Not a “choose joy” episode — w/ Kate Bowler

Are you allowed to feel joy? Also, do you HAVE TO “choose joy”?That question sits at the center of this conversation with my sister Kate Bowler, NYT bestselling author and professor at Duke Divinity School, whose latest book Joyful Anyway is about as far from a "good vibes" manifesto as you can get. Kate has spent years — many of them marked by stage four cancer, medical trauma, and the particular exhaustion of being a highly sensitive person in a world built for optimization — figuring out why joy keeps showing up anyway.Joy and happiness are different. Happiness is math: accumulation, measurement, circumstances adding up. Joy has nothing to do with your gratitude journal and everything to do with whether you're willing to say a weird yes in the middle of a hard no.We go deep on what ambition actually looks like when it's rooted in your aliveness instead of your achievement. We talk about the dance between structure and surrender.  We talk about what it means to witness yourself, what our limitations have to do with our humanity, and why the people who've lived through the most nos often feel joy more fully than anyone.It's also one of the funniest conversations I've had on this show. Kate got bitten by a snake. She rented a pirate ship. She asked her surgeon to perform a magic trick. And I roast her at the end about a blanket. You'll want to stay for all of it.In this episodeWhy "choose joy" is kind of a lie —How a stage four cancer diagnosis cracked ambition back openThe hospital magic trickWhy the depth of the no conditions the height of the yes What our limitations, scars, and very specific kinds of damage have to do with what makes us most humanWaypoints[00:02:30] — Joy is not happiness (and happiness is just math)[00:07:00] — Ambition, aliveness & closing the door[00:17:00] — You can't open the door. You can only unlock it[00:20:00] — The magic trick (and other weird yeses)[00:36:00] — Snake bites, pirate ships & fear palate cleansers[00:45:00] — What makes us humanResourcesSecret invitationJoyful Anyway by Kate BowlerKate's podcast: Everything Happens with Kate BowlerEverything Happens InitiativeThe film Rental Family (Japanese loneliness, witnesses, and the grace we give each other)Nick Cave on AI and the travesty of tribute songs without limitsHave a creative quandary? Submit a question to be answered on the showGot some creative resistance? Get your free audio guide to the Creative Resistance Practice for unblockingTheme song by deadmen