Nerdy Up North Podcast - Game Of Thrones

Hey everyone and welcome to the Nelly of North podcast. You have to know the podcast and it's hosted by Northern nerds. I am one of your horse Sam. And I'm the host Paul.

And it's a bit chilly, but let's be honest, let's be cool tonight. We are joined tonight by two wonderful guests. One I'll introduce as many know her, love her, and like Stalker on Twitch and watch the horror games and stuff like that. We've got the lovely, the newly married Sonya.

So congratulations. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

And we also have with us is Kelly, who is TikTok extraordinaire with a such a strength of knowledge that I am so happy for her. This is going to be a completely different side of me tonight. Then Kelly is here. I need to control myself, but yes, we have the amazing Kelly joining us.

Oh, Sam's went full fun, girl. I'm so sorry. Yes, I'll go back to being me. So, yes, Kelly.

What do you mean? It's a pleasure. So thank you for doing us the favour of coming on. So as with a new guest, and I did pre one, you sometimes I don't want to do depends out spicy.

I'm feeling that even. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Give us a bit of your nerdy credentials there, Kelly. OK, so I guess my nerdy credentials, a kind of TikTok based, that's kind of my little era.

And I started doing a TikTok account about a year ago talking all things, Game of Thrones, some of the buy in the books, the TV shows, you name it, we get into it. And it's kind of grown into a thing, and it's really cool. And it's fun to talk about because for some reason, even though I know Sonya forever, I don't know how many conversations I've had in real life about this. Yeah, we know.

We know. We know. Over the years, I think we've had any one or two conversations. Yeah, it's a good one.

So this is all opening up that friendship now, are we between years? It's going to destroy you, because I think you did one. So other than Game of Thrones is... Well, as a wedding.

We didn't get an invite. Oh, no, it's not. It's a good one. And that moment Sonya was cut off the broadcast.

Well, yes. So other than Game of Thrones as well, what other nerdy stuff are you're into? What other nerdy stuff do you love? I'm not really a nerd.

Right. Don't want to cut me off. I'm not really a nerd per se, because I think I'm more of a casual viewer of other things. I'm a late fan of Lord of the Rings.

Sonya has been on a few years and I finally watched the film like two years ago. I'm late to the game. So I'm a baby nerd. No, you're on a cryptic nerd.

That's all it is. It's just because I've given it as an... Everyone has a bit of nerd in them. Yeah, I think everyone has a degree.

It's coming out any more and more now. But yeah, apart from a song of ice and fire, a game of thrones, I'm not an official nerd, but I'm working on it. So since we've been doing the nerdy up north group and the podcast and everything, you find out that everyone has a thing that they can be classes nerdy if it could be food, music, TV shows, movies. Like the word nerd.

I do too. It's grown so much lately in the last few years where nerds are not a dirty word anymore. So people can actually be proud to be a nerd as I keep trying to sell that shit to a lot of people now. Embrace it, yes.

So, Sammy, do you want to do your disclaimer? Oh, yes. And then we can get into it because I'm so excited for this one. Have you even got me anxiety thinking about myself down?

Well, everything discussing today's episode is our opinion and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, please come and join us on the Facebook group, the Discord, page of YouTube comments, so we can have an open discussion. But what we want to have is anyone coming for us and tell us our opinions are wrong. We can all agree to disagree in fandom.

So let's keep it fun, keep it kind and keep the toxic behavior out of a nerdism. Very well said. So for anyone who isn't already following Kelly, because by the sounds of the whole world and everyone is... And Sam, because she is TikTok fan, shall we see her?

Oh, there's a lot of people being watched. How can people find you on TikTok? Because I am old and don't know how to play like you. If you just download TikTok, I am Game of Thrones historian on TikTok.

And, you know, I've flooded the FYP with many a video, so I'm sure you'll still know. What a fucking title though. Game of Thrones historian, that's take some balls to go there. Like it's...

It does actually. I was like, am I totally... Is this a rock? Am I wrong?

I was like, you know what? I don't get the shit. I don't get the shit. Exactly.

So absolutely, me as no saw. Normally we'll have a bit of a chat and stuff, but I think tonight with the topic being eight seasons and some... How many books do you come and stuff. I think we should get into the topic quite early and stuff as well.

So interesting one I'll probably ask each one of you is, how did you get into Game of Thrones? Was it the books first or did you get introduced into the TV show? So we'll go with Sunja first, because she's looking very, very... Like, studious there.

Yeah. So I actually read the first book before I watched the show, but the first season was out when I read the first book. Right. So I read the book first.

