Paranormal Peeves

In the dead of night as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three dark things take power, we like to call it the Supernatural Hour. Hey, welcome to the Supernatural Hour Podcast. This is one of your hosts, Raven.

This is Chad. This is Drake. And this is Castle. You remember from famous episodes such as the Last Order we recorded?

Wow, little famous one. That was like a stroke there. You remember me from a high smell bird toast? Help?

Sing the birthday song. Birthday song. Oh, we have got a really, really cool investigation to talk about. But as you know, that's going to come later.

So I'm excited to talk about that one. I'm also excited for spooky season, but Castle, you went on a fun trip. I did go on a fun trip. I went to Yellowstone to pictures of Elk.

And I saw Tom Ingleson, who is one of my artists that I was sort of looking for. Vanboy over? Yeah, fanboy. I'll go with fanboy.

I was like, well, I'm a wildlife photographer. But I got to meet Tom Ingleson. And he looked at one of my pictures I took this last weekend. I played with grizzly bears.

I was dangerous. Close to grizzly bears. Close to the park, radar shot. One in the rear end with a bean bag round.

So it was fun. It wasn't spooky. Having a bear approach you from the side of the road is a little spooky. But it was a fun trip, nonetheless.

And you were taking pictures for Castle Photoart? For Castle Photoart and CastleNatureArt.com. And if anybody's looking for a photographer, I'm not to too loud horn, but I'm pretty good. And I'm really surprised.

I think they're one of our sponsors, right? I think they are. Anyway, if you're looking for photos, give me a call. Not only do I photograph people, and I'll make you look like a rock star.

I actually need to picture my old WISPS photo shoot picture. It's a couple years old. I could... Yeah, my other website is only like 10 years old.

You're the photographer. You need to picture it. I'm always young and handsome. I'm more...

All right. So we just want to give a shout out to our Patreons. Chad, do you want to name them one by one? Give me a minute for that and I can do that.

So he's gonna... I want to make sure that I... Make sure we don't miss any. But while he's looking that up, we do have a new Patreon.

I'm taking advantage of our Patreon Perk special box with just tons of goodies in it. And that is the coolness. So thank you the coolness. We're super excited to have you join our team.

Coolness is a super insider. Of insiders. And you just get all sorts of perks and fun stuff. And I'm not gonna take the time to name them all because we want to get into our topic here in a minute.

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There's an active calendar. So if you want to see what we are up to, if you want to come join us at some events, they can stop on the calendar and say, oh look, there's an event next weekend. And we'll keep that calendar up to date. And so you can always just go look at the calendar and see where we might be and you come to rass us.

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Jason is a postal insider. He gets all the cool swag that we send out quarterly. We got Marissa B, Vanessa, Eric, Bree, of course, our advanced paranormal account, the fosters who've been with us for a long time, and Nicole and Stacey. So we're really excited about having all of them as our patrons.

We appreciate their support. They help us with a lot of the things we're doing with the updates to the web pages that Kessel's working on, with the tools that we're using for that, the Descript that we use for our podcast, a lot of the other things, SSL certificates, all that kind of stuff. So thank you very much. We really appreciate the patrons.

And if that's not enough to rev you guys to the new website, then we're going to put Chads only fan page link there that'll help draw traffic in. So the next thing, and there should still be enough time by the time you get this, our deadline is September 17th to name our Reaper logo mascot, dude. We're going to have everybody submit names. We've posted this on Facebook.

We've posted this on TikTok and Instagram. And on the messages that we sent out to everybody that's already been in apps, ticket holders, we sent it out to, you got our new quarterly paranormal quarterly newsletter. If you want the quarterly newsletter and you want to have a little bit of just the podcast, just go to Wisps.org or advanced paranormal.com and shoot us your email. We'll add you to the email list and you can get all this information other places besides podcast and you'll get the newsletter.

And Patrons get a cooler newsletter. You guys get a cool newsletter, but Patrons get a little more goodies in their newsletter. But we're going to name it. Yes, so we want to name our Reaper dude, send it a name.

Deadline is the 17th on the 18th. We will as a group decide which one we like the best. And then we will announce that live from the wild thistle, which used to be the family tree. And so everyone will know what our re-personing is.

We're just waiting for Reaper McGree face. You weren't supposed to tell. Shh. Okay.

We have got some good names. There have been some good entries. It's going to be hard to pick. We have gotten so many names.

It's been amazing. You guys have already just gone above and beyond. Very creative. Spokey season is coming up.

We have a ton of stuff like Castle said hop over to the events page. On the events paranormal, we have the apps and the wisps events on our wisps page. There's just the free events. I'm just FYI.

And also since it's spooky season, as you know, if you've listened to us for any time at all, we really try to make October a little podcast is spooky themed, right? But in October, we like to make it a certain kind of Halloween-y kind of theme. And this Halloween, this October, our podcast theme are things that happened on October 31st, spooky things. So look forward to that.

We've got three podcasts in October. They are all topics of things that happened on October 31st. So we are super excited to get into that. All right.

Did I forget anything guys? One thing's up. Okay. All right.

