This Sunday, FaceTime. New York City's mayor-elect, the 34-year-old Democratic socialist, comes to Washington and meets with President Trump in the Oval Office. Some of his ideas really are the same ideas that I have. We focus on affordability.
We focus on the cost of living crisis. I'll speak exclusively with Mayor-elect Zoran Mamdani. Plus, political pressure. The yeas are 427.
The nays are 1. Congress overwhelmingly votes to release the Epstein files as concerns grow over the economy and the White House rolls back tariffs on dozens of food products. The thing that I'd ask the American people is a little bit of patience. I'll talk to Treasury Secretary Scott Besson.
And on lawful orders, President Trump lashes out at Democratic lawmakers calling on them to be arrested after they encouraged U.S. service members to refuse illegal orders. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
You can refuse illegal orders. Every single order that is given to this United States military by this commander in chief and through this chain of command, through the secretary of war, is lawful. This is perhaps the most reckless and irresponsible thing that he has done all Congress. Are the escalating attacks putting members of Congress at risk?
I'll talk to Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson, Jonathan Martin of Politico, Republican strategist Sarah Fagan, and former Homeland Security secretary Jay Johnson. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker. Good Sunday morning. After months of trading barbs throughout the New York City mayoral campaign, President Donald Trump and mayor-elect Zoran Mamdani finally met face to face in the Oval Office this week.
In a stunning turnaround, Mr. Trump, a native New Yorker, emphasizing what he has in common with the 34-year-old Democratic socialist. You know, we had some interesting conversation and some of his ideas really are the same ideas that I have. I feel very confident that he could do a very good job.
I think I think he's going to be I think he is going to surprise some conservative people, actually. My exclusive interview with mayor-elect Mamdani is coming up in just a moment. It all comes amid a renewed focus on affordability nationwide, with the Trump administration rolling back tariffs on over 200 food products and defending their economic policies. We're also making incredible strides to make America affordable again.
That's a new word that they're using. Affordability. Even though we've made incredible progress, we understand that there's a lot more work to do. And the thing that I'd ask for the American people is a little bit of patience.
And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Besson. Secretary Besson, welcome back to Meet the Press. It's good to be with you today. It's great to have you here in person.
Thank you for being here. I want to start right there on the discussion of affordability. You just heard Vice President J.D. Vance ask people to have, quote, a little bit of patience with the administration.
Let me ask you, Mr. Secretary, how long do Americans need to be patient? How long do they have to wait for the cost of living to come down? Well, Kristen, in March of 2024, I wrote a piece and I talked about the three I's that were killing Americans.
Immigration, interest rates and inflation. The president's closed the border and the mass immigration is gone. And that was putting a lot of the immigration was putting upward pressure on housing, downward pressure on wages. Interest rates are down.
And now we are starting to see the affordability. The prices get better. We had a very big October for home sales. Energy prices, gasoline, gasoline is down.
We saw, we believe, health care is going to come down. We will see an announcement this coming week on that. And so across the board, prices are starting to come down. We're having Thanksgiving week.
This will be the lowest cost for Thanksgiving dinner in four years. Turkey prices are down 16 percent. And yet some prices are going up. Of course, we have seen prices increasing on staples like coffee, bananas, bacon.
Inflation has gone up. It's 3 percent now, up from 2 percent in April when the tariffs were imposed. No, no, no, no, no, no. They weren't.
So inflation hasn't gone up. And Kristen, the one thing that we're not going to do is do what the Biden administration did and tell the American people they don't know how they feel. They are traumatized. And over the Biden inflation, we have slowed inflation and we are working very hard to bring it down.
Kristen, I can tell you that the Council of Economic Advisors has a study. You know, the best way to bring your inflation rate down? Move from a blue state to a red state. Blue state inflation is half a percent higher.
And that is because they don't deregulate. They keep prices up. Energy is higher. Just according to the consumer prices, inflation was at 2.3 percent back in April and September 3 percent.
But let me ask you about tariffs, because there's this big announcement on tariffs. Since you were last on this program, the administration announced it was rolling back tariffs on more than 200 food products. You have said recently that you think tariffs help consumers. If tariffs help consumers, why is the administration rolling them back?
Well, first, let's focus, if you will, at the data that imported goods, the inflation has actually been flat. Inflation is up because of the service economy and services. So that has nothing to do with tariffs. And many of the food items where the inflation is coming down, that USTR has been working very hard on trade deals.
And the trade deals that have been in the works for six or eight months coincide with many Latin American, Central American countries where the foodstuffs you just named come from. Well, and banana prices are up almost 7 percent. Coffee prices up nearly 19 percent. Isn't the fact that you're rolling back tariffs an admission that ultimately they do drive up prices for consumers?
Kristen, how much does your arm weigh? Exactly. But you know how much you weigh. You get on the scale every morning.
Inflation is a composite number and we look at everything. So we are trying. We try to push down the things we can control. And as I said, that we are working on the energy prices are down and everything flows from that.
And I think we're going to see these other prices come down. And again, many of these goods were part of trade deals with countries that have been in the works for months. Very quickly, come down in a matter of weeks, months, weeks or months. Prices will come down in weeks or months.
Some are going to come down in weeks. Some are going to come down in months. We just had the in terms of affordability. We just had the best month in the housing market due to affordability, due to increased supply in October.
Best October in three years. Best month since February. Let me ask you big picture, Mr. Secretary.
You said earlier this month, I'm going to quote you, quote, I think there are sectors of the economy that are in a recession. Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council, said, quote, We're starting to see pockets of the economy that look like they might be in a recession. Which parts of the economy do you believe have dipped into a recession? Well, clearly, housing has been struggling and the interest rate sensitive sectors have been in a recession.
And the other thing that was not helpful, Kristen, was this longest government shutdown in history. It was one point five percent hit to GDP. The 9,500 flights canceled. And the Democrats didn't care that they hurt the American economy.
And anything to stop Donald Trump. Well, big picture is the country at risk, the entire country at risk of being in a recession. No, I am very confident about twenty twenty six, because what we are going to see is the president has done peace deals, tax deals and trade deals, but one big beautiful bill. And to go back to affordability, affordability has two components.
So it's price of goods and real incomes. So under the one big beautiful bill, especially for working Americans, no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security, auto deductibility, auto deductibility and loans for American cars. That's all kicking in. Americans have not changed their withholdings.
So we're going to see substantial, substantial refunds to working families in the first quarter of twenty twenty six. Americans will change their withholding and they will get an increase in real income. The trade deals that we've done. I was just in my hometown, Charleston, South Carolina.
Boeing is expanding their dreamliner plant. A thousand new jobs. And I think we're going to see these plant openings every week. I am very, very optimistic on twenty twenty six.
We have set the table for a very strong, non-inflationary growth economy. OK, let me ask you about the big news on the world stage. You just talked about the president's peace deals. Let's talk about Ukraine.
U.S. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Ukrainian officials who I've spoken to say the peace plan for Russia and Ukraine as written only benefits Russia. Let me ask you simply, Mr.
Secretary, was this twenty eight point plan written by Russia? I have no information on that, Kristen. But I can tell you, I am the highest ranking U.S. official to have visited Ukraine.
I went last February and when I went last February, I went with an economic cooperation agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine. President Zelensky pushed back against it. The same people you're just talking about there pushed back against it.
Mainstream media pushed back against it. You that the Democrats kept the government shut down and Ezra Klein in the New York Times took the mask off. He said this wasn't about health care. This was about stopping totalitarianism.
The Democrats haven't been able to stop President Trump in the courts. They haven't been able to stop him in the media. So they had to harm the American people. 1.5 percent hit the GDP, $11 billion permanent hit.
They don't care. So I believe that Senate Democrats, if Senate Democrats close the government again, that Senate Republicans should immediately abrogate the filibuster. You should ask Senator Klobuchar whether she will adhere to the filibuster and whether she will close the government again. Yes or no, though, do you acknowledge at this point, you don't have the votes right now to do that?
We will see. We can have them on January 3rd when we see this bad Democratic behavior. All right. Secretary Gessen, thank you so much for being here and for the robust conversation.
We really appreciate it. Good to see you. Covered a lot of ground. When we come back, my interview with New York City Mayor Elect, Zoran Mamdani.
Welcome back on Saturday. I sat down with New York City Mayor Elect, Zoran Mamdani. I started off by asking him about that surprising Oval Office meeting where President Trump praised him after months of criticism. Were you surprised by the warm welcome that you got?
You know, I was looking forward to having a meeting with the president to speak about the needs of the 8.5 million people who call the same city we love home and to speak, frankly, about the affordability crisis that is pushing so many of them out of those five boroughs. And I found in the meeting that I had with the president, a productive one, and a meeting that came back again and again to the central themes of the campaign that we ran, the cost of housing, cost of childcare, the cost of groceries, the cost of utilities. And it showed that this is an opportunity to now start to deliver so that people can do more than just aspire to struggle in New York City, but actually to be able to live there. But did you expect it to be so chummy?
What was going through your head when you were standing there? You know, I thought again and again about what it would mean for New Yorkers if we could establish a productive relationship that would focus on the issues that those New Yorkers stay up late at night thinking about. Because so often in our politics, we try and tell people what they should be worried about, what they should be concerned about. When you actually ask New Yorkers and you listen to them, you hear it come back to the issues that animated not just the conversation the president and I had with the press after our meeting, but frankly, in the meeting itself.
It was a conversation where we spoke about the need to deliver on this agenda. And I appreciated that when the president, when we had that meeting, it wasn't just in the Oval Office. He also took me into the cabinet room and there we were looking at portraits of presidents of years gone by. And we admired a portrait of FDR.
And in many ways, when I think about the candidacy that we've put forward, it looks to FDR LaGuardia as the greatest mayor in New York City history. You can't tell the story of LaGuardia without telling the story of FDR and the story of a relationship with the federal government that finally delivered at the scale of the crisis it was facing. Well, prior to your meeting, I don't have to tell you this. President Trump repeatedly threatened to cut off federal funding to New York if you won.
The president seemed to back away from that yesterday, though, in his public comments in that joint news conference that you all did. He said, I don't think that's going to happen. I expect to be helping him, not hurting him. Do you believe him when he says that?
No, I believe the president in the conversation that we had. And I will continue to make the case both to the president and to the country at large about the needs of New Yorkers. Because what I found, frankly, is that New Yorkers have grown tired of being asked to believe in a system that has delivered very little for them. They're tired of a politics that expects everything from them while delivering little.
And what they want now is a politics that can see the scale of the crisis in front of it and actually start to work together to deliver on that. You know, you ran a campaign, though, saying that President Trump had not delivered on his promise of affordability. Did anything that happened in that meeting make you think, yes, he can deliver on that promise for Americans For New Yorkers? Well, I spoke to the president about the fact that while our campaign technically began on October 23rd last year, for many people, they became aware of it after the president won his election.
And when I went out and spoke to New Yorkers asking them who they vote for and why in two neighborhoods that swung most significantly towards the president. This was Fordham Road in the Bronx, Hillside Avenue in Queens. And I shared with the president that when I asked those New Yorkers why did they vote for the president? They told me again and again, it was cost of living, cost of living, cost of living.
And when the president and I were speaking, we were speaking about what is preventing from delivering on that affordability agenda. Sometimes it's a lack of taking on the broken system that we have. And I spoke about in New York City, for example, zoning regulations. We spoke about ULERP.
This is a process by which you either approve or deny zoning changes that are made in New York City. We spoke about the need to change so many of those situations such that a developer doesn't tell you the thing more expensive than labor or materials is waiting. And we also spoke about the importance of understanding what it is that hurts New Yorkers in their pockets. It's their rent.
It's their childcare. It's their utilities. And it's their childcare. Because the childcare I say twice because it is the second highest cost after housing, $22,500 a year for a single child.
Well, let me ask you about the other threat that we heard from President Trump to send troops to New York City to address issues of crime and immigration. We've seen him do this in other major cities. Did you get any assurances in your meeting, Mayor-elect Mondani, that President Trump will not send troops into New York? I told the president that the cornerstone of an affordability agenda is public safety and that it is critically important to me.
And for all that has been said and all that has been spoken about, the tens of millions of dollars looking to make New Yorkers fearful of that question, the truth of it is, in fact, that I'm looking forward to working with the NYPD to deliver on that. And I shared with the president that my decision to retain Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch is in large part a recognition of the fact that in her time leading the NYPD, she has driven down crime across the five boroughs while starting to uproot corruption that was endemic in the top echelons of that department under Mayor Adams. And I'm going to follow up with you on your decision to keep Commissioner Tisch. But to this core question that I think so many New Yorkers are curious to know the answer to.
What did President Trump say to you? Did he assure you he will not send troops into New York? He told me that he cared deeply about public safety. I said I cared deeply about the same thing.
What I told him is that what separates New York City from anywhere else in the country is we have the NYPD. And I trust the NYPD to deliver public safety. And to me, that is something that I know that they can do, that they have done, and they will continue to do under my leadership. So he didn't rule it out in your meeting.
I made it very clear. What we wanted to do was deliver public safety and affordability. And the NYPD would be the ones to do so. In that press conference with President Trump, a reporter asked you whether you believe that President Trump is in fact a fascist, a word that you've used in the past.
You were about to answer it. Then President Trump sort of jumped in and he said, quote, that's okay, you can just say yes. It's easier than explaining it. So, Mr.
Mayor-elect, just to be very clear, do you think that President Trump is a fascist? And after President Trump said that, I said yes. So you do. And that's something I said in the past.
I say it today. And I think what I appreciated about the conversation that I had with the president was that we were not shy about the places of disagreement about the politics that has brought us to this moment. And we also wanted to focus on what it could look like to deliver on a shared analysis of the affordability crisis for New Yorkers. You've also said in the past that President Trump has engaged in a, quote, attack on our democracy.
You've called him a despot. Do you still believe President Trump is a threat to the democracy? Everything that I've said in the past, I continue to believe. And that's the thing that I think is important in our politics is that we don't shy away from where we have disagreement.
So we understand what it is that brings us to that table. Because I'm not coming into the Oval Office to make a point or make a stand. I'm coming here to deliver for New Yorkers. And a few weeks ago, I was asked by a reporter three words to describe myself.
I said New York City. And that's what animated that conversation. How do we deliver for the people of New York City? You have said that you want to raise $9 billion in new taxes, increasing taxes on the wealthy, on businesses, in order to fund your key policies like universal childcare podcast from NBC News.
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Visit NBCNews.com/Xfinity for full offer terms and details. Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press.
Thanks. Great to be on again. It is great to have you here in person. Thanks so much for being here.
I want to start off with what I was discussing with Secretary Bessant, those Democratic senators, Congress people who recorded that video telling members of the military, the intelligence community that they can refuse orders to violate the law. The president called this seditious behavior punishable by death. I want to play a little bit of what Speaker Johnson had to say about this. Take a listen.
Everybody knows that was wildly inappropriate. It is very dangerous. You have leading members of Congress telling troops to disobey orders. I think that's unprecedented in American history.
Secretary Bessant just said this was a complete mistake. They should retract it. What do you make of that? Should they retract it?
Is it dangerous, as the speaker said? Well, what is dangerous is not restating what is in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which says that our troops cannot follow unlawful orders very clearly. What is dangerous is the President of the United States threatening these members of Congress with death, literally saying that they should be executed. As Mark Kelly said, he is someone who has flown a plane that had a missile nearly on that plane.
He has taken in anti-aircraft fire. He has launched into space into orbit on behalf of his country. And he never thought that a President of the United States would try to execute him or to kill people. This is not at all a game.
My dear friend, Melissa Hortman, the former Speaker of the House and her husband were killed in cold blood with someone who was engaging in political violence. That was the shooter. Or my other friends there took, between them, a husband and wife, 17 shots. Or what happened to Charlie Kirk, that assassination.
Members of Congress, threats have gone from 1,600 to over 14,000 in just a few years. And that is every year. That's what we're dealing with right now. I hear what you're saying about the horrific acts of political violence, Senator.
I wonder, do you know what the specific illegal acts are that your Democratic colleagues were referring to there? Well, it's very clear in this code for the military that you cannot follow unlawful orders. And, you know, that would be, I'll just use an example. Some of the judges have now found in certain cities that it is not legal to send in the National Guard.
And those National Guard members have come home. Some of them are still there. But if they are a commander were to tell them, hey, go out on the streets and do this and that, that's not following the order that is in law. So I just use that example.
I'm sure my colleagues would have others. But the key is, this has been a longtime tenet of the American military. And it is very clearly right there. And that is all our colleagues were saying.
And they have every right to say it. They have served our country bravely. They know what they're talking about. And then this president's answer was to basically tell them he retweeted someone else saying they should be hanged.
Let me ask you about another topic that got a lot of attention. Started the week, a Congress overwhelmingly voting to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. The president signed the bill this week. Do you have faith that the Justice Department will follow through and, in fact, release all of the Epstein files, Senator?
I don't know how the Congress could be clear on this, Kristen. The Congress, Democrats and Republicans, nearly unanimously said release these. And right now, Pam Bondi has suddenly started a new investigation. There is something in that law that says if there are pending criminal investigations, that there would be an exception.
Except it says that it has to be narrowly tailored. And they cannot use the excuse, this is a second clause, that this would be politically embarrassing or hurt someone politically. That can't be their motivation for doing it. So if she does this, if she refuses to release all these Epstein files, yeah, this will be against the spirit and the words in that law.
You also have the fact that Secretary Bessent has yet to release the Treasury files. And I always said as a former prosecutor, follow the money. And you can follow that money of how this was funded in international sex trafficking ring. That's why the House is subpoenaing records from the banks.
And that's why Senator Wyden and Senate Democrats are focused on let's get the records from the Treasury Department. All right, let's turn to the big news overseas now. This discussion about a potential 28-point peace plan between Russia and Ukraine. The proposal includes Ukraine ceding large swaths of its territory to Russia in exchange for security guarantees that Ukraine is quite skeptical of, among other concessions.
Do you believe that President Zelensky should accept this peace plan? I don't believe that this is a pro-Ukraine peace plan. Compromise is our compromises. But what the president has put out here is a plan that is very favorable to Russia.
I was just in Rome with Ukrainian kids meeting with the pope just on Friday. And those kids, when you hear their stories, the heinous crimes that have been committed, thousands of kids kidnapped, brought to Russia, taken away from their homeland. You've got maternity wards bombed, apartment buildings bombed, just an invasion of a sovereign nation. So that is why any peace agreement has to have buy-in from the Ukrainians as well as the Europeans.
Because the Ukrainians have the one that have shed the blood for not just their own homeland, but for the rest of NATO and the rest of Europe. And that's why this plan, which basically says, you know, you're going to be able to have more territory than you even have now, Russia. That's what it says. There is no set plan for a peacekeeping force.
There is no accountability for any war crimes. That's what they put forth. And I am glad to hear some of my Republican colleagues, like Senator Rounds, pushing back. Very quickly, on the issue of health care, Democrats want to see the Obamacare tax subsidies extended.
That was at the center of the fight over the government shutdown, the longest in U.S. history. Do you believe those tax credits are going to be passed, or do you think this is a battle that's going to be waged at the ballot box, quite frankly, Senator? I would say to the people of this country on these plans that are seeing a doubling, tripling of their premiums, 75% of them in red states.
And I say to Secretary Bessant, look at what these people are going through right now. So, number one, the president refused to negotiate. He still has an opportunity to do that. And number two, he used basically hungry people and air travelers as pawns in his game.
But the third thing is, we are going to get this done, Kristen. We're either going to get it done by forcing votes or by putting it on legislation, or we're going to march into the midterms against their resistance and win. This will get done. All right, we'll be watching closely.
Senator Klobuchar, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. When we come back, President Trump defends the Saudi crown prince over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Our Meet the Press minute is next.
Welcome back. President Trump welcomed Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the White House this week, embracing the crown prince's claim of innocence in the 2018 assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, despite the CIA concluding during Mr. Trump's first term that the Saudi leader approved the killing. Years before becoming Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, then a senator from Florida, joined Meet the Press and called for a swift and forceful U.S.
response to Khashoggi's killing. If in fact he was lured into a diplomatic facility, murdered, his body chopped up, and that they sent a group of people down there to carry this out, that would be an outrage. It would be an atrocity, and there would be a swift response, certainly from Congress. Our moral credibility, our ability to call Putin a murderer because he is, our ability to call Assad a murderer because he is, our ability to confront Maduro in Venezuela or any of these other human rights atrocities like what we see in China, all of that is undermined and compromised if we somehow decide that because an ally who's important did that, And so we have these rules in place that I think almost anyone in the chain of command understands that it has to be patently illegal or manifestly illegal in order to be required and permitted to disobey it.
Now, what the six said is that sedition, of course not. The risk that is created, obviously, by linking what they said to the death penalty heightens the personal physical risk around them. And President Trump ought to know that. Sarah, how do you see this unfolding?
Is this something that could stick? Because Republicans will be talking about affordability as we've been discussing, but instead they've been on defense trying to explain these comments. And again, the fiery comments from Secretary Basz. Yeah, I mean, look, I think a lot of times when you get into these process arguments related to legal issues, international, they don't translate always to the politics.
And so what you would have to, you'd have to see some action actually taken as opposed to just words before I think that this had any kind of real impact in the body politic of, you know, elections and so forth. Halle, we're talking about what's legal and what's not. The big issue that started the week was this near unanimous vote by Congress to release the Epstein files. The question is, will the Justice Department actually do it?
What are you watching for? You heard Senator Klobuchar. Yeah, that's right. And I just talked to a number of these survivors of Epstein abuse over the course of the last many months.
And I can tell you a couple of things that they're looking for and that they're very anxious about. Again, survivors, not a monolith here. But when you look at the release of files at the DOJ, now on the clock for real deep concern that there will be a significant number of redactions or a significant number of files that are withheld because of this active investigation that the DOJ is conducting now at the request of President Trump with the direction of him a couple of weeks ago. That's a big concern.
You know, I spoke with one survivor who said this discussion on signing the bill, the president calling it a hoax, etc. She said, I want him to see the truth on our faces. This is important for them that they are that they can feel validated in so many ways and that they can feel like their story is being heard. The other thing I'll just say, real anger that the president has not ruled out leniency for Ghislaine Maxwell.
That is separate and apart from the files, but that is a massive point of contention that you're getting again. I'm glad you bring that up. Your interviews with the survivors have been so extraordinary. Halleigh, J-Mart, pick up on that point, because I think the question everyone has, are we starting to see what is emblematic of a broader rift between Trump and the MAGA base and potentially other Republicans who may be starting to see him as a lame duck?
Yeah, it's like you're driving your car and a rock catches your windshield and there's a small little crack in your windshield. You can barely make it out. Well, I think if you look hard enough, if you squint just right in the sun catching the glass, you can see now that crack in the shield that is Trump's challenge with his own base. And like that crack in your windshield, guess what?
It only goes one direction. It's only going to get worse. And I think that that's the challenge for Trump going forward is every day that goes by, he becomes closer and closer to being in a lame duck. And Republicans on Capitol Hill understand he's looking out for himself, not them.
And I think that's the fundamental challenge going ahead with Trump and the GOP. You saw it Friday in that meeting with Mamdani. This is a Trump party, not the Republican Party. And what he said undercut the party's predictive midterms because he's focused on the Trump legacy, not his party's legacy.
All right, guys, thank you so much for being here. Great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching.
Have a very happy Thanksgiving. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. He was a young Marine. She didn't care about convention.
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