Hello and welcome to a very special episode of the Nerd of North Podcast. It's a Nerd of Podcast and it's a hosted by a Northern Nerd. I am one of your hosts Sam and I am not joined by Paul today. Instead, I have a beautiful people coming to join me on this special occasion.
I have Lee. Lee. That's good. That's good.
The beautiful Jessica who just doesn't seem to want to leave us at the moment. Is this three weeks in a row now? Yes. And we have the amazing TikTok extraordinaire, the woman who is going to guide us through this episode with all of her knowledge.
We have a Kelly. Hi. You're making us blow. I'm sorry.
That's the last time I ever do it. On the next one. I'll just go and her Kelly. I don't know.
Yeah. I'll do. You are so welcome. Thank you guys for joining us for this very special episode.
We are going to be discussing the first season of House of the Dragon. As of recording, it comes out in a week and a bit of time. But when this airs and when you beautiful lock and hear it on audio, it will be coming out of the day before. You get your all caught up already.
Gavonized, excited, even though galvanized and excited are exactly the same word. Just up to date. But on your tits off as you'd see in the North East. So very importantly, I will do the disclaimer first and then we are going to crack open the egg that is House of the Dragon.
So everything discussed into the episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, please come and join us on the Facebook page, the Discord or the comment section where we can have an open discussion. But what we want to have is anyone coming for us and telling us our opinions are wrong. We can all agree to disagree in fandom.
So let's keep it fun, keep it kind and keep the toxic behavior out of nerdism. Very well said, Sami. Paul says that so. The culture and the fall of that story.
Yes, it is my battle cry when it comes to this podcast because the level of toxicity that can come out of some fandoms is all the time, all the time, you're spot on. Yeah, we're going through it at the moment of the fact that House of the Dragons coming out, the trolls have come out and also the fact that a new Star Wars series has come out. Holy shit, have the trolls come out. So I say that very proudly.
If you want to have a discussion with us, that's absolutely fine, but we will not tolerate anybody coming for us. So House of the Dragon, 2022? Yeah, it was just around then that I actually started my TikTok account when I first started talking about it was after the ninth episode and I was like, oh, let's talk about this. And then it felt like we waited ages and now season two is around the corner.
So it's kind of covered my whole content creation journey from the end of last season up till now, this whole time, I've been chatting away about it. So it's nice to go back and like recap it all. Yeah. And now you've got like a whole new season, a whole new thing of, because it's going to be really difficult for you as a content creator for House of Dragon and Game of Thrones that you know what happens next.
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, you know, we know how the story ends, but not everyone does. So it's kind of spoiler warnings and things like that. Like only watch if you already know or if you're cool with it.
So I kind of have to gauge each topic depending on what the spoilers may be. Yeah, the whole thing is a spoiler. Otherwise, I don't know if you guys remember an episode in Game of Thrones where Joffrey kind of gives the story away. Yeah.
And I mean, I mean, it's been a long time. Maybe casual viewers won't remember that, but he spoils House of the Dragon and get the ending away just chit-chatting in a random scene in Game of Thrones. So he's walking through the Dragon Hall or Peter, I think it's the Peter, with Marjorie. And he tells her, I pointed this out on a episode before I was like, well, you can't really have House of the Dragon's World because Joffrey already did that for you.
Exactly. He does with it as well. Yeah, that was one thing actually. And before we get into the episodes of House of the Dragon and that that scene there actually with them, Blarion's head is not the scale that they use in House of the Dragon.
They actually change the scale up to how it would actually be. That the other day, I was like, oh, because there's always always complaints from the set designer that this head was too small. Blarion's head would be huge. Yeah, he was the Dread.
He was the Conqueror's Dragon and they were always complaining it was too small. And then they went and made it bigger for House of the Dragon as like balls out swinging, dig into your gun, let's get that head bigger. I think it was when I became a Thrones, I was just like confusion over sizing of the dragons. I swear, I drove on change size.
I just saw it to episode two episodes. Sometimes it was huge and he was finding it again. He was big again. It's like, what's going on with this dragon?
And he did struggle a lot. It's what happened to House of the Dragon. The dragons are so much better. I didn't know normally I am the fact queen.
I do love a factoid. I have a whole series on monsters where I just delve out loads of facts. And I didn't actually write anyone down any down for this one because I felt we were going to be talking a lot about the actual series itself. But what I did read was the D&D where invited to be part of the executive Bruce Juice and team of House of the Dragon.