Let's just jump into our topic. And our topic is paranormal pet peeves. Ooh, can this be a three hour show? Can this be a three hour show?

I know. It's going to be a lot longer if we got to see all of our pet peeves. Oh, right. So anyway, we're going to jump right in.

So this is sponsored by Otale. If you haven't eaten there, you have to go. It's so good. It's one of my favorite restaurants.

Oh my gosh. I love it. They're amazing. Right.

It's not what you normally expect from Mexican food. It's almost kind of like when you go to get Chinese food in different regions, it's almost like a different region of Mexico that you don't normally get food from. But it's like food made out of like unicorn meat or something. I don't know.

It's amazing. It's not high class Taco Bell. Right. No, it's like she's like chef Mexican food.

Yes. Gourmet. Gourmet. And it's going to come out and you're going to think, oh, this isn't very much.

I'm going to have to stop at McDonald's on the way home. No, no, you will get full. All right. So a paranormal pet peeves.

You like anything. There's pet peeves and everything. You know, you're hunting ghosts. Oddly enough, there are pet peeves.

Like anything, you know, we need to show respect patients as a group. We want to be credible. You know, there's some groups out there that might not be important, but to us it is. And as you're going through this, sometimes habits and behaviors can make, you know, seasoned investigators just roll their eyes and want to punch a kitten.

So tonight we're going to vent a little bit and we're going to talk about our paranormal pet peeves. Some are funny, some are frustrating, and some can just be really damaging to the field in general. So let's talk about some of the things that keep us up at night, not the ghosts per se, but maybe some of the ghost hunters. So I'll start.

One of my pet peeves, and you see this a lot on TV, I think, is over-gromatization for the camera. So what this is, is every creek is a dark presence or every orb is a spirit. And a lot of times it seems like some people, investigators, sometimes clients, are just more interested in the dramatic reaction than maybe genuine evidence. For me, it's a pet peeve because it makes all investigators all paranormal look like just a circus act and undermines any real research that we might be doing.

What are your thoughts on that? It's interesting because I've been on so many investigations, I think one in particular was the Opera Way Theater, and I had a meeting with us and we're sitting in the seats up higher and I leaned over the meeting and I said, hey, is there anything here around us? And she's like, no, there's not a, you know, there's stuff down on the stage, but up here we're at, you know, up in the balcony, there's literally nothing up here. And like two seats behind us, there's like three ladies who come on this investigation.

Like, oh gosh, did you feel that? I got touched. Oh gosh, oh gosh. They're just like freaking out that just every little wisp, every touch, every what's a ghost.

And I'm just like, you know, I don't feel anything up here. I have a medium appearance, there's nothing up here. You guys are just, you're just feeding off each other and you're just, you're inventing at granted the bot tickets. I'm sure they had a great time, but they were literally just feeding off each other.

And I don't know, I think it harms the whole investigative field in general when people are not objective and just every whisper, every creak, every insect flying across the camera is paranormal and it's just, and it's full freak out. Oh, absolutely. Like we said, it undermines real research. When I tell people that I can't ghost, I always say I'm a ghost hunter.

They sing the ghost master's theme to you, which is actually fun. But most people even think you are one of the coolest things ever. Or they should be crazy. Exactly.

And some of this is what makes people think that we're actually crazy. So let's discuss something for a second on this. Thinking about the overdramatization. How do you think, what do you guys think on balancing excitement for the audience per se and by audience, you don't have a TV show.

Maybe as we're explaining our investigation to people in the podcast or in person or one or a public event, we've got people there without sensationalizing. I think it's important to, especially on a public event, people are there because they're interested and if we're being honest, part of it is entertainment. And I don't say that in a sense. In a rather scary way.

I'm not saying that we're providing, you know, ooh, did you hear that? Creek gets a ghost. We're not like doing that kind of entertainment. It's a legitimate ghost hunt.

But there is a level of entertainment. They're there to see something, they're there to experience something. And so I do think it's important that you point out those things that, you know, I feel like someone's touching my arm. Did you hear those footsteps?

Let's debunk it. And I think when you approach it that way, did you hear that noise? Let's debunk it. Let me create that excitement without the, oh, did you hear that?

Creek gets a ghost. I think you do it by drawing attention to the activity and looking into the activity in an incredible way. Is it real? Is it not real?

Let's dive into it and see. And that's where the excitement lies. I remember when I first got into investigating. To me, that was exciting.

We heard a creek. Let's look into it. This is exciting. Oh, well, this wind blows us.

Okay, well, we debunked that. That doesn't mean the next thing's not going to be real. So I think it's just the way you approach it. And again, with the pet peeve, I think when every creek is a ghost at a certain point, it just becomes almost ridiculous and just totally destroys the credibility of what it is that we do and what the investigation entails.

I think it takes the excitement out of it. It's over use of a word. And I don't want to bring politics into this in any way, shape or form, but you hear the same word used over and over and over and over and over. And the news and suddenly the meaning of it almost doesn't mean anything anymore.

And there's so many I can pick from right now, but I want to say racist. It's kind of the point where racist almost doesn't mean anything anymore because everything is right. I've heard that math is racist and syrup is racist. And bring that back into paranormal when everything is a spirit, everything is a ghost.

It's almost like you said it takes excitement out of it. And taking it into just writing papers, if you bold everything, then nothing is emphasized. It's true. Exactly.

All right, we want to go on to the next one. We have anything else we want to say about this particular pet peeve? Yes, if you do this, knock it off. Just lick your hand and just slap your own face.

Just do it right now. I don't actually point to everything. And Raven, in our types of people slide into your presentation, these would be the people that jump into everything, that everything is a ghost. Which one is that?

That's the open-minded believers. We love you. You're very enthusiastic. But take a big deep breath and let's be realistic.

Kind of back. Just as an end. Kind of back. And that doesn't mean that it's not happening.

But one of the examples that we bring up quite a bit is pretty much every morning I can guarantee we're going to get some creaking and prickling and things on the side of our house. That's Chats Knees. Yeah, that's earlier morning. But it's when the sun comes up on our aluminum side, you hear the crackle of the creak, the expansion.

And if you're looking for a paranormal and expecting it to be paranormal, you might think that's paranormal. That's called physics. And in all honesty, when we do a public investigation, we have a lot of people that have never investigated before. And so we always tell people, when you watch a half hour ghost showing TV, that's hours and hours and hours and hours of investigating where a lot of nothing happens.

It's like these. Two or three nights of investigating. Absolutely. This boiled down to 30 minute episode.

Twenty minutes to get commercials. And we say, it's like fishing. We could go, I've mentioned this very recently on the spotcast. I've been to the wild thistle slash family tree where Chad and I left early because there's nothing going on.

It's like it's dead, literally. No activity. And then there's been times where we've run out of the building screaming. Our clients have, I didn't, but running out of the building screaming because there's something that happened.

So we just a lot of people crying wolf and screaming all the time because then all of her dramatization. All right, Drake. Actually, one of my personal pet peeves, which is talking over spirits and that's the only thing that you get started is I talk over you. That's where investigators just question after question after question without waiting for a response and the pet peeve because it's spirits don't work on our schedule.

Sometimes they just don't want to talk to us, but they're not going to want to just talk to us like question, question, question. Do you have to also think they were alive? You got to respect them too. Do you want someone coming into your space and asking you a million questions without having time to answer?

Along with that too is if you're trying to record EVPs, it is impossible to record an EVP if you're like, what's your name and in between what's your name? It's like, what kind of piece of equipment is that? How much do you pay for that? Where'd you get that?

And you're having a conversation. It's like one of the biggest pet peeves along with this one that you have Drake. And I think it's the same pet peeve is when you get chattie-cathies on investigations where they're more interested in sharing stories and swap with grandma's recipes and talking about their bunions and all kinds of other things instead of investigating. And you just kind of like, shut up.

We're here to investigate if you want to go swap grandma's recipes. Go to the front of the vent you weren't always at and chat all you want. And I bring that down to everybody. On a public event, if as an investigator I'm leading a group, when I do an EVP session, we just need to say, hey, we're all going to sit down.

On a circle, we're going to do an EVP session. Let's ask a question. I need everyone to be quiet. I think for that, on our public investigations and even under residential setting the stage, we're going to do an EVP session.

We need everyone to be quiet so that we can hear. And sometimes we pick up, yeah, one of my favorite EVPs is when we use a presentation. It's one that a castle in the night. It was an autistic boy in Sandy.

And it's a growly voice, probably a type three that says, we'll want to leave here. Oh, yeah, Liberty. Yeah, Liberty. And it just, you guys were just talking, you had to record on, not necessarily doing an EVP session.

And that's okay. If the recorder's on and you've either forgotten it's on or you're doing some logistics. Because I believe in that when you're saying, hey, we don't want to go down this area and do this thing occasionally. But if you're sitting down doing an actual EVP session, yeah, you got to be quiet.

Well, and even just, I don't want anyone to not have fun at investigation. You can certainly talk, it's your story, it's your story, it's your talk about equipment. But some people are natural talkers and some are not so much. But there's some people who bluster hearts, we love you, but they just catch up, they just can't not talk.

And I would highly recommend everybody who goes on investigation, just pay attention to yourself, have a little bit of self-aware to us and determine if you're one of those. And if you are, just dial it back a little bit. Hey, I will. Okay, Mr.

Spock, but if you don't know what I'm talking about, you got to listen to the last radio run and show. But yeah, just dial it back because there's, I'm not going to name names, but there's a few individuals we're with past to investigator with who they're amazing people. I love talking with them, I love hanging out with them. I can't stand investigating with them because they will not shut up.

And it makes it really hard to investigate when you have someone who just is telling, and then I have relevant stories that's just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, for the sake of talking. And it's just like, please shut up, so we can investigate. And there's nothing more frustrating than getting an amazing EVP and having some of them and sharing grandma's recipe over the top of it. Because it has to be prepared with EVP says, and if people would have just paused, like Greg said, just given the spirit a chance to answer, you'd have a really cool EVP.

Instead, we're talking about whatever. Remember, you and I can just sit here and talk. We're human beings. We've got vocal cords made out of some substance spirits.

They can only talk in a whisper. Their vocal cords aren't very big. Sometimes it takes them a while to gather up enough energy, which is one of the reasons why we have to give them a little time. Now, Drake, you said that this is one of personal...

Yeah, yeah, it's one of mine. This one of mine, because almost every single EVP that I've gotten has been tainted to where I can't use them, because someone's either talked over it or has just done a million questions at once. That's frustrating. I was just going to ask if you've had any, what your experiences were, but you answered that.

Out of all of the EVPs I've had, I've only got one that's been good that I've actually been able to use. Oh, that's frustrating. Yeah, and it's funny because one of our investigators from Days of Your, who long time less than I should remember, beaker, he was always fun on investigations because he was blunt. And so, someone was talking a necessarily during investigation.

He'd make uncomfortable eye contact with them and go, talking for the recording, while staring at him. I remember that. And he was like, five and two hundred and fifty pounds. Yeah, and it was just funny because it was pretty intimidating.

People were like, oh, they just shut right up. Alright, I'm going to jump in now with my paranormal pet peeve. And this one is near and dear to my heart. For those who are familiar with me from earlier in the show and for those who are not familiar with me, I have spent a lot of time, effort and research into demonology.

Those are my favorite cases, the cases that people run from, the ones they won't touch, the ones that I really like to get involved in. What's that? Me too, that's why we're siblings. Yes, the darker it is, the scarier it is, give me a call.

I've got the Emmy Bill spoons in this room with me right now. One thing that kind of drives me crazy though is when everything's a demon. And the funny thing is I know there's investigators who say that about me, that I say everything's a demon and I do not. I think they're more common than people realize, but I don't think everything is a demon.

And it's just frustrating because not every spirit is a demon. In fact, I had somebody the other day who I'd smit for the first time and they found a paranormal investigator. In fact, actually, I was working on the new website and I said, well, I'm fixing this website because 10 years old and I do paranormal investigations. Oh, you're playing with the devil.

And I looked at them and squaring and I said, yeah, sometimes and they laughed. They thought it was funny. But not all spiritual demons. I've done this long enough.

I think everyone in this podcast has that you can't investigate for any length of time and realize that there are regular spirits out there, there are law spirits, they're sad spirits, but not everything's a demon. And the reality is not everything is masquerading as a good spirit, which is a demon to try and get you. It's just, it's not possible. There's just not that many.

And with that, while there are demons, there are also different powers of demons, different, some of them are much more powerful. They're either with seven or eight named ones that they talk about, but there's lots of different ranks of demons all the way down to demons that are not very powerful. Think of them as the private in the army of the devil. They don't have a lot of power where you've got others that could be very powerful.

Somebody's got a pledge of demonic toilets. Yeah. And the thing is with that is sometimes people's love wants to go around to try and pass a message on to try and watch over them. And when investigators go in, like, everything's a demon, everything's a demon.

It just stigmatizes investigating in general that it's all evil, it's all demonic. And it's just not. That being said, they are out there and they are pretty prevalent, but it's not all the time. It's not every single spirit.

This almost goes back to that, the first pet peeve of sensationalizing everything. And I might be reiterating a little bit, but if everything's a demon, then there's no excitement. It's like, it's like, molding everything. Well, and that's why we started typing spirits, because we're the ones who I think other groups do it now too, but we used to call ghosts and demons.

And we started doing type one, type two, type three. And I've heard other groups have adopted that same moniker that we've used. In fact, I can talk to a investigator from another group in state, type three, and they know exactly what I'm talking about. And we did that because early on when we first started investigating, Riven's smiling at me on the video because I can see her and she knows exactly what we're talking about.

The portal knows that story. We're in a portal with Catholic grandma's home. She's like eight years old, 95 pounds, up and wet, sickly with. And we're in her house and we did this door with type three.

And we got there's a demonic spirit here. This portal, Catholic grandma's like on the phone to Rome, trying to get the pope over there. And not just a Mexican or not just a Catholic grandma, a Mexican Catholic grandma. I should have added that because that made it 10 times worse.

Exactly. But we sent him a camera stroke. She was having a come apart because she had a demon in her house. So we found it.

And as we've mentioned before, because we told the story a lot, we talked about with Cliff and we became good friends with her. She's actually, she will call me just to chit chat every once in a while. And we've been to our house a couple more times since. Anyway, but I digress.

Oh yeah, and so it's, we have to be careful of calling these demonic until we're sure they're demonic. Like I said, I think they're more prevalent than a lot of other groups think they are because we've run across a lot, but not everything's demonic. And along that lines too, sometimes not coming right out and going, oh, that's a demon. And then people get into that.

The idea of there's a type three spirit here. Let us explain to you what that is and what the ramifications are. And then we get into there and we'll tell them what it is, but we're not just throwing it right at them and freaking them out. And along with that too, and kind of like Chad was saying earlier, there's varying levels.

You've got, if you want to go script really, you've got like veals above and all these different named demons, but you've also got the toilet plunchers. You've got the little minions, the little imps, whatever you want to call them. And a lot of times most of the ones that we run across, it's not Amityville. It's not the Conjuring.

It's just something that's, well, I've learned that's trying to stir up hate discontent and issues at home fear. Yeah. So one way I like to describe this is good and bad. Mere each other, good and evil, mere each other in a lot of ways.

And there's a hierarchy in the demonic world. I have a book with named demons in it. There's a special on there's the president Satan, and it's going to go down to what Castle said as the toilet plungers. And it doesn't matter what church you're in, there's a few exceptions, but most churches, there's going to be the president of the church, the prophet of the church, the head guy of your church, both the bishops, cardinals, yeah.

Maybe put god in the trinity up there, however you want to do that, but then it's going to trickle down to the deacons and the Sunday school teachers, same kind of thing. Just one is good and the other is during upheaval and discontent. And that kind of organizational structure isn't just in heaven and hell, it's businesses. You look at the businesses you're in, you look at law enforcement with the things, you look at the military.

I mean, organizations have hierarchies. Yeah. Ultimately though, it's just important to just educate everybody, not everything's a demon, just because we pray normal investigate doesn't mean we're using Ouija boards to talk to Satan. So I guess ultimately that's my pet peeve, it's just people who just either don't understand what it is we do or they understand and they just assume everything's evil or investigation groups who come in and just everything is evil.

Yeah. And along that line, you brought up the Ouija boards in our investigations, both the public and the home investigations. We don't use Ouija boards. We don't use summoning candles.

We're not in this to bring things into the environment where they're to investigate what's there and try to help alleviate it. If that's the case in public investigations, it's up to the video. Do they want things mitigated or not? We do ask our participants as part of the thing before, please don't bring Ouija boards, please don't bring summings things in.

And on the same time, please don't cleanse entities that are there because it's not our space. And if Uncle Castle catches you bringing a Ouija board or any other form of divination to investigation, Uncle Castle's got a kicky right squaring he has. So just prepare for that. Or he'll be.

And that doesn't include things like the EVP meters or the people who say, no, those aren't bringing it, those aren't bringing it, those are doing that, even like the Dowsing Rods, those are not summoning things in. Yeah, we're talking about specifically trying to summon spirits or speak with spirits through divination means, which is occult means. Okay, Chad. You know what bothers me is when two paranormal investigators get into a big ego battle against each other.

It's not my fault. Yes, but no, that oftentimes we'll get investigators, both sometimes even within the group and sometimes just that our investigations and they're trying to show their investigating chops and that. And well, I think it's this and I think it's fine to have an opinion, but you need to be able to respect what other people think and feel to because we all have different gifts. We all have different abilities.

Me, I don't have very many, but there's other people that really get the feels are very pathetic with the spirits and things. It's very interesting to people perceive the same things differently. And we can even take that into law enforcement with Castle. People can witness the same accident and report vastly different interpretation of the facts.

It's where video is great, but people's perceptions of things based upon their experience, based upon their past is completely different. And it's probably the same way in the spirit in paranormal world. One thing that's kind of interesting with the paranormal world too is a lot of that also ties into the investigators belief system. If you get, let's say, an LDS investigator versus an investigator who's Catholic or an investigator who's agnostic or atheist or a waken, they're going to have very different perceptions of how or why something works.

I know when Wisps first started and we were new to the game, there was a group that we relied on and worked with a little bit. They were smaller groups. They don't really advertise. And we did run across some, going back to my earlier pet peeve, we ran across some clearly demonic spirits.

And when the investigators in this group was very dismissive of us that there's not that many and we didn't know what we're talking about. And it goes into this investigator pissing match of who knows more and who knows better than who knows what. And this particular investigator, just his experience, he didn't really believe demonic spirits were that prevalent. And because of that, he was very dismissive of what we felt we discovered and what I still firmly believe were some demonic contings.

We had quite a few right off the bat. And I feel that investigator probably underestimated many of his hauntings just based on his personal belief system. But I don't know because I haven't been to his investigation. So for me to say that really is almost dismissive and self-refripelegious for that.

But the reality is, yeah, it's a pet peeve to the eye-grate with each other. That's annoying when investigators dismiss other investigators just because they've got a belief system then what another investigator has. Or if they're in the situation that they're trying to, oh, the spirit likes me more than you, the ego's getting involved. It becomes a popularity contest and those kinds of things too.

Because sometimes that will come into play with investigators also. Yeah, so if we think about how strong personalities would find balance in a team, I would just want to start off by saying just have a mutual respect for people and understand that not everyone's going to think the same way. And just discussion and probably just be able to agree to disagree. And I think this carries over not just into go-tentine, but just in life in general.

Yeah, I think everybody has the right to have their opinion and everybody has the right to speak. And I think that's very important to be respectful of other people's beliefs. Even if it's not the way that you believe it or what you think is happening, but you can respect what they believe. So moving on to respect this actually segues really nicely into my next pet peeve.

Chad and I get the venues, we've called them new people and gotten new venues. And it's really hard to get into a venue sometimes because you know that some places fantastically haunted and I can't tell you how many times we've even told you on this podcast. We'll call someone and explain what we want to do and they say, oh, that's not our business model. And I understand that it's disappointing not to be able to get into a certain bill.

But I get it that someone might not want their place to be haunted. I just wish I could tell them if it was haunted, you'd have even more money. And you're going to make money in the middle of the night and you don't have to do anything except let us in. But you know, but not respecting the space.

That's one thing that we have in our presentation that we do is please, it's hard enough to get into these sites. We have to respect it so that we can continue to go there. So what does it mean to not respect a site? If you didn't like a playground, yelling, laughing, messing with objects, leaving trash.

If you've come on one of our investigations, we have twizzlers, we have chips, we have drinks. Enjoy a treat, have a treat. You're investigating, that's late at night, you get a little peckish. It's just fun to have a little treat.

We always make sure that there's garbage cans there. Just be a responsible adult and try to trash away. And this carries over into camping at school or at home, please. It's disrespectful to spirits and it's disrespectful to the property owners.

I want to leave the building exactly that we found it because I want the owners of those businesses to say that was a great group to work with and they left everything clean and nice. Part of that too, and I agree, like I said, it extends into other things. Fishing's one that came to mind because I seen some fishermen just leave all kinds of trash behind. But not only does that go into like leaving a space clean and how you found it, I've got investigations where people have brought like Ouija boards and they brought in bad stuff and I've had the owners place to say, gosh, this is before we caught them using a Ouija board and now things are way worse than before.

And that goes into those owners going to be way more skeptical or hesitant to bring in new groups in the future just because of the bad experience they had with another group. On top of that, a very good friend of mine, he's one of the very original hosts of this podcast about 10 years ago when we started this. And he brought him in as a skeptic. He was a hardcore skeptic.

And F.A. H.A. H.F. He's one of my best friends.

I still see F.A. Hang on, F.A. I brought him on an investigation. And like I said, one of my best friends I love him, but he treated the whole investigation like he was an absolute complete joke.

He was making fun of the spirits. He was making fun of the process. And he's a good person. I don't think he was intending to be disrespectful, but the behavior for a beginning to end was disrespectful to venue, disrespectful to the spirits of the venue.

In my opinion, that would fall under the knot respecting the space. And honestly, I think that also goes with not respecting the people around you. But if you go on a public investigation and you're being a jackass, that makes investigations suck for everybody else who's there. If 10 people come to an investigation and they've spent their time, money, etcetera, to come visit this venue.

And one person shows up drunk, which we'll kick out by with you, show drunk. But they show up drunk and I'm not saying I've showed up drunk, I should throw that in there too. Because there's acting like a horse's ass, pardon my French. That runs the investigation for nine other people.

So be respectful, not only the space that you're in, but be respectful of the other investigators who are there. Because they're just like you trying to have a good time and enjoy it and that shouldn't be, your good time shouldn't be, the expense of everybody else's good time. And then along with respect and a litter and property, a lot of the time, buildings that we go into are rarely just empty. Petini is a museum.

While Thistle is a restaurant. We could name off. The original is a museum. Clubhouse is a reception center.

We rarely go to a place that there isn't something else going on there as a viable business. And they're actually risking their business and livelihood and property. So it's very important to be respectful of their areas. Right.

So there's artifacts there. Don't touch them. Don't be moving things around. No, touchy.

No, touchy. You wouldn't want people to come into your house and start rearranging your furniture or putting things in different places. Be careful. In fact, at our petitini investigation, we want people to come in costumes because we're going to give prizes for the best costume.

Chad and I already have our costume. I'm super excited for it. But come in your costume, but don't have it be. Chad, give the example.

He's got the great example. I don't remember the great example. Forgive it before he's old. Oh, yeah.

I was at a Halloween costume. This has been years ago, but there were some werewolf kind of things, but they were sheet rockers and they were like literally eight or nine feet tall and they had these huge capes on sticks and they probably had a 15 foot wingspan stand in eight foot tall with these werewolf masks on. They were frightening and while that was an awesome costume, probably wouldn't be really good to go to the end. And we go to the dark.

We rarely have lights on. So just be aware of your surroundings. Remember that's not our space. Remember that we're guests and treat things the way that you want yours to treat it.

Pretty much. Next one I have is evidence hoarders and geekkeepers. This is a good one. That one is where people or teams will just keep everything to themselves and just not share it like they own the spirits and anything they find.

And it's a pet pee because I'm investigating and is all about collaboration. Some teams may get something that other teams don't. Collaboration helps everybody in the end game because it helps everybody understand what's going on because some spirits won't talk to certain teams. This reminds me of a specific venue.

The venue is now since closed. This is before Drake's time, but there's a venue we investigate periodically and one of the local teams, which I shall not name, some kind of arrangements with the owners of this venue that anybody who wants to investigate this venue had to go through that team. And it's annoying because basically they charge for the venue, but this team was basically taking a cut off the top of what was the fee that's been you charged. And so this is exactly what you're talking about.

They're basically keeping this venue. It's like, okay, we discovered it. We got our foot in the door. Now if you want to investigate here, you have to go through us.

You have to pay us to talk to the owner. And again, it kind of let the bad taste of my mouth about this team. This team is still existence, but the venue is not ours. The venue has gone defunct.

Yeah, it's kind of a bad taste of my mouth. It's like, I want to go investigate the venue, but I don't want to have to pay another team to go investigate their venue that they use my air quotations own or they've set up an exclusive deal. It's almost like if we set up an exclusive deal between need or the wild thistle word. Nobody's investigating unless they go through us or the clubhouse.

Who cares? I personally, I don't care if every criminal team in the state want to go investigate between need more power to them. I want to see what cool evidence they get. Honestly, I like to swap notes with other groups.

Hey, we got the school EVP. Hey, I caught the same EVP or the same voice on a different EVP. Yeah, the gatekeeping thing's obnoxious. Yeah, I would even if there's a ghost hunting team when you talk that says, hey, did you know that you can investigate here?

I'd be like, oh, no, I didn't. But thank you. It's so hard to get indoor venues sometimes. And I think of it too as like doctors.

What if there's a doctor that did all this research and he knew how to cure cancer, but it's his and he's not letting anybody else know. You can only go to him. And I think it's again, this is something that you could put into any field cooking, a ghost hunting, education, medicine, blood, we could. Yeah, this last spring, we for the first time investigated the clubhouse and I talked with the owner about it.

We got that set up and we had a really great experience. And I told him after I said, don't feel like we're the only ones that can come and do this here. This is your business. This is yours.

If other groups want to come, we will not feel bad if you allow other people to go and investigate the clubhouse. It's a terrific venue. How many people investigate Benson Grissmill? Everybody does.

It's a great venue. You're not going to run out of spirits. There's enough activity and there's so few really great venues around. And I want him to have a great experience as the owner of the clubhouse that if he can make some extra money by having paranormal investigations at night when his event calendar isn't full, that's a great win-win.

If I could toss in one more thing with this gatekeeper thing along with the pet peeve and most venue owners are amazing. And I don't mean to throw shade on another venue owner but I will without naming them. But I don't like when venues in particular become their own gatekeepers where it's like, ooh, we have spirits on our venue. Our venue is super popular.

People want to investigate here. So we will allow it however anyone who wants to come investigate here will charge a $1,000,000 per person. And basically they make the venue so inaccessible that it becomes hard for people to investigate there because even when teams come in they want to charge teams per person and it makes impossible for apps, events, paranormal services to rent that venue for guests to come investigate it because it's so expensive that it's not even for us to rent the venue and then charge tickets to cover the cost by the time everything's been done, the price is so astronomical that we know you guys are going to want to pay that. We don't want to pay that.

And so then you basically close itself out because they're gatekeeping their own venue. Yeah. We've been at $35 for our venues since 2020. And we haven't raised those and we try to do that.

And we have some venues that we're able to get a little cheaper and some venues that are a little more. But we want to bring a product to you where it's a consistent price for you guys. And that's important for us. And some of the venues cost quite a bit of money and there's not a lot to be done there.

But venues like what Cass is talking about, we're the point that we can't even get in. We'd have to charge $50, $60 a ticket to even be able to get in. Almost $80 to $90 on some of these. Yeah.

There's probably two or three that we would really like to go to, but they're just way too expensive. All right. So I want to talk about another pet peeve of mine since we can't get Castle to shut up on this episode. Drake's where they're looking at me like, what the hell did I get myself into?

Castle won't shut the hell up. I had to live with this my whole life. Speak to people who talk and will see during an investigation. All right.

So other pet peeve I have, gosh, out of the 5000. I'm sure you don't want this to be through our episode. Okay. Tech obsession without understanding.

I love ghost hunting gear. I think ghost hunting gear is amazing. I love spirit boxes. I love ghost meter pros.

Even though you guys don't think they work. I know they do. I have an EP proof that they work. Any map meters into that nature, I love technology.

I think it's wonderful. I think it's delightful. It makes me happy. That being said, people who rely on technology without understanding it, drive me nuts.

There's, and if there's anybody I hear listening and I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry. Lame Raven, she invited me back on the show. I hate when I go on investigation and I see somebody with a cell phone where they've downloaded a ghost finder, 12, the Pokemon edition or whatever the hell app they found. And they're like, oh, this app shows 15 ghosts around me.

Oh, there's a ghost in this corner. Oh, there's a ghost in that corner. Do phones have capabilities? Absolutely.

They've got motion sensing? Yes, they do. I don't think phones have all the sensors and detectors that allow those apps to leave people to believe they do. I think most of those apps on phones are basically, I used to fish a lot.

I still love fishing, but there's no fish I used to fish with. And he used to say most of the stuff in the sporting goods stores is designed to catch fishermen and not fish talking about the bright colors and the sparklies and that kind of stuff. And sometimes I feel like cell phone apps fall in that category. They're designed to catch people interested in ghost hunting and they're not that effective.

And along those lines, no hair equipment works because if you have a K2 meter and you're in a building that's got crazy, like exposed wires and stuff, debunk that stuff, make sure that you're not just making up crazy exposed wires. Just before you get too far away from cell phone apps, I always tell people if you're a first time ghost hunter, if you have your phone, you have everything you need for a first time. But what by that? I mean, you have a flashlight, you have a camera, you have a voice recorder.

I never once say, oh, hop on and get all these apps. I would venture to say that 98% of the ghost hunting apps that are out of the market are garbage. Really, I don't think your phone has all the sensors, those apps, I think they do. Like, it's a motion.

And that's about it. I'm not certain that someone has an EMF meter built into it. I'm confident it does not. But back to EMF meters, an example is we investigated Cleve Evans house several years ago.

He had a very negative demonic haunting in his home. But in his living room, he had these fluorescence tube lights and I swear to God, if you spent more than 20 minutes of living room, you get cancer from the EMF, these lights are putting out. I actually caught some maybe Peas in his living room, but you can just hear, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep constantly from the EMF meters because these lights put out so much unshielded EMF radiation that they were just making the K2 meters and the EMF meters just go absolutely bonkers. And I think anybody who didn't understand how those work would think that that living room was like about to go full Amityville when it wasn't.

It was just a lot of unshielded wires and just really terrible part of my friend Shitty. Can I just run this podcast? Yes. A really shitty light fixture that just brought out a ton of EMF energy into the living room.

How do I think that EMF meter helped the spirits in his home do crazy things? Yes, I do. But again, one of the first things I do, and I think Drake probably does the same thing, I've not investigated a lot with Drake. I haven't invested a lot with Chad and Raven.

But if I start getting EMF spikes on a K2 meter first thing I start doing is I start waving that thing around in trying to see if I can figure out where that energy is coming from. I guess like is it. Oh, I guess it's a Benson Griss Mill, a fine example. We mentioned Benson Griss Mill and if you go to the Big Mill Griss Mill, you can almost consistently get two lights on your K2 meter and that's because there's a cell power across the field.

Yeah, we did a residential not too long ago and we went in the bedroom where they said they were getting the most activity feeling creepy and they had an air purifier right by the bed that you went over and put your EMF meter by it spiked like crazy. Something else that we'll put out a lot of EMF is the Wi-Fi. If there's a Wi-Fi router that's going to put out a big field. Power puzzle to it usually.

Yep. So here's a question for you, Castle. Do you think as investigators we should prioritize fewer tools but better training or a lot of tools but not just you, Castle, anybody who what do you guys think about that? I personally think there's a happy medium.

Go back to it. I give it a happy medium. We all need a happy medium. Happy mediums, not angry ones.

I would say it makes it both. I think back to my fishing analogy, my friend who said that a lot of things in the most important good storage are designed to catch fishermen not fish. I think if you go to Ghostop or Ghost hunting store or any other paranormal gear store, there's a lot of need to speed up looking at pieces of equipment that costs $5 billion each. Anyone who has ever researched ghost hunting equipment is not cheap.

And I've spent a lot of money on this equipment. I think everyone in this podcast has spent a lot of money on equipment. And I think we can all agree that some stuff works. Some stuff was a waste of money.

And I'm in the opinion that if you find something that works well for you, then one or two pieces of equipment are all you need. For me, I like a K2 meter. I like a good yes or no device. Ghost meter Pro was my go to until Raven sold them.

I'm still angry about that. I'm looking for replacement. I've got a couple of mind. There's a device called the Dead Bell.

Was that right? Dead Bell? Yes, and I just got one. That seems like it's effective.

I'm excited to give one a try. So I don't know. Different people, different pieces of equipment seem to work better for different people. If you give me a pair of dowsing rods, I can do absolutely nothing with them.

I might as well just back them right to an outlet and see how the electricity conduction might lie to my right hand because that's about the most effective thing I can do with a pair of dowsing rods is 120 volts of puree. Because they do nothing for me. But again, Ghost meter Pro works for me, but not other people. So more training, one or two pieces of equipment that work.

That's my opinion. See, I would agree. In my opinion, if you want to have one piece of equipment, if you want to have 100 pieces of equipment, I don't care. That's up to you.

Make sure that you know how it works and you can explain to people how it works. You either need to either explain it to residential clients, your friends, or on our public events, aren't paying guests. And you want to be able to explain what it does so they don't think that you're a Waco. So just really quickly, Castle, the piece of equipment, I've tried three different spirit boxes.

I don't know what it is about spirit boxes, but they do not work for me. They don't work for me. Yeah, they meet me, you're going to work for me. I think I should make a word up.

I was going to say as far as I'm going to explain how your equipment works. You mentioned public. You're going to look really stupid talking to a fellow investigator if you know how your equipment works. I got like reading some equipment, has it worked?

It looked like you don't know what you're doing at that point. And you may be trying to explain that to another investigator from another team. So yeah, no, your stuff works. If you ask me how stuff works, I'm not going to give you the unicorn answer.

You're not going to get a real scientific, but I still know how they work. It's interesting you say that. So one of the things I teach how to use police radar like radar guns for expedient. And that's one of the things I always tell my students is you don't need to know how the signals travel through the device to make it work.

You just need to be able to explain that you point this here. You push the button, this reading comes out. You need to explain the understand the readings you're getting, but you don't need to understand how the internals work. Okay, I fit that.