As soon as I finished the book, I then watched the season. And found myself being like, wait, that didn't happen. Wait, this person's not supposed to be there. And then I was living with a friend who had the rest of the book.

So she was like, oh, you should read two and I tried, but I just couldn't get into it and then I ended up just sticking with the show. So I've only ever read the first book, but I started with the first book. That's my story. Cool.

What about you, Sunny? Me? Well, everyone's heard mine, given that if you go back to the very beginning, when we did top five favorite TV shows, nobody listens to them episodes, the bad episodes, story. This came up in my list.

I got, for something that was one of my favorites, I got very angry about it. But I started watching in, when I was a 2012, we just moved into our first flat and we didn't have anything set up TV wise. And one of the minutes at work said, you need to watch this, Sean Bean's in it's fucking class. That's all I got.

It's like, right, you saw this, Sean Bean. Let's do this. And I watched it the first season, loved it, absolutely loved it. And started the second season was just about to start.

I mean, my father-in-law, got them all on a CD. So I could sit and watch them. So I go, I'm very, very judgmental. What's the point?

It's saying I'm a carboat, Sylvani, trancy. Even did a little cover bar isn't everything. But yeah, so we started watching it and I just totally fell off. Like, completely fell off.

Like, I was not interested. But my husband kept on watching it. And he did the whole, he got right up to the red wedding and I'm sitting in the other room, just not giving a shit and he came in having palpitations over this incident that just happens. And then I was like, you know what, I need to do this.

So I started from the beginning. I think season four just ended and I started from the beginning to watch all the way through to season four. And I have been hooked ever since. I even have my very, and I keep forgetting to have this.

I have my very own Game of Thrones fan page. There has over 9,000 people in there. I keep forgetting. I've just forgotten about your all.

She's left. I'm so sorry. We started it on the back of season four because we were in another Game of Thrones fan group. There was a few of us American called Carolyn, a guy from India called Sandeep in another lady called Carrie from America.

And we used to congregate on a Sunday night in this Game of Thrones chat on Facebook. And we get kicked out because the topic would end up on Stannis and my thoughts and feelings on that. And we decided to start our own and I've got about 9,000 people in there. It's so stale at the moment because obviously nothing's really happening.

So, but yeah, still got a lot of traffic coming through. So they've got people joining us. The amount of denarices and johns knows I've gotten there is ridiculous. But yeah, that's my, that's my Game of Thrones start in history.

So what you Kelly, how did you get the path to the historian show is it? The path. It was the show came first. I think it was, I think season two was airing, but my house net at the time was watching the episode in season one where Ned Stark loses his head.

And I was like, what are you watching? And that kind of got me in. And so I was watching the show and then I think it was about, I think it was just before season three started airing that I read the books. And then I read the books, got to date with all of them, and then obviously watch the show.

Developed shall we say? Or go to the way of saying it. So yeah, I was first the TV show and then I read the books and then finished watching the series. Right.

Cool. I've got, I've never read the books. I have watched this show many a times, but I think it was the advertising because Sky was bringing out a new TV channel and Game of Thrones. Yeah, I think it was.

Yeah, so Game of Thrones was the one that was busy, the launch title for Atlantic, I think Broadwalk Empire and the rerun of the Sopranos. They were the three ones that were hitting Sky Atlantic big with to try and get their. And like all you saw was the picture of Sean Bean on the, on the throne. And then there was hints in the background that there was going to be fucking dragons.

I was like, all right, then this is going to be interesting. I mean, so start watching it and like, start telling me wife, my wife loves like say a weird shit as well. So we saw what she didn't get into it at first. But I was obsessed.

I was like, this is the first season is brilliant. There's dragons, there's pig men, stabbing each other. There's boobs. There's boobs.

What more could you want? Everything's just basically ticking the boxes. It was interesting as well. That was the thing.

The story was interesting. So then after watching the first season, I was like, oh, great. This is going to be unusual. You might say, oh, no, I'm not watching it.

So I was like, I'm going to watch it the first time. Then I think as some said, when it got to the red wedding, she called a glimpse of it or heard something online. So she was like, oh, I want to watch it again. So I went back to the start.

So that was like, so I was almost watching it in double time. So I was like, oh shit, I can't, I wasn't allowed to follow on. I had to actually, because my wife's sorry, we watched things together. If you watch it before, you will die.

So I had to actually go backwards and manage to pile it through the few seasons to get to where it was on the TV. So I can keep up with everyone because this was basically the show that everyone loved to spoil. So the mother spoilers I used to come out because it was Sunday night, then Monday at the whole, he couldn't go on Facebook or anything. But I didn't, on Monday until he watched it, because I used to stay up late at night.

I knew I wouldn't be able to avoid whatever spoilers were going to be happening. It was that in the Walking Dead, the literature because they aired at the same time. If you went on anything online, literally spoilers, Walking Dead gave it to everyone's ruin for you. But to be fair, don't watch it, because it got spoiled too many times for us online.

I was watching it, Walking Dead, because it was shit to put in. Yeah. That too. But yeah, I think in the description what I put in, this is probably the most controversial TV show that we've had in a long time, not just because of the subject matter, because of how it divided a fandom, towards the end as well.

I know we'll get into that in a conversation, probably in a few hours time. It's like the one in the chat. It's coming. But I want to talk about the positives of the show as well, because I know I'm like seeing the Facebook group of people in the middle post, sort of everything, who was your favorite character, who did you hear the most and what was your favorite season.

Always you're getting a snarky response, all the mix from the last one. But yeah. But what was your like, the shining point of the show? What would you say was the best part of the show for you?

If you say, I know it's going to be a hard one. So I'll go to Kelly first because she knew what the answer was going to be. It's kind of too bold. I can give you my favorite moment and I can give you, I think it's the best season overall.

I don't actually really discuss season eight a lot because it doesn't count. You know, it didn't happen. I think the best season, just in general was season three, because there's so much happening. And my favorite moment from seasons one to eight is the final moment at the end of season one, where Daenerys brings the dragons back into the world.

I think season three, my reason for season three being the best is because from start to finish, it was full of action, full of drama. You had the red wedding. You had Daenerys turning on Krazness the slaver and giving that incredible. The car is moment and the whole dragon is not a slave thing.

It was just so cool. And I feel like that season was on a, a word trajectory. It hadn't peaked in a sense. I think season four was when everybody was watching after the wedding happened.

And then after that, I got a little wobbly, but I got a little fuzzy. Little fuzzy. That's a pretty important thing. It's been very pretty nice about it.

I say it wasn't a walk rhyme. And I would think of the way people go on. I saw what I said. It's interesting though, because with this show as well, there were so many different little side stories or weaves, little things moving through the seasons.

It's one of the most, and again, I know the other things I get to see, but it's one of the more successful TV shows to keep everything on track and keep the continuity going as well. I know they've got the books to go as references. Right on sample piece. Exactly.

Yes. And I'd like to say that people could fall out and, as we know, like on set, so you couldn't have certain people talking on set. So it was crazy having to go. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's go with the favourite more than favourite season. Erm. It's really hard.

Yeah. I feel like I genuinely love season two. I don't know why. I just feel like season two is probably my most re-watched season.

But in terms of moments, I actually can't, the moment's kind of message mentioned there, definitely the drecaris there, friggin' the slaves that, you know, when you can't control the dragon, it's incredible. And there's so many moments like that where it's just like actual goosebumps all over your body, and it's usually involving the dragons. And anything Danny does with the dragons is always like, holy shit, you're just so pumped. But some of my actual favourite moments in terms of just being like, and I think this is what's different for me because I'm always like, wow, this is incredible writing.

I absolutely love the interactions between Tywin and Aria when he doesn't know that Aria is Aria. Those are some of my favourite moments just when he's sitting with her, he's letting Aria eat, he's conversing with her. She's learning from him, but he's impressed by her. They're like, singing each other out almost.

Yeah. I absolutely love those. Every time they came on screen together, I wanted more. Yeah.

And that's just a short creation. It didn't happen in the books. You never met. Yeah.

I think that was something they did really well. I think we enjoyed that they put that moments in. It was the one time that almost Tywin let his guard down. And from the only Tywin let his guard down slightly.

More than he did with his own children. Yeah. Because he never saw him speak to Jamie like us, Tyrion or Cersei. So it was for me, I absolutely adore them scenes with them too.

Just to put it out there, I actually have read the first and second book. Oh my God. Yeah. For a dyslexic person and a small writing, Jesus Christ, it takes a look.

I will be there probably till the end of time. And hopefully the last book might be out by then. So it might be. Same question to you then.

Mine is same as Sonya's. I absolutely love season two because Tyrion is one of my favorite characters. Not so much book Tyrion, but short Tyrion. I absolutely, Tyrion and Jamie are my two boys.

And I just love Tyrion being able to have a little bit of power, have a little bit of like, sass when it comes to Joffrey, the amount of slaps that he gave that kid was brilliant. It had to come in. It had to come in. My favorite moment.

It might be slightly controversial because I've put it out into the internet once. I was going to say, don't say the incest scene, please. Well, some people did actually disagree with this. Little fingers death.

Right. He is one of my favorite deaths, one of my favorite moments because it was two sisters finally figuring out that he was such a devious shit and not letting them get away with it. And I love did the finally two sisters out of four managed to put together and it had to be Sansa Dunfice. So like, Sansa has names for everyone and Sansa Dunfice.

Because for the first few seasons, that was not changed from a dumb expression. Mine, probably the season I love all of them all is probably the first season. There's not a bad episode. It takes the story and it sets the tone of what's the come.

And it's a bit like hearted as well, which I think the show needs at times. But again, I just adore the first things because I love Sean Bean and it's that cool with him being billed as like the top star all the way through. We should have known what was going to happen. True.

But it's one of those things, yeah, you expect it. But when it happens, it's like shit, the way we did go there. I think the show did have balls when it came to stuff like that. The surprise factor in the red one is going to be like a big discussion.

The moments is probably not the big moments for me. It's the little bits of humour, the little bits of comedy that's in there that brings a little bit of light to the shore that is very dark and torn. Like the interactions between Termoud's character and Barry, he's like, oh, bring me the big woman and stuff like that. And like we have looked at it all the more cretious than Sinister, but almost a little bit innocent as well though.

I'm like, I'm like, you're doing nothing wrong. I just don't think normal in his life. Like, this is how you would woo a woman. Well then, Peter Take let's characters and Robson, Robson, Robson.

John, John, John Finn. I got to get mixed up. I got to get mixed up. I got to get mixed up.

I got to get mixed up. John Finn, like that interactions and stuff, and then like Jamie's interaction, like all them different, like rather than have like the big set pieces, it's more like little bits of tid bits or like the conversations that have. That brings like, cause something horrific can happen. Like someone get the head chopped off or, like, when the, the hound and it talks and it just in general, like anything you see as comes out of his mouth, it's just like pure comedy go all the times.

times just because of how like so it can straightforward and direct these these these like these like these like fucking content stuff like that and it just cools out. Yeah, I do love the way he says it. I am actually met him at the stadium of light of all places. And I was literally he was he was doing a sign in there and he came with me.

He came with these carrier bug with these dinner in which I was like so precious and he stood right next to us and instead of saying anything to him I just went to come I went to Mcme friend Carolyn. You're on. He just looked at his smile and walked up. Let's go away from the crazy gossole idiots.

Yeah, don't talk to the crazy. I do love John Blaine. I love the fact that him and Lena Heaney never ever have a scene together. Yeah, yeah.

Never, never, never together. Never together. I could run it. It was in her contract.

Yes. Yeah. The one to be in the same place together. Getting love it.

So as you said, you've read the books and you've watched the show and stuff and all as you said, as Sonia pointed out, there's big differences at certain points of certain things. Where do you think I don't want to ask the question, which do you think better because I can say that's just my opinion and stuff. Where do you think like the differentiates or like what could have improved on certain aspects? It's only one because you could go back to season two and there's certain things in that season where I'm like, like the moment where Daenerys goes into the house of the Undying, that's one of my favorite moment in that entire because it goes into all this detail about these visions and she just ceased up on the show, but it's amped up to such another level in the books and that was like it was a missed opportunity.

They could have really gone for it. So I was like, hmm, but then you know the show, it was going along nicely. I feel like the shift for a lot of fans who read the books and watch the show, it's kind of around the end of season five because as the books end, Jon Snow has not yet been brought back. So his creation of whatever he's going to be because it's kind of assumed he's coming back but we don't know what form.

That last three seasons, that was a bit of a weird one because from what we understand of the story, when you bring someone back, they are different. They're missing a part of themselves almost. They're not who they were. There's a darkness there.

And so I think when Jon was brought back, that was the shift. I was expecting him to be really dark and lean into things that people might not want Jon to lean into, which I get a lot more from his book counterpart. And it kind of came across like it was just that whole thing with Jon being betrayed by his own people and left in the snow. It felt a little bit like it was just a plot twist to get him out of the night's watch.

So it could go on to do other things. It was so like, it could have been a bit more special typing, but instead it was just like, okay, this is just a point to move the story on. Yeah, I'm off by guys. And I was like, oh, and I was thinking, are we going to get like a darker Jon because there's got to be a price to be paid for bringing someone back.

It's not like it came off in the show. Like, you know, you can just bring someone back and it's fine. And that doesn't seem to be the case. Yeah, it's really interesting that you said that as well, because other shows like sort of go off in different topics but do do that same thing.

Like if you look at mine and son, you're saying, Buffy the Vampire, every time Buffy dies, oh, it's killed and she's brought back. She is different. She has changed a little bit. She's not quite the person she was.

So that would have been quite interesting because when Jon comes back in the show, he is just Jon Snow, just with a few extra scars. Yeah, he's been annoyed. He's been betrayed. But he's like, thanks guys.

I would be slashing at people when I was leaving. Exactly. Does he die the same way in the boob? Yeah, yeah, he's basically a fan bush, essentially.

Doesn't see it coming. And he's not yet been brought back. So one of the theories among like the book fans is that he will be brought back, most likely by an Alessandro, but it's not going to be a clean cut thing. There's going to be something's going to have to be sacrificed, somebody or something, right?

In order to, because it's kind of that only death can pay for life thing. You can't just bring people back willy-nilly and you see it a little bit with Berwick Dondarean when you see how he's been brought back. And it's he's not the same. There's a price to pay for everything.

It's not coming corners in this world, if you know what I mean. I do like that. With them, Lady Storm Hard, when she was brought back, they kept them as brought back. And obviously she loses a massive part of herself because this whole revenge just takes over her.

She's not making any sense. Yeah, she goes from being, you know, I mean, people criticize Katelyn for different reasons, but she goes from being a loving mother to now somebody who is debt set on revenge. Doesn't matter what the consequences are, she's just tunnel vision. She wants to get revenge on the Boltons, the Frasiers, the Lannisters.

And she's almost to me unrecognizable because of what she's been through and what was done to her body and the disrespect and everything and all that. And now she's, you know, she's on more now. She's after her. She's on one.

I was going to ask about that as well because with the books, like as you said, Lady Storm Hard was brought back, but they left her out of the actual TV show, especially with the show. If you think about the show, because I could be wrong here, but I might have read somewhere that the brought didn't bring it back because it said it would be too out there or the fans might not accept it. I heard something similar. Very similar to what you just said, but they didn't do the Storm Hard angle because they thought it would detract from what was going to happen to Jon in the next season.

But then they didn't really do it with Jon. So they could have gone to John Hardin. I thought they might. They didn't, they didn't, I think they didn't do it because they don't have the balls to do it and they don't have the tenacity to like to, because they're terrified.

If they don't have Georgia or Martin on their side to give them what they need, they don't know what they're doing. And that is completely evident from the end of the end of the series once the source material is starting to dry out a bit. I will say there are some good moments that show created. I'm not a hater.

There are some brilliant moments that did not happen in the books. And I'm like, that was amazing. But at the same time, when you wear them up, I think people would say for the few moments that the show created that weren't in the books that were from their own minds, there were so few of them. And there were so many things that could have gone differently had they been a bit more loyal to the text.

But then again, it's an adaptation. So it's a caveat to have adaptations of me from Stephen King's web of it. Like, same Kingswakes have improved the end instead. I was like, yeah, Stephen King hates the shining.

He hates the shining. Because it's not like the book. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You do. You hear the Kubrick same version of the Shine and the only one he's genuinely, generally, Hand and Heart loved was Pet Sematry.

Star by me. The one is one of the one. Yeah. But Pet Sematry was the his he wanted to put more money into the promoter for it.

He loved it so much. But there is something I did want to ask Kelly about the Night King. Now, for me and my husband, we were we love this character. This mysterious being that had such a purpose that we were like, who is he?

Where did he go from? Why the fuck was it not answered? Well, it kind of was but not a good way. No, it wasn't.

The Night King does not exist in the books. So it's just the as the leader of the others, the white walkers, he's just a show of creation and they don't have like a centralized person. Like he's a figurehead. I honestly think that the root of the problems on the show, regardless of people's taste and preference, it comes back to stripping the magic out of the story.

Whenever you have a problem, I always find you can track it back to, well, if they're just gone down the root of the books where the magic is strong, it would have come across better. Because the thing with the Night King is it just sort of, he was gone. It was like, oh, that's it. I was like, I love the moment.

I was like, yes, get him. But it was just, I don't know how tied into the story that character was because it seemed like they were just floating around. No one knew what they were from. No one knew what they were about.

You knew they were bad. It's not good, but we don't quite know. And it is similar in the books. We don't really know what they want.

We just know it's bad. Yeah. Sorry. I think I was going to say, I was going to say, I was going to say, I was just going to say, I think with the characters and like going back a little bit to the Lady Stormheart, one thing I wanted to touch on as well is with the show, when the like, because the show at the start and throughout did have balls and what it did, like the first episode shows Janie and Cersei banging and then paralyzing your kids.

So again, going from that. In-sest and killing kids. Yeah. And then like say the fantasy realm, like we've had witches, we've had dragons, we've had tree people, we've got night walkers, we've got zombies.

For them to, like, as I said, my impression, like, Kelly makes more sense now, saying that they didn't want to detract from John. But like, it's an impression I got, it was like, people thought, oh, it would be too out there or too much fantasy. I was like, we're there. I think they underestimated the viewers a lot.

I think a lot of people, yes, a lot of people around the world love this show, but it's very popular with people who also love fantasy. So if you had leaned into that angle, people would have been very receptive, I think. I was going to the season over as well. Well, easily.

Well, apparently, Jojara Martin wanted to do 10 full seasons. So they were the works. Yeah. This is where my round went on over the hall, my favorite TV show.

They were offered three extra seasons with it. X amount of money didn't matter. Cost wasn't an issue. You know, three, you could, to be honest, HB always said, whatever you need to finish it, you can have that.

Yeah. You just have, they got offered Star Wars, the pair of them got offered Star Wars. And they went, yeah, fuck this. Let's just crack on with Game of Thrones, get that finished with one season done.

And just we can move on to Star Wars, then saw the last season and how they reacted with it was the whole comic con incident where they didn't show up and they let their cast take the brunt. And I think Disney just went. Wasn't it the comments that got sacked because of the comments that made saying that they weren't writing for the characters anymore. They just let the cast do it.

I know it was a combination of things that Disney just went and take that away from. Yeah. So the Netflix came in and went, yeah, and then Netflix came in and went, well, we'll give you this just to sweeten the deal, but go and do Game of Thrones and not won't. Yeah.

Thank you. I think the Netflix deal and the Disney deal happened around the same time. And they both just detracted away and said, no, you know, haven't it? Have you ever actually looked at their writing credentials before?

Hmm. Oh my god. It's really bad. Yes.

Massively. Yes. 100% you do. I think one wrote for like a B movie and one participated with a TV series that didn't quite take off.

That is literally their writing. So how the fuck did they get Game of Thrones? Because that's because it was really clever. I know, but where any clever are pitched so many ideas on this podcast that would make us millions and no, but we haven't got the balls to go.

Excuse me, Mr Martin. Would you mind coming to dinner with us? Mind the cage. Monster movie universe would be billion-dollar franchise.

Nick Cage. Every single monster movie have him as the Wolfman, husband of Frankenstein, having a creature on the Black Lagoon. Have Nick Cage. Every single one of these characters.

After he was Dracula, I wonder. But yeah, that's my pitch. Which is really clever. And they ran George RR Martin's in the dinner and the only reason they got it for is because of the, he says, so he was Johnson or his mother.

And they quickly came up with an answer that apparently George liked. They never confirmed what it was, but that's the reason they got it. And obviously George wanted to, it was, here's what you're always interested in. How could you not say it?

But yeah, it was a pop look that they got at the fucking abysmal, the type of them. Anyway, to the bum of twins. So come back to Sonya as well. So I know you've read the books as well.

What was your first one? I'm just the first one. Sorry. So what I've done, because I am very sad, is I have watched a lot of videos similar to what Kelly does, where I have spent hours watching video essays about people who've read the books.

Or I know a lot about- I know a lot about fun theory. I know a lot about, I actually read myself the undying that the visions that Danny has. I love that chapter. I read that chapter.

And I wanted to read that chapter because I wanted to know more. So I'm sorry, I haven't read the books, but has researched a lot of what happens in the books I know about ladies going home, etc. But what I wanted to say, I wanted to go back to something Kelly said, right? Because it's just popped up.

I spent the day watching clips from the show, just trying to refresh my memory. And there was a few nightkin clips in there. And I said, a cocksy, like, we still like, no, still little about him and what he wants and stuff. And in my head, I was thinking, is that bard writing?

And I was like, you know what? Like, I feel like, and this is me getting a little bit more like political, maybe a little bit more metaphorical. But like, isn't that you? No, isn't that like similar to like so many actual walls, though?

Like, we don't know what they want. We don't know why they do what they do and they're never going to tell us. They're just going to kill and push forwards. Like, in a way, it's actually quite, it's quite like a hot topic.

Like, do we ever actually need to know why he's doing what he's doing? We may never, we may never need to know that that is not the game. Yeah, I'm sorry, I've already brought by the winners though. That's the thing as well.

So whoever wins gets the top of everyone's like, so excited. But when it comes, as you said, Sun is hitting me on the head when it comes to wars and stuff like that, if you don't really get the full picture or you get the little nuggets at the one door stay here, the propaganda comes out. And like, as you said, if again, not to probably shut down or anything like what if we were in Russia, we would get into one thing. And if you're in Ukraine, you're getting to other things.

So, it's a difficult situation and special. Like, that's probably what's what happened in Westeros with the North and stuff. The North was being fed the truth. And then they certainly saw the bastards.

Sorry. We can say that. No, this isn't near you. It was basically, um, films like Keeps in.

Like, as you said, when we got towards the end, where it's like in this, like, coming, coming in, you see if and Daenerys was full batch, it crazy and says, no, I want to watch them all burn. It's just like, it's the game. Yeah. Would she tell that?

Would she tell the full narrative after the event that's been over? But who really did win or that? I think who really did win? Yeah, like history is written by the victors, right?

So, Yeah, that's true. It's so common to see as well. Like, this is season eight, right? It's season eight or seven where, um, where Brian has the conversation with Sam about Jon Snow and like, says, you know, like, like, seven, yeah.

And he has, like, he goes back and he sees that they were actually wed and stuff. Like, that's something that, even if you were to tell people, Jon's the rightful heir. They're gonna be like, yeah, no, he's not. And that's it.

Yeah. Like, you just, you just say in it because you want in the time. I could be like, yo, I'm the right player. No, you're not.

No, this is the thing, like, knowledge is power or power is power because, yeah, this is the thing, like, you can say anything, but if people are not backing you, they don't have momentum. What is it? There was no dania tests in Wester also. Everyone could have been fucking everyone.

There was. If there was, I do agree with, I do agree with what you're saying, Sonia, about the Night King, but I think for me, the special part of it, and obviously having me grew, the special part about Game of Thrones was fan theory. So when it came to the night, I think I was kind of where my entry got more and more was because of the whole Jon Snow's parentage and how much that was talked about. It's a real rabbit hole, isn't it?

Like, you can get really, really fast knitting. Oh, massively. But the Night King was another fan theory talk about who is he? Yeah.

Who did he come from? I thought he was from. Is he from? Is he from?

Well, fucking Bran. And I genuinely don't want to have a lot of issues with Bran. I just think towards the end, it was piss-per-war writing, however. That was the intrigue about the Night King.

And then House of the Dragon came out and the knife, the Azora High knife, the prophecy knife that has been there since series one is brought up and mentioned so many fucking times. And then Arya has it in her hand and she is the one who killed. That's where my brain started to mouth like, just mouth on chin, just ever slightly. So thanks House of the Dragon.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. House of the Dragon season two trailer has been released yesterday. Watch the through-yours.

Oh, Sam's going full-saupt and now it's fine. She's on TikTok. It's not like she's not like her. No, you said it was like, I'll watch it through your window.

I was wondering how to do you relax. I know where you live, Kelly. Yeah. And so that's kind of like made my mind kind of blow up.

Like, you've created, if he's not in the boot, then well done. You created such a character, such a character of entry, and then you did absolutely jack shit with it and it was so frustrating. I think that was the show though, because it was a show that gave us so much, that you can forgive certain disappointments as well. And I've probably been a little bit too kind at certain elements there.

But if you think about like back through for the seasons, I know, as Kelly said, seasoning is a difficult one to stomach. But if you go back, it gives you so much like, there's so many to entry, there's so much like shock factor as well. I know, like, we'll talk about it now, it's probably one of the most famous episodes or the famous things that ever happened on Game of Thrones, like the Red Wedding, like how that was done, how the lead up to that episode as well, made you fall in love with these characters. And you thought these characters are going to do good, these characters are going to do something really interesting.

And for it just to end so abruptly and so like, to a matter of point, so sharply, was like, not many TV shows had the balls and would be able to do that. And they pulled that off. They pulled it off perfectly. Yeah.

I think we're conditioned to hope for the best. And we grew up on stories of fairy tales. And so we're always hoping that the right people have a happy life, they get the win. And then for it to just be like, no, that's not what's happening.

And it's like real life slaps you in the face. And you're like, oh, okay, they're not getting there happily ever after. Like at all. And there is consequences to your actions, Rob Stark.

Oh, yes, Rob. Very good. So I love that. I think that's what hooked me the most, because like when I first read the first Vogue and watched the first season, it genuinely feels like the show is telling you, these are the stars, they're your main characters, you're going to be following them till the end.

Yeah. And then it's like, You're not going to have to do it's almost. Almost. And then like all of a sudden they're like, they're all dropping and you're like, holy shit, this family is torn apart.

And it's no longer about them. It's about this system that they're part of, this world theory really. And it's all of the chaos. And it's the conversation that Hound has with Aria when she's talking about how she wants to kill Merrin Trunt.

I think we just did it, right? Yeah, I know, right? And she's talking about, is it Simeo or Simeo? The best sword fight that ever lived.

And the Hound's like, yeah, where is he now? She's like, well, he's dead killed by Merrin Trunt. And he's like, Merrin Trunt, we're gonna beg for kids who'd kill Merrin Trunt. Like, how would you better start forever?

