Nerdy Up North Podcast - Labyrinth

We are live. Hello. Hi everyone and welcome to the NERDYO North podcast. It's an early podcast and it's hosted by Northern nerds.

Hi, I'm Waniahosam. And I'm the other host Paul and we are joined by literally the nerdiest of nerds this evening. As soon as we announced that we were doing a labyrinth episode, I think this was the most thought after topic that we've had in a while. Like literally people were actually saying they wanted, they wanted, we've never talked to before and I was like, okay, this is getting quite interesting.

But yes, we are joined by like say regulars of the podcast now, shall we say it or invaders of the normal podcast, shall we say? Because we've got Graham who is normally star trekking across the universe with Goodwill has joined us and we've got the lovely Dan who is Sam's partner in crime, who keeps the company on a Monday night when all those scary things come out to see a boo and stuff like that. And me. I'm down.

Hi Dan. No, no, no. We can't cross the streams like this. I was just like, I'm going to do a paradox about it.

I was going to have old gimmicks now. Good one's going to explore. Yes, and we are joined by the labyrinth aficionado, the person that has been busy. I was actually a little bit scared when I announced that was doing elaborate episode.

My inbox has never been in box so quickly as when Sarah got in there, I was like, I am coming in this episode, you have no say in it, you can go up and get fucked if you don't have me on. Oh my god, Sarah. I deny everything. That's why.

I'm just glad we have an expert. You know, I just had to be asked somebody to real time like the Pokemon one where we're like, Hey, we kind of know this thing, but you know, we're going to talk about it anyway. I like the idea that Sarah actually has knowledge. It's not a good thing.

It did go in all the places that we probably expected and we had fun with. We're already talking about the polls with lines like that. That's right. I'm back.

Yeah, so Sami's just back just a little bit more time than the normal coffee self that she is. I have color. Jesus. But I'm also joined by I've got a dog behind us.

I've got one here and I've got one in the corner. So I apologize if we hate doggies. That's what I was a gym, Jim Ensign's workshop all around. I asked her earlier, but is one of those dogs riding another one?

No, they say, yeah, this is the one who's tongue doesn't go in. It's not even wearing clothes, Sammy. It doesn't even have a little rod stick. I mean, you know, like.

Salant salaam. Yeah. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

So yes, we are doing, as I say, one of my absolute favorite movies to the, like, say, with it being a child of the 80s, we are going back in time in the magical world. That was labyrinth. I don't know if Sammy wants to get a disclaimer out early because there's going to be opinions. Yes, I do.

So everything discussed in today's episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, please come and join us in the Facebook group or the comment section and we can have an open discussion. We won't have anyone coming for us and tell us our opinions are wrong. We can all agree to disagree and abandon.

So let's give it fun. Give it kind and keep the talks of behaviour out of the nerdism. Well done. It's like she's never been away.

Did you hear me? I did not. Did you try it? I did.

I did. I did. I was just shambles without you, sir. I'll have the word in that last week.

Yeah. I said a lot of other words during it as well. Oh, okay. I didn't know.

I didn't get a chance to catch the beginning. I did jump in at one point before I went out, but I didn't get a chance. So well done. Well done.

Oh, I got it. I got it. For the upcoming season. You're still at the end of your day.

And we're about to go. Wait, are you still in the first place? It's just so white. I'm like I'm like, what did you do?

I'd say if you're enjoying seeing your face rather than looking down on you as well. So it might be a new look you have to take up there, Sammy. We'll see when I get back and if I can get the correct camera angle, but yeah, I'm using me for one tonight, so I can't see any of the chats. So I'm very sorry.

But it's good quality for my phone. I'm quite pleased with this. I have to say I was shocked when I actually met you in person for the first time, because I didn't know if I had to leave. I genuinely, in my head, I thought you were like four foot tall, because I'm so used to seeing you from a distance.

I mean, there's a little tiny square on the thing. And I'm like, oh, she must be really, really small. And then you meet, you're like, you're my height. Oh, I am a giant.

I'm 5 foot 9. But I've got the exact same way when I saw you. I was like, how are you at all? I'm square accurate.

I'm square accurate. Paul can attest to Sammy can attest to this. This is really how small I am. She's a tiny little dog.

Yes. And she was impressed with the size of goodwill. We'll leave it at that. Let's rewind that.

So, what I said to him was, you're taller than I thought you were going to be. Let's clear that up. Thank you. In order to besmirge anyone's character there.

So, yeah, sorry. So, yes. I don't have one. So, yes, Wendy, I'm going to talk about labyrinth and actually we'll get the bulge out the way first.

So, what was the thing I threw at you today? The Labyrinth, the movie. Gryum. Oh, me.

It's one of those weird things where basically, I don't remember seeing this as a kid, but I must have done. I really must have done because it would have been on TV and stuff. But I saw this way later and it was almost one of those like, yeah, you know the movie Labyrinth. I'm like, yes.

