Optionality Collapse: We're Investing in a Future That Won't Exist with Indy Johar

Traditional financial management tells us that, if we invest right, we'll be able to retire and sink into a future of comfort and stability – and even pass on your wealth to your children and grandchildren. But this vision is built on an anomalous period of stability in which climate, energy resources, and labor markets were all predictable. As ecological breakdown, resource conflict, and AI-driven labor disruption begin to feed into one another, that predictability is slipping away. How can we better position hundreds of trillions of dollars in claims on the future to withstand uncertainty in the increasingly volatile world ahead? In this episode, Nate welcomes back Indy Johar, co-founder of Dark Matter Labs, for an exploration of how coupled systemic risks are reshaping capital, institutions, and what it means to invest for the future. Indy explains why most financial forecasting – built on linear, siloed models – misses the compounding, coupled crises we will have to face, and argues that "civilizational optionality" is diminishing, threatening the value of our claims on the future (money). Indy presents the Civilizational Optionality Fund as a way to protect these claims, while also increasing the ability of societies to adapt, mitigate, and respond to crises from various directions. Indy and Nate also discuss their deeper philosophies about humanity, emphasizing doubt and humility as critical mentalities for anyone attempting to navigate a future that will look very different from the past. How much money is currently being saved for a future that isn't even available to buy? How might a "civilizational Sharpe ratio" – one that weighs returns against systemic volatility – change the way wealth is allocated, and broaden how we measure the capital returns? And if moments of crisis are when cultural narratives shift, what can each of us do now to cultivate the ideas, relationships, and courage needed to meet them? (Conversation recorded on September 23rd, 2026) About Indy Johar: Indy Johar is the co-founder of DarkMatterLabs, where he is currently building a stealth initiative to expand civilizational optionality. He is a professor at RMIT University, and the Executive Director of Project 00. An architect by training, he is also Non-Executive Director of the WikiHouse Foundation and Bloxhub, as well as a Vision Keeper at The Collaborative for Systemic Climate action. He writes frequently on his Substack. Show Notes and More Watch this video episode on YouTube Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie. --- Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future Join our Substack newsletter Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners