Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader Podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Hi everyone, welcome to the Life Group Leader Podcast. My name is Scott and I'm here with Esther and we're excited to get into today's conversations about the topic of can a Christian lose their salvation?
We hope these discussions will help you lead and facilitate your group in an effective way. So why don't we just dive in Esther and kind of go with that first question of, what's your time? Was there a time when you lost something that was significant and important to you and then you found it? Oh my God.
What was that one? Yes. I mean, I lose a lot of things. So if anybody knows tile, you know tile, it's like a brain.
Yeah, yes. You put your keys and you're all, it's, anyways, but the most precious thing was my wedding ring. You know, like, yeah, sometimes I, you know, take it off to the gym or, you know, if I don't put it at the same spot or we, but you know, our jewelry, then I lose it. And there was a time where I lost it for a few days where I couldn't find it and I didn't tell my husband yet.
Yeah. Yeah. And before I had to break the news, I found it, which was amazing. How about you guys?
Yeah. So I lose a lot of things too. Oh my God. I can't believe we worked together.
I actually lost my ring as well too. And I never found it. So this is in a trip to Atlanta. Maybe you didn't have it.
Hopefully you didn't have any diamonds on the ring of that. No, it was, yeah, it was platinum. But I did lose my wallet one time at the movie theater and I came home and realized I left it there. And so I went back and it was the next movie in the middle of the movie.
I was going under the seats and long to hold. It was right there. Right there. You left it.
And now I was overjoyed. But yeah, I mean, that is something that I think all of us struggle with when we lose stuff. That's right. That's right.
That's involved down. But let's just dig into the scripture passages for this week. The question of, you know, when Paul says in Ephesians 1, the Holy Spirit is given as a down payment of our inheritance. So does that mean we can somehow lose that down payment that God has given us?
What do you think? You're going to learn through the passage and also through whoever's teaching at your congregation that no passage is clear that the Holy Spirit will not be revoked or taken away. And that eternal life is secure. So how amazing is that we get to live from that place of approval, that place of something not being taken away?
Yeah. You know, I think this is one of those things that people do struggle with. Yes it is. You know, people would have raised their hands at a church retreat when they were in junior high school.
I've experienced that where I questioned, am I really saved? When I had drifted from my faith, when I had struggled with certain sins. And so these are things that in our life group, people are going to come with. And when the Bible says that we're sealed, the promise of the Holy Spirit is with us, like how do we know for certain that we are his?
That's a great question. I think what I love about that is like you look across. I know that sounds so it's such like a cliche answer. But our salvation is not dependent upon our belief as an art grip of him, as much as it's about his grip with us.
So I know, and it's not something to be taken lightly or and be walk away from the Lord and we don't live in the reality of our obedience to him. But you know, when he saves us, when he has a grip of our lives, I know that people who are in the world, they walk away. So maybe in your life group, you guys can maybe don't let it go get derailed too much. But you know, maybe you got saved in high school and then in college, you kind of had a season of like party.
And maybe talking about like where was God there? And where were you? You maybe have been far, but God was right there. He was in the club with you and reeling you back so that you would have this moment right now where you're in the life group.
And if you're listening to this, that means you're leading a life group. So the Lord know when you're in the club far away from him in a season that you would be leading when he would call me back. And so God sees the entire picture of our lives. He doesn't work, life doesn't work linearly and just chronologically.
God is working amongst all the layers calling us back. I love that. As you're sharing right now, those two verses Ephesians 2, 8, 9 are talking about spite grace that we've been saved. It's not anything that we've done.
So that was something I struggled with. I got to perform a behavior to earn God's life. But if grace is, for salvation isn't something that we could even earn in the first place, we can't lose it. It's a gift that has been given to us.
And another thing you might have said is like in Philippians 1, 6 where Paul talks about he began and could work in you and will be faithfully complete what he started. So there are all given times when we struggle on a drift that doesn't mean that he has abandoned us. And that brings us back to him. That is the goal of what God is doing.
As we look out in that next question, it's like what makes it so hard to believe that no slip-ups or sins can take away God's love from us. What do you think about that? I mean, I think the reason why we struggle with that is because our love is conditional. I have had three kids.
And so I think about, I love them so much, but I see in my own flesh that I'm conditional too. But God's love is unconditional. I'm a squisher. So I think it's hard for us to conceptualize because we sometimes perceive God to function the way that we do.
But he is like no other. That's why he is holy. And so maybe that's why we have a hard time. But I do think there is a difference between walking into intimacy with God and then having our salvation secured.
Our salvation is always secure. But then our proximity with God, our being in life groups, being in community, being in God's word, and communing with God, that does depend upon our constant engagement with the work, right? And so I think that's a reason why we have a relationship and a flourishing relationship. But I think it's hard because we think that God thinks like us and he is like no other.
But he's not. No, I think that's so true. I mean, growing up in my family, I love my parents, but you know, my dad, there was this part where I felt like I needed his approval. And even in the workplace, we just had this conversation recently about wanting to get people to prove and ultimately God approves of us and we find our worth and identity in him.
And so you're right, like his love is unconditional. And that should prompt us, because of his unfailing love, because of his grace, should prompt us to want to pursue him even more, but not trying to even earn salvation or earn his love in that way. So that's good. Kind of leading to the last question of looking in toward the end of the message was the question was the topic of where this group meeting is, can a Christian lose his or her salvation?
And it's an admin. No, God's grip is stronger than our slip ups and our mess ups. So I think this is an opportunity for us to be vulnerable in our life group of how that makes us feel. Yeah.
Is it overjoy, peace, relief? Yeah. What are some things that you feel to know that nothing can separate your feelings of love? I think something that also could be practical in your time with your life group is kind of going around and think about scenarios where you do slip.
Yeah. It's at work and you get that email and you're like, you know, or an interaction with the coworker or it's an interaction with your kids or whatever it is. And think about how you want to go into that mode of wanting to strive. What truth do you need to remember to realize that you already have his love and you can flow from that?
I don't know if I like group would probably go around and we'd share that. I could think of these moments that I'm like, oh God, it's for sure to squeeze with my reaction here. And I would think that I'd have to make up for it. Like how should we, yeah, if we were to think ahead of time, we should respond or what we should remember.
That could be kind of a fun action. Actually, it's fine. Alright, everybody share with the moment you slip, you know? Yeah.
So we've been having some really awesome conversations with our life group, especially through the therapy weekend and have been really going deeper. And so if you're rid of rhythm that you guys want to talk about is repentance, like this is the place that I slip. Okay, what do you need to do? Yeah.
Yeah. To be reminded of the cross, the grip of God. Yeah. That could be a great thing.
Yeah. Well, that's really good. I think in our group, we, it's a Mary couples group with kids and as parents, we often feel like failures and in our marriages as husbands and wives, we can often feel like we fall short and we slip and to have that reminder to know that he's with us in all times and all places. You know, I once heard this one kind of illustration of like a trapeze artist, you know, the people on the tightrope.
And some, this person was talking about our walk of faith, our faith walker journey is kind of like that. We're in this, you know, that's a trapeze artist. Yeah. But when we fall, when we slip and fall, we know that there is this net, the net of God's grace that helps us to not perish, to not die when we fall.
And so I thought that always stuck to me. This was about 20 something years ago. It's a bit of a death message. Yeah.
But also this has been great. And we really are praying and hoping that your discussions in your life group are rich and transparent and fulfilling and just to encourage you, I think the big thing is to keep this discussion very transparent as you model the way as group leaders, others will follow. And we all struggle. We all have questions and to be open about it and vulnerable really help others that will be open up as well.
Sorry. Any final thoughts? I just want to say thank you, Life Group leaders. I mean, we're halfway through on the table.
And so I'm sure you've been doing a phenomenal job leading your life group through difficult questions, but it's also probably brought out such intimate, vulnerable, amazing conversations. And so great job. Let's finish strong through on the table and just reaching you right on. Thanks, Esther.
Of course.