No. Yes. I don't think I'll do exactly the reaction of the coin back in that beer and terror. Yes.
But I'm going to go on and have some cringent. Yeah. Yeah. I have to keep remembering.
What I like is the to have your name is mentioned and people are recoiling. Yeah. I mean, Carma, I'm just saying. Just saying.
Well, yeah. And they turned it down because obviously at the time, the Disney and Netflix deal was still on the table. Yeah. Remember that time?
Yeah. Yeah. It's not that way. That shit.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even I even don't like the episodes of Always Sunny on the two decades are in there as well.
They like guards and always sunny here. Not today. They're not as bad. They're going to the dawns.
They don't want. But we're not here to talk about them to assets. And it's probably call them. We are here to talk about dragons and Targaryen walking craziness.
A lot of Targaryen craziness. So the first episode is the heirs of the dragon, which is quite fit and given that we are mainly in the first part of the house of the dragon is talking about the who's going to take over. Can't think of the actual proper English word for it. So that's it.
Thank you. English has failed me once again. And yeah. So it's the end of the dragon.
So it starts with the opening scenes of the last king who I do. Yeah. Come on. Come on.
Yeah. You said you're the fan. Yeah. Thanks.
See, that's what you think about check her in the corner. Yeah. You're on the right track. Yeah.
Yes. So he's one thing I would say. The people who are not familiar and they may have heard of Game of Thrones. This new, this house, the dragon, it's set initially around just under 200 years before we join the story in Game of Thrones, just the context of when people like when did this happen?
I get that question a lot. They're like, well, what era is this? It's around 200 years before we pick up the story as we did. And as you say, it's all about this succession, the succession crisis.
And they've got to try and figure out what they're going to do. And that is the opening, the cold open. Yes. Yeah.
What it begins with. It's a title strike at the start. It says, I think it's 174 years before the birth of the book. I suppose the real history, the fact you know, and then there's a wiggle room.
Yes. And I think that's, I think sometimes people might think, you know, do I read the book and do I take it verbatim? And I say, no, no, pinch of salt with everything. Some things like who married who you're going to know those names, but dates of birth, they can be fudged around a little bit.
So it's kept the gist, if you know what I mean. The opening of the book is absolutely brilliant because it does explain to you that this is taken from a mister. It's from his findings. And I love the fact that that's the point of view that you get in because within the game, everything is a point of your story.
It's different, isn't it? Yeah. So this is his point of view. So it is really clever in that aspect.
But when I tried to read it, I was like, I love it. It's a free book. It's like my bread and butter. So that's kind of what I'm used to.
I don't even read that much fiction books. Like I got to a nonfiction. So that's baby why I was like, Oh, I'm used to this kind of format. If you make sense.
Do you know what I should be? Because I only my first my first ever fiction book I ever read was Red Dragon back in the day. Next after that was Harry Potter two years ago. That was it.
And between the interim, in the interim, in the interim, I read about death. I read about mortries. I read about biographies. I can read anyone's biography, like a biography.
I'm a nosey bastard. So I would like to know what everything is in our life. So yes, clearly is absolutely right. The we're in we're looking at an order of succession between the service Targaryen and.
Absolutely. Really? I mean, Rene's. Rene's.
That's the shot. We will have a lot of probably between me and Lee more of trying to pronounce names. Yeah. But yeah, the Queen.
The Queen never happened. Rene's Targaryen. Now, in your opinions, did he make the right choice? Regardless of men and women.
Didn't make the right choice. Well, it was the realm technically because they all kind of put their counters in and sort of were like, we want to kind of, you know, we're putting our vote behind this person. I don't think it was the right decision. I think she was the eldest, you know, grandchild.
She came before was there as an age. It should have been hers. And she's not the first Queen that should have been, but was passed over for a younger cousin sibling, whatever. But yeah, she got screwed over big time.
And I wonder how long it took her to get over that. That'd be pissed. I think there's a lot of misogyny throughout the house of the dragon. I'm so much.
But I think I might sound horrible for saying this. But with the succession and the meal is some. My argument through would be if they have a queen going, it's like, all right, we've got a queen and then three months later, it's like, oh, she's pregnant. Well, it was nice knowing you because the point is good.
