
Jaws. It's out of Halloween though. Doesn't have to be set in Halloween. Did you get Friday the 13th?
Did Jason, did you have anyone in Halloween? Did you ever attack anyone with a shark? Couldn't have it. Would it be dead?
How epic would that be? Yes, in person's a shark. And then, like you say, we've got a few things that are hidden between. Hopefully, we'll get a few interesting things.
I know we are looking forward to the Halloween episode on the 29th of October, where we are having a lot of different people. A lot of people have actually asked me to come on as well for the ghost stories. One on all sun years, we're going to turn to that one. Sorry.
Before all of that, we are having our 24 live stream. Which, if you heard we were on the BBC again, Paul, sounding ever so professional. Ever so full. I didn't say I was talking to anyone on that episode.
I'm not trying. We want to be welcomed back. Yes. We are doing the 24 hour charity stream, which is going to be in the team.
We're going to have as many people. This one's going to be a little bit more chaotic than last time, because trying to get people boop in and times of it's not going to happen. We're just going to have people come on and talk to us whenever they want. Have you got anything you want to plug now, Sonja?
No. No. Have you not got to put a hoof to the birthday? Oh, it's Joe's, Joe Borde's birthday tomorrow.
I love you, brother. So he's obviously in Spain now, but everyone wish Joe happy birthday. He also did a really, really good video essay recently on whether anybody in Battlestar Galakika is a good person. It's a really, really good video.
He talks a little bit about Star Trek and other sci-fi in there. He does really good video essays. He gets a lot of views. Go, Joe.
Have you got any birthday in Joel? Have you got any of Joel? If anyone wants to follow me on Twitch, just a little stream every Friday, I've actually got a kind of little following now. I got a raid from a huge, huge streamer recently.
He made it with like 1600 people. I lost my shit. I absolutely like what I do. I couldn't speak.
I was like shaking, but quite a lot of them have stuck around, which is lovely. So there's actually a nice little community building going on there. So if anyone wants to hang out on a Friday. The cult of Sonja.
The cult of Sonja. Yeah. I'm about to hit for me. I'm going to agree.
I was having anything that you do when you put a thing. Oh God. Oh, right. What can I think get it off my head?
We've already done that for the past. The main thing is next Sunday, the 24th, is the Drag Idol All Stars All Winners. Now you might know that I do a little show called SnatchTalk, which covers Newcastle Drag Idol, which is like our premier drag competition, which treats a maid, was the one, and then went on to be on Drag Race and all these other things. Basically, what this is, is they're getting back as many of the winners from previous years, because it's been going since 2006 to perform at one big blowout event at Boulevard in Newcastle.
So tickets available from Drag Idol.co. Because some of them, they haven't told us who is coming back. And so the episode that I've had to film today that is exhausting and write the script and stuff. So it's going to be really exciting.
And so it's going to be really exciting. And some of the fervor back people where they haven't done drag for like 15 years or something, it's like going, hey, are they just going to don their heels again and just come back for this one thing? So it's very exciting. It's going to be a wonderful show.
That's so fun. That's so fun. I used to watch it on a very grainy live stream on YouTube back in like 2013 or something. It was really the talent that the North East have is on Rails.
So it's lush that they're going to be bringing back all the winners. That's so cool. Yeah, it's really exciting. And the fact that there's a bit of mystery about it.
I think by the weekend they will announce everyone's new. I think it's a spoiler. I think it'd be better if they just sort of didn't. Like they just went, hey, on the night, oh, look, it's fucking nice person that you weren't expecting to see.
But I think about it's all tickets that are going, hey, this person's going to be here. But the other thing is that we are coming into RuPaul's Drag Race UK season five is starting day soon. And Bobby's Bar in Newcastle, which is one of the best gay bars in the whole city, which is amazing. They're doing viewing parties with Churica, May and Baddis Duffy.
So what they'll be doing is you can go along, you can watch the episode and with some queens making jokes and stuff. And I think maybe this performance is, I'm not sure. But they have asked me to be the guest for week two of that. Oh, that's amazing.
So if you want, I think it is October 5th or October 4th at Bobby's Bar and Newcastle, I will be there for week two of the competition. And I will be telling you, and there might be a technological aspect to it, which you will have to come down and enjoy. What are you going to be doing to Huva? He's a drag king who is the runner up for Theresa's year, has a drag number where he literally is all about fucking a Henry Huva.
And falling in love with Henry Huva. It requires him to take Huva to a performance. Right. So, well done.
So that's why Graham needs a rest, guys. That's exactly it. That's what I can remember. That's the next couple of weeks.
And after that, I can't remember what shows I'm doing up before me. I'll need to check the list for you. So, yeah. So, we will be putting more stuff out for the charity podcast and what is going to happen.
I'm going to try and organize things a little bit better. It's just one of those things where if you want to get involved, we will try and make it easy for you to be involved. And all the things that are set in stone, like time-wise is basically Emma from the BBC's going to come on around five o'clock to talk about Jurassic Park. And then we have the quiz that's going to go for a few hours.
But everything after that, like, say, game-free problem is basically people join. Like, have some balls as well. This is a challenge to the chat. Think of some subjects that you want us to talk about on the charity day and come on and ask us to talk about them with you and see if we can.
Yeah. And just so we are going to be real. We aren't going to do a lot of the rings chat that day. That is going to be left to December.
Yay. So, yeah. More other rings. I'm going to watch along so YouTube keeps on taking us down when we do things.
Yeah, I can't be honest with you. Come on back with him forwards on that one. Not on the 24 hours. I've lost a catch.
He's gone down the back of the... Charlie, he's gone. He's gone. He's going to have your play.
It's fine. I'm going to say that much. So, thank you. So, thank you in the chat.
I'm sorry, Chris. I got my look. So, same by time. Same by channel.
See you in early, everyone. Bye.