Ouija

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three dark things take power, we like to call it the supernatural hour. Hey, welcome to the Supernatural Hour. I'm Raven, one of your hosts.

I'm Rogue. This is Dark. This is Chad. I'm in it.

It feels like it's been forever. I don't know why. We release one every two weeks. It just feels like it's been forever since we podcasted forever.

Probably altogether in person. Yes. That has been kind of a forever. It's been months.

You know what? The technology the way it is these days when we zoom, you can hear, I mean, you can tell a little bit of a difference, but the sound quality is actually quite good. Yeah. But it's nice having everybody here.

We are all here today. So that's amazing. All right. The business is brought to you today by the Castle Photo Arts Studio and Castle Nature Studio.

Get your photo needs through our castle. Petitny, we've got a public investigation coming up March 19th, it's a Saturday night. We're returning to Petitny School and Museum in Payson, Utah. We were there back in October and had a fantastic event and we had so many people asking about it and wanting to go.

It couldn't go last time. So we're excited to go back to Petitny in March. I'm looking forward to that. I had to miss it in October myself.

I didn't. Yeah. We usually don't hit another venue this close, but I just had people right and left asking when we were going back. So we thought, yeah, we'll do it sooner than later.

It was a lot of fun last time. Very, very active. It was and actually that's the one that I will always remember. The spirit was nice to me and unlocked the door so I could come in because it was cold and I wasn't happy about it.

They unlocked the door for me. I don't know if the door was unlocked for anyone else throughout the night, but I really appreciated that. So that will go down as the kind ghost spot, I guess. I don't know.

I will take a good ghost. The way I think about it. I guess we had some residential down in Utah County where Petitny is and I was not able to go, unfortunately. I did.

Yeah, you did. I was there too. Nice. So the first house was in the Payson area and it's a home we've actually been to about a year ago.

Yeah. Anyway, since then the homeowner, there's been a breakup and just some activity. I don't know if she said anything happened per se. Oh, no, no, no, they did.

Sorry, just kind of a dark feeling in the house and they would hear things, and cupboards like things fell, but when they would go to put the thing back, everything would be in place. Did they say anything else? Those are mostly the things. The dark feeling that things were just unsettled.

Yeah, so we did an investigation and in the master bedroom, there was ceiling lamp, not a ceiling lamp. Fan. ceiling fan. Something.

Something that's fun. Something that's fun. It's been a long day. And so Heather was able to come with this on that one.

And we were, you know, we had all of our stuff out on the bed. You're asking questions, doing an EVP session, you know, waiting for it to come and turn on the K2 meter. And we were looking at the ceiling fan and it had, you know, they have two poles, one for the light, one for the fan. And one of them just started swinging.

And the other one wasn't. And Heather said, yeah, I may have bumped that. And so we made them both still again and tried to get it to recreate it. And I think it did just a little bit, not as heavy as it was before, but it was definitely playing with those holes.

With those holes. Or the one chain. But the answers that we were getting, you know, we went into two different rooms because there was two places that we were having activity and just not getting consistent answers. And one thing that we've noticed is you're either going to get consistent answers.

You're going to get nothing if you get a type three, nor the dark entity. If you've never listened to us before, a type three is basically a demonic entity. And you know, they'll tell you lies and then you know, a few little discrepancies you'll call them out on. But this one, it was just, there was no rhyming or reason.

But intelligent. It wasn't just equipment malfunction. And it took us a while, but we thought, you know what, maybe this is an elemental. Because it kind of, we don't deal with the elements often and sometimes it takes me a minute to remember that, oh, this is very elemental-like.

I think you don't like to interact with people either unless you really defile the land or something. Right. You know, usually the few that we've run into that have talked to us have been kind of playful, you know, kind of teasing. But they're not lying to you, but they don't necessarily want to be straight up with you.

They kind of, it's almost like an unruly child. You know. Very mischievous in many places like that one in Magna. Mm-hmm.

And when we figured out that, you know, we kind of thought that what we thought that that's what it might be. And so then we asked Charles, because we don't jump right to Charles, we like to try to, you know, figure out stuff. And for those new listeners, it was Charles. A spirit guide through the Dowsing Rones.

So, you know, after kind of a, a little bit of a frustrating evening because we're just not getting, you know, consistent answers. Because you know, they'd say yes, and then we'd confirm and know, and then, you know, and then we're like, we're not getting consistent answers. Yeah, I mean, just back and forth, we finally asked Charles and goes, yeah, it's an elemental. And so we asked the homeowner.

The type of elemental. It was a... So they're... And most of the ones we run into are air.

And we'll talk about elementals. It almost made the cut for our spring podcast schedule, but not quite, maybe fall. Anyway, most of the ones we run into are air. And so to take care of those, you set out little cups of vinegar with black pepper.

And that's funny because the homeowner, she said, you know what, I was only going to buy one vinegar, but I had the feeling to buy two. And her house is neat as a pin. Neat. Immaculate.

As a pin. It looks like you've walked into an RC-Willi showroom in every room. And so I felt all sorts of guilt putting these little red solo cups everywhere, you know, in every room. I feel like I'm deeply in your area.

And it looks like they're just a big part either, too. So... And we kind of think it came in, we think that in the course of the breakup, someone on the other side, you know, they didn't live in her home. The person that she broke up with, we feel like something got sent to her purposely.

So I haven't heard back from her. And you know, sometimes I check on them, sometimes I check in with me. I've just been super busy. And so I have a chance to check in.

But she hasn't checked in and sometimes no news is good news. And we're going to assume that everything is going well. And if there is an issue, she will get back with us. We've been in contact with her a couple of times over the years.

Yeah, I think we've been to her. Different homes of hers, probably. Three times? Three times in the last ten years.

She seems like Payson is just a hot spot in general. You know what it is, when Peeches was with us, we took her to Payson one day and she said it's probably the most haunted place she's ever seen in Utah anyway. She was seeing ghosts everywhere. It's kind of amazing.

So the other investigation was actually just a couple of nights ago. One of our Patreons got a hold of us and said, hey, you know, we've got a friend that's having some issues and so they came out with us. That was fun. You know who you are.

And big shout out. I can't think of their Patreon name. That's not a very good shout out. Just saying.

It's like the gray Jedi or something or other. I can never remember my own children's name. And this patron changes his name. I know what his actual name is.

I just don't want to say it on air in case he doesn't want it to be said on air. I can't remember his fancy Patreon name. And they're out there like every investigation. We love them.

We love you. You know who you are. It's the last time you'll see him. One less patron.

So anyway, so we went out to her home. It also was neat and tidy. She kept it, you know, she kept it, I apologize. Oh, it's such a man.

It was a very nice. But she had just moved into this town home three years ago and just had a real ominous feeling. And she had a couple different mediums come out. All the mediums told her the same thing.

Closed some portals. I don't remember why, but somehow she found out that the person who owned a town home before her had rented it and some Ouija board. Teenagers. Activity had taken place.

And just the heaviness in the home. I don't think she said there was any activity, just very, very heavy. I feel she actually had an otter that moved out because of it and won't be the moment anymore. Yeah, she was like 17 or 18.

And this was literally 150 yards from the Jordan River. So water also complained to this too. And so, you know, in the course of the investigation, we had several of our team members. Several team members were there.

And they, you know, we got some, our Patreon got some activity on the SLS. And it was a little type three that was projecting to be a lot bigger than it was. Everything on the SLS showed him to be very, very small. And most of the stuff in the room that we were in had been moved out because it was the otter that was moved out.

There's a couple blankets in the middle of the floor and some things. But there was nothing that, that this little type three, you know, it's not like, oh, it's trying to make the blankets into a stick figure or it's trying to make. You know, I mean, there's nothing there. So we knew it was a spirit.

And anyway, through the course of asking questions, the portal that the other mediums had come in and closed had opened up again. And the type three was assisting and opening that. So we asked Charles, you know, what's it going to take to close this and keep it closed? And he basically said a lot of salt and a lot of basil.

And then we had one of our investigators with us who does Reiki. And so she put her Reiki energy into it as well. And we think it's, I think it's close, pretty good. So I told the homeowner, I said, you know, I'm pouring copious amounts of salt and basil all over her floor.

I said, you know, you're going to want to keep this here for about a week or two. She's like, I will keep that there forever. Just like, I will never vacuum in that spot ever again. Yeah, she was not happy in the home from the time that they moved in.

It was one of those where she just, you know, you're excited to get a new home and you're excited to do that. But she just, she just, she just didn't feel comfortable in her home. In fact, she explained that like she would run from her bedroom down to the, to the kitchen in the morning. You know, just, she just felt oogie and.

I just never felt like home at all. And yeah, and we could have told that without her telling us because you start to notice things when you go into people's homes and she had crosses and stones everywhere. I mean, there are a lot of people that are into stones and, you know, religious articles. They'll have a few here there, but she had them everywhere.

And I thought, yeah, she's, she's having a rough time. How common is it for a portal to open up again like that? We have it happen every once in a while. I thought it's the ones that we run into maybe 20%.

It's usually type three or something getting involved to do it. Yeah. At least the ones that we do. You know, someone else could be listening to a different experience, but the ones that we run into.

That's what I would say to percentages. Now, is there something about a child spirit? Yeah. So we got rid of the type three.

And when we first walked upstairs, we could feel, we could feel the dark type three in the bedroom. But we could feel something else in the bathroom, but it didn't feel malevolent. It just felt like it was hiding. And so we thought we're going to come back to that.

So we got rid of the type three and then we went back into the bathroom. And it turned out it was a child spirit, a little boy, about nine or ten. And Denise had got those, I don't know what they're called. They look like old cat balls, they're little tiny balls.

The half, the flashing LED lights on them. Like, you know about the size of a little ball you'd give to a cat to play with. Yeah, a ping pong ball, golf ball size. Yeah.

And if you touch them, you know, they glow. Motion sensor, yeah. And these are like red and a lot of motion sensing. You have to touch it.

But, you know, they did kind of a red and blue like a police car. And that little boy loved those. I've got video of him turning those off and on. And he wanted to cross.

So he would hide in the bathroom from the type three because the type three was scary. So we crossed him. There was about three or four other spirits in the home that we didn't talk to. But they wanted to cross.

And when we were done, it was amazing how much brighter it was in the house. Just the lighting in there was. It did seem to have a physical additional luminosity in the house. Yeah.

So they were both really good investigations. All that trouble because a couple of kids played with a board game licensed by Hasbro. Right. Speaking of which, our main topic is Ouija boards.

Oh no. And it was brought to you by Otayos in Lindenita. Amazing. Amazing.

Mexican-ish food. Yeah, it's not your typical Mexican. It's very high-end, very unique, but delicious gourmet. That's a good word.

Mexican food. What do we know about Ouija boards? Don't play with them folks. Apparently there's problems if you do.

Good night. So my plans to redo my living room floor in Hardwood with a big Ouija board pattern on it to make a coffee table as a giant plant chat. That's a bad idea. Yeah.

We went into a client-sonal lot of work. They were so nice. It was right around Halloween time. We went into this investigation and they had a Ouija board.

It wasn't a Ouija board, but it was a decoration. And they're like, oh, that's just for Halloween. And then what about the Ouija board blanket? Then we had a client.

We said no. Does someone in your home play with a Ouija board? Oh no. As we're looking at a 5-by-8 foot Ouija board blanket on the couch, two feet behind her.

I'm like, sure. Yeah. So yeah, Ouija boards. We're just going to start right now with as Wisps and as a advanced paranormal.

We do not condone the use of Ouija boards. You're going to find out why. We do not allow them on our investigations. If a homeowner has them or has used them, we suggest to them that they get rid of them.

We will tell you the proper way to do that. Also, coming up. But just that is our stance. Don't do it, folks.

It's not worth it. You don't know who or what you're dealing with. Having said that, if just on the off-champs that you don't know what a Ouija board is, it's board. That's the name.

You have kind of game board size, more or less. It's got the alphabet on it. It's got numbers. It has yes and no.

And there's a little thing called a plenchet, kind of heart-shaped with a see-through circle in the middle. Circle in the middle so you can see what letter it's over. And the idea is you allow a spirit to use your body to move the plenchet. You can ask questions and you can talk to the beyond.

And it sounds just fabulous. We'll go talk to grandma. See how she's doing in the hereafter. You can order these on Amazon.

They have my little pony. You can pick them up at a toy store. Like I said, Hasbro, who also owns My Little Pony. So it makes perfect sense.

So there's the crossover. Yeah. Someone said, hey, I got my little pony. You got a Ouija board.