And dies. So picking a male ruler gives the realm a little bit more stability. And that's the only argument I can do for it. Because when is the child that knows this type of thing?
Yeah, she's so bad. Us and she's good. What she does is mean, but maybe what's there in her life? Maybe, you know, if she'd been queen, she would have talked on her back.
So maybe she lived a longer life because she was who served. You can make the argument. Yeah. I think for me, what to like the gravity of the show plays out?
I don't know because I think we've heard it had gone to war a lot quicker by the way that call is is and there are a lot more bloodthirsty. And quite often she mentions she's a bit kind of bored by society now because they don't remember the old times. They'd probably been a lot nalier with them leading. But it would have been super serious.
I just have a very calm rain in a sense that nothing much really happened. Yeah. Until the end. So I think we're okay with the lead.
This is the thing that we got back and forth with different characters and different Targaryens. Like, would things be calmer with that person in charge? Or would things go the other way? And would it be even worse?
It would be time to have. Things were calmer for Sarah's but he was shit. Like, I'm convinced that what I am convinced that what was the trying to do? Oh, um, the letter.
I'm in the contract. Yes. I'm convinced that that's the dragon pulled apart me and died of sadness because it had a good ruler and having him right on its back. I think it was such a wet fish.
The dragon just gave up. We were like, I've had it. I've done my time. I'm not going around with this guy on me back.
I think that's Callan. That is Callan. Did it pudge me? I think you might be right.
The thing is, though, for me, yes, Renee's got a fucking really bad deal. But Jessica's right. If her and call us, it would have been call us who was making the calls. It would never have been her.
And I think there would have been a lot more bloodshed under her ring. But for Sarah's, it's just, it's so lovable. I can't hear him. I think the crook of the issue is him getting remarried because you know, you got the chance you're going to have more kids.
And it's like, you've made your bed because you name your your daughter as air. At the end of episode one, there was a boy that didn't survive. But he lost his wife and he's like, OK, I'm going to name my daughter, my only living child, my air. Then to remarry, I get what he did.
But it's also like, oh, you're causing yourself a headache here because then more kids start popping out. And then you get the drama of do you stick with the daughter? What about the son? What does that mean?
And it's almost like I understand he probably felt compelled to remarry in case anything did happen to the one child. Like you want to have a backup. But then it's just the way that could crumble along comes a couple of sons that cause the daughter a headache. And it's a problem.
They're the fucking worst. How they are his children is beyond me because he is such a kind-natured person. I understand his the fact that when this air is named, you know, Renira, is it Renira? Am I saying that right?
Yeah, that's right. When he named Renira, I get why he's doing it for. And it's probably more out of guilt because of what happened to his wife. I agree.
Yeah. He caused that. They had a chance of saving her and he made a bad call. And I think it's more out of guilt.
But the best part about it is regardless of that guilt, he still stands by it. Yeah. But he doubles down to back her up. Like he's even when he's like, shriveled and dragging himself along.
I think that is the interesting thing where I get a lot of people in my comments section talking about who is the rightful heir and things like that. And just a son, Trump, an older sister, that sort of thing. And I suppose the thing I come back to is that when he had a daughter and a son, he stuck by the daughter and he could have changed his mind, but he didn't. And I feel like that is the biggest argument against Team Green.
He could have changed his mind and he never once did, despite being pressured to do so. And nudged in that direction to the point where he fires the auto high tower and says, naphof fucked it all down. And sick of you sticking your orin. I'm not changing my mind.
So we know that there was tension in this family and it just caused town ill from there, really. But there is probably was glad he pieced out when he did. It's a good sidewalk from Padyaz, but sorry, right? This all comes up in a conversation.
He gets not enraged, but for a straight race. It's like he never expected to marry again. He never expected there to be any boys to turn off their stuff. He was so in love as well.
It was the first time around type of thing. Yeah, he's kind of in guilt in himself. If like this wasn't how we thought life was going to pan out and now everyone's bickering at him what he needs to do. And it's like I didn't really get a choice.
How like Paul's emmer. It was like the whole realm is telling him has to do something. Yeah. It was like that's for him in a sense.
It's just kind of like the king has to have a queen kind of thing. It's almost like an emasulating thing. Like, well, what's wrong with you if you don't? So you can imagine people saying those kind of things, the court gossips.
Yeah. You know, I feel like all these different things came together. And he was like, OK, I'm going to remarry, which I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that's the beginning of episode two or three.
Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Because now we have a ring down.
Are we announcing that the end of episode two? Who is going to be? Yeah, so that the episode two episode two, there is things like, you know, call the spring, learn and watch the garden. Yeah.
It's what they're doing. Walk. Yeah. It's what they're doing.
Yeah. So like, did you dare tell you to say this? What did your mother say? It's like that?
I don't think it's until I'm 14. It's like, oh, I'm out. Like I'm done. Can't do this.
That live. Do you know how many times I heard that line in recaps that was like, please, make it stop. Please make the child stop talking. I don't think this area's character is helped with me and my love for him because of who players him.
That has a huge part for me. Patty Constantine is an amazing actor. I absolutely adore him. What nothing but the best for him.
So I don't know if how I feel about him because of how I can see him is any different how I would feel about him from a boot's perspective. So I find that I might find that quite interesting later on down the line when I do eventually because I will read it at some point. I might be on my death bed, but I will do it. Yeah.
When I'm when I'm slagging off the surface, I'm not even anything called Patty Constantine because he is amazing. It's just for services. Just so. Yeah.
It's just so basic. Like what he calls to Patty, I met a bit full of horror basically post filming house. I hadn't released yet to be being over filming. And he was the way I realized it was him because he was stood in front of us in the crowd.
People went to tell us to come on and realize this guy is dressed way nice. And anybody else at convention. He's around. He's like, I'm so loved inside.
And he's super talented as well. And like, I feel like it's like kind of lean around to just look at side of his face. Like, he stood right in front of me. He was still looking like me.
He was so genuinely everything. Dan, who I do monsters with, she's met him a few times and said he's one of the most genuine people. His daughter always comes up to her stall and gets something from convention and said he's just an absolute sweetheart. And last year, I'm a little comic-con.
He's just a nice guy. Like, it's only brief. He's just there for a quick, you know, phone over really, really nice and like chat to people, even though you're on the get, like you're in and out, but he still took a moment with people and he seemed like a really nice guy. I think did such a great job.
Like, he just, I think he that last episode where he's really on his last legs. And I feel like that had to be difficult with all of that, sort of, all the prosthetics he had on everything and then the gown, the whole costume, the crown. Like, that's not going to be easy to move around in and he's sort of staggering in. I think he did such a great job.
I haven't powerful seen that as well. So I'm going to write on near the end because I've got something about that whole bit. Okay. Okay.
But do you think, do you think Viseries, you've been getting such a wet blanket because of your knowledge of Targaryens before him? Yeah. Oh, you go, you go ahead. Sorry.
So, like, Targaryens that we've seen before him, we've got people that, well, we've got demon in this who is like a physically strong character and has such crazy determination and stubbornness. And then we've got other Targaryens on the other side of the spectrum, like Mr. Avent, who are mentally strong and like, just perform the duty and do what's best for like family and the realm, things like that. And then you've got Viseries who's just like, can't everyone just get along?
It's like, that's the most important thing. It's like, it's like, he's going to glasses. That's kind of what I always say. He's, he's wishing for the best.
He's hoping for the best, but it's not always practical. And it's like, you get, he's coming from a good place, but it's almost, he's out of his depth because he's surrounded by people who want to play the Game of Thrones. And it's almost, at some time say, it's like they brought the wrong baby home from the hospital because he's not very fire and below shouting from the rooftops, riding a dragon. He's kind of like the, womp, womp, Targaryen.
It's such a good way of describing them. The whole baby situation is grandkids. Like, you can tell that they're not, what's it called? The Valerian Dude.
They're not, they're not, they're not Leonos kids. They don't have silver hair. It's fully Caucasian. And everyone's pointing it out to him.
And he's just like, well, I heard about the spelling of a dancer. Where's the camera? Well, I'm not thinking of what, one of the things that I will say is that this is like, I mean, I, I'm with you. They're, those kids are not true born.
I think we all know what did not happen in that bedroom. But technically, you could make the argument because Renee's grandmother had dark hair in the book because she's half Baratheon. So it's kind of that, Steve is strong type of thing. And so technically, you could be like, well, they got their dark hair from the grandmother, but I mean, what's going on?
And then I'm going to be holding the chuff. That was a lot of delirious, wasn't it? Like, you're holding the newborn. Like, come on, people.
I think when you get to his grandkids, it's like, you knew when he makes the marriage decision between her and Leonos, it's like, it's really cool by this point. Yeah. Everybody knows the crack about Leonos. Like, it's not exactly hidden.
Yeah. Someone's like, the catch 22. What do you do? In the scenario, if your husband's not going to be helping you to make babies, you've kind of installed up the river really, haven't you?
Yeah. It's his daughter as well. And she's presented in the show as being an extremely loving mother. She teaches in the Targaryen ways and everything like that.
So she's happy. And that's enough that she's happy. So he doesn't make a head which mind to all this logic because I think, you know, for Sarah, it's very, really anti- Targaryen and a lot of stuff he says. I agree.
I think that's what he's spot on. He doesn't like the logic of the way they all go on and stuff. So I think it's why he kind of tests his own children because they come out the most Targaryen just kind of like, more or these bastards. I mean, you've had the fucking damage.
No, but the first episode actually offers up so much. You've got obviously the succession of his aries and his reign and he's made his cancel fork and his hand of the king who got out of high tower. You've also got the birth of his or still birth of his son, and Damon getting taken the piss out of because he thinks he's, you know, potential air material. And it's like, what are you?
No, it's like a soap opera almost. Like you're just sort of dipping your toe into this family's drama. And you're like, the very first episode you're sort of getting to know who is who and what's going on. And you're like, oh, there's some dynamic that play here.
Some people don't like each other and there's this beef over here. And you've got the masters hovering around. And it's just sort of like, it's a strange little quarterly life. It's a weird, it's a weird lot of people.
And all happened in the first episode. I mean, what is genius about this show is the time jumps. That is probably it's seven grace is the time jumps. Cause I think if you stay with far too long with the younger versions of the cast, it's going to drag to where you get to the end part and you're like, oh my God, did you guys not crawl up the original cast for the first five episodes or yeah, I did.
Did you find the change difficult? I don't mind the jumps. I think the first 10 episodes could have been that the original lot just to kind of set the scene a bit more, just a tad more. But that's I'm only sort of saying that because of where I kind of come from with the books and all the extra stuff.
But given, you know, that they don't do so much like so many seasons and what have you, I think they want to do four seasons in total. And, you know, they can't put everything in. I'm just greedy where I would have loved a longer time. But I get, I can see both sides.
I get, I get why they did it, but I also can see, oh, well, if I was in charge, maybe I would have spent a bit more time just in the early years showing how everyone is connected and jumping a little slower. But I can understand why they did what they had to do. They've got to get it all in and get people ready for what is about to happen in season two where it really kicks off in earnest. Yeah.
I think it's a lot of points to like, I'm sorry. I think it's pacing. It's right. It leaves us out just ever so slightly for me because they are rushing to get to a certain point.
There's a club like characters that get horribly sidelined. Why are you like, what about these guys? We got one episode. There were characters that both amazing.
Neither get enough screen time for who they are in the story. You're just like, that was it. That's all you gave me. Yeah.
This is me with Sam Greedy. I want all of this. I'm like, give me more. I want more strong.
I'm like, well, that's all I got of him. Yeah. I would have liked to have seen like, how did we see them to unspoken like, there are things and it's like, how did that come to be? Like, what was what, how did that develop?
And I think it's just interesting because it would give us a bit more of an insight and I know it's not really that crucial to the war that's going to happen, but it's just that background stuff. That's kind of what I love to kind of feed on before things escalate. So I would have liked to have seen how they got together because he's a lot older. Hey, she did.
All right. I would have liked to have seen more of Milli, Milli Yorkok. Milli York, yeah. So she's been in Supergirl or something.
Is that? Oh, yes. Yeah. It's going to be not like a machine, but I hear things.
She got to play the like mean, determined version for Nira, the one that has the eye of the tiger and then Emma Darcy comes in. Is it Darcy or Darcy? Right. She comes in and she has to play this.
They have to play this like sad, beaten down version of Reneira. Yeah. See, I like that. Doesn't get that like till the very last scene where I'm assuming David does a rock and goes, there is no tomorrow and then she turns and she's got the eye of the tiger again.
So next season, we're going to find the dragon. Yeah. I have the dragon. See, I'm going to start with them running on the beach and crop top things and.
Oh, look at that. Like, what? I'm following, rocking and going on. I see.
I love when Emma Darcy comes in. That is that's when I turn around like, oh, fuck yeah. Like her first scene as well. Like, I feel like you're going to agree that first birth scene, like what a way to make your impact and the fact that Alison wanted to see the child to see if it actually looked like her husband's and she was like, you know what, bitch?
I'm going to fucking do it. Yeah. I'm going to walk all the way down there straight after childbirth, just to prove a point because I love that she did it. I felt for her, but I was like, she was making a point to everyone, like, slowly making her way along and all the, the blood and everything.
She never say anything. She was like, OK, if you can play that game, I'm going to make you look terrible. And she did because that was open to that point. I couldn't and you I didn't like, because you just know and I know I love demon.
That's for sure. But when it comes to Alison and when he was relationship, I couldn't on either side thinking how on earth are these two going to end up falling out because for some reason, regardless of what has happened, how angry they are of each other, they still managed to remember why they are friends in the first place for it. And that's that's always there, isn't it? Like there's ups and downs, but I feel like, especially with like hints of what's going to happen in season two, we're being told that both of these characters now they're grown and they're both mothers, but they still have the memories of their childhood friendship.
It's that's definitely being it was reinforced. It was leered out when O'Keeam and tried to reason with Renea and he turned into the part of the book. Yeah. And you can see it enough in Renea's fears.
It's there. That friendship is still there. And it still means something, even though regardless of what side you're on and if you hit Alison or not, she doesn't. It's the only good to hear there.
It's the story of two women, hit against each other, but they're both doing the same thing. There's some girls between the two of them the whole time. They are basically in the same life on two different sides of things. So they're constantly coming to like crossroads with each other.
The decisions that have been allowed to make and be made for them and what they need to do now to protect both their families. But there is, I think, like starting as friends who then being on the opposing sides of the field without any choice as well, because the women are not actually given a choice to do this as a position of being certain. That's such a good point. Like things happen and they are then informed after the fact and it's like the women have got to try and clean this shit up and then dragged into it.
And I think that's such a good point. And I think that's what's going to break my heart is that there are different paths, but there is these parallels and it's like both of these women in an ideal world, had they been on the same side. They both bring different strengths to the table. But because of what's happened, they're on all opposite sides.
And it's almost like neither one can get ahead because there's all these things that they're facing in service to men. And it's always the men that are doing everything and the women almost having to react after the fact. And it's like you're almost having a hand tie behind your back as a woman in this world because you just don't know what's going to happen. And it's the men that are setting the rules and they are the ones that will say you're marrying this person or you're doing this.
It's the father, the husband, the sons, the male gods that are around you. And then you've got these two female characters trying to navigate their individual situations in a world led by men. Yeah, run towards all of us. Sorry.
There's a lot of jealousy from Alice. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'll be pissed.
I should say that like Alice in. Sorry. Thank you. I'm going to take a few moments from the end of the day.
I have appreciated the more thought in writing female characters. They're now not just ticks and dragons. They're actually called the five characters now. And going back to which I played the third, like the first episode.
The first scene was Emma. So I don't know if anybody else got this in the trip. Everyone is coming out the test of this purely on female audience bases. I heard something like this.
Yeah. Partially, they were told by the female test audience, like, you need to go further. You need one son. This has got to be as horrific as it could possibly be because it is horrific.
It can't be enough camera. It can't be as sanitized as it can you. It is what it is. All the truth and the grit of what that really is and how terrifying and awful that would actually be.
Yeah. I mean, that's the people who have been under control. That's what they would watch the scene. It's the terror in her face is so sad because she's exhausted.
She's looking at him all happy. Yeah. Yeah. Down the bed.
Yeah. That moment when she realizes what they're going to do in life over, oh, the panic that just seemed to flood her body. And she is a queen. She's a royal person.
And she has no say over her own life at the most important time. And it speaks to the larger issue of the misogyny. If even the queen, you know, is going through this and has no say, there was, I don't remember exactly correct if I'm wrong. But I don't remember a lot of female attendants.
I remember a lot of masters. There was a lot of masters there. Yeah. And it's just, you make me think, yeah, compared to the other birth scenes that we get in the season, season one, where you see Renira accompanied by her ladies and waiting type of handmade things.
And it's sort of interesting, the different experiences. Yeah. There are some women in the room that being paired with her, but as soon as that decision, they kind of step away to the side of the room and then all the men's rooms in. And that's all they can do.
That's scary. And kind of like, you know, just like, and then you're not doing the thing now. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no.
No, no, no, no. Your husband made that decision on your behalf. Yeah. No.
No. It's just, it's me. It's just turn one for Sarah. So slightly in that scene because he supports her love her so much.
But the idea of her son is more. And the way that she said, sorry. Yeah. The way that she said, you know, this is the last one, no more.
I've been through enough loss. And it's like, she's, she's been all that for you. And you can't even do this for her in. Yeah.
I mean, maybe they both wouldn't, maybe it was out of everyone's hands, but it doesn't look good that he was like, okay, if I'm going to pick her last thoughts on this world was that her husband did not pick her. He did not fight her. Yeah. Regardless of the outcome, he still didn't fight for her.
And it's interesting how Damon has a similar scenario. Yeah. And what's funny about, not funny, but what's interesting about Damon and Bessareis both have to make that decision. And when they were very young, their parents, their mother died in childbirth.
So it's this cycle of women, female Targaryens not surviving and this existential threat and two brothers experience it and both seem to react differently. Yeah. Damon is like, obviously, he seems more torn. That's kind of what I got later in season one where Laina is, it's not even good.
He won't make the decision when he's asked. Yeah. You same offers given to him. Really get super nerdy here as well.
So how do the product of what happens? There's three different types of birth shown in the show. There is, Amazon at the start, you see Laina with hers and Renee wrote with her final one. Laina obviously has a pentose.
I think it's a pentose? Yeah, that's where they're at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a different type of maester and I'll see how many women get.
The position in the putt her in, they've got it on all fours, which is what technically the class is about, the better position to do it or stand up. Renee wrote just the same thing she goes for the crouching position for a more successful birth where it's always known as kind of the one you have the biggest complication with is laying on your back trying to do it because it's the wrong way. Yeah. Right.
It's a problem. Yeah. I haven't had kids, but I understand science. It's a problem.
It went up in history when that version came in, it was getting them to be on the back mortality rate, go through the roof. There's a historical factor when one male doctors started to change the logic. But you see that difference in a royal kind of pung seed, the steeled men going, she's a queen, she must lay on her back. We didn't think to turn her around to any point or see if we could try her in a different position.
Now we'll just cut her on. Yeah. And they think they know everything that there's no telling them they would never hear anything to the contrary. So it's like, what do you do?
And just going back to Visera's decision, like as a parent that's been on this, like in sort of this position where Bex has had a go in and get a C section when Lara was born, we had the discussion of if for some reason I have to choose between her and the baby, the baby, which it's just an, I don't know, I would have to pick Lara over Bex and Bex will pick Lara over me as a parent. Really? Yeah. I think it's time to anyone's into it.
Until you put in that position, you have a noise and then you react. And my father-in-law was given the same question, my sister-in-law was born, it was, we're having complications and it could come down to your wife or your child. And Tony, without any hesitation, you saved my wife. Without any hesitation, just when you saved my wife.
Because they are like such a true love story, the two of them. But yeah, it's, I don't think anyone can question that decision unless you have to make it yourself. I don't know if it's a thing. No, there's not.
Obviously I've had to see that in twice with mine. I think that's that question of my part of the first time, because I was talking to a separate group and I went, I didn't even see anyone. I know they were just talking. He wouldn't tell us that question would be asked to him as well because it was complicated for the first time around.
He didn't tell us that they'd asked him anything like that. That was just me and Bex having a chat with each other. Oh, I didn't. I didn't even ask her this.
So you did ask her that decision. I mean, she did flatline for a bit. So it was. It was very teacher and I think that's why they get it perfect with Emma in that scene and using on test female audience and for any, I don't know if you're part of this watch house of the dragon which has the same perspective when you see it happening like, oh, I already know like how even with good drugs, it's still not a pleasant scenario to have.
Yeah. I think it was deliberately visceral like they have to make it, it was hard to watch. But and I understand when people say it was a bit much and I get that, but it's almost like you have to see the reality of it to understand the gravity. Yeah.
Probably best that they kept it in. But then I do think it's real. That's how it is. And I was in those days and it's there's a lesson to be told from that.
