Not Who I Thought

Hey folks, this is Kevin. On this week's episode of Rescue'll Hear Stephen Harder. So ostensibly, I had three father figures in my life. And it struck me that none of them thought that I was worth fighting for.

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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Now here's the show. Hello folks, this is Risk. The show where people tell true stories.

They never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison. This is Rally Moncrief behind me now. And we're calling this week's episode Not Who I Thought.

Oh and that experience where you thought you and a traveling companion knew each other well enough to be helping one another get to a destination and then dot dot dot. Now in a little bit we're going to hear from Alyssa Marcus. And I should warn people that there is a brief mention of suicidal ideation in that story which was recorded at the Risk LA show in May. And the next Risk LA show is at our new venue, the Lyric Hyperion on July 18th at 730 p.m.

And you can get your tickets at risk-show.com slash live. But before that, a fascinating beautifully told story by Stephen Harder. Stephen is such a thoughtful storyteller. And this one digs into the complexities that arise from family secrets, you know, always a loaded topic here on Risk.

Stephen's own podcast, The Naked Mennonite, is just as fascinating. So don't miss that. And here he is now Stephen Harder with a story we call Dad, Dad. So I've got this one picture on my fridge.

It's a picture of me. I'm probably like two or three years old or so. Just a happy toddler, right? And the other day I was walking through the kitchen and out the corner of my eye, I saw the photo and just this thought bubbled up for my subconscious.

And the thought was, I hate that kid. And when I heard myself think that I was totally arrested, I just stopped in the moment to say like, what the fuck man? What on earth caused that thought to bubble up? So I'm like digging around trying to get into my subconscious a little bit.

And I think the idea that spurred that thought on was the idea that he has no right to be so happy. If only that kid was more angry, maybe I wouldn't have to feel so angry now. So when I was in my pre-teens, I delivered newspapers. It was a little bit of a badge of honor for me because every day at 5am, I'm getting up, I'm like, calling in all these newspapers and flyers and I'm like going out into the dark streets to deliver them.

And I was pretty proud of myself that I could do that. Nobody else gave a fuck, but I was proud. But Saturdays were the killer. Saturdays the papers were bigger.

They were heavier. There was more flyers that I had to like stuff into every one of them. And I had like 50% more subscribers than during the week, right? So what was, you know, maybe a one-hour job, maybe 45 minutes turns into like this two-hour ordeal every single Saturday, right?

But the saving grace was the fact that my mom would get up on Saturdays with me and she would help me deliver the papers, right? We would load all of these papers onto my wagon or onto the toboggan if it was wiggery and she would be lugging them behind while I walked up and down the streets delivering these things. Then when we were done, we would get back home. I would pour myself a bowl of cereal.

She would pour herself a second cup of coffee and we would watch the five hours of general hospital that she had recorded through the week, you know, her soap opera of preference, right? And it was just this really neat tradition that we had of just getting caught up on all of like the convoluted melodramatic plots that the writers had conceived for the actors that week, right? You know, at any given moment, I could have updated anyone on the most important plot developments throughout the week on general hospital, which lent zero social credibility to me on the playground. But it was still just this really special tradition that I had with my mom.

And I remember years later, my dad saying, you know, I know you and I will never have the same kind of relationship that you have with your mom. And it was really rare for him to share that kind of internal vulnerability with me. So I really want to be respectful of that moment. So it's like, yeah, yeah, I don't know what to say, dad.

Yeah, you're right. But internally, I'm like, Oh, no shit, Sherlock, she's my mom. You only came into my life when I was seven. Of course, I'm going to have a closer relationship with her.

So I've always known that my dad isn't like my first dad. Well, for the purpose of the story, I'll just call him dad number two, right? And don't get me wrong, dad number two is a really great guy. You know, he's stable, he works, he's present.

So he's awesome in that way. But I always felt like there was there's just something missing, you know, like our times together meant watching TV or watching a movie or watching him play Pac-Man for hours on hand, right? There was something missing from this relationship. This isn't what I'm being sold on TV, right?

But all that being said, I still knew that he was a million times better than the alternative. Dad number one was an abusive alcoholic. My mom tells a story about when he pushed her down a flight of stairs and she hurt her arm. And he said, next time, I'll do a better job.

And I will never comprehend the courage that it must have taken her to draw the line and say this has to stop, to pack me up and to get the fuck out of there. And thank God that she did. My memories of dad number one are just so hazy, so foggy, because I was so young, I was three when we left. I know that I would visit him on occasion and sometimes I would spend the night.

And the only clear memory I have is of a bed being made for me in the living room on the couch. So I'm laying there on the couch, I'm underneath this like, you know, just orange and brown and green afghan that was just like puked straight from the 70s, right? The room is darkened and he is sitting there with his mom because of course he lives with his mom and he turns to me and I see the squares of light from the TV being reflected in his glasses and he turns to me and he says, roll over, face the back of the couch and go to sleep. You know, and that's that's the clearest memory I have of him, you know, not even in a bedroom.

Just turn away and go to sleep. And I don't know how often those visits happen, but I remember when they stopped, I was like five years old, I want to say. I remember because I was standing in the apartment in my bedroom. I think it was that Thursday and I knew that I was going to be visiting my dad on this Saturday and my mom walks into the room and she says, your dad just called.

