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I just wrapped up another episode of Meet the Press, where I interviewed Republican Senator Mitt Romney of Utah and Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. We led the broadcast with former President Trump, setting off alarms about his plans for a second term. He said in a televised town hall this week that he would abuse his power to go after his political opponents, but only quote on day one. This, as the Republican Party, has so far struggled to firm up a resistance to the former president, even as privately top GOP power brokers reportedly vent their frustration with their party's current leader.
I'm sitting here now with Jonathan Martin, senior political columnist and politics bureau chief for Politico. He was just on the Meet the Press panel, and in his latest column, he poses this question, where are all the anti-Trump Republicans? Jonathan, welcome to Post Game. Thank you for having me.
Great to be back here. It's great to have you here. So let's start there. Where are all the anti-Trump Republicans?
What's going on? Resigned to his inevitability, depressed about it, not doing a damn thing to change it. Let's start there. Well, it's such a fascinating point, and you raised so many interesting points about that in your article.
And the fact that they're just not organizing, they're not coalescing around the planet. It's the dog that's not barking. And here it is, December, the Iowa caucuses in the Hampshire primary, are literally, as real-life, would say folks literally month. And you just don't see a sense of urgency about trying to stop Trump.
And you just think about the Senate, not just Romney, but the mainstream of Republican Senate. John Thune, John Cornyn, figures like that. They don't want Donald Trump to be their nominee, let alone the next president. Same for governors, Ryan Campbell and the young kid.
But they don't speak out. I think some because they fear that it's futile, that he's going to be the nominee. It's not worth it. Others because they don't think that they could do much about it.
And I think others still are minding their own political future because they're voters like Trump, and they don't want to imperil their own prospects with their voters. What was interesting because obviously, I just interviewed Senator Mitt Romney, he founded the alarms about the dangers of former President Trump having a second term in office. And yet even he said, he doesn't think anyone's position to stop him. I mean, potentially, a Nikki Haley, he said, but unless the field coalesces around her, from his perspective, it's futile.
Yeah, he was pretty bearish about about the chances of stopping Trump in the primary. Yeah, you know, giving Nikki Haley some hope for an outside shot, but it's difficult. Look, Trump is a figure who's almost bigger than politics. He's a movement figure who's been part of the American celebrity culture over 30 plus years.
He's not a conventional politician, and he's running against conventional politicians. It's a mismatch, right? And he's got a grip on a lot of voters, especially working class voters and voting party, who don't care what he says, don't mind the bomb, ask in fact, they kind of like it. And it's hard to see those folks walking away in the next six weeks.
Well, you talk about the bomb, I mean, this week, he was asked directly by Sean Hannity. He was giving him an offering. You're never going to be a dictator, right? You're going to be American people, right?
Well, yeah, except for day one, you could see Sean Hannity. It's almost like there's this is like a genre that you've seen over the last few years. You know, on the right, we have these conservative figures. I was like, you don't actually believe that Rocco by myself in ISIS, do you come on?
Of course, you've been meant for a little bit. No, no, I actually believe that. Well, no, but you maybe all do some stuff on the first day. Oh my God, we're trying to help you man.
And he says that. And what's notable is you do have like a Liz Cheney, for example, saying, yeah, I think he would try to stay in office beyond the four years that he would be given if he were to be elected. Not only stop short of that. Right.
Because he basically is saying that I'm actually torn on this myself. I think both cases have there. I think Romney's case is that look, he's not actually interested in the job. He basically wants to watch TV and play golf all day.
He doesn't want to be a dictator. He wants to be perceived as a winner, get some revenge and go back to the lengths and play 18. I think Liz Cheney's case. I think it's also compelling, which is you can't dismiss him.
He may be a buffoonish character, but he's not so this would take lightly. And if he does get power again, he's not going to want to give it away. And I think that's sort of the tension, by the way, if we're being totally honest in their public party is that they all have their concerns with Trump, but the level of seriousness, they take the threat. You can see that with Romney and J.D.
Yeah. It's such a great point. That is part of the divide right now in the Republican Party. People who are taking him seriously right now are Democrats.
And I have to say, a couple of months ago, before these series of polls, polling came out for the President, it felt a lot like 2016, when Democrats were taking for granted. Totally. No way that you could win. Now they are pivoting.
You're seeing the President's messaging pivot, including as we talked about on the panel. He's going to be talking a lot about this issue of abortion, particularly in what we're seeing now. And they're making President Biden say the words Donald Trump. I see that just the last few days where President Biden was doing West Coast fundraising swing, and he's in these receptions with donors.
And he's heading Trump directly and saying his name out loud, like multiple times in a way that he was never comfortable doing. And speaking of Joe Biden not being comfortable doing things, you know, this is the challenge. The Democrats know the abortion rights issue is their best political issue. But Joe Biden's never been comfortable with the issue himself at a personal level.
And it's not where sort of his preferred messaging space is to put it mildly. Well, and that's why you see the vice president taking the show. I think one of the things I'll be watching for is to what extent is she out in the coming weeks focused on what's happening in Texas. Let's talk about Hunter Biden.
How big of a one thing that was notable is both Chris Murphy and Senator Romney were very serious about the Hunter and completely dismissed. Abby Lowell, Hunter Biden's attorneys argument that if his name were something else, he wouldn't be charged. Senator Murphy basically said that doesn't hold merit. That's not the case.
Yeah, and what Joe Biden is being would never want this for obvious reason. They're concerned about their son and the risk of relapse. But in some ways, Hunter Biden did take accountability and pled guilty or, you know, there was some kind of accountability for this. That offers Democrats a chance to say, you said that there's two sets of rules.
But look, the president's son got prosecuted by RDOJ and they came up to him aggressively. He is accountable for his crimes in a way that Trump has tried to avoid accountability. Okay, Biden doesn't want that. But you can see that kind of messaging next year.
Now, I was thinking about this yesterday. In a different world, Joe Biden could use this moment as an offer of his own to say, I got two wars abroad. I'm trying to govern the country. And I've got a son who's facing sort of real legal challenges.
You know, I'm going to have the best possible final year of my presidency and then turn it over because I can do all those things. I just mentioned, but I can't also go on a campaign. You know, I think there are. Fascinating.
There's Democrats, I think in this country who would love for him to use that offer him. You know, I know it's not going to happen. No. But in a different world, I think the opening is there.
Yeah. Well, and you do have some Democrats who are saying, now is the time if you're going to make this decision, you have to make it now. But it's getting really late to make that decision. Let me ask you just finally about Senator Romney saying he wants to see Senator Manchin for president talk to me about.
You and I both agree. We kind of putting the odds on the now. Exactly. But also this idea that no labels is making this argument.
Yes, there's absolutely a place where a third party candidate is serious. Look at the polling. We've never seen polling this high. Of course, when they look at the polling, they're talking about a no name third party candidate.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love the Romney-Manshroom relationship. Sort of this like odd couple.
But they're both about 76. They both look really good for their age, by the way. Yeah. Without a few or something on that houseboat.
But you know, like here's kind of the straight-laced Mormon and like the former football player kind of amiable West Virginia. It's kind of a fascinating dynamic, but they appear to get along play well. I don't think either of them will run for president. They both recognize they be spoilers.
They don't be held on Trump by taking votes that Biden would need. But both of them don't want to come out and say, I'm for Joe Biden because they want to keep their power drive for a while. Look, I think no labels will find somebody. I think if Donald Trump is a factively Republican nominee after Super Tuesday, the first week in March, they're going to find a candidate.
What do you think? Larry Hogan, the former governor of Maryland, I think would probably the most obvious candidate. And I think this is the risk for Biden. He's in a vice.
He's risking losing votes on his left flank among younger and more progressive voters, the Cornell-Bassen Jill Stein. And he's risking losing votes on his right to flank to somebody like Larry Hogan, whoever no labels puts up. Because how many voters in this country were locked in the lead voter for Biden to stop Trump? Don't do it again.
And these other candidates, if they were to get in the race, well, Jill Stein and Cornell West already. But if Larry Hogan were to get in, that could shake things up. It gives that voter in the mainline Philadelphia, an escape hatch. I can't ever vote for Donald Trump.
I find him appalling human being. But don't make you vote for 82 year old Joe Biden. I did it once. I ain't going to do it again.
Oh, I have this former moderate governor of Maryland. He's even got a normal person all over him. In some ways, logical, but the risk is, if you're that voter, are you only helping Trump? Well, exactly.
Alright, well, Jonathan Martin, thank you for being here. Happy Holidays season. I have a wonderful holiday season. Thank you so much.
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