But I think a lot of people, it was a shock. They weren't expecting to be so graphic. I think that's the thing. Is this is this the last birth that we're mainly talking about here?
Also, I was talking about the first one. Sorry. Emma's birth just because I feel like with the first show, first episode of the first season, people were like, oh, that happens as well. In the first episode, like straight out of like the gate, they're not shying away from the graphic nature that, you know, Game of Thrones was so well known for as well.
And there's arguments on both sides as to whether you need it to be so mature to us, whether it's sometimes excessive, but then at the same time, it's like, it's real too. So it's hard to find the balance. We see everything that the men go through where it's like just going into battle and things like that. And if you didn't put in these bits about what the women are having to do for their duty, like it's to be enforced into, uh, there wouldn't be, you wouldn't see what shit they have to take.
And this is what you're about women and the struggle of women. It really, it really is. Emma, when she's saying to her and he reports she's had the kid, but she's really reconciled. She's like, but like the bed is out about how fields.
It's like they have that. It's like, this is ours and it'll be yours one day as well. Like this is how we do our part. And it is great to do it alongside the, um, the tournament that she's giving birth.
The flash of the. All the blur to all that. Oh, God. It was the well filmed though.
Like whoever's decision was to jump between and back and forth. I thought it was a brilliant idea, such a great show to us. Yes, exactly. Men and women and their struggles and their battlefields.
Yeah. And we get to see the arrogance of demon in this episode as well, especially when he, because you've had, you've had the succession part with, you know, same as he has, and then you've got the, the stillbirth, which was horrific, the, the tornado that's happening at the same time. And you also get a funeral as well with, um, bail on the full spectrum. Yeah.
Oh, with a little, the little baby. Oh, that was so sad. A little, the little thing wrapped up. Oh, yeah.
And you get to see a full Targaryen funeral. I mean, you've seen, you've seen, sorry, oh, they're going to get, you've been in a bit ages. I don't know. It's been wandering around.
I'm trying to get him to come up to come and say hello. Sorry, I'm in the back. It's okay. It's, it's normal when Joe is on, one of our friends, Joe, he goes every time he sees his cat.
My cat's coming in all the time. Yeah. My cat's coming all the time. The very monsters audience know them very well.
That's why they've even stopped the whole episode with a flick of his tail. But we are, Damon does the, it just shows up to his list and tacky he can actually be. Was when he calls, isn't it? It's like, oh, why?
Like, what can you fucking, if you've got nothing nice to see, keep your mouth shut. But he points out that it was the, the air for a day. It was a low blow of this. I mean, it was true.
He was caught in the door. You don't hear him say the words. Or it was said he heard him say it. I think he probably did say it.
But this is, that's, that's exactly what I always try and tell people you put the nail in the head. We're told he said it's fine and reliable source. So it's like, how much do we trust it? But then I, he probably said it.
He probably said it. Or a version of it. Or he co-founded and sort of nodded as someone else said it. And it became, he said it.
But I feel like, even he didn't say it, he was thinking it. Oh, we've never done that. We've never done that. We've never done that.
But that's true. He thought he was trying to pay some sort of respect to the air for a day. You know what? It's all about context, isn't it?
Because you're in the scene with the person and you know their intention. We don't know if he said it in like a, let's raise a glass, not in a mocking way, but in like a, it's a sad situation. You don't know. So I, you know, devil's advocate.
He could have been like that. But he had, I mean, he had had the whole conversation with Otto about when he got scoffed at it, even being considered as an air for his air. So he's probably, they've got a longstanding beef, haven't they? They do not like each other.
I think that's like another thing for people who are coming into it and they're like, oh, that guy is important. So is he and they hate each other. And it's just another layer of dynamics. Yeah.
Because you know, it's, it's interesting about where it started the show, picking up the story where they did, because George RR Martin, it said, it was up to him. He was started the story 40 years before in the reign of Jerry's and Alison and started laying the groundwork. And it would have been interesting to see when Otto first came on the scene, because he's kind of got a carve out a place for himself and he's come all the way up to being hand of the king. And then Damon's looking at him like, I see you for what you are.
I see you for your sort of climber. You are your second son. You've got to carve out your own niche. But Damon's like, you're not doing it at the expense of my family, because you know, we are Targaryens and close to God, the men and shit from the reach.