He doesn't have any money for gas, so he can't see you this weekend. And just this wave of hurt and anger and frustration wells up within me and I'm screaming out, why doesn't my dad love me? I'm breaking down in tears because that's all that I want and I just can't get it. And after that, my mom says, no, this is not happening anymore.

This is the end of the business because she couldn't stand to see me in that kind of anguish anymore. You know, and the only other memory I have of him is of a Saturday morning and I'm talking to him on the phone. I'm up early, you know, watching my cartoons and mom is still in bed. And the only reason I even remember anything about the incident was because of my mom's fury when she came out of the bedroom and found me five years old, talking on the phone with him, you know, just just the rage that she unleashed on him and all he wanted to do was talk to me.

And I just couldn't understand why she had to be so angry. I didn't understand why she needed to slam the door to that part of our life so incredibly hard. But it was clear that we were to never go near that door ever again. So despite all of that, I got to hold on to one sliver of him and it was this poster that was on my bedroom wall.

It's like a cartoon elephant. It's all pink and it's holding a cartoon mouse that's all gray and they're like making eyes at each other and they've got these little hearts above them. And I remember in blue ink written along the top, it said Happy Birthday. And then on the bottom, it said love George XO XO.

And I thought it was a little bit strange that he would sign it George and not dad. But I guess that was an indicator of him realizing the role or lack of role that he had in my life. But the important thing is that it said XO XO. I knew what that meant.

That meant hugs and kisses. My dad wanted to give me hugs and kisses because he loved me and he just couldn't. So a few years later, dad number two is on the scene, right? He marries my mom, he adopts me.

And now I've got a real dad. And this is going to be amazing. This is going to be wonderful. Except there's a piece of me that knows that as wonderful as dad number two is, he's still not my dad, dad.

Dad number one didn't want to have me in his life. And dad number two is just the understudy. My parents weren't churchgoers, but that stopped me from attending. I actually started attending with dad number two's ex-wife's family of all people.

And the whole experience just really clicked with me. I think it's for two reasons. One, because they were just so good at making me feel so goddamn special. But reason number two was because of this fucking carrot that they were dangling in front of me, you know?

I remember being eight years old and our elderly Sunday school teacher explaining to the five of us about just how much our Heavenly Father loves us. Oh, he just, he wants to be the first person we think of when we wake up in the morning. He wants to be the last person we speak to before we fall asleep. Our earthly parents, they aren't perfect.

They can't love us perfectly. But oh, you're a heavenly Father. He just wants to have a deep, meaningful relationship with you, you know? And like, this lady is talking my language.

This is what I've been waiting years for, right? So she tells us to close her eyes. And she says that anybody who wants to receive God's love and salvation in their life can put their hand up. And like, of course I'm going to put up my hand.

Who doesn't want that? But I guess I was the only person who did because she then dismissed the rest of the class and just left me alone with her. And she closed the door behind them. And then she led me in the sinner's prayer and guided me into opening my heart to Jesus to wash away all of my sins and allowing the Father's love to enter into my life.

And I just remember the tears pouring down my face because I was finally going to get the love of a Father. I had always wanted hallelujah. And looking back, I wish I had a word for when someone exploits you and your vulnerabilities with good intentions. Because then I would have a word for my entire church experience.

In more recent years, I've had people tell me that I was born gay. I can't share their confidence. I don't share their confidence because I don't know if I had had a nurturing relationship with a father figure in my formative years. I don't know if that relationship would have become sexualized and fetishized in my late teens.

But with the advent of home internet, let me tell you, my search for love from a father figure took a whole new sexier turn, you know, just hours and hours and hours of searching for just the biggest, beefiest, burliest, hairiest, sexiest men to just shower me with this love and just intimacy, right? And like 25 years later, not a lot has changed. But in my teenage years, this was tormenting me, right? Because this was an indictment against my spirituality.

This was an indicator that I was choosing my own sinful desires rather than God. And as long as I'm choosing these sinful desires, well, God's going to be limited. He isn't going to be able to be there like you want him to be there. So if God isn't meeting your needs, that's on you.

So finally, in my last year of high school, I'm 17 years old and I confide all of this in my pastor and he connects me with what would become the first of three Christian counselors that I would seek in my very own like personal ex-gay therapy regimen. So I'm 17 years old. I'm sitting in the basement office of this Christian counselor who's trying his best to offer me some guidance, as I'm like spilling out my guts to him, right? And you know, I'm sitting on the couch.

He's sitting on the armchair between us. There's a coffee table. On the coffee table is my teen study Bible. On top, the teen study Bible is the journal where I'm like, keeping all of my notes from my daily Bible studies and my prayers and all of this stuff, right?

And it's during this phase of my life that word reaches us that dad number one has died. And this news really threw me into an emotional limbo land, you know? There was no sentimentality attached to our relationship or lack thereof. He was just my mom's abuser and someone who left me an emotional cripple, addicted to gay pornography.

And I'd always wondered what I would do if I ever saw him again. You know, I'm not a violent person, but a punch to the face just always seemed justified. I'll be a hollow. And now that path was closed.

So now I am left with this burden of having these unmet needs for my biological father and they are holding me back for my relationship with God. And I just can't get over the longing that I have for that love and affection. And whoa, whoa, what am I going to do? Now that love is forever beyond my grasp, and I will never be able to do anything about it, because now he's dead, right?

And it's during one of these sessions that my counselor, he makes a suggestion. He says, what if you got a picture of dad number one? And what if you just like write a letter to him, right? And you just like lay it all out, you just rip into him, you just tell him all about all of the hurt and disappointment you're feeling.

And you just like let him have it, right? Do you think that might help? So I'm like, I'll give it a try, right? It might help.

So I procure a photo of him, I find a private place where I can be like writing this letter to him, right? And I am just struggling to gin up the anger that I'm supposed to be feeling for him, right? All of my teenage angst and frustration and confusion. I'm supposed to be pouring it out here.

I just don't have it, right? It's just messy. It's awful. I've recently found all those journals and I just burned them out of shame.

But for 10 years, 10 years, I try so hard to be this good, straight man that I believe that God wants me to be. And after those 10 years, I realize that if it's going to happen, it's not going to happen because of me. All I can do is do my best to seek God to pursue him and trust that he will do it in his time. And spoiler alert, I've since learned that there is no God, so nothing has changed and I'm just okay with it now.

About 10 years ago, my mom comes over for a visit, dad number two, he's off visiting family, right? And so she comes over and she has lunch and it's all nice. And then I see that she's struggling with something that she wants to say and her eyes are starting to red and they're getting a little puffy. And she says, there's something I need to tell you about my ex, right?

And obviously big flags go up because this is not, we don't go near this door. We don't talk about her ex. And I'm sure in other circumstances, it would just be more, I don't know, natural to refer to him by his first name. But the fact of the matter is that she married to George's.

So referring to one as George doesn't differentiate him from the other one whatsoever. So he's the ex. So she looks at me through her reddening eyes, and she says, there's a chance that my ex isn't your dad. There's a chance that dad is your dad.

And for those following along at home, that means that the father figure that I had been yearning for my entire life, there's a chance that he was, you know, there in the house with me the whole time, the abuse of alcoholic, he was just a bystander to the whole shit show. And like, I really appreciate all the hours that my mom spent watching General Hospital with me, you know, just appreciating all of these crazy made up scenarios that that the writers would put onto screen as though they were real life, right? You'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever in my mind, will I have ever conceived that such a tired, dried up, old, cliche of a plot device that your biological father isn't who you think it is, would ever impact my life so fucking deeply. So I look at my mom and tears are running down her face, like, oh, grab a box of Kleenex, I bring it to the table.

I sit next door, I put my arm around her, and I tell her, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter to me. Dad has always been dead to me, I don't care. And I see my mom in this new life, right? You know, as this woman who's just been holding onto the secret, you know, she sought comfort in the arms of a man who wasn't her abusive husband, right?

And the Catholic guilt that she's been carrying with her for years and years over that, right? She didn't want to talk about those things because it was a big cover-up, she didn't want to deal with the reality. And every time I was trying to understand a little bit better, I was just like picking at the corners of her cover-up story, right? We have a story, it works fine, let's just stick with it, leave the past in the past.

So eventually I say, well, can we get a DNA test to find out? And she's like, ugh, yes, fine, we can get a DNA test if we have to. So I procure the test, and I will always remember how cavalierly my dad stood in the kitchen with that cotton swab, like swabbing his cheek, right? On the inside, right?

Just getting his DNA all over that thing, right? Because for him, there is really no question about what the results of that test were going to be. We send the swabs away and we've got to wait a month for the test results to come back, right? So I spend that month like trying to wrap my head around all of this information, trying to place myself into the mindset of the people involved, and there's so many questions.

So one day while mom is at work, I go to the house and I have a chat with dad, and I mentioned him, you know, like, mom's ex, he just like vanished really without a trace. We just, we don't know what happened to him. He didn't even come to the adoption hearing. Did you ever mention any of this to him ever?

And there's that part of me that wanted to hear him say, yes, you know, yeah, I never told anybody of this, but when I tracked that S.O.B. down and I told him that you were my son, and that he wasn't to go anywhere near you ever again. And that if I found out that he's so much as whispered something to you, there would be hell to pay. Stay the fuck away from my son.

And that's why he just vanished from your life, not because you're some piece of trash that can just be thrown away, but because I just couldn't stand to see him hurting you the way that he was. You know, that five-year-old in me just, just yearned to hear that a father loved him and was looking out for him, even if it was from a distance. But that just turned to me and he said, no, no, I don't know anything about that. But I pressed on.

I said, like, if you suspected the whole time that I was your son, why didn't you say something? Why didn't you stand up? Why didn't you say we need to deal with this? You just shrugged and said, that was your mom's secret to deal with.

You know, just the most passive route possible. So ostensibly, I had three father figures in my life. Dad number one, my alleged father, dad number two, my adopted father, and dad number three, my heavenly father. And it struck me that none of them thought that I was worth fighting for.

None of them wanted to be involved in my life as badly, as desperately as I wanted them to be involved in my life, you know? And to hell with all of them, fuck that. I want to go back in time and tell five-year-old me, stop crying, because you don't need any fuckers who don't need you. You're better than that.

You deserve better than that. Stop smiling. And that'd be such a neat, tidy, ugly place to leave the story. You know, just put a twine bow on that thing and call her done.

Boy, once daddy's love, boy doesn't get daddy's love, boo-hoo, the end. Join the rest of the population, right? But as I was reflecting on it, that poster from my childhood bedroom just didn't fit anymore. Happy birthday.

XOXO, like, how could an alcoholic, abusive man who doesn't have any of his priorities straight take the time to write that and send it to me for my birthday? It just didn't make sense. That doesn't line up. And it was like one of those like little plasticy games with like the ball bearings that you're trying to like get into the holes.

Suddenly I like gave that memory a little bump, and all the marbles just fell into place. You know, it was signed Love George XOXO. It wasn't from dad number one, George. It was from a different George in our life, a George that had been caring for my mom during this whole difficult time.

It was from a George that I didn't call dad yet, but eventually would. About a month later, my parents come over for a visit. And they casually mentioned that, nope, DNA test results came back and there's only a 99.9% chance that that is in fact your dad, dad. And the news is met with like zero fanfare on their heart, right?

None of us are surprised by this whatsoever. It's like a three-year-old who uncovers their eyes and says boo. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. We know you're there.

We saw you the whole time. That evening as they're leaving, I gave my dad, my dad, dad, a hug. And he held me in his arms, and I just stayed there, breathing it in. You know, it was the most meaningful, significant embrace I have ever experienced.

It was literally something I had been waiting my entire fucking life for. I was being held in the arms of a man who loved me so deeply, more deeply than I would ever understand. And that little boy who screamed out, why doesn't my dad love me? He was placated just for a moment.

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This story was kind of hard for me to write, but here it goes. One day I was on Facebook and you know how it says like here's some people you might know, you should be their friend. I looked and you know there was somebody I stood next to at an audition for like three hours. There was somebody who fired me like a few years before her.

And then there was a profile picture of me with my ex-husband. And it was like we were in his car together like leaning in our heads together smiling. I was like who the fuck is like impersonating me or something? And I looked at the name and I thought it was my name, Elisa Marcus at first, but I looked closer and it said Elisa Martin.

And I was like who the fuck is Elisa Martin? Well I clicked and looked at a few of her pictures. She had like a blonde sort of flapper length kind of a bob like I used to have and like kind of very bold eyeglasses like these are wire frames. I used to have bolder frames like I used to have and she had kind of like a penchant for wearing vintage dresses with black tights like I used to do.

And like in one picture she's kind of like looking up into the right like posing against a colorful wall. In another picture it's like a blurry close up of like you know she's just laughing like joy is just beaming out of her face like a drunken picture. And in the next picture she's writing like a mechanical pony like outside of a little drug store that I recognized for my ex-husband's hometown. And he was standing there too.

And I realized who is Elisa Martin she is my ex-husband's new wife. And I'm not really one to internet stock but in this case like I just had to. So I found out that she used to sell antiques and vintage clothing like I used to and that she also worked for the same real tea brokerage that I did but just in a different branch. I found her Instagram and it was sort of like a look at my beautifully curated home type of Instagram.

She does have a beautiful home and it was filled with everything that used to be filled in my home. So there were like these little brass crane figurines that used to be on our coffee table were now on their mantle. And then there was a picture of the ocean that was in their dining room that used to be. I'd actually bought it specifically to go in our bedroom because I thought if we had a pretty enough bedroom that maybe we would have sex again.

I remember one time I had a friend come over I was showing him our place and I said to him as a joke like here's where the magic doesn't happen. I wondered if they had stopped having sex too. And so I read through her post on Instagram about their courtship and their wedding and all this and it kind of reminded me like it was very very easy to fall in love with Randall. Randall's my ex-husband.

Like I still remember the first time I saw him at this bar we had met on mash.com and like this smile that was on his face was like so welcoming and warm and I was like this room feels lighter with you in it. He was very clever. He was hilarious. He was extremely generous and would help a friend in need at any time with anything really if it was in his capacity.

I remember like one of the first gifts he ever gave me was he had gotten into my apartment somehow and like set up on my desk like a new refurbished iMac G3. It kind of has like the clear sides that are colorful. Very pretty. And then when I turned it on on the screen was a note that he had typed out already that said like I want you to have the right tools for your creativity.

And I know half of you are in love with him now. When my mom died the first time I had to leave my dad alone he stayed behind and he took my dad off for dinner and took him to see Madagascar. I still am very thankful for him for being there for me and my dad like that. Something else he was very honest and opinionated which I when we were first dating thought was very refreshingly bold.

There was nothing that could be said about a situation that he wouldn't hold back and I was just like god damn. But finding Elise Martin made me realize he wasn't even honest as he seems. So it's fine that Elise looks just like me and has a name pretty much just like mine and does the same job as I do in the same place practically. And it's fine for Randall to have a type but that's the thing like the crux of the problems of our relationship were about him not finding me physically attractive.

So I was like this shit does not make sense. For example I once asked him like what's my number you know one through ten what's my number and he said with makeup or without and I was like without because I was thinking he was going to say ten either way and he said four and he said but with makeup seven and I was like Randall and he goes do you want me to lie to you like I tell the truth like I will never steer you wrong if you want to know my opinion I'm going to tell you what I actually think I'm not going to lie to you do you want to be with a liar and I thought to myself I mean I guess not like I'd rather be with like a tactless truth teller than a liar I guess yeah um as our relationship went on like just the sex just was not happening I had suggested like how about a romantic weekend like how about some handcuffs or something and he was like no no no and I was just like hey like what's up like why are we not doing sex and he was like I don't really feel like it's fair of you to expect me to be attracted to you when you gain 30 pounds since we met mind you I was like recovering from anorexia at the time and he was also a big guy himself so I don't know but he never missed an opportunity from then on to make like a drag on my looks what I was wearing you know how hard I was working out or not like he would literally stop by the gym and be like I saw you working out and it wasn't hard enough yes I reasoned that he struggled very much with self-image himself I mean he hated himself the shit that he would say about himself is crazy and so he was kind of like sitting on grenades and I was just getting some shrapnel and I just figured you know like we're in this together for life like I can handle it like long enough till he can kind of like grow and change and realize that like I am a beautiful man you know uh one day in my college classes I took an emotional IQ test everybody in the class took it and I scored like very surprisingly low on it because I'm extremely mature and I told him about it and I was kind of looking for like some commiseration and he said like you know that actually makes a lot of sense because you're kind of like embarrassing in like public situations like you misread everybody all the time and like sometimes people are like oh I don't want to be around you and sometimes you're like not funny it's like I don't know and so because of this test and because he said that I was just like I developed sort of a thing where I saw him as like my barometer of the truth of any situation that we were in together so it was like how did this go like how was I was I weird you know and if he said yes it was great and if it's no then I wasn't I was weird uh but as fun as this relationship sounds I started checking out like I started like snorting some Percussets and eating some Oxies and just kind of like numbing myself to the relationship and you know just kind of checking out and then one day he said to me uh I'm moving back at this time he lived in Chicago he's like I'm moving back to Columbus which is where we met Columbus Ohio I was like stricken because I loved my life in Chicago like I I was doing shows I was doing successful shows I had a lot of friends I was having a lot of fun but here was this ultimatum and I thought you know like I don't want to keep him here in this place that he doesn't like like he isn't happy maybe that's why our marriage sucks because he's here for me and I was like I'll I'll move to Columbus with you like even though it means that you know I have to quit my job I have to say goodbye to all my friends I have to cut off all my performance connections I have to cancel all my shows I will do it for you because that's what I said that I would do and then just right after that I was like actually honestly like I kind of feel like he deserves like a different wife than me like I'm on drugs like I'm not home a lot because I'm performing all the time I want to free him up to have a better wife a wife that he's actually physically attracted to a wife that he doesn't think is weird and stupid so I was like I should probably kill myself because it would be so easy I had like an entire software full of Percocet and I was just kind of like thinking of where can I do this where somebody will find me that I don't know and they probably like will be like oh another one and then and then it was at that point that I was just like you know what I'm like gonna go to a mental health facility and so I checked myself in I was like there for a week five stars would recommend for me I would recommend it um results may vary but honestly I got it was an amazing experience I might talk about another time it was awesome and that's what great health insurance can get you um after I checked out Randall let it slip that he had actually emailed every single person we knew including my boss everything about my stay it wasn't just like hey you know uh Elise is in the hospital you know like think of us you know we could really use the support XOXO Randall like that I could tolerate you know but um he showed me the email and it was the worst like it was just like I know we've all seen it like to everyone there like we've all seen the signs like in the ways in which she is a regular and then he was like and her mother had this diagnosis and that diagnosis and that one so you know she's inherited some pretty funky DNA oh my god it was like one other thing that I really liked about him was he was actually an extremely talented writer in this email he was really just like tip in his hat and twirling his cane just really showing off like just relishing this opportunity to like I don't know roast me I guess I looked up in my email again I actually still have that email and it brought me back to that feeling of like when you've been like diminished in like a 1000 word essay to every single person you know it's like very very difficult to redeem yourself in those people's eyes like I just felt like my character assassinated gone like no one will ever take me seriously and then we were all moving back to where they were so we moved back to Columbus and as soon as we did that he said he was done and he was like here are the reasons I've been struggling with my therapist for two years with my feelings of contempt towards you and I was like hmm hot he also was like I would never be with someone that had been in a mental health hospital I don't see that for myself that's not my story I don't want that in my world and thirdly you're not hot and I was like I can't say like couple therapy no no he was done and he said I had a month to get out of the house and he gave me a thousand dollars and he blocked me on his phone his email his social media that was it I maybe talked to him twice since then but yeah just gone and so I I went to LA because I was just like I don't know maybe I should like go far away and then he'll miss me and he'll want me back um but he didn't and then I moved back to Chicago because there was an opportunity there counter surf a little bit more it's like other resources to get apartment and I worked on myself but the thing that was really really difficult to get over was just how like shockingly sudden and like cruel it all was you know like at the end of the day like didn't we have a friendship even like was there not even like a basic respect between friends that we could rely on I mean apparently not it was crazy so after this whole thing like people started coming out of the woodwork and they would say like oh you know I never really liked the way he talked to you or oh yeah he did that one thing I really hated that and I was like why the fuck are you telling me this now like couldn't you have told me like back then you know like even if it would have affected our friendship I think it would have been nice to know that there were people that I respected that I was friends with that didn't approve of the behavior that they saw and that brings us back to Elise Martin the actress who is cast in my role I wondered if she had anybody in her life that would tell her the truth like that and I didn't honestly want to leave it up to Chance so I wrote her a letter and the letter I don't really remember it I typed it out I didn't sign it I put an envelope that I just wrote her name on but the letter essentially said like don't combine bank accounts with this guy don't have kids with this guy and I was like if you've gotten to a point where he's commenting on your looks or your weight or he doesn't like your hobbies or he doesn't support this or that just know that this is like a well-traveled road for him so it's not you it's him and you deserve more so I took the letter to I didn't know where she lives so I just dropped it off at the real estate brokerage I just walked in and they were like I was like can I drop this off for Elise Martin and they're like oh her cubby's just right there if you want to put it in I was like walking past the camera like I feel bad if she was scared by the letter because I I guess that's a question like how did she receive it and I have to imagine like it might have been very scary to get and I feel bad about that alternatively she could just been like oh my god this is from Randall's Crazy X because if he tells her about me like he told me about all of his exes we're all crazy we're crazy but I could handle being crazy for this like I wanted to be the person that if she ever needed to recall the contents of this letter then that would be there for her and maybe she would be better off than I was and I saw it as a very feminist move but in hindsight like really is it like if she didn't look exactly like me and have a name just like me and work way I work and do what I do and have the same ocean picture in her house like would I have bothered to write her a letter and I kind of think like maybe not I don't think I would do it today either you know and the reason is because like at the time I was angry I was angry that I was the one that was left behind and also the one that didn't get to have a shiny new spouse first you know it pissed me off so I was thinking when I was first writing this story like it was gonna be a morality play like I took something negative and then I wrote a letter and I made it positive and I think really what this is is just a story of you know Randall wrote a letter that humiliated me and I returned the favor and you know I got the last word again and I got closer and today I have like an awesome relationship the best relationship I've ever had to be honest and great friends and performing and I'm happy to be in front of you today so thank you listen This is Risk this is Sophie Mae behind me now and we just heard from Alyssa Marcus who also does stand up and Alyssa's improv group mind reader performs in LA every second and fourth Sunday at the pack theater folks the donations you've been sending in that we are so so thankful for and the new patreon sign ups have slowed down a bit in the past week or so and we are nowhere near where we need to get in our big fundraising effort going on all summer to keep the show from potentially going away before the end of the year and I'm not getting when I say that so I had an idea think of something you think we might be able to make happen for you for example you might think I'd pay X number of dollars for Kevin and JC to take me out for a night on the town in New York or I'd pay X amount of dollars for Kevin to go on a day trip sailing with me or hiking or going to the beach or I'd pay X number of dollars for an autographed print of a professionally photographed naked Kevin with shoes dangling from his balls like in that story send in the ideas whatever they are send them in you can email me at Kevin at risk-show.com ideas of things we could make happen that you think you or maybe some other risk fan would be eager to purchase and here's another idea a risk fan who is a therapist wrote in saying she'd be willing to donate a few therapy sessions as an auction item now I haven't discussed the logistics with her yet but I love that idea so maybe you have goods or services or things you can make happen that you think other risk fans would maybe bid for in something like an auction I love the idea of risk fans winning the craft work or services or whatever kind of fun other risk fans could come up with in their efforts to help the show so send those ideas also to Kevin at risk-show.com too and while you're at it send me recordings like this one from risk fan Madeline Erasmus just yesterday I made the decision to go get fast food and I knew it wasn't gonna be good but it was just quick and easy and I wasn't even done with the meal yet before I regretted it and it was like expensive I just felt horrible afterwards and I was like you know who could have used this money risk so the next time you are thinking about getting fast food not that it's always bad to get fast food but maybe the next time you're thinking about getting it just ask yourself do you want to help out your favorite podcast or do you want painful diarrhea I love the show and it means so much to me I've been listening since 2018 hearing people from different backgrounds get to share their lives with all of us whether they're sad funny scary I love the scary stories but the ones who have meant the most to me are people who it might be difficult to tell their story because maybe they were not on the right side of things at first I remember the story about the first time dad who had trouble keeping his temper under control around his newborn that really helped me in the first stages of having my child it is really difficult and it takes a lot to say that all these stories have inspired me to make risks in my own life knowing deep down that my career wasn't right and choosing to turn it around to be a teacher this just made my life so rich and that's why I decided to bump up my patreon subscription to $25 a month again and to also just donate $100 because like J.C. Kessus was saying try to put a dollar amount on what the show means to you it means so much more than $125 I was so moved to hear that thank you so much Madeleine for sending that in remember folks everyone assumes that all the other listeners are going to chip in so maybe we don't need your help in particular yes we need your help in particular someone is willing to be photographed with his shoes dangling from his balls for this so what will you do remember patreon is the main way people support us and also get all our bonus content that's at patreon.com slash risk now unfortunately this week we have only two new patreon members to give shout outs to they are Gretchen Nothouse and Calvin Fan well thank you so so much Gretchen and Calvin and everyone else be like Gretchen and Calvin and if you want to make a one-time donation that's at paypal.me slash risk show and if you'd rather donate some other way I am at kevin at risk-show.com another place I'm at if time is linear is caveat in New York City in the very recent past and I have proof I'm there from this recording that was made back then so here is yours truly what the story we call at the manis one night when I was 15 I went to my very first house party in high school right my very first house party in high school and even more importantly it was also my very first time getting drunk oh my god I will remember the moment that I felt that sort of you know bubbly and buzzing and swirling and whirling sensation and realize oh my god yeah I'm here I'm here I'm here I grabbed a friend and I said I did it I did it I'm drunk and I ran into the bathroom of whoever house that was I had no idea at the time and still don't and I tore off all my well oh down to my underwear I tore off all my clothes except for my underwear and then I ran to this poor family's refrigerator and I whipped it open and I just grabbed the first jar I saw in there and then I held it aloft like it was a ball you know that everyone was gonna have to chase around and I yelled get the manis and started tearing around the party and everyone just lit up everyone's like yeah started chasing me trying to get the manis and then I like tore up the stairs to the balcony that was over the living room still holding the manis aloft and screaming and yelling and then I decided to flip over the balcony for a 15-foot drop onto the couch in the living room and suddenly everyone was horrified until I jumped up again and I was like I'm pretty fuck off and I don't care everyone was so thrilled that I had not paralyzed myself and they loved my new nickname I've just given myself and every few years now on Facebook someone else will message me and say gosh I can't get out of my head I still remember that night watching you running around in your underwear and falling and like we thought you were paralyzed and the whole time you were just screaming about manis and I just really appreciate that it has made such an impression on people's face some people still call me Freddy fuck off but by the time I was 30 and entered into therapy for the first time I started calling that character Mr. Hyde if you don't know that story where that name comes from comes from where there's a highly respectable doctor named Dr.

Jekyll who makes a potion that he thinks might help bring about his most liberated and dynamic self and he drinks the potion and whoa lo and behold it actually makes him a wild man that he calls Mr. Hyde that just starts wrecking havoc all over the place and it's just unleashed from him and it causes so many problems in Dr. Jekyll's life but somehow Dr. Jekyll just can't put down that bottle.

Now the bottle I'd chosen that night was a very cheap wine called Reoniti you know on the television commercials the suburban housewives would say Reoniti on eyes that's nice and I agreed with the housewives because man what that night did for my reputation on Monday when I got to school everyone was talking about how I behaved at the first cast party for our spring musical production of by by birdie because it was so dramatically different from how I behaved throughout the three month rehearsal process the theater director was this brilliant and commanding woman and I was pretty terrified of her I've been so shy because I thought she was a genius and I'll never forget that day that Monday running into her in an empty hallway at school and her saying hello um I heard that Kevin might have a bit of an alter ego now a certain Freddy fuck off and she kind of sort of seemed impressed you know that I'd come out of my shell because this was a subversively kooky production of by by birdie that she'd put together and the whole idea of this production of by by birdie was be as freaky as you want to be because our Conrad birdie was not Elvis Presley it was David Bowie right we went through gallons of manic panic hair dye and Queen Helene styling gel and all the kids in the chorus chose the most colorful characters they could think of to emulate their characters on so boy George and Cindy Lauper and Madonna and there was even a lot of tension about too many people wanting to be Prince but I was cast as a character just a kid named Freddy who had just one line that was so uninteresting I don't remember what it was and I spent the entire three months of those rehearsals barely speaking to anyone in the cast see I've grown up obsessed with Broadway musicals I spent so much time in my basement in my own universe pretending to be this larger than life extrovert you know just wowing and dazzling everyone with my spectacular stage presence so in freshman year of high school I'm finally in my very first musical and I choked I was just worried that oh my god what if it turns out that I'm not as special as I spent all those years dreaming in the basement I could be until the night of the cast party because that's when the wildest side of me started bursting out of my scenes and then I got crazier at every cast party right one night I was back in my underwear dancing on top of some cars out on this suburban street and then I ran back into the house where the party was happening and at one point I'm talking to a circle of friends and I noticed that holy shit the song on the stereo ended at the same time that everyone in the entire party seemed to have come to a pause in their conversations and I said oh my god everyone it's a universal law at which point I turned around and saw the two police officers who were shutting down the party the next year was sophomore year well I actually ignored the instructions for the auditions for the musical in sophomore year because I wanted to create my very own piece to perform I still terrified of a theater director but I walked into that audition with a boombox and trying to focus on channeling the unconstrainable zeal of Freddy fuck off as much as possible so I hit play on that boombox and the narrator me starts telling the story of a well-behaved guy no one in particular who one day becomes a party animal named Freddy and while the story was being told on the boombox I was acting it all out in pantomime physical comedy that just got more and more spastic and crazy more and more gymnastic I mean I was really going out of my mind in front of these people until I jumped off a table and landed on my head nearly paralyzing myself once again but somehow I was okay and I jumped up and I took one look at the jaw-dropping expressions on the theater director and all of her assistants and I just said thank you very much and walked out feeling certain that I was going to get a lead role now that year the partying among the theater kids started before the show was even cast and I figured you know Freddy better take things up a notch in that realm too so the first party of sophomore year the underwear came off as well Freddy went full frontal only this time the bit was not me running around like a chicken with head cut off it was me acting very respectable and cultivated walking around a cocktail party only I just happened to be nude and one of my friends in the theater program was a dwarf actually and he got the mind that everyone remembered the most and cracked everyone up the most he said Freddy you're hung like a gerbil and at that point I realized that Freddy's mission that night was to inform everyone in the party I would go oh let me make it clear I'm a grower not a shower the Monday after that when I got home from school my mom stopped me as I was walking in the back door and she did not look happy she said sit down I want to talk to you so we sat down at the kitchen table and mom pushed toward me a Polaroid picture that had a lot of kids in it who were clearly identifiable as members of the theater program that I was in and they were at a party and one figure is in the photograph but fortunately it's cropped the framing doesn't get his face his head it cuts off at the neck but you could see the rest of him you could see all of the rest of him because he was completely nude and my mom said to me that's you isn't it and just like when the cops came for Dr. Jekyll I said no I have no idea who that is and she said okay she just pretended to believe me and that was that I say pretended because we both knew that no other male in the theater company was likely to have bright flaming red pubic hair well the next day the casting of the spring musical was announced and there was two sheets of paper on the theater director's door of her office we were all so excited I got down there and I saw the list of who had been cast and I was up near the top I had been cast as one of the leads and there was also a list next to that of the theater director wanted to have individual meetings with each of us after school and she had listed the times she wanted to see us well when I sat down in her office after school that day I was surprised that she had a kind of a solemn look on her face and she said Freddy I'm thrilled to be giving you a role in God spell this year it's been inspiring to see you coming out of your shell you know like exploring different sides of yourself she said to be honest I have rarely seen such an amazing audition and I wanted to strangle you when you almost gave me a heart attack when your head hit that floor I froze I could feel my face starting to go red and I was like good news bad news but then she said so I just want you to remember life is about learning how to balance these different sides of ourselves you know the more we grow hopefully the more we learn not to get too carried away with any one side that's why I want you to really think about the name that I'm giving to your character in the play this year and she handed me a script with my parts highlighted and I opened it up and there was the name Kevin thank you very much to see everything for you and me last fall if only you know it and it's all just waiting for you you're alive so come on and show it yeah we got a lot of it this is Raskit this is Jesse Pearson from the 1963 movie version of bye bye birdie behind me now and we just heard from yours truly you know I thought it would be interesting to finally tell that story now that I've sobered up and started eating healthy and exercising started meditating and lost almost 50 pounds this year but most importantly I've been doing the work as they say that is every morning I spend at least a half hour on well-being practices like self-compassion journaling exercises guided meditations hypnotherapy breathing and stretching exercises even creativity breaks and this work has been so life-changing for me so far this year and I'm so intent on going further into it that I decided to invite other folks on the path so we can support each other on the journey I'm not a licensed therapist but I do feel I can create a friendly supportive workshop got a crying cat behind me now he doesn't like when I'm up late working but I have been doing a lot of brainstorming and development on a new workshop called practice specifically the practice of healing and growing to nurture your own well-being if you're interested in learning more email me at Kevin at risk-show.com we'll get the first one happening very soon so I look forward to hearing from you now on Thursday we're re-running one of the all-time classic risk stories spitting in the face of the devil by Bob Brader it is a truly jaw-dropping story and every time I hear it I have new insights and feelings and I'm still shocked all over again by all the twists and turns in it as you may know many therapists are fans of risk and we've always been interested in recording conversations with therapists about how they feel about risk stories so on Thursday you'll hear Bob Brader with spitting in the face of the devil on the free feed but over on Patreon you'll hear an amazingly insightful conversation between myself Bob and drama and movement therapist Mariana Voigt and when I have someone who I talk to and they start talking to me about their experiences and you know I don't know how to get rid of this anger or whatever my first thing to say is write about it put it down on paper because it does something and I I mean maybe you know better than I do what the term is or what is actually happening when you do that but something does happen and it's it's amazing to me yeah I was thinking throughout listening to the story as well about what a survival mechanism creativity is I mean from the spring fling to the the imitations to going to NYU that's something that I see over and over again and when you say I might know some psychological terms about what's happening there I actually think the artistic terms might be better because it's catharsis I suppose and it's transformation I don't know I've seen that with some kids like I'm thinking of one kid in particular who was a drummer and I think if he well I'm not sure if he kind of made it through the other side because I stopped working with him when he was about 14 but I was like if anything's gonna get him through it's the drumming it's this kind of fascinating content you can only get from risk and it's all coming later this week next week Vicki Cooperman gets a massage that becomes a mystery wrapped in an enigma but that's next week folks today's the day take a risk on risk we have seen a juicy hot dog then we've actually put it in our mouth the site of a juicy hot dog has become juicy hot dogs I've never been close proximity to a cat and then