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This Sunday, Ambush, an Afghan national who served alongside US forces in Afghanistan, shoots two national guard members near the White House. One has died, the other is fighting for his life. It was a crime against our entire nation. It was a crime against humanity.
We will do everything in our power to seek the death penalty against that monster. As President Trump vows to crack down on who enters the country? If they can't love our country, we don't want them. I'll talk to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota.
Plus, Shane Reaction. The Pentagon says it will investigate Democratic Senator Mark Kelly from his conduct after he and fellow Democratic lawmakers encouraged US military members to refuse illegal orders. Every member of the military took his loyalty to the Constitution, not to a person. I'll talk to Senator Kelly and, case dismissed, the criminal cases against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Leticia James were thrown out after a judge ruled the prosecutor who brought the charges with unlawfully serving in her role.
I know, the Donald Trump will probably come after me again, and my attitude is going to be the same. I'm innocent. Joining me for insight and analysis are Susan Glasser, staff writer for the New Yorker, former Democratic congresswoman Val Denings, and Mike Dubkeep, former Trump White House communications director. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
Good morning. President Trump is escalating his immigration crackdown, vowing to permanently pause migration from what he calls Third World countries. It comes after this week's ambush attack on two national guard members just blocks away from the White House, leaving one dead and the other still fighting for his life. The troops stationed in the nation's capital as part of Mr.
Trump's federal military deployment. The shooting suspect worked alongside US troops in Afghanistan, then came to the United States after America's chaotic withdrawal in 2021. This suspect was granted asylum by the Trump administration in April of this year. President Trump is now ordering all green card holders from what his administration has deemed countries of concern to be re-examined.
He went cuckoo. I mean, he went nuts, and that happens too. It happens too often with these people. You see him?
But look, this is how they come in. This is how they're standing on top of each other, and that's an airplane. There was no vetting or anything. They came in and unread it.
And we have a lot of others in this country. We're going to get them out. But they go cuckoo. Something happens soon.
And joining now is Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Secretary Noem, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you, Kristin. I appreciate you inviting me on.
Thank you so much for being here at the conclusion of just a devastating week. I do want to start with the investigation into the attack on those two guards members. What is the latest you can tell us about the attack, the suspect, Ramanula Lockenwall, and what you have learned about the mode of Madam Secretary? Well, we know that this individual came into the country under Operation Allies Welcome and during the Biden administration and that disastrous withdrawal that we all watched unfold in 2021.
He's been in this country and was in the Washington state area. We do know that we're talking to his contacts and going through information, continuing to gather that as we go forward. But we're going to use every tool that are disposable to bring him to justice and make him pay for what he has done, not just to America, but how he's devastated these families and taken the lives of the life of one of our soldiers and devastatingly injured another one that we're still praying for each and every day. I just, my heart goes out to Andrew and Sarah's families.
I can't imagine what they're going through. And President Trump is absolutely dedicated to making sure that he's bringing this individual to justice and anyone that he would have talked to, anyone that he knows that would have known about this plan and this attack, he will absolutely bring in and there will be consequences and they will pay. Yeah, and Dr. Dolan's is to the family of the guards member who did pass.
I do want to go back to this question, Madam Secretary. Do you know what the motive was at this point? Do you believe the suspect acted alone? You know, we're still going through all of that information and I'll let the FBI and DOJ reveal new information, but I will say we believe he was radicalized since he's been here in this country.
We do believe it was through connections in his home community and state and we're going to continue to talk to those who interacted with him, who were his family members to talk to them so far. We've had some participation, but anyone who has information on this needs to know that we will be coming after you and we will bring you to justice. We absolutely will persecute you because we do know that we will never allow this to continue to happen in our country, allow individuals who came to our country that were unvetted by Joe Biden, allowed to run free and lose. We are going to bring them to justice and make sure that they're returned out of this country if they aren't here for the purposes of being an American.
I want to follow up with him. You say something very notable. You say he was radicalized here. This suspect we should note was a member of the CIA train strike force according to former intelligence and military officials.
He would have undergone extensive vetting during his tenure there and afterwards it is worth noting citizenship and immigration services and agency which is a part of DHS approved the suspects asylum application in April of this year. Why did the Trump administration grant the suspect asylum in April? Did you know then that he was moving toward radicalization? Well, Kristin, you need to remember that when this abandonment of the Afghanistan happened, the Biden administration put people on airplanes, brought them to the United States without vetting them.
They brought them into our country and then said they would vet them afterwards and at that time to do a good job of vetting people, you need to have cooperation of that government that is from their country. You have to have a stable government that will give you information, contacts, background information and biometrics that you may need to identify that individual, their dates of service. All of that vetting information was collected by Joe Biden's administration that was used in the process. So President Trump, thankfully, has completely changed that.
We are now using all social media content. We're going after what they have been doing with their contacts, their biometric data information we are collecting. Now, when we've had individuals under this administration, we know who they are, why they are here and going through that. Unfortunately, this individual, that entire process happened under Joe Biden's watch.
Well, but just to be very clear, we're going to go back to what happened on the Trump administration's watch. He was extensively vetted in order to sort of alongside U.S. service members as a part of the CIA train strike force. But in terms of what happened on the Trump administration's watch, just to be very clear, what vetting did the Trump administration do before giving this suspect asylum?
The vetting process, Kristen, happens when the person comes into the country and Joe Biden completely did not vet any of these individuals and not vet this individual, waited until he got into the United States. And then that application for asylum was opened under the Joe Biden administration when he was the president in the White House and allowed that to go forward with the information that they provided. That's the Biden administration's responsibility. This is the consequences of the dangerous situation he put our country in when he allowed those people to infiltrate our country during that abandonment of Afghanistan.
And that's why I'm so grateful. We have a president now that isn't going to allow it to happen, that he now has put in place measures under his watch of the Department of Homeland Security, that we are bringing in new information on vetting, new information to use, such as what do they do on Facebook? What do they do on TikTok and other social media platforms? And who are they talking to?
Who are their conversations with? And we use their biometric data information now to track to make sure they are who they say they are and they're here for the right intentions. And we are going to talk about some of the steps of the president's team. But I should be very clear about this because this asylum was approved in April of this year on the Trump administration's watch.
So just to be very clear, was there a vetting process in place to approve that asylum request? Yeah, the vetting process all happened under Joe Biden's administration. So was he vetted when he was granted asylum? Are you saying he wasn't vetted when he was granted asylum?
Vetting is vetting is vetting is happening when they come into the country. And that was completely abandoned under Joe Biden's administration. That's the that's the irresponsibility that has completely devastated our country, Kristen put us in such a dangerous position. I don't think people realized when Joe Biden was in the White House exactly how he was allowing our country to be infiltrated with people that we didn't know who they were.
Some of them we did know what dangerous and we went after as soon as they came into this country. But under this program, we could have up to 100,000 people that came in from Afghanistan that may be here to do us harm. President Trump is absolutely dedicated to getting them out of our country. Okay, we have a lot more to get to.
I want to talk about how the administration is responding. President Trump on Thursday promised to quote permanently pause migration from all third world countries. Is the administration ending all legal immigration into the United States? The president is absolutely determined to stop all processes at this point in time from third world countries until we can have a thorough opportunity to go through these individuals, know that they're here for the right intentions, and that they even should be in our country to begin with.
He's putting Americans first. They're safety first. And these third world countries don't have stable governments. They can't sustain them.
They can't tell us who they are. And that's really the consequence of what we're seeing unfold with the violence on our streets is because these countries that people have been traveling to our shores from for so many years under the Biden administration, their governments didn't tell us who they were. We don't have a proper vetting process. So that's one of the things I'm so grateful for is that President Trump has been bold enough to say, you know what?
We're going to stop. We're not going to allow this to continue until we have a process in place that ensures that it actually has integrity for people that will protect us and keep us safe. Well, the Director of Citizenship and Immigration Services posted Friday that the agency quote has halted all asylum decisions until we can ensure that every alien is vetted and screened to the maximum degree possible for people fleeing violence and persecution who were hoping for protection here in the United States. One of the hallmarks of this country is the United States now closed to them officially.
They will be properly vetted. They will have new standards put in place applied to them to ensure that they're here for that purpose. When will the asylum process start here until we're sure that they're going to be someone who truly deserves that program, deserves that opportunity. And under the last administration, that just wasn't happening.
We had all kinds of people come in and use those programs for nefarious purposes and it's going to stop. Okay, when will the asylum process start again? Well, it'll start when we know that we have dealt with the backlog that we have, Kristen. One of the things that nobody's talked about yet is that Joe Biden left us with a backlog of 1.5 million asylum cases.
They allowed so many people to abuse that program that they didn't even process the paperwork. So people who maybe, as you would say, could have credibly claimed this. They weren't even getting processed for years and years because they were allowing it to be abused in such a way. Backlog needs to be cleared up.
The individuals who are here in this country on that program need to be vetted under our standards that we're implementing under President Trump to ensure that they even should be in our country and if they're not removed immediately. Will you deport people with pending asylum claims, Madam Secretary? We will if they should be. Absolutely.
Yes, we are going to go through every single person that has appending asylum claim has an asylum claim here in this country. You know, one of the requirements of asylum is that you have to come in every single year for a checkup in an interview process and a reveting and that is something that we're going to expedite and happen immediately with anyone who does have that asylum claim today and ensure that they deserve to still be in this country, that they still have the purposes for which they claim to that asylum in place and that they're not here being radicalized and perpetuating dangerous criminal activity against our Americans. President Trump wrote on Thursday, quote, only reverse migration can fully cure this situation. On Friday, DHS posted, quote, remigration now.
As you probably know, this term has been used in different situations, but including by the far right in Europe to call for the mass deportation of non-white immigrants. How specifically does the Trump administration define remigration? Well, President Trump has been working towards cleaning up the mess that Joe Biden left us ever since he came into the White House. But how do you define that world, Secretary?
I define that world. Well, first of all, we have criminal illegal aliens we've been targeting since day one. We have removed millions of people from this country already just in the future months that President Trump has been president by making sure we're going after criminal illegal aliens that are murders, rapists and criminals and getting them out of our country, bringing them to justice and then encouraging people to go home. If you're here illegally and breaking our laws, you can leave now and you may get the opportunity to come back someday.
But if you wait until we detain you and we will deport you and you'll never get the chance to come back to America and visit us or become a citizen. We're going to continue to do that. Go after those criminals, go after those individuals that came in under programs that were broken on the Biden administration and people who were in place and leadership in that crazy, crazy four worlds we lived through, four years we lived through before President Trump came in. Thank God we have a president now that recognizes that letting all of these people into our country that we don't know who they are is dangerous.
That we let in terrorists, we let in criminals, we let in mentally unstable people. They shouldn't be here. They're going to leave and President Trump is going to ensure that Americans go become first and the priority and that they're going to save on their streets again. Secretary Noam, let me turn to my final topic.
In a filing in federal court this week, the Justice Department said that when the administration was ordered back in March to stop sending detained migrants to a mega prison in El Salvador, you personally made the final call to continue the flights anyways. Is that correct? Do you acknowledge that? You know, we have good court filings going on and decisions that are going forward.
I'll let them continue to play through that process. Did you make that call to President Trump and his leadership and the decisions that that we have made and the decisions that are made on deportations where flights go and when they go are my decision at the Department of Homeland Security and we will continue to do the right thing and ensure that dangerous criminals are removed. So that you're saying that it was your decision. It sounds like the judge wanted to ensure that people were given due process.
He said very clearly quote any plane containing these folks that is going to take off or is in the air needs to be returned to the United States. But those people need to be returned to the United States. However, that's accomplished. I leave to you.
But this is something that you need to make sure is complied with immediately. Did you defy the court's order, Madam Secretary? No, Kristen. And that's one of the things that we continue to face across this country is activist judges who are using radical decisions that have no standing and no grounds to try to stop what President Trump is doing to protect America and to keep us safe.
So we'll continue to do the right thing, continue to work and do protect Americans no matter what radical judge comes out and tries to stop us. We'll do the right thing and know that we're on the side of the law, the side of the Constitution and the side of the American people. All right. Secretary, no, thank you so much for joining us.
We really appreciate it. Thank you. When we come back, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona joins me next. Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona.
Senator Kelly, welcome back to me, the press. Good to be on. Thank you. It's wonderful to have you back after a really significant week.
And I do want to start with the National Guard shooting. You, of course, served in uniform. You know firsthand the impact, the devastation of gun violence. You just heard Secretary Noam defend President Trump's decision to quote permanently pause migration from all third world countries.