Let's do My Little Pony Ouija board. When I was in high school, kids would draw these on the back of their books. And even then, I was like, I don't know that you should do that. Right.

I mean, the Ouija board that everybody knows is the one that's currently licensed and it's sold as a board game. But the history of using a spirit board. It is a game. And talking boards.

All of that goes pretty far back. In fact, in some of what I was reading, it sounds like in ancient China. Well, back in like the 1100s, they were using kind of a similar method to try to communicate with spirits. And it was eventually banned by the Qing Dynasty there.

It was kind of the first use of boards to try to communicate with the dead. And then it looks like in the 1800s is where, you know, there's that big movement of spiritualism. Yeah, spiritualism is where people started using talking boards. But it wasn't until about 1890 that the classic Ouija board was patented.

So one of the things I thought was interesting was, you know, the name Ouija. And in one place I read it says that the name comes from a French and German word for yes, which is we and yah. But that's how you would say it in German. But you pronounce it with a hard jah.

So we jah. But a lot of people say that that is not where it came from. That the Ouija board named itself. Yeah, and I think that's a much funner answer.

Kind of creepy. You had French and German. Yeah, whatever. Rather, you know, the word name itself makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't remember if I heard this on a video I was watching or if one of you guys told me when we were getting set up. But that the Ouija board when they asked where that name came from, it said, good luck. Yeah, something I read said it was somebody claimed it was Egyptian for good luck, which I'm sure would be easy to verify, but did not do that.

So it's saying I was thinking what kind of good luck is it like good luck or does it mean like good luck or does it mean like good luck? Or is it like good luck? Yeah, good luck. One of the sinister good luck.

I don't want to find out. And on some Ouija boards, good luck is one of the words that's on some of the words with the yes and the no and good luck is oftentimes. Goodbye. The pre-pre-prated answers.

It's like the emojis of 1800. There you go. Oh, just a punch. Hey, it's the goodbye emoji.

Well, and the interesting thing is I thought that the Ouija board game as a marketer board game came out in the 80s, but it came out in 1966. My parents brought one home in the 60s. I'd rather that it was trademarked or licensed as a pattentive as a parlor game in the 1890s. Yeah.

Oh, wow. So we're back. Yeah, and then that was bought by Parker Brothers and then Hasbro got it from there. There's quite a quite a tail on.

And then they were like, you know who would love this thing? Children. Children would love this. Well, I've heard my ABCs on Ouija boards.

That's what's wrong with you. I use a little plant jet to point to each other. We never had the plant jet that I remember. Yes, for demon.

Why do they come up with like a battery version now? You know, I bet you know, I bet you know, to find out. She's got to be an electric. Yeah, first.

Exactly. You're like trying to Ouija board app. I'm sure there is. There's an app right now.

I'm going to go for that. I'm going to Google Play. Okay, here we go. So while he's Google playing, one of the things I found interesting is again, I thought this was what I knew that they had been around for a while, but I was thinking, you know, the whole 19th century spiritual revolution sort of a deal.

But, you know, we talked about them being in China, but they were also very popular in, and while the very popular and widely used in ancient India, Greece, Rome and even medieval Europe and in Greece, it was a time of Pythagoras. So let me look at my notes because I don't have the year of Pythagoras, like memorized. F.Y.I. There's like a ton of Ouija board apps.

Really? Yeah. Don't go get one. And then randomly spirit airlines in there.

I don't know. Sorry, spirit airlines. It's not a bad only for that. Probably the spirit thing is what came up with the Ouija board and I was like, yeah, there's a bunch of them and the spirit airlines app.

So anyway, it's not a paid promotional. At least don't sue us. So Pythagoras was 540 BC and they would do divination done with the table that moved kind of like the reverse Ouija board, but it was a table and the table would move on these wheels and would point to science and which were interpreted as revelations from an unseen world. And this table actually was used to clear up through the 19th century in different places.

So you didn't move the plant yet? You moved the table. Yeah, the table just moved. So my coffee table idea was right on.

Yeah, I was like, and it's got the whole floor thing with the moving coffee table. It makes sense. And so the whole idea of a smaller thing using a plant jet didn't really come around until 1953 in Europe. They're just kind of like, you know what, this whole table thing takes up a lot of room.

And the first plant jet actually had legs on it and moved around like a little mini table. Kind of like they said, you know what, let's make a little room with a little table on top of it. So you know, there were thinkers, innovators. They were.

So I've used Ouija board, have you? I have not. Okay. It's not I'd ask.

As a child with my sisters, but they're always trying to spell weird things with it and not really taking it seriously. So, no, my dad was a policeman. We couldn't do anything that was scary or creepy. Well, as I told you.

Except for watch those movies. Okay. Yeah. So our family home evening, my dad would bring home training videos.

And so we would sit there and we'd watch this movie and then, you know, a car. And then he'd go up to the TV and he'd point, he'd say, that's Gray Street. We're like, yeah, that's brains. Don't drink and drive kids.

Okay. So this public service announcement brought you by. I am so sorry for your childhood. I never drank and drove.

Sure. And then there was the the visit. So at the time, the police department had, you know, kind of like maybe the one, the one whole holding cell that they put you in, do their cool offer. Like they take you to the jail and open in the morning.

I'm old. So when we were little, my dad would take us on a field trip there. And there's a cell on the toilet with no wall around it. And he's like, yeah, if you're bad, you're gonna end up here and I'm like, yeah, I'm out.

She is never going to be the crime. She has to pee and help us. Scared straight. Yep.

Yeah. So yeah, so if I answer your questions, I never put it in the picture. But I did watch kids at school, drawing on their own books. Well, I don't know that I aint one, but a friend brought one over to the house that I lived in as a kid that I've talked about and was a haunted house already.

So we already knew we had spirit. We wanted to talk to spirit. But when we realized that the spirit we were talking to wasn't the same spirit that we were trying to talk to, then we said goodbye because there's that little goodbye on there. And I asked him to take it, but I have played with one.

It's like it's confession. I was like, therein lies the trouble with Ouija. Well, and that was just really kind of segues into the next little section is that the idea of a Ouija board is that you're talking to a spirit and that your hands are being guided by benevolent, wonder good spirits. And it's just a medium between you and the spirit world.

And it's not. You don't know who you're inviting in. You don't know who is actually controlling that. There are some Ouija board enthusiasts that say that the board itself should never be destroyed and never be burned.

We'll kind of get into that a little bit later. However, we're going to get into kind of a little bit of a religious vein for just a minute. The Bible tells us to destroy and burn all occult material. And if you're interested in that, it's Acts 19, 18 through 19.

But after you contact a willing spirit, players might like contact with the planchett and allow it to move across the Ouija board. It sounds like I'm teaching you how to do this. I'm just explaining it. Don't try this at home.

And then you can ask simply us no questions or using letters and numbers. Get answers to your questions. The problem is, and we tell you this on a ghost hunt too. If you're talking to a little cute little Sally Sue, the four-year-old ghost in the corner whose mom was something to wear and she drowned us, do not to bring her home with you because demonic entities do not tell you the truth.

I don't get why people would even do that. Oh, because they've got such soft hearts and they're talking about something. And they're total idiots. Yes.

How do you really feel that right? People call them uninformed. Curious. Well intentioned, but not very bright.

Right. Well, thank you. I'll take that as I was very bright. Oh, I was.

I really kind of felt like I was curious. No, and again, just uneducated. And in that, not uneducated in general, but uneducated in spirits. I can't say that there would have been a time in my life.

I may not have done the same thing. And the problem is, you know, these type of dark spirits need an invitation. They can't just come and possess you. You need to invite them in.

And there's many, many ways you can invite them in. A Ouija board is one of them, which is one reason why we do not let them on our investigations. We want to investigate what is already out of sight. We know we can invite something in if we wanted to and we don't because honestly, grandma is too busy doing other stuff to come hang out with you at your ghost hunt.

In most cases. I was going to say maybe. In most cases. If she hasn't crossed over and then she's got some unfinished business, that's different.

But I'm just saying good spirits usually aren't going to come through a Ouija board. And there's also that idea of what the conduit is, right? Because you use dowsing rods and we use K2 meters and those kinds of things to try to communicate with spirits. Exactly.

How is a Ouija board different? Yeah. The big difference is when you're using a Ouija board, you are the conduit. You are the thing the spirit is acting on to move the board where with dowsing rods or with the K2 meters, you're asking the spirit to respond directly to the device, right?

So that, you know, some people say that that is one way you can invite is to ask it to make sounds. And that's what we do. We go on investigation and say, can you make a sound? In my opinion, and I could be wrong, but in my opinion, if we are invited to someone's home where we're investigating a public area, you know, we know or hope that there's things there.

And so we will usually phrase it with, if there's a spirit here, you know, can you come and touch this? Rather than, hey, Ouija board, let's just open it up to whatever. Well, we also take steps to protect ourselves too, that the average person probably isn't going to. Right.

And this is why we tell people don't investigate your own homes, you know, because most people will just open it up. Hey, is there anything here? There's an invitation, whereas, you know, if we say, you know, if there's something in this room, you know, something that's already there. So there's some very, in my opinion, differences.

Right. Well, like I said, with the K2 meter, for example, you're saying, hey, can you make this light turn on? Can you do this? But you're not asking it to actually, you, that's where you, that's where I think there's that risk for possession or the risk for problems is you become the conduit.

It's not that you have a device that's being used. You are inviting it into you, which is just the next level. It's like, not only are we inviting you into our space, but we're inviting you into our space, we're inviting you inside of us, which is always dangerous. So if it's inside you and not only can it use your, if you've given it that invitation, use your physical, you know, your muscles and stuff to move that planchet.

It also will get it, excuse me. It will also give you access, give it access to your thoughts in your mind. Make a connection or emotions. And I don't, you know, there's some people say they know your thoughts, some people say they don't.

I don't know really where I'm at there. But even if it's just, can cloud your thoughts or block your thoughts to where you're no longer in full control of yourself, that's not good. Right. You give up a degree of agency.

It was really, I think, one of the scary aspects of using Ouija boards. I just think it's interesting. I copied and pasted a few things. I'm just going to read this because it's just, I can't do it just by myself.

It says, when Ouija board legend warns against playing the game alone, well, another suggests that the spirits must be approached in a specific way to avoid encountering evil imposters. Don't believe any of these legends that may encourage you to play the Ouija board, never touch the Ouija board by your own or with others. Whether they be called harmless or malevolent, Ouija board is a portal inviting demons into your home, body and soul. And I could see just a small percentage of the public going, oh, that would be so cool.

It's not, it is not cool in any way, shape or form. So don't do it. So I've got a couple of different stories of people that you've heard of that actually are anti Ouija boards. So thank you folks.

Edgar Case called them dangerous. He wanted evil demons, pretend to be cooperative ghosts in order to trick users into becoming spiritually possessed and wasn't Edgar Case FBI back in the- That was a Hoover, Jadar Hoover. I'm not sure. I think I was Edgar Case.

I thought he was a psychic. Hang on, we will find out who, I think Case is. I might be confusing my- We're an author. My Eggers.

My Eggers. I have no guess. I'm feeling really left out here. You're going to wear an Eggers suit.

And Eggers suit. Do you guys want to move that from? Name that. Yeah.

So I believe it's Edgar Case is I say his last name. Yes. It's an American clairvoyant to claim to channel from his higher self while asleep in a translate state. Yeah.

So he says they're bad. And then Eggers suit that comes from a black and silver and a favorite line. Okay. So I'm going to go with Ouija boards.

But does. I should say Harry Potter. There we go. The reference.

There we go. The reference. But it's in. So some people a little closer to home than I actually know who they are.

John Zafis, Ed and Lorraine Warren, he's there. He is John's aunt and uncle. They testify that the majority of the worst demonic harassment and possessions that they have dealt with and that they have heard of have been caused by the use of Ouija boards. Ed and Lorraine Warren actually stated Ouija boards are just as dangerous as drugs.

They further state that seances and Ouija boards and other occult paraphernalia are dangerous because evil spirits often disguise themselves as your loved ones and take over your life. So you see in a common thread here, demons, disguise. A lot of deception. And deception and kind of neat to get in.

Kind of the antebelled all kind of thing too. It's like, oh, so cute. And then it's an eagle demon. Yep.

And then it starts out planning to. And then you're calling Ed and Lorraine Warren and they're making movies about your house being around. Well, you know, you see video footage on TV of people playing with Ouija boards and getting possessed. I mean, instantly, in some cases.

But I've never seen a guy with an SLS camera suddenly get possessed, you know, or a millimeter. So right. That's your point. You're not the conduit.

You're not what the spirit's working through. You're, you know, you're catching something on a device. You're not what you're inviting the spirit. I'm just a machino operator.

Exactly. Well, in these movies, like, you know, Ed and Lorraine Warren, the Conjuring movies and stuff, you know, you see they're all happy and then the demon comes in and everything goes to pot and three or four days later, happily ever after. And that's, you know, not how it really is a lot of these actual cases, you know, because you can't sit and watch movie for 20 years, you know, happen over years and years and years and years before they finally found someone that could come in and actually take care of it. And you know, over the course of those years, they've had divorces and deaths and, you know, mental illnesses and, you know, just all, you know, a myriad of just horrible things and you don't want to invite that into your life if you don't need it.

I don't need it. I don't need it. Okay. So there was an occultist top-breaking Freemason by the name of Manly P.

Hall. He was the founder of a society called the Philosophical Research Society in 1944. And he was an authority on the cult. I've actually read a lot of Manly P.

Hall stuff. Have you? Yes. Awesome.

And that's one symbology that can symbolize on those kind of topics. So yeah, a very interesting fellow. Cool. He actually had an article about him in the Horizon magazine and again, I'll just read what it says.

It says, during the last 20 to 25 years, I've had considerable personal experience with persons who have complicated their lives through dabbling with the Ouija board. Out of every hundred such cases, at least 95 are worse off for the experience. He says, I know I've broken homes, strange families and even suicides that can be traced directly to the source. I mean, we can talk for hours on bad stories.

There's a New Jersey doctor Curry, says it was a dangerous factor. In 1965, there's a pair of psychologists, Martin Eben. He has a book called The St. in Trap, Dangerous of the Occult.

He talks about how it starts out all happy and fun. And then it turns really ugly. Psychic Susie Smith in 1971 says, To warn people from Ouija and automatic writing. Avadican Roman priest, Malachi Martin, talks about how they're bad and we can go on for days of people that warn against it.

And we were watching a YouTube video just today to keep things fresh in our mind for when we recorded tonight. And this one fellow, really quite interesting, we're going to have Chad talk about some of the things that he mentioned. But he said, I've played with the Ouija board a lot. And he said, most of the time, really bad stuff happens.

And then he goes, sometimes it's good. But then even go, was that just that particular bad hadn't come through yet. So Chad, you found some fun stuff. I found an article on a YouTube video, which was really interesting.

14 rules for using Ouija board. But we're going to start with rule one. Use a Ouija board. Good rule.

That being said. But if you do, but if you do, here's some things that this author recommended. Let's say this way, if you were to, but don't. Rule number one, never play with a Ouija board alone.

All right, rule number two, do not play with a Ouija board when depressed. Rule number three, if you do let a demon in, get the house blessed. But if you go back to rule number one, you don't need to worry about rule number three. Four, take it very seriously.

All right, rule number five, don't let the spirits count down through the letters and numbers. It is a bad omen and they can come into our world this way. Rule number six, if the planchette goes to all four corners of the board, it implies that you have reached an evil spirit trying to get out. Number seven, do not let the planchette figure eight as this is considered a bad omen and evil spirit is trying to get out.

Oh, can you imagine trying to get out? Huh, interesting. Rule number eight, you must close the portal each and every time you play or the demons or spirits will linger and let themselves into your life. Now keep in mind, this is the guy that I was just mentioning played with it all the time.

And he says most of his experiences were bad, so I would believe these. I'm sorry. So these 14 rules come from this guy. Oh, which one did you read last?

Eight. Nine, do not become addicted to the Ouija board. That seems to be a common thread with dark entities too. And I understand it's fairly easy to do from what I've listened to on a number of the different things that people, you know, it's almost like instant messaging and doing the other things with electronics that you can get so into it that you have a hard time separating it from the real.

There's the phone. Yeah, that's right. All right. So I'm going to trust any spirit.

The evil ones will lie to make it look like they are not malevolent. Oh, hey, interesting. Never heard that before. Don't.

Yeah, I was going to say I think we say something like that on our investigations. Yeah. Number 11, do not burn a Ouija board. It is said it will scream and those who hear it have less than 36 hours to live.

Oh, well, now I don't know how true that is. And the guy said he didn't know this one for sure. I don't want to test it. Just a guy, right?

But so so we're going to give you some information here a minute on how you read it. Take it to the salt box. All right. So we can go to the chip.

Oh, let's see. We're on number 12, right? Dispose of the Ouija board by breaking it into seven pieces, put holy water on it and bury it. There you go.

So we are going to. In the salt box. I would be very interested to know how much God is buried in salt box by people like us. Exactly.

It's a paranormal hot spot out there. Oh, great. I get number 13. Never ask the Ouija board about God or when you will die.

The evil spirits will become angry when asked about God. And last but not least, light a white candle while using a Ouija board and be respectful of the spirit you contact. And since that's the last one, I'm just going to say that two through 14, if you adhere to rule number one and never play with a Ouija board, you want me to worry about two through 14. I was going to say rule number 15.

Please see rule number one. Exactly. Exactly. So I want to tell you a story.

I want to tell you just a story. This is a true story about a Ouija board that summoned a demon. So this particular story was in December of 1986. There was a Ouija board.

It became a passport to hell for a family. They decided to get together and play their Ouija board game. And they summoned a demon into their home. The father, his name was John Ravens, he said it was just so intense and everything that happened.

He says I'm pretty sure I basically summoned the actual devil into my home. He said by the time that everything was over, they were all bleeding and had severe burn marks and their living room was a disaster area. They said, the mom said it was supposed to be a joke. They had this game.

They thought it was just all fun and game. It's a board game. It's not real. It's a board game.

And they were going to make believe that they were talking to the spirit world because they didn't believe in it. And so there's mom, there's dad, there's Linda, her nine year old brother Ronald. It doesn't say how old Linda was, but probably a few years within nine. And the parents, so two mom and dad, two kids gathered around the board for what they thought was going to be an evening of family fun.

They're in Toronto, Canada. Just down the suburbs. They were playing around with it when suddenly the plan check spelled out answers and began to go by itself. And the dad said, we were scared, but we thought that maybe one of the kids was somehow playing a trick because I still, you know, are in the mindset of it's just a game.

It's not real. And so they started asking questions and the spirit began to talk to them. Then it said, can we visit with you? And he said, the dad said, by this time I was pretty sure that, you know, it was a joke and I'm like, yeah, sure, come on and visit.

It's like, boom. I mean, that was a pretty blatant invitation to me, which says the spirit knew that this family had no clue. And he was like, I don't even have to disguise it. I can just say, hey, can I come in?

And they said, yeah. And the dad said, that's when the nightmare began. He says, the demon appeared within seconds. He said, it spun around the room overhead.

It was laughing and cursing at them so they could actually see it. He said, it was surrounded by a ring of fire. And he said, the room became so hot, it literally felt like we were in hell. The family describes the demon as red and black with scaly skin and horns and a head giant bat wings.

He said, it swooped and attacked them. He says, the features just reminded you of horror. It's the only way he could really describe it. It was biting them on their face and their arms.

He says, we tried to get up and run for the door, but every time we did, the creature would start to cloth. He says, it was so fast. We didn't know where it was going to be. We could not.

It just held us there around the table. It was so fast. The two children were repeatedly picked up and thrown across the room. And then, if you get thrown across the room and you're little, you're just kind of laying there, you know, kind of dazed.

And the creature would pound on their chest and heads. The dad said it had hooves that dug into my children's faces and skin, marking them badly. They said that the attack lasted for more than an hour before the demon vanished. The children by that time were screaming and crying, which I think I would be, as an adult.

And the parents, the whole family went to a nearby hospital where they were treated for cuts and birds. And so, I mean, you can actually look this up. There's... Documentary evidence?

Documentary, documented evidence. All from the Ouija board. And it wasn't just, oh, creepy, you know, it feels creepy or I can see shadows. I mean, this one physically attacked them and physically beat them up.

So, we don't want to end on that note. I've got a little bit. Okay. One of the names that comes up oftentimes with Ouija boards is Zuzu.

Zuzu, Zuzu. Not Zuzu. Zuzu was the petals, right? No, it's Puzuzu.

Puzu. That's another one. They actually touched my chest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zuzu's petals, yeah. I just kind of think maybe you should see Zuzu's petals together. That's just bad. Zuzu.

So, the Zuzu demon. There's thousand internet message words that talk about the Zuzu demon. And they come through on Ouija boards. The name Zuzu comes through a lot of times on Ouija boards, automatic writing for other methods of divination.