Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Hello, Life Group leaders, and welcome to week three on our Life Group Leader podcast, looking at the series on the table. This week we are in a discussion following this weekend message on does Christianity oppressed women, minorities, and others?
So how about that for questions? Every week these questions, we're just going for it. We're leaving nothing off the table, we're putting the discussion in front of you. And I am glad that I'm not navigating this alone as usual, but I've got another great friend, pastor on the team here.
Ladies and gentlemen, our women's pastor, Esther Jones. Hello everyone, so good to be with you guys. Yeah, glad to have you with us. Esther, just give us a little bit of snapshot, women's ministry, you do so much.
We're discipling the women of our church, and you do have such excellence in care. Just talk to us a bit about what you're excited about. What's going to doin'? Yeah, man, I've been in my role for about eight months now, and it's just been incredible seeing how many women are hungry for God's word, hungry for community.
And I just feel like women are just really pressing in to all that guy's offering through our church. This past women's event, we had over 3000 women come. And I think that they're just wanting to encounter the Lord. So it's just been so amazing to be able to create those kind of environments.
Yeah, amazing. Obviously this to you, Esther, I believe that God brings people here not just because of the role, but because of who you are as a person, and it's just been such a joy to watch you just really flourish and grow, and the influence you have here on our team is just amazing. So while you're ready to get into this week's discussion, it's going to be great. Let's do it.
The first two weeks, we kind of look at the question of, is Christianity true? We've looked at that from, can I trust the Bible? What about the truth, the truth of Jesus claims? Are these backed up?
This week we take a little bit of a term, and we look at not so much as Christianity true, but is it good? Is it helpful? Is it helpful? And that's going to be really the tone that's going to drive us through probably the remainder of this series.
But I want to just for you, when you look at that question about not just the intellectual truths of the claims of Christianity, but the good that it can bring. I mean, we're having this discussion because there are arguments out there that would say that Christianity isn't good, that it's moved from the center of society to the fringe of society that it's gone from being respected to disrespected. What do you think about it? Do you think generally that rings true from what you've seen?
Yeah, no, I think that there's a difference between abuse of Christianity and actual Christianity, as Eric mentioned. And I think that sometimes God's word is true, God's word is true and is good. And he gave us his word and his presence for the good of humanity. But I don't think that the stewards of his word have always done justice to the beauty of who he is.
And so at times we as a community and the family of God have not done the best job in reflecting our God. Yeah, that's right. And it's OK for us to own what we can and should own. Forgive us as a practice that we can tell we want to walk in at the same time, pointing to the beauty, the truth, the reality of who Jesus is, the man, the untarnished, just wonder at the message of what the gospel is, is absolutely timeless.
And have we always got that right? No, we need to acknowledge that. And at the same time, we need to also acknowledge that cultural view of Christianity is also not always right. And I think that I love what's happening in the series as we're bringing both of those things to the misaligned views and that even owning some of the ways where those views come from is then pointing again to the truth of the gospel.
So we're going to get to that in our conversation here today. The lean in, as we often say, a lean in question is designed to help you lean in. It should be a question that is answerable for your group. And so we want to get your group thinking early.
One of the great statements that Eric made during this message is kind of the difference between tolerance and love. And so we're going to lead you through that. And we start with this leading question. And after here it is for you.
What's a food you used to just tolerate but now love? If you can't think of a food, what about something else? Music, TV show, something that you move from tolerance to love? For sure.
I mean, I hope you're not going to say it's your spouse David. Oh, for sure. No, I used to not be a crazy fan of Mediterranean food, but now I'm all about it. Like, so good.
Love, Penini Girl. I don't know if you've tried Penini Girl. Love, absolutely love it. Yeah.
I did not love documentaries, but I love that too. So I don't know if it's getting older or what the thing is, but I like the healthy stuff and the rich information and all the things. That's great. So that's a great exciting night for you guys in your household, Penini Girl and a documentary.
Maybe not the documentary by myself, but Penini Girl. That's a great, that's a family treat when we have extended family over. How about you? Well, I put in this question a pet because that's what I thought of.
That might be true for almost all of our pets. And we have three of them. One of them my wife purchased a wild star I was napping. Oh, wow.
This little dog came home. And I guess we got a dog now. I really want one. But here we go.
We already have one dog and a cat. And now we got another one. But this little dog has become my buddy, like all the other ones and snuggles up and everything else. So from tolerance to love, you might say.
All right. Then the look down. We're going to look at this great passage in Galatians 3, 27, to 29. I'll just read it for us.
For those of you who are baptized into Christ, have been clothed with Christ. And there is now no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female, since you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. So I have a couple of questions for you to kick around.
Remember leaders look down as we want to look at the passage. It's not so much inviting stories from the outside, but what do you see through God's word? So a couple of questions here. What do you learn about what it means to be clothed with Christ?
And then another question, what does giving our lives to Jesus and following Him do to our identity? So Esther, what stands out to you? Yeah, I think the identity that Christ gives us transcends all other categories and identities that we have given to us. And some identities are beautiful.
Our ethnic background to our gender. Those are all beautiful things. But I love that being a child of God and being a Christ ambassador, all the identities that I am in Jesus supersedes all the other ones that people can give me or that I can give myself. And what I love about this is that I don't need to acquire my own worth or make my own identity.
It's given to me as a gift in Jesus and given to me by being clothed with Christ. And so I'm so grateful that I'll have to work for those things. Right. I love that language you do superseeds, right?
It's not cancels out. It's not that you're ethnic background, who you are, where it doesn't matter. It's not significant anymore, but it's not the most important thing about who you are. It informs every part of who you are.
But we get our identity, our directions from who we are in Christ, over clothed in Christ. And this is an amazing passage when you consider the time of which it's being written. And you pause very purposely putting these people in these categories right against each other, because they were, in a lot of ways, so opposed to one another. I mean, we think we live in a polarizing time.
I mean, the time of this being written would also have been equally, if not more polarizing. And so the gospel comes at this time, where it's a great unifier for the margins of society, for those that think they're powerful, for those that think they're powerless, and actually, under Christ, we're all for the same. We're all sons and daughters. So it's a beautiful passage to look at.
So then we want to look out. A couple of questions here to navigate. One is, where have you seen the Christian worldview of the image of God bring freedom against oppression? So that might seem like a little bit of a right term, but that was a substantial part in Eric's message talking about the image of God and how that worldview, a uniquely Christian worldview, that every single person is of inherited and eternal value, informs how we see ourselves, how we see the world around us.
And so while yes, you can say a lot of harm has been done, falsely in the name of Jesus, you'd be heart-pressed to find a lot of real good and social change that has been done absent from that worldview. Anything stick out to you where you've seen that? Yeah, I mean, if you think about the major universities around the world, like the belief of so many believers and educating people to the names of hospitals, like Ivy Birth to my son, Stank Joseph, you know, like their biblical worldview and their view of care for people, the sick, the poor. And so yeah, I think that the convictions to start those institutes really came from a deep desire to see all people, and particularly of people in need with no and crazy ability or contribution to society, but they're still of worth.
So I think that that's so beautiful. Yeah, and that's been the long heritage of what it means to be a follower of Jesus, right? For the Roman Empire where they would disregard any day of foreign nationality or even little girls, the Christians were the ones outside of the city gates that were picking them up and adopting them and bringing them into the family of God, which is a beautiful thing. You think about the anti-slavery movement, I mean, so many movements come from this mindset that every person is of eternal value.
Yeah, I mean, we just celebrated MLK. That's right. You know, and remember where that do. Yeah, yeah.
And so we acknowledge those things and Eric lists a lot more in the message. So make sure you go back and note that. But then the question that follows us, we've kind of hit on this a little bit. So if we know some of those things, we've talked about this a bit, do you think that Christianity's reputation and culture is aligned with some of those things that we've talked about?
If not, why did you seem to be a disconnect or were you maybe using that before? Yeah, I mean, I remember, I think, week one on the table series, Eric, or was it Christmas? I remember it was one of his messages. But he talked strongly about John chapter one verse 14 where he talks about how Jesus came full of grace and truth.
And I think sometimes we'll kind of lean towards being graceful and then we'll lean towards being truthful. And I don't think that those two words were meant to be separated. He was full of both. And I guess as believers, as even like flawed human beings, we have our own kind of inclinations towards or event towards one or the other, kind of have expressed the gospel particular way.
And I think that that may have created a particular reputation and culture. Right. I wonder if I could ask you, Esther, I mean, you're one of our amazing women pastors on the team. We love everything that you bring, the fullness of who you are, unbelievable.
You're also somebody of color, right? So I mean, we talk about the Christianity of women and minorities and the other. I mean, you could jokingly say, well, I'm in two of those. Yeah, no for sure.
Just talk about you and your own personhood. Like, we're using the good and maybe some of the danger around this conversation in your own experience. Yeah, I mean, the good is, I mean, Eric's message. He actually talks about, this was actually really redemptive for me.
He actually talks about the majority of believers are women of color. And as an Asian American woman, I'm like, whoa, I'm a part of, I'm actually like maybe an America, I'm a minority. But in the kingdom of God, I've got like other sisters in Christ that we get to serve the kingdom sacrificially and with our gifts. And so that was really that truth and that statistic was so redemptive for me.
And so, and then also like, when I come to Christ, I didn't feel like I had to strip away my Koreanness or my Americanness or my womanness, you know, I feel like God enhances those things actually for his glory that I could tell a unique story of my own encounters with the Lord. Kind of like this American woman in John Chapter 4 had a particular type of encounter with Jesus at the well. I feel like I'm able to explain the story of God through my testimony in a unique way. So it's been really awesome, but at the same time, sometimes like I feel too American when I'm with my family and then when I'm with other Americans, I feel more Korean.
And when I'm a little confused about like, what do I think culturally? I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm a daughter of God. And that is so, it's just secures who I am. So it's been like, I love, I've been able to actually embrace my Asian Americanness both as being a woman all the more by like having Jesus as my word is a barrier.
Right, come on, it's good. Thank you for asking. So good, preach it. Come on, love it.
Just a couple more questions when we get to the look in. This question, we've hit a little bit already. Why are Christians uniquely equipped to address the issue of intolerance between ethnic groups, social classes and the like? I mean, Eric talks, he leads us through that.
Really, that's that point of the image barrier. And when we realized that in so many ways, no matter what our status or ethnic makeup, our experiences, whatever, whatever it is, we were all on the outside looking at. We were all the other. God was the first missionary by sending his son Jesus to us because we were in desperate need of saving.
We couldn't do it ourselves. That he came, that he came to us. Good to Christ. So we're in a unique way because that's how we've been served.
Wow, I guess in a sense, we've been oppressed by sin. All day long. All day long. That we were all on the outside of our own choosing of our own violations.
Romans calls us enemies of God. So even that category of how are we equipped to look at others, we got to realize that, man, we were broken. The poverty starts here within us, that we are in need of rest and we can save. But that it doesn't stop there, right?
That the salvation that we receive is our motivation, our fuel, our grace to go and be that for others. Yes. Right? Not in a we bring redemption away, not in that.
We've been blessed to be a blessing. It's that. You never graduate from that understanding. So good.
So I think there's a good conversation to have along there. That's great. And then this last question, just leaning again for the lean-ins, although we announced the look-in. Where's God calling you to move from tolerance to love of others?
Esther, now we're talking before. How specific do you get here? The answer to the question. I think the posture behind that is, you know, those that you might think are on the other side of the aisle from you.
Those that you might think are so different than you, that maybe not by your intentional choosing you just don't associate with. But what would it look like for you to go to the other in love and justice and in mercy? How else would you? Yeah.
I mean, Eric breaks down his message with the economic status and then gender and then there was one more. But even if you guys wanted to use that as the standard for even like the ethnic background went like depending on, you know, do this in wisdom, but like, hey, what are some stereotypes you believe that are hindering you from loving other people? That's something that I constantly have to wrestle with. Or even your own stereotypes that you've been believing that are not given to you by Jesus.
Or even like if you're in the category of being rich, like how do you view people that are poor? Or if you're poor, do you think that people that are rich are arrogant when you've forgotten like there are some incredibly generous, giving, amazing stewards? So I think that those three categories that Eric addresses can be a great space for us to think about, hey, where have we been annoyed by these group of people? Or where have we declared things over these people that are actually more demonic than truthful and empowering and life-giving to who God made them to be?
And it's really easy to do that to have assumptions when you're not close with the other. Yeah. And then you read stereotypes and assumptions. And love is proximate.
Love gets close. Love enters in. Because again, it points back to the Gospel, right? Jesus entered in, took on our flesh.
It's impossible to not love someone without being proximate. So it's great. But then this is a challenging one. And leaders want to encourage you to don't go away from the challenge.
Acknowledge your own errors in places where you get this wrong. Don't just make this a conversation about out there and culture. Make it a present conversation with those in your group. That's right.
Awesome. Well, Esther, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it. Yeah, it's so good.
Next week we have Ed Stetser, who's here with us as a resident in Scholar. He's going to be walking us through the next week podcast. We'll get a question of suffering. So make sure you stay tuned for that.
And we'll see you next week.