Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This week the conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms and changes the world together. Welcome Life Group leaders to week four of On the Table. We are looking at the discussion this week on faith versus science.
Can it only be one? My name is John here with you and you're just going to get me here again but glad to host this conversation as we dive into this really important discussion with our life groups. This weekend at Mariners Irvine we had Ed Stetzer did our teaching and then all of our other congregations we had live teachers to handle a really thoughtful and important topic of discussion. This came up for me in leading a reader group right now and we're on week two of rooted looking at the story of who is God and looking at creation and you may remember back into your rooted experience or just in the discourse of conversations with those that you're in relationship with.
This conversation about faith and science and even how the title of this message, Faith versus Science, Faith versus Science, that there has been for far too long this unfortunate kind of polarizing putting one versus the other. It has to be all one or it has to be all the other. Of course what we're going to discover through the message this weekend and through our conversation is actually the two are not opposed but the two are very much complimentary. We have a conversation in the rooted group this weekend and how for many it has been a kindred.
It's looking at how these two complement each other and for far too long that's been the case and we had a really healthy discussion around Genesis one through three and looking at the creation and the creation narrative that's there and we believe God's word is inerrant and what it says it means and at the same time we look at the creation narrative in Genesis. There are so many ways that or just a few different ways that very thoughtful Orthodox Christians read and interpret Genesis. The way that we order the days, the periods of time. Those are fun things to have conversations about that of course pointing to the central truth that God the uncreated one is the power, the sustainer behind all things in creation and that's important because when we look at any area of science that all of it finds its origin in the root and the power of who God is and so any scientific conversation, any scientific discovery is not detached from faith but is very much a part of faith.
So we're going to have that conversation this week in our lifers. We're going to lead us through the discussion questions now. This first question is lean in. It says if you were a scientist, what would you want to study and research?
You can probably tell a lot about a person, what they come up with in these answers and you know I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about that myself but the first thing I did pop into mind was I don't even know if this is a science but the communication of and with animals. I've got two dogs and I would love to know exactly what they're thinking at certain times. Maybe I would want to know actually because that might be more terrifying than I'm imagining but yeah I think something about how we keep the animals head with five and interesting. Alright so I had that conversation around your groups and then we get into the look down.
Lots of different passages that were taught through this weekend but the anchor passage that we have for us in our discussion is Isaiah 4026 Isaiah 46 and then Romans 120. Romans 120. Then a couple of questions you want to highlight before you read the passage is what we learned about creation from the passage? What attributes of God are made clear in his creation?
So a couple of questions what you learned about creation and what you learned about God through creation in these two passages. So the first one is the 4026 it says this look up and see who created these things he brings out the stars by number he calls all of them by name because of his great power and strength not one of them is missing. So there's a lot within that passage we're told to look up and see and as we look up in the sea that it should generate this response to us like who is behind us who created this like we should be struck in awe in wonder the majesty of creation which pulls us towards the majesty of who got it. So look up see and then ponder who created this and then it gives us the answer it's he has got all powerful creative sustaining one.
He brings out the stars by number meaning he knows every single one he calls them by name he does that because he's strong he's powerful not one is missing they're their exact space where they're supposed to be so he's a god of intention he's a god of power he's a god of incredulously knowing every single part of it that that's who he is and then in Romans 120 for his invisible attributes that is his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen since the creation of the world being understood through what was made as a result people are without excuse. So creation points to God creation points to the sovereignty of God is power his wisdom it's a signpost of who he is in creation the invisible attributes of who God is are made visible through through creation and I just look at it surely you've had that experience I mean we live in one of those beautiful places in the world in Southern California I mean you could be on the beach in the morning and skiing skiing in the afternoon and we look at the wonder of creation and it should generate this not just appreciation for where we live but it's revealing something of God's goodness and and his wonder so what we learned about creation well it's it points to God it points to who he is and what attributes of God can we see his creativity his his attentionality his power and how creation is there to point directly to him so we don't worship creation itself creation is a window it's a sign point post pointing to something greater which is that which is the creator so we see all these things through God's creation. Moving down to the lookout section where have you seen people use science to reject faith or faith to reject science how might it be counterproductive to our witness or the church to embrace in anti-scientific label how a science been used or how might it be used for the good of our community and for the glory of God so many different things that you can reference there in your discussion with your groups but I mean camping on that second question how might it be counterproductive to our witness for the church to embrace anti anti-science label extremely counter productive that while we take things on on faith that faith is obviously immensely important faith is not opposed to reason if it is not opposed to scientific discovery and as many have found that the deeper that you go into science the more that it points towards a sovereign designer behind what we are discovering so we shouldn't be anti-science we should be anti-intellectual that we should be thoughtful about these about these conversations that we should dive in study and be on the front lines of scientific discovery as the church so often has has been and seeing very much how it is in line with the story of God who he is his nature is character and you know in science in so many ways it can tell us some of the how behind just the way that the nature of the way the world works tell us about how is it but of course science doesn't give us the why behind it and so we should be concerned with both we want to know some of the how behind the world and how things work but also pointing towards God the one who is the creator who is the only one that can give us the why there is kind of a cheesy illustration as I said before if I were to bake a cake for somebody in my life group and give it to the person in my life group the other people in my life group could take the cake they could dissect it they could figure out what ingredients I used and how the cake come to get came together but only I could tell the person who I'm giving the cake why I gave them the cake whether that's their birthday and anniversary as the designer I don't know what they can tell you the why the purpose behind it so there's there's some truth truth in that that science can tell us to how but doesn't always tell us tell us the why and we should be on the forefront of discovery not anti-science not anti-intellectual that the two are competing but they're complementary absolutely then moving down to the look in how do you interact with faith and science in your own life what aspects of creation bring out in you a capacity for wonder on creation in what wisdom do you need from God to wrestle with the complexity of the science theology in faith and for some it might be well this isn't really an area that I've put a whole lot of thought I thought into for others it might be man this has been a real in-depth journey for me to understanding my faith in a more in a more robust way whatever the approach has been the approach should be that we don't see it as competing but complimenting and even making our faith even that much more like a live and vibrant and real and it should motivate the way that we pull towards understanding and scientific discovery and the way that we care for care for creation you know this world that we live in is not an afterthought of God's design like this is this is this is our home and it's the home that's going to be renewed and restored in how we care for God's creation how we steward it how we study it is a matter of worship it's a matter of stewardship it's a matter of worship so we we should care we should care greatly about these conversations and not be intimidated not be on the on the back foot from it but really lean in into the conversation and so loads of things that you can lead your group or discussion this week have a rich one lean in lean into it and they just want to remind you of a couple of resources that we have during on the table there is great and the servant service series first it's kind of tied in into this conversation and even more so to the message last week we have from Eric on technology on on a February 4th that is coming up that is that is a Sunday is it not I'm sure that it is I got to pull up my calendar yep it is a Sunday on Sunday February 4th Eric is hosting a leaders in tech workshop you don't want to miss that he's going to have a friend of his who is really the architect behind the u version app which has been downloaded millions of millions of times and the word of God has been distributed through the use of that to that technology and so he's got a conversation within there about how do we use technology to further the kingdom story which are possibly with technology which really ties in into this conversation around science science as well and then in our message in a couple of weeks time we're going to be looking at deconstruction and what do we do with our doubts and how do we wrestle with the questions that we have and then following that on February 11th I'm hosting a workshop Sunday February 11th with a few other leaders in our congregation some folks on our staff team and other local professors it's a seminar called Dally my doubts what we're going to have a discussion about what we do with our doubts how do we wrestle with them well what should our posture be in community what should our approach be in our faith and so I want to invite you to the Sunday February 11th don't worry that is Super Bowl Sunday we know these things and I care really about that because my team is in the 504 this weekend I won't reveal who but they could be very well playing on February 11th and so we will be done in time for you and for me to make Super Bowl parties that's going to be from 1245 to about 2 till 2 30 and you'll be on the time to do that so we want to mark those dates and encounter leaders in tech Sunday February 4th and then doubting my doubts Sunday February 11th following the 11 30 service 1245 to about 2 30 we'd love to see you there alright guys we'll go for it this week have a great discussion in your groups and we will see you on the weekend