Hello and welcome to the Gifted Life Podcast where we have conversations about organ tissue and I know nation you can always find us at the GiftedLife.org. I'm Roy Steele. I'm Joey Boudreau. I'm Sarah Blakemore.
On today's episode we'll be teaming up with another podcast called Undertaking the Podcast where they educate the public about all things funeral. And sympathy versus empathy. Ooh, all that and more right here the Gifted Life. Here we go.
We are an excited Gifted Life podcast crew because we're teaming with another podcast. It's called Undertaking the Podcast. Mr. Brian Waters joins us now.
How are you Brian? I'm awesome. Hey, thanks so much for having us. Normally solo, right?
Yeah, normally my co-host Ryan, just kind of part of our life as funeral directors was called away and was unable to join us for our chat today. But we'll be trucking on without him, I suppose. There you go. We're getting the word out, which is good.
We focus on educating, spurring, healthy conversations about organ tissue and idol nation. We wanted to partner up with you. We're going to tell you why guys. Undertaking the podcast is about what?
Tell us about that. Well, I'm taking the podcast is really two funeral directors just having everyday conversations. We highlight guests as well. And our thought process from the beginning is to just put all this out in the open because there's so much information with the internet that you can go out and find.
But very little of that is just if you don't have conversations trying to get better ourselves and get those conversations out to the public. And we just wanted to sit down unscripted, record and put it out there and see where it went. And we're coming up on our first year anniversary. And it's been a pretty smashing success.
We're just trying to keep graphs to what's going on here with it. Yes. So I downloaded some of your podcasts, kind of get a feel for you guys. You seem to genuinely like each other.
Is that true or is that just for the podcast? No, that is true. That is true. We don't have a really long history together though.
Our funeral homes are about 40 minutes away and we both grew up in funeral families, small town funeral homes. And although we knew of each other, we did not interact often. I'm going on 15 years within funeral service. Ryan's a little newer.
He's going on a second year. But we're about the same age. But once we introduced each other, we started brainstorming back and forth about how business and how we can get better. And it just blossomed into this friendship that ended in a podcast, strangely enough.
I like it. Undertaking the podcast. If you're looking for a new podcast to listen to it's an easy listen. You guys are enjoyable.
You're talking about funerals and things, but it's just come and talk. Things we all think about, talk about, you guys just say it on the podcast. But tell us how you kind of got into the funeral industry. Well, both of us, Ryan and I both grew up in a family funeral home.
I went into funeral service directly out of high school, went to college to train as a funeral director. Ryan went off into the paramedic field and came into it about 13 years later. But we had a little bit of a background in it. But most people think, oh, you knew what you're getting into.
But frankly, we didn't. It was one of those trial by fires just like anyone else getting into the business. We had an idea of what it was. And so you live that life.
You can't really explain to someone wanting to come into the funeral world what it really is like. Yeah, one of the things that I like listening to, you said we're just human and really nothing can prepare you for dealing with these families. We talk about that here as well. And so we want to touch on some of that.
I'm also going to bring up now. We do talk about working in tissue, Idaho Nation. One of the things that I noticed was that you guys have a partnership with the Indiana donor network. And I'm like, okay, are you thought these guys were cool now from my perspective, from my chair, even cooler stuff?
Like, how did that happen? Well, we've got a relationship here in Indiana with our Indiana donor network. And it's a working relationship with funeral directors and the donor network on building a relationship with each other so we can all serve our families better. So we had a little bit of a background already.
And once they heard we were starting a podcast, I got a phone call out of the blue and they wanted to know, hey, how can we be involved in this from the get go? And before Ryan and I had content to even release, we had to start thinking, oh, we didn't even think about sponsorships. Now we're going to have to start a business. So we jumped right into it without really frankly much thought.
We just started creating content. And then these partnerships started to grow once we formed undertaking the podcast, the business. And we, the long and short of it is as a couple of funeral directors who support organ and tissue donation, our goals lined up with, we believe, with the Indiana donor network and they were so gracious enough to give us their support. That's amazing.
And you know, a lot of what you're saying right there, we have been trying to partner up and we have for years here in Louisiana with our funeral homes. We've got a funeral home subcommittee that reports to our advisory board. And we do a lot of work hand in hand with those guys in educating other funeral home directors and of course, you know, having conversations with the public. What have you guys focused on with your partnership with IDN as far as education and as it pertains to the podcast?
Well, with our partnership on our advisory committee, we brainstorm best practices, best ways of communicating with funeral homes. And as far as the podcast goes, we're very pro-organ donation. Just frankly, we're pro-life. We believe that all life is precious and important and there are ways to preserve life even after death.
And sometimes funeral directors, I don't mean to throw us, I can't group us all together and throw us under the bus, but traditionally we've not been the most supportive group of individuals when it comes to the gift of life. And we believe that voice within funeral service is not being put out there much. We had a platform and this we were just speaking our personal truth, frankly, is that we believe in it. We know we just go back to our personal life.
If it was our daughters that needed a life-saving transplant or a tissue donation, we know it would be important then. So why isn't it important when it's for our neighbors? And we wanted to get that message out. Oh, hey Ryan Ballard just got freed up at work.
So he's able to jump right in and join me here on the podcast. How about that? How are you guys? Awesome.
Fantastic. So Ryan Ballard is the other, the co-host of Undertaken the podcast. So actually Ryan and I'll pose this to you both of you guys. We were just talking a little bit about the donation process and how it ties with funeral homes.
And one of the things that Brian had mentioned was that historically there have been some of your colleagues that have kind of looked at donation as a negative light in some situations and they haven't seen it for what it's really about the gift of life. And what I was going to ask was, so what are the big challenges that you guys have heard from your colleagues about donation and why has there kind of been a negative stigma? Are you asking me? Yes, to Brian.
Both of you guys either. Ryan, you want me to start out? Go ahead, Ryan. I'll be honest.
The biggest issue that I guess a lot of people have is just communication. You know, from the standpoint of whether it's the donor network or, you know, the end of the donor network or whatever facility you're working with or entity you're working with, a phone call is really the only thing that I need to make sure I can get that loved one into my care. And that doesn't necessarily always happen. So I would say communications are the issue.
I do hear some of the directors talk about, you know, some of the extra work that does go into these cases. Do they understand fully what, you know, the donor network is, you know, with the gift, the anatomical gifts they're taking what they're going to? I don't know. That's something that maybe we should have one that I like about.
I will say this. You know, when we are dealing with the donor case, it does produce some more liability and then I would say liability and there's some more cost that comes into it because of certain chemicals that happen to be used as well as, you know, different compounds and powders that have to be used as well to drive that tissue out. You know, I don't know if, you know, from a standpoint of the, you know, directors in the donor network working together, I think we're getting to that. I think we're getting to that by creating dialogue.
You know, our association here has been extremely proactive when it comes to sitting there and getting a committee together and talking with our donor network to at least create the dialogue of, you know, not necessarily our needs at once, but how do we make things better? How can we make it easier to learn, you know, we can get that to see in our care quicker so we can do some things and, you know, negate any issues that may come up. So I would say that. Yeah, if I could just expand on that a little bit.
Yeah, there are those two factors. One, the condition of the Decedent and a lot of embalmers and funeral directors, they don't necessarily feel confident in their abilities to restore someone to an actual state for a final goodbye. And I think that that's one of the biggest things is the confidence problem. As embalmers, we are trained in almost every situation to make that answer be yes when a family says, can I see our loved one again?
But unfortunately, a lot of what Ryan and I are hearing throughout the funeral industry across the United States is many. The funeral directors are telling families no. And this is huge on our part. The answer needs to be yes in almost every situation.
And it can be. And it can be. There's nothing that the gift of life in Oregon or tissue donation does that makes that answer no. That only reflects on the embalmers confidence and skill.
Back to communication, communication is absolutely key is knowing that we will be receiving someone in our care. And within the funeral service, the funeral directors talk a lot. Like anybody else, we complain a lot a little bit too. So we don't receive that notice.
They can be troublesome when a family walks into our door and they say, we're here to make arrangements for mom. And the funeral has no idea that their loved one has even passed. This is a big problem with funeral directors and funeral homes. The donor network will get the blame for that.
Although it may not be responsible for that at all. So when our donor network knows the funeral home, we're getting phone calls. And that's what we appreciate. That's what we want to extend to them is that we need that phone call so we can.
First, we are aware that we will be receiving someone's because no one wants to be caught off guard. And it's horrible. It's horrible to have a family come in and catch you off guard. And I guess that would be the biggest thing.
They come in and ask those questions as to where mom or dad is. And you know, mom or dad died last night or yesterday or whatever else. And we don't necessarily have any answers for them. We have to do some research.
So for me, I welcome a phone call just saying, hey, we've got somebody that's going to be coming into your care. We'll notify you when things are accomplished and gone. So it just works better that way. It's so cute.
Really is. Go ahead. I was just going to say, so I'm the chief clinical officer here in Louisiana and been doing this for, I don't know, 18 years or so. And years ago, I believe that was one of our biggest challenges too was that communication, the platform and when to do it and how often or whatever.