That was another fan theory as well. Oh, yeah, Jack and her goal for well. Yeah, yeah, I love that theory. But now I have to have you have to have you have to have you have to have it with, he says Merrin Trunt won because he had a big sword and thick armor.

And it's like, that's such a good point to make for the entire show. It's not about how good you are or how pure or how wholesome your choices are. The man with the biggest sword and the strong around it's gonna win. That's life.

It's shit. But that's life. You're gonna be pragmatic. Having you.

Yeah. But I think back in the day as well, because I know now we are spoiled when it comes to like TV shows, like with all the streaming services and how they get released, like Stranger Things gets released, like six episodes and you've got a weight of a few months and people lose their minds. Are we ever gonna see Stranger Things ever again? It's gonna be possible.

Please. We need to find out Will is the big bad, but yeah. Game of Thrones was the one that taught us patience again, because we got wiggened, wiggened, and you had a weight. There was no like season long, some people actually waited to the full season or half a season out, then binged them.

They were called maniacs, but still. Yeah, couldn't be me. I couldn't be me. I couldn't win that.

But it's so interesting now, if Game of Thrones come out now, like it did, what was it? 2000? 2001? Was it?

11? 2011, yeah. 11? I got the Blu-Rii as 2012 and it just come out then.

So yeah, 2011. So if it came out now, people, I'm not saying that they wouldn't be invested, but they probably would be a little bit more frustration because they would want that stream themselves. Because now, I can say with the TV, with the shows that come out on like Disney Plus, they do the week for week and the complaints and people actually drop off it now because it's the week by week viewing. But I can still remember, like as we said at the start, Sunday nights, was one of the only shows at the time that was streamed simultaneously in America than it was in the UK.

Yeah, yeah. And that was the one I'd ever watched at that point, like at the same time, not having to wait months before it would be broadcast in the UK. Yeah, that was such a rarity back then. Like, man, I think I should think of it.

Yeah. I can still remember as well, this had the best title ever because when we used to do our research for like, like when we don't top five TV shows on New Game of Thrones, I'm just going to pick up. This was the most pirated TV show that's ever been made. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like in time, believe it. Can you not remember? So you've been far, you've been leaked.

Yes. Yes. Yes. The first three episodes get leaked.

I watched them on holiday. Me too. Oh, yeah. I really didn't want to leave.

And then you had to wait three weeks. Yeah. For the next one. I didn't know why should I wait.

No, I'm going to watch them. Yeah. It happened recently with how to do I get season one. The final episode was leaked.

I think it was like, it was supposed to air on the Sunday night. I think it was like Friday. And I just started my TikTok account that week. And so I was like, do I watch it?

I'm watching it. And it was funny, I was like, fair enough, maybe a while back, you would get leaks. I was surprised it happened last year. Like, you think they would lock it down.

And people were like, who's that HBO? Just pressing button. We bought this episode. We're going to watch it.

Oh. That's funny that that still happens. Yeah. Someone was like, that's actually your last day.

Someone called us on the fire. Yes. But I know what you mean by the whole like, haven't the weird. I actually kind of liked that.

And we had learned a lot of patience when I came into game of thrones because we were waiting at 1.2 years. Two years before one season before a season came out. I actually thought season seven was the last one. And I'm like, how on earth are they going to roll all of this in one season?

Yeah. Do you know what? I feel like that's where all the things we started coming in with. Because you would have a week to talk about it and think about it and research.

Yeah. And then that would be when I'd be like, okay, so what happens? Obviously when the books were still running alongside the show, I'd be like, okay, so what happened in this book? What happened?

I'm wondering if I'm ordering a takeaway. So I'm like, I'm trying to get all of this. I'm trying to get all of this. Now we're going to the chat.

I'm going to watch the ordering. They're going to be interested in what you're having. I'm just like, I'm going to order this before the close. I'm trying to find the thing.

I'm going to get all of this. I'm going to get all of this. Sorry. Sorry.

But yeah, Sonya, that was the most fun thing about one division when one division was out, because each week after an episode, you were taught with your friends, like me and Sammy, we're going, oh, Reed, Rachel's going to be bringing in. He's going to be the sign to start the talk. No, that's going to be a perfect way to bring the fantastic following. Oh, Mephesto's going to be the big bad.

That was the amount of times I got shit online for saying Mephesto's going to be the big bad in one division. But yeah. I think in the end, you just started texting me because you've got sick of everyone having a gortle. And I was like, I'm still holding up for Reed.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I miss about T.V shows now. You don't really have these conversations.