We're live. Hey everyone and welcome to the Nelly of North podcast. It is a Nelly podcast also by Northern Earth. Ah, yeah, Monique was that and I'm the horse pole and today we are joined by team Charlotte and Jake.
Uh, Jeff mean his long return after I think of his month in exile. Yes. I don't know why you did wrong but the pro the prodigal has returned. The prodigal has returned to you, Jake.
Unlike 100 years like Morpheus, uh, it has been, uh, next year. Oh, that is where it was. Yeah. I was going to say more.
It was more in the Twitch world rather than the actual dream world. So yes, Jake's been heading to our Twitch channel for the gaming and stuff, being held with Goodwill and Grant as well. So he has been a busy little beaver. He's not just getting back and relaxing on his laurels or anything like that.
Nope. Yes. And actually you might get a new little member in the team that sometimes Nelly and Charlotte's got a new little friend called Ruby with the beagle. So she might pop up to say hello from time to time.
Oh my God, I just thought it's a sunny con crew. Oh, yes. Yeah. Arguably the main characters at the time.
Okay. Oh, fun, damn factions now, always. With a pierce up. Who's going to do the heel turn first?
As is Charlotte. I've gone on Otis time. Wow, Charlotte, we have no notes. I know.
Wow. Yes. So we thought we'd do a special episode this week. No, we don't.
We haven't been a while since we've done a Friday night episode. Um, I remember when we first did the podcast, we used to be Friday night. God, I did, yeah. So, because we've just basically blasted through what was one of the most cinematic TV shows that I've seen.
I think that was the best way out in the everything. If you want to discuss anything from tonight's episode, please come and join us in the Facebook group and we can have an organization. What we want to have anyone coming for us in town, the opinions are wrong. We can agree to disagree and abandon.
So let's get a fun kind of key to the toxic behavior of notism. All this victory. But yes, so we are doing our best to keep the toxicity out of the fandom. We're doing this in the Facebook group as well.
So we haven't had any drama in quite a while. So it's quite fun. And we are possibly, we are growing like exponentially now. We are almost at 5,700 members.
So not another door for six. So come on, we'll get there. And I can say if we'll get 10, I don't know what will happen. Basically, we'll just explore.
And if you see my face glowing, if you're watching on YouTube, it's because I have the guide up. And also, like Sammy has the cookies out tonight, it's not done at this way. She's got the cleavage out for the five of us. But it was some obvious exactly.
Everything is from obvious. Oh my gosh. I've been out of people. I find out how to do the best I can with my very Halloweeny cardigan.
So yeah, so I always go to the embarassing. And unfortunately, Sam hasn't been out with a lovely mother. She's been out with the sisters. So just because she's watching, hi, Sam's mum.
Haven't heard from you in a while. She might actually listen to this one because my mum is a huge fan of the Sandman. She actually listens to the audio of it on holiday. So she could potentially listen to this one.
So my mum, sorry. I'm not. The bad boy. The bad boy podcasting.
No, wait, you don't want to be that. I've seen the documentary the most hated man on the internet. I really don't want to be that guy. I'm not even going to be that guy.
You're so much. So before we started, did anyone read the comics before seeing this? No, no, I did not. But I guess my mum listened to it on holiday and my gosh, how many times I had to tell her, my mum had not read this.
And she kept asking those questions. And I was like, my mum, I'm going to see it one more time. I've not read this. Oh, I know about it.
Now, I'm the same. I'm a bad Sandman fan. I've probably seen the Netflix series. No, I'm not.
So I am a fan of Neil Gaiman. But I think when the Sandman comics came out, it kind of passed me by a little bit. And all the artwork, the way the style is, like from my style, it probably wasn't to my initial taste when I was younger. After watching the show, I am going to go back and get my hands.
Even though we've looked in the store today, and it's literally impossible to take your hands on this. They've really kind of stuck this morning. I know. Yeah, it's actually not what Sandman's always been quite a difficult one because I'm a huge fan.
And I think I bought him it God years ago, and I bought it in German. All right. So I do have a copy of Sandman's supply, but it's in German. Oh, because you're like, oh, that's a decent price for it.
And it's like, that's why. Exactly. Exactly. I really wasn't paying attention to it.
But didn't this like come out in 1989? Because at least 94. 94. Yeah, because Sol did have a hand raised by Sir.
Oh, did you go? I'm so sorry. She was the one of us that actually done a homework before. And she read the comics beforehand.
And we know how much that basically shot at waxes all over the game. And so it was always obvious that she was going to pay attention. Yeah. She got me reading game and she's getting the mum reading game, because everything I read in the past, my mum's reading them more at the moment.
I read the comics when I was a teenager. So it's been a while. Yeah. Because everything I'm reading about are hearing from on fan sites or even Facebook blogs and stuff, asking how close and how, I think the right word.
The adoption of the short to the movie was so close and fearful. That's the word. That's the word. Sorry.
I've been out there so I'm not. You're so appreciative. So yeah, so fearful to the comics that it was quite striking and stunning to see. And I know Neil gave himself had a lot of seeing a lot to do with this show.
And I think with experiences in the past, he's kind of learned from his mistakes. Like letting people have control of these work. Like I know it wasn't original though, but when he doesn't swim in from Neverwhere, which was made for TV originally, it kind of went away from him and what he wanted to do. So I know he was upset about it and that's why he did the book.
And similar to like American Gods where I know he was heavily involved. But when you're watching American Gods, you kind of, there's aspects of gaming, but it's very much an American TV show and aspects of it. You can, with American Gods, you can tell when he left at the beginning of season two and then when he came back at the beginning of season three, because season two is where it went in a direction that wasn't his. And you know what, we actually stopped watching at the beginning of season two.
It just, something just wasn't sitting right. And it was like, yeah, I'm done with this like, I really am. Yeah. Yeah.
The only thing I was going to say as well, fuck Netflix for doing this today. He's so pissed off. We have been planning this since we finished watching it since it came out with it, right when you do it, and episode of this. After the first episode, it hooked you.
And what the fuck was doing? Release it, special episode. Dear, we do a fucking podcast. Well, none of us have got fucking time to watch it.
Well, I've only got some kind of like, let's start sort of cast as well. Oh, gosh. What was it doing? Shut up.
Oh, yeah. A bunch of it. That's awesome. A lot of it.
Well, the audio bug is actually narrated by James McBoy. So that's the link there. Well, it has like a star-studded cast in as well. But James McAvoy, I think he's more fierce.
And obviously it's his narration. But yeah, I did not know that. Well, what Paul was saying about the, there'd been a good adaption, like a faithful adaption and stuff. Like, I could definitely see the panels a lot of the time, which I enjoyed.
It wasn't like an annoying thing. Like, oh, this looks like a comic or this reads, sounds like a comic. Like, I really enjoyed that part because where I haven't read much like Neil Gaiman, like I have read a lot of like image comics and stuff, like, you know, like short stories, like, you know, just four-up-sub runs, like weird stuff. And like it felt, oh, Dougie.
It felt a lot like that where I could like, I could see this happening in a panel, like any of the dyno scenes, I was like, oh, this back and forth. Like, I love the feel of it. Yeah. Yeah, let's get into the episodes because I cannot wait to talk about that dyno episode.
No, it's done. So I've taken it to all fans of the show. Yeah, really enjoyed it. I think it's been the first TV show where and I hope I get the same from this, as I do with when we watch Wednesday, the trailer had us instantly.
Yes. They instantly had us. I knew I had a good feeling from this just based on the trailer. And it just, I felt that right all the way through.
And it's fantastic. I got excited as well when I saw her, the show run as well. Who will I? David Escoya.
Oh. Like, and he, like, well, he's done lots of different, like, say, comic book adaptations and always like, quite adult themes. I think, like, as I said, he had something to do with like the Batman's, that's so funny. Oh my gosh.
Wow, he's, okay. Yeah, that's a big film. Batman versus Superman, Dona just as Man of Steel. Ooh.
They tried to be invisible and awe and isn't the shield, but he's done a lot of video game writing as well. So you knew, so as I said, Neil Deven had, like, I think he hand picked most of the cast as well. And that's one of the top where we do get into the episodes, because I know we are actually going to be doing it. But did anyone notice that the cast of the show was pretty much like loads of people that have ever been in these numbers or coronations?
Yes. I did. Yes. When Constantine showed up, I was like, isn't he from Hollywood?
Say that kind of thing. She was in the first half of America as well. She was in the first half of America as well. Yeah.
And did anyone else lose their shit when they pronounced constant? Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Who? I don't know where I'm going to be spinning. He does that. Well, we'll have a conversation with that.
I think that's one of the things that they did change from, I don't know why they changed this, but again, we'll get to that. But yes, so the first episode, I was not expecting what we got, because what a trailer is what we were given. I thought it was under an enclosed action pact and the thing, but I didn't expect this episode to be so tightly woven and go so far, but nothing much happened, if that makes sense. We're told the whole story within the full episode.
Yeah. It was fantastically paced given that you had two lifetimes to look at. You had the father, you had the son, and you also had Morpheus. Back back in the middle.
It was just fantastically paced. Like Charles Don, I love seeing his name. He never plays a good guy. He's always a bastard.
So you knew what you were getting when you walked on the screen, but God does that demand an audience. He's just fantastic. I love him so much. I mean, he was excellent in Game of Thrones and when he went to the just super, Charles Don's fantastic.
And the guy who played Morpheus, the voice over starts first, and then he see him. And I'm not quite there. That is not him talking. And then he does it.
And I'm like, OK. I love the whole, like the presence, like, as you said, the whole build up, like the whole ritual and stuff. And then when you see the Sandman, like, because then we introduced to like what we are meant to believe as the main protagonist, as the Co-inclian, as a standoff, where we said, you've got to get out with the real world, like nightmares are meant to be here. But then you see him swing-haten and he's pulled into this, like, almost like the supernatural devil's trap, like, essence.
And you see the breakdown with the take the mask off him, take his coat off and read the crocons out and the take his ruby from him, and the take his bag of sand. And he looks so fragile. And he's like so meek and like brittle and I know he's not moving because he's trapped and like, this spell has been grown. And but this is such a powerful image as well.
Because that's what's the adamic state of me, like, my head throughout. This is so how innocent but vulnerable he looked as well for an all-incombing being as well as we trapped by man. And that introduction, that ritual when more of this gets sort of trapped, when you've read the conthrough, you can see the panels. It was like straight from page to screen.
It was so well done. But the Corinthians really surprised me because I'm not a matter of white old work around. I've seen him in a couple of things and thought he's a bit eh. But I think he was absolutely brilliant throughout the whole show.
It is reaffirmed by fear of teeth. Yes, we'll come to that and like say that. That's because there was choices made probably from the comic. I kind of laughed at in this in the show, but it was horrifying in aspects when you watch it back.
I mean, it's like, it's like, it's like a sandman outfit is kind of different from what I just saw from like, because he looks more like a weird fly creature in the comics. I think it's a lot bigger than me the hell that looks smaller. Yeah, but it still looks like, the biggest changes probably the hair. Like in the comics, he looks at him, he's got like, QR hair.
Whereas he's a lot more polished in the show because the comics, the time jump in the comics is set in 1989. So they've obviously moved out. So it was set in the 2021 or whatever. I think he's just probably, he's just watching.
Just like, clean the air. Yeah, he's wearing full on wearing clothes that was on a runway, not a few months back. Dreamed up by some fashion designer. But you're right about it.
Like that part was like awesome for like many reasons, like the whole track to like 400 years, everything. But like, I love that like every now and then it was shown like characters like trying to talk to him. And it's like, and he's not talking at all because like to him, that's like a totally like abstract concept, like a kidnap and type of thing. So he's like, just, and he's stubborn.
So he's like, I'm not going to stoop to like humans levels and have a conversation. I'm just going to be quiet until this flows over. It was awesome. I'm just going to push the city.
Take in the scenery. And actually one of the most heartbreaking, like passing it is when you don't expect it to happen. It's quickly because you see all the adversity, the trailer is like with the crawl. And when that crawl gets shot with the shotgun by the, by the, by the, the sun.
By the fail, son. Yeah. And you're just thinking you were just like, fuck. You asshole.
Glad he didn't fucking talk to you. As he said, with 100 years, I wasn't expecting 100 years to go through and from the shore and everything that they did in the first episode. To the point where like, what I think this show does brilliantly well is use a sexuality in a way where they don't try and throw it down your face or make it too obvious to try and make it normal. So the sun's like, like, says relationship with it, he falls in love with the man in the makeup, just like standing in a normal, they don't like push, like say the gender or anything as well.
It's just done so naturally. This is how it's meant to be. Like, it's not lost. It's not, you know, not meage completely obvious.
It's just completely natural. And they didn't have to make it like a whole like, oh, but this is going to cause like massive problems because it's, you know, not right. Yeah. Like, that's what the normally fall back on on these kind of stories.
But like, you're right about like everything, like a being well-paced because like, there was no wasted scenes in the entire like episode. No. Because like, you see, you know, every character that's going to be big, like in future episodes, like you get a flash of them at some point. Like in this one, pretty much all their mother, grandfather type of thing.
Like that sleeping woman who doesn't show back up until like, really? Yes. Yes, because it wasn't until I just heard mouth. I was like, oh my god, the term.
Yeah. That's what she called. I was like, you know what I say? She had such a unique name.
It was like, yeah. Even the cutscenes were like, you never felt bored because even the cutscenes were so beautiful. It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful.
It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful.
It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. It was stunning. The ballroom, what you casted as a ballroom scene where all the people are having like a party in the house and then costumes were just fantastic.
I was living for that scene. Well, it was definitely about like, you could tell there was money appeared on this show as well. And I think that's what Netflix is doing now with these big adaptations. I know it gets a lot of hate and like shit when it basically cancels the show and stuff.
But when it does truly get the background and thing, right, this could be something special. And I think when I said, when you read like the reviews and everything that it's got, and this has been something that's been in the works for many years. I know the talk. Many years.
And Joseph Gordon Levitt was actually in the talks with it in the mid 90s. And that never happened. No, that's the only thing I was going to say as well towards the end of the episode. The sons love that I think was called Paul.
I think it's always my name. Yes. Do you think he accidentally makes it wipe away? Or do you think he purposely did it to release an obvious?
What was your take on that? I think he's not on purpose. I think yeah, I'm purpose. So I think he did it as a way of, I don't know, I'm sorry.
I closure for his partner. Because he's part of never let go. And it was kind of like always living in his shadow because of what he was doing. He was dead with an arsehole.
Yeah, but he must have known that would kind of doom. I don't know. Or maybe it was just a kind of like, he thought it was kindness that was really that. Yeah, he had, you did have a supernatural beam living in his house for how many years?
So I just, I generally thought it was on purpose. No, definitely. I think it was kind of accidentally on purpose. I think you did it with all the right intentions.
Sort of, because I think he kind of looked shocked when he actually did it. So I think like you never actually thought he would have something sense. He would have something to do something like that you actually did it. Oh, I can't believe I've just done that moment.
Yeah. So I think it was more like he intended to, but didn't at the same time, like didn't think he'd have the courage to do it. And it was cool how like nobody noticed because it was like that obviously all got like complacent with this whole weird situation. The work that we're being as careful as the normally would have been.
Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't a great question that the transition of the guards, like the actual like the movement of the guards going to like who, what's his name? Roger, Roger, Burgess had to where we were in modern time and how lazy it had uniforms on the weren't dressed in suits and stuff like that.
They didn't give a shit. At the end of the episode as well, as when Mafia scores back to the dream went around and he's seen in front of the gates, that visual was just breathtaking. And like, and because I got all this through the episodes, it showed you what like what the world was like, what are you created. And when I'm Kate Soreman and you see what I'd become, you could feel the heartbreak from him as well.
Yeah. And like, say that's when we got introduced to Delucian as well, who I absolutely adored throughout this show, like, say she was a great character, like the librarian. The librarian? Oh, wasn't she?
She was she was Morpheus 2.0 because she didn't have his powers, which she just she had all the knowledge. She was pretty much running the show. But like in a more like cliche show, like she would have just betrayed them at some point and it would have been like a dumb thing, but it actually gave them time to work out the relationship, like over the entire thing. She was his growth, because without her he wouldn't be the Morpheus at the end of the show.
He would have just gone back and done everything the same. Yeah. So she was his sort of windowing to be coming about her person. I want to touch on something Jake just said before and I think it's a very quite insightful little comment.
This show didn't do anything that was obvious. I wanted me to think that it was obvious things that were coming, because as you said with Delucian, you thought there was one of the ever-trail. You thought certain characters would want to act a certain way and do certain things. And that was the kind of running theme, actually, for the show.
When the house, when they're running the show, they're in the season, and everyone in the house is acting really weird and overly nice. You expect a turn? Yeah. And a turn doesn't ever come.
No. It kind of like keeps you on the expectations thing. As you said, a more obvious writing or lazy writing, shall we see it? Would have given us these things and I would have thought, oh, Bill, this will be entertaining.
This is what they expect. The fact that we were expecting it didn't happen was more entertaining, was more enjoyable for me. Yeah. But it felt right, though.
Whatever weird thing happened or unexpected, it felt right within the world that was being created. I think that's why it took me a little while to get into it, but just to kind of learn how it was going. But then as soon as I got past a certain point, I was just hooked and couldn't wait to see anything else. That's going to be right.
No, that's the thing. Now we are in Neil Gaiman's world and we're fucked because we're need. Yeah, absolutely. And do you know what?
They just give us more to do. Hour and a half small. No. They're thickets.
Yes. So moving on to the second episode. I absolutely get all this episodes so much. I cried my eyes out.
I fell in love with Keynan and Abel as actually, he never saw. I also love this episode so much. So yeah, Keynan and Abel. And Gregory the car guy.
Oh, Gregory. This one reminds us quite a lot of aspects of almost like a, was it was it Hamlet with the witches? Yeah, because I was thinking more Hercules to be fair. And because they're in Hercules.
Hercules, Hercules. That was a lot of Sabrina vibes of it, especially with the killing of the brother and burying him in the plot. And then seeing all the other burials, because he murders every day and it just gives me Zelda like feels. It was nice when he was saying, oh thanks for not burying his two day.
This was this kind of brother and stuff like that. That like, I brought you up, but you can see, I was here and that was slowly starting to get more and more like angry towards Morpheus because of like I said, the reason why because we lost Gregory the gargoyle. Who was one of the sweetest CGI things and like, beautiful. I'm like, give us like this five minute thing and say, oh right, we're gonna take the way now.
It's like, I put the meat as the meat as Karen. Yes. And then you have him flying across that roof and being stumbling and everything and I'm like, oh you're a sauchen and then you're gone. You're gone.
But the social. The guest stars in this one were quite surprising. Because it was, I've never pronounced his name. Pascal was one of the brothers.
I'll tell you. And Nina, you know, Waddio was one of the, the mothers, the she was a new senders. Yeah, so the guest stars are quite. And it's predominantly British.
Yes. Pro-dominantly British. I think there was one American I could of the Chogmy head. Oh, shall I?
I can't not see the onions. I think the guy who, I think the guy who wasn't the cast. The guy who want the house like in the sort of end part of the future is American actor. So he's been in other comedy stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. No, because I said the other guy who played on the brothers was the only way I know him from his from Taskmaster. He was one of the comedians on Taskmaster.
And he was absolutely shaded as well. So when saying I'm called from Taskmaster to this, like say, it is quite like a massive jump. I think he was in, I think he was in sort of never mind the books got quite clearly as well. So yeah, he's a comedian.
The other guy is a genuine actor and I'm really sorry, Sanjeev Baskar. Yeah, he was in Goodness Gracious Me. The Kumar's at number 42. Well, the greatest, one of the greatest comedy setchers of the Indian Family going for English was it still to the Hill area.
So me, I thought was brilliant. I really, I find you seem very funny and he was incredible. The two of them bouncing off each other. This is the episode which I thought was setting up for the full season.
Like I said, I thought like to say what was that enough for? We want to get the journey of Morpheus looking the three things that you had stolen from him. And I thought that was going to be the lead up to the full 10 episodes. And we got a surprise when we got half it through that it was only kind of like half the story, which again, with the writing of the show, you could have probably stretched it out or and done it that way.
I'm glad that they gave us like different aspects and they didn't make Morpheus mission the show in mid-bassy, Morpheus's transition from endless guard to have a little bit of a human interim and seeing that aspect and seeing that grow. And that was that's what again, it's them kind of like ints and how it was playing with our emotions. And as I said, the three witches saying was done absolutely amazingly and how makes it like give them a gift and give them information. And just how we frustrated it was to watch it because it was told the rules.
Yes. And at the end of each question, he still kept on asking because well, that's what made them a little bit more human as well because I would do that because I would do that because I would if someone said I was going, I would not know more shit. But at least they kind of like tore them off as well. So it's quite interesting.
I think it's quite a common thing in mythology though for it to be like to like trick the fates as well. So I don't know if they're playing on that. Well, like if you could possibly annoy them into telling you something, you know, like extra. So you could have been going for like that kind of tactic.
But yeah, like the cutting and the editing on that was nuts as well. Like how all like change in faces in each other. Charlotte, where's your dog? Yeah.
Charlotte, look behind you. Yeah, I know. That's okay. That's another dog cast.
I'm like, look at that and I couldn't see that. Just find a field. Oh, you went going a little low. Yes.
So Jake, we made a very good point. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I just seen his dog in the background and did you a Charlotte new or and then something dropped.
I can't remember what I was saying now. You were talking back from the fear since you know, like it's been commenting and how to try. Yes. And how it was edited very well with them like split in the sentences between them all.
Like it was confusing. I listen to you. I can understand why I'm more fuses confused at the end of his answer. No, definitely.
He's a talking riddles. For me, more of you is trying to get more information out of him. Kind of, it kind of played in his character, the abrogant about when he first emerged. It was almost like, well, I know you've told us the rules, but I'm an endless.
I can probably get away with that any a bit more. Yeah. But it just shows like even the endless, like say you have to be in certain rules and as he said, when we go through like the other episodes, you can find the do like quite follow protocol. I think he puts it at the words he does protocols to follow and stuff.
And it was just like saying, and then like so interesting to say, because he's trying to get his powers back. And he is like, say a god that's on not even half power. And he said, you can see there's panicking him and he tries to make it rebuild the dream. The dream world, like with him being so weak and he's same as claps and trees and everything kind of falling apart again around him.
And Lucy can tell them how all the dreams and nightmares and everything had left because there's no one to follow. And he's like, did they not do things so little of me? And it's like, no, it's kind of like he was a little bit of self-servant and he's like feeling sorry for himself, which I think in the episodes to call me does get a good kick up the answer times. Especially when death comes involved.
And like I said, that's such a poignant and beautiful aspect. But it was the first time we got like the list of names, like, you know, like Fiddler's Green and like Galt and stuff like that. And like, I believe so. Don't know this episode was it?
Oh, fuck, I've asked. Was it not? Was it not when Lucy Anderson and who left? Yeah.
And was asking one of those. But it was cool to have that like hanging over the entire series. Like, okay, there's like, there's mysteries that need to be solved here. And they eventually did.
Not the way that we thought though as well. That's why I agree with that. But yes, like I said, everything that leads up to this episode and like they're the hinting to come. And I know we talked about a little bit of like, when we said, constant, constant teen.
So I believe this wasn't like one of the big changes in the comic when, because I know there was supposed to be like, do you want constant things, do you appear in the comic? Yes. And she is like, in the right place. Like, see, a few episodes down.
Yes. I think it was episode seven. Is it? I think so.
Yeah. I think so. And we were going to go John. Yes.
Oh, so it was supposed to be modern did John. Yes. Right. Okay.
But we didn't. We got another version of Joanna. So why did they do it actually? I generally don't know.
But it really upset a lot of people because John's made like such an impact in pop culture over the last few years with Matt Ryan, patrana. And it made people interested. And obviously it's John getting cancelled. It was outreach.
I was part of that outrage. And it was, it's become quite special to people that for now, for them to say, well, yeah, we know there's a Joanna Constantine. I'm going to say it right. In this program, like within the series, because she was these ancestors, isn't she?
Yeah. Because what he says, I have met many constant teams before you. She was the one who we met. I don't want to understand the change.
I wasn't upset by it. I'd like to say it didn't upset us. No, God, no. No.
I think it's working played out well because Constantine, the character itself is quite a fluid character when it comes to the comic. Especially with a lot of things like the sexuality and how he plays and works. But it was just interesting to say in that side. But again, the way they played it, it wasn't as heartless as Constantine should have been, if that makes sense, because Constantine is a bastard.
He's a dick. But he's a best dick. But they even given these own stories. They're given Newcastle.
I think I sent Charlotte a text when it's in the sort of Astrodin. I was like, fucking hell. I was not upset to say that element. That's like, I said, the basis of hell, but the basis of hell, the basis of speciality.
Hell, the basis is one of my favourite graphic books. I love it. When the Sandler rates were first, all the while ago, there was talk of getting Matt Ryan back to be Constantine and to get Tom Ellis to be Lucifer and Crossmore Love, obviously Lucifer, the Lucifer network series is Lucifer from Zadvan. And the fuck up is it?
Yeah, it's Lucifer Morningstone. Sorry. And obviously they're all DC. So I think I'm sure I might be wrong.
What I'm trying to think in behind. I'm constantly watching this. No, don't do it. No, no, no.
What's the first season that's stopped? LAUGHTER If yeah, the thinking behind it, behind re-cass me, except that in re-cass me, Constantine was so that it was a separate thing and it wasn't going to be connected to the other shows. Oh, no, I'm all full of that. I don't mind not using the same act as...
Yeah, yeah. Just the aspect of changing it to Joanna, rather than John. Because John, as I said, Joanna is like the old style, like that character is like, I found off it if they wanted to just make him it as a fluid, like a gender swap, like, great. But that would be fine.
But why use the same character than the same in the same era? And what was it wrong? Yeah, well, that was a good thing. I guess how you were saying like John's like a callous bastard.
Like, that was like, she kind of was in the like however many years before, like a few hundred years before. So maybe they wanted to show like a generational growth, like when he met at the first time it changed the course of like the family sort of thing. But yeah, like I think it's absolutely fine to re-casten. Because I think like fans like cling on like certain actors way too much when it doesn't.
Yeah. I'm all full of that. Like I said, I didn't have a problem with others. It was just an old choice because you could have had like Joanna and John in the same thing.
I guess to me not knowing anything about the outside like politics about it felt totally normal. Yeah, I didn't know what the issue was because again, I've not read the book and my mum banged on about Joanna Constantine constantly on holiday. And I was like, I don't know her, but I know what John. So I had like, it's literally like, like, extreme John.
There's no cigarette. It's in there by the people just talking about the Constantine's or concert. I keep thinking I'm saying that he didn't wrong because they were saying that he didn't wrong. And they didn't give her a scale tax and either so.
No, they didn't wrong. They didn't know. But I didn't understand the issue with the swap because I just thought she's in it. Like, what's the big deal?
And it wasn't until Anne's red up and it was meant to be John. I was like, oh, that should have actually, I don't really like that. Just because I'm a huge, I love this. I was like, oh, I was like, oh, that's what she did.
Good. Because I think with me, the only thing I was like, oh, this was the used all aspects of John. Like from history. I had the courts.
Yeah. And I was kind of like, maybe, I'll get an example of the wall grant here. Maybe multiverse, different universe, different versions. Possibly could get away with that.
I'm just going to wait for Keanu Reeves to come back. I would say no. I'm going to sign that deal. I'll send it back to you.
I'll send it back to you. I was happy with that. But I think this episode as well, I know we've had hints previously, like the two of our little teasers of how this show will break our hearts, like the crew, like the gargoyle. This one, we knew we're in for like a heartbreaker as soon as we get to the point where Morpheus is tracked down.
Do you want to try and get you sand back? It's the first of his three tellings that he wants to back and you find out where what happened to the sand and where it was left. And that whole story and that played out was beautifully told again. We're going to use this like so many times, like the time and as well of doing this was done so well.
And that whole relationship to spelt so naturally and fluid. And when you find out that it's kind of like a mirage, it's like the sand putting up this mirage to hide away what it's really doing to this person. And when you go to and see her in that bed and she's looking so emasculated and just broken down, like there was no way she could come back. No.
As a matter of fact. No. No. It totally gave me seven vibes all night.
The show was happy though. That was the kind of the worst part. It was. Because like she had noticed anything that happened to our real body.
So like, yeah, that was awesome. Like I love that kind of like magical mundanity where it's like, oh, I left this bag somewhere. And then something really messed up. Happens because I left a magical item in a normal place.
Like, yeah, I loved everything about that. And again, the made us care in like 10 minutes. I don't care very much. That's just brilliant writing because every single person in here had generally given shit about one person was not invested in.
No. It's just perfect writing. And that's a word I will throw about a lot to do. A lot to do.
But I say, oh, yeah. I was just the episode that we didn't use to Matthew the Raven or was it the episode before? I don't know. It was shit myself when I heard Pat and Oswald come out.
I think I've seen that in the trailer. Wasn't that in the trailer? Yeah. I hadn't seen Pat and Oswald was going to be that Raven.
And then he's talking about the cos of fucking Ace. I think it's just a speed dial. But like, OK, we need a voice over for a CGI character. As it was, we'll just get him.
It was though, I was pretty sure he was knocking on the window at some point in that scene. Yeah. Or something. Because he was talking about after, sorry, the second episode was when he was standing, he was going to go back in the real world.
And Lucian said, oh, we'll take a Raven. He's got no more Raven's because of what happened to the name of the Raven now. But yeah. And then Matthew coming on and like, it's kind of like, for son, and this episode, he says an argument with Matthew saying, look, just go away.
I don't need you. And he's like, well, the boss is going to go out and the boss is going to get out of the solution to Thomas. And he sends Matthew, we had to kind of spy on Joanna. And that's like, he said, the time on the window and all the aspects.
But I think it was the perfect touch because this was, as I said, a very dark show. And it needed a little bit of comedy and a little bit of light. And I think Pat and Oswald's personality and how, it's like the Alan Tudic effect. He's like, is he going to be anything?
And you can believe him as a fucking annoying Raven. Absolutely. So in this episode, we just, oh, I did it with the one before, no, this episode, we discovered that he's Ruby's with Ethel Sun, who is the son of the man who captured Morpheus, his Sanders with Constantine. And his helmet is in hell.
It's all sort of a demon. It's all sort of a demon. That's it. And that's what, and that's, this is the mission point at the moment.
Yeah, because she was given an amulet for, that's nothing could hurt her. Nothing could kill her. Like the protection. Yeah, she's treated her.
She traded the helmet. Was it a helmet? It's a helmet. It was called the helm.
Helm, helm. She traded the helm for the necklace to protect her. But the Ruby was keeping her as young as watch, because she was, she was watch in her twenties in the twenties. I think the said, like when the Gwen would get introduced to again, that's as well over a hundred.
But I think one of the key things I actually thought was quite nice, like, because I said Morpheus is quite a straight character, but it gives glimmers of like, I'll use the word because when he is at there, I hope for a lot of people. Because even though Joanna and him didn't get on, he took away a nightmare. At the end of that episode, he says that thing that worries you every night, if you weren't doing that anymore. And I thought that was just like, he didn't need this.
I would have forgotten about that aspect and it wouldn't have had any less of a meaning. But the fact that he did that just showed that, like, as I said, Morpheus hates you and at the other point for working for the Didrum, it was like slowly turning the dial back to giving him a bit of it. Yeah, like he starts out like, oh, you know, you're one of the good ones. You can have it present.
But then literally later on, he becomes like, oh, I appreciate like this whole race or whatever you would call it, like creation by the gods. It was showing empathy, which is very human, which is a lot of it. I don't know if you're character. But it was still sort of like selfish.
It was like, oh, you get a present because you helped me type of thing. Yeah, it's like a backhanded empathy. Yeah, because you didn't ask, like, to like not have wanted to forget. But I guess that's a part of it as well.
He sort of assumes that, you know, it's best about everything. And we find out quite a lot with him, especially, he calls it his responsibility, but it's more to do with like his own self worth or have. It's his own ego. Exactly.
And we've all got that up time. We do. So at the end of season, at the end of season two, is when he actually returns the fever of this sacrifice that can be able to give him by giving him clarity. He returned it with their own new baby, go go y'all.
So all is good in the world. And then the man is to have a fight over the name and have a kill. Yeah, but the man was telling us that he calls him every day in spectacular fashion. And the other because maybe ma'am had a totally in depth conversation about them.
And she was seeing the other brother and you saw it in the show as well, where he sits and then he's explaining to the gargoyle, like, I have to do this. This is my purpose. This is this is what I do for my brother because otherwise, you know, God knows what would happen. Like you understood these plays and it was beautiful to watch it.
But the third episode is where we have the Constantine episode and the pouch. I thought so. And then the end's like, oh, we've got to go to hell type of thing. Yeah.
When I was saying, when I was saying, when I was saying, when I was saying, I was like, oh, what a negative trip to hell. Yeah. I was sort of a forward to seeing this episode. I just want more Gwendolyn Christie in my life.
Oh, she's the same. All right. Jason, she. Now this.
Any good bit. Yeah. I love actually, I love the show. Like I was all in from watching the first few episodes.
Like, but this episode was the sale. This episode was where I watched and I thought, this is not just a good show. This is something a bit different. It's something a bit more magical.
And it's actually, this could have been so bad and so cheesy with all the different portrayals and different versions. Because I know most of us are fans of supernatural. We've watched supernatural for 15 years. We've seen them boys going to hell.
And the portrait of hell, Algun has always been piss-filler. It's always just like, it looks like a shitty warehouse or something. This is a hero at one point. Yeah.
It's a hero. Um, so we went with a race in the wall or anything like that. It was never really given like darkness or like pure, like, somewhere where you wouldn't want to be. And this episode when, like, you've got Morpheus walking up to the gate.
And he's telling Matthew all about the situation, all about the weirds that you have to do this. I'm not an invited guest. He says, so he has to do everything proper. And you see him, like, what was the drum to knock on the door?
And you see the handle moving. You realize the walls built by dam soles and people that's been embedded in that wall. And they're not just like normal people, they're like, they're like, disfigured, like horrific. It's a jarring image just to see, like, initially, and you see Morpheus is not fizzed by it, but you can tell he's not comfortable.
That's the way I get from Morpheus in this start, is he's not comfortable doing this and going this route. You can tell he's not comfortable, but you can also tell he's not surprised because he's seen it before. Yeah, he's not scared either. Yeah, no, there's no fear in him.