And so everything you guys are saying are certainly things that we have seen here. And we've implemented in Sarah, who's part of our podcast is also one of our family advocates who goes and supports the family through that initial timeframe. And what we have implemented here is, you know, that's one of the questions that are that's asked at the time of the authorization, if they've got a funeral home that they decided on and that way Sarah can give them a notification early on. And so we've seen a lot better responsiveness, you know, responses from the funeral home and the families themselves.
So we've certainly seen a lot of the same things. And I think, you know, with just an open dialogue between funeral directors and donor networks, it's only going to improve. And that's why we feel very, very confident that it's only going to get better over time. Right.
So we said, I do work with our families. And so it's so refreshing to hear how you want. We want to make sure that when we're working with families that they can have which ever funeral services that they want and that donation will not get in the way of that. So my question is, what are some of the things that y'all have had families do to honor their donor hero in their funeral services?
A lot of families will actually place a portion of their obituary to let the world know that they have chosen their, you know, to give their life with their loved ones. Here at the funeral home, we've actually set out some wristbands that were provided to us by the internet where it says be a hero on it. And the community just took those as fast as I could put them out. The families that do choose this are very proud of that.
They are uplifted in a way that's sometimes hard to describe that they know although their loved ones gone, they've got something else too, something positive to reflect on knowing that they've helped others. And those stories are shared at the funeral home where their services are. And it's just one more thing that we can do to honor a life well lived. Well, and I think there's some other things to it, you know, the donor network or app, you know, they provide almost like a, a, a valiant, uh, that honors that loved one.
We can have that set out at the funeral. We have a donor network flags that we put on all our cars for someone that has donated, that's given that gift, um, you know, for, for a procession. So we, we try to support that as much as possible at the cemetery. Sometimes we'll have a donate life flag out there, uh, waving in the wind in the background.
And people will go over and take pictures with it. Family will actually, uh, they embrace it, you know, and honestly, they, they should. Why not? You know, it's something that helps other people.
Um, but you know, I think they truly appreciate the fact that it is being celebrated, um, that they are being honored for that gift. So there are any ways you can go about, you know, celebrating the fact that they were or I don't, um, you know, I think it just depends on, uh, think out, think outside the box a little bit as a director or as a network itself. Yeah. Like you, like Ryan mentioned, uh, a lot of these ideas are kind of funeral director driven and a lot of them are family driven as well.
So it, it depends on how open and accepting your funeral director is on how, how some of these ideas flow. And the other things you bring up, you know, you can do, for instance, a don't, uh, donate life head panel. We've talked our don't, we've talked about something like that. There's obviously some rights reserved and copy rights or whatever else, uh, but that doesn't seem to be too big of an issue when it comes to that network, uh, whoever you're dealing with, uh, as long as you're promoting the donation, you know what I mean?
So, um, you know, we've, we've done that. We've been able to get a few head panels made for, uh, for families and no keep those, uh, you know, and take those home. So there's just ways it's, like Ryan said, the funeral director has to fix outside the box a little bit because this is our realm. This is what we do.
Uh, we, we are the ones that put the service together. How can we incorporate, uh, you know, the anatomical, the, the, that person, David's service. So that's kind of something that we have, you know, we have to do it be conscious of it and do it on our own. But there's lots of ways to do it.
You know, I, I mentioned three just off the top of my head right there that we've done. So I know, I was liking this list I'm making here. If I could add one just a little tidbit then, because I know your question was how families, um, we'll, we'll, we'll talk about this and share the word, but I think, uh, um, just like we mentioned about funeral directors, the biggest gift we can give a family after they have chosen to give a gift of life is to help them honor a loved one in their way, whatever that may be, whether it be burial cremation, funeral or no funeral. But when a family asks to see their loved one again, we have to make that answer yes.
And thank you so much for doing that. It means so much. I'm sure it's every family that you work with. I'm loving the forward thinking of you guys and you generally seem to like each other.
Ryan, I think you missed that part earlier. He was talking good about you, buddy. Um, I like it. I like it.
So undertaking the podcast, we're talking to Brian and Ryan and I do want to bring it back to the basics. I'm out in the community. I deal with our volunteers. We go out and try to spell those myths and I just want to address a myth that we hear often out in our area and that is if you are an organ donor, you can't have an open casket funeral.
And you guys discuss. I just felt that right now. It's absolutely my, um, at least within our area. That's a lie and I'll call it straight out what it is.
Brian. I'm going to say. Well, let me say this. Unless unless the donor network is taking something from the facial area, um, that's, you know, of which I don't know if it's like that or true to that, but unless you're taking a job or something like that, why on earth could you not have an open casket?
Why on earth? It just doesn't make sense to me. You know, like Brian said, there's sometimes it's a little bit of the confidence of the director or it's apathy and laziness. You can pick one either one within our podcast.
We, uh, we provide the, uh, the options for people that if you're uncomfortable doing this, if you don't know what you're doing, um, there's three, three people within the midwest that would be more than happy. You have you called it, uh, it helps you with this or whatever else. So, you know, yeah, like I said, you can sugar coat it, but that's a lie. I don't believe that at all.
It is. It is a straight up myth. Just this past Monday, I spoke to a local rotary group and I looked at being a funeral director also as being a consumer advocate. So, um, as I was speaking, I was giving folks red flags to look for when you're dealing with a funeral home, funeral director or cemetery in all regards, but half of my speech, half of my talk was talking about organ and tissue donation, clearing up some of those myths.
And I did talk about this, this one issue of, you know, you can't have an open casket if you, if you have either organ tissue or both donated. And I think this has probably been, this narrative has been pushed by some lady funeral directors. And when a family is told, no, they tell others and they tell more people. And I said before this crowd and I said, if you ever hear that word, no, it's time to stop and reevaluate.
It is okay to change your mind. And because we want people to feel confident in their decisions in the way they honor their loved one. And that's what we, that's what we need to be in funeral directors, we believe. We see how he's stopping that.
Beautiful. We love it. And we want to keep talking to you guys. Um, we're going to take a break now.
We're talking to Brian Waters and Ryan Ballard of undertaking the podcast. If you're looking for a new podcast, this is one to download undertaking the podcast, uh, two guys having a conversation talking about life, talking about pre planning. Um, it's just a good one. Um, we'll be back with more of the gifted life coming up at this point in the gifted life podcast.
Miss Sarah, the spotlight's on you, ma'am. We're taking a moment for mental health. Yes, in this mental health moment, Sarah's going to be bringing us empathy versus sympathy. Okay.
Take it away, Sarah. All right. Let's do it. So today we're going to talk about what the differences are and which one is better to have.
So sympathy, sympathy is essentially feelings of compassion and sorrow for someone and which is really beneficial definitely. But the difference between sympathy and empathy is that empathy brings an understanding. It's being able to attempt to walk in someone else's shoes and to share in their experience. So they're both very valuable, but in this day and age, it's especially valuable to have empathy skills because not only do we want to feel for someone and sympathize with them.
But we also want to understand so that we can support others better and be there for their needs. In nursing school, 10 years ago or 25, something, something in early nights, that was one of the things as a nursing students that we were taught was that very thing, you know, because before that, I thought to me, empathy, sympathy is kind of synonymous. And they taught us that it's so important. Yes, it's important to have compassion and feel sorry for someone, but it's really more important as a nurse caring for that patient and their family to be empathetic and to try to put yourself in their shoes, as you mentioned.
And that way, it allows you to be able to care for them better if you're trying to understand them better. And we also learn, you know, you hear people say, well, yeah, I know exactly how you feel because it was, you know, you may have had a similar situation in the past, but no two situations are exactly the same. There's so many variables. And they taught us kind of along those lines that that is the complete opposite of being empathetic.
Right. Like there might be experiences that people can share that are similar, but people experience in different ways. So empathy isn't fully understanding someone. It's trying to understand them better so that you can be there for them.
And when you hear of people who are empathetic, you hear people who actively listen to you, who ask probing questions for a purpose. And so it's really important right now, especially with connecting. I know everything is online and there's social media. So there's lack of connection.
I'll say this. There's lack of meaningful connection. We're very connected, but not in a meaningful way. So it's really important to learn how to ask someone questions to better understand them to be there for them more.
So you're saying I'm not completely connected to all thousand of my friends. They're all coming to support you and celebrate you. All those folks on Facebook. Yeah.
Well, that's good. You guys are really great at listening, like those skills. And I was like, oh, we have to be a good listener to do that. So that's kind of neat.
Yeah. So let's live in a more empathetic world where we try to understand each other better. Yeah. Nice world.
I like that. Do you have a topic you want Mr. to cover info at the GiftedLife.org we'd love to hear from you in every episode of the Gifted Life we honor a hero. Today's hero, Misty Carroll Davis.
And we learn more about Misty through her family. Misty, you are a woman of integrity and devotion and so full of life and joy. You are a dear wife of most loving mother and stepmother, sister and our most precious daughter, how we miss you and find it so unbearable without you, but our hope in the Lord abounds and we know we will see you again. Misty, you are such a dear and friendly person in life and never met a stranger.
You cannot imagine how your legacy will always continue because of the gift of your unselfish love by being an organ donor. People who never knew you will have a more fulfilling life. Again, you never met a stranger. Misty is remembered and loved forever and ever by her family.
Mom, Pop, Wayne, Hunter, Naomi, Nicole, Bridget, Kim and Ricky. You can read more about Misty on her heroes tab at Lopa.org. And at this time we pause and say thank you to Misty for the gift of life. And our question and answer segment here on the Gifted Life, we're bringing in our new best friends, Brian and Ryan, undertaking the podcast.
Thanks guys. Thanks guys. We have a question and we thought who better to ask, right? Have you seen an increase in the number of cremations?
What would you attribute that to? Okay, Ryan, if you'll let me take it. I'll let you keep one foot out of the rabbit hole here because the first answer is yes, absolutely. There's been an increase in cremations.
We're up to about 53% nationally. It's projected that 80% of all Americans will choose cremation within the next 20 years. That's just a prediction. There are many, many reasons why we could possibly pinpoint it too, but not one.
So I will try to be brief. Cost is one of those factors. And cost is one of those factors because families aren't always choosing a final resting spot in the cemetery. And that could be because we're basically a transit society now.
We do not have that home base where we are born, raised, work, lived, die. Those Sunday family dinners with all the family there are just not happening because we're all spread out across the country. And families make purchases based on value. And if they feel that there's no one going to be around to visit a burial space, then why purchase a burial space?
But yes, we are seeing a rising cremation. In our world, we're not seeing a rise a decrease necessarily in what a family does before the cremation. We still hold the same types of services in the same locations all the time that families are choosing. So although we see a rising cremation, we're not always seeing a diminution of services.
So families will still have their loved one, whether it's in a funeral home or a church or at their home. Families still want to spend time with their loved ones so they can say those goodbyes and have that chance. And also, Brian, if I can add to that, it's the responsibility of the funeral directors well, to enlighten those families on their options. There are some families that it wasn't more than a few years ago that when it came to cremation, you weren't necessarily talking about services.
You weren't talking about having any type of visitation or having a deceased present or anything like that. Now, from a standpoint of the director, we're educating these families on yes, we can do all that. We can still have services. We can still have visitation, everything, and have your loved one present.
We can do the cremation and all that can happen after the fact. And still, I think within my area, people, we have to educate people on that a lot. And once they find out that they have that option, I think it's extremely helpful for them because then they get to get those through the entire experience. They get to work through their grief as well.
They get to see their loved one and have an acceptable, recognizable look or a memory picture that they can process for the duration of life because that person that's the last time they'll see him. So, it's about education too. The rise of cremation doesn't necessarily by any means scare myself or Brian because we're able to talk to these families and let them know that there's options here that we can do some things. And just bottom line, it's become more culturally acceptable.
All right. Great insight guys. We appreciate you taking the time. We've enjoyed our visit and I guess should I ask him this question too?
You think we should just catch him? Do you guys think that you'll relocate to Louisiana? So we can have easier access to you guys? We're just a phone call away.
I don't know that we're going to be relocating. I love the Midwest. I love the cold winters and hot summers. My buddy Steve Johnson over there, the COO at IDN.
I'm sure he'd be tackling us, if he knew we were asking you. We appreciate you guys taking the time. Maybe you have a question you want us to tackle here on the Gifted Life, send us an email info at thegiftedlife.org. And that's episode 116.
I enjoy visiting with our partner podcasters. Thanks to our friends there in Indiana, Ryan and Brian from Undertaking the Podcast. Such great content. We had such great conversations.
We certainly hope you guys check it out. Yeah, we hope that we inspired you to register as an organ, eye, and tissue donor. You can do that anytime. Registerme.org.
And remember the best place to find us is at our website, thegiftedlife.org. And if you don't hear us there, you can certainly find us on Apple Podcast, Google Podcasts or whatever. Your favorite podcast app maybe. Find us and like our page on Facebook, The Gifted Life Podcast.
And follow us on both Twitter and Instagram at GiftedLifePod. I do people. I follow it. The content there.
We hope that you will take that step and do that as well. But most of all, we hope that you share this Gifted Life Podcast. Our goal is to spur those healthy conversations about organ tissue and eye donation. You could be the key.
And we hope that you go out and do something you would normally do to help us make life happen. It's that simple and we're a team. We'll talk to you next time. This is a production of LOBA, the Louisiana Organ Procurement Agency.
The Gifted Life is hosted by Lori Steele, Joey Buudro and Sarah Blaymore, our executive producer at Kirsten Hines. Producer Isha Long-Caraway. Intern is Rebecca Raskin. And we are recorded, engineered and mixed in our Covington, Louisiana studio by Troy Perez.