And then watch it and I'm like, I have no recollection of this place. But obviously it hits you because it's so iconic. It's one of these ones where basically people are like, this is never going to make money. This is never going to be a success.

And then you're like, look at it now. And I think that was the wonderful thing about the 80s, where studios were willing to take risks, you know? Like, stuff like Labyrinth and Dark Crystal, where you're like, yes, they might not have been box office smashes. But they are a linchpin of nerd culture nowadays.

And it's just nowadays, it's like, oh, well, if we don't know, we're going to make a fortune with it. What's the point of making this movie? And you're like, you're missing the point, I feel? Yeah.

But yeah, but so Labyrinth is just something that I didn't get into. It just happened. And it's a movie that obviously, Lee in the chat is going, oh, I haven't seen it. Someone needs to convince me that it's a good movie.

So I'll watch it. You should just watch it. You know, how have you avoided it? We've been trying to get Lee to watch it for such a long time.

And then you want to watch it? You want to watch it? I've got Poppits and shit in. Oh, I'll tell you what, Lee's not coming back on the podcast, until he's watched it there.

Pass. I'll be that much of a dick. That's the tagline of the movie, by the way. It's got Poppits and shit in it.

Poppits. We've got to, I think, the tagline for the podcast in the description. I've got going back through a time with Magic and Muppets. So, but yeah, I think Muppets was around Muppets in.

It was Jim Henson. So, it's a terrifying question, like, say the Muppets, but I remember reading it not to long or that this was the movie that really kind of broke Jim Henson's heart love it as well. Because it flopped big style when it first came out. Like it really didn't do well as they were expecting.

So when Jim Henson, like, this was like his labor of love. Like, when he made this movie, he was going to be absolutely fantastic. This is the blow over the way. But you can see why when you watch it back, like I watched it yesterday and how dark and everything it was.

It's very much of its time. But it's kind of like the age well at the same time as well. But if you think about where it came from from Henson, or Henson had just finished working on the Dark Crystal when he went into the dark crystal as a hell of a love dark and then labyrinth. Yeah.

So this was actually a lighter movie. It's still scary. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not denying that.

I'm just like, I think it's the harshest threat in this is that you're going to smell bad forever. It's that weird thing where it's so kind of, you know, there is no threat. It's the idea of, yes, the baby will be taken, but he'll be raised by the goblin king. It's like, it's not like Dark Crystal.

That's like, not death. Everyone dies. You know, so yeah, you're right there. It's the, I think it's the tone.

I think it's the colors of the tone that stop it being a, you know, like a happy, clappy fantasy movie, but you know, I think my earliest memory is this used to be like a bank holding movie. It used to be on every bank holding TV because he used to have adverts. I remember like certain parts in the movie where the advert used to come. So you said, recognize it because it never used to change from year to year.

But I was just transfixed. There was, as Sarah said, there's certain elements in the movie that does terrify like the hands and the floating head guys. Oh, yeah. It is suit the elements.

I didn't know something until I watched it last night and done actually sent as a picture as well. And it was literally the same time to send as a picture. I was like, holy shit, it's like literally it was like, we'll watch it at the same time, which was a bit scary. George Lucas, I was involved with the production of this as well, which I had no idea about.

No, I don't mean either. I saw them for all that. He was also. So, it's literally loved that he'd off through it.

It is. We went insane. It came out in 1986. Yeah.

Yeah. So, like, it is the first film I ever saw at the cinema. That's how old I am. Oh, it's amazing.

I was six years old. My sister was four. And I remember vaguely, it was like a really old-fashioned cinema that my mom and dad took us to. And I remember my dad is a typical dad and the bog of eternal stench, he was wetting himself.

And at six, you think, farting's funny. But then when you're 43 and you watch it back and you're going, they look like butt holes. And you can get it even more now, you know, like the more you look into it, the more you see. But yeah, it's the first film I ever went to see at the cinema.

And I remember I really didn't like the floating head. So that was the only thing that I took away that I didn't like. But I just remember thinking it was the best film I'd ever seen because I was, I was, I was bought up on a diet of the muppets. My mom said, whenever I got sad, she put me in the high chair, put the muppets on the TV and set me in front of the TV and raised the dance to the muppets thing, June in the high chair.

And because it was like my favourite thing and I loved Kermit and I loved Fuzzy and I loved Gonsai Gonsai, which was my favourite. But yeah, so like a knock on effect from that was this movie. And if you look at the scale of the amount of puppets that were made for this, yeah, you take it for granted as kids because you think that it's all real in your head. That's happening.

Yeah. And then like last night I was really trying to take in how much I was looking at and Ludo alone is huge. And I don't know why my brain hadn't quantified the scale of Ludo really because I think when you remember back I was always just like, oh, yeah, he's what everybody's fighting my brain. And then like, you see him, he's about six and a half, seven foot, maybe even a bit taller than that.

But he's really standing up. We have, actually, when I saw like, as you said, the scale of all the puppets and one of the comments that we made, like, maybe I didn't want to watch it, yes, I'm near to watch it as well as I'm very happy. But basically, at the near that movie now, they wouldn't use the puppets. It would be all kind of like CGI and all that elements.

But a bit of the magic elements would be kind of lost. But we were bad laughing at Ludo just because when he turned around, Ludo has one of the most ridiculous arses you've ever seen. It's a proper like chunking thick girls' arse as well. So it's like Ludo's got back and just like the details and the amount of stuff that went through.

And like, if you look at Foggles face as well, like each blemish or like things that have made into it, like that would have took someone hours and hours and days just to create. Especially with how, especially with how underused some of them are, like, you know, the magic dance scene, where it's the idea of just being like, there are how many puppets are in that room? How many goblin costumes, you know, you have people in costumes, you have actual puppets and stuff, and you don't get close-ups on some of them. But you know that all of that effort has gone into every single one of them.

And you're like, like, even in the goblin battle at the end, like, it literally has those three ninja, like, goblins that appear and then get hit by rocks. Those are full costumes that have been made and they are there for one shot. And then, nope, cool. Like, it's crazy the detail that Jim Henson's creature workshop puts into all of these films.

And you can see why he'd be devastated because no one can accuse them of not putting passion in his proper gesture. Jim Henson in himself was, I would almost say it was like a personification of magic, and he put it into everything that he did. Yeah. You can see why, yeah, you can see why George Lucas and him got on because world building, you know, who the people we think about when you think about good world building, you know, like Jim Henson, George Lucas.

Even if you're looking at it from world building perspectives, how many different scenes and sets was there a theme to create this? There weren't recycled. No. No.

The only thing that was recycled is that bloody code or you know, the labyrinth one where he's running down it. I'm just going, why are all these cuts really quick? Oh, it's because they only made like five meters of wall. I didn't know it was a few sketchy green screen scenes at certain points, but that was the crazy impossible filming other time.

As Dan said, the floating head, I can't remember the creature, what's the name of the firries? The firries during that song when they take me to the body parts off and stuff, I got very bizarre very quickly when the CGI like kind of it fitted in. It took you out with the illusion now, but as a kid, you wouldn't have noticed that. Well, it was all black suits, wasn't it?

And they had the puppets on the front of the suits. It was, it was, they had a one person that did the mouth and somebody who did, who's the bodies and the hands and they did the whole routine. And I saw a behind the scenes years ago and then I stopped being scared of the thing. The firries, because my brain was like, oh, they're just, you know, I knew they were puppets.

But you know, you just like, oh, that's how it's done. So my brain now goes, oh, I'm a blind coming over there. It's a pappet. Yeah.

I think that's the only bit though, like when we talk about like, you know, how you would do this nowadays, you're right, it would all be CG and it would be crap, you know, but it's a fact of, I think if you redid it, I think, you know, that that is the only real place you could improve it. And it's a real scene because it is dated. It is, it does look dodgy. But the fact is, nowadays, if he just made the puppets again and did everything the same, you could just make that look perfect.

And say that when I did the Dark Crystal TV series, I think they found a really good balance of how to mix a CG with the puppetry and it worked really, really well. Now, I'm not saying we make the Labyrinth for God's sake, leave it alone. But like, there's a way of, like, they found, I think, the magic there, um, that it didn't insult anyone. I've been talking about the CGI in Lebanon up there, though, even though it was up to today's standards, it was obviously the owl over the credits at the beginning was the most total realistic owl that you had ever seen on TV at the time.

Oh, 100%. And this is like people going, graphics aren't going to get better than this in like video games in like 94. Like, I remember people be like, alone in the dark, it's fully 3D. And you sit there being like, mmm, those years when we weren't actively worrying about the machines or AI, it just being normal.

We're a bit off. It wasn't real back then, but it is now. Um, the one thing I always think is out was with this film as well. And I don't think it does get the credit.

It probably does is how, how great the story is though as well. Yeah, because everyone goes through for the things, but if you think about it as a story, it's very much of a common coming of age, like teen dramatizing. You get the petrioner, the child at the start, don't want to grow up, don't want to let go and kind of like going through this journey and turning into like, kind of like an adult in the way. It's I, I, I really want to talk about this because it's the fact that I never realized this as a kid.

Like I never noticed any of the nuance or any of the symbolism in it. And even now, I'm not sure about most of it. Like I'm very much kind of, this is what I think it is, but I think that's totally wrong. I mean, like, um, my friend Baron was talking about the, um, the novelization they released at the same time as the movie and that adds loads of stuff in.

And I was like, that totally changes the, how the plot is. And, and you know, when it's the official novelization, you just go, then it's approved. So that means that's, but that's not in the film. You know, um, but like, you know, it's the fact of, it's almost like a studio ghibli film, you know, all the stuff happening at the same time where they're all about sort of girls coming of age and like going through an experience that makes them learn about themselves and about the world.

And obviously in this one, we kind of go, she's a right fucking brat at the beginning. Yeah. And then by the end, she's kind of learned about responsibility. She's learned a bit of empathy for things.

And, you know, she's learned a like sort of appreciative brother and she's learned to get, you know, get away from materialism where she's like, she gives up lunch a lot. She's realized that, you know, obviously we have the scene where it's just going, oh, don't forget your bed. Don't forget your, you know, your pop vinyl figures. You know, your Pokemon cards.

You know, and it's very much like, that's it. But you know, it's very much that. And she's like, oh, all of this is meaningless in the face of actual like, you know, reality in relationship. But I actually, I was interpreted it bizarrely that Jareth was a euphemism for her parents, for her stepmom and stepfather in the capacity of, you know, like a song within you, where it's very much them going, hey, I've done everything for you.

But I've realized that I can't control you. I can't live within you as in, you know, how you hear about parents trying to relive their life through their kids and stuff. And that's how I interpreted that. And I think it's all bollocks.

I don't think that's what they intended at all. But that's what I, that was your interpretation of it. I think that's them. Well, mine's different.

I always thought and I don't, I don't know whether I heard it somewhere years ago or it was just something that I thought myself. I thought it was a fever dream. I thought the whole thing was a fever dream because when she comes back, she's been caught in the rain. She's soaking wet.

She gets in and then for the minute she gets in, she's, it pans across every toy. And she owns. And then it does something which I don't know if people picked up Sarah, my old book, the scrapbook. When it pans across the scrapbook, you see lots of pictures of David Bowie in the scrapbook.

And then when she's sitting at the, putting the lipstick on, you really didn't want to talk to me. Wiping it off. There's pictures of David Bowie in her mirror. So it's because that he's actually dating her real mother.

Right. I think a story behind that bit. The pictures of the woman, the pictures of the woman that I'm in her scrapbook and around her mirror is her real mother who is an actress. Right.

And the, the, the, the meal lead and the play that she's in is played by David Bowie in the pictures who is apparently dating her mother. Because I was one of my reasons is where she got Jarrath from. Right. Because I was under the impression, I said it was a fever dream because so much of it was involved.

Like every, all of our toys, all of our trinkets, absolutely everything came up in the, in the, everything. Yeah. And then by the end, she was just, she, she snapped out of it, the parents come home and she was different, you know, but she was still having a little hallucination because she had a party with a layer. So other than that, I was tricking balls the entire deal.

I think that on the magic mushrooms, I'm rather with her. Well, you know, she's a teenager, you know, but it's that thing though, obviously I made a note about the party at the end about how lovely it is that it's like, look, you're coming of age, you're growing up, you're giving up childish stuff like cosplay, because who would do that? See you next week, Sonny Con. On the name's the edge because, but she's given all of this up.

And then like, and then at the end, it's the idea of going, yeah, but you can still have this like us. You can still have these things that are meaningful to you, just in moderation. And it's almost like the, there's a song by the band MGMT called Kids, which is really famous song, but it's about like, it's about the not getting trapped in nostalgia. It's about sort of, you know, going, Hey, you've got to adult now, you can't just spend your whole life thinking about how you want to be a kid again, how you want to do this and things like that.

So I kind of like that she has the party at the end, but she's like, Oh, go to adult. But fuck it, possibly, you know, or my fantasy mates either. I did spend at least four years after watching that movie in waistcoat and shirts and jeans. Oh, please tell me you've got some photographs.

Not on me. There is folk graphic evidence. Yeah, I'm surprised you haven't got the picture of me when I dressed up as Jarrus Paul. I'll be honest, I've had a bit of a shitty idea.

I'm trying to run around. I've had a bit of a family drama book. Anyway, that's the only one I managed to do as much as I possibly could today. So I wasn't going to fuck a lot of people up today, but yeah.

We can do that when we come back from Sunny Card. But yeah, I love that one movie, like, different people can get so many different perspectives from it. That's why I love having these conversations. Because we're down described as well, that's just blue my fucking mind.

Like, I totally see that now after saying that movie. The responses. The only thing that did through me again last night, because when we were going through like the start and just going for a room, you saw the toys, you saw the Wizard of Oz book, you saw Disney Snow White, you used the word Disney, I was like, oh, has Disney got something to do with this? But then in the scrapbook, I had the sexiest fox in the world as well.

It had Robin Hood's fox from the Disney film. Yeah, I was like, has Disney got something to do with this? Or because I know they had to do with Jim Henson, but I didn't know if they had something to do at that time it was me yet. That fox is responsible for a lot of fairies.

Nice. Wow. So did a mess, wasn't it? Oh, no, the first one.

The actual Robin Hood, Disney one was in the scrapbook. Right. Some very confused people out there after that movie. A lot of different reasons there.

It was an awakening for most of our generation, I would say. Oh, that's a good word, a week in here like that. So, I know it's something that's sort of when did you first see the... Oh, I can't remember.

Right. But it has to be, it has to be probably at the Grand House. It's where I saw all of, you know, anything fantasy style in the Grand House would have it like, I don't have the biggest love of this movie like everybody else does. I think, but only because I have a bit of a fear of this style of movies.

Right. The Doctor still probably created that fear and led into this one. It's the aesthetic of it. I want to be there badly, but I don't.

It's kind of like my feverish nightmare it plans to be. So I've never really gravitated towards the love that everyone else has. However, I appreciate this movie for everything it brings. I'm sorry to mention it, but when we do monsters, we talk about the background work of what was into creating these practical pieces and I love the practicality of this movie.

It absolutely warms my heart and glows my mind. Like when Dan mentioned earlier about how many people were like Master of Needs puppets, like, oh my God, that really, really excites me probably in a way that shouldn't. But I just... We found a new thanks for some now.

It really liked puppets. I really liked puppets. It's not a career. I enjoy a man having.

My husband is being messaging me and he knows I can't message back because I'm using me for one. And he's being messaging me some of the worst facts about like, did you know what? Javelin was 16 years old. Take that in Sam.

16 years old. 15, I believe. He's actually watching it because he's just said you're not saying much. So he's watching it.

I think the weirdest thing mentioning that though, it's the fact of I was told that basically like there was a scene where like, Jaref is meant to kiss Sarah and Bowie refused to do it because the actress was 15. But that was a story and he was like, no. So I think it was like in the novelisation that Jaref has an attraction to Sarah, but then Bowie totally played it as a very standoffish way because he was like, no, this is not how I'm doing the character. Good for Bowie, I think.

Apparently Michael Jackson was in the running to play Jaref as well. So that could have ended differently. Oh, okay. Yeah.

There was a few people in for that time. I believe it was Sting and Mick Jagger as well were also four months. I was joking about Mick Jagger and then I was like, no, please, I can bet it's a thing. I can bet it's a thing.

I can bet it's a thing. That's a thing. The entire thing is just the dancing of the streets video. Oh, I can't take another jump in Jack Flashly.

That's OK. Oh, God. Oh, yeah, oh. Mick Jagger, that would be horrible.

How did you discover the movie, Sarah? Um, I was, I was only three when it came out, but I know it wasn't, it wasn't long after that I did see it. I was, I think I was about six. So I'm looking at it about 1989.

But when I first saw it, and I think it was one of those fan holiday TV specials that I actually saw it on. Oh, you know what, it was just, I immediately loved it. I just fell in love with it straight away. And, you know, it's always been the same since.

I couldn't even tell you why. It's just, it's just, it's just open a pedestal for me. I think we have nerdy, nerdness though, where it's the idea of just like, we have this stuff. Well, like, I just love this.

There's no explanation for it. I couldn't tell you why. I just, I have certain movies like that, where I just can't tell you why, what I just do. And you, I thought the movie so many times I had it on DHS, I had it on DVD, I bought it on Blu-ray, I bought it on the 4K stuff, I bought anniversary editions, special editions, and named my first car, Jarrath.

Oh, you were going to say child day, I was like, okay. Not yet. But um, just a quick question is like, what you said you got in 4K, does Bowie's bulge grows in 4K, or does it stay in the normal size through the different versions? It's in, it's in high def.

Oh wow. They put your eye up as well. Can I just say that? That was done deliberately as well by people who were dressing him.

Really? That was the enhancing? It was a deliberate choice. Mm-hmm.

And all there was rumors for years, and we made jokes about this on the podcast before, is that, there's always been rumors that it was digitally enhanced, like, depending on which version of the movie you got throughout the years, like from the VHS to the DVD. It probably just cleaned it up a little bit there. But, and all, um, Graham's got a good friend who likes to cosplay as, uh, well, I can get the picture of you. I mean, oh yeah, I mentioned it's the picture.

Um, I'll put it now with that. So, uh, this is, I mentioned them earlier on today, but this is my friend Baron Leve, who you may know from Star Trekking, uh, with Nodia North, because we had them on as a guest. And they do an amazing, as you can see, uh, Jarrath cosplay, and they've done this at conventions, they've done this on TikTok, there's, follow them on TikTok, they've done a lot of, uh, little skits and stuff as Jarrath. Uh, and it's, it's absolutely amazing because it's like, hold on.

It doesn't show me the picture yet, it doesn't come up on, uh, I'm caught up on YouTube. It's just come up on there. It's just come up, okay. Yeah, cool, okay cool.

No, hang on, no, no, Paul. I wanna see the real picture. That is the real picture? No, show me the real picture.

That's the one you said. Okay, the closer one. Oh, I can't close, oh, do you wanna close up there? Yeah, go on, show me the real picture.

We need to do the X-Men thing, where it's like, no, I want to do the real picture. I'm gonna be like, I want to do this. What am I doing wrong now? Please.

How good is that? How good is that? The real picture. The real picture.

Show me the real picture. I don't love it being that X-Men bit, but it's the fact of like, it's like the hilarious thing is that bold there. I was, I did a talk. I mean, Baron Leve went into Newcastle College, a new castle, six-one college to speak to, uh, the students about sort of dragon, uh, like, uh, sexuality and whatnot.

And this was the picture they used to Baron Leve, and it was on a massive projector screen behind me. So I was literally sitting there with this bold, like above my head, being like, please take what I'm saying, seriously. Also, I'm just tapping you on the heads. That's it.

Oh, it's laughing me. It likes me. Good boy. How good is that?

It is a very good color, then. Well, yes, I don't think I could pull off anything as, as eloquent as that. I've always got to pull off a loot or even make it get in the whole condo, hopefully that would be quite an 18. But actually, I think Baron is going to be at Sunnycon this weekend.

Oh, wow. They're going to be at Sunnycon this weekend with a new jar of cosplay because I know they're working on it. And it's, that's the outfit that we get during Magic Dance. And I think where he appears to her, uh, you know, later on.

In the ball? In the ball scene? Oh, in the ball scene. But, um, but the new one that they're doing is the, uh, the beginning one where she, where she, um, he, Jarif, you know, Androgynous Jarif, uh, appears like in Bedroom.

What does it appear? That's basically got a massive collar on and stuff. And it's like very black. I didn't realize it had bones on.

They were telling me that it basically they're the, the chorus basically has a bones on. And the costume designer said in an interview that they represent the bones of the children that didn't get turned into goblins. And you're like, oh, that wasn't the thing. I don't think it's, I don't think it's canon.

I think it's literally the costume designer just being like, when I made this, that's what I intended. It's what I intended. It's what about the characters that's in it. Cause as we said before, there is quite a lot of memorable characters in this, even like some of the part like Little, Little Camille or something.

Who were your favorite characters in the movie? Or was Sammy first there? Cause she looked like she was going to speak. Oh, sorry.

I just was thinking, oh, who knows that? Um, no, it's the, oh, Gosh, there's so many, um, little caterpillar. Little worm. Little worm.

It's a little worm. Hello. Hello. Hello.

That's amazing. That's amazing. There's a lot of, that's amazing. Come on.

I've got to see. I've got to see. You don't want to go that way. You don't want to go that way.

Don't go that way. Oh, she took that way. She got to go and write to the Goblins King's Castle. We thought she was going to be short of a movie to be fair.

Yeah. We're good on. I absolutely love the little worm. I just, the colours on that worm, like, it was just, are the remains and yeah, I think you're so cute.

There is a couple that I do like, there's a couple of the goblins I like as well. I think the class, the probably little scrunchie theatre. That's mine. What about you, Dan?

Serious look. Um, wondering. I can't say I do like, like, specifically any of them over any of them. I like Ludo because he was like, I don't know, you expect something big to be ferocious and mean and she saved him and he's not.

And he calls rocks. I mean, where did that come from? You know, of all the things that Ludo could do, he calls rocks. It's a special trip.

It's a special trip. Yeah, but it was just, of all the things that, if you go into that film and you've never seen it and you thought, okay, what's Ludo gonna, you know, his thing gonna be? Calling rocks wasn't there on the top of my list, you know. I think that's why a lot of them are trying to see though.

Gives you that option to literally do anything. It's like, how do we get out in this situation? I'm taking top of rocks. Yeah, there is one other.

There's a goblin in the dance machine dancing trying to catch a chicken with a net, right? And that is my favourite in that scene because he spends the entire time trying to stick that chicken in a net and real chicken and he's got like a long fish in there and it's behind David the whole time and he's trying to look at the chicken chickens out of it. I love the whole thing of like the random chickens in all of the goblins. They have the goblin fight at the end and they're just running around and you're like, what the fuck must these chickens have thought was going on?

I know chickens. Chickens are harmed in the making of this movie. There was loads of random animals like we're watching the same last night. There was a random cat just walking on the street and it was like in the goblin city.

There was a cat and that was just one and only a game. So there was loads of live animals used and like no puppeteers like when the crows were on the tree and they might be like robotic crows but none of them were actually like crows jumping along the branches and stuff which I thought was a nice little touch. What about you Sarah? Oh, she's my favourite child.

There's a couple of them already. I always enjoy like any scene with dinner with Cindy and Dan Brousshire. Yes. But probably my most quartered character in the movie is after they leave the tunnels where the cleaner is and the climb up out of the pot and they make the odd man with the turkey hat.

And it's like whoo whoo whoo whoo. It's so stimulating being a hat. Yeah, that's it. He's just like, oh it's so lovely.

Yeah, he's not perfect boy. That is probably my most quartered character that one. So I'm probably going to say him. Cool, very nice.

What were you, Graham? Please don't see the polls. It's just an important part of one. The, I'm the same as Dan.

I don't really particularly have any love for any specific characters in it. I don't think that any of the characters are like lovable, personally. Like Ludo's cute, but he's not pretty. You know, it's a very, it's a difficult film.

And obviously like Sarah's a bitch for the majority of it. Absolutely. I thought you were talking about me there. No, no, no, no.

Sarah's introducing a character. I'll call you Pichy. I'll call you Pichy so we don't go through. Um, but yeah, and then obviously Bowie's weird because like, Jarif's like intentions are very strange in this.

Like, that's why it makes me think he's an allegory. He's basically, you know, he's not a consistent character. He's basically just saying things. I don't know if that's bad writing, but I think my favourite characters in it are all of the Terry Jones bits.

All of the bits referencing, you can tell that Monty Piphon, like Terry Jones's Monty Piphon, wrote the first version of this script because like, yeah, because all the, like my favourite things are just the randomness. Like the heads, the random hand heads, that's genius. Like you're saying the guy's hat weighs. It's like, oh, it's stimulating, didn't you?

And then what's my favourite one? The bit where, yeah, the worm obviously is a very Terry Jones. And then they, um, what's it called the, the rocks that are trying to warn her? And like, oh, go back.

And then it's just got the one where it's like, he's just like, He's a rrption. Yeah, he's got the one, like, no, he's like, shut up. He's like, oh, come on. You know, I've been wearing ages to say this.

And it's literally, it's the humour that I grew up with, where it's like, totally drops the character and it's just a rock in a Yorkshire accent being like, well, go on. You know, it's, that's the stuff that makes me like, and then the little brick, you know where the stones are getting turned around, which is writing the writing, writing the writing, the stones. And this is all, oh, he comes out and he like, Ah, I'm not going to be thinking I'm back. He's just saying, and then the goblins, the goblins in the city, it's got a goblin who is a target.

It literally, it's like, hang on, it's got a goblin who is a cannonball. And you're like, why does the goblin need to be in the cannonball? Yeah. And do it.

When it fires in the goniros, I just fired you and it's like, hopping around and it's like, yeah, we've got the other one where he fires it. He gets lodged in the wall and he's like, I think I get something. And it's just like, that's what I like about it. All the stuff I love is all of this stuff in the, just random mopets going around.

Just like, no, I'm so much to love about the characters, but the ones that stand out with the ones only get a little time, but they kind of stay in your memory. Like the bit in when Sarah's got tour with your arms and she's like, I wish. And then all the goblins are in the cupboard and they're going, has he said it yet? And it's going to take all the faces and stuff and like the big bulging eyes that just draw you out.

And like I said before, the trash woman at the end, she's like, oh, look at these, he's insane. Listen, you're like this, don't you? Or you remember this? It's like, like your Warhammer, don't you?

But it's a film that shouldn't work in ways because it is just batched, crazy. Well, I think in the fantasy realm, it takes so many right boxes and takes everything that you kind of want in the film. But I think as Sami said, it's either going to be like a marmite move. I don't know many people have to just think, oh, I like that.

I'll wash it. I really love it. Or it's not for them. So it's always been that middle ground type.

Yeah. I don't think it's a very narratively strong movie. That is my hot take I will do. I think it's a brilliant movie.

But when we talk about the story, I don't think the story's particularly good. It's a more kind of cool event falling through the cool events. You know, and if that was in an action film, you would criticize it. You know, I would criticize it.

But the fact is because there's so much going on and so much to see, I think it's like, since they're the fiery bit, the whole scene with the fiery bit narratively means nothing. It's literally just they just appear. And I, I, that's my least favorite scene, even though it's brilliant. But it's because the song, the fiery sing, like, chilly down is all about like getting used to apathy and in action and, you know, like laziness, like, you know, like they're effectively like stoners being like, oh, you don't even worry about your brother.

Just chill out kind of thing. And it's that kind of route that you could go down as a teenager rather than accepting your responsibilities. And that's, that could be far more apparent. It could literally just have a scene with dialogue between her and them where they, they're actively going, Hey, you don't need to find your brother, you know, slow down kind of thing.

But instead you just, they just appear. They do a crazy song. She runs away from them. And that's that.

Do you agree, Sarah? I mean, totally disagree. I can see what you mean. I can see what you mean.

Um, just, I find it hard to say like the, um, the lack of that in it. But I think that's just because of me having it on a pedestal. Yeah. Me personally, I think that scene is just kind of like hinting at some of the syringe and weird and wonderful creatures that she could have met and has probably met in the journey through it.

Cause I know like to make reference to it at the start with like the boob there being was the boss. It's like Jim, Jim Henson's version of the was the boss, if he got to like, like, remake it and just make it as weird and wonderful as it is. It's just like, instead of following the other big road, just going through the labyrinth and meeting all these different things that could, could appear. Um, sometimes to me, and I think being somebody's had this conversation as well, I like when things don't get over explained, I like to use me only imagination.

And to think of like, wise, like, again, going back and forth, I never saw that we'll talk about in the future like the Michael Myers aspect. I don't need to know why he kills people. I don't need to know why he's able. I like the few of them.

Zombie. Too much character explanation. Yeah, but that kind of aspect is always like, I look more scary for me and I'll enjoy it more that way. But we're like this.

It's kind of like, oh, Sarah's going on a journey and these creatures are just like, like, around like in the areas and just trying to, and the songs are just something that's like, like, I'll get, doesn't really need to be there, but they are fucking catchy as well. I have some, I have some, I have some playlist still. I do, I do. This here is one of my most prized possessions.

Yes, I've got the album. And it's a beautiful, um, it's a beautiful lavender disc as well. Oh, it's really one of my most prized possessions this thing. But it's so good to soundtrack.

Like, it's the fact of the instrumentals, like the actual score is so good. And it's all like Bowie and, oh, who's the other guy? It's like, it'll be on the back, won't it? Kevin Jones.

Yeah. Fuck. Oh, no. Kevin Jones did a lot of the music for it.

I don't think it's ever, I'm sorry. Yeah, but um, no, it's crazy. But it's like, I mean, my, one of my biggest complaints about the film is how good underground is and you barely hear it. You barely hear it.

Like a verse at the beginning and it just jumps straight into it. I'm like, no, play the whole song. You're going to go through the credits at the end to get lost to that. Yeah.

It's so good. Oh, wait, there's someone to start singing. Thank you, darling. That's something we went like you had, like.

But not to be fair. We've got an hour into it and it's the first time we've had someone sing yet. So it's, it leads me to the relevance of the Escher painting thing that they do. I mean, if it wasn't a fever dream, please, someone explain that to me.

No, I took this as meaning adulting, where the fact is it doesn't make sense. It's like in complex. Yeah, it's this idea of like, and if the whole point of it, though, it's not straightforward, there isn't an actual solution to it, but you still need to do it. You still need to progress.

And that's how I would describe adult life. It's like we have in Star Trek where you have the, oh, good. Well, they'll kill me for this, but it's the, it's a Japanese word, but it basically the, it means like the unwinnable scenario. Oh, I think it can come after my room.

Yeah. Yeah. Where they, but you have to accept you're not going to get out of this unscathed. And that's what I took the Escher painting to be where the only way she solves it is by taking a risk.

She jumps and it plays out, but it might not have. And that's adulting, you know? It's kind of like taking that lead them to the unknown. Yeah.

I still find that about adulting. I think if you don't take risks, you're not going to get anywhere. That's like, this is what I said to the students like on Thursday, when I was like giving my life advice, go back, actually my room. Yeah, no, thanks people.

Um, but I was giving life advice. I'm like, don't be afraid to fuck up because you're going to and it's not the end of the world. Every decision doesn't need to be right first time. Yeah.

And that's what she does. She has to make a leap of faith and it pays off, but it might not have done that's growing up. But that's just like everything like, say the same with this podcast. Like, I think we've done like over a hundred and something episodes.

And like, when, even Samuel say at the start, we were sketchy as fuck, when we did it. No, no, we're still sketchy as fuck, but at least we actually don't give as much of a fuck, but we actually enjoy it. Yeah, we don't give it. We don't give it now.

We don't give a shit. Can I ask a question? Because anyone else did anyone else just want to leave the brother there? Yeah.

Because that kid was an awful good boy. I'm not going to lie. Who was it? It was Jessica.

Like Jessica who's a regular on the monsters up north of you guys, as well as this. They were saying that like Toby the kid pissed on David Bowie at one point during filming. Because The three people did that. Yeah, because Billy Prowt who now works at Jim Henson said.

Oh, he's so sweet. Yeah, he, I think his dad was involved with Jim Henson at the time of making the movie. And that is why he ended up in the movie. But yes, he now he actually did a lot of work on the New Dark Crystal stuff as well.

My little sister was so obsessed with this film. She, David Bowie was her first crush. Right. And she was fascinated with his heterochromia because he's got two different eyes.

And so when it came to naming her kids, two of them sound like the part of the Italian mafia, but she's got a Toby as well. And he was named after Labyrinth. So you've got Ronnie and Frankie. And then you've got.

And then Toby. And then Toby. So I thought you were going to say she named one of them, Hetro and one of them. Probably.

Well, then. Well, then. Actually, I'm gay. Shut up, Hetro.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Romeo's kids. Dan said something quite interesting earlier as well. Because I know this has been talked like many times throughout the years. Like, leave a lawn regarding a re-meer, which I completely agree with.

I don't think this film needs to be re-meared. What do you think I did wonder if this film, because as you said, it didn't do well. If it did do well, do you think we would have got more Labyrinth movies after this just because of the work of the body and to build the world, to build the creatures that was part of it as well? Did they do sequel as much?