NY Times Tries to Rewrite Masculinity and Fatherhood

In this episode of Based Camp, Simone and Malcolm Collins break down The New York Times’ recent coordinated coverage of masculinity and fatherhood. They analyze four pieces that attempt to redefine what it means to be a dad — including a cartoon about a trans father on Father’s Day, a childless writer’s take on “modern” fatherhood, an attack on Scott Galloway’s views on paternity leave, and Ezra Klein’s conversation with Helen Lewis framing the “New Right’s very old vision of men.”The Collinses argue these articles reveal deep cultural elite contempt for actual fathers and promote unsustainable, self-indulgent views of parenting that prioritize personal identity and emotional affirmation over duty, sacrifice, and long-term human thriving. They explain why pronatalist, traditional approaches to masculinity and fatherhood will inherit the future while progressive narratives collapse under their own contradictions.Expect sharp cultural analysis, personal parenting stories, and a direct challenge to the mainstream media’s attempt to gaslight men about what fatherhood really is.Show Notes@AlexBerenson wrote: Cannot make this up, either.@nytimes opinion has had four recent pieces about fatherhood and masculinity, with six authors:Three womenA trans “man”Two childless menNot one father. The cultural elite contempt for dads runs so deep we don’t even get to speak for ourselves.The four pieces appear to be these recent New York Times Opinion items on fatherhood/masculinity:* “To My Daughter, My Gender Was Never Complicated” (guest essay in comic-strip form, by Zach Ellams, a trans-identifying parent writing about being a “trans dad” and fatherhood).* “The Most Important Way That Fatherhood Has Changed” (Father’s Day–timed essay on changing perspectives on fatherhood).* “This Masculinity Influencer Is Loud and Wrong About Paternity Leave” (criticizing a male influencer’s stance on paternity leave and broader masculinity issues).* “The New Right’s Very Old Vision of Men” (Opinion video/transcript focusing on men, masculinity and the New Right, featuring journalist Helen Lewis).“To My Daughter, My Gender Was Never Complicated”https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/21/opinion/trans-dad-parenting-fathers-day.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/21/opinion/trans-dad-parenting-fathers-day.html?unlocked_article_code=1.r1A.oWDB.tcG4utZreGgZ&smid=url-shareThis shows a series of cartoon panels about a trans father who underwent surgery at 18 and has lived as a father of a daughter, mostly quite out, for some time.It’s about how he found self acceptance through parenting (and I love that, because I—Simone—have also experienced that and can totally relate)The panels include things like:* His daughter yelling: “HOW DID YOU GROW A MUSTACHE IF YOU WERE A LADY?” at a public school* His daughter asking about a pre-transition picture of him in an album and asking:* “Who’s that?”* “It’s me”* “Oh. You look cool.”* “Then or now?”* “Then.”* Him worrying about his daughter outing him at school* “I don’t actually tell everyone I’m trans. I save that for special people”* Eventually she outs him, saying she wants to grow a beard when she grows up, and when told she can’t, insisting she can because her dad did and he was a girl.* Her various sick burns* “You’re slow because you’re old!”* “Maybe I’ll be like you when I grow up” // “Yeah?” // “Yeah. Really short.”The Backlash:* @realBrandonGill: “On Father’s Day, the New York Times decided to promote a cartoon of a woman cosplaying as a father. And they did it for a reason. Because the cultural left knows that the first step to conquering the future is brainwashing the minds of our children— and they’ve realized that strong fathers are the biggest obstacle to that goal. They want to tear the institution of fatherhood down to nothing because, to the left, things that are normal, good, and holy are a threat to their marxist revolution.”* Matt Taibbi: “Today’s NYT editorial on Father’s Day is an all-timer. Again, don’t know where to put it on the funny-vs-horrifying axis:”* @EndWokeness: “The New York Times on Father’s Day. We do not hate the media enough.”* Caitlin Flanagan: “The child’s job was to help the parent feel comfortable with his gender.”* @AfterTheReset: “Message aside, is it necessary for the cartoons to be ugly, poorly drawn, and unappealing?”Is this an affront to father’s day?* Sort of* Mother’s Day in the modern U.S. sense was founded by Anna Maria Jarvis in the early 1900s to create a solemn “memorial mothers day” honoring the sacrifices and care of individual mothers, inspired directly by her own mother Ann Reeves Jarvis’s wish for such a day and by Ann’s community health and reconciliation work.* Anna’s drive was rooted in her mother Ann Reeves Jarvis’s work: Ann had organized “Mothers’ Day Work Clubs” in the 1850s to improve sanitation and reduce infant mortality, and later “Mother’s Friendship Day” events to heal divisions between Union and Confederate families after the Civil War. Ann also expressed in a Sunday school prayer that she hoped someone would someday establish a “memorial mothers day” for the “matchless service” mothers render to humanity, a line Anna took as her guiding mission* In the U.S., Father’s Day is generally credited to Sonora Smart Dodd of Spokane, Washington, who proposed the holiday in 1909 after hearing a church sermon about Anna Jarvis’s newly established Mother’s Day. (her civil war veteran dad raised her and her siblings alone after her mother died).* I find this really relatable as a parent* Many of us have peculiarities and a story about how parenting helps with acceptance and getting someone out of their heads is actually really good* In fact, these panels even demonstrate how the author’s daughter gets him to stop overthinking things* There’s a panel where she’s like: “I spot something that starts with T!”* And all he can think of is “trans”* And he’s like: Termite? Turtleneck? Tiny morsel of wood?”* And his daughter is like: “TREES.”“The Most Important Way That Fatherhood Has Changed”https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/15/opinion/fathers-day-fatherhood.htmlhttps://archive.is/Gn93jIn this, Frank Bruni, a (childless) contributing opinion writer who has been on staff at the time for over 25 years, talks about how fatherhood has changed between his dad and his brother’s generations (his brother has three kids in their 20s)He talks about fathers spending more time with their kids now an cites an article suggesting one reason fertility is lower is that men want to give the kids they do have more attention.In short, he says modern fatherhood is high effort, high investment, and he says that’s good.He sort of misses that the investment now isn’t in empowering kids but rather indulging them, and he provides a good example: “Mark encouraged his children to let him in by inviting them to understand him. He made sure that they met and mingled with his adult friends and thus observed how he tended relationships and what they meant to him. He also showed his children his passions.“I took Frank to a Grateful Dead concert when he was 12,” Mark told me, referring to his oldest son, who, like me, is named after my father. But that outing wasn’t just characteristically ardent Deadhead evangelism (and, well, unorthodox parenting). It reflected Mark’s sustained effort to expand the time that he and Frank spent together. The more hours, the more conversation. The more conversation, the greater the likelihood of serendipitous revelations, real familiarity, deeper connection.”“This Masculinity Influencer Is Loud and Wrong About Paternity Leave”https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/21/opinion/paternity-leave-debate.htmlhttps://archive.is/Zm4OyIn this opinion piece, Jessica Grose denounces Scott Galloway’s stance on paternity leave.It should be noted that Scott Galloway is one of the few progressive-leaning pronatalists out there (center-left liberal or social capitalist rather).In an interview with Derek Thompson, Galloway said: “I think there should be mandatory maternity leave, because I think the species needs to propagate. I’m not sure there should be mandatory paternity leave. I think it sometimes creates resentment. I think sometimes it’s abused. And so I’m a bit of a capitalist here. I think it’s between the company, but I don’t know if I immediately default to oh, the father needs to be there.”Grose added: “Galloway also commented that he doesn’t think men should be in the delivery room. “I thought that was so disgusting and unnatural,” he says. When I asked Galloway if he had a response to the backlash he has been getting over these comments, he said over email, “My comments were intentionally provocative in the context of a friendly/snarky conversation with Derek.””She also noted: “Poor Derek Thompson tried to push back, and launch a defense of parental leave. “Most of the gap between prime age adult male and female earnings is a motherhood penalty. And so one benefit of paternity leave is that it puts men and women on relatively more equal standing,” to which Galloway replies, “By lowering the economic standards of the man?””She proceeded to cite research finding that “Paid paternity leave in Quebec did not fix the motherhood penalty for women, nor did it substantially hurt men’s economic standards.”She also attempts to exploit that “not a baby man” aspect of Galloway’s personality:* “It gets worse. Thompson, who is still glowing from the birth of his second child, shares a very sweet story with Galloway about playing “monster” with his eldest child, a 2-year-old, and how he feels “an enormous upsurge of instinct for how to parent my child.” Thompson adds, “I love discovering a new piece of myself in parenting.”Galloway doesn’t even seem to be listening to Thompson, because his response is, “The bad news is it just sucks for the dad. We pretend to like it.” Galloway thinks dads are full of it “when they say they like babies. They’re awful. As a new dad your job is to make sure moms don’t lose it, “and get some sleep and keep the baby away from bodies of water. That is literally your only two jobs right now, or the only two things that you’re any good at. At about 2 or 3 it starts to get less awful and then by 4 or 5 it almost becomes fun.””She imposes an implication on Galloway that is unfair: “Scott Galloway is entitled to his feelings about parenting babies, and I’m sure he’s not alone. What I am objecting to is the unsaid implication that it’s super fun for moms all the time, while also talking to a man who seems to be wholeheartedly enjoying his small children.”She tries to argue that many men like being fathers (implying Galloway is heartless) and that studies show people want supportive partners and that partners who take paternity leave “have higher levels of life satisfaction, better health, better marriages and better relationships to their children”She writes: “When I asked Galloway if he was familiar with any of this research, he said, “My point wasn’t that paternity leave is bad — it’s that we should be honest about trade-offs and let families make decisions based on their circumstances rather than treating one model as morally superior.””But then she frames his statement as elitist, writing about how few people have that choice.She finishes with: “I don’t think it’s unusual for men to find childbirth uncomfortable or scary to watch, and becoming a dad can be a rough transition for many; there’s a whole genre of internet videos of dads passing out in the delivery room. But I don’t think saying that watching women give birth is “disgusting and unnatural” is the best way to start this conversation. Galloway told me in an email, “The broader point I was making — clumsily — is that we should be honest about the different experiences people have rather than prescriptive about what every father must feel or do. Some dads experience profound bonding in the first weeks; others find their stride later. Both are valid.”I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.”This is exactly why we don’t have very many left-leaning pronatalists.* On one hand we have a woman who has unreasonable demands for a pet project* On the other hand we have a man trying to share a relatable view and espouse practical solutions“The New Right’s Very Old Vision of Men”https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/05/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-helen-lewis-gender-right.htmlhttps://archive.is/kuEGGThis is an episode of the Ezra Klein show with Helen Lewis as they discuss a concept she wrote about and refers to as masculinism.They open with clips of Bronze Age Pervert and Tucker Carlson yearning for “the ancient Hittite Empire or the ancient Mitanni Empire” and “what we had before Betty Friedan wrote “The Feminine Mystique,” before lifestyle feminism dominated every institution in the West.”They argue:* There is a coherent masculinist ideology on the American right that goes far beyond the online “manosphere” provocateurs like Andrew Tate.* Its central claim: modernity and liberal democracy have “thwarted” true masculinity, which is defined around hierarchy, dominance, risk‑taking, and clear gender roles (male breadwinner, female homemaker).* Figures like Raw Egg Nationalist, Bronze Age Pervert (Costin Alamariu), Helen Andrews, JD Vance, Doug Wilson, and parts of Heritage’s agenda are all different expressions of this same ideological current.They talk about various concerns expressed within the sphere of masculinism (from dropping testosterone to boys’ struggles in schools, male suicide, endorcine-disrupting chemicals, sedentary work, etc.)Their primary criticism of it center around:* A lack of what they find to be empty or incoherent intellectualism* Klein keeps finding “less there than I thought”: beneath the grand talk of thymos, Nietzsche and liberal decadence, the arguments often collapse into trivial lifestyle advice (e.g. “throw out your plastic chopping board”) or conspiratorial hormone politics.* They argue that much of the literature swaps serious argument for trolling, irony and “vibes,” making claims hard to pin down and allowing proponents to dodge accountability for what they’re actually saying.* The movement’s misogyny* Historical nostalgia and bad faith use of “the past”* FAIR.* They argue the movement builds on mythic, cherry‑picked pasts: a fake 1950s Pleasantville, a sanitized Rome or Sparta, or vague “longhouse” matriarchies that collapse under any concrete historical scrutiny.* The movement’s contempt for liberal self‑restraint and equality* They find masculinists overly valorize aggression, domination, and hierarchy* Klein argues healthy masculinity is a matter of self mastery* The self-helpishness of the movement* The looksmaxxing* The extreme body aesthetics (steroid use)* Their allegedly exploiting real male distress in exploitative ways* They say masculinists focus too much on butthurt and hierarchy and not on actual constructive reforms* Their policy threat* E.g. pushback on no-fault divorce* The tone* Klein emphasizes that the movement’s heroes (like* Trump and Nick Fuentes) embody disinhibition, cruelty, and narcissism rather than courage, responsibility, or fatherhood; he calls this a “terrible vision” of adulthood and manhood.Episode Transcript[00:00:00] Simone Collins: Hello, Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you today, because The New York Times seems to be, in some either organized or unintentional fashion making a stance on what masculinity is, really trying to shape the narrative in a very, like, kind of obvious way.[00:00:15] Malcolm Collins: Is it, is it bopping your kids?[00:00:17] Simone Collins: N- no. No, no, no, no. It’s- No, no,[00:00:19] Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no, no.[00:00:20] Simone Collins: They don’t get to- ... the opposite of that. And I started falling down this rabbit hole when I saw this tweet on X at Alex Berenson wrote, “Cannot make this up either. @NYTimesOpinion has had four recent pieces about fatherhood and masculinity with six authors.[00:00:36] Three women, a trans man, two childless men. Not one father. The cultural elite contempt for dads runs so deep that we don’t even get to speak for ourselves.” He didn’t directly reference all of the four articles in his, his post, so I-[00:00:54] Malcolm Collins: The trans article was really creepy.[00:00:56] Simone Collins: The trans article, we we’re gonna go...[00:00:58] That’s our first one. But I did, I did, I think I found the four of them. There is, “To My Daughter, My Gender Was Never Complicated.” This is the- Trans one that Malcolm alluded to. We’re gonna look at The, The Most Important Way That Fatherhood Has Changed, a Father’s Day themed essay on changing perspectives on fatherhood.[00:01:17] This masculinity influencer is loud and wrong about paternity leave, which is criticizing Scott Galloway’s stance on paternity leave and broader masculinity issues. Him being a left-leaning pronatalist, and one of the only ones. Mm. So great. Thanks, guys. And then finally, The New Right’s Very Old Vision of Men which is from the Ezra Klein podcast actually, where he has on Helen Lewis.[00:01:41] So two people I think are great and, but no, they have to talk about basically reframe the entire... They call it, I think, well, we’ll, we’ll get into it. Some, some name that Helen Lewis has chosen for the masculinity, masculinity movement, like raw nationalist and bronze per- pervert and a bunch of other people in our broader space.[00:02:00] But why they’re like shallow and evil. So this[00:02:04] Malcolm Collins: is very much- These people are awesome. Hold on. No, the thing is, is we will replace them. None of these people who are whining about what it means to be a dad is a real dad. Well,[00:02:12] Simone Collins: and you’ll see this actually. And here’s who’s gonna replace them. So what I think is interesting is this, this is their attempt to frame this is what masculinity is or should be.[00:02:19] This is what fatherwood- fatherhood is or should be. And in so doing, they actually, I think, explain exactly your point, why they are going to be replaced, why they are not going to inherit the future. Ooh. Because the views they express are inherently unsustainable and not going to produce something that helps humans thrive in the end which I think is telling.[00:02:44] So let’s jive right in to the one that really got X clutching its pearls in such a way that they just burst into powder. To my daughter, my gender was never complicated. This was a series of cartoon panels about a trans father who underwent surgery at 18 and has lived as a father of a daughter mostly, mostly not quite out actually for quite some time.[00:03:11] And it’s supposed to be- Okay ... this heartwarming story about h- how a parent has found self-acceptance through parenting. And on the surface, like, I really like that because, as you know, I have to give myself grace more now, knowing that our children are a lot like me and that some of the most difficult things about them are traits that are deep from within me, and I have to...[00:03:34] It’s a whole thing. I like that. But so for those of you just listening, the panels include things like his daughter yelling, .” How did you grow a mustache if you were a lady?” at a public pool where this father is not out. His daughter asking about a pre-transition picture of him in an album and asking, “Who’s that?”.[00:03:53] And the father says, “It’s me.” “Oh, you look cool. Then or now?” “Then.” [00:04:00] She’s just full of sick burns, honestly. He- Just[00:04:02] burns ...[00:04:03] he has some panels about worrying about his daughter outing him at school where she talks about like, “Oh, my mommy, I, I told them how my mommy made a cake for you after your surgery.”[00:04:14] And he, he says, “I don’t actually tell everyone I’m trans. I save that for special people.” And then eventually she does out him, saying that she wants to grow a beard when she grows up, and when told that she can’t, she insists that she can because her dad did and he was a girl.[00:04:29] And[00:04:30] Malcolm Collins: some more- Oh, then it’s not grooming at all.[00:04:32] Simone Collins: No, I know, I know, I know. Some other sick burns from her that I love-[00:04:35] Malcolm Collins: I love how they just, they’re, they’re always like, they’re always like this. They’re always like, “We’re not grooming people.” We’re not[00:04:40] Simone Collins: doing that.[00:04:40] Malcolm Collins: And then they show an example of a kid growing up in an environment where this is normalized wanting to do it themself,[00:04:45] Simone Collins: and they don’t- I thought I would marry a woman and have 100 cats and live in a van,[00:04:49] Malcolm Collins: okay?[00:04:49] You, like you literally thought the norm was being a lesbian. And, and, and the-[00:04:52] Simone Collins: I know I did. I really did, ‘cause all my friends[00:04:55] Malcolm Collins: grew up in San Francisco. You[00:04:55] Simone Collins: grew[00:04:55] Malcolm Collins: up in San Francisco. Yeah ... and it’s, you know, I think that one of the things To remember is that grooming is normal to an extent, right? Like, in that everybody grows up into the culture, or often into the culture, th- they’re surrounded by when they’re a kid, and that’s often the culture’s goal.[00:05:14] This is why at the San Francisco Cho- Choir, you know, they’re saying, “We are coming for your kids.” Because these groups breed at well below replacement rate. The only way they can be stable is by converting children from other cultural groups. Mm. They just need to define this, and those children would normally be groomed into their own healthy culture, right?[00:05:31] But now they are being parasitized into cultures that their birth culture typically would see as negative. And that by the statistics seems to have negative outcomes in terms of mental health, life happiness, et cetera. But continue.[00:05:48] Simone Collins: Just two more sick burns from the daughter before we go over the backlash.[00:05:53] And it, it is, this is really an affront on Father’s Day. She said, “You’re slow ‘cause you’re old.” I, which is just kind of a young person thing to say, but I love it. And at one point she, she told her dad, “Maybe I’ll be like you when I grow up,” and he’s like, “Yeah?” And I think he’s thinking maybe, like, trans like me or something, but she’s like, “Yeah, really short,” which is just delightful.[00:06:15] This girl is really funny. And I think that, you know, the, the, the parent who was able to notice the humor in these moments is funny. But the backlash, ooh, the, a lot of people on X didn’t like it. @RealBrandonGill wrote, “On Father’s Day, The New York Times decided to pronote- promote a cartoon of a woman cosplaying as a father, and they did it for a reason.[00:06:35] Because the cultural left knows that the first step to conquering the future is brainwashing the minds of our children, and they’ve realized that strong fathers are the biggest obstacle to that goal. They want to tear the institution of fatherhood down to nothing because to the left, things that are normal, good, and holy are a threat to the Marxist revolution.”[00:06:56] Matt Taibbi wrote, “Today’s NYT editorial on Father’s Day is an all-timer.” Again, I don’t know where to put it on the funny versus horrifying axis. @EndWokeness wrote, “The New York Times on Father’s Day. We do not hate the media enough.” Caitlin Finne- Flanagan wrote, “The child’s job was to help the parent feel comfortable with his gender.”[00:07:17] And @AfterTheReset, “Message aside, is it necessary for the cartoons to be ugly, poorly drawn, and unappealing?” And per our episode on communists and terrifyingly badass girls-[00:07:29] Malcolm Collins: Yes, and now we’re like, “Oh, that’s the point” ... like, that’s why they do it. Yeah. Yeah, but the problem is that they’ve so promulgated it within their culture specifically that the other side is, i- you know, we can compete with our sexy anime girls made with, with AI.[00:07:43] In fact, you know, why don’t I put in a sexy Simone right now just so everyone can see my-[00:07:47] Oh, my God. Okay, great ... my hot German anime waifu. Thanks. The, the... I, I think, I think we, we can beat them because we get the sexy art, and we can make it- ... for virtually free. Go to RFAB. By the way, if you’re wondering the model that I [00:08:00] use most for these, it’s RFAB’s GPT model is the one- Oh[00:08:04] that’s best for the-[00:08:04] Simone Collins: No way ... producing sexy[00:08:05] Malcolm Collins: German women. Yeah.[00:08:06] Simone Collins: Really? Mm-hmm. I’m just so used to GPT art being h- awful. Like, the, the short legs. You know what I’m talking about, the short legs. Did they get over that, I guess?[00:08:16] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It’s great. I mean, I, I like... If you’ve liked the images that I show, they’re genuine- Yeah[00:08:21] GPT, Maybe[00:08:22] Simone Collins: it’s just better at anime. Hmm.[00:08:24] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I tell it to do it in an anime style. Yeah. You know, so.[00:08:28] Simone Collins: Okay.[00:08:28] Malcolm Collins: Oh,[00:08:28] Simone Collins: ooh. Hold on,[00:08:31] Malcolm Collins: buddy. But I mean, if we can fight asynchronous warfare where everything in their world has to be ugly... And I do think the other point that the person made here is really interesting about this- Yeah[00:08:38] is the piece and the focus was on his daughter affirming his lifestyle.[00:08:45] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like- Which by the way actually i- is an affront to the concept of Father’s Day and Mother’s Day, which isn’t about This is about me. This is my day. These holidays existed to be a memorial to the sacrifice and hard work that parents do.[00:09:05] Yeah. Not of, like, the affirming role that their children play for them. So Father’s Day was sort of, it was inspired by Mother’s Day- ... which was founded by this woman named Anna Maria Jarvis. She wanted to create- ... a solemn memorial Mother’s Day honoring the sacrifices and care of individual mothers.[00:09:26] Inspired by her mother, Ann Reeves who had done all sorts of, like, amazing things to help, like, just sort of community works and things like that. But Father’s Day, even more so- ... is really about, like, immense sacrifice to help raise your kids. So Father’s Day was founded by Sonora Smart Dodd of Spokane, Washington, who heard about Mother’s Day-[00:09:48] and was like, “Hold on,” like, “Dads need this.” ‘Cause her Civil War veteran dad raised her and her siblings alone after her mother died. So this is about dads going above and beyond, sacrificing their happiness and their wellbeing and their sanity to take care of their children. And- Hmm ... yeah, I mean, this is not really, I would say, in the at least original spirit of Father’s Day.[00:10:09] Even though I find it relatable as a parent I, I do think that our kids teach us how to give grace to ourselves or accept ourselves better, but that’s not what being a parent should be about, ever. It should not be about self-affirmation.[00:10:25] Malcolm Collins: And, and that’s wild. This reframing of parenthood as an act of self-affirmation,[00:10:30] Simone Collins: which- And that’s, again, that’s part of the problem.[00:10:31] Like, again, to the theme of this episode, this is why the progressive left is not going to inherit the future, is because they, they’re not having children out of a sense of duty or obligation, self-sacrifice. They’re having it as, an ef- and even contextualizing it as sort of an indulgent my spiritual journey, my journey of self-acceptance kind of thing.[00:10:56] And it’s th- this, this, this parent is so in their head about their trans identity, for example. One kid who already wants[00:11:07] to sterilize[00:11:08] themselves. There’s even a panel in the, there’s even a panel in the, the, the, she, the, sorry. The, the author includes where the daughter, they’re in a park, and the daughter’s like, “I spot something, it starts with a T.[00:11:19] Can you guess what it is?” Basically, and the, the father’s like, “Aw.” Like, can only think of trans. Can only think of trans in a park, and is like, “A termite? A tiny morsel of dirt?” Like, coming up with all these things and, and the daughter’s just like, “Trees.” It just, I think demonstrates the extent to which this parent is so preoccupied with their own identity[00:11:43] Malcolm Collins: and- Yeah, they can’t even see...[00:11:44] Well, what a great metaphor. They can’t even see the trees in a park.[00:11:48] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:11:48] Malcolm Collins: They can’t even see the trees around them. They, they can’t see the tree. It’s, it’s- The woods for, the[00:11:52] Simone Collins: woods for the trees. Yes. Is that what you’re going for here?[00:11:55] Malcolm Collins: Yes. Okay. Yeah. But they’re, to, to miss the world around them so [00:12:00] holistically-[00:12:00] Simone Collins: Yeah[00:12:01] Malcolm Collins: out of a focus on their own identity.[00:12:03] Simone Collins: Yeah. And this, again, like I, I find it a relatable message. I think it’s, it’s sweet, but it’s also, I think, very telling, and it is, it is a bit of an affront to the original point of the holiday. By the way, Malcolm, thank you for your sacrifice. I was, we were so busy on Sunday that I, We’re gonna have to do a delayed Father’s Day, and I’m really sorry.[00:12:23] Malcolm Collins: No,[00:12:23] what?[00:12:23] Simone Collins: You’re an amazing dad. You’re such an amazing dad. You, you sacrifice more than any other man I’ve ever encountered. You put yourself on the front lines of parenthood in a way that no father or husband I’ve ever met will. Like- Mm ... that you’re always the one that takes the kids to the doctor- I don’t know if that’s true.[00:12:38] You’ve been doing a lot recently ... you’re alw- always the one the kids are with on the weekends. Though you’re always the one-[00:12:43] Malcolm Collins: He’s started coding.[00:12:44] Simone Collins: I, I, well, look, we need to, we need to get something to work there, and you’re doing a really great job. But you are amazing- Well, I mean, we are happy- ... and I appreciate you[00:12:56] Malcolm Collins: I’ve built out all of the core features. Right now we’re just working on extra stuff, like a integrated email management feature, which- We’re very excited about ... hopefully save... I mean, w- if I can get email off of my daily to-do list, that would save me so much time.[00:13:09] Simone Collins: Same. Yeah, especially, yeah, ‘cause w- now there’s more coming in than we can manage, but we still don’t wanna not read everyone’s message.[00:13:16] So if we just make it slightly more efficient, and you’re making it crazy more efficient. Anyway, let’s go into the next article which is titled The Most Important Way that Fatherhood Has Changed. Mm. In this article, Frank Bruni, who is a childless contributing opinion writer who’s been on staff-[00:13:33] Malcolm Collins: Why?[00:13:34] Why did they let a childless writer write this?[00:13:36] Simone Collins: Well, so I think he believes that he is in a position to talk about fatherhood because he’s talking about it from a removed perspective. In this article he talks about- Mm ... the difference between the way his father raised him and his brother, and the way- Mm.[00:13:53] Mm ... and his brothers, and the way that his brothers have in turn raised their children. And he talks about how fathers are spending more time with their kids now. He cites an article that suggests one reason fertility is lower is that men want to give the kids they do have more attention- Lame ... which he frames as a good thing,[00:14:12] Malcolm Collins: and- Don’t spend time with your kids.[00:14:13] Walk up, hit ‘em, walk away. Oh, my God. That’s, whether they’ve done something bad or not. Yeah. Kids love being hit.[00:14:18] Simone Collins: No, honestly, they, our, our kids really do. They really like fighting. They- And if you don’t do it, they’ll start it so that you do do it. Octavia- Watch out, ‘cause they hit hard ...[00:14:26] Malcolm Collins: dropping on the floor to try to kick me in the nuts in the store.[00:14:28] Simone Collins: What?[00:14:30] Malcolm Collins: This is a real thing that just happened yesterday.[00:14:35] Simone Collins: Yeah, all these other pliant children in their shopping carts. Octavian coming in for the kill. Classic. But yeah this again is, is I think that constant theme. This is why the progressive left is, is choosing to relinquish its position in the future.[00:14:49] There is this choice to indulgently spend more time investing in children. But I think what’s really telling about his article is that the examples he cites on like, well, here’s this valuable additional investment that these children have vis-a-vis his 90-something-year-old father who is just a provider.[00:15:09] These, these parents are getting emotionally involved in their kids’ lives, and they are... here’s one example. He wrote, “Mark,” and this is his brother, “Mark encouraged his children to let him in by inviting them- To understand him. He made sure that they met and mingled with his adult friends, and thus observed how he tended relationships and what they meant to him.[00:15:30] He also showed his children his passions. “I took Frank to a Grateful Dead concert when he was 12,” Mark told me, referring to his oldest son, who like me, is named after my father. But that outing wasn’t just characteristically ardent Deadhead evangelism and, well, unorthodox parenting. It reflected Mark’s sustained effort to expand the time that he and his, and Frank spent together.[00:15:51] The more hours, the more conversation, the more, the more conversation, the greater the likelihood of serendipitous revelations- Why see a dad going to a- ... real [00:16:00] familiarity, deeper connection. So basically, this father was like, “This is my passion. Witness me.” And you know, he made his son go and listen. And listen, I like Grateful Dead music.[00:16:10] I thought I was a Deadhead when I was a kid, ‘cause my father too shared his Grateful Dead passion with me. But it wasn’t that aspect of my growing up with him that was actually helpful. What, what he’s missing here, what Frank Bruni is missing I think, is that investment in children is not all equal.[00:16:24] The investment in children in their careers, in the way that like Benjamin Franklin’s father invested in him, walking him along the street, showing him different trades, asking him what stood out to him. The way that my dad, for example, invested in me. Taking me to work with him, helping me get jobs teaching me what business m- meetings look like, taking me to trade shows.[00:16:40] Like, this, this is really valuable investment, and this is stuff that I think parents are really missing. You know, they’re, they’re treating children like pets. Like this thing where like, “Oh, you’re gonna see how I, you know, my friends, and I’m gonna raise you to be this indulgent, happy person, and we’re gonna be like emotionally so close.”[00:16:59] And it’s true that younger generations now are closer like friends to their parents than ever before, but they’re also more mentally sick. And I don’t know- Yeah ... like there’s, there’s no proven causation. There is this- But it’s not great ...[00:17:10] Malcolm Collins: optimization of closeness without thought for the long-term negative effects.[00:17:15] That’s not great ... and there are going to be long-term negative effects for the way that they’re raising their kids like this. And worse, the way he’s spending money. Look, a father going to a concert? W- what? Paying for a ticket for your kid? That is not sustainable if you have a large family.[00:17:32] Simone Collins: Yeah, and, and way to...[00:17:33] Hopefully he had him wear earplugs. That’s a very easy path to early hearing loss, which is not, not great. But yeah, here’s... The next one made me so angry because we, you know, have personally tried so hard for there to be, to encourage the existence of and, and foster the growth of progressive or left-leaning at least pronatalists.[00:17:59] And yet here is one, and- Scott Galloway ... the New York Times opinion is, yeah, Scott Galloway defenestrating him for holding a very practical and pragmatic view vis-à-vis paternity leave. So in this particular opinion piece, Jessica Grove or sorry, Grose, who is a, she is a mother, but she’s a woman of, of two children in Brooklyn.[00:18:21] She denounces Scott Galloway’s stance on paternity leave. And again, see, Scott Galloway, he, he considers himself, I think, more like center-left or a social capitalist, but he’s still as far, as far as it can get when, when you’re left-leaning and pronatalist.[00:18:38] Yeah.[00:18:38] And in this interview with Derek Thompson-[00:18:40] Galloway said, quote, “I think there should be mandatory maternity leave because I think the species needs to propagate. I’m not sure there should be mandatory paternity leave. I think it sometimes creates resentment. I think sometimes it’s abused. And so I’m a bit capitalist here. I think it’s between the company but I don’t know if I immediately default to, oh, the father needs to be there.”[00:19:04] Grose added, this is the au- the author of the op-ed. Galloway also commented that he doesn’t think men should be in the delivery room. Quote, “I thought that it was so disgusting and unnatural,” he says. When I asked Galloway if he had a response to the backlash he’s been getting over these comments, he said over email, “My comments were intentionally provocative in the context of a friendly, snarky conversation with Derek.”[00:19:28] Which It’s s- it, it’s like exactly the kind of thing that I think many fathers can relate to. And making these conversations open and transparent I think is crucial and important. Like, w- when people pretend that like the birthing experience is beautiful, especially for men-[00:19:47] Malcolm Collins: Ugh. I don’t- That, that- I do not go.[00:19:49] My wife doesn’t have me come to the delivery room. Like, I mean, you-[00:19:51] Simone Collins: Well, yeah, and there was the one time where you were in, in with me with the C-section, and you were like, look. Like you were so uncomfortable. And, and trying to force this on men, or even [00:20:00] worse, to sell them this fantasy of like you’re gonna love being a baby daddy, like a, a, a, a, a father of an infant.[00:20:06] You’re gonna love being in the delivery room. Will then set men up to think, “Oh, gosh, like I, I actually don’t like this, so this means I’m not gonna like to be a father at all.” Yeah,[00:20:16] Malcolm Collins: I’m not gonna like all the other stuff.[00:20:18] Simone Collins: And actually in, in his, in his talk, Galloway makes it clear that it gets better.[00:20:25] So I’ll keep going. Sh- so she also noted in her op-ed I’m reading from it now, “Poor Derek Thompson tried to push back and launch a defense of parental leave. Most of the gap between prime age adult male and female earnings is a motherhood penalty, and so one benefit of paternity leave is that it puts men and women on a relatively more equal standing.”[00:20:46] To which Galloway replies, “By lowering the economic standards of a man?” Which is a super like valid retort.[00:20:53] Malcolm Collins: Reasonable point, yes.[00:20:54] Simone Collins: Yeah. She proceeded, however, to cite research finding that paid paternity leave in Quebec did not fix the motherhood penalty for women, nor did it substantially hurt men’s economic standards.[00:21:06] So good for you. But then she also attempts to exploit that not a baby man, which I talk about like there’s like 10% of men who are like they love babies. They just, infants, like they, they, they wanna hold them, et cetera, but like most men aren’t. But she tries to exploit his, Scott Galloway’s not, disinterest in babies with this.[00:21:27] She wrote, “It gets worse. Thompson, who is still glowing from the birth of his second child, shares a very sweet story and, and how he feels an enormous upsurge of instinct how to parent my child. Thompson adds, ‘I love discovering a new piece of myself in parenting.’ Galloway doesn’t even seem to be listening to Thompson because his response is- The bad news is it just sucks for the dad.[00:21:49] We pretend to like it. Galloway thinks dads are full of it when they say they like babies. They’re awful. As a new dad, your job is to make sure your moms don’t lose it, and get some sleep, and keep the baby away from bodies of water. That’s literally your only two jobs right now, or if the only two things that you’re any good at.[00:22:08] At about two or three it starts to get less awful, and then by four or five it almost becomes fun. That’s what Scott Galloway said, and she’s quoting him in her article. And I think you would, like, you have said almost the same thing, and other very pro-natalist and kid-loving fathers that we know and trust and love, who are very culturally different from us as well, have said the same thing, that they’re just not into kids before they turn, like, five basically.[00:22:31] And then, like-[00:22:31] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and then they get awesome.[00:22:33] Simone Collins: Yeah. And so that this woman is shaming Scott Galloway for expressing an extremely pervasive view held by fathers, and making Galloway seem like kind of a monster for doing so is It’s both, like, unfair and un- and, and, and f- and fairly cruel, but also I would argue pretty anti-natalist.[00:22:55] Because again, if you make men think- Yeah ... like, “Oh, this is not normal, this is bad, this must mean that I’ll ne- not like anything about being a father,” they might decide to get a vasectomy. They might decide to just give up on that and have just one kid. Well, the[00:23:08] Malcolm Collins: thing that really hit me recently is the day when I decided to go with you because you’re doing your next implantation, which we’ve done recently, so hopefully you’re pregnant.[00:23:15] Everyone be praying. Fingers[00:23:16] Simone Collins: crossed ...[00:23:17] Malcolm Collins: and getting in the car and driving out, and I realized at no point did it occur to me to not do this. At no point- Hmm ... did I sit down and think, “Do I really want another kid? Can we really afford another kid? Does this make sense for our family?” It was just a regular yearly activity happening when it happened.[00:23:37] And it reminded me, in the same way when we read that piece about the early stage abortion and the I Met My Husband at a Gang Bang episode. Watch that episode if you want to. It’s traumatizing. But, Mm ... that was when the radicalized Simone against early stage abortion. If y- if you haven’t seen it, watch.[00:23:53] It’s w- I think one of our craziest episodes. It’ll start with you being all mad if you’re a conservative, and then you’re like, “Wait, this is c- what? [00:24:00] What?” But- Mm. Mm. Mm ... when she went to have an abortion, there was no moment leading up to the abortion that she really considered keeping the baby. It was-[00:24:11] Simone Collins: Yeah, there was...[00:24:12] It was unthinkable. Of course. Just like it’s unthinkable for us not to try for kid six, yeah.[00:24:17] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I realized that that’s the way it needs to be. Like, not having kids needs to be completely unthinkable in a marriage. That is how you make this work for you, for your kids, for the way you make this work.[00:24:29] In the same way that... And, and when do we start? In fact, let’s just lay this out. When do you start with intechno-puritanism? At the maximum, whether or not you’re financially stable, two years after you’re married.[00:24:43] Simone Collins: Yeah, that makes sense. Oi. Yeah.[00:24:46] Malcolm Collins: And if you, and if you, and if you can start before that, better[00:24:50] Simone Collins: Yeah, the sooner, the sooner the better, for sure.[00:24:53] Yeah. It just, so that’s super unfair. She, she also imposes another unfair implication on Scott Galloway. She says, “Scott Galloway is entitled to his feelings about parenting babies. I’m sure he’s not alone.” Oh, you’re sure. “But what I’m objecting to is the unsaid implication that it’s super fun for moms all the time, while also talking to a man who seems to be wholeheartedly enjoying his small children.”[00:25:21] First, he’s not implying that it’s fun for moms all the time. What he’s implying when he’s like, “Oh, you can only do two things: try to get some sleep and, like, make sure the baby’s not close to bodies of water,” is that, like, mothers are dependent or, like, the ones who have the, the breast milk. Like, you can’t really substitute that.[00:25:37] I mean, I, you, you can obviously do formula or you can feed bottles of breast milk, but if, if a woman is lactating, like, you can’t lactate for her. You can’t really do that. And women who are newly postpartum have also gone through a bunch of hormonal shifts, which I would argue make them more tolerant of sleep deprivation, make them more capable of not being super stressed about taking care of a screaming infant in the middle of the night or something like that than a father was.[00:26:03] I mean, things do change when you become a father, but not in the same way they do for someone who’s been pregnant for nine months. So I just think it’s not, it’s not even fair. And then she frames his statement, As elitist. When he tries to defend himself when given a chance to comment on this article she, she wrote, “When I asked Galloway if he was familiar with any of his research, she said, ‘My point wasn’t that...’[00:26:26] Or sorry, he said, Galloway said, ‘My point wasn’t that maternity leave is bad. It’s that we should be honest about trade-offs and let families make decisions based on their circumstances rather than treating one model as morally superior.’” Which she’s clearly doing. She’s like, “Well- Yeah ... maternity leave is, is categorically better.[00:26:43] There’s no, there’s no ambiguity. The studies say-”[00:26:46] Malcolm Collins: Nuance.[00:26:47] Simone Collins: Yeah. There’s, there’s no nuance there. But, but he is, he is elitist because she’s like, “Well, not everyone has that choice.” And she, she finishes with, “I don’t think it’s unusual for men. to find childbirth uncomfortable or scary , to watch, and becoming a dad is a rough transition for many.[00:27:10] There’s a whole genre of internet videos of dads passing out in the delivery room.” Which I now need to explore. But-[00:27:16] Malcolm Collins: Wait, really?[00:27:17] Simone Collins: I, yeah, I need, I need to check this out. “I don’t think that saying that watching women give birth is, quote, ‘disgusting and unnatural,’ end quote, is the best way to start this conversation.[00:27:27] Galloway told me in an email, ‘The broader point I was making, clumsily, is that we should be honest about the different experiences people have rather than the perspectives about what every father must feel or do. Some dads experience profound bonding in the first few weeks. Others find their stride later.[00:27:43] Both are valid.’” And she says- Good talk, Galloway ... he wholeheartedly agrees with that statement, but only after an article criticizing him for it. And Galloway’s making such an important point that, you know, you’re not, not all dads feel this, like, love at first sight thing with their kids. Yeah. Like y- you really don’t.[00:27:59] You’re [00:28:00] like, “I need a paternity test. I don’t know about this.” Like, and that’s natural. You are the most loving dad I’ve ever met. You adore our children. Like sometimes when I am like, “I, I, I need a moment,” you, you really don’t. Y- you’re just always there for them. Yeah,[00:28:14] Malcolm Collins: I’m never like, “I need a moment.”[00:28:15] I’m always available for the kids.[00:28:17] Simone Collins: Yeah. L- and then that’s- But you’re still, you’re not a baby man. And it’s, so, so that’s the thing, is like she’s communicating this, this, this really bad lie. So anyway, this is, yeah, facet number three is the one leftist pronatalist who has a really big profile gets defenestrated[00:28:37] Malcolm Collins: for- Defenestrated by The New York Times[00:28:38] Simone Collins: sharing realistic policy positions and trying to make men who don’t love babies not feel like they’re just gonna be bad fathers and not suited to be parents at all. Okay? Great. Thanks, New York Times. So now we get to the new right’s very old vision of men. This is an episode of the Ezra Klein Show with Helen Lewis.[00:28:56] They discuss this concept she wrote about and refers to as masculinism. So they, they open with clips of Bronze Age Pervert and Tucker Carlson, who are yearning for the ancient Hittite Empire, or ancient Mittani Empire, or what we had before Betty Friedan wrote The Feminine Mystique and before-[00:29:15] Malcolm Collins: But we need to talk about this, ‘cause this is just not...[00:29:17] But question, Simone, question.[00:29:19] Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah.[00:29:20] Malcolm Collins: Total side note. Should I get Octavian another Game Boy emulator?[00:29:24] Simone Collins: Well, he was really jealous of Tex’s chew toy that looks like a Game Boy,[00:29:29] Malcolm Collins: so. It’s $59. I, they, the-[00:29:31] Simone Collins: Oh, you’re just browsing Prime Day ... the one I’m thinking[00:29:35] Malcolm Collins: about. I was-[00:29:35] Simone Collins: I was wondering why a white light reflected in those glasses of yours[00:29:39] Malcolm Collins: I know. Hold, you gotta listen to me. This is actually important. So it, it turns out that it, the, the model that’s the best and the most robust, because I, that’s what specifically what I’m looking for, is not discounted for Prime Day, which doesn’t cost that much. And-[00:29:53] Simone Collins: Oh, because we have time.[00:29:54] Malcolm Collins: No, we-[00:29:55] Simone Collins: Look, he broke it.[00:29:55] They break everything. I, I don’t think we need to teach him- Well,[00:29:59] Malcolm Collins: that’s why I’m trying to get something more robust ...[00:30:01] Simone Collins: when we break something you just get a new one.[00:30:03] Malcolm Collins: He broke it over a year ago at this point. Come on.[00:30:08] Simone Collins: See, you’re more forgiving than I am. Oh, sir.[00:30:10] Malcolm Collins: So we’ll let the audience decide.[00:30:12] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:30:12] Does our kid- The audience will decide. Yeah, yes or no to the... Please no, Tex. Oh my God. So, right. So basically they open with these, you know, right, right-leaning influencers, although Tucker Carlson, I think just to be clear, he’s not a Republican about, like, yearning for the, the earlier days. What they argue essentially in this episode trying to basically encapsulate and then comment on the broader, like, masculinity sphere, is that there is this coherent masculinist ideology on the American light, right, sorry, the American right, that goes way beyond just, like, manosphere provocateurs like Andrew Tate.[00:30:52] That the central claim of masculinism is that modernity is, is broken, especially for men. It is, it is thwarted masculinity. There’s dropping testosterone. There’s dropping fertility. Men are ill-suited for this kind of society, and they, Think that true masculinity centers around hierarchy and dominance and risk-taking and clear gender roles with male breadwinners- Well, this,[00:31:18] Malcolm Collins: this is all true[00:31:20] Simone Collins: and then they, they point to figures like Raw Egg Nationalist, who we consider to be a friend and really like. Bronze Age Pervert, Helen Andrews, who wrote the Foundation[00:31:29] Malcolm Collins: for- Oh,[00:31:29] Simone Collins: by the way, we’ve had Raw Egg[00:31:30] Malcolm Collins: Nationalist on the show. If anyone has a contact to Milo or Bronze Age Pervert, I’d love to have both of them on the show.[00:31:35] Simone Collins: Truly. They include JD Vance in all this, Doug Wilson parts of Heritage’s agenda. And we love Heritage Foundation, so, like, we take this all very personally. They talk about various concerns expressed with mac- masculinism. I think their, their primary criticism, and it is abundant. They s- I- they, they spend a lot of time.[00:31:55] This is, like, all that was playing in my office all afternoon. They don’t like... [00:32:00] They think it has incoherent intellectualism. Klein keeps finding that there’s less here than I thought be- beneath this, for his, for his stance, grand talk of thumos and Nietzsche and liberal decadence, and the arguments often collapse, per his argument, into trivial lifestyle advice like, “Throw out your plastic chopping board,” or conspiratorial hormone politics.[00:32:26] Or as Bronze Age Pervert would write, “w***e-mones.” They- W***e-mones. W***e-mones. Yes, he knows[00:32:32] what’s up.[00:32:33] He knows what’s up. They argue that a lot of the literature swaps serious argument for just trolling or irony and vibes. Meaning that it’s, it’s- No,[00:32:41] Malcolm Collins: they miss it. They don’t understand what’s happening.[00:32:44] Simone Collins: Yeah, they, they don’t, they don’t yeah, they, they just sort of completely misread it. Like, they don’t understand the trolling. They don’t understand the aesthetics.[00:32:53] Malcolm Collins: If you watch our show, you will note that a lot of our show is trolling feeling. Yeah. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a lot of substance to it.[00:33:02] There is[00:33:03] Simone Collins: substance. There is research. There is-[00:33:08] The trolling is authenticating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the, yeah, the trolling is a, a sign of authenticity and a way to socially signal what we’ve called, I think, what, performative vice to say, like, we are gen- like, that we’re doing the opposite of vir- virtue signaling. Like, signaling vice to the extent that it will hurt our reputation just to show you that we have no desire to be seen as good or smart for example.[00:33:30] Of course, they also highlight the movement’s misogyny. They, and this is actually the argument that F- Misogyny? Come on ... that we’ve also made. Yeah.[00:33:38] Malcolm Collins: Dude, literally. The reason, like, we have no misogynistic opinion The only reason we don’t want women to vote is because they keep voting for the wrong candidate. I, I’m joking of course. The real reason why it’s bad for women to vote is because if voting is a proxy for force, so basically the reason you vote is, like, if you went to war, who would actually win of the two perspectives?[00:34:05] And women wouldn’t be included in that fighting force. Then eventually you create an asymmetry where it may make sense for a faction of the population to just capture power via war. So suppose, as is increasingly happening, all of the women are sorting into one population bloc- voting bloc, and all the men are voting for another candidate, and then the male candidate loses, and then the men just say, “Well, f**k it.[00:34:26] I don’t care anymore.” And this is why democracy prevents that, but it doesn’t prevent it when you allow women to vote.[00:34:32] Simone Collins: Right. And, but they, they... In- instead of hearing this, like, let’s talk about the misaligned incentives and how this is all playing out, what they just see and what they talk about in their podcast is like, this...[00:34:44] They, they’re just anti-democracy and they’re just pro-violence. And they don’t really go deeper than that because they just... I, maybe they lack the capacity to read this more closely. Like, you really have to be looking at the problems in a very critical way. Well, they still acknowledge the problems.[00:34:58] Like, they acknowledge that boys are, are completely, you know, maladapted for the schools the way they’re set up now. They, they acknowledge that there’s a health crisis and there’s too much sedentary life and everything. So they, they say that these are very real issues, but then they criticize the movement for Using it to exploit young men, for example with this sort of, like, self-helpishness that isn’t actually self-help.[00:35:22] It, the long story short, ‘cause I could go into so much more detail, is that this, this is a podcast that has huge, huge viewership, that’s, that is made by very thoughtful people, Ezra Klein is, is very thoughtful and I think very well-meaning. But it’s still trying to frame this movement that is questioning modern norms in a way that isn’t intended to damage its credibility and stifle conversation about those genuine problems which they even acknowledge to be real.[00:35:53] Which I think is very annoying and grating. But also because they’re not dedicated to actually solving these problems in a [00:36:00] way that could lead to inconvenient truths surfacing. Again, they’re representative of a group that is not likely to inherit the future. Yeah. So there’s these different facets of the way that The New York Times is trying to cover masculinity.[00:36:13] They’re trying to cover it by defenestrating the one leftist pronatalist and, and practical parental leave policies. They’re trying to... I’m so sorry about Tex. Tex, friend. You, like, you’re not distressed, you just, you just wanna troll me and maybe you’re tired. They’re trying to under- undermine masculinity by having a, a woman write about Father’s Day and a trans man write about Father’s Day.[00:36:41] And they’re, they’re trying to undermine masculinity by having a, yeah, like the person on X pointed out, a childless man decide what good parenting is and, and proclaim it in The New York Times opinion section. It’s, it’s weird. I don’t know if, like, there’s been some concerted effort to talk about masculinity and to be like, “This[00:37:04] Malcolm Collins: is-” I almost wonder if it’s, like, a reaction to the pushback from the first piece.[00:37:08] Like, we’re just gonna go extra hard on this now that we’ve gotten pushback or...[00:37:13] Simone Collins: What, what do you think? No, because I mean, I, I think these things required some research and scheduling and prep to put together. I don’t know if it’s just this, like, immune system, like it, like, it could be, and I, I’ve been thinking about it as some kind of collective immune system response, right?[00:37:27] That the, the white blood cells have recognized the, the virus that is this, this new movement broadly of, of fighting back against urban monoculture masculinity, and the immune system is now attempting to kill the virus by saying, “No, this is what fatherhood is. This is what masculinity is. This is what correct[00:37:49] Malcolm Collins: parenting is.”[00:37:50] Well, masculinity doesn’t involve men. I mean, that seems to be the point of this, right? They- Yeah.[00:37:55] Simone Collins: It doesn’t involve men and it doesn’t involve fathers and it doesn’t involve genuinely trying to Question the broken systems at play that are harmful toward both men and women. It’s very frustrating, but there you go.[00:38:13] It’s wild. I still really enjoyed the sick burns from the kid, ‘cause I love sick burns from the kid.[00:38:17] Malcolm Collins: Legit, just burning the train. Yeah, but like, I mean, we see where this is going. Like, it’s very concerning. It’s very concerning to me that, like, we can’t have an honest conversation around the things that don’t seem to be working as a society, and are just supposed to go along with it.[00:38:38] Just supposed to be like, “Oh, yeah, this, this is all fine. This is all working. We, we can look at the outcomes and see how f*****g terrible they are.” But nope. We’ll just go along with it[00:38:49] Simone Collins: Yeah, I don’t know what to say aside from I can see why people on X were so mad. Now I understand. But also, maybe we’re gonna have to reach a point where maybe, guys, we don’t need to read The New York Times.[00:39:02] I don’t, I don’t know.[00:39:04] Malcolm Collins: I mean, The New York Times readership is basically a contraceptive at this point, right? Like, if you re- I used to love The New York Times. It was one of my favorite newspapers. But, We all,[00:39:12] Simone Collins: well, we did it all, I guess,[00:39:13] Malcolm Collins: but- That future is over, right? Like, that world is over. The world of The New York Times is not the world of the future of humans, right?[00:39:22] We are the future of humanity. We, as hard as they fight back against this, I was telling Simone today that Nux got demonetized across YouTube, across all his channels.[00:39:32] Simone Collins: I’m so mad.[00:39:32] Malcolm Collins: And they said harassment. I watch Nux’s channel. He doesn’t harass anyone as far as I’ve seen. He, he very rarely makes specific call-outs except for Hasan.[00:39:41] I guess if it’s harassment against Hasan, okay. That, the- Touché ... the delicate little flower needed protection from Nux. But Hasan regularly- Oh ... harasses other people, right? Like, so I mean, that’s scary. That’s scary to be on a platform that can just do that when you’re following all of their rules [00:40:00][00:40:00] Simone Collins: I hope he gets monetized again.[00:40:03] This, this reminds me actually of what happened to Leaflet when you included a clip of our kids being, our kids being the, you know, insane reavers they are and you being like, “You b******s,” Yeah, you little b******s is what they said. And, and I think they, I think they referred to that as hate speech.[00:40:20] Malcolm Collins: No, they said I was, like, a- attacking children or something.[00:40:23] Simone Collins: Yeah, wasn’t it bullying? Calling them little b******s. I think it was, I think it was exactly the same moderation reason, though-[00:40:27] Malcolm Collins: Mm ...[00:40:28] Simone Collins: as what Leaflet saw when hers was demonetized. So.[00:40:32] Malcolm Collins: I mean, I don’t, when you say it, but it’s the standard trans approach, you know?[00:40:36] And the fun thing is, is like I’d actually be okay if somebody figured out a way to make transness demographically stable, right? Like, if you’re a trans person and you’re watching this and you’re like, well, like let’s, let’s... Can I make it demographically stable? Fine, like go for it. That’d be great.[00:40:51] Simone Collins: In the Culture Series it is.[00:40:52] So in Ian Banks’ Culture Series I think a lot of humans, because the, the body’s modified so much that if you want to grow a uterus, you, like over a series of months can just grow that organ and then shift your hormone, because you have a, you have a drug gland. Every, every Culture citizen has the option to install a drug gland which can at any point, like release a variety of different mind-altering compounds.[00:41:15] Like, you can just instantly get drunk when you want to get st- a stimulant when you need it. Like, it has, it’s just an, an endogenous drug producing gland. That means you can also endogenously for the most part I think, produce everything you need to in order to transition your gender. And there are characters that are featured in the Culture Series who at points in their lives like decided to become a man for like a couple years, and become a woman for a couple years.[00:41:39] And that’s a version of transness where like y- you genuinely could with this drug gland grow a uterus, have a baby Get rid of the uterus, turn into a man again. It, and I, I wouldn’t, like, it’s, it’s theoretically possible. You could possibly, plausibly have some kind of, like, with really, really advanced technology, you could have this, right?[00:42:09] Malcolm Collins: Theoretically, yes.[00:42:10] Simone Collins: Theoretically. So okay, that, that is my version. My version of an, an ideal future is basically just the, the culture though. I’m, I’m obsessed. What is tech- Yeah, like I[00:42:19] Malcolm Collins: don’t- What is this mood? As society changes, my views on this would change. As technology changes, my views on this would change.[00:42:26] But right now the wider culture around the trans phenomenon is so toxic and so damaging, I just have to take the stance that if only to distance yourself from that wider culture, it’s better not to transition, right? Like, no- no matter how much you feel that you would benefit from it, because the culture will attempt to...[00:42:50] Like, if you transition and then you have an opinion that’s not an approved opinion, or even the average opinion of the community shifts and now your previously approved opinion falls in the unapproved category, you get thrown in the gutter, no matter how much you’ve done for the community. I mean, look at how the community treats Caitlyn Jenner.[00:43:08] Look at how the community treats Buck Angel, the, the two real, like, out in front advocates for it, right? Like, there, there is no respite in the community. Look at how the community treats Ana Valens. Did you know that Ana Valens ended up being canceled by leftists? This, this was this year.[00:43:24] Simone Collins: Oh, gosh.[00:43:24] Malcolm Collins: For, can you guess what? Can you guess why she was canceled?[00:43:29] Simone Collins: Well, I, I’m sure it had something to do with her general oversharing, but I can’t quite tell what.[00:43:32] Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no. What would be literally the craziest clown worldest reason for her to be canceled?[00:43:38] Simone Collins: Her giantess interest?[00:43:40] Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. Literally the craziest.[00:43:42] Simone Collins: Ah.[00:43:44] Malcolm Collins: Being a Kirsha fan.[00:43:48] Simone Collins: Aw.[00:43:49] Malcolm Collins: She’s not a Kirsha fan, by the way. She tried to destroy Kirsha’s life, but the left doesn’t care about what’s true. She did an article about why Pippa wasn’t so bad [00:44:00] compared to Kirsha, and somehow people got confused and thought she was a Kirsha fan, and Blue Sky just ran with that[00:44:11] Simone Collins: Blue Sky seems like the most toxic but too boring to find amusing place in the entire internet Is there a moment where, like, you wake up[00:44:20] Malcolm Collins: and you’re like, “Wait, did I choose the wrong team? Did, did I choose the everybody stab everybody in the back team?”[00:44:28] Simone Collins: Mm. I don’t know, man. It’s very frustrating.[00:44:34] Malcolm Collins: But look- I like that you brought these to my att- oh, now he’s asleep?[00:44:37] Simone Collins: You see... Yeah. He just, he just, he needs to, like, scream and scream. This is what I say when he, like, has to yell himself to sleep and then[00:44:46] Malcolm Collins: he’s out. And[00:44:46] Simone Collins: you’re like, “Oh.” Right when I need to get up and make dinner.[00:44:50] Malcolm Collins: Right when you need to get up and make dinner. Well, I’m sure you’ll be able to make dinner even more obediently-[00:44:56] because of this, Simone. Which is really what all of us care about here, right?[00:45:01] Simone Collins: Right? I need to know my place, because we are... Oh, God. Let me look at my notes. What did Helen Lewis call them? I love Helen Lewis. This is the problem. I find her very funny and fun. She calls it masculinism. Yes, because we are masculinists, and so my job is in the kitchen making- Well,[00:45:21] Malcolm Collins: as, as a masculinist, I’m gonna get our kid another game console, ‘cause he deserves one- Oh.[00:45:26] for being a sweetie. What?[00:45:29] Simone Collins: He is a sweetie. How can we, how can we deny him? Plus, he is our son. Our sons must have everything.[00:45:36] Malcolm Collins: Yes. Not our daughters. I’m not getting one for our daughters.[00:45:39] Simone Collins: She’s a shark princess. She will take it from you.[00:45:41] Malcolm Collins: She has made that very clear in recent episodes. I had a... One of the ends of a recent episode where she was talking about how she will only eat some color fishes.[00:45:52] Not her favorite color, but, like- Oh, yeah ... gray fishes. And then she makes an eating, a, a show of how she’s gonna eat them. And then she’ll eat divers like me. She explicitly points at me. Like, not regular people. She’s like, “No, you.”[00:46:09] Simone Collins: It’s terrible ‘cause it’s rubbing off on, on her little sister Indy, and now Indy’s just all about being defiant when she used to be my little, my little turkey.[00:46:18] Doing- She’d be my little helper. She would bus her table. She’s still obsessed with cleaning, though. I, I, I need to- ... pretend that that’s subversive.[00:46:26] My spray bottle.[00:46:27] My spray bottle.[00:46:29] My sp- Wait, Indy fights back now?[00:46:32] Why? I wanna cleaning. Because I think she sees all her siblings do it, and she wants to be like her big n- big brothers and sister.[00:46:40] Malcolm Collins: That’s really sweet. I wanna cleaning. You did a good job making these little monsters.[00:46:45] Simone Collins: Yeah, well, she used to clean, and now she just uses her spray bottle to attack people, so.[00:46:51] Malcolm Collins: And I demand praise for the expensive microphone, guys. I got a...[00:46:55] Simone Collins: Yeah. Now you’ve listened to Tex screaming in your ear. How do you feel now?[00:47:01] Do you want me to go back to the old one? Do, do you, do you, did I do the right thing? Are you happy now? Are you hap- are you happy now?[00:47:11] Malcolm Collins: Oh my God, you are so... Look, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be good about this. I’m even or- ordering it slow so we get the 7% back.[00:47:20] Simone Collins: Thank you, actually. I always do that. I did that for these ‘cause they cost the, as much as our house.[00:47:30] Malcolm Collins: What, what- So we- What cost-[00:47:31] Simone Collins: I, I... Oh, no, I didn’t do it with these. I didn’t do it with the microphones.[00:47:35] Aw. No,[00:47:38] Malcolm Collins: but we needed these quickly.[00:47:39] Simone Collins: Yeah, we did. For you g- for you guys. For you a******s.[00:47:46] Okay.[00:47:47] Malcolm Collins: We gotta get more swords while they’re on sale. Swords, flamethrowers- All[00:47:51] Simone Collins: right, I need to- ... nails, chases ... Frank, I need to end. I’m sorry, Tex. All right. Before he starts screaming, we’re gonna, we’re gonna hit end here. Love you guys. All right, love you. [00:48:00] Bye. I love you, Malcolm.[00:48:01] Malcolm Collins: Love you too.[00:48:02] Simone Collins: You’re my special sub pony[00:48:06] Malcolm Collins: Oh, but I think Texas.[00:48:07] Look at that, he’s getting all the love, not me.[00:48:09] Simone Collins: You’re, you’re, he’s a, he’s shards of your soul, Malcolm. He’s here, and he’s made of you.[00:48:17] Yeah. Okay,[00:48:18] Malcolm Collins: bye. But you guys need to become dads too. So find a wife, work really hard.[00:48:22] Simone Collins: Yeah, become a dad. Don’t, don’t expect to love labor and delivery. And don’t expect to love babies. But if you[00:48:28] Malcolm Collins: do, that’s great. And if you’re a woman watching this, go to the freaking Discord. There’s some guy there who will wife you up.[00:48:34] Simone Collins: There’s some great guys in the Discord who are very[00:48:36] Malcolm Collins: interesting. Or better, among our paid users. That’s, that’s where you know you get the big spenders, right? The real professionals.[00:48:41] Simone Collins: Yes. No, true, true. That’s how you know they are financially secure.[00:48:45] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh, yeah, we should I... Yeah, actually, if you wanna, if you’re a woman looking we, we should, like, be able to email all the paid subscribers women who are looking for husbands.[00:48:53] I don’t[00:48:53] Simone Collins: know. Should we do... Locked and Reported does, like, o- once a year, some kind of singles thing.[00:49:01] Malcolm Collins: No, I think because we’re majority male just female only if you’re looking for a husband. Mm-hmm.[00:49:06] Simone Collins: Oh, we should have just, like, some kind of directory of profiles.[00:49:10] Malcolm Collins: No. We, we should just do an email blast for paid subscribers.[00:49:14] Simone Collins: Okay, fine.[00:49:14] Malcolm Collins: You have all their emails. I’m sure most of them would appreciate even just knowing, like, even if they’re not, even if they’re married or whatever, they’d appreciate that we’re trying to get somebody married. And it’s another reason to subscribe.[00:49:27] Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. I’ll find a way. I’ll find a way to do this in a thoughtful way.[00:49:32] We’ll take advice. Okay, bye guys. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.[00:49:35] Bye. Bye.[00:49:35] Simone Collins: Tex ate like half a sleeve of Ritz crackers today. That, that’s a slight overstatement I can hear you But only slight He[00:49:41] Malcolm Collins: ate half a sleeve of Ritz[00:49:42] Simone Collins: crackers? He’s obsessed. He’s obsessed. He’s a man. He’s putting on the Ritz. It’s his- Putting[00:49:48] Malcolm Collins: on the Ritz? Yeah.[00:49:49] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:49:50] Malcolm Collins: And look, look, look, I got a Technofuriten knife, the first one.[00:49:56] Was able to get this on Amazon Day for 15 bucks, so it’s a good price for a- Prime[00:50:00] Simone Collins: Day, yeah ...[00:50:01] Malcolm Collins: stabby knife. Stabby. Significantly because it’s a, a bowie knife- It’s more slicey[00:50:05] Simone Collins: than stabby ...[00:50:06] Malcolm Collins: it’s significantly better than the, the ones that the Sikhs have, Oh, that’s wonderful, Tom ... in, in terms of a knife fight.[00:50:13] Great. Well, I mean, their knives were invented a long time before, it’s that they’re just not as sophisticated.[00:50:18] Simone Collins: Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, I feel like the LDS church would, if they had knives, update them with time. Maybe the Sikhs just haven’t had enough time, and then they’ll update The, it’s called the cure pen, right?[00:50:28] I’ll update[00:50:29] Malcolm Collins: it with pen. Yeah. Well, I mean, the, the Bowie knife is really the knife of the American frontier.[00:50:32] Simone Collins: Yeah.[00:50:32] Malcolm Collins: And so it is a traditional- ... American knife. It’s called the Amer- the, the Excalibur of the Americas, so. The[00:50:39] Simone Collins: Exca- That is amazing. I’ve not heard that.[00:50:41] Malcolm Collins: But I’ve already used it, like, multiple times.[00:50:43] I didn’t know how useful it would be to just have a knife on me at all times.[00:50:46] Simone Collins: My favorite part, though, was when you were trying to tell me the amazing history of the Bowie knife and the guy who invented it. You kept confusing his name. Because we, both you and I are terrible at names, but you kept calling him David Bowie[00:50:57] Malcolm Collins: David[00:50:57] Simone Collins: Bowie. I’m just blinded by that. Because every time I hear the name David Bowie, I, I get that one clip from Zoolander where it’s, “David Bowie,” and Let’s Dance flashes on real fast. It’s it’s great. It’s great. So now every time I see your knife, just so you know- And for dinner tonight- ... that clip from Zoolander plays in my head[00:51:15] Malcolm Collins: Any sort of a curry with french fries would be good, or,[00:51:18] Simone Collins: Okay ... any- Do you want sweet potato again, or you want, you want me to mix it up? You have a fry wardrobe now, basically, so is that what you, I[00:51:25] Malcolm Collins: mean, the sweet potatoes were fantastic. I would love to go for something[00:51:28] Simone Collins: else. A new curry and sweet potato?[00:51:30] Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah, the sweet potatoes works. Yeah. I mean, the, the-[00:51:33] Simone Collins: Or, or we have d- again, we have different fries. If you want different fries, we can try a different- Well,[00:51:37] Malcolm Collins: which ones do we have?[00:51:38] Simone Collins: Just- I don’t, I... The freezer’s not in front of me, but i- I think it’s a new one. It’s maybe one you got at Walmart that’s, like, a seasoned fry.[00:51:45] Malcolm Collins: Oh, I wanna try the seasoned fries. Let’s try those.[00:51:48] Simone Collins: Oh, boy. Tex, we got a new mic. You’re trying it out. Say[00:51:52] Malcolm Collins: your piece. Yes. Guys, we finally got those super expensive, like, $300 mics that everyone’s been telling us to get, the Shure Sevenss. [00:52:00] So, Yeah ... they better sound better, because they were very expensive, okay?[00:52:03] They were very[00:52:04] Simone Collins: expensive. But what have you guys done? We even got them on discount, and we were like, “I’m never going to financially recover from this.” So what have you done? What have you done?[00:52:11] Malcolm Collins: What have you done? But you, you guys wanted better audio, and now you’re gonna get-[00:52:15] Simone Collins: Yeah, now you’re gonna hear Tex screaming and drooling into your ear in-[00:52:20] Malcolm Collins: Well, that’s what you-[00:52:21] this audio vision, like, equivalent ... that’s what you get throughout the day, Simone. Come on.[00:52:24] Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. I guess that’s, I’m so sorry to all of you. I might put... I’m gonna, I’m gonna see if he can chill in his Snappi later while we’re out. Do[00:52:31] Malcolm Collins: I sound any different to you on here, Simone? No. But, you know, we don’t- I don’t hear it.[00:52:36] I don’t hear the difference between audio quality. Like, everyone else is like, “Audio this, audio this.” To me, we sound no different from Asma Gold. We sound no different from Nuggs. So that, that’s part of the problem- Oh, boy ... with, like, the audiophile is- He’s so upset ... I can’t hear the difference between Ah.[00:52:52] Simone Collins: He’s not happy Okay, am I gonna get him milk before we start?[00:52:58] Malcolm Collins: We’re g- we’re gonna start. Yes.[00:53:00] Simone Collins: He’s an angry elf. I’m, I’m not, you know, I can’t think when there’s a baby crying, so I will be-[00:53:04] Malcolm Collins: You will get him milk?[00:53:06] Speaker: deep into the jungle, guys?[00:53:11] Is this a jungle or woods?[00:53:21] And that’s called a temperate rainforest, guys This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe