Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Sophie Grégoire Trudeau about her closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference. Justin asks Sophie about her connection to risk managers or risk professionals. Sophie explains that all decision-makers are risk assessors. Justin and Sophie address leadership in incredibly high-profile environments and the qualities Sophie believes define strong leadership today, when people are facing uncertainty, competing priorities, or significant change. Sophie explores the window of tolerance.   Sophie explains how Canada is often viewed internationally as collaborative and consensus-driven, and the uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that she believes have value on the global stage. Sophie touches on her wellness practices, the importance of adaptability, and what adaptability is.   Listen for Sophie's single most important principle she would share with risk professionals.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We are delighted to present an interview with one of Canada's national treasures, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. [:39] Sophie is an author and mental wellness advocate, and will be the closing keynote speaker at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 21st. There's so much to discuss! But first… [:49] Plugs: This is the last call for educational content submissions for RISKWORLD 2027, which will be in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. The deadline for submissions is August 21st, just a few days from the launch of this episode. [1:07] The submissions link is in this episode's show notes. [1:10] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. On August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day, in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes. [1:30] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes. [1:39] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers. [1:55] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th. [2:08] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership. [2:18] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." A link is in this episode's show notes. [2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:49] On with the Show! I will be joined by a co-host today. She is the RIMS Canada National Conference Committee Chair and RIMScast Canada host, Aaron Lukoni. Aaron and I both wanted to interview our guest today, so we are sharing hosting duties. [3:08] We are amped up for this interview with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The RIMScast Canada video of this interview will be available this week at RIMS.org/Canada. [3:18] Sophie is the author of Closer Together: Knowing Ourselves, Loving Each Other, a Number 1 bestseller featured in Audible Canada's Best of 2024 list. She is the former wife of Justin Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada. [3:35] We are excited that she will be the closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference, which will be held from October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Register at RIMSCanadaConference.ca. [3:46] Today we will get a preview of her keynote and her perspective on risk management. She will open our minds to something called the window of tolerance. Learn more about her at Sophiegregoiretrudeau.com. There's a lot of energy in the RIMScast studio today. Let's get to it! [4:05] Interview! Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, welcome to RIMScast! [4:11] Sophie says to everybody listening that she is so, so happy to be here. She comments on the saying that life is not a private affair. She expounds that we have so much to learn from one another. Conversations like these are about business but even more about humanity. [4:38] Sophie says humanity will never be lost. Whatever we think that AI will do to our world, humanity will reign. We have to make sure we understand humanity to be able to manage it well. [4:56] Sophie says the etymology of the word risk is uncertain. It comes from the Italian word risco, having to do with navigation dangers. But some historians say it comes from a Greek word meaning root, cliff, or hazard. [5:47] Sophie says, finance, through history, has changed the word risk to mean not only facing danger, but also the uncertainty surrounding the outcome of a decision. [6:00] Sophie says she has talked with popes, queens, kings, farmers, teachers, nurses, and others who don't fit the definition of only being in risk assessment. [5:22] But human beings, whatever they do in life, have been dedicated to countering the true nature of our primal brain, which doesn't like uncertainty. [6:35] Sophie has a lot of respect and reverence for risk management people, who do this as their daily jobs, because it means that you've got to be seeing the world as it is and not from your perspective. Sophie says she finds that's what the world needs these days. [7:06] Justin had the chance to listen to Sophie on some other shows, such as the Aspen Institute last year, and a show called Can't Be Sensored. Justin is listening to Sophie's audiobook, and he comments that she does a lot of research. [7:33] Sophie says she keeps herself grounded, as a teacher and coach, so whenever she gets on a stage, whether she's talking to 50 people or 10,000, she has always done her research and homework. As she ages, she finds the homework is paying off. She never takes it for granted.  [8:24] Sophie says she was on the co-political path for almost 15 years. Assessing risk is all they do every day, and seeing how you can save the most vulnerable in every situation. When people see Sophie at events in high heels and a dress to mingle, that's not what politics is about at all. [8:47] Sophie says politics is about serving each other, assessing risk, and making decisions with the most discernment, facts, and data, from a regulated state. [9:00] Sophie says, if you look at the state of the world, so many leaders aren't well-regulated and aren't well-informed. When it comes to risk management, that is of absolute importance. [9:16] Aaron asks Sophie what qualities define strong leadership in today's workforce and society, when facing uncertainty, competing priorities, and significant changes. [9:34] Sophie says she is passionate about the answers to that question. Her life's devotion is studying the neuroscience behind personality. That's why she wrote Closer Together, to make it accessible to everybody, whether low-profile or high-profile. [10:02] Sophie says what is really impressive in a true leader is the human capacity to see the world for what it is and not through who they are. That takes a lot of emotional regulation, emotional maturity, and a lot of work on one's inner world. [10:17] Sophie introduces the concept of the window of tolerance. AI is coming at an incessant speed. Our brains are not ready for that speed. [10:40] We're being bombarded with information and new situations at the high rate of efficiency of machines, and we're just trying to adapt. We're all in reaction mode. [10:54] When we're in reaction mode, and we're not prepared for whatever risk is coming, we are brought back to our own window of tolerance. It's part of being a human being. [11:17] Sophie says your first childhood bond of attachment, in your pre-verbal years, makes you the leader that you are today. From zero to two years old, you form a bond of attachment called the epistemic bond of trust. [11:34] The epistemic bond of trust is the first bond of trust you build with another human being, the person who took care of you, and the outside world. [11:44] It's a dance; a vocal, visual, earful dance, nervous system to nervous system, right brain to right brain, the hemisphere responsible for the emotional development of the human brain. That dance lasts from zero to two years. [12:08] Sophie says it sets a tone in your nervous system. Did you have a parent who was present? What was the quality, the consistency, the presence, and the playfulness? What is the tone that it set in your nervous system as a child? [12:27] You carry this in every single adult relationship that you'll ever have, including the ones with your employees or your colleagues. [12:35] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more. [12:57] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships. [13:05] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! [13:17] Reach out to Ted Donovan at [email protected] or reach out to Sales at [email protected]. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization. [13:30] Let's Return to Our Dialog about Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau! [13:38] Sophie says, when you're put in front of a decision where you have to weigh the risk, and when you know that there are risks implicated in the outcome, people in risk management and finance say there will be no revenue without risk, so you have to take risk. How do you assess it? [14:02] Sophie says it comes back to your nervous system and your capacity to see the world as it is and not as you are. [14:08] If your first childhood bond of attachment was insecure, anxious, or disorganized, you're not starting with a solid base of being able to adapt to unusual circumstances. Right now, we are living in abnormal circumstances. [14:28] Sophie says we're pathologizing a lot of our conditions: from ADHD to so many other psychological conditions, but most experts will tell you we're not sick people; we're just trying to adapt the nervous system we were given to abnormal living circumstances. [14:45] Sitting at a desk for 12 hours a day, not moving, eating poorly, or not sleeping well will affect our capacity to lead. [14:55] Sophie says our window of tolerance is like a bell curve between an upper and a lower line. Your window of tolerance is within those two lines. Some people's bell curve is halfway between the two lines. Some people are more at the peak; some are more at the flat line. [15:36] It depends on how you were able to construct your capacity to adapt to change from what you received in early childhood, from your experiences through childhood, and whether you know or not about your own trauma and suffering. [15:51] Sophie says suffering is a normal part of human life. Trauma is what happens when we don't look efficiently at our suffering and when we don't know how to manage our emotions, whether you're a parent, a student, or a leader in a position where you have to take risks. [16:15] Sophie says our window of tolerance is a good metaphor for how we assess risk and how we lead teams into risk, and how we can mitigate risk and the outcomes of risk. Sometimes we face bad situations. How do we adapt to that? [16:37] Aaron mentions it's our emotional regulation. Sophie says, from the beginning to the grave, our capacity to emotionally regulate ourselves, especially in difficult situations, makes us courageous leaders or not. [16:56] Sophie says, in this window of tolerance, we can insert a more precise marker for capacity to adapt, which is Heart Rate Variability (HRV). This is your capacity to go from a very stressful situation back to homeostasis, a balanced nervous system. [17:13] Sophie asks, What are you presented with in your company? What are your clients asking for? How much risk are you assessing, and how can you take really difficult situations and come back to a regulated team, a regulated balance sheet, and a regulated vision for your enterprise? [17:31] Sophie says, as much as we are at risk with technology, it is also an ally because it gives us facts and data, which we cannot push away. Science is on our side when it comes to leadership, because we understand the importance of regulation at every step. [17:53] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By contributing, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [18:13] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [18:27] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [18:46] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.  [18:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Canada Conference Keynote Sophie Grégoire Trudeau! [19:03] Justin asks Sophie for an example of a person she has met with a broad window of tolerance. Sophie says she is quite discerning when it comes to picking people like that. [19:29] One man Sophie has been impressed with in his capacity to regulate emotionally, would be Barack Obama in his personality; his capacity to stay regulated in front of the obstacle. [19:53] Sophie refers to what has been done in Canada in the past 15 years, and people who have sacrificed their families and have been so courageous in the face of uncertainty.  [20:05] Sophie says Chancellor Angela Merkel from Germany is the type of woman who has a very stoic way of dealing with conflict. [20:17] There are so many. There are a lot of people who have impressed Sophie who are not known to the public. She has also seen it in her home, including her former partner and colleagues. Sophie has a lot of respect for public servants. [20:54] Sophie says, obviously, the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks she has met and whom she admires. [21:04] Sophie says discerning spirituality is wisdom from a place where you are in such deep service that every decision you make, even risk decisions, looks to a greater force that can guide us through its humanity, in cohesion and integrity, qualities that make a leader outstanding. [21:54] Justin views Canada as a collaborative, consensus-driven nation. He asks Sophie if there are uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that have value on the global stage. [22:11] Sophie says, Yes. She has seen it from the inside out. She had such a unique position. She says another great quality of a leader is staying close to people and not building walls between them. You come from a place of non-threat, so differences are not a threat but a plus. [22:34] Sophie thinks that Canada sits on this basin of such talent and diversity that allows Canadians in their daily lives not to tolerate risk and difference but to accept it as part of their way of living. Sophie speaks of this on shows. Canada is not at risk of extremism. [23:06] Sophie says Canada has a discerning social hand of wisdom. Canada counts on it. They need to keep feeding that hand. They can't take it for granted. [23:26] Sophie mentions that Canada has diversity, has more women in the boardroom, and in the past decade, how many women have run in politics has changed, which has changed the landscape as well. [23:41] Sophie says the data has proven that more women in governance, in the boardroom, and in politics means more empathy, more open leadership, and more inclusivity, and the world needs this now, on all levels. Canada is proud of this. Every day is another day to get better. [24:03] Sophie says that all the best leaders she has spoken to, whether Olympic athletes or trainers, doctors, or risk assessment specialists, it's about every time you do well, you celebrate the small wins, but you always know you can do better. [24:22] How is it that we can do better? How is it that we can adapt better and make everyone better at the same time? In co-politics, when we invest in the middle class, it's because we know the data shows that it lifts poverty up. [24:40] Sophie says in a company, if you celebrate diversity, include people, celebrate the small wins, and elevate in your style of leadership, instead of dominating, you'll give yourself better chances to create a performing, cohesive team that can deal with great troubles. [25:12] Justin says, Sophie, we are so excited to see you in Quebec on October 21st at 8:30 a.m. Sophie is a morning person. [25:52] Aaron asks, If you could leave risk leaders around the world with one idea from Closer Together, that would help them build stronger organizations, not just stronger people, what would you hope that they're going to take away from that? [26:05] Sophie says, Know yourself. Know yourself. Get to the core of who you are. Leave all the titles, accomplishments, and risks aside for a moment and go back to who you are and how you function. [26:22] Sophie mentions the 7 Cs: Competence, Creativity, Courage, Communication, Coaching, knowing your inner Compass, and Citizenship. It starts by knowing who you are as a human being and becoming the best leader that you can be. Aaron thanks Sophie for that great advice. [27:22] Special thanks again to Sophie Grégoire Trudeau for joining us here on RIMScast. Catch the video dialog on RIMScast Canada, which you can find at RIMS.org/canada. Of course, remember to register for the RIMS Canada Conference at RIMSCanadaConference.ca. [27:40] We will see you in Quebec City from October 18th through 21st.  [27:45] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [28:02] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [28:19] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [28:32] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [28:44] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the full video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21. RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. 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RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2 Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept. 1, 2026 "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept. 9, 2026 "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal about Frequency, Severity, and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Distilling Risk and Resilience with Manjit K. 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Sophie Grégoire Trudeau Author. Keynote Speaker. Mental Health Advocate.   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.