And now the low post podcast live from Los Angeles, California, wow, a wild night in the NBA, headlined by a fracas between the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Golden State Warriors that began when Clay Thompson and Jada McDaniel's were jostling and jersey tugging for a rebound. They started pushing and shoving and then in comes Draymond Green slaps the million dollar dream on Rudy go bare Rudy hands up hands up you guys hand I'm not doing anything I thought the ref was going to raise his arms like to see if they drop down three times like they do in the WWE for the for the effective submission and Draymond was ejected Clay was ejected McDaniel's was ejected I would be blown away after a man green given his history is not suspended. All of this overshadowed another win for the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Brandon Pajensky explosion that happened for the Warriors the Timberwolves are now eight and two first in the West first in defense the Warriors have fallen to six and six and look as we welcome in Kevin Pelton we have to start with the sleeper hold heard around the world the image of a wide eyed go bare I mean Rudy go bare just can't in things that are very serious and things that are very almost funny just can't avoid being in the spotlight for like bizarro reasons that image of a bug eyed Rudy go bare hands up and Draymond slapping the sleeper hold on him will go down in NBA meme history forever and ever and ever if you want to read it sympathetically to Draymond which I really do not you would say that us looking on television with slowed down replays and close up shots it's easy to see that that go bare did not have his arms around clay Thompson's neck he kind of had his arms around his chest he was clearly trying to be peacemaker maybe from Draymond's perspective in what is a chaotic fast paced blurry environment he sees his teammate being yanked around and gets angry about it but that's a very generous interpretation to what it was clearly an aggressive act that just went on and on it was like a thirty second sleeper hold if Draymond Green is suspended and I suspect he will it will be justified just an absolutely bizarre sequence of events two minutes into a highly anticipated it was an it was an in season tournament game to my pick the Minnesota Timberwolves from day one damn it were my pick for absolutely no reason other than I was high on the Timberwolves to win the in season tournament we're all in it to win it baby this franchise doesn't want anything meaningful let's get to get the first ist um real quickly before we get to them kp last Friday on this podcast the Warriors were six and three and I said to Howard Beck there's a weird dissonance watching this team where for like five minutes they're like oh they're the Warriors like yeah it looks like the Warriors it looks like a real team and then for the next eight minutes it's like where did that go why do they seem kind of uncertain about who should play with who is this bench thing really working or is this just a product of like really bad opponent jump shooting that will come back to bite them eventually why can't anybody put the ball in the basket other than Stephen Curry and I said their next four or five games were Cleveland, Minnesota Minnesota and a couple other good games after that I want to see if they can get a signature win because they don't really have one other than the second or third game of the season against the Kings and they did not get a signature win they lost all of those games so far they are 13th in offense 12th in defense 11th in net rating facing a Steph Curry knee injury that appears to be day to day and no big deal but look any game without him is more likely a loss than a win at this point a dream on suspension clay can't get going Wiggins another game last night panic button is to or they're talking about are we going to start Sarich now over Looney and start Sarich at the four and green at the five or however you want to conceive of it that group's only played 25 minutes together K P I had them in my second sanctum of title contenders outside the inner sanctum of four Milwaukee Boston Denver Phoenix I had them in the second sanctum I had a Minnesota actually although I was very high on Minnesota and had them as a top four team in the West do the Warriors just not have it what's your worry level on the Warriors moderate I mean it's interesting I came on this podcast in October and took the Warriors under at 44 and a half or whatever it was it was more than that I guess I forget what the actual number was but I think it was like about seven and a half maybe forty eight and a half and for the first six years of the season I was feeling very grateful about that decision because it seemed like everything was playing out as they had hoped you know all of a sudden the Warriors are not in after we never Steph Curry is off the court because of the fact that they've got another Hall of Fame point guard and that was you know exactly what they were going for in that trade but you know now you take a step back and I think one of the things we talked a lot in the offseason about the starting lineup and you know whether Chris Paul would be part of it and a big part of that discussion was they had the best net rating of any lineup in the league that played at least 250 minutes last season and it turns out that 250 minutes is actually still not a very large sample for lineup data so I mean part of it is obviously the quite Thompson and Andrew Wiggins are not playing like they did last season but part of it is also just that opponents are getting 53% of their threes against the starting five this is crazy I looked up that set today because they're that line up is minus 21 for the season in 87 minutes 112 offensive rating which is and 126 defensive rating which is like sub hornets territory and then your natural thing is well let me see the threes and that's where like oh that's weird is that almost encouraging in a way because that can't keep up yeah a little bit at least you know as far as this lineup no longer works I think speaks to that element of it I mean Clay this time a year ago was shooting even worse from the field so you know the idea was that he was going to have a stronger full 82 game season this year because of the fact that he was able to play pickup and work out normally all off season which he wasn't able to do in the summer of 2022 coming off those back to back loss seasons and just having returned and that hasn't come to pass but I don't think like Billy Thompson probably hasn't forgotten how to shoot Wiggins is a little more worrisome to me because it's not just shooting it's also you know some of the numbers that tend to stabilize quicker his assist rate is the lowest of his career he's getting way fewer corner threes than even back in the Minnesota days so that's a worrisome sign for me but could you bother to get a couple more rebounds I mean that's never been a straight for Andrew Williams just get a couple just get a couple I mean he's had a couple of high ones in the last few games like okay there he is and then it's just like then you're like was he in the game for the following nine minutes because I didn't really notice also the shop blocking which is something that came to life when he got traded to the Warriors is back to Minnesota levels so you know all these athletic slash hustle indicators are troubling which is consistent with what people have said about him coming into camp out of shape but look here comes Brandon Pajevsky to save the day you already warned me that there's going to be an extended Pajevsky and look Steve Kerr said after the game he's in the rotation now he's playing he rebounds he connects nobody likes the word connector more than Steve Kerr and other Warriors people connect they just want everyone to just connect connect connect let's connect over text message connect connect it's amazing they never brought in Rondo giving his connect for prowess that's not bad but look I mean this is like that that comment if he means it like when Steph comes back to he's in the rotation when we got everybody he's in the rotation that's a shot at the bow of Moses Moody Johnny coming up like I don't know who else but like you're getting crowded with guys now well Moody's the guy's actually played well this season he was entering last night he was second and wins a buffer placement player on the team partially because you know Dreamline hasn't played very many minutes the games he missed at the start of the season and then the ejection the other night Komingo though bottom five and warp coming into last night's game Wiggins was last in the league so that's that's the spot that's troublesome and I mean can I just disregard warp just because I want Komingo to be good so I'm gonna just disregard the entire step just take the preseason warp where he was in the top 10 in the league so that I think they changed the formula between the preseason and the regular season in a way that makes it invalid no there you know that makes sense but if you're if you're somebody out one of those guys for Pajevsky you're taking a team that already is small and is having trouble playing against these physical front courts of Minnesota and Cleveland that they face the last few games here and making them even smaller so as excited as I am about Pajevsky who is number two in the stats only version of my draft projections this year that that is a bit of a worry in and of itself can I just read the go bear quotes from last night in case people have missed them because not everyone can see everything this is via John Krasinski at the athletic although a lot of people had these quotes they were sent to the scrum this is after Draymond a day after Draymond did everything you could to try to get under Anthony Edwards skin what are you gonna do about you think I'm gonna give you a layup what the eff you're gonna do about anything I was like who like I got nothing to say to you I'm just gonna win the game and now we're gonna go bears saying after last night's break is it's kind of funny because before the game I was telling myself that stuff is not playing so I know Draymond is going to try and get ejected because every time stuff doesn't play Draymond doesn't want to play it's his guy step he'll do anything he can to get ejected okay strong strong then he talked about Steve cursing Draymond was just trying to come to Clay's defense and doing the thing the Warriors have done 45 times now which is like trying to explain away something that Draymond Green has done on the court what do you want me to say he's backing his guy but I think he knows deep inside he doesn't want to say it but his guy is a clown oh boy wow first of all now this is a rivalry like this is a whole thing now and this goes back to Draymond making fun of Rudy Go Bear for crying when he got left off the all-star team in 2019 I think which I thought was kind of a cheap shot but everyone likes to take these shots cheap shots at Rudy Go Bear and look I've been to Draymond like I love that love him as a basketball player I love his his fierce approach to everything but some of the stuff he does is just it's just not like last night was an escalation he's gonna get suspended and this is this kind of reflects the changing tide of like some of these guys are just announcing A we're tired of you and B we're not frightened of you at all and we don't care and we're just gonna say out loud what we may be saying amongst ourselves in the locker room those are those are quotes those are those are pretty strong ass quotes from Rudy Go Bear I got nothing more to say except that's that's a wild moment for a guy who's been a punching bag for a lot of his career including a personal dream on green punching bag he's punching back now and he's he's not it's a twist of the knife to say to imply oh he's on team knows he's on team knows Steve Kerr's not being honest he knows he's a clown obviously he can't Rudy can't know that but that's that's a that's a knife to the gut right there I mean this obviously like is deeply personal for Go Bear and Draymond Green in some sort of a defensive player of the year where I think I think that Draymond you know his cast doubt on Rudy's defensive player of the year when so if we have a steel cage match between the two of them it has to be for a one of the trophies right? Draymond Green is definitely bringing like the brass knuckles tucked inside the trunks into any steel cage match like there's no question that there would be there would be some shenanigans in in you know dirtiest player in the game level shenanigans I look Warriors I'm worried about the Warriors they just don't look they don't look very good and they have stuff to trade so we're not at trade season yet we're going to talk about trades later I don't see like obvious great candidates for them yet it's a little too early but I'm officially on Warriors watch at this point because it's just these these games that were kind of early season testers have not gone well let's talk about the other side of the coin which is Minnesota 8 and 2 still just one-tieth in offense and you know it's weird because their offense has actually been very good with their starters on the floor it's been very good with both cat and go bare on the floor 115 offensive rating plus 39 in 221 minutes with those guys on the floor and the lineups kind of breakdown as you would expect like together plus what did I say eight seven and a half eight cat by himself plus 15 per 100 possessions with a high offensive rating and a good defensive rating go bare by himself plus 15 per hundred possessions low offensive rating minuscule defensive rating again as you'd expect better defense with the Rudy lineups better offense with the cat lineups naz and cat is a solid plus 15 per 100 possessions naz and go bare plus 14 per 100 possessions almost every big man combination is working except naz by himself naz read who's been amazing off the bench those lineups are being blitzed in limited minutes and yet their offense nets out at 20th despite the fact that they've shot very well from three and they are number one in mid-range shooting so far in the league I can't really parse that like should I be worried that their offense is 20th despite really good jump shooting I'm netting out on no the offense particularly when their best players are on the floor passes the eye test for me I think towns has started to figure out how and where to pick his spots to attack when go bare is on the floor and go bare is the main screen center and towns has to sort of toggle between spacing the floor and finding ways to attack from the perimeter on in finding times to duck in in the post finding times to attack switches when they run their double drag action and he pops off a flare screen from Rudy and gets a switch calmly looks good McDaniel's looks awesome attacking closeouts like that passes the eye test to me offensively obviously they're I don't know if they'll be a top eight offense but I think they're gonna be better than 20th defensively they're just gigantic across the floor and like they're built to be a pretty good defensive team I when Malika Andrews on one of our NBA today YouTube episodes asked all of us for spicy takes because we're talking about spicy food this was before the season started I said Minnesota top four seed in the West and I'm starting to wonder KP is that underselling the wolves like is this it is this are we full on like this team is a championship contender now I don't think I'm ready to get there yet I mean is this the point where I do the thing where I talk about opponent 3.8 sure do it it feels like the Simpsons meme say the thing opponents are hitting 31.5% against them so far the lowest amount in the league and you can parse this 100 different ways I have I looked at it another way like you know teams that allow between 31 and 32% over the first 10 games of the season the rest of the season opponents hit 36% which is precisely league average like it just doesn't tell you anything about how they're going to defend threes okay but even so let me pour cold water on top of your cold water okay I believe you're pouring hot water on there right I don't know maybe put coffee um their second in opponent free throw rate which is a very which for them is like I don't even know that's like are we living in the twilight zone like the wolves learned how not to foul I don't even know what to do with that piece of information they're still eighth in forcing turnovers and it's hard to do that while not fouling to have an aggressive style that gets you a lot of turnovers and also not hack away and hack away which is by the way a warrior is saying they foul everybody all the time and they're 29th in opponent free throw right now and they're about average in defensive rebounding which for the wolves is like average average average we figured out how to box out awesome and the other glass of hot water I would say is yes 31% is not sustainable they're so far away the best defense that if they allowed 36% on threes the rest of the season is you're saying what do they fall to fourth like they're gonna be a really good defense regardless right well that was really good guess because one of the things I did last year when I was looking at this question is if you take only the shot quality according to second spectrums shot quality metrics and then the other three of the four factors that you talked about what is that projected defense is going to be you know at the end of the season and the Minnesota Temple was going into the last night by that metric I came up with were the fourth best defense and I think they're probably going to be a little better than that because some of what they're doing in terms of opponent shooting is they're also number one in you know reducing opponent shooting relative to their shot quality in the restricted area and that's something that does tend to stabilize much more quickly and is very useful when you have a bunch of seven-foot guys and one of them is a three-time defensive player of the year however many times Rico bears wanted yeah people don't want to hear this Rico bears going in all of them I mean look I imagine just imagine if Minnesota won the title just just imagine it for a second all of the clips that would be recycled from everybody trashing the go bear trade as an all-time disaster would would recycle and everyone look what you said two years ago look what you said two years ago look what you said two years ago I still think qualitatively like it was not a good trade they gave up way too much they were not bidding against anybody and it's kind of a trade that has them in jail like they almost have to make the finals for it to have been worth it the outlay of assets but look they're playing unbelievably well in their size like I highlighted this on NBA today yesterday there was a play in the first Warriors game where Steph came around a screen from Looney I think clean look if you freeze it when he gets around the screen Jada McDaniel's who's guards everybody guards Steph guards bigs guards small guards mascots guards everybody gets hit by the screen and I think it was go bears maybe a step too far back and if you freeze it at that moment it looks like death for the wolves like we've seen that clip a million times Steph has space behind him and in front of him that's an open three Jada McDaniel first go bear kind of stunts out at him and go bears a large guy Jada McDaniel's is so big that he recovers flies at Steph and Steph mid rise up it's like oh a six eight whatever dude is coming at me I gotta stop brings the ball back down goes back up and Jada plants jumps back in front of him and disrupts the shot that's like size people think of his big guys at the basket they just there's just less space all over the floor passing lanes driving lanes there's just arms everywhere McDaniel's looks unbelievable on both ends of the floor and we haven't even mentioned like I still think he's got a ways to go as a passer but he's definitely better play making this season than last season like the ant go bear pick and roll already looks like a completely different animal than it was last year and it's not even that ant is hitting go bear which he is now and then it's the skip passes to the corner it's all of those kind of plays that he's making in addition to all the crunch time shots if you're if you're asking me why can't they win the title I'm kind of running out of answers like other than like they're the wolves and bad things happen to them they do match up well with Denver I think that's a real thing but I would still put them like who are you confident is definitely better than them in the western conference Denver who else yeah I think that's the right way yeah I mean look we haven't seen Phoenix play with all three they're big three together apparently that's gonna happen tonight so that'll be interesting to see but none of the you know there was a lot of talk going into the season maybe in the first week of the season but how strong the top of the western conference looks I don't think that's the case anymore so there's very much an opening for the wolves to have you know the season the kings had last year the regular season and get the number three seed it you know if not the number two seed and they to go back to what you were saying about the really go bear trade and all the criticism of it the criticism was not this team is going to be bad with really go bear absolutely this is what we expected from them last year was for them to be a high 40s-ish type of team that because of the fact that they were putting more emphasis on the regular season might finish ahead of some of these super team conglomerates that we have more faith than in the playoffs but you know or dealing with injuries and lack of depth throughout the regular season so yeah I think it's playing out that way and to your earlier point about them in the end season tournament or your projection about them this is always the kind of team the end season tournament was designed for like I think people had this vision of you know I don't know who's a Orlando let's say I mean that may be selling Orlando short but someone that's not even going to make the playoffs is going to make this incredible run through the end season tournament like probably not even over a four-game stretch you know they're not going to get that hot but Minnesota is the precise kind of team that you know now is is the favorites to win their group in the end season tournament and has a chance to win a game or two along the way and maybe get to the finals in Vegas yeah baby um here's the only take I have on the end season tournament I like it I think it's gonna be fun I think it is fun I like most of the courts the Lakers court in person last night I was at the game was really nice looking I don't know how it came off on TV it's a lot of yellow it's a lot of yellow I was told by some photographers at the game it doesn't photograph particularly well for artistic reasons I don't understand my only major criticism is I can't keep track of who's in what group so like we're talking on TV yesterday like if the Lakers win tonight they're gonna have a strangle hold on group be I'm like I don't even know who's in group be and I know they did it by conference and they did it by team quality I'm wondering if they need to just do the groups should just be the divisions because I'm never gonna remember who's in what group and like sit there and care about who's where and who's why like I just can't remember and I think that's one thing I would consider on Minnesota the only last thing I'll say is I don't quite remember a situation like this where a team is this good with this much single season upside and they have a lot and everyone there must know this team will not look like this next year almost no matter what because financially the McDaniel's deal kicks in Kyle Anderson's a free agent Mike Connolly's a free agent Nas Reed has a new big contract like they just can't pay all of these guys they'll be so far into the tax they'll be like Warriors level into the tax like forget like oh we're a Milwaukee level into the tax and we do that because we have a good team and a generational player this would be like no small market has ever paid a bill like that and there's just there's just nothing they can do about it right now they can't it's they can't shut they're too good they can't any decision they're so good that any decisions about the future must be put off until this season plays out its course yeah usually we only see it with teams that are like defending champions or the end of the run it's the last dance situation that you know we've seen with the Warriors perhaps multiple times over the course of this run but and that's the criticism that go bear trade is look this is the season where they are most all in right now and Anthony Edwards is 22 and like he's very good he's probably all in the caliber now but is this the best Anthony Edwards is gonna be probably not but I mean that was the underlying bet of the go bear trade it was a bet almost as much on Anthony Edwards as it was on Rico bear was a bet that this dude will be ready in short order you're right that he's gonna I mean like he's not even in his prime and he's already they look like they're gonna win that bet like even if he's 85% of the player he'll be in four or five years that player is still effing awesome.
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Lonzo's injury theirs they clearly would be better if not much better with him but when you pay Zaclovin to Coloboo tradition tomorrow rows and all of whom have made recent all-star teams the amount of money that they're paid and the pedigree that they have and what was traded away for them Franz Wagner Jed Howard Wendell Carter junior at the pick still going out to San Antonio you can't be out scored three years in a row with those three dudes on the court I don't really care who the surrounding talent is um Zaclovin makes 40 million this year 43 next year 46 the year after that and has a 50 million dollar player option in 26 27 it's a lot of money for Zaclovin it's a lot of money I heard Brian Winhor saying on his pot today you might you might want to buckle up for a disappointing trade return if you're expecting like blockbuster like three picks two young players I would agree um Zaclovin just hasn't one at a high level in the NBA I don't think that's necessarily his fault if he plays a part in it um there are certainly worries about his knee coming off the ACL thing a couple seasons go he's recovered fine but there's still worries about it I'm just telling you what people are saying um I said to you let's build some fake let's build some fake Zaclovin trades I will give you first bite at the apple I mean to me there are only two teams that should really seriously be thinking about making this game oh boring but fine I mean no no I mean we're gonna talk about the other teams but the teams that actually should be making this tree that we should be focusing on are the Lakers in the Toronto Raptors oh I'm so glad you brought up Toronto no one is gonna bring them up and they are on my list right here it says tour tour okay you're gonna do the obligatory Lakers one just do the obligatory Lakers things so I mean the if we're matching salary the closest it's Russell and Ryachi Mora and the the first round pick that the Lakers could trade which is either 2029 or 2030 the interesting question there is is that enough for Chicago or do they demand that Austin Reeves be in that trade oh no then we're not making a trade like we're not doing it um before the Austin Reeves is not in the trade do you love and really I think you need to add money um otherwise the Lakers are taken back an extra x like 5 million or something right like I had Vincent in there but that puts the bulls over the tax the bulls are not far from the luxury tax themselves like they're like 1.5 under something like that that's the trade D low plus ru E plus whatever else plus that one pick they can trade that's the trade it's the only trade the Lakers out there not I would if they trade Austin Reeves in his acclevine deal given how they've built up Austin Reeves yes he's coming off the bench on his playing quite well and given that Alex Cruz so got away from them to the Bulls and be and be Karissa at two point out like I just don't think that's that's even in that game for the Lakers if they put Reeves in the deal I just don't think that doesn't anything to help their team um okay let's like we'll see the Lakers they've talked a lot about continuity and you know they've they've scrounged up they're over $500 scrounged up some wins managed without LeBron to get a W Anthony Davis looks really good Vando hasn't played Vincent has barely played like I'd like to see the team before I start trading I mean it's interesting before and they will because I don't think we can be traded until January 15th yeah all of this is January it's like December 15th January the whole roster is January 15th guys who signed the whole tradeable roster before we get to Toronto I'm so excited you brought up Toronto um uh Philly did not come up in Philly's not one of your teams despite the fact that they did this whole like we got assets for James Harden we want to flip them for an all-star level player yeah but what has happened you know before that trade and especially since it with the the 50 PC dropped the other day is like Terry's max is too good offensively for me to need that other player to be someone who is maximized with all in their hands and then just defensively Attarius max is actually in back court it's not gonna work at the highest levels I just I'd rather take my chances in free agency than make that trade is Philadelphia I would too um any time a guard and Jacqueline's a wing more than a guard obviously but any time a minus defensive perimeter player who leans to guard you know more than big small forward any time even a point guard like Damian Lillard we just went through this with Damian Lillard any time a guy like that hits the trade market people start fake trading them to the nicks with Jalen Brunson or the Sixers with Tyree's maxi or wherever there's another small guard that's already there and you kind of have to stop yourself like that is that a defensively viable situation against elite playoff offenses and perhaps it is not and obviously it would vaporize their cap space as the Sixers that you're using your cap space in that trade ahead of free agency I will say on Levine you mentioned the ball in his hands what's always intriguing about Levine like I'm talking five years ago so this is old news like way old news irrelevant news this is not a relevant thing now please everybody understand this there was a little bit of intrigue and Denver about how Levine would fit on their team five years ago four or five years ago not now the nuggets are not doing anything with their team now and the thinking was we have yolkich and we have Murray in a role where he's the third option and all he's got to do is finish plays when our best players are on the court take all the decision making out of his hands cut for dunks he's a good cutter run around for threes if you have the ball and you're making decisions it's secondary late in the shot clock and you can just in a pinch do stuff and that's like that's the filly fit particularly with an defensive anchor behind him I agree with you I wouldn't do it yeah that I don't don't think it would work offensively it's that the benefit he would provide offensively would not be enough to make up for the defensive problems it would create totally understand and like that but that's that's the template offensively for Levine like Sacramento's on my list is a sneaky fun just because I just don't think they're going to hit the next level if they're starting herder Barnes Keegan Murray at two three four I just don't think that's good enough as high as I am on Keegan Murray who's going to be very he's already good he's going to be very good and they can you know again December or January 15th Barnes herder and one of Moncker Trey Liles get you to the money you're going all in on offense that you're not going to stop anybody at that point building around Fox to bonus and Levine but in terms of decision making he becomes a third option he has a passing big man hub who can free him up for cuts back door dunks handoff threes and a point guard in Fox who's the guy um I think that's a very smooth offensive fit they owe a pick to the Hawks but they can get around that and have enough stuff to trade I again given the money that they already also bonus the money that Levine is making the defense issues I don't think I would do it if I were them but but I would be very surprised if they did not at least have like an internal text chain going about like hey what do you think about this is this something we should do they did they cross your mind at all they did not cross my mind it does make some sense for the reasons you outlined Barnes is a little bit earlier than January 15th because he was his was an extension they can trade him uh December 30th I think you got to really believe in King Murray's defensive potential is a wing defender or your ability to find someone else to to slot into that spot for it to make sense but I that's not as bad as some of the ideas that I think I think will be out there oh thank you but Toronto yeah do Toronto because I'm very I've talked about Toronto with Levine before and if the last time whenever the Bulls were in the news for whatever reason I mentioned Toronto as a spot that fits some of the criteria I'm talking about like no you won't be a primary decision maker defenders all around him depending on who goes out in the trade what trade did you actually build yeah Toronto fits that in terms of they have all but one of their own just this year's protected pick to San Antonio which I think extinguishes this year so 2026 it goes to 2026 so that does complicate things a little bit but if you're getting Zach Levine you're probably sending out that pick to San Antonio this year given that's relatively lightly protected I think it's still trade 28 and 30 like that's enough they have enough draft equity to get in a game that I don't think is going to be as frothy as the Bulls fans hope it might be and similar to Damian Luller one of the nice things they have is a lot of salary that they can cobble together that is not very long term very Trent jr in the last year of his contract Chris Boucher with one year beyond this left on his deal that he is young who's not playing for them in the last year of his contract that is close enough as a Matt salary match for Levine that Toronto doesn't push into the luxury tax Chicago says a little money gets tremendous cash flexibility going forward and then gets some level of picks is the real return here yeah Trent Boucher fat is 38 and a half million big bamboo and get a couple picks and in Chicago fans aren't going to be excited by that fine like I'm sorry you know again the raptors need shooting and roving shooting and explosive shooting and ball handling so badly around Scotty Barnes and if it's like a glove there and I think their team is just okay I think they know their team is just okay it always scares me a little bit building trades like this with a team that already has so many major long-term decisions hanging over at said with see outcome and it'll be and Trent all potentially heading into free agency this coming summer it's just a lot it's a lot of balls in the air I agree that there's an interesting there's an interesting fit to the other question we haven't talked about like what do the Bulls want it's a kind of a like you hear a lot of different things around the league do they want to rebuild or are they actually looking for players that can help them win I use win loosely they're not winning but help them win now I don't know I don't know the answer to that question Miami the the team that keeps not getting all the guards that hit the market you know they have 47 million dollars of tradable salary and Kyle Lowry and Duncan Robinson both of whom are very relevant to their team Dr. Robinson is playing great check out Dr. Robinson's three-point rate this year by the way it's down to like 65% sticking a lot of twos by his standards you know and they've got picks to trade my gut says they would not trade hero for Levine I think they would just view that as if Zach Levine is better than Tyler hero and I said this about Bradley he's not better enough to justify the increased salary he makes like 15 million dollars a year more and other stuff you might have to attach to Tyler hero to entice the Bulls to do this so I think it would have to be kind of a poo poo platter of Lowry Robinson picks again Butler Adebayo a dribble handoff passing big both elite defenders third option offensively I think Miami will kick the tires I just don't know that they're interested enough and the Bulls will be interested enough on what they have did you think about them at all I mean to me them and the nicks are in the same boat where why am I going for Zach Levine now when I know that Donovan Mitchell could be a possibility as soon as next summer and that may influence the timing of this trade and cause it to drag out into next summer even if the Bulls are listening now because you know the market is just not going to be what it is when that Donovan Mitchell situation is resolved the only other team because they must come up by law in every episode of the low post podcast like Houston is in no Oklahoma City's in no New Orleans I don't think Indiana's in no Dallas has looked in the past but they spent their their chips on Kyrie's and no I would guess anyway these are all just educated guesses you know who needs some guards Orlando they've just been so risk averse but there is a world in which they could trade a bunch of stuff for Zach Levine they have picks the Lord that they can trade in addition to like they have to Gary Harris salary false of salary Ingalls of salary Jonathan Isaac Jonathan I don't even know what to me his contract is not guaranteed for this season and next he he's good when he plays he plays 12 minutes a game he's a walking minutes restriction I don't know what to make him and they could still have cap space this coming summer depending on who goes out in the trade the following summer gets a little dice here because if sugs on the team his cap hold kicks it Franz Wagner's cap hold kicks in this is a franchise it's been hesitant to hit the gas but they can't shoot they still can't shoot they are at risk of being a bottom 10 offense for the 12th consecutive season which is a demagio level streak of offensive incompetence but they have real talent at the forward spots and their defense is number two in the league and just I it seems like a little too much too soon but again start the text thread that's all I'm saying Jeff Altman get the text thread going um any thoughts on that before we change gears I'm along those same lines Orlando at least like has reason to feel good about the direction they're going and maybe that's the reason you make this trade because of the fact that like we actually could be competitive if we got Zach Levine in here but uh speaking of not pushing the gas Detroit is still one of the league's worst teams Detroit Detroit can't get out of the garage and they just back the car through the garage door forget stepping on the gas they just forgot to open the garage door and just crash right through their house so if if there starts to feel like some pressure we need to to win and justify the rebuild then you know they've also got Joe Harris James Weismann is some expiring contracts that they could cobble together with some other salary and you know they they also are a team that really could use shooting to unlock the young talent that they have it's well the other young talent is more on ball depending on how much they believe in jade coming off the bench right now that's maybe the difference between them and Orlando let's switch gears we'll quickly chat versus wemby was a letdown last night Oklahoma City blew the doors off the spurs let's use that as an excuse to talk about the thunder who are now seven and four top 10 in both offense and defense seventh in net rating sga is obviously just ridiculous home grid looks really good i've been very impressed with chat home grid on both ends of the floor he is a force on defense at the rim challenging everything obviously they cannot get a rebound on either end of the floor that's kind of baked into they start four wings and a very skinny center this team is feeling really good man they're better than i thought they were going to be jail and williams looks like a tank just barreling into the rim making lay-ups 36 percent on threes everyone wants them to make a trade like go for it win now i don't know like they have the burtan 17 million dollar salary not much more expendable salary than that and i think to sam press these point i mean they have the meet you contract i get you like 25 million outgoing to sam press these point from earlier in the season in his magma mopis press conference it's like i need more information before i trade anybody out of like my top seven guys like i just i need more information about josh giddy i just need more information but this team they're better than i thought they would be i thought they were gonna be like a 44 45 win team i think they're gonna be better than that i think the optimist will be proven right what has impressed you about or what what is your sort of early glimpse at okay see yeah i think one of the questions that we had when we talked about them in the pre-season my projections were lower on them even than that is how seriously is this team going for it this year or they still still seeing this as a development consolidation year and i think a couple of you know some of the decisions that we've seen so far suggest they are trying to win games right now the first of those was obviously playing chad home green almost exclusively at center like i didn't see all of last night's game because it's back that i got out of hand but coming into that he played like one minute with the big jail in williams they did not play together last night unless it was in garbage time i stopped watching yeah so that's a win now move is compared to what we're seeing with san Antonio where they're playing victor women yama largely at power forward except when they try to win in the fourth quarter and then he plays center and weirdly does way better so then the other element of it is how many of these guys were gonna be on scholarship in their rotation trainman isn't playing luxury poker chefs he after coming back from injury isn't playing was when jane was the one young guy who was playing but now with kenrich williams returning he was out of the rotation last night was playing in their glee game is we're recording this podcast an early tip-off time this is all indicating to me like okay the time for focusing on development is over the time for winning is now and for all the same reasons we talked about with minnesota the opportunity is very much there for them to be a top four seed in the western conference if they stay healthy i mean is there a trade you can find for them is there someone they should get i think it's too early for me to have this conversation even in my own head and like again i can't i can't trade any of my like blue chip young guys i need to know more i think i do anyway if i'm if i'm santa i do but when like who's the guy that's making me break that stance i mean oji anonobe would be the guy who would be a really intriguing fit with this group i mean you know maybe you believe that luden's door is like 85 percent of him so i pay you know twice as much for more than twice as much actually for the 15 percent upgrade but if there was going to be someone that would be the guy the thing i will say on them in matching salary is the 75 percent rule is going to potentially help them true where they you know even if it's only the pratans contract and sekokoshevsky who is in the last year of his deal that still nets you back almost 40 million i think as long as they stay out of the tax by the way they're starters plus 11 per 100 possessions it's becoming a really good lineup it's part of the reason i'm not ready to necessarily trade out of it dorts the guy though dort more than giddy giddy's too interesting and too peculiar as a player and a passer um i i need to see more of him what do you feel about uh slob wizard or is i tried to retcon it from john hollinger's original wizard of slobs for uh josh giddy's he was in the first the first ten things column of the year he was highlighted and they bring him in the game just for that if he's out of the game they'll bring him in for that well not his ability to do it that is a nickname oh i don't like the word slob uh real quickly two minutes on the clippers uh who fell to oh and five with james harden last night um i don't know if you saw any of that game for the first time in the james harden era and what an era it has been um they look like a basketball team that cared so congratulations the clippers did not walk around on offense as ty lu said they ran around on offense and it's cut hard and screen hard they got back door cut dunks and if you want they like kawaii uh ran a pick and roll with zubots they got rasa back door cut dunk uh in the pick and roll with 19 on the shot clock in the second half like that that got kawaii brought the ball up and the first half the right wing had nothing kicked it to harden sprinted up into a random step up screen for james harden that got christian brown switched onto kawaii so you got a good match up there and catapulted harden right away into a pick and roll pj tucker that got him an easy jump shot like they had some zip last night they obviously played super small without any of their big guys and without rust for a lot of crunch time the lineup of terence man kawaii pg norm and harden uh yokage ate it up in the end that lineup is just gonna be too small i think to sustain against some teams but they're figuring they they tried some new stuff more actions um i just think they're gonna find it tough sledding when any two of tucker zubots and rust are on the floor it's just hard to get action going north south at the basket like you want a harden kawaii pick and roll if kawaii's got if harden's got a favorable match up that they can switch onto kawaii but then you can't take that to the rim if two of those guys are on the floor because there's just too many bodies there and so you end up sort of jostling around the wing there are ways to do it but i just wanted to really quickly say everyone's tired about harden talking about the clippers they finally looked like a team that care they lost to denver without jamal murray but denver's a really tough place to win with yokage they actually looked like a team that decided to try to you know as pat rather would say participate in its own rescue did you see anything notable from them well i think the most interesting part was the timing of what you mentioned about them going small you know with mason plumbly out and we said that they didn't get any minutes as the backup center it was pj tucker you know who again did a really good credible job defending nakoa yokage when they were matched up and then kawaii is the center in kind of those completely five perimeter player line-ups at times late in the game and then hours after that the news broke as we're recording this which reported that daniel tice has agreed to a buyout with the pacers and he will be coming to a play backup center well mason plumbly is out of the lineup for a period of time with this mcl sprain is someone who barely played in indiana after his really terrific performance for germany in the world cup this off-season so it's committed as they look last night to play in small ball apparently they're not at least over the course of the 82 game regular season and that is the one like the big picture take away from me here from the clipper's is like part of the justification for doing the harden trade was regular seasons in either to make sure you don't get too low in the standings when kawaii and paul george inevitably miss time they're in enough of a hole now that you know the chances of them getting up into the top four seem very unlikely even if they're as good as you know they thought that they would be when they made this trade yeah they finally again last night looked like they knew they were in a hole and like can we start building a ladder or something to climb out of it and we do something like that kawaii play i mentioned when he set that step up step up screen for harden that's the dialectic built into the team now is they're going to have to give the ball to harden more and tylu is talked about wanting to do that and if kawaii is on the court with him and pg's on the paul george has been by by the way their best player this season and easily easily and their best on ball player which has been really interesting because you've mentioned how much kawaii needs the ball to be effective but you know it's been pg who's been the best decision maker and and sore in that role and that's the dialectic is the more harden has the ball the more those guys if they don't commit to doing stuff like that random step up screen and slip to the basket and keep the ball moving those guys get marginalized to the corners and the wings and it's an effort to keep them involved when they're just standing there they're just waiting to get passes from harden you can build an offense like that but that those plays they got a bottle because it's a way to get a little bit of everything at the same time and not just build the entire box out of james harden that's enough clippers talk we're gonna bring in mo to kill to talk about the rest of the rookies kevin pelton we covered a lot of ground my friend thank you sir thanks for having me all right let's bring in a new guest of fresh voice to talk about some of the other rookies on some of the sad sack teams in the mbi i am nothing if not a benevolent host i want to shine spotlights on the orlandos and the charlots and the tois of the world mote the kill former video coordinator for the los angeles clippers which means you are personally cursed uh you can hear him on the athletic podcast you can watch his video uh video series one mo thing which is a very enthusiastic video series about something that happened in basketball this week mo how are you sir i'm doing great i didn't know i was personally cursed by taking the job of the clippers i i think that i'm personally cursed by having attended many los angeles clippers now we're recording this on tuesday morning i should say so james hardens fifth game with the clippers is in about 12 hours or something and maybe maybe we've they'll beat the nuggets and everything will be fine i will talk about that game in a later segment okay i wanted to go rapid fire through i know see i know you are one of the people mo who is watching charlotte and watching detroit throw the ball in the general direction of the hoop and watching anthony black crack the magic starting lineup here in there because of entry so i wanted and your expert so i i want to go through early first impressions of some of these rookies with you are you ready i'm ready to roll jack we're going to go in a completely random order that makes no sense uh brandon miller the number two pick of the charlotte hornets thirteen points a game 44 percent shooting 28 percent from three has been starting for the charlotte hornets recently with terry was your out miles bridges is coming back uh imminently that will be an interesting lineup choice gordon hayward is a fantastic trade candidate playing very well somebody should please trade for him the hornets are three and six with the ninth best offense in the mba and the thirtieth best defense in the mba i either worst um i have liked the brandon miller experience so far despite that 28 mark from three um look scoot has barely played so it's far too early to even begin the premature process the pre pre premature process of litigating this decision with the number two pick but i i like what i've seen from him as a complimentary multi-positional wing guy long on defense works hard um a little tentative offensively with the ball but i've liked what i've seen so far what have you liked or disliked no i mean i'm i'm with you like look he's getting good looks the shots just aren't falling like it's just like i feel like there's gonna be a run where everything's gonna come together and he's gonna hit shots and things like that his three point percentage obviously below 30 i think he's a better shooter than that that's gonna get a lot better i think just over time you know we're still in the early part of the season and some of this stuff is weird for these guys as rookies you know they're used to playing you know during the early part of the college season it's three games in a row and then that's it for like a week practice all that stuff it's a little bit different now in the nba level right and everything you're new town each night and what an adjustment period for all that so i think his shots will fall eventually what i love about him though zachin this is gonna sound a little bit weird he just moves like a basketball player glides almost at times you know and i see stuff where there are some possessions where he'll get the rebound go coast to coast and it's just kind of smooth and it's it's almost i want to say like pretty it's definitely pleasing you see why he has named paul george as his favorite player and inspiration because paul george is a boss and be an extremely glidey player um yeah i mean he just looks the part man like he's long smooth they've put him on a lot of really elite ball handlers like jailin bronson where i got to guard him uh kyrie you got to guard him and maybe switch on to luka now and then and like look he's getting hung up on screens now and then like rookies do but he's game for that and has all the tools for it offensively it's just kind of like he's he doesn't get to run with the ball all that often nine pick and roll for 100 possessions this is a little mellows show and then it's gordon hayward's show and then somewhere down the line it can be randon miller show typically that means he's spotting up off the ball attack a close out and and he's he's kind of go to his like catch fake one dribble pull up and eventually those will turn into more drives and more kicks but the pull up is it looks nice like it's he's like he's the shooting is as advertised like i think look 13 a game four rebounds he's careful with the ball he doesn't turn it over he already looks like a solid nba role player with a position and size and defensive want to that every good team is going to need and that's like the floor 10 games in yeah and like what you're talking about like the one dribble pull up to the mid range like when he gets to the elbow it's it's almost automatic like it just looks so fluid it's so perfect when he gets there but there's the other thing too is every now and then he just explodes like against washington he nearly put gafford he almost dunked daniel gafford through the floor of whatever the wizards arena is called i mean it was it was he went after it and i thought he was gonna get it and he was like way above the rim it was why it was to the point where it was so good i don't care that he missed it to me he dunked on yeah like just put it on a poster already like it was so pretty in the way it was and it kind of just happened out of nowhere when you're watching the floor of the game it gets kicked him in the corner he attacks the closeout drives baseline and just bang him and i was like oh my like i jumped up and that's those things where it's like it's there and i think the one thing that's a little bit unfortunate like you alluded to is he just doesn't get a lot of opportunities with the ball and i think that's a tough part for him as a rookie especially when he's coming from where he had the ball all the time in alabama and now he's got to adjust to that and i think kind of figure his flow with all of those things i don't know that any franchise has as much writing on a draft pick as charlotte does on brand and miller and not because of the scoot thing but because of all of the draft whiffs that we will not list here of the michael jordan era and because in the past five years they have spent top 15 to 20 picks including lottery picks on kai jones who's gone james book night news option was declined and miles bridges who's obviously um pleaded no contest of some very serious felony domestic violence charges and then has this new sort of um protective order violation thing hanging over his head um they need this to work out and so far it's working out and look i don't know where the hornets are really going medium-term long-term but lamello brandon miller mark williams is interesting steve clifford's a really good coach what have you thought of while we're here what have you thought of um lamellos play so far this season he's one of the more i i am fascinated by him i've written a lot about him already pre-seasoned into the season i'm curious for your take i'm coming in cold i don't know what you're gonna say yeah no it's i need to kind of just figure out like hey style doesn't matter as much and i think that's kind of the stuff i'm hoping for from him and i just don't know if we'll ever get that like he just likes the flash and it's it's fun to watch and it's exciting but it's just sometimes it's you know i just need you to go in games man you gotta do some of those things and and some of that stuff i mean 30th and defense their point of impact defense isn't good i mean it's just like it's just you gotta care about that and you gotta try way more and he had a big stop against indiana where he came up with that steel and that stuff i need more of that and i need to see i need to see him care on that and a lot more and i just need him to start he's also to me is a lot of style no substance but i think he can be substance i think he can provide that stuff i think he's got the skill to think it's just he's got to want to do it and i think that's kind of the thing for me with lamello i think his defense has regressed so far this season from where it was in limited action last year to the point i mean steve clifford before the season told me in an interview like lamello cares about defense he wants to be a good defense player he's not he said something like guys who just go for steals wildly just kill your defense and he's not one of those guys and i kind of think so far the season he's been one of those guys um and offensively i've always considered lamello just kind of a carnival and like the step from carnival and you can win with a good carnival in the mba like a guy who shoots a lot of threes makes a lot of passes and hit heads and all that you can win like 38 games they have won like 38 games with a good offense when it slows down and you get in the muck of okay it's a half core game i gotta find a mismatch i gotta i gotta carve into the paint on picking rolls change pace get to the rim read the layers of defense not just kick it out right away and keep like that's where i'm watching him and i think he's actually made progress this year his drives are way up his shots at the rim are way up he's getting fouled more the steve nash dribble which steve clifford mentioned specifically to me is something he did not do he's now doing quite a lot he's starting to slow down get guys on his back and and kind of try to read the defense it's it's he's not finishing at the rim he's like sub 50 at the rim which is abysmal but i like the process more from him on offense and i like the process less from him so far on defense right and i think that's like if we can just get a little bit more intensity on the defensive end of just solid just be solid don't gamble i think we'd start to see it we feel a little bit better i don't know if that will lift him out of 30 in the defense of rating but i think we'll feel a little bit better of what we're seeing from him let's move to the uh detroit pistons who are not very good um 23rd on offense 20th on defense uh 22nd in net rating uh they are two and nine they've lost eight in a row and they have two rookies that i want to talk about market sasser and as star tomsen i will let you pick which one you want to start with mo i want to start with market sasser but zach to be honest with the pistons i this is is this can i air grievances like this is festive it's time almost like i have grievances with pistons is it is it that like they have no shooting well you know what is making threes you can laugh you can laugh at the playing all the centers together he's making threes is it that cade is cade shooting line like clockwork is 41 31 47 and he's struggling like what's your degree is it jade and ivy being relegated to no minutes what's happening mo i don't understand how in this day and age in the mba where we spend so much time talking about you can't have two non-shooters on the court that they start four non-shooters and i know some of this is bugged on if it's just her stewards the only guy that starts in their lineup that can shoot right killion haze is shooting 32.5 and that's up from him but killion haze drives everybody nuts in the fact that he's getting the minutes he's getting a sore times and we're gonna talk about not shooting it well at all and he was known not to be a shooter shooting 15 percent cade you talked about shooting 29 percent when it's whether it's during or before he got hurt badly those guys aren't sure how are you starting four non-shooters in the nba in 2023 what what is your alternative plan who should they mark starting start mark as sasser said of killion haze i was bird or anybody just they have shooting on the bench zach it kills me well a lot of their guys have been hurt like mathy morris has been hurt allerberg's just played his first game but don't have it just still hurt um so sasser 10 points a game three assists three rebounds and assist eternal for a show of 34 to 9 which i quite like in a rookie um he's shooting 49 overall 43 percent on threes and he has a sweet pull-up jump shot a soft soft buttery runner in the lane doesn't get to the rim it's fine he has five free throws the entire year um a little bit shoot first uh but but that's but that's fine too because he's making shots on a team that cannot make any he's already shown i wrote this in my column that's right he's already showing me and he's like he's got that herky jerky like he has such a quick burst he goes from zero to a hundred and back to zero it's like his body's moving in different directions at the same time like he's hard for guys to corral i've already seen enough or like i would i would i see no harm in starting him over killing his yeah i just don't i just don't understand not to but i think also the offense flows a little bit better i think it helps you start him with kade you know kade gets a little bit more spacing when he gets to attack downhill and then it's a guy who you kick it out to and then either he gets a wide open look or he drives and i think you get a little more fluidity in your offense a little more flow with all of those things i think there's a lot of stuff with sasser that you know is worthy of more than the 21 minutes a game he's getting and i think he needs to to really get that opportunity to play and it's just a turnover numbers for a rookie and it's 11 games that's insane for a rookie like i at least have you know by now 15 turnovers like there's just so many he does a great job of taking care of the ball and everything with that he doesn't really kill you that much defensively like i think you know i think listen he's fine he's fine he's six two six seven wingspan like he's he's going to be undersized against some twos and obviously threes but kade's size gives you sort of a lineup flexibility to play a smaller guard next to now this really this is really about kade like i've been a kade believer the last 20 to 25 games of his rookie year i thought he hit a groove of finding the right balance of getting into the paint just kind of wiggling in there pivoting faking creating for others creating for himself then he had the shin thing this basically all of last season is we're early into this season he's for this whole thing to amount to anything he's got to become i mean look all nba whatever like that's a high bar he's just got to become a better player than he has shown because like the de jade and ivy thing has gone sideways haze is is whatever i love durin i think durin is going to be a big time center in the nba but they need something to tie it all together and that was intended to be kade and if kade's just okay i mean this team as is is so raw and so far away from any sort of competency on offense in particular um but like if you squint on the right nights and it's like kade's running the show sasters making threes durin's rim running as sartamson who we're going to talk about is doing like literally everything um you can see like the outlines of something but then the outlines kind of fade into oblivion under the under the cloud of nine thousand miss jumpers in a row um yeah i i it's it's it's gonna take a while uh for the pistons yeah i mean it's a little it's the thing about kade because when you talk about that run he had at the end of his rookie season i mean there was a game against brooklyn i don't remember if they won or lost that game but he made so many plays down the stretch of that game where i was like this is kade this is the guy they need this is the one that's as you should tie it all together and this is this is what they're making like he looked like he looked like and i don't say i don't i don't want just to be taken the wrong way he looked like jv luka in in in those 20 games and i i emphasis on jv like not like i'm not saying he's gonna he even in that stretch looked like he was gonna become seventy percent of the basketball genius that luka dantages but he has that style of bruising slow decelerating inside out passing he incised to hit the floaters and the turnarounds which is what really makes luka unguardable he just hasn't found that groove again yeah and i think that's the thing the the shin injury i think really set him back you know there's a lot of talking to summer with how he played with usa basketball i wish he actually played on the team and was part of them i mean granted they were quite disappointing in the in the tournament they could have used him but like there was a lot of talk of how great he's looking at things and we just i haven't felt like we've really seen it this everybody can i think it all comes back to it's just not a lot of spacing and as you said like with dana vidges out bergs just got back like there's a question of like they need to put shooting on the floor so he has those spaces to attack like it's one thing when you when you do the drive and kick and you're kicking out to you know killing in haze and he puts up a shot it's it's that doesn't end up being a an assist and that hurts you and i think those are the things like we want i want to see him get those opportunities with those guys can i give you just a detroit stat that i well to your point about the spacing by the way the starting lineup is minus 11 per 100 possessions with an offensive rating that is just incredibly bad um this is the stat that blew my mind free throws detroit is 30th and opponent free throw rate they foul everybody all the time and they don't get to the line very much themselves like let me go let me dispense with these fancy stats and see just how many raw free throw attempts are they minus every game they are minus nine free throw attempts per game they average 20 a game and their opponents average 29 a game it's like it's like they're basically starting it's like they have to play the first six minutes of the game with four guys i mean you just can't win with i don't know that the last time i mean it's not like i check this particular stat regularly that is enormous like i don't remember the last time i saw a free throw differential that big for a team i mean that's that's a wild stat i actually never thought to even really look at that like i now i'm going to start paying attention in that way you know in game you might but looking at it overall like yeah they're basically giving nine points to the other team almost the start of every game you know to the course of the game they're gonna get nine points somewhere and that's brutal now i'm gonna get excited all right i don't think i have ever rooted for a young player to develop a serviceable jump shot more than i am going to root for us art Thompson to develop a serviceable jump shot because this dude can do everything else at a high level already here are his stats as a rookie on a bad team who does not get the ball very much 11 points 10 and a half rebounds he's averaging a double double three and a half assists as an off ball option 1.2 steals 1.9 blocks he's already sniffed around a five by five game he might be like one of the best candidates in the league already for the vaunted five by five game which has become my mini obsession he is however shooting 40 percent four of 26 on threes 47 percent on twos but the cutting the rebounding the passing field that he has kind of kind of just like in the flow of the offense he makes these great connecting passes he reads the game really really well he is going to be a monstrous defensive player monstrous i just the basketball gods have got to give him a serviceable jumper because if they do this dude is going to be really really like all star level good yeah if they don't if they don't it's just like then you got to do the thing where you figure out how like okay can we use them as a screener do we get a stretch five so we can finagle our team this way the day becomes a puzzle piece that you got awkwardly fit can we can we get him a shoot can we do can we do they have a shooting coaching to try i don't know what they should at this point you know and i think it's really important with what they have i mean that's that's going to be the difference maker for him and it doesn't have to be he doesn't need to be a 40 percent three-point shooter it doesn't need to be you know it just needs to be enough to the point where it's like hey we can keep him on the court because we all know what happens you know the playoffs are a long way away from the business like long long way but the point is a long way right yeah and and just like that we know what happens at that point you know and everything he does on the other end of the court is so massive for them you know everything he brings to them you know the rebound the fact he leads all the work he's with rebounds by about almost two rebounds two whole rebounds the next guy i think is victor webinama and he's at eight and a half or something like that i mean he's right just that's impressive for my guy that's the three man and i think that's the things you're getting from him and the ability for him to be able to grab and go from that and then they're create for everybody and and make things happen like just think about it this way then cade gets to sprint down the court and gets to play you know attack a rotating defense coming up and bringing the ball up the court but it's all going to come down to that shot sack and that's going to be the most important thing for him i mean you knew i'm not sitting here watching overtime elite like i just read what the ref nix say and i watch some clips here and there so you know what he's pigeonholed as he comes into the league right like defense effort all sorts of athletic plays um i didn't realize the amount of feel he has like there'll be moments in the game where the ball will swing to him and he'll like improvise like a fake handoff like quarterback keep her hand off fake it totally fool the defense one dribble makes the next pass and not to pass the defense expects the one that's like ahead of their rotations like to skip the link in the chain to the next i'm like damn that is advanced nba basketball if this like he could be a star if he can figure out the shooting piece yeah and that's and that's gonna be a big one and it's and that's the most important one small complaint i have about him and it's and it's you know me just being the somewhat of a jerk that i am is he does have a tendency to over dribble like there was a possession with the the bulls you know one of those things he gets to rebound he brings the ball up the court he tries to drive on levine levine shuts it down doesn't give the ball up i think durin comes to set the ball screen he attacks off the ball screen drives into the lane goes against vu she's ball's been his hand the entire possession and he turns the ball over like there's a little bit of a tendency of at a certain point i think i need him to understand like okay i didn't get the first attack let's get us in offense and get going and and and get us moving i think that stuff that will come in time again rookie kind of just a little bit spreading out his wings here a little bit and trying to figure out what he can't do but i think that's probably the one thing i'm besides the shooting that i'm a little bit like i want to keep an eye on can we talk about the wizards nobody's watching the wizards what nobody should nobody should watch the wizards i watch the wizards i want to talk i want to talk about belal kulabali who was the seventh pick in the draft the wizards traded two second round picks to move up and draft him kind of a big swing they got some intel i think that some other teams were going to try to trade up or get him he was victor when banyama's teammate in france and if there's a reason to watch the wizards both as a wizards fan or just a person a human person who somehow has ended up watching a wizards game he's the best reason um now i say that he's averaging eight points a game he is shooting 50 percent he's shooting 44 percent of 360 something from the corners and kind of like asar toppson he came in with this like he was you heard um like almost bruno kabuglo level like he's a couple years away from being like a year away not quite two years away from being two years away maybe like a year away from being a year away like a less years fewer years away he's much less raw than he was made out to be he's shooting it well now the release is slow and he's wide-ass open that's fine he's taking the shots and he's making them he can catch and go off the dribble he looks kind of calm and poised as he does it now he he's got to learn to make the next pass in that situation and that's fine um they let him handle the ball in summer league he looked okay doing that they've let him do it in garbage time of some games in the real real season looks good looks okay doing that defensively he's as advertised super long they put him on everyone from the mellow ball to pass galsiacum now pass galsiacum lit up the wizards in a just classic hashtag so wizards fall from ahead loss last night um but that wasn't all on kula bali i i i've been impressed just because i was prepared for um deer in the headlights kind of rookie uh and he has not been that at all what have you noticed from him because this is by the way this is a big deal for the wizards the wizards are clearly playing for both this draft and we're like six months away from people starting to talk about which team is going to position itself for cooper flag in 2025 um the wizards are very well aware like we don't have the guy we missed out on wen banyama they were one ping pong ball away from wen banyama i was in the room watching their poor torture assistant gm realized that they almost got wen banyama and then they didn't um but even though kula bali is not projected to be the guy he if he's good and i like a really good complimentary player like okay that's step one two finally we've reset what have you seen from him yeah i think the idea that he's a little more cooked than we thought is actually and i mean that in a positive way not raw uh as we as we thought is it's true because i think you know i watched a lot of wen b's games when he was playing with metro 92 i think most of us did and kula bali did look raw at that point you saw the flashes and stuff but you didn't see this stuff he's shooting it way better than i ever thought he would come and by the way he could fall off it's it's not a high attempt rate and like he is just wide open like some teams are guarding him with centers when mu scholars at the five or gallo who's i love how gallo by the way he's just slid all the way up the positional spectrum he's a three then he's a four now he's coming in playing back up five so they're putting wings on those guys and centers on kula bali but like he's making shots and that's going to change at some point somebody's going to look at the scouting report at you know the stats 20 games in it if he's still shooting at this level 60 percent from the corners and things like that they're going to say like hey we got to keep him we got to at least be a little closer to him so that might change and all that stuff but he is shown so it's more proficiency than we thought and i think we were ready for in that regard and i think you know the stuff he said about his defense was really solid he's a little bit skinny i think that's where pascal killed him was in the post last night and really kind of worked him over and it was even scottie barns took him down a few times into the post but on the perimeter his defense is solid like i think there's a lot there like with all those things it's going to be a little bit of a project i think he's on the right track my concerns with this team is just you know that game against toronto he goes in four minutes in the fourth quarter or first quarter i don't think he touches the ball you know i besides maybe inbounding it i don't think he had a touch and i think that's one of those things with this with this team his development is going to matter he's going to be really important for them he's not i don't know if he's going to get those opportunities that we need him to get with the ball so that we can see those things him make the next pass him make the right read off of the other things and then on top of it a lot of times he's just standing in the corner now wide open there are times i wanted to find a way to cut find an angle find a lane to cut to the basket and make a move i'll tell you this internally they're really impressed with him and they agree he's kind of ahead of where they thought he would be in terms of his feel i don't mind the level of non-involvement just because i'm okay with with with small baby steps for him and this is just gonna be the reality of of playing with Jordan pool and kyle kusma on a team that is two and eight twenty second in offense twenty six in defense on on pace for i i have not bothered to look it up because i don't care enough i haven't seen a defensive rebounding rate this bad you know really but they cannot get any rebounds i mean they're dead last by like a significant amount in defense of rebounding uh but kula bali thumbs up so far you want to talk about kiantha george or anthony black you're pick let's go with kiantha george we've been on the east coast for quite a bit let's let's let's let's let's say right let's let's hit the utal jazz kiantha george seven points five assists that's the that's the best part forty six assists 17 turnovers talking similar to sassar like oh oh for a rookie that's good and for a team that just cannot stop turning the ball over uh with all of these shoot first guards this is the price of the mic on the trade they're paying the sort of delayed price of oh we don't have a regular point guard they're last in turn over eight three and seven on the season sixteenth in offense twenty eighth in defense their offense is killing their defense um but a bright spot i think despite some bad shooting numbers i've still would consider kiantha george bright spot would you or are you concerned by the 38 percent 31 percent on threes no i i consider him a big bright spot and you know look they they move them into the starting line of the last two games and they're offensive rating with him in the starting lineup i have it written down 121.8 in forty that's just 43 minutes but that's him in this you know that's what happens right like that's the thing with him in the starting unit and i think that's a big number now with that might change or what not i just think what he brings to the table he does something i thought i had a preconception of him coming in i don't watch a ton of college basketball through the course of the season i try to catch up draft time and and try to do homework in the summer and and catch up but my conception of him was yelled he's another gunner and when the jazz drafted him i said gosh they're gonna have another gunner with Clarkson with everybody that they got like this is gonna be a bit difficult he's come in and the ball flies around the court it moves it doesn't stick in his hands he's making the right rotations he's making the right passes you know he had a pass uh i think it was against Memphis he's coming off a double drag john collin slips and he's going from his right crosses over to his left right off the bounce throws it right the college college doesn't shoot i know this i know the exact pass collings was almost at the rim and it's a side it's a sidearm lefty slingshot i mean it is a slingshot it hits him right in the hands it was it was so good that i was like i thought he was right handed like i had to go just to double check because that's his offhand that he's making that pass with and i'm looking at it just going like i watched that that was more impressive than the eleven assists he had in that game like that blew me away and i think that's the thing when you're watching him like he's bringing that to the jazz and that's exactly what they need right now you know you talked about it they trained my connellies trying to find that point guard now this is two games as a starter i don't know what's going to happen when everybody gets healthy and how things kind of work out walker kesler's out uh for a while so this might be the starting unit for a bit let's see how it all flows but like man i don't know if they can take him out of the starting lineup at this point he's bringing flow to their office i don't think they should um because the passing has been good he's a willing pull up shooter teams are daring him to shoot he only shot so so in college um but i like the form and i like his he's got just good craft to change a pace as a good first step good lob passer like he's found john some nice lobs kesler's a good lob catch when he's healthy i look the shooting we'll see but i'm very impressed with the passing and like you said this team just needs an organizer who's just not throwing the ball all over the gym i do think mo i took the under on the jazz coming into the season mostly because of this this exact thing we're talking about the guards and the turnovers if they continue to be like a non you know like 12th to 15th in the west i think this becomes a really interesting team to watch because you look at what they have george is pretty good like i don't know what he's going to be he's pretty good we haven't seen either of their other first round picks at all hendrich's and sense of art marketing is really really good yes voted and most improved player last year can shoot the hell out of it it feels like we're almost seeing the peak of larry market it like and i mean that as as a play initiator and creator for others it just kind of hasn't he is averaging 1.6 assists in 1.7 turnovers a game he may be and this is totally fine an all-star who doesn't ever crack all nba and so that's a good player it's not like a great great player kesler got off to a horrible start this season and he began looking like himself before getting injured and even while starting off slowly opponents are still only shooting 44 percent at the rim against him which is very good um they have a million draft picks we all know that um their own draft picks may be the most valuable of the million draft picks they own but they've got cleveland picks minnesota picks up the wazoo you just look at them and i i would just love to have a couple of drinks with their front office it's like what do you actually think you have here remember they tried to get drew holiday that was a real thing i don't know how hard they tried they tried fairly hard what what do you think you have here how how worried are you that you don't have the the foundational pc but you got some interesting like what does it amount to it's too early to have that conversation but they're an interesting team to keep an eye on yeah i mean i think there's going to be a lot of interest in a lot of their guys i mean you know this is see how it flows like there's going to be teams that might need a scoring punch am i trying to make take a flyer on clarks and things like that like there's they're they're going to be in a very interesting position come february because i think they will be right around you know 13 14 in the west and i think this is going to be one of those things like hey we need to make sure we get the young guys rec reps uh you know tat hendrichs needs to get minutes at some point you know just get them out of the g league and into the the the run with the jazz and get him some mba experience like it'll be interesting to see where they go with that stuff because yeah they're they're not that different to me than what the spurs were before they got victor webinama a lot of interesting guys but not the guy and i think they need to find themselves find a way to get the guy for them whether it's through the draft trades whatnot uh we know they have a definitely a large cupboard full of assets if they want to try to make a move and on george it does feel like it's it's sometimes kind of all or nothing for him just in terms of role like he's either on the ball running the offense or he's in the corner while the other guys run the offense and there's just not a lot of connectivity from one tip which is fine is their young guards a lot of strange pieces but thumbs up to him so far um let's go to the orlando magic because they're five and four with an over two defense in the mba um and anthony black has started to crack the rotation he started a couple of games with markel faults out gary heres has been injured so there's been bench minutes for him um shooting weld you know he's only five of ten on three is people are gonna give him that shot interesting player big defense first hungry rebounder smart passer and cutter just the magic just don't have any shooting really anywhere um and he fits right into that but he makes winning basketball plays and he has peaked he has done enough to peak my curiosity about how he fits with a magic team that long-term needs to figure out who are the guards on our team going for it because we know who the forwards are we have a pretty good center for you know for now and probably for later too i love one del carte june is a very good player he's hurt all the time he's very good many plays sugs is kind of starting to happen uh which is which is really exciting but long-term the guard thing is do we have it in house or are we gonna have to rush the process here and try to trade some stuff for an outside guard anthony black looks like he's gonna get some chances to give them some information on an mba court what have you thought so far i think he is the perfect example of what a connector is gonna look like in a few years like i think he's a great connector for them and that means i don't think he can be a lead guard for them in terms of what they need but he does a great job look he goes stands in the corner doesn't shoot a ton of threes you talked about it five out of ten you know it's you know but he's gonna take them when they're there but he's also gonna make the right pass the swing pass the good the great pass the sanitones spurs thing you know he's he's going to make the right reach he cuts he does all those things he feels the game really well you need those guys those guys are really important for your team in general in the in the long run but they need he's not going to be the guy that i'm going to feel kind of going like here run our office you know and i think this team has some interesting playmakers i think they get a lot of playmaking from pile up on general i think he he does a good job with that stuff but they still need to find the guard as you're as you're talking about i don't know if it's on their roster actually this is a team i think that's uh a great landing spot should portland decide to move off of uh malcom brogdon like that's that's a good brogdon team for them like i think that would help them massively and i think this is a good i think he's a good pairing with brogdon in terms of continuing to connect and keeping the ball flying and moving is their defense legit man it's that i i think so i'm nervous to say fully commit and say yes but i i think so what are they do what are they doing what because you look at them they don't have sort of a classic rim protector right um they have all these feisty guards they have good size all crossed but they have good size in every position they have guys who compete defensively in every position is that just all it is is there anything schematically that's interesting that you've noticed i haven't seen anything that's blown me away schematically from them but i and i feel like it's kind of like oh they try hard so it's a cop out answer but i think it's one of those things where it's like they compete really hard and then when jonathan is it comes in like you know it's a whole other level of of defense of intensity rises up and he brings a lot of juice in terms of that side and you know like i feel like as NBA fans we've been robbed with the injuries because he he would have been making all defensive teams and maybe even making a run at uh defense player of the year had he stay healthy at any point in his career because he was just his lane all over the place yeah it's just you just can't stop him and he's making plays where you're just like yeah you shouldn't be able to do that and like he's able to and i think that's that's that's part of their defense itself but i think in general they're all bought in and i think that's a credit we don't talk about him a lot but jim all mostly he's done a fantastic job coaching this team you know it's a first time head coach when he came in he's done a great job kind of just building a culture there they all kind of the vibe is really good with the team they all play hard they all work together like i i just love the vibe of the old Orlando magic in general and i think they bring in the pieces that they need smartly and it works well for them long-time listeners and readers know that i have some sort of weird Orlando magic fetish i just can't ever stop talking about them or thinking about them they're five and four they play tonight so they may be five and five or six and four they will be one of those things there are no ties in the idea they will not be five or one uh by the time this airs um i i think they're worth watching obviously for bancaro and fron's vogner neither of whom is shooting well at all but both of them are very very good players defensively they're first enforcing turnovers that i'm curious if that if they can sustain a top five turnover rate but they're taking care of the glass third in defensive rebounding they just play hard you mentioned Isaac at the beginning of the year they're bringing it they have to be it feels like he'll be on a lifetime minute restriction just it will just always be a minute restriction at the beginning of the year he was just purely part of the bench like kol Anthony movogner Jonathan Isaac Gary Harris blah blah blah just bench mob and then you know staggered starter last couple games they've begun to squeeze him in to some more starter heavy line-ups we've even seen like the bancaro Isaac four five front court i really hope we get to see some some sustained look at what all those different iterations of the magic look like even like fron's isek palo carter let's get crazy and huge i want to see all of it him and sugs sugs is up to 35 on threes he just looks more confident offensively i've always wondered like does he have a position is he's not quite one he doesn't shoot well enough to be a two kind of has to i think he's gonna have to be a combo guard that's fine like you can be that kind of player like market smart is to go to comp if he he just looks a little better offensively like Isaac and sugs are worth your attention in the next 20 to 30 games what are they actually bring it to the table because if one of those guys pops particularly sugs this becomes a pretty interesting team yeah i mean we got to talk about sugs in the sense of like just as toughness as a kid because there's a thing about this what he was such a disappointment his rookie year like there were times where i was like i gosh i don't know like i was really concerned about it i was high coming in high on him coming into the draft and then was you know watching him in these games going like wow that that might be a big mistake and now he's like you said looking more comfortable slowly but surely progressing they need him to make shots in a degree and 35% from three okay but like we probably needs to get that a little bit better probably needs to get that closer to 37 it's hard you know in that sense but teams are going to leave him to go double palo and things like that and on top of that too it's not just standing around for the three-point shot cool when your guy goes to double go cut do something be more than just one thing and i think that's the the idea there with him i think he has a chance to pop i've been very surprised and pleasantly surprised with how he's kind of played this season and i want to see it continue and i think we're progressing that way i this Orlando team's act like i'm excited man like i love watching him you know you're talking about your your fetish with them i love watching him i love watching pylo doesn't i'm gonna do a little bit of an ode to pylo like he's playmaking i think is the thing that surprised me from his first summer league game on and if you go watch this the game right now yeah you go watch his game against Milwaukee there were two plays back to back you know one in the post uh yon is sags off of vogner he kicks it immediately right out to him clean three he gets one in the mid post elbow area you know uh i forget who it was mofogner mo i should always know when the other mo score yes uh mo vogner cuts underneath the basket you know uh behind yon is and he just throws a nice little dime to him for an easy bucket like he's such a willing passer in that sense it goes a long way to keep their offense flowing and things like that like this is a team that really is on the rise you know they're they're they're not far away from being in the play in tournament and being a team that we can kind of start counting on in the playoffs yeah and to your point one of the things i i'd like to go back to Anthony black is that because he's a non-shooter they've used him as a screener in inverted pick and rolls with palo and he can make plays out of that in open space because he's a point guard the problem is everyone will just go under screens on every magic shooter because none of them can shoot and at some point they're going to need some shooting um but he also had a play in that Mexico city game where he was on de jante Murray Anthony black and Murray rejected a pick full speed full blast like a zooming away from the pick an acceleration that 90 percent of NBA defenders are behind the play Anthony black slid his feet stood de jante Murray up swiped down and took the ball and i was like whoa okay okay Anthony black i see that i see that okay we gotta wrap up i'm just gonna say some names you ready? Andre Jackson jr playing for the box who needs some juice uh Jaime hock is junior we're gonna talk about the heat later on later episodes just to do it all jack of all trades it's annoying how heat like he is Jordan Hawkins i just i can't i don't even know how to talk about the pellet he's been thrust into this like heavy usage role because the whole team is hurt zion is making strange post game comments about the program and he's just trying to buy in zions shots are the same pick and roll ball handling volume the same usage rate the same he's just shooting 51.5 percent on twos which for zion is like bad massively low yeah uh and uh and uh to money komara and portland i've enjoyed your work but you can't you just not make enough shots um i just one thing about komara because i one thing i love is just he guards everybody yes you go watch that later game he's on austin rees the anthony davis like it was pretty impressive watching him in that game what to kill what should we look for from you this week what do you got what what do you got anymore things coming out one more i got i got i got a one more thing possibly coming out i have i'm doing uh my own power rankings on youtube uh so i do like a little video power rankings on youtube uh just go search uh it's called the jump ball power rankings if you search that you'll you'll find that and then uh i have some uh i might have an article or two uh drop in this week uh one uh possibly on the athletic very nice yeah you're writing appears here and there it's a picture report before it's appeared at the athletic before this guy look you were in the mba you know the game inside out and it's thank you for coming on and sharing your insight we'd love to have you back if you are willing more to kill thank you sir thank you for having me