Welcome leaders to this midweek special edition of the Life Group Leader podcast. We're bringing this one to you today as we are in the middle of our On the Table Servant series, which has been so impactful. We've really enjoyed hearing how you're navigating these conversations in your group. And we want to bring this to you to make sure that you continue to do that, to navigate the questions, the conversations that are coming up.
You guys are on the front lines, not just hearing these incredible sermons, which they certainly have been, but also bringing them through further discussion with your life groups. And so we're bringing this to you as we're just about to jump into week five of the sermon series. Up to this point, we've looked at some great conversations around, you know, how can I trust the Bible who is Jesus is Christianity oppressive towards women, minorities and others. Last week we heard from Ed Stetsz around the conversation of suffering.
And then over the next few weeks, we're going to be really looking at different aspects of sexuality. We're, as we said during the series, we're putting all the questions on the table, including, you know, what does God say about gender and sex and singleness and marriage. And so we want to really begin to prime you as you already are doing for handling these conversations with grace, with truth, because we know anytime you get people together from different backgrounds and experiences, we bring all those into our conversations and the melting pot of what it means to be centered around the gospel and truth in community. And so we know for you as a leader, and you are all about creating vulnerability and honesty within your groups.
And so we want to give you a few talking points now to help navigate these conversations in your groups over the next several weeks. And you're not just going to be hearing from me. I've got some experts on our team. So experts on the team, why don't you introduce yourselves and then we'll jump into our conversation.
Sounds good. This is Luan Sai. I am your friendly neighborhood care and recovery pastor. Thank you for having me on the podcast on.
Yeah. And my name is Dallas. I get the opportunity to do 20 30s in singles. Happy to be here.
Yeah. So you guys know these guys well. They're doing such incredible work. I mean, the one just want to spot you just for a minute.
Man, if we haven't seen already the On the Table Resource page, we are just so proud of the ways that we're able to offer not just great sermon content, all the workshops, seminars, equipping areas, you've been leading the charge on a lot of those. What we want to do now is kind of bring it down into the group level, right? So we're unpacking these great conversations. They're on the table.
Leaders, you are then on the other table, right? From the table, the weekend to your table around your home, talking about these incredible conversations. And so we want to just give you a few handles now. How do you navigate these conversations, right?
Knowing that you don't have to have the answers to everything. That's fantastic. Knowing that there's additional resources to point you to. But what do you do when you're in these conversations, whether it's not just around sexuality, but around the exclusivity of who Jesus is.
We're going to talk about the final week of the series is around hell, the doctor of hell. Like how do you have these conversations with in your group? You've got varying backgrounds and opinions about these things. And so we've got four handles that I want to invite Dallas and the one to kind of walk us through to help navigate these as leaders of the first one.
It should always be the first one. What's number one Dallas? What do we got? Listen well.
You got to listen. Yeah. That's the hardest part, right? Yeah, instead of into fix it.
Right. Yeah. We want to jump. We want to rescue.
We want to get our opinion in there. But why is that so important? Why does anything with group dynamics? Why should listening be our foundational first question?
Yeah, I think especially with difficult conversations, you want to see it as an opportunity to express the gospel through the process that you're taking. And so my advice with listening well is just to go slow. Slow things way down. Slowing down gives you a chance to listen to the Holy Spirit as you're listening to your group member.
I would pay attention to your non-verbals. Uncross your arms, lower your shoulders, release any pent-up tension, show interest by maintaining eye contact and don't get distracted. Listen actively, meaning don't interrupt, don't correct, don't talk over, don't react in any way. We often tend to react by diminishing what the other person's saying.
Like if they're saying like this has to be really wild up and I'm really frustrated and upset, you can say why? I think a lot of times we're tempted to say because of our own anxiety, oh I see that you're a little upset. That's not what that person's said. So I'm not going to mirror what the person's trying to tell us.
I think a great technique is actually that helps us slow down is to actually take the time to repeat back what you heard. There's nothing worse than being misunderstood. Exactly. You feel totally messed.
Putting categories and labels on what we assume what somebody's going to say based off of how they start to say things and they're processing. So it's pausing, reflecting back, that's really good. Exactly. We can jump to so many assumptions when we're brushing for sure.
We know from the human behavior research and all that movement and change really isn't possible within a relationship without that built rapport, without that trust and connection. So there's that whole parenting saying of there's no correction before connection. That's good. Not that we're there correct, but we are there to help each other further our thinking further our discipleship.
So you want to just take time. So what you want to do is let the person know that you're trying to understand them. Say something like let me see if I understood you correctly. You feel that x, y, z is a matter of fact and that reality is not agreed upon here.
Leads you're feeling really confused and frustrated. What you want to do is check in and see if you got that right. Give them that right. Give them that right.
Make them room and value honor and mutually submitting to each other through that respectful dialogue. So there's a great acronym that I like to keep in mind when I'm trying to do my best to listen well and that is it's wait times. So wait stands for why am I talking. And time stands for thoughts, images, memories, emotions and senses.
It reminds us to check in with ourselves that we're responding to the conversation at hand and not reacting instinctively to a past slide or trigger. Sometimes we have to also wait time to think our intention. Do I want this person to know that I'm really intelligent right now and know a lot about this topic or do I want to help them feel the way and embrace the boss. If we are going to be drawing from our past experiences we want to pause for a moment and to make sure we're drawing from wisdom and not from those unhealed parts of ourselves.
And so times, the times and the images and memories and emotions and senses, it actually also gives us a clue into how heightened and activated we're getting. So if we're paying attention to our senses, is my voice getting higher? Am I getting louder? Is my heart beating faster?
Is my body attention? That's all information that the Lord is trying to give you to help guide you to your next best choices. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, so just a few things.
Just a few things. I hope you're taking notes of this fantastic. What are you hearing, Del? I think just trying to find that great area is there a difference between, hey, I'm listening to you, I'm actively listening, but that doesn't mean I'm validating and agreeing with everything.
Sure. How do we not fall into that? Like, hey, I can listen to everything. That's so good.
But just because I'm actively listening doesn't mean I'm agreeing with everything you're saying. Right. Listening does not have to nor should equate to I'm affirming everything that's being said, but it's me getting time, it's me getting value for who you are, it's me seeing you as an individual as a person with real thoughts, dreams, help expectations and everything else. And in taking that and validating the person, the individual, you can do that in a way without validating the stance of what that person is bringing.
But that is tricky. Yeah. So just to release some of you who are listening, like, that's right. You can listen to someone in your group and be a really great listener without sort of aligning with every single thing that they say.
Totally. Totally. And which brings you to the next movement, right? The next movement is not then okay, you've got enough information, you've got their points.
Now this is a chance for you to bring all your counterpoints and bring it into alignment and it's your turn to bring the attack. That's not the second thing. The second thing is really important and we skip over this. I think sometimes I love that we have is find the common ground, find the common ground.
And along with you, he said, I had a little bit about the posture reflective listening because you can, you can find commonality in the person, their experiences, even their background, and in some cases, even their opinions, not always, but sometimes in their belief, you can find the common ground which kind of levels it a little bit, right? I think that helps to put the person not so much like on the attack or on the defensive when you can say, yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. This is what I've heard and this is, I've seen that too. You know what?
I've felt that I've experienced that maybe not in that way, but it helps to bring a commonality around that. For sure. Yeah. And I think one of the great gifts of creating that safe environment to listen is that you really get down to the level of emotions, right?
Right. And we can all relate to a time when we felt really, you know, you know, singled out or alone in our thoughts, right? Or alone in our experiences. And so I think that that's an opportunity to come alongside it and emotionally say, you know what?
I get that. I'm so sorry that you feel that way. Right. And so I think, and I think just even starting out the conversation, it's okay.
It can be very freeing. Like I was just saying to acknowledge the dynamics and the women say, man, this is a really complex topic. Our church and society isn't really used to having these kinds of conversations. So even thank you so much for being so courageous and wanting to engage in this with me and to start the conversation with me.
And we can start the conversation knowing that we don't have to like tie it up in a bow. Totally. Right. And there's a lot that we all don't know.
We're none of us are experts in this field. And so, and we're, you know, even the experts are, you know, not, not perhaps on the same page or come from the same perspective on even how to have conversations, right? So it's okay to feel a little, yeah, like our side is okay. Right.
Which is the third point here, which is a great one, right? So you're listening well, you're finding the common ground and be aware of and manage your leadership anxiety. Yeah. What do we mean by that?
I mean, you're teasing that out a little bit. That's what you think there. Yeah, I think tension and silence sometimes can be okay. Like even just leading rooted for all of you, for all your life, your leaders, you should try to be rooted at some point in the next year, because you really get, you dive right into this.
But group doesn't always have to enjoy. You don't always have to have the answers, like lead with humility. And some of the things that we said is loving is not the same thing as agreeing. One of the things that I always like to do when I have time to conflict, when I know there's going to be a challenging conversation or even before I go and facilitate rooted even this week is Lord help me see these people the same way you see them.
These are your children. It's good. Your blood covers in the same way that it covers me. So we're already on even playing around and they look to me like, I'll tell your pastor, you have all the answers.
Not even close. And I invite other people, conversations. I invite, I just have like questions ready to go. So what are some questions?
Take, can you tell me more about that? I always like defining. So when people are throwing something out, like, hey, can we make sure we have the same definition of that? It's good.
But in that just brings it down because most times the way they're defining it, the way I'm defining it, probably different. And it brings it down where I'm not here to fight. I think you're natural, like what's going on with your body. My heart starts racing.
I got like sweat coming down my forehead. Kind of like right now. Standing operating. It's not true.
At the end, my job isn't to fix everything. And that's the hardest part. The people that are good for not problem to solve, they're people to love. That's what Jesus did with us.
So let's treat it the same way that Jesus did with us. It is. And this is, we have to do this, right? It's our joy to do this.
It's our task to do it. It's truth and grace. I find that often when you're navigating a difficult conversation, a lot of it is dictated on maybe your personality mindset and the relationship you might. Man, I don't know how the answer to this.
Everything's going to be fine. Let's just all love one another. Okay, that's part of it. But part of your job as a leader as well is to yes, and this is the fourth point.
It's point to the unity of the gospel, right? So there is truth in the gospel. Yes. You don't have to have the answers for everything.
But man, look at the resources that have been supplied, walk people through the message. I mean, we're getting to this week five on gender and dysphoria and the categories that Erica is walking us through and helping us to define those terms. You don't have to have the answer with that. But man, spend your time listening to the message, point back to what was said through the message.
And then ultimately, we can point to an answer because of the truth of what the gospel is that we find unity around what scripture says. And so as a leader, you don't have to have all the answers. No, you don't all day long. But the answers that you do that you will supply, they come from the gospel and the scriptures and what is being taught through during the sermon for sure.
What else to say on those guys? Well, I mean, you know, like I'm kind of known for my pithy little phrases, right, like processes, content, right? So I try to hold like two phrases in intention when it comes to the anxiety of being a leader and trying to find common ground is one is kind of embrace the awkward of not letting our own anxiety kind of lead to avoidance of a real pain point that someone was trying to express or trying to gloss over like you're saying, right, like the truth of a scripture. And so we don't want that so that that though is held in intention with like, I'm not bad, right?
Like God has not asked me to be omniscient. I'm like, I can't, I can't, I am not the one responsible for changing anyone he is, right? And but he has asked me to be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow, slow become angry. And so, so with that, I think it's okay to pause and take a break and to combat to the discussion if it gets heated, right?
It's okay to end life group thoughtfully, you know, without feeling kind of this pressure to tie it up in a meat bow. And you know, and I try, you know, like I was saying, it's almost like a holy pause, right? Like we're allowing God to like speak between us and through us. And it's especially, you know, it's especially, oh, okay, I think definitely, you know, expressive of the gospel to take the process of rupture and repurpose.
So if you may have said something that was a little harsh or a little, you know, cutting, right, that you want to just go ahead and ask for, for just forgiveness, right? And, and that, you know, how you say something is important. Right, right. Yeah.
And I think that when it comes to kind of sharing, when it comes to sort of like putting the truth across the table, but those I statements can be really, really helpful. Because you can't force a belief on someone and, and you know, as we all know, like we're not the ones that are the change, change agents, right? So you can say something like this is how I came to internalize this description, right? So even when you stayed in, when you stayed in invitation as somebody else, when you state your sincere desire for what they will step into next or with a belief that they will step into next, you can kind of state that as a hope for, for them, instead of a statement of like, you've really got a problem here and you need to kind of shape up or ship, ship about, right?
You can say like, my hope is that you come to a placement, right? So that, so it's more of a relational posture, more of a humble posture. And it's important to just, you know, going back to finding sort of aligning with our goals, it's, it's good to just come out and state, hey, like, you know, I think it's great that we all feel strongly about this. I think it's all great that we care about the safety and the well-being of those that we love.
You know, I feel like we all want this life group to be like a real place for real people with a real guy, right? That we can love with each other. So that's, those are all great goals that we need it, right? Right.
And it's kind of made those wins. That's right. That's right. Yeah.
That's right. That's so good. Thank you, Alan. Thank you, Dallas.
Man, leaders, this is great. This is great. This is good stuff, right? These four categories of listening well, find the common ground, manage and the aware of your own leadership anxiety and then point to the unity and the truth of the gospel.
This isn't just a now thing for all the table. This is, this is what it means to be a leader a weekend and week out. We've all been there. We have all been in groups with all the groups and we know that many times you have some great robust conversations and every once in a while, you have those conversations like, man, how do I navigate this?
So you know what, these are some helpful handles for you. You don't have to rescue it. You don't have to solve everything that's in there. Point to the gospel, point to the truth of scriptures, but all things with truth and grace.
And we're in it with you guys. And as Juan said, we've got so many resources to help walk you through the remaining weeks of this of the series. Anything else, Dallas, for us, you want to drive home for our leaders or for we sign off? What I heard is value perspectives over details.
Let's not attack no accusations. Let's see people in the image of God. Maybe you need to pray that prayer. Lord help me see my group.
They're made in your image. How can you point people to their images in Jesus and not in whatever the issue is? Right. That's what we get to do for our people each and every day and imagine the kingdom impact everywhere they go.
All day long. That's discipleship, man. Discipleship is that onward journey step by step forward together. I think about the disciples from various different perspectives and cultural economic backgrounds and this melting pot of who they were and this is who Jesus chose to build through the kingdom through, which is amazing.
So it's the same for us. You're in that group for a reason. You're leading your group for a reason. All right, leaders.
Well, thank you so much for your time. I'm looking forward to hearing as always what God is doing in and through your group. And you can expect our normal podcast to come out on Friday as we look at week five of On the Table sermon series. Have a great week.