Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This week the conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practice the spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Welcome leaders to this week's edition of the Life Group Leader podcast. We're delighted that you're tuning in with us this week.
This is going to be a special week. We've got a great guest, a friend of Mariners. Many of you will know the name Ed Stetzer. I'm an honor to have you sitting with us today to walk through this podcast.
Great to be here. Just to give you an overview for those of you that are unfamiliar, Ed is the professor at the Dean of the Wheaton College where he also serves as the executive director of the Wheaton College, Billy Graham Center. Ed is written countless of books. He's a practitioner.
He goes back a little bit with Eric Gaggle with your time at Life Way. So if you got four stories. Back to Christ Fellowship. He brought me on teaching class for a crescent fellowship.
I did know that. What was that? 15 plus years? I've tried to recruit him to come to Life Way.
When he was at Christ Fellowship. He said, no, no. He said, yes. So we go, I guess it's going to be 15, 20 years.
Oh, amazing. So you got the history. You got some stories. I got stories.
I'll see if they can drag you. We'll see how that goes. But obviously countless books, one of the books that our leaders might be familiar with is transformational groups. And you really get just a great overview of your books.
Eric, can I work that together? That's right. The research and we work the other way. That's amazing.
I'd love to hear the book. It brings you out to Southern California, other than the incredible weather and the amazing people. Well, when Eric had originally invited me to be the scholar in residence at Mariners Church, when he brought me out, he says, oh, it's beautiful out here. And I come out.
It's the beginning of January. People know that all the storms at Miss Vic River. So it's like four days of rain and cold. It's like tweeted.
You know, Eric, oh, come on out to Mariners Church and Weather is beautiful. And this is what I come into. But now it's it's getting back to normal by time folks who listen to this for sure. So yeah, we have people walk around being in parkas and we're sat in an office right now where the sun is out shiny.
But you can see there are some mountains with snow on them out there out the window. We have a little snow down in Southern California. It's got to drive a long way to get to it. Yes, you know what I'm talking about.
Yes. This does not seem the parkas when it's 45 degrees is amusing to me. We're in short sleeves at 45 degrees. So it is just different worlds in which you live.
Yeah, I'll say no more. But we are so honored to have you here with the team here for these several weeks. You know, you're doing a lot of things with us. One of the things I love to just highlight with our leaders right now, leaders you'll know that we have this on the table series and we've got some resources to come alongside and equip you.
One of those resources is a seminar series that is going to be doing. It's called Christianity and Culture. It's a five week series starting on the 1st of February looking at some great questions and how we engage in culture. Just be curious and we start there.
Why is that important for us as leaders, as followers, to be in tune with culture and the questions that are being asked and how we facilitate. Yeah, so one of the things I like about Mariners about Eric's leadership is you're not shying away from it. You're getting on the table to the title of the series. You're not shying away from some of the difficult issues.
I'm on sabbatical right now. Now, sabbatical in academia is not the same as a sabbatical like, you know, take four or five weeks off if you're a pastor or a job, whatever, maybe where sabbatical you do other things like I'm writing some books and I've been teaching at Oxford University for the last few months. And this is actually the title of the Christianity Western culture is the series that I was teaching at Oxford every Monday from 1 to 3. And so we've condensed some of those things because people are wrestling with issues in culture.
We're wrestling with them through our series. On the table in the Christian culture series, I'll address some of the challenging issues of the day. Sometimes they directly coincide with the Sunday message. Sometimes they don't.
They're basically trying to help Christians live faithfully and fruitfully. And both of those things matter. We want to be faithful to the good news of the gospel. One of the things I love about where Maristers is is just that biblical conviction.
So faithful to the gospel, but also fruitful as we engage culture because we can be faithful to the gospel and just sort of barricade the doors of our churches and our lives and not intersect or interact with people. But I want us to be fruitful in our engagement with others. And so of course, that's what the table series is doing. But also the Christian culture series is for that to help you, Christians be more faithful and fruitful in engaging the culture in this very tricky moment that we're living.
It's a strange time. Unlike anything, I mean, it's the world's always changing. But this is probably a time unlike anything we've seen in our lifetime, the level of cultural convulsion, the level of division, the level of anti-Christian sentiment at times or misunderstanding of what Christians believe. Really it's an important time for us to live well for the good news of the gospel.
It's a sobering time. It's a time to really hold on to our core convictions. It's not a time to go to our isolated corners. Yeah, and I think the temptation is to hold the convictions.
I'm going to be doing some things over at Bible University. Barry Corey likes to say to have a firm center and soft edges and that's firm conviction. And yet, if we were just seen as the people who constantly grow on punches rather than living the kind of winsome gospel-shaped Christian life that we're called to, I think ultimately we're missing the opportunity for gospel witness. And I'm deeply concerned that we would be showing and sharing the love of Jesus in this time.
Not just, I think we have to stand up for certain things. But at the same time, we've got to do so in a way that draws people to the good news of the gospel. Fantastic. And I know you've written countless articles of research on how we engage culture, how we hold on to the ethic of discipleship, but also how we do that, have a proster mission looking out for the other.
I mean, you're talking to life group leaders. You know, what is it? Some 575 life groups that are represented across all the different congregations. Some, like a estimate of 575.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some about that. So, some of that. You actually know the actual number.
Yeah, some about that. Okay. But when we talk about groups and discipleship, we've got to get into life group, by the way. I'm going to be here for a month.
So, we've got this thing called rooted. It starts this week. Okay. Actually, it starts tonight.
Okay. So, you've got to go through rooted to get to a life group. That's right. You've got the joy of doing rooted.
I'm still learning. So, we just did deep dive like rooted. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, just because the attention to the right word between discipleship and evangelism and mission. Sometimes our natural default is, well, I found my people. Right.
I'm going to huddle in. Right. And hold on versus actually I found my people so that I can be blessed. How would you talk to our leaders.
I think ultimately, you know, groups are, I think just groups are so essential to life in the church. We've got to move people from sitting in circles. We found, I've done multiple research projects, written multiple books on this. That the vitality of the community in the church is going to be directly connected with the vitality of the group's life in the church.
And this is really key. If you want community, you've got to have proximity. And so to see that proximity with other people, you know, I was at church on Sunday and, you know, there were hundreds and hundreds of people all around. You know, my first time being less than I was here, I preached.
My first time attending was this Sunday. So I sort of watched and it's interesting. I was watching. We got usher teams and they're just, they're killing it.
I love the usher teams. They're like, oh, there's two seats over there. I also noticed that probably half the congregation shows up after the service starts. So that's at least consistent with what we experienced in Chicago land.
Not saying that's a good thing, but you know, but even there. So I sat with, I think I nodded at a person behind me because we smiled and nodded. But I had no community with those people. So I mean, it's a bit like we all came on what service was at the 10 o'clock.
So we all the same service time that we all had show about the same time. We weren't there ready for always at 10. We sang the same songs. We listened the same message, you know, great message.
I saw people trust, geez, stand up and say, I believe it was great. But I didn't leave in any sense of robust community with those people, right? We had association, right? I was at Mariner's church at 10 o'clock, but we didn't have participation in one of others lives.
So I think having that is so essential. But then with participation for what? Well, part of it's the life of being the body of Christ together, walking in spiritual community. But, you know, we're also sent on mission.
Jesus says, as the Father has sent me, even so sent out you. So those 575 life group leaders who are listening here in the life of our church, my church now, too. So in the life of our church, we've got to not just have participation in one of their lives, but we need to participate in Jesus' mission together. And there are different ways to do that.
We talk about those on Sundays or through the website and other resources. So I think you can't, you can't, what I say to people is that the life group ministry, we call it small group generically, we call it life group. There's no more important ministry in the life of the church than life groups. You can say other things are equally important.
It's not even more important than life groups. So having that life group community is essential. But if it just becomes sort of containers, like we've got 575 containers so that we make sure nobody falls out of the life of the church, which the service on Sundays and Saturdays is too big, that misses it. It's also, we're here to join Jesus on mission together, and that's part of our role is like the really, really amazing.
So giving all this for free right now, guys, it's a great reminder of what we're called to do and how we're supposed to activate the kingdom and through our groups. And I think one of the ways in which we can do that is how we not only respond to the intellectual question, but how our lives persevere through suffering. And so, in other words, that's what we're talking about. We look at the questions that are often confronting Christian faith.
Tell me about suffering. How could that be? God who is, we believe, both loving and powerful, but there's so much injustice and brokenness. We have an opportunity not to just respond intellectually, but to relax.
That's part of our mission. But we'll love to hear just how you're thinking through the message this weekend and anchor text. The giant question, right? It's a massive one of why suffering.
Yeah, mostly don't know that Eric and I are like really close friends. So I would joke with him and say, hey, thanks for giving me the easy sentence. But none of them are easy, right? We're talking about issues of sexuality.
We're talking about issues of why, in my case, I'll be talking about suffering. And what I would say is to deeply personal subject for me and you'll hear me talk about this. Well, this comes out before after the message. It comes out Friday before you speak.
So you'll hear me share some stories of personal tragedy that I still have answers to. And I think one of the things that you're going to hear me talk about on Sunday, or if you'll listen afterwards, we know that as you heard me talk about is that the right answer is, I don't know why. I mean, I have theological categories that explain why the world's broken, the brokenness of the world leads to suffering. Right.
Sometimes God uses this specifically for some purpose or agenda he has that he brings into our life. He's always working those things for his purposes. But I don't know why, but I know who. And I think that's going to be an important distinction that if you're listening to this before the message, is that I'm going to point people to not have the expectation.
I think it's an unrealistic expectation that you will know why so-and-so has suffered in the way that she or he has suffered. I think ultimately the expectation is that in the midst of suffering we have a God who is present that gives us grace and strength. And we have the expectation that one day that will be made clear as to the why. But I think we're going to look at Joseph and the famous phrase in Genesis, what you made for evil, God meant for good.
But what I want to say to you is if you heard the message or you hear the message, there are no, I actually find unhelpful. I talk some about my sister's death, that many Christians who tried to encourage our family after her untimely death of a rare form of cancer. They said, well, you know, God works all things together for good. Well, when you see a 20-year-old girl die of painful cancer, pithy phrases, even phrases from scripture are probably not what people need.
They don't need Bible verses quoted to them. They need ultimately to know that you're with them in the midst of that suffering, or maybe you're experiencing that to the Lord's with you in the midst of your suffering. And I think that's the thing I'm going to point people towards as we walk through this. I'm giving mine for most people.
I haven't preached this message yet, so we're still building, I'm still building somebody outline and some of the details of that. That's great. Beautiful. And as you said, it's not an ethereal kind of conversation.
This is a real personal one. Yeah, I'm debating, actually, because, you know, people who listen afterwards will know what we're doing. I'm actually debating saying how many of you have experienced a suffering, a great suffering, or know someone who's experienced suffering with somebody and still don't know why in Don't you have questions for God about it. And I don't know if I'm going to do it or not, but because so much people that might be too much.
We'll see people listening afterwards. But my guess is all around the room, people raise their hands because if it's not you personally, I probably have experienced a great suffering personally, but I've seen my sister or I'm going to just as I was coming here as I was driving to California. I got word that a friend of mine, a partner in ministry that I do podcast with. They call the New Church podcast, most of the New Church, my podcast in the world.
He died in a plane crash. Don't back see his family. I mean, guys in the guys in his 40s, young kids. I got no words.
I got no answers. And yet I got Jesus and I can play the image. That's what we're going to walk through. So I do expect it to be a challenging message.
But let's be honest, all of them in the series are. And again, I just appreciate Eric and your district church leaning into some of the tough questions. I think too many people non-Christians and Christians alike look at the church and say they're not asking an answer in the hard questions. So let's do it together.
That's right. And we do believe Christian is in a unique position to respond to, to give us to navigate the realities of suffering in this world. And so leaders, we are so proud of you and the way that you're going to navigate this conversation this week. We really look forward to man, the conversations are going to come and pay attention to the resources that are out there with you.
And this is a great series for us to not only lean into in our groups, but as we talked about the invitation to mission. There are people in your lives that are currently in your life group that are asking these questions. So what a great moment to bring them into the great kingdom story. Thank you so much for your time.
I want to bring you some bolder. Do you mind praying for our group leaders? We would love that. I should never mind praying.
It's a good question. Father, thank you. That by your grace and your goodness, you redeemed us, called us by name and sent us on a mission for your name's sake. As we are, like your leaders gathered to even listening here, I pray that we might follow the teaching description to do what the writer fevers says to provoke one another loving good deeds.
And we might be those who are ready to give an answer and do so with generalists and respect. And even as our life leaders are particularly in this conversation now, probably sometimes feeling unprepared because we're talking about some real tough issues on the table. I pray you give them wisdom, grace, strength, humility, patience. I love for the people that they lead and they serve through their lifers in Jesus.
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. Look forward to having you around here with us.
And life group leaders, we love you supporting you. Believe in what God is doing. And we'll see you on here next week.