What is your response to how President Trump is handling this? Well, let me start by saying what happened to the two guardsmen, Andrew Wolf, Sarah Bextrom, horrific. And it shouldn't happen. And praying for him and for her family is a horrible, horrible thing.
And there needs to be an investigation and accountability. But when I heard the Secretary say that they're going to pause immigration from third world countries, I mean, I take that as a message that they don't want brown people coming to the United States. And I find that disturbing. We are a country that has always welcomed individuals that are struggling, that are fleeing famine and violence.
And it would be a fundamental change to the fabric of our nation to change that. No, you say you think that they are targeting people from who are brown. What do you think the administration means with this term, remigration? You just heard me talk to Homeland Security Secretary about it, ask her to define it.
How do you see that term? Well, let me just kick people out. You know, they just want to deport individuals. I have folks that I've visited in ICE detention centers in Arizona.
One has a deportation order. She came to the country 20 years ago, fleeing Communist China. She's a business owner. She has 70 employees.
Her mom's a U.S. citizen, her child's a U.S. citizen, her sister's a U.S. citizen, husband's a U.S.
citizen. And this administration wants to kick her out. She's a job creator. It doesn't help us to kick somebody like Kelly Yu from Phoenix out of the country.
It's just ridiculous. And that's the strategy they're going to take. They're trying to round up people. She talked a lot about kicking out criminals, kick criminals out, kick gang members, drug dealers.
We should deport them. But that's actually a small percentage of the people they were going after. Well, let me ask you, because you heard my back and forth with the Homeland Security Secretary about the vetting process. The alleged shooter is said to have arrived here in the United States in 2021 during America's withdrawal from Afghanistan.
President Trump blaming former President Biden, saying that that chaotic withdrawal led directly to this moment. Do you believe former President Biden's actions bear any responsibility? Well, this administration, they're going to blame Joe Biden on everything. I mean, it is almost getting comical, you know, at this point.
It sounds like there was some vetting done in the last administration. It sounds like they did not do enough vetting before they gave him his asylum claim. She talked about changing the vetting process. I think that's a good idea.
I mean, when you see an issue and a process that isn't quite working, especially after we go through an investigation on this individual, if there are things that need to be changed, we should change them. I used to have a boss, a commanding officer in the Navy that would tell me that if you're not changing things, they're getting worse. Process improvement is important. Let me ask you about the other big story.
This week, you joined five other Democratic lawmakers in a video urging service members to disobey orders they believe are illegal. We're seeing some of that video play center right now. In response, the Pentagon has opened an investigation into military laws. It says that you may have violated the FBI is reportedly launching its own probe.
Now, Defense Secretary Pete Haggseth has personally threatened to recall you to active duty so that you can be court marshaled. Secretary Haggseth adding your video, quote, intentionally undercut good order and discipline. Did it? I said something very simple and non-controversial and Donald Trump said, I should be hanged, executed, prosecuted.
Pete Haggseth said I should be court marshaled. I mean, how ridiculous is this? We say follow the law and this is their response. These are not serious people.
And Kristen, this is meant to just intimidate us. We're sticking up for the Constitution here in the rule of law and they're saying these folks should be executed for doing that. I mean, Pete Haggseth is not a serious person. He's unqualified for this job.
Should have never been put in this job. I did not vote for him. I think he is the least qualified secretary of defense in the history of our country by far. And you can see this by how he has done this job over the last six months.
And this president thinks he can bully and intimidate people. And he's not going to stop you for speaking out and holding him accountable for the things that he does that are wrong and unlawful. Do you plan to cooperate with any investigation, including a potential court marshal? Well, just like saying that we should be hanged, executed, that's about intimidation.
Sending the FBI after us, that's further intimidation. I'll follow the law, but I'm not going to be intimidated. I'm not going to be bullied, especially by Donald Trump and Pete Haggseth. Let me ask you about the substance of this video and your message in it.
What specific orders do you believe President Trump made that you consider unlawful? So this is looking forward. But let me give you, let me give you a pass, an outline of things that he has said in 2016. He said that the US military will follow his illegal orders.
He was given, he said something on a debate stage and was reminded that would be illegal. And he said the military will not refuse his orders, regardless of whether they're legal or not. He also talked about shooting protesters in the legs. How un-American, how unconstitutional is that?
Fortunately, there was a secretary of defense that has stopped this. He's also talked about sending troops in the US cities to use those cities and people for training. I mean, this is, we're concerned because of this president, with this secretary of defense, that we could have a significant problem. So this was a simple message, follow the law, and it was looking forward.
Well, and let me talk to you about some of what's happening right now. The Washington Post reporting that Secretary Haggseth gave an order to kill everybody on one of those suspected drug boats during the first strike in September. Are you calling for US service members to actively disobey orders like those? Well, if orders are illegal, not only do they not have to follow them, they are legally required not to follow them.
Do you think that constitutes an illegal order? I think it needs to be an investigation. And I hope that the reporting is not accurate. I care so much about the United States, Navy, and those service members.
This was an operation involving the most professional members of the military, US Navy SEALs, who I revere, I hope and pray that this is not true. But there needs to be an investigation by the inspector general, Pete Haggseth fired many of the inspectors general in DoD, but who's ever left, needs to investigate it. We're going to investigate it. I sit on the armed services committee.
We're going to have an investigation. We're going to have a public hearing. We're going to put these folks under oath and we're going to find out what happens, happens. And then there needs to be accountability.
Let me ask you, you reference this. You were a pilot yourself. You flew 39 combat missions over Iraq and Kuwait. You're asking officers in the field to make really tough calls about the legality of what they are being asked to do.
So I want to put the question to you, if you were still in uniform, if you received an order to strike suspected drug boats overseas and kill everybody on board, would you refuse that order in real time? Let me start by saying, I've sunk two boats, two ships. I sunk an ocean to a missile patrol boat in Kuwait Harbor. I sunk a pull-not-knee troop carrier in the Persian Gulf during the first Gulf War.
Never once did I question whether those orders were legal or illegal. People can tell the difference, should be able to tell the difference between something that is unlawful and something that is lawful. And if I was ever given an unlawful order, I would refuse, you know, if you have time, you can certainly go to the judge, advocates, generals, lawyers, and have a discussion about it. If you don't have time, you just say something, I'm not going to do that.
That's against the law. It puts a lot of burden on the troops to make a decision in real time. It's a tremendous amount of burden on officers in the military, but that is their responsibility. And they can figure out, you know, a reasonable person can tell something that is legal and something that is easy.
So would you refuse these specific orders to strike drug boats if you were still in uniform? Well, the difference between the initial strike and what is being reported, you know, as a second strike. And those things are different. I think this administration has tied themselves in knots, the explanations that we've received, on how this is all legal.
And I was saying weeks ago, my concern is with the service members that they're going to put these individuals in a really, really tough decision in a tough place. And, you know, they may find out, you know, down the road that they did something that is illegal. It is not fair to them. That's why we need presidents and secretary of defense who understand the Constitution and understand the rule of law and have more respect for the Constitution and the country and service members than the whims of the president.
All right, Senator Mark Kelly, thank you so much for being here in person. We really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota joins me next. Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota.
Governor Walz, welcome back to Meet the Press. Good to be with you, Chris, and thanks for having me. It's great to have you. Thanks you so much for being here.
I do want to start with the tragic shooting of the two National Guard Service members in the aftermath of the shooting, as you know, President Trump has responded by vowing to crackdown on refugees, including from countries beyond Afghanistan, specifically targeting the Somali community in your home state. He also described you using a slur widely regarded as derogatory toward people with intellectual disabilities. I want to read for you what he said, Governor, and get your reaction on the other side. He said, hundreds of thousands of refugees from Somalia are completely taking over the once great state of Minnesota.
Somalia gangs are roving the streets, looking for prey as our wonderful people stay locked in their apartments and houses, hoping against hope they'll be left alone. The seriously blank governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, does nothing either through fear, incompetence, or both. What is your response to President Trump, Governor? Yeah, well, first of all, let me express my condolences to the families of the the National Guardmen.
They're out there doing their duty. They serve us as a commander in chief of the National Guard and someone who served. We have responsibility to put them in a position where they're protected and they have a clear mission. And so I would express my condolences there.
Look, Donald Trump insulting me is a badge of honor for me. But I think we all know, as both as a educator for a couple decades and as a parent, using that term is just so damaging. It's hurtful. We have fought three decades to get this out of our schools.
Kids know better than to use it. But look, this is what Donald Trump has done. He's normalized this type of hateful behavior and this type of language. And mainly, look, at first, I think it's just because he's not a good human being.
But secondly, to distract from his incompetency, we know we just came through with thanksgiving more prices are up. We know people are concerned about heating their homes as we're experiencing blizzards out here at the same time. He's cutting those programs. So look, we cannot allow this to be normalized.
The people who Trump was, you know, like this is language police, you guys are woke. Many times it's just about being decent to people and making them feel included. You can use that word? Sure.
You can use that language, but you shouldn't. And that's something that Donald Trump fails to realize. But again, Kristen, this is, this is cruelness. This is meanness.
This aimed at a broader community. And as far as demonizing our Somali community, maybe he could help us on some things, demonizing an entire community, folks who are in the professions, educators, artists, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, they bring the diversity and the energy to a place like Minnesota. And for him to just randomly decide to do this, it makes no sense. Do your job, get the criminals out, secure a border, but do it with dignity and respect to the American tradition of respecting immigrants and refugees as a beacon of hope.
Well, speaking of the Somali community, President Trump is targeting them and your state in part, he's citing fraud is the reason for his crackdown. Dozens of people of East African descent have been charged, convicted and sentenced for stealing more than a billion dollars in taxpayer money from government programs during COVID. As you know, Governor, that is where the Minnesota spends each year to run its Department of Corrections. So I want to give you a chance to respond to this.
Do you take responsibility for failing to stop this fraud in your state? Well, certainly, I take responsibility for putting people in jail. Governors don't get to just talk theoretically. We have to solve problems.
And I will note, it's not just Somalis. Minnesota is a generous state, Minnesota is a prosperous state, a well-run state, which are a little bit unrated. But that attracts criminals. Those people are going to jail.
We're doing everything we can. But to demonize an entire community on the actions of a few, it's lazy. And as you heard, Senator Kelly say, this president has cut a lot of inspector generals. He's cut programs that could help us take a pack of this on.
So we are. We'll take it on. We'll put folks in jail. I don't care what your nationality is.
I don't care what your religion is, your color. If you're committing crimes, these are programs that were meant to serve students with autism to housing and to making sure people had enough to eat. There's a reason Minnesota ranks as the top, lowest childhood poverty, best place for children to live. People are taking advantage of that.
They're going to prison. That is totally disconnected with demonizing an entire group of people who came here fleeing civil war and created a vibrant community that makes Minnesota and this country better. But that's Donald Trump. Deflect, demonize, come up with no solutions.
He's not going to help fix anything on fraud. My God, there's a big difference between fraud and corruption and corruption is something he knows about. Well, Governor, let me have you weigh in on this, because part of your initial response to President Trump's post was to call for him to release the results of his MRI. And I want to give you a chance to give our viewers exactly a sense of what exactly were you suggesting by that Governor?
Well, here we got a guy on Thanksgiving, where we spent time with our families. We ate, we played Yahtzee, we cheered for football, whatever. This guy is apparently in a room ranting about everything else. This is not normal behavior.
It is not healthy. And presidents throughout time have released a couple things. They've released their tax returns, not Donald Trump. And they've released their medical records, not Donald Trump.
And look, the MRI is one thing. But I think what's most concerning about this is, as your viewers out there are listening, has anyone in the history of the world ever have an MRI assigned to them and have no idea what it was for, as he says. So look, it's clear the president's fading physically. I think the mental capacity, again, ranting, you know, crazily at midnight on Thanksgiving about everything else.
There's reasons for us to be concerned. This is a guy that randomly says the airspace over Venezuela's close. He's ruminating on if you could win a nuclear war. Look, this is a serious position.
It's the most powerful position in the world. And we have someone at midnight throwing around slurs that demonize our children. At the same time, he's not solving any of the problems. So I'm deeply concerned that he is incapable of doing the job.
Governor, couple more to get to here. I want to talk about the Democrats. You were, of course, the Democratic vice presidential nominee in 2024, because President Biden dropped out over concerns about his fitness for office. Vice President Harris, in her new book, said it was, quote, recklessness for former President Biden's allies to leave the decision about running for reelection up to him and his family.
Do you agree with her? Was it recklessness? Look, I wasn't there, Kristen, on this. And I think the president, again, got us through COVID ushered us through, brought the economy back from the edge.
I think there's a question about this. And I want to be very clear on me talking about the MRI. Ageism is a real thing. Ableism is a real thing that we need to be careful of with people.
And I think Donald Trump made a cottage industry out of attacking Joe Biden's competency. And it seemed like that got reported a lot. Now, whether that decision should have been made sooner, history will determine that. What I do know is, is that going forward, we need somebody in office who's actually going to tackle the things Americans need, whether it's about costs, or whether it's about our national security needs and honoring those with our allies.
And I think maybe there's a lesson to be learned from what happened with President Biden. If that's the case, it should certainly be applied right now to this president who is putting Americans at risk is reckless and is not doing what he's asked to do. Make life better for the American people. All right, let me turn to the future from Vice President Kamala Harris has left the door open to potentially run for office again.
Do you still think she's the strongest person to run for president in 2028? Well, I'm glad she's out there. And I'm glad a whole lot of other people are out there, because I think Donald Trump sucks up so much oxygen. We need to have the Democratic Party out on the field.
The broad inclusive Democratic Party talking about making life more affordable, talking about protecting freedoms. And I think Kamala Harris does a wonderful job with that. If she chooses to run, that betters all of us. We will have the process.
We'll go through. I'm sure there'll be a lot of folks who are there, you know, they're happening to the ring. But that's good. And we need to make sure that we're providing the alternative that America's asking for.
If they're going to elect us, we need to make sure health care costs come down. We need to make sure prices come down. We need to make sure that we're addressing the things that they care about, whether it's clean water or protecting environment. Those are things they want to see us get done.
And I think she had a message last year that I'm proud of. I think did it break through enough? Obviously not. But it's still a message that works, making sure that America's affordable for all people feel included.
And we tackle the toughest problems. All right, Governor Wallace, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. When we come back, why candidates keep running to the talk show couch before running for office.
Are we the press minute? It's next. Welcome back. California Congressman Eric Swell started not with a press conference, but with an announcement on Jimmy Kimmel's late night talk show.
He's not the first politician to look for a big moment on entertainment TV. Richard Nixon did a cameo on laughing in 1968. Bill Clinton brought his saxophone and sunglasses to our Cineol Hall and independent candidate Ross Perot saved his 1992 presidential announcement for Larry King Law. The legendary host joined me the press to explain why politicians kept turning to alternative media platforms.
In 1968 in Miami, I interviewed Hubert Humphrey and Richard Nixon and George Wallace. They all were running for president. They came on into phone calls. Well, Jimmy Carter ran in Iowa.
He won by going on talk shows through Iowa. No one knew him. He went on talk shows. So talk shows are staple in America.
What's happened now is 68% of America has access to 50 channels. So we have CNN and C-SPAN and we have news networks and local news networks. And there's daytime talk and nighttime talk and nightlines. And this gives the opportunity for the public to see more of someone.
Meet the presses now an hour. Why? The Today Show takes phone calls. Why?
Because the public has more access gets used to with the meeting candidate. So why wouldn't a candidate who has something to say with good thoughts and approaches well with the public? Why shouldn't he or she use all venues? And if one of those venues is an hour talk show that's on 151 countries and has some spice, why wouldn't you use it?
I would use it if I were running. When we come back, President Trump pushes for reverse migration. How far will he go with his crackdown? The panel is next.
Welcome back. The panel is here. Susan Glasser, staff writer for the New Yorker, former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings of Florida and Mike Dubke, former Trump White House communications director. Welcome to you all.
Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and you're not too stuffed for a conversation. Susan, let me start with you and just have you set the table here because we are seeing President Trump really ramp up his crackdown on who can come into the country and who can stay in the country. You heard Secretary Nome say that it's possible they may deport people with pending asylum claims. Where do you see this going?
Yeah, you know, I was really struck, of course, that this is all remember a response to a terrible tragedy that happened here in Washington on the eve of the holiday and, you know, absolutely a terrible tragedy, you know, not political in any way. And yet what we're seeing, I think, from the administration is an effort to sort of take that tragedy and now impose what, you know, you might even call a form of collective punishment. The idea that Donald Trump over the holiday weekend is saying we're going to pause all asylum decisions, all people coming in from quote third world countries. I don't even know what that means, you know, but it seems to be a response again to this tragic killing.
You know, so on the one hand, we're still learning about the facts of this case. You spoke about that with the Secretary of Homeland Security. But then you have, you know, what appears to be a list of policies and a sort of a wish list part of the immigration crackdown that I see the administration sort of moving to make as part of the same news cycle about this tragedy of these West Virginia National Guard officials. Mike, pick up on that point because Susan speaks about this idea of collective punishment that all suddenly all Afghan nationals would be punished for the actions, the horrific actions of this one person.
What are the conversations you are having inside the Republican Party about? What is unfolding right now? Is there a concern that some of these actions could be going too far and could backfire quite time? I think there's a concern that, especially among those individuals that are either served in the military in Afghanistan and really recognize that now we're painting with a broad brush, these individuals that were helpful to American troops, you know, we can't turn our backs on them.
So I think that conversation's happening. The bigger conversation here, really, and I call it this, this 90, 30 and three problem that the president has. He's got 90% of Republicans that are still with him on immigration, the economy, almost every issue. There has been no cracks, 30% of independents and 3% of Democrats that 30% of independents is really the number he's got to focus on.
But right now with immigration, they feel comfortable with the base being with them to double down on the issue that they think is the best one for the administration to run out. Former Congressman Demings, you are a former Orlando police chief. You obviously have served in Congress. How do you see this particularly as Mike lays out those different factions and the fact that the base is still with President Trump on this?
Well, let me say this, and both of those jobs I took an oath to the Constitution. President Trump and Secretary Noam did as well. What happened to the National Guard members was a tragedy. Let's get to the bottom of it and find out how this happens so we can prevent it from happening again.
But even in the light of this tragedy, the president has to follow the immigration laws that are on the book. He cannot just decide to make up laws as he goes along. That's Congress's job. I'm glad to see Congress's back at work and there.
Let Congress do the work that they need to do with changes need to be made. Bring Congress into the table and let them help you make those changes. We are seeing Susan oversight for the first time. It seems as though poised to be oversight on a separate issue, which is the killings of these suspected drug vote traffickers.
And it comes into this revelation that Secretary Higgs had basically gave a spoken order to kill everyone. One of these votes in September, you heard Senator Kelly respond to that and basically say, I hope that reporting is not true. But is this an infection point where you're starting to see Congress have oversight as one of the themes of this is the president testing on its visibility? Oh my goodness, Kristin, I have to say, first of all, that phrase, expecting to have oversight.
What we're nine months into the Trump administration and one of the signature things we've all observed about our politics, not functioning in the way that we expect, is Congress, Republican led above the House and the Senate, essentially giving Donald Trump as signing over Congress's power to the executive branch. And so I would say to certain Democrats, especially since those election results have said, oh, maybe we're detecting some cracks in the system. Congress has not yet asserted its role and its function. I do think it's notable that you have both the House and the Senate Armed Services Committee.
That's the Republican chairs and the Democrats saying they want to have hearings on this, that they want to have oversight and an investigation into what occurred. I think what I've heard from many national security veterans, I don't even know what their party is, real alarm about what has been unfolding in the Caribbean. This massive military buildup, President Trump has just declared over the weekend that Venezuelan air space is closed. And yet, you have a real question here.
Is it legal on what basis are these strikes being carried out? You've had law professors and others come out and say it's not legal, even putting aside the question of whether two people who were no longer fighting were killed. This is one of the themes of questions about how the president is using his executive authority. He called for his political enemies, James Comey, and Lucian James to be prosecuted.
Those cases were dropped against them. The administration is going to appeal. But again, it fits into this broader question about whether there are checks on his power. It seems like the courts are the front lines.
You know, the president can only ask the executive branch can only do what he's doing, good or bad, with Congress and the courts not doing what they're supposed to do. We have a checks and balances system, and just to listen to what you talked about, killing everyone. And then the secretary has wonders why six members of Congress felt the need to put out a video reminding service members that they cannot or should not follow illegal orders. Mike, 10 seconds left.
We have checks and balances in the system. I think the president is going to move as far as he can, as we see with, and as far as this administration will go. That should not be, we should expect that. All right, Mike, thank you.
Thank you all for joining us. And thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's new to press. He was a young Marine.
She didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died, and then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Megawats, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all-new podcast from Dateline.
Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts.