Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Welcome, leaders to week one of On the Table. We are really excited to kick off this series with you.
As it's been for now the third year running, this has kind of become the liturgy for us here at Mariners Church where we have this sermon series each year for the past now, three years, a new set of questions every year. And man, so excited to jump into this topic today. What happened to masculinity and who better to ask than the most masculine person that I know that our men's pastor, our men's pastor here, Mr. Tim Luke.
I was up to him. Hey guys, happy to be here. I don't know about the most masculine guy that you could have had on, but I understand that there was no one else to be on today. So happy to be here.
Well, I guess it depends on how you define that. Maybe we're going to get into that a little bit in our discussion today. But man, I haven't heard the message obviously already. And yeah, just I'm so glad that we're tackling this topic in a way that is culturally relevant, but obviously it's typically, typically grounded.
And I'm just curious for you, Tim, just even as we before we even jump into looking at some of the questions together, why do you think this is an important topic for us to be looking at? Yeah, I mean, I'm thrilled that this question was the first question on the table for the series because I think it's incredibly important. Like Eric said, there is a war on masculinity in our culture today. I think there was peaks of it.
And I think we're maybe on a little bit on the downward as it, I feel like it peaked a couple of years ago as far as just like how harmful it got for a moment. And I feel like because of some of the harm that we've seen towards men and just kind of masculinity, so to speak, that we're learning in real time that some of the extreme parts of that does no doubt. I think there was a problem. There was toxic masculinity.
And so I think it's just helping us have really clear language and understanding of what that looks like one more than anything. What does it mean to be a biblical man? What does it mean to be a healthy man? So I'm super glad I'm super grateful that Eric chose this topic and really impacted in a beautiful way.
You asked the question why men are leading the charge in suicide. And it's a horrible, some of the horrible statistics out there are insane. I mean, men are the leading cause of all crime, pretty much all crime, all, you know, mental health stuff. I think there was over 32,000 suicides in 2020 and those continue to be harmful side effects of mental health and some of which are related to this very topic on masculinity.
So it's super poignant, especially with a younger generation with this peaking kind of in their adolescence. I think younger guys are asking the question, what can I say? Who can I be? How do I act?
And I think it's important to give this framework. And of course, if you have a front review to that with the guys that you have helped us show up at our church, you get to hear some incredible stories of transformation, but you also get to hear some really sad stories of breakdown and a lot of those sad stories of breakdown turn into incredible stories of transformation. And so I'm grateful for the robustness that we have here with men's ministry and all the things that you're helping lead out. And of course, you got a men's breakfast coming up just around the corner as well to tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, we're basically continuing the conversation. We get to go a little bit deeper and spend another 30, 40 minutes talking about what does it look like to be a man, a God, a biblical man, have healthy masculinity. And we're really excited because our tribute cocaine and discipleship pastor, Kenny Laku, has been a part of men's ministries for 30, 40 decades, I think, having these kind of conversations and discipling countless men through these kind of conversations. So it's going to be an incredible morning as always, but to really be able to go further on this idea on understanding who God's called us to be as men and to really have some clear takeaways and to step out into biblical community and unpack in our groups and to be able to serve one another.
That's great. Awesome. So, I think why don't we jump into it? So again, this is to help you get the most out of it as you're into discussion with your life group, whether you're doing it right, lock and step with us during onto table right now, or whether you're going back, you could be listening to this way in the future, you're going back using this as a resource to have a discussion with your group now.
We're going to jump into this. And yeah, this is for every life group as this message was for every person here at our church. This isn't just a message just for men, just a discussion just for men's groups. This is a bookable for us all.
And I love Tim, you were talking about like the whole tone of the message to yes, there was some visceral attack against masculinity from the culture that was not always awful. But it was warranted, right? But this message wasn't about, hey, culture, stop beating up on men. This message was much more about men.
How do we step into biblical manhood that we do lead away, that we do set the pace in our families and our workplace and all of our relationships with strength and humility? That's the story we want to tell, not that story of we're under attack. What we do about, no, but the story is how do we follow up, forgotten point and as we're leaving ourselves and others. So really, really good stuff.
All right, dude, let's jump into our lean in here. The lean in this week is what are some of the most common or maybe even humorous, mainly stereotypes you see thrown around pop culture. And do you think any of the stereotypes are accurate or inaccurate? Eric talked a little bit about this in his message about him, then sort of being characterized as this kind of lost character in culture.
What are some other things that come up to you when you hear about stereotypes used against men? And then warranted, what do you see? Yeah, I mean, in his message, he threw up an image of all sorts of Hollywood characters, Joey Chandler from Friends, Homer Simpson, and Tim the Tomb of the Tomb of the other, there's all sorts of different characters. I think one of the things I thought was interesting that he said, I think Disney every three minutes in their shows or movies is kind of degrading a man into some sort of kind of a dumb character.
And some of those, you know, stereotype things, I think, of course, some of that can be true. There's an unhealthy man. There's unhealthy people, right? There's unhealthy women, there's unhealthy men, there's people that behave poorly.
And so some of the stereotypes of maybe some of these things are a guy who's aggressive, angry, controlling, not honoring to women's arrogant, prideful, all those things are some of the stereotypes, but at the same time, can those things be true? Of course they can, absolutely. But is it every man? No.
Right. Yeah, but yeah, by and large, right? We have seen that tone of culture to look at, you know, like a comical figure, the dad in the home of the comical figure. And my daughter who's, you know, nearing 16, she loved to call out to Bluey.
Her kids were a little bit younger than me. I don't think her dad or appreciated that. Oh, yeah. We love Bluey and Bluey, the dad is one.
Bandit, yeah. I mean, I literally, like Bandit has literally caught up in my house like, well, dad, Bandit plays kippy-uppy all the time. And so I got to get off the couch and push a balloon up in the air for as long as, you know, because I can't have Bandit one up in me as a dad. So great example, funny that it's like, yeah, it's a dog.
That's a big role model that we get for a great man or a great father from Disney. Right. Yeah. So have some fun with that conversation.
Talk about some of the stereotypes that you see. Do you think they're true? Do you think they're not true? What are the ones that maybe you could see in yourself or the ones that you would relegate?
You know, I've had that conversation. Keep it humorous and light here with Alina. We're going to move into the look down passage. And our anchor passage is first Kings to one to three.
And the question attached to that is what is the charge that David calls his son Solomon to and why do you think it is necessary? So what is the charge that David calls his son soon to be King Solomon to and why do you think it is necessary? And it says second Kings to one to three. Is that the right passage?
Yeah. It says this. As the time approach for David to die, he ordered his son Solomon. As for me, I am going away of all the earth.
Be strong and be a man and keep your obligation to the Lord your God to walk in his ways and to keep his statues, commands and ordinances and decrees. This is written in the law of Moses said that you will have success in everything you do and wherever you turn. All right. So what do we see about David's instructions to his son?
Solve what do we learn there? Yeah. I think it's incredible. It was them with a father sharing, you know, what is what is the most important thing that you can do as a man?
And that's walking in God's ways, keeping a straight and narrow path abiding in Christ honoring and glorifying God and all that you do. And I think it's just a charge for Solomon to hear that from him then. And I think it's right on. I think it's beautiful.
Yeah. And it's coming from somebody who's not a perfect father, but you need to extend the term who's had ups and downs and got things wrong for sure. But it's reflecting back and looking back at his life and just giving this charge to his son. Like this is really important.
This is where you need to step into and again, not saying that it's always easy or the easiest thing to do. But he's reflecting back on his life and saying, man, this is what it's going to take. You need to be strong on what a strength look like. Strength looks like keeping your obligations to the Lord to walk with him to keep his commandments.
Strength is that, hey, build up your military masses accumulation of wealth, pleasure seeking. It's like, no, the first priority thing should be your obligation to the Lord. Everything falls in from that space. Like to be strong.
That's what it means to be strong. What you could say, you know, to be strong is submission. To be strong is to submit yourself, to recognize that you aren't strong enough to bear the weight of everything that's coming, that's coming your way. So it's this great advice and it's relevant in every context and throughout, throughout time, throughout the person.
So it's really good. All right. So you interact with that. Then we'll look at a look out and says a couple questions here to interact with.
So our beginning question about masculine stereotypes, what does broader culture most often get wrong about men and masculinity today? I know the question could be, what are some cultural trends around men and masculinity that may be accurate and healthy if you can think of any and why. So this is just getting you to think about culture at large now. Okay, great.
If you were to summarize it to questions, you could say, what is generally culture's perceptions of masculinity? Where do you think goes wrong? Where do you think goes right? Where do you think goes right conflict?
And you could take that question loads of different ways. But how do you think spokes might answer that question or how might you leave that in a group? Yeah, I think it might just be helpful for the group leaders since we've already asked what are some of the stereotypes or negative attributes of an unhealthy man. By the way, I hate the word or phrase toxic masculinity.
I just think it's just I'd rather say harmful masculinity or unhealthy masculinity. So we've already kind of talked about some of those negative attributes and we certainly believe those to be true. And I think the pendulum swung really hard and maybe too hard, which caused some problems. But maybe the question is like, what are, who are some examples of guys or men in your life who have represented healthy masculinity, biblical masculinity, one of those attributes?
What does that look like? Oh, you know, a guy who took responsibility, a man who was an incredible protector that was brave, that was really wise and kind and generous, encouraged, self-control and managed his home as incredible father and nurturing, chivalry, all those things. So talking through those, but I think maybe helpful to who's a specific person that is in your life that's been really influential in your life that has represented healthy masculinity might be an easier way to pull that out. That's good.
I like that. I think that's a better question. You should go back and rewrite this one. I think somebody who's modeled, you know, what it means to be healthy, the biblical man in your life.
What did you learn from that person? What did that look like? What did that inspire you? I think that's great.
I've got to garner maybe some different kind of conversation and then we get to the look in. There's a few different questions here. But again, the theme of these questions is really it's a challenge for the men in the group to say, hey, where do you feel God is calling you to step in further into biblical manhood? You know, Eric uses those two kinds of buckets of a man is not a beast, a man is not a boy.
Like, where have you seen that growth and development in you? Where is that playing a part in your story? And then I think for others, like, how can you encourage them in your life to step into that? Or what are the effects that you've noticed when men around you step into that?
What effect has that had in you and your relationship and your family? How could you encourage them and don't create environments for them to grow more in biblical manhood? I think those are the kind of ways that you can lead into that into that question. And of course, then for you, you'll say, hey, one of the ways to step in is community, right?
You see that time and time again, the lone ranger thing is never really a good thing. So important to get connected. Then of course, we got reader groups starting to real estate at all congregations. Like, I think it's been sometimes we feel the pull to isolation because we think isolation is strength and it takes vulnerability to be in community with others.
And, you know, I don't have the stats in front of me, but the stats of how many deep friendships do men actually have? Probably pretty low. Like, we've got work relationships, we've got surface level relationships, but how many men in our lives deeply know less that we can encourage and be challenged by others. And it's so important.
I mean, you see that all the time. Now, anything else that you would encourage folks on those points? Yeah, I mean, we could go on a long tangent about men and friendships. And there's a bunch of research and studies that came out out of COVID because that kind of, you know, put the magnifying glass on it.
But there was even a term that got brought out the friendship recession for men in a lot of kind of the why and some of the symptoms of not having community and friendships with mental health and different ways that men behave poorly were as a result of not being in community and having true friends. And so I think it was zero to one is kind of the data. The average man has zero to one friend. And I think I've seen that to be true.
And that's why I think when guys get into groups like rooted in life groups and they all of a sudden have this place for them to be honest and real with their pains and their struggles and their victories even and having that support, it's so transformative because they were longing so bad to be known, seen and to be a part of something bigger than themselves. So it just makes this kind of conversation that much more important for men and for anyone, really couples or women in groups that imperative. So men, we need friendships and sometimes we get too caught up in building our careers or life, whether that's, you know, our families and priorities, but we truly do need to be in community and have a place to bear authentically what's going on so that we can walk with each other. That's good, man.
Awesome. And again, we've got those environments for you here. Miss breakfast, January 16th, we read a group center starting. So many other men's groups and activities that are always ongoing.
So let's get connected here in 2025. Awesome. Thanks for joining us this week, man. Appreciate it.
Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be a great series already. It's a great series week too. Our whole world religion is the same.
Really big question. It's going to be an eye to leave in that weekend. So join us in praying and believing guys going to do great things and through our gatherings and through your groups. All right, thanks for joining us guys.
We'll catch you on here next week.