This meeting is being recorded. Oh, that's you. No, that is you. All right.
Here we go. We're live. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Nodie of North podcast. It's a Nodie podcast hosted by Northern Earth.
I am on your host, Sam. And I'm the host, Paul. And we are joined by two of our team, podcast, Grant, who everyone is very familiar with. And we have a returning character in Makiella.
It's been a while. It's not been since the Disney episode. Is that correct? Oh, yeah.
Yes. Not much specialty part in Indian Fialalas. Well, I've probably got a lot of goes hand in hand these days with them, that aspect. But yes.
So this is part of the Spooky season and we're in Fillfall for all of that now since we've done the free debacle that was last week. It was and YouTube kind of gave us a Nodie took down and that was come back up, which was confusing as hell. But yes. So we are going to do this episode all about cereal cupboards.
So this is going to take a different beat to our normal episodes where we talk about fun, things we like and things we enjoy. I don't think this is going to go down the same route, but I think it'll be like an interesting topic to get into. So let's do a little bit. We're actually very excited for each week.
Oh, we're here for this one. Don't look too scared. I do like you sat on the little picture behind you though. And just a quick one just quickly before we get into the nitty gritty of this week's episode.
How are you doing? I'm doing. I'm doing. I'm doing.
How are you doing? I'm all right. What do you mean? What do you mean watching this week?
I was talking to yesterday and I thought it was absolutely incredible. I thought it hit every dis-aljuricated shirt. I thought it was quite still an original film. It was fun.
It made a smile. I loved it. And I got it right in the mood for all of them. Because I am not a fan of this kind of year.
Why not? Because I don't like horror film. Really. I hate the dark nights.
I'm very depressed. So I'm trying to embrace it. Kind of nice. Like witches, which I do like.
I'm not a fan of the witches and everything. I did watch Focus Focus 2. And as I said, I did enjoy it. But I hadn't made a decision last night to Instagram.
It needed more talking cats. I'm sorry. It felt like it was like. We are very obvious to me of you.
Someone who was born in the summer and loves the winter. And the other one, born in the winter and loves the summer. We are very strange. Well, you're great.
Have you watched anything interesting? The one I was looking forward to the most this week was the new Halloween film. Oh, and? It's failed.
Definitely. It's a film. It's a film. It's a film.
Yeah. That is what I said. I could give a little review so to speak. It would need spoilers.
Sorry. It's a little bit of gore and a little bit of cerebral horror. We do well by it. But it's very different.
We know and love and very different. What we know and hate from a lot of sequels. I'm not a dick on face value. I've got a massive crush on Pinhead now.
Right. With an old, maybe the female version or an untroned version. I'm not going to be the best. I'm not going to.
Either way, you're not going to. I am next year. I think what I've watched. I've always something that we're going to talk about in a few weeks when it comes to the werewolves episodes, werewolf by night, which was easily one of Marvel's best things they have produced and did for a long, long time.
It was entertaining. It was probably an old school. If the thought that Dr. Strange multitude of crapness was the bestie that Marvel's first horror film.
The first one was the first adventure in the horror and did it brilliantly. I am going to watch it. Everything that exciting, I watch this week was She Hook. She Hook.
Oh my god, that was amazing. We have Matt being all dark and brilliant. We have been quite charming. I'm looking like he was enjoying life once.
It was so lovely. It was nice to see. The suit was just, I loved it. I thought they were going to go full yellow suit.
It didn't. It was really nicely matched. I thought he felt more comic style Matt and I loved seeing that. I've had a few people message on Instagram saying that they felt that they lost what they built from the Netflix one.
All I could say is that I couldn't give a shit. It was fun. That's what I thought about the moment. In that type of comic, in that type of entertainment, it's just like they're going on shagging all the superheroes, which can go on.
Go off and go for it Matt. Exactly. I'm just going on. Oh my killer, she's so good.
I think you would actually like it. I think it was. It's cool. It's funny.
It's not the boss and stuff on your sister. I've stopped doing that a long time ago. And his grand is trying to forgive himself now. I'm trying not and I'm just waiting my turn.
Yeah, he's buying his tag. I mean, I was going to fuck up somewhere. I always do when grants on. It can't be helped.
Right. I'm going to get into the nitty gritty of this. I'm going to do the disclaimer. That was famously said on the BBC.
Oh, that's what I said to me, Mummy. And I was like, and then we disclaim it on the BBC. I was going to be mentioned now that it was on the BBC. Mummy, let's just get you gripped to that pet.
Right. So everything discussed in tonight's episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you would like to discuss anything from tonight's episode, please come and join us in the Facebook where we have an open discussion. What we want to have is anyone coming in for us and tell us our opinions are wrong.
We can all agree to disagree in fandom. So let's give it fun. Give it kind and keep the toxic behavior out of notism. Yes.
Well said. Very well said. I think that's an important message to have, especially in these days with a lot of negative and quite different opinions. A lot of media now is coming out and there's a lot of dicks online and it's just getting out of it.
But yes, the putt clearly, people can get fucked. But yes, this episode is going to be a bit different to our normal, as we said. Normally we do talk about things we love, things we actually enjoy and what we normally talk about as top 5s and stuff. I don't think that's really fitting with the subject matter for this episode with the class of Save Your Colors.
We're not going to talk about our favorite series of colors. That's just too about T.S. and I would never bring ourselves to do that. I think what we did find interesting, what we want to discuss was kind of like the Save Your Color Boom that's kind of gone on.
That's kind of hit right now and how we feel about it and why do we think that it's happening the way it has and save people's thoughts on it. And if they've got any reasons why they're engaged with it as well as anything that they've enjoyed, that's the kind of discussion we were hoping to have. So we won't be doing an exit in the normal Jovial exit. This is why we love this.
This is why we love this. I don't think that would be quite right and wouldn't be very respectful for a lot of reasons. But I am interested in the subject. I am interested in the topic and I think you can get a lot of different opinions.
A lot of people don't even have to agree. I don't think all four of us agree on much on these types of subjects as well. But I think it's a conversation that needs to be had at different times. And I think it's important that people still have any type of discussions.
Because if you don't, nothing really gets learned and nothing really changes. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think the rise now, not so much. When we did the last one, documentary is like the boom in serial killer documentaries was kind of dwindling down a bit.
And now it seems to be that the boom in serial killer programs is coming out. Like life stories on programs, especially with the domino one that's just come out. And I think that now talk that there's another one that there's been talks about. And I can't think of the top of my hand what it was, but it's just how far is too far.
It's one of its that's the point that I think we're getting to right now. There's a lot. I think everyone's always going to be have that type of intro. I think we're talking about this during the true crime episode.
It's all about the car. It's all about like the dark and CD. Everyone wants to know to get to the bottom of why people do these things or and stuff like that. It's it's never going to be something that we're ever going to know truly to the to the realms of because we're like, hopefully we're not psychotic or we're not like going to go out and start butchering people to it.
But like say we are drawn to like that kind of dark element and people, but there's always getting a kind of an interest in as much as people like it can be bad. There's some very good ones as well that I do. I wear shows mistakes or like from the perspective of the victims families or from how the police officers handle the case and like what mistakes we did. Then I do find more in the town and then just the glorified like the one that came out not too long ago.
What was it the 10-body one with him out of music? Oh my gosh. Which was just kind of uncomfortable and I say, but filming and reality always do go hand in hand at times. Like there's elements in horror films that do take big strides from a lot of horror films.
Like if we didn't have like the ed game case, we wouldn't have like the Texas Chainsaw mask and science of the lambs and stuff like that. That were inspired by the elements. So again, I can see why people like can go to it, but like say the Jeffrey Dallman one that you've just mentioned, I think that's the more more relevant that people like now have seen because they were only came out in ethics work two weeks ago. Yeah, something like that.
I don't know. I go and watch it. Make that thing on. Nope.
Grant, have you watched it? I've watched it in bits and bobs, may I be reading about the time? Okay, so I think there wasn't really anything on there. I was going to say that I didn't already know them tried, but just keep kind of flittin' in and out of episodes and being able to pick it up.
No one what's going on. You know what I mean? Yeah, because it's a story that's been told a million times before there is at least five films that is out there. That is all about Jeffrey Dallman.
Jeremy Renner played Jeffrey Dallman. It's been done so many times and now it's getting the point where Ryan Murphy's getting his hands on him. Generally, I thought Ryan Murphy would have changed it and flipped it and made it out there. I generally thought that's what Murphy does.
He takes stories and flips them and sensationalizes them and a pinch nut word from Charlotte who just says in the chat because I totally agree with that. He completely sensationalizes things in history to make them look nice and shiny and bright and oh, look at. I've totally had a u-turn on how I feel about that man. I did.
It's one of them shows that I've watched and I watched it all the way through. I can't say I enjoyed it. I watched it just out of curiosity and I'd say that Evan Patres' performance which again we shouldn't really get excited for because that's the problem is. We're getting these big actors or these actors playing these monsters and portraying them with saying, oh, he didn't do well.
It was the same with David Tennant. Do you want to uptown his performance? As good as performance is, but how true and how accurate do we need it to be or do we want it to be as well? Can I just stop you there?
I think my sister has frozen because she has not moved in a few seconds and she has now gone. I was like, her face does not permanently look like that. Not the whole dishwasher. It's just like that.
See what happens. Because I was waiting for Mikilah to pipe up about Murphy because I know what she feels about writing Murphy and I was waiting for it and I was like, what's gone? Oh, yes. We're still safe.
She joins us again. But the one with, like I said, the Jeffrey Dama one because we've watched, I mean, my wife Nicole, we watched the Jeffrey Dama tips. It was on the crime show, not an ongoing. Like the actual interviews with the actors and everything was, as I said, portrayed accurate.
The only things that I kind of, like I said, that we did were need was like the conversations he was had with these victims. We never know what was actually said in them circumstances. They had to be just dramatizing, brought up and that mustn't be nice for not just us, but imagine what the victims families must be going through. Because they're not going to get in fear for that.
They won't be making anything from that. So they're just going to be watching and reliving based on what they went through. That's something that is quite recent as well. I think a lot of people do forget that when it comes to these type of big, big shows and stuff on the advertising.
So if that people have to relive and go through these aspects. So that's always like, they always on the back of my mind or things I do over think about. And it's always quite, because I think the victims as well do get forgotten about quite a lot when it comes to these type of. Yeah, and elements, but the one that like, again, they're kind of flitted and changed things around was when they've done the Yorkshire River one on.
And was it ITV or BBC? BBC. And I know it's on our way back and I know she will have some opinions on this because I think that was the turn and point for Michaela when I came down to these programs. And you are right.
I think people do forget that these families are still alive today. They have to sit at especially the courtroom scenes. You know, you can go and look at them on YouTube. They are there for you to watch and to know that they are there is bad enough.
But then having an actress come on and reliving that moment of pain and suffering when they are doing them victim statements is horrendous. And I think that's where I kind of drew the line and went, I don't think I can watch this. I generally don't think I can watch these. I love a documentary.
I think documentaries are informative. The criminal mind is definitely something that is fascinating. But why do we have to see it like play it out? But then again, I liked, oh my gosh, what was it called?
Boy, big boy in blue. Boy blue. Who about hi there? Is she back?
I don't know if I've got a volume back. Hi. Hi. You look a lot more clearer.
Sorry. I'm not making any more merry-he-go-go jokes. Sorry. We're going to be so sensitive.
Well, not talking about your darmel glasses, not talking. Yeah, I think an organ has been perpetually sitting through by a little monologue there. What's your viewpoint on how do you view these aspects there? It's always definitely comes to dramatization as a way of drawing the line between the true events and artistic kind of freedom.
Like, create a freedom with it to be able to go and add the little bits for the sake of drama. It often happens when we take anything and put it on film regardless of whether it's true events or book adaptations or whatever it might be. There's always going to be something that gets kind of chucked in there by the right just because they think it might sound a little bit more engaging. The serial killer medium that's kind of does well sometimes.
I think being reread through a spectrum is from a cinematic perspective. I enjoyed the Bundi movie that came out. It was about 10 years ago now. But from actually breaking it down against the story of what Ted Bundy did, I thought it was absolutely appalling because they changed so much about what Bundi had done and the dynamics of these victims and the circumstances with which these things happened.
And to the point where it was only Bundi in the name of the main character. And from what you were saying about the disrespect towards the victims and that kind of stuff, those things really are a good punch to anybody that was involved in still alive. It depends on the right or it depends on the right or it depends on everything that they've done in both ends of that spectrum quite badly or good. Well, whatever.
I totally get it. It's always like an interesting view because you always want to get the two sides of the coin where people say that you shouldn't forget what happened, which again, I totally do see that point. It's when the profiteering and making things out for entertainment purposes that it can make the border on. When you hear about the documentaries and stuff and as I said, the BBC went about the orchestra when it went on about the police investigation and how the completely fucked up and was treating like because they're not going to repopulate personally because these women didn't matter because they saw them as prostitutes and there were less of names.
And Sean, the absolute fuck time. I'm sorry, I'm going to lose me Shady. How the police operated and tried these women. It'd been infuriated and then the lessons that should never be forgotten and should never we should always take away from.
I would have probably been caught a lot sooner if they'd just done the fucking jobs properly and not think like these women as less events. Yeah, but the scary thing is still happens today. It still goes on to do why the police just car where killer targets a set of group like you got gears, blacks, prostitutes, if they're targeted and then the police will generally just leave them alone and they can get away with it. Done but did exactly the same thing.
I absolutely adored the BBC Yorkshire River document, right? The killer was told us to watch it and I was so infuriated by it. It wasn't just the fact that we were portraying the women that were forgetting that these women were fucking struggling. They weren't doing the weren't being prostitutes for the sake of it.
There was a reason behind. They were on their arse. There was no help out there for them and they needed a feed of fucking family. I hated how that came across and I'm a killer.
I don't know what we're killing. This is why I hate you. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. This is my biggest issue with the whole issue of it is how the women are portrayed. Yes, I know it's not always women, especially with the Dharma. And within it, they needed to survive the work prostitutes.
No. No, no, no, no. There's like a way to have a background on your, like the break from the kids. That would just not.
That's the issue, isn't it? Because as much as you can say, well, it's a drama time vision, you can pick your best bits and that. Then that is always known. The women who do it the culture with the kilts, the prostitutes, the women who jack the rent the kilts, the prostitutes, very doubtful.
That's the word. And these women actually had stories and families and backgrounds and they are just literally put there to be a victim and that's it. Nothing more, nothing else. And you know, the Ted Bundy thing.
The reason I have an issue with them doing their, tell my story over and over again is like, not that these women were better than anybody, but they were going to college and we're going to change the world and we're going to be, they're going to have families that were going to have these incredible lives and you just took away like that and no one could be like, well, what's the answer? No, it wasn't. And a big thing I hear is like, oh, you know, when I tell them that you've got stories of this, you never have that from Chugging the Corpse, yeah, because you did do that. You know, you're picking trees when there's going to be the nitty gritty of it.
And it's like, why don't you tell the real story? Because what you did was absolutely disgusting, but you want to pick the second bit. So, yeah, to make it sound, it drives us insane. And I love true crime.
I have a real hard problem and probably going to say things I could read. Another thing I'm going to say, but I just think it's time, especially with the actors and the dramtization of it, it's just stuff. And I will give examples of good ones that are from really good ones over there. But literally like, you stop getting your sick, being super star people to play with them or seeing this because what's happening now is it's going to tick tock and people are going and I know this is just a certain amount of individuals and I'll stop me running in a minute.
But they will be like, look at that bird. This is my German drama. Well, that bird. He would kill the bird and then he would look at things.
And I was like, this is really cute. And I'm like, this is all I've got. This is disgusting. That is bad.
You're really bad. Really bad. Yeah. I saw one on TikTok where it was like, Jeffery, no Ted Bundy in the streets, Jeffrey drama in the sheets.
Are you fucking kidding me? Oh my God. Like, oh, it's terrible. It's awful.
And I know that they mentioned in the chat letters, you know, these families don't go out there and watch something that's being dramatized of their life. But it doesn't have to get shipped around on the likes of TikTok and Instagram and Twitter. Like, it's there for them to see that it's still present. They can never move forward from it.
Now, do get what he means. I just, it's pasted all. TikTok for a week after Jeffrey Darmett came out was literally just all about Jeffrey Darmett. Either it was clips from actually the real court case or clips from the show.
It was still there to see all the time. I think I think I think it was going to chug, churning with some. Well, I agree quite all heartedly with most of what Michaela said there. But there's one bit about the casting of Zac Efron that I would really, really history with in the fact that he was supposed to be there to play a handsome charming Bundy.
Because it's based on Bundy's girlfriend at the time at which he was arrested. It's very much from her perspective of having to deal with a guy that she was kind of idolizing and very much in love with. And I think in that sense, they actually got Zac Efron right because how, I can never pronounce a second name. The girlfriend surname Elizabeth.
She did idolize Bundy. She thought that he was going to be like an egging, shagging armory. She called her book the Phantom. Sorry, I don't want to go off on one.
I'm trying to be shouting it down. But just in fact, I thought they did very well with getting Zac Efron. They're not because they were trying to glorify Bundy, but they were trying to do justice to how Bundy from the point of view. That's her interpretation of him.
I know that I totally get that. She was, I think she was a wonderful, she was the epitome of the person that thought that of Bundy because she was in love with him. He was arrested. That's why this type of element is, you're always going to get different viewpoints and people's.
That's why it is always going to be interesting and everyone's going to have a different opinion. I've not seen that our opinion is right, but no. It's just getting a little bit harder, stomach with everything now because all the things that the Arblis and now we're getting the John Wayne G.C. T.
Eps, Charlie Manson T. Eps, the scouring through recordings and the making these TV shows and normally three or four episodes on a T. Eps, T. Eps, he said about four sentences and it's nothing different, but they're going back and rehashing this information.
The one I tried watching not too long was the son of Sam one, the son of Sam the cult of Batman. And it just went off in this tangent about weird and stuff that had nothing to do with the son of Sam until the third episode where it was distinct. What is this shit? Yeah.
If you don't know about the likes of David Bergoids you're going to take that shit seriously and it's not that deep. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, it's not. I don't want to know.
But they do span that shit out. Like, say on the opposite side of things, they've done some quite interesting ones. Like the night's the one that did not belong, but I was from the perspective of the investigating police officers and it showed the investigation and how they went through and what the lengths and everything that they didn't, like the effects it had on their family, like investigating such a case. And it was done in a way that you thought, like, can this is new information?
This is not glorifying it. This is just basically finding out the process. And again, we all, I'm not going to say we're not horrified because we all are interested in these type of aspects. Some more than others, like, fair enough.
And all that do these things in, like, all around the North East now, where they do a serial killer talk. So you can get like a professor that do, like, almost like a lecture on the minds and different types of serial killers and how, like, say there's the sexual pervert ones, the thriller, the ones and stuff like that. I haven't been an only waste man. I think you've been every sound.
You went to one or did you not go? No, I didn't go because I generally thought I'd be had no more than them. That's how my brain was working. Like, no, I haven't been.
And I want to go back to the Ted Bundy tape just for a second. Did they use the one where he talked to the priest? Or was it a diff? Because I know we did a load of interviews because he looked at talks shit.
But was it the priest ones that it is? I can't remember if the first head was it? Because if it was the priest ones, he took them for a fucking ride. He said everything that they wanted to hear about, like, blaming it all on the devil and shit like that.
And it was porn, a porn that was it, poor, he literally, they planted the seed and he just went, I'm going to run with this. And he pretty much had their life on them interviews. And I didn't know if they'd use them and use them as actual gospel because he taught so much shit in them tapes. But then, as I said, with all the different type of TV shows, there was a Charlottesville point one out in the chat.
What I did actually love was the mind on the one, but it wasn't about the serial killers. It was about the FBI and the start of the profile and then how they would categorize the serial killers and how they went to the penitentiary. And like, I've got the name of the guy who, like the main serial killer who had Kemba, and he was just literally terrifying in the shore. He's such a fascinating creature, though.
He's got like the highest one of the highest IQs. He's quite openly will say, do not let me out of prison. I will do this again. Mind on the, read the book.
He's a massive, let me pat myself on the back, John Douglas, you did a good job. You did all this by yourself. When he completely misses out the back, he had such a massive team behind him. Kemba is somebody who, the scene where Kemba stands up and he sits himself, that did happen.
What I really despised about that show is the BTK, Dennis Rader, I hear Dennis Rader so much, and they had that theme going through the middle of it. And John Douglas had nothing to do with Dennis Rader. And I did not understand why they had that running theme of him running through it. I just didn't get it.
Because they wanted a big bad and that was the whole thing. It wasn't really going to be the, the, again, this is a dramatized shore. Oh, I know, I know, I just could there not be anyone else? Dennis Rader is an absolute dickhead.
But as he said, it is one of the biggest serial killers. America that nearly got away with it as well. That's the thing. I think it goes deeper with Rader.
Rader's so nasty. He booked the trend as well, didn't he? You know, everything that they thought knew about serial killers, they had Rader's profile completely off, didn't they? And they thought he was like, they literally profiled him as the polar opposite of what he was.
And he did just stop. Rader only made himself known because, well, God only knows why he made himself known. It's not like he went back on a spree engaged with them in the court. Because he was so narcissistic, he named himself.
So he named himself BTK. And because it got it wrong, that's why he started to communicate. And that's why it was his downfall. But then Grenst just answered your question.
Why were they using them in that program? Because as I said, it's a dramatization where they were going through the profile of serial killers. So if it was, because I got caught up in season two and it was being cancelled, but they said the end-game was the BTK killer. That probably would have disproven everything that had been where the floor was.
That's the idea I kind of got. Never got why he was running the running main thing through it. I was like, there's so many more people that John Douglas has encountered and they used him. And it's probably just my distasteful hit of the man that I hated the idea that he was running.
That he was there. Well, let's be honest, you're not meant to like these people. If you said that you were like any of these people, that's true. That's true.
That's true. I'll be questioning your sanity even more than I normally do. No, that's true. And I get that.
I totally get that. I just say. I think the things like that mine hunter at end, and otherwise I never build an about how I'm sorry with the hotel, where they had like a serial killer in a party. And I just think it's really distasteful.
I think it can be doing well. I think something like monster, the perfect example of doing something that has been well of it, even though I would sometimes say I don't want to see it real quick. But that's just my opinion. And it's that like, oh, this is, it's that like defiant role.
And it just, I don't, it was a bad day for me mounted like, like the whole domic thing I did to some of the recent one, a good one to reference. I think I pulled up for that. Like it seemed like it got really, I have not seen all of it because I really just did not find it to watch. But I've seen fiends where he's like, got his pop off and everyone's like, wow, which is fine because what's his name?
Evan Speed is. Yeah, it's a very attractive one. But when it relates to Dharma and like sexualizing the series, like, that's just really bad taste. And it's like, in an audience of TV show, but it's like, I'm not going to get awards for this.
Like Dominic West plays, Fred West, and then got award and she got an award at a part of the actress's name. And it's like, I don't think about the name, sorry, I know who she is. It's like this define and I don't know if it's just something that leaves a little bad taste, because it's like, I really got it in their heads. And I think we're given too much credit.
So we're just horrible people. But when like, TV's went, I didn't figure it out. It's not so it's like amazing how they got away with it. No, it's because of either killing women who don't care about killing men who don't care about, you know, killing the minorities, killing the people who don't like that.
The police are like, whatever, like, like, like a big thing. Cause sorry Paul. No, I just agree to what you're saying. And again, that's like, we did get away with it.
Cause police and deputy or police, like say, I've a former four week racist, like the the time of case, it actually did happen. When he took the boy back in the house, cause he said it was his boyfriend, he didn't want to deal with any gay shit. That's basically the word that the cops use and he said afterwards, they need to get washed after. And that's on file that actually recording that was said, which is horrific.
Sorry, I'm just correcting something for Kelly that's into one last podcast on the last Kelly. That was not true. My rehingly and Rose West did not have a relationship with each other in prison. And all that's part of that.
I think put it on their last episode. But that it did the went and prison long enough for each other for that to happen. That's what I was typing. Sorry.
That was easy to say that apparently she did have a thing with baby people. I'm a little person that big. Yes. How did we know that?
That's a good way to go. But you're in the information that you were saying about McKiller there. Cause that's the thing, I was trying to look into this as well. Cause there's lots of different definitions of like say different kinds of colors and stuff.
But to be called a serial color, it's not really that much. It's not really that much to have to do. We have that definition. It's basically all it says is people who kill three or more people.
Which to me always seems like it had to be more of a class as a kind of like a serial color. Which again, it's kind of like a glamorous title for like these type of people. But I always think the American ones do always like those like kind of like the glossy and shiny things to them and always trying to dig them up almost like the art out of like a horror movie type thing where the British ones it's always like quite dirty and seedy and it's just like nasty and type thing as Sam's just typing this and it's just this and the chat. Good.
I'm so sorry. I'm just making sure I haven't dropped that Kelly. That's all. I am.
I completely agree. Cause maybe it's like a budget thing. I don't think I think like ITV do really good dramatization. I think the I think the great like they did a Steven Lawrence one which was brilliant which was more about the police and the police and the man and the one that I really wanted to talk about was four lives I think four lives what came up this year which was about and I cannot remember any of the names but it was a grinder killer who killed four game in the arena.
Oh I have not seen it. Steven. Steven Merchant who played well he wasn't the main main guy. He was there because of the story but it was about the parents and it was just doing so well great acting very simple.
You know like I think was obviously America have bigger budgets here on that. It's always going to quote unquote better but I just thought how they told that story and the thing is we I think they were kind of always saying there's something in the past. That happened like could be as though and the same thing happened they did not want to touch it because it was about gay men. They didn't want to lie the hands on it.
They didn't want to think because what was happening and how they were they thought they were dying on them. Oh like just I can't remember what kind of drug it was but they're like it was a party party gay drug kind of thing and it was just like this is absolutely bullshit and they just didn't want to go there because of the gay. Yeah. That was that happened the last one.
I don't know if it was in five years. It wasn't that we got I have heard about that one then they really did. I think it's called Little Boy Blue. I might be saying it wrong and I do apologize and it was all about the little boy who got shot in Liverpool and and it was it was all to do with obviously the you got shot.
The show that popular was really on the investigation and the shit that the police had to do in order to to kind of love that side of it where you are seeing and either the rights and wrongs of how it was done especially Stephen Lawrence. That was that was a hard one to watch. Well what is Mam had to go through was absolutely horrific and still what parents are having to go through today. Yeah.
If we're not talking like if we stay away a little bit from the dramatization side of things and actually talk about like the two life stories and stuff like that and how like the press kind of like portraits and stuff and all from I say when I was younger and like used to hear all the stories and like anything used to happen like anything nasty like the things that they used to plaster on the the newspapers and stuff were just about hearing to make say the stuff and how shipping came out and stuff was just like it was it was goolish at the best of times. Well I remember talking to me and I was like when I was younger because I'd say you hear all the stories I can get to all the different things and I know like I wasn't like obsessed the wrong word I was interested in them it was murders and I would try and find out like read information and hear about like being really in my rindling things like that and the crimes they have committed I think it was because it was towards children and kind of had a different effect on me and like scared a little bit more and I used to talk to me about it and I was like like is any of these types of things that actually scared you when you were like a young girl she said she the only time she actually got scared was during the Yorkshire River when it started thinking it was from the North East as well like I mixed with the Hawks here and stuff she said that was the only time that she generally did feel unsafe and she didn't go out on a night time because of it and so it did have that type of like resonant effect but was any like like the cases that kind of had similar or like effects to use like when you when you're going up like I'm not saying like took an interest but like yeah where you kind of like wanted to know more about if that makes sense. And just to I don't want to call it a fun fact but it is a fact my father-in-law when the Yorkshire River investigation came up in the North East because the assumed he was at the thought he was a minor and yeah my father-in-law was actually interviewee and when that went happening when that happened I was actually going to bring that up last time we spoke about the river and I completely forgot about it and I think he mentioned it actually but yeah Nicky Allen is a massive one yeah that is a huge one that is an aim that I will never ever forget and that was it not so much I was taking away what that is yeah but that's a typical one because that's one like said because it's not just like a serial killer type of noise and it was just a crime that happened and we still haven't got the resolution for and for sure I think that's because it happens so close and we were at same age as Nicky when that happened as well so that would have been upsetting it was like a young girl that got killed in Sun and I'd say Hendon Docks wasn't it? I think so.
It was where the Bonded warehouses now. Yeah and it was like literally she walked from her mother and her grandmother lived like flaps apart from each other and she walked from one to the other and was never seen again that was literally it and it was terrifying at the time it was what the early 90s? Cog. I think it was on crime watch and like to have your own town on crime watch was like the program alone was terrifying enough then to see Sunderland on there was even more terrifying and yeah that stuff was that one I still don't stick with this because I don't think people ever find doubt I don't think there's anyone being arrested for it.
And was just pointing out in the chat that someone's been arrested for it recently but I don't know too much information about that. Not me either. What about you Grant? Are you still there?
Are you still here with us Grant? Oh yeah sorry I am. There was a there was a clip where when Paul said nobody had a movie in my camera. The Bonded house we talked about was the we would actually end up here with an intensity real killer.
I went to college here at Dutton and that I was in Scotland there was a guy surface called Dennis Harker. Right you got to put a frozen on me. You frozen on us too love. So we lost a grant.
We lost a grant. We'll go to Kayla. Over to you. Nothing really I really remember the childhood there.
I'm a big a big girl. I'll talk about more recently is literally last year and this is how I'll kind of like choose me. I changed constantly but I did a project. I'm an art curator and I do art you think.
I'm just an artist. I'm not honest. I'm not that much talent. And I did a project last year all about femicide.
I never was about femicide in the UK and Mexico. Femicide is the murder of women. And learning more about how we treat victims is kind of the thing that's kind of really I don't know like just quote me. I basically I kind of knew a little bit about it but like so obviously last year is such an absolute blur.
Like I can't remember which year which but when we were doing a project and in that project Sarah Everad died and she got murdered and watching that being so focused on femicide and actually like living a story and it wasn't really her like it was brutal and horrible but having that actually like live while you do a project about femicide because you saw embedded in the way and it wasn't her story it was other people's stories that never got the same attention. So she still to the figure her name is like it was a cold when you were in one of the tweets thing was when it's like trending I thought that's trending. Yeah and like his and Wayne cousins do better to trend all the time because things change it. Anyway it was the sisters of Bieber Henry and Nicole Morman and Paul Joseph Alexander they were murdered before Sarah Everad.
They got stabbed to death in a park and one of the best is and they got left there. I think the brother or one of the partners found them there and when the police got there they were taking pictures of them. So they're dead bodies and you're going to put them around the WhatsApp group and it really just never got any of the attention it should have got and it's just because them two women were black. They're ever with a white middle class you know beautiful women and I'm not saying we can't talk about white middle class people women but that's just how the media portrays murders and like that's why when we talk about reenactment and all this it has to be really important because people get their history lessons from TV shows.
Yeah so when you talk about podcasts now and all that's the thing yeah. So I think you really do as much as I get artistic differences but then maybe do with honest with a lot if you've got to do an artistic interpretation of something because I honestly think it should be fucked and I know that's quite dull to some people but people do take a lot if anyone's going to do something about Sarah Ebrad or that kind of thing she'd really talk about all the other women who would be completely forgotten about and they were just one of them. I remember there was a case in Darlton that really like just hit my heart she went her boyfriend went over and I think he I can't remember but he wanted I think it was something like you wanted to have sex with her and she had no any just ego left and got and got five years in prison for murdering a woman. The same all.
Yeah and I could forget me sorry but muddled there because there's so many of them and all of them and five years five years of murdering someone. Sure. I would present Tara. It's an absolute joke.
I was sentenced as a ridiculous. This is why I think it's very important to have a lot more fact in entertainment because yeah I think these stories should be called for maybe with a little more um less gloss yeah empathy. That's I think that's the key word I think is missing from a lot of these different things now. It's all about the resin towers and again I can understand why I don't can sort of like getting the views getting getting the money in getting the looks but that's why I was I thought it would have been an interesting topic to talk about it next year as this but I always had that worry in the back of the mind that I didn't want to glorify you at the same time.
That that's like it was the key message I was trying to put us but now Grant's back with us. I would love to hear your comments. Yeah I want to hear your comments. Yeah sorry guys Michael has already touched on the timing as well.
The one that kind of got me into the kind of serial killer so to speak for to Ramirez and based very much on the fact that I mean you know we're all around about same age here you know Marilyn Manson came out when we were about 12, 13 year old and whenever you read about him it was all that oh well they've got one name serial killer and this kind of go through all things to find out who it was and Ramirez fascinated me because for a long time he blamed Highway at L.A.A.C.C. as the reason why he did what he did and I thought that album is one of my absolute half-place outs so I was always like what kind of mind is driven to such violence and such a poverty by the same sounds that make me smile and down the street but then in my later teens we got a case in Darlington and it's Harka who murdered a girl called Julie Matthews and got her in bits and eight bits of that and he was another one of these like a serial type of an unhinged metalhead. You know that's Pantera's the first line the chorus line from becoming up with Snake's Eyes becoming God's Eyes tattooed around his head and he was intended to do more because I went to college around there and you people that were associated with him on you know daily of not hourly basis there was all sorts of stories that came out in relation to what he was planning on doing but thankfully the court and after he was a victim and just kind of it set about an interest in his entire rights all of them you know I thought it was kind of how did the things that I wouldn't say necessary Pantera makes me happy but it definitely is an upbeat music for me and I got that for these people find such hate for them and that I found some more beauty and all they just stopped me just kept me digging into the psyches and people yeah I totally got what you said it's the same reason why um the West members three stuck with me the fact that it was and I called on to that quite early in the night like quite that's really late on in the 90s and and it was three kids who listened to metal who get accused of the most heinous act in like in the world is killing three children and the reason is behind it is because the way that they love that you know and they dress no different that I asked where the t-shirts that they had I had like the metallic t-shirts and in that case still to this day still sticks with me because they're still fighting for their innocence but I think that's got a lot to do with people's perceptions as well like people's perceptions still hasn't changed this year because a lot of people still look at like these type of killers and say well they didn't look like a serial killer you didn't act like a serial killer who would like because everyone's got like as he said as going to said a definition of what a serial killer would look like an act and have to be looking at like listening to the end of your death music and uh be covered in tattoos and just generally look unhinged but when you look at it like the world's worst people have been people that's been kicking about you could be your next door near there could be someone that's like you went to school with and you thought well there was really cool like not many people thought well Jeffy dine was a different case because he like say he was a little bit more peculiar than the rest of them but like the John Wayne Gacy was like a counselor for his community or something that where I think we used to go from and he was except one the most sadistic person he 11-8 um if like Harold Shipman was like say he looked at him he looks like just an innocent old bloke that he wouldn't be scared of and stuff like that so it's kind of good but then as I said you got to the obvious ones that like what was voted what he didn't actually kill anyone was like Charlie Manson and he like say killed by proxy like say the people who he was involved with wouldn't have done what they did if it wasn't for his and his teachings and his manipulation and stuff like that but he didn't actually pick up anything or do any as he said but he's probably one of the most renowned people I was going to when you hear the word serial because you think Charlie their child Manson yeah it's always the difficult um wanted to grasp there because it's down to people's perceptions and what their team is evil and his vial because like I've went to like the borough in sum and which had most of the like if you looked around you probably saw most the scum and bill me ever say you had had was a kid star wars over and for its money for the people I was in there but you would never make made a nice out more caring bunch of people which again if you walked in people would be terrified normally and that did happen to use the same people walking the pubic walks through back out yeah and Manson does his hands are definitely clean when it comes to the T.A. and Lavie Ander murders but he did kill somebody and but it's not it's years before what happened then he that kiss is probably is so interesting just because of the psyche of everyone and the oh gosh how everyone lived at that time and he's dead now yeah very much but uh like say that's when like I think you passed away and that's when they're not on the start of leasing all the like the Charlie Manson stuff again he's like working in his ramblings and like there was a guy I think Louis through even interviewed or something that stuff kind of like he's like grandparent like he's sons and grandchildren shit like that they're like wanting custody of his body like something like I remember seeing something like that yeah but it's just like a strange like thing um you get like the complete opposite of type thing as I said you get the people they were just like sick like the Fred would in Rose West I would just have the sexual glorification but then um like say that Eileen Warner won which is all which and Michaela did touch on was always clear um I always think if it was a man doing what she did would should be attracted the same way or would be to kind of would have got the deaf family as quickly as as they had um it was just because like say they had a woman killing men that they needed just put a stop to ensure like say but again that's just my opinion on that aspect as well no it's it's not far from it Eileen's such a I don't want to say special because what she did was not great but she is someone who I I don't even say feel sorry for it's just the woman was ill she was mentally ill she was at the worst upbringing that they could possibly be and she was killed because of it was a vote Ted um uh Jed what's his face what's what but dead bush needed the votes so he said oh we'll just we'll just shove her in the chair and that'll help and it's just it's a sad case when it comes to it and it's it's one that's oh I don't even know if I can say the right words for it no no no just to put it at a point I could use that to be very very interesting and again because me and Nicole had a conversation about last night I do think in certain aspects you can feel sorry for the people who's committed these acts but you can't feel sorry for the acts they're committed there's a big difference there because like say if there's people they've done what they did you can't take that back but as I said there's still mental health issues there's still um people like say if that went through when they're younger there's there's an excusable people as well certainly makes it beyond reason they can't ever say that like like you would ever whole hardly forgive the people do but you can feel sorry for them and I think you can sure that's the key word or that's why I went because we've got the empathy yeah such a hard one to put into words when it comes to Eileen because I never want to forgive what she did because you can't can't forgive that part of it but this it's Eileen is so much more it is deeper than than the killing it that makes sense I have a sort of controversial what you controversial now this doesn't mean I believe that this happened but it could some hundred percent from the industry from the places she was with from a background from some men all them five people could have assumed to make horrible and you know how he's always like one person raped and then like it snapped and then that's that's the that's the narrative everyone holds yeah I wouldn't be surprised if everything on one of them people did something to wear I'll try to do something to wear and then she just was like I'm not dating this shit anymore I'm not saying that's what happened I am just saying well this is why I have it a hard one minute since I am one it's not all female serial killers and people who did her because there are some evil evil people who know that too just um it's just there's something about her story and background and half people where everything you do you get shit on yeah the worst like going and I just feel like that was her and maybe her take on the serial killer was more just like sick of this shit yeah I've had it and it's a moment where she's with Nick Broomfield as I said that right Kayla yeah I think so yeah yeah and where Eve's she's she's ranting and raving because she also wants to get her execution date up in front of the you know she wants to do with it and I think that's a lot of her she's just done with it and then when he drops the camera the whole facade just drops and it's like I have to do this no one's gonna believe anything I say anymore I have to start ranting and raving because it's the only way I kind of get things moving and it was so the programs of Nick Broomfield that don't guys wrong there's a lot of the things I don't like about Nick Broomfield but what he did for Eileen I thought was um incredibly quick to avoid that.
Oh to a degree especially when he brought the second one out the first one was enough um but it was something that needed to be seen because the narrative that was told of Eileen was not cut and dry it wasn't just straightforward like everyone thought it was so much more to it and he in the first documentary he did he really brought that one out yeah I got it. I think it's a complete bias on me I am a woman I am often but I do have an answer to it maybe I'm like down the bottom and I just think with um with that one in particular I think there's more maybe more nuanced I don't know what maybe I'm looking at maybe it's me looking too much with it and she just really wanted to take her leaves man I don't know but yeah it's it's a weird one because I think like I don't know who said I don't know about um people kind of think serial killers are in the past or like an old term you don't really hear too much about these years I don't know if that's more to do with like it's harder to get away with murder or get away with these type of acts now is the better care for people in these type of situations where back then there was not no one you could talk to about these urges or anything or again people just getting better at hiding these type of situations because I do think that elements would never go away because in in manor and any like type of course there's always that going to be an inherent aspect and stuff that that never will leave because there's always hate in the world there's always brutality and there's there's not enough kindness in the world type thing which again is a pretty weird look at it but it's just I don't like what like do you think like their mass specks is it all the above or is it just like say are we just not other just like I said is the police are we just getting better at not legally in this information publicly anymore I think they're still out there I just I think they're I think they're very careful on what it is we see these days um but again I do think you're right I think it's too hard now it is to get away with the likes of what happened in the past ring doorbells are the future they capture everything you can't you can't if you walk past a ring doorbell you cannot escape like it's all it's all they're like oh I don't know I find it very hard to talk with in this one because it's because I don't want to say the wrong thing there's nothing wrong you can't say don't worry like say no one's gonna you don't want to say anything offensive it's it's a sensitive subject we're talking about but again it's just like say how you fail and like say how you fail is not a wrong thing about it it's just um it's always like say interested about like how like things go on and stuff I know there always make jokes about which and stuff like um like recently in the new Sanman TV show that a serial killer convention where it's like as like a serial like conflicts and stuff and you had all these inherent people doing talks on how to get around it how to exploit money from people and stuff like that and again I wouldn't be surprised because the Merigal America is that that element isn't always there and like it isn't I think but I think that's the difference because you said that the media is careful I think in the UK wise they are very careful and information to do give out and when it is like it does go blown out or you know if you've been in America what the media like is everything the other wind and it's blown the wrong way and it's like oh this kind of game 9 hurricane and stuff and everything's sensationalized to the blue degree where it makes you terrified to leave the house in America honestly I've never seen news stories like I've done it one week with that but I always remember I was making a lot more watching an episode of bogey and an umbrella came on I shitched myself when an umbrella happens in America it doesn't just cut through like road signs and shit like that it goes through your telly it goes through anything that has a live transition like transmission so you can it literally is the police department giving you the umbrella but we're trying to watch the vampire so we're spoken terrifying I don't think this is an american thing that I think this is an american thing that I think is a bit wise everything over here you do I think it's amplified over there compared over here we're doing it very very British way like we do this song gets killed down south you would hear about it but someone gets killed in the north Hd you'll hear it in the local like well nothing really hurts it doesn't really come out as as much over here where if someone gets killed in America it's like you hear it never you see it that's going like Jim Bob and Maxia someone from down south sorry to upset him american that then use out that's a very different in that chat hours is what i think what you're trying to see but what were you granted i know you're going to see you've always got an interest in you quite in stuff like this what we want to see? no no no no yeah um i think oh a fraudulent guy it's crazy what we can hear yeah all right okay that's awesome and sorry what we talked about again but just me and how like see what basically get about to the end so i think that and how actually why do we all about to not hear about them i definitely think that for a deal of more difficult now we live in a world where everybody had a camera on them you know what i mean every mobile phone has GPS and the you know the frighteningly quick advance that we've had in the last 20-30 years with regards to technology and uh sprenzicks and all that kind of thing i do think we're seeing and maybe not so much a case of how can i put it i think the problem has probably got bigger you know what i mean you know as the world has gotten smaller with technology it's not a case somebody's going and killing around us you know sangelies or you know the denver like bungee that's like that you got people that will go and kill somebody in los angeles and then go and kill somebody in new york and then go and kill somebody in seattle and if they are still operating on that level of compulsion and murder that they've spread themselves a lot further than they ever have before and that is going to be very very difficult to find especially because worldwide you know what i mean crazy people on holiday and just murder some you know you've checked off to australia and does it over there and then jessus with america and does it over there you never gonna find out first ever no i think we uh i think we are past the days of the serial killers that have been you know the likes of undies and darmers i don't think we are past i hope we are past those days anyway but probably it's gonna be different we as now it's more rather than doing it over time it's probably like over a spree so you know we got these killers that i come out and they'll kill four or five people in a shooting or um or like to an obon blast because in a way they are still acting or causing as much damage just in a short space of time i think that's probably the way we will get this information or like people there and they probably will recapiturize it and like say if someone kills one person but they're killing a weird that they can prove or you can never prove or they can probably say that this guy will keep going on if like if we level up the mountain stuff like that so then that would always be the recapitification if that makes sense? categorization yes um but again it's still terrifying like say there's nothing more scary than human nature at times i think and nothing that's where this becomes like the macabre subject as well because as much as we i think it's inherent to despise it we can't get enough of it at the same time we'd still want that information with like um i think like say the dama thing is what came second to stranger things as the most strange strange thing on niffics um like since it's released which shows that the interest in it is not going to go away no it's still going to like say we're still going to get people that thirsty for the information um i guess it's always been around like zero we've always had books assisted and radio shows and now we're getting tv shows podcasts like yeah single killer podcast and true crime podcasts are like like because we missed this uh uh board doing an early podcast we should have done a series of the one one of the biggest ones in the uk who win all of our all of the podcast awards red handed they are um allis literally just been listening to them before we came on um they are incredibly informative they cover such a wide range i don't know if we kill a little like them or not um but i don't know why though i enjoyed um seredy and hannah i find them incredibly informative i feel like they do the research see i think they don't do their research they did it one about jeremy kyle um or about that guy who killed himself and they used one reference sort of it was documentary yeah that's not that's not research and michael allig um one i will give i will give mckayla that they did not do their research on michael allig they did not there is actually quite more than what you think that you can go and look at on michael allig and and they i think they took one one reference documentary and that was it yeah do another one for you too it was i have someone's actually just said in the chat i think it was david i couldn't say secondly i mean uh son and had we did actually have a serial killer that's leaving grieveson murders and when i was even allowed to live in roger it was actually quite scary because if you guys were too glad that i got uh killed in the allotment near where i lived and don't uh he got he was called the son and strangler they did uh um i can say you know that murder town shuan crime they didn't episode about it as well but i knew the grieveson family was it was horrible at the time when i remember it was just come back just as he said like i messaged it's a shot back yeah so i remember that uh was killed in a flat in roger uh roger avenue right next to the killer lives right now em bro she lives in the posh area didn't worry someone did also mention i think it was emma em i love the emma mentioned realm old what was he talking about?
he went on at me but he killed three people and also born actually could he cast hang on it was that did he kill he didn't kill the girlfriend the girlfriend survived he killed a boyfriend he shot the police officer but he died later later because he died obviously suicide because of the injuries yeah because of that but that was that wasn't that wasn't an event that was like all of us guys used don't feel bad because that was comical at the end when gazza came and done fishing rod and stuff and like so i remember being on the s&b like it's on a message board put like on the wall forum post and like say up dats and saying like because you've already been caught and like being cornered like well this is gonna happen in the school like and then like someone posted saying gazza's turned up with a bucket of kfc or like uh someone's doing the fissier and then you have a fishing rod as well, he brought a fishing rod for tennies and some chicken Yeah, you turned it in. But that was like, I remember maybe my dad and sitting in front of the telly glued to the whole thing. The village is actually where my dad's cousin lives now. And apparently, according to me, it's beautiful.
But yeah, we were sitting glued to the telly, watching that whole thing unfold. It was, it was crazy. Like, that doesn't happen where we lived. Like, this happens over America.
We don't see things like this. Yeah, but like, I said, I just turned into a fast though as well. Like, we're talking about a guy run around with a shotgun and we've got like, people chasing after like news reporters and stuff like that. And we were like, having a row of more to watch to see what happened next and stuff like that.
And it was, but yeah, that's human nature as well. That's a sad time that we were living in. Absolutely. Can I just say, I didn't want to say about many serial killer things.
I don't think it'll be, you know, like, the boogeyman of a person, you know, like, because I've used technology and all this kind of stuff. But don't forget that there are things, and some of them might not be a serial killer. You know, there are people who go missing and get murdered and nobody gives a shit about. So there's a thing called missing and murdered Indigenous women who get murdered in Canada, USA, Latin America, and they are literally dumped, like, on the side.
And this is a bit more to do with sex trafficking and human trafficking and drugs and stuff like that. But maybe like that is kind of the new, I don't want to say a fascination, to the whole of the word, but the new way we talk about serious, like murders and madness and things. It's more about awareness and more about em, like, like, having more information about these things happening because you don't hear about them. And maybe hopefully the positiveness of fact nature about like the interest in this could be also a really interested stop in it.
So I think that could be a positive light because TV shows and films are changing. I don't think the dude as much as they think they are. But, you know, like the Dharma thing, all the talks, the do talk about the black community, the do talk about the gay community. Personally, I wish that was the main focus.
And drama was the thing on the side. You know, like, talking about like, maybe it's a group of gay black men who live in Milwaukee, and that's your focus. And then quite well, I think I'm missing. And also a massive thing that happened back then when the A-D epidemic was just kicking off and obviously Memorable Mission because they were literally dying.
And then obviously the family just, we don't talk about him anymore. And that was another reason why I got away. There's so many amazing historical things in these stories. That's why I got away with it.
And I think it is changing. There's more like that Yorkshire files and a little point in Dharma. And they are changing, but maybe it needs to be a bit more progressive in 2022. I don't know.
I actually agree with you though that they could have, I didn't even think about the point of view, how it could have been done as opposed to just Dharma and his and making him the vocal point. The point of view could have been from, because he does have survivors and he does have neighbors around him who survived and who was still, you know, who had encounters with him. And yeah, that's, I'd watch that. Yeah, I'd see it on the flip side as well.
I can't get me head around it and it still happens to there. You got the six serial color groupies. You got these people that worship serial colors and send them letters and one and like I said, I kind of portrayed it a little bit in the Dharma show as well where women were sending them, like money and letters formed a draw. That's the thing women, but it was just like, say draw on pictures of his hand and send them pictures of a sketch of his hand.
And again, I remember the 10-1-1 that was people outside of his jail. I would have to be. Of course it could have been 15. Yeah, but they were like, they were changing their hairstyles to represent his victims.
Like, and actually when it was happening, women were changing their hairstyles to get away from that actual profile and then going back to it when the scene, what he looked like, very fucked up is that man. Come on. There's even adverts on TikTok for prisoners to be brought into. That's how far it goes.
It's so disgusting. It's vile. I was trying to finish on a point of note. I finished on a happy North with that.
I don't know. There's nothing much more to say. I really, I guess what I can say is that again, I get why the obsession. I don't know why there's such a blow up at the moment because incredibly over the last, I would say, three or four years, it's went more massive on paper.
I don't know if it's just an accessible thing to get access to these information or just basically are we getting the stage where these killers are passed away so they lose the rights to the information that's been held? And you know the freedom of information after this release and stuff. I don't know if more information's coming out that way. Again, I would love to know, like your guys want to do, why do you think it's so big and not granting very patience?
I was going to ask Grant to give anything that he wanted to bring up in this episode because I know he really wanted to be a part of it. I think you nailed the head, the nail on the head right there is so accessible. True crime is everywhere. And it gets people's sort, I don't know, it's sensitive down that rabbit hole, whether or not you want to go down, I mean, I go down many rabbit holes when it comes to serial, because it's not going to end up in all sorts of wrong places.
But it's just easily accessible. So I'm so sorry, Grant. I just wanted to say I agree with you and go for it. No, absolutely fine.
To me, it is all about accessibility. And the need to understand, you know what I mean more now than anything, we understand so much about human psychology and causes behind these things. We've talked about a lot of very, very bad people here. There's one kind of core value that I have in relation to all of these people and everything that they've done is I do not think a single one of these people was born evil.
I think they are all a product of that upbringing, of the society, of the abuses and the neglects and obviously the flip side of that as well. There's so many different tiny little things that sculpt us into the people that we are that society as a whole does have a thirsty one to understand what's happened. But the society that we also live in has a thirst to be entertained at all costs. So we've got two very, very polar opposite ends of the spectrum in those that are fascinated by the understanding and those that are fascinated to be the glorification of these things.
And not necessarily that being, you know, I'd be a hypocrite of a turn around and said that the glorification of aggression and violence is something I was against, because I sing in a metal band. And that would be the most typical statement I've ever gone with. I've never actually written about a real crime. I've written about a lot of fictitious crimes and taken enough to enough real circumstances to be able to muse into my own imagining, you know what I mean?
So it kind of went off on one there. You always sit patiently standing on one side and entertainment in the middle. And entertainment on the other side and in the middle is all of those people that are just kind of gray between it. It might be entertaining enough for them or it might be factual enough for them.
But it's going to creep in it from the edges of society. I don't think it's a bad thing that people are more aware of these things, absolutely not. Especially, Macaela said, on more than one occasion, you have the purposes of women's safety and the safety of minorities and what have you. She mentioned Iley and one rose before and a slightly more controversial than Macaela's.
I think she had absolutely the right idea. I think every time a woman is a victim of sexual violence, they get to go out and shoot five men. They'll be a sharp decline in the amount of rape that happened. And that would be a good thing to happen in the world.
Yeah, sorry, I'll just end up with fucking rambles. Grant, I could listen to you rambles forever. You wait so patiently for everyone to talk. And as I was adding grants full feelings, I covered it up.
There's plenty of cases that have dragged me in and fascinated me. But they've always been from the point of view of what we understand why that person did what they did. It's important to the West Memphis three that you brought up there before. I think it was a prime example of where we went wrong in true crime coverage over the late 90s and the early 2000s, because with the best will in the world for those three boys, because they were very, very innocent, the three kids got murdered, got forgotten in a slew of finger pointing.
And we also paradise lost two where they were kind of finger at the biggest red herring ever. And for a good decade, Mark Byers life was completely ruined because he was a big dumb eye-action rep. And the kids names got forgotten. Everything got forgotten aside from Damien Ackles and Mark Byers.
And if we'd had the right focus, then what's his name, Terry Hobbs, we'd probably do get stuff full of dick in prison, like he fucking belonged. If the glorification wasn't there. I totally 100% agree with you. I think the first documentary was pivotal.
We needed that because if you don't have that documentary, we don't know any of this. And another small state in America gets to put away three kids and we know fuck all about it. And life was on the second documentary. And this is the guy, the guy who did Joe Bergen, Berginger.
I don't know if I'm saying probably put your new surname. He did the Ted Bundy movie. He did the Ted Bundy cases. He takes the narrative of what the first one was trying to show you and just and focuses it all on Mark Byers.
They put the idea in the head. It was the documentary makers who put the idea in the head of the police that it was Mark Byers. It was them who then put it into Damien's head. He was also blaming him at the same time.
And it was it was a shit show and it continued on to be a shit show. But the first one, that's the important one. If you ever want to watch anything about the West Memphis Three, actually don't watch them. Just watch the numbers.
There you go. Anybody's going to jump on some of his recommendation there. If you're throws the grotesque imagery from literally five seconds into the credit sequence of the first paralysed law film is one of the most difficult things I've ever watched. It is heartbreaking.
Totally 100% agree. And it's also got metallic. I've seen it on the background as well. It's metallic.
So I'm like, okay. Okay. And then you don't realise where you actually are and where you're heading into. And then what you see, it is horrific the first few seconds if you're going to watch for the first paralysed law.
Actually, I think we're doing the second paralysed law as well. Yeah. I think you should really a big thing that people when you watch the thing is take the dramatisation and documentary as a same face. A documentary is not always there to give back.
It's the entertainment. It's not it's they want to give you the directors narrative. They do not want to tell you a spreadsheet of what's going on. So, you know, when you're watching a mic or more documentary, you're watching a mic or more documentary.
It's his point of deal with he wants to show you what that first is. And he's at the front of the camera. So that's why he's more visible. But remember that anybody who's behind that camera, they are telling the backstory that I tell the story of the actual fact they are telling the story that you want to know.