Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Anne-Marie Greene. And today we're discussing the trial of Michelle Triconis, who was charged with conspiracy to murder Jennifer Dulos. Now, prosecutors believe Michelle aided her boyfriend, Fotis Dulos, who they say murdered his estranged wife, Jennifer. So joining me today is correspondent Erin Moriarty and producers Liza Finley and Emily Wichick-Hauerhain. Thank you so much for joining us. It's always nice to do a postmortem on our stories. It's great to be here with you, Anne-Marie. So happy to be here. This was a really high-profile case. People remember the headlines, but they remember Fotis Dulos. They remember Jennifer.
But I don't know if anyone really knew the story of Michelle. I know that I really didn't. I didn't pay attention. Well, because this is a story, and I'll give you some of the details, all right? This is a story that really goes back five years. It started on May 24, 2019. That was the Friday before Memorial Day weekend. And this mother, Jennifer Dulos, drops her five kids off at school, heads back home, and she does all the time, never to be seen again. She's supposed to go to the dentist, but she doesn't show up. And the nanny gets worried because Jennifer answers the phone every single time she calls. So by 7 p.m.
She then calls the police. Jennifer happens to be in the middle of a very contentious divorce, a divorce that was kind of set off by an affair that Fotis Doulos, the estranged husband, was having with this woman by the name Michelle Traconis. It had come back since 2017. So they call in Fotis, the police department. He's not going to talk to them, but they get his phone. And when they get his phone, they find out that he had been the night before in Hartford. And when they get video, they not only can see that he seems to be dumping trash bags in public trash containers, but in the truck with him is Michelle.
his girlfriend. And so they are charged at that moment just with keeping information from the police. But later, he is then charged with murder and Michelle is charged with conspiring to help him kill his wife as well as covering it up. Liza, this is the area. You're familiar with this area of Connecticut. I know this area very well. I grew up there. I used to swim in the reservoir where they were searching for her body. And it was haunting to go back to these areas that were so familiar. I went to the same schools as these kids went to. I mean, everything about it was personal. And of course, it was the talk of the area.
These kind of things just don't happen there. People don't go missing. They don't get murdered. I think that's part of the reason that this case had widespread interest, though, because you had this picture perfect town, this great looking family. And nothing is as it seems. But then what changes everything is that in January 2020, Fotis Doulos dies by suicide. And so the focus becomes Michelle. And the evidence against her is that she chose to talk to the police with an attorney three times. And there seems to be conflicting stories within those.
interviews. And she's also accused of helping him set up an alibi. Number one, saying that she was taking a shower with him in the morning when he really was off killing his wife. And the other thing was manipulating his phone to look like he was actually 70 miles away from New Canaan when his wife was being killed. And then her trial started earlier this year. And it was one of the longest trials we've had to cover seven weeks long, I believe, altogether. And Emily, you were actually in the courtroom. I was there almost every day at the trial.
And what was very interesting for me is I actually didn't work on the first episode that we made here at 48 Hours. So I was coming in on it almost like a juror with a completely clean slate, taking in all the information. It was all brand new to me. So what was very interesting about this trial is there were no opening statements. Have you ever heard of that before? Yeah. I think it's a common thing in Connecticut where they have the option to do an opening statement, but it must have been so confusing for the jurors. An alternate juror told us that the jury didn't even know that Fotis had died until...
well into the trial. Really? I remember the moment myself when it was mentioned in an offhand way. Now, this is over five weeks into the trial that this came up. Over five weeks into the trial, they thought Fotis was still alive. And there were only six jurors? Well, in Florida and Connecticut, if you are charged with murder, then you are entitled to 12 people. But anything really less than that, it could be six jurors. Yeah, that puts a lot of pressure on that because there's not as many jurors, but it's also kind of easier to get a conviction. You only have to convince six people. To me, that's so surprising because the accusation is so weighty.
Comes with a heavy sentence. Yeah. The families were there. Right. Just what was that like?
It's always a delicate dance when you're at a trial with both sides of both families because you don't want to see a peer as if you're favoring one side or another, but we're human. We develop relationships. We had a long relationship with the Draconis family, as well as the spokesperson for the Farber-Doulos family, Carrie Luft. So you're treading lightly and realizing it's an incredibly emotionally charged experience for everybody. I mean, your heart goes out to these families and you realize the sort of the tentacles that these crimes have, how it's not just the victims of victims' families, the friends of the victims.
It's also the family of the accused. And in this case, the defendant, Michelle's family is just lovely. The father is a cardiovascular surgeon, an elegant man, finely dressed, articulate, kind. And these sisters who just adore Michelle. And then, of course, on the other side is you had all these friends of Jennifer Farber doulos who came every day because they loved her and wanted to represent her. And then there was two very dramatic moments when.
all five of the children came to court. And of course, we're all so curious to see them. You know, it's been five years since she disappeared and we think of them as little kids and now they're teens. And remember, there's two sets of twins. So, I mean, they're beautiful children. And to imagine that they are here to try to figure out what happened to their mother. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Sitting in the courtroom when the five children walked in, the whole atmosphere changed. A hush came over the courtroom. It was a dramatic emotional moment. It was hard not to feel so intensely for both sides because it was such a tragic.
situation for everybody. Also, you know, you can't forget that these kids also knew Michelle and called her Mishi. Really? I wasn't aware that they knew her in that way. They did. I mean, they didn't have a lot to do with her, but they did know her. And they went water skiing with her. And from the reporting we did, you know, they all got along very well.
to sit in the courtroom with that person that they once knew sitting at the defendant's table. I can't imagine what must have been going through their minds as they sat in that courtroom. I want to talk about sort of a key piece of evidence in this case, right? It's the police interviews with Michelle. She was questioned by police three separate times. Each time she presents a different series of events. I want to play some of that sound. Let's listen.
Fotis Johnson took a shower with me. Remember in the first interview, she said she and Fotis took a shower together on the morning Jennifer was killed. But she changed that story in the second interview. She told officers she didn't see Fotis at home that morning. First time you told us that you were in the house and woke up, you took a shower with Fotis. Now you didn't take a shower with Fotis. So this is all going to come out and it makes you look like you're not telling the truth. This is how she later explained it.
We're false. OK, I was in shock. I was nervous. Michelle's defense attorneys who defended her at trial said that it is usually not wise and they wish she had never spoken to the police. But she was at that time represented by a lawyer, a different lawyer who allows her to talk to the police, not once, not twice, but three times. But Fotis didn't talk to police. You know, he refused to talk to police and she did right away and then continued to. And she ended up giving them much of the evidence that was used against her. That would help in a timeline that they were trying to establish. So she does not testify.
This is her testimony that the jury sees. Yes, that's right. They played them over the course of days. They were hours long. And, you know, it's fascinating. It's fascinating. And, you know, it was something that, as Aaron was saying, something that they could pick apart. What was fascinating about it? I'm curious. What sort of stood out to you? Well, I mean, I think that they changed over time. And I think the first one, I found her personally extremely believable, what she was saying and that she was traumatized by this. And she had no idea. And she was trying to figure it out. And you go, oh, my goodness.
I had that same feeling. Remember, I was watching this with fresh eyes. And when the police, the police said to her, you know, Fotis killed Jennifer. We know this. She breaks down crying. And it seems like such a genuine moment. She's seemed to be really authentically processing that this man that was her boyfriend that she loved and trusted was accused of this. And, you know, what was really going on in her mind? No one knows. But as a first time viewing this, I, as Liza was, was also convinced.
But then she started contradicting herself. And by the third one, you're getting a whole different picture. By the third interview, some aspects of the story were falling apart and she didn't really have great explanations as to the changes in the story. And that really hurt her. But, you know, one could understand why you might have a flawed memory under the circumstances. In fact, you know, the defense calls to the stand of memory expert to explain how high levels of stress might impact memory and recall. And then there's a professor who specializes in the relationship between language and memory.
I mean, I thought it was interesting because, you know, you can't help but to think about your own life. You know, I try to recall moments in my life when I was under stress. And could I remember details? And the answer is no sometimes. And remember, English is her second language. Yes, she sounds perfectly fine when you hear her. But even during the interviews with police, she'd go, what is that word? What does that mean? And I just wonder if that could explain some of her affect, particularly in the third, not explaining well why she changed her story. But I just want to point out that when she's changed her story, the police assume.
that she then was trying to cover up. And, you know, she finds out that Jennifer's missing. Michelle said she's still kind of believing he's telling her she's run away in the past, you know? So she's believing him for a while. Maybe she's worried he's going to be blamed for something he didn't do. So she could be covering up for him to help her boyfriend, not necessarily because she knows he's killed someone.
Welcome back, everyone. So one unusual thing that really struck me about this case is that Michelle Traconis was really riffed apart online for being the other woman. But this is far from the only murder case that involves a love triangle. So why do you think that was? She was hated the moment she first came into the public eye. She was considered a homewrecker, the kind of woman people love to hate. Now, on her side of things, according to her family, she thought she was getting involved with a man who was in the middle of a friendly divorce and that everything was fine and she wasn't the homewrecker.
I think another problem is that Jennifer was never found. And so when photos died by suicide, I think everybody looked at her. She must know something. And when she wasn't sane, that's another reason to hate her. I think that was the attitude. She has to know who would keep that information from the five children. They've lost their dad. They've lost their mother. You know, bring the body back. I think she got blamed for that. The story itself, you know, the bloody clothing found in the garbage in downtown Hartford. And she knew nothing. I mean, they just, she was in the car. She was in the truck while he was getting rid of this bloody evidence. And that did not work in her favor at all.
People could not understand how she didn't know what he was doing. Or if she didn't know at that instant, it's just public perception, she'd have known the next day when it became clear that Jennifer was gone and missing. You actually spent time, Liza, with Fotis and his sister. Right, at the house in Farmington. They invited us there to talk to the sister, ultimately interview the sister. And we went twice, actually. And the second time the two nieces were there was Christmas time. And I've always wondered, I've wondered this for years. And I remember doing a story about a serial killer and went to visit him in prison. And I said to myself, I wonder if I'm going to be able to tell that this is a person who could do something so evil. I wonder if it's written on them. I wonder if it's apparent. And I was wondering the same thing about Votus. And the answer is then and now, no.
And Fotis was very hospitable. He was very friendly. He was cooking food. He was embracing his sister. His nieces adored him. And it brings that question of what is evil? And, you know, it's hard to contemplate it. It really is for me. That's part of the interest, I think, in a lot of these cases is we all want to believe that we would see evil coming a mile away. And then when it's suggested that that's not always the case, it disrupts your comfort in the world.
Very much so. This is a man who lived with her, gave her her five children. Why would you ever think someone like that would kill you? You just really struggle believing that he could do what we know from the evidence he likely did. How could someone hide that ability for so long? And so one of your producers, Elena, actually spent time in his home with the lawyers the night Fotis died? Yes. Fotis died in a hospital in New York City. And his attorney, Norm Pattis, was there that evening. Elena DeFiori, who's been on this case since the beginning with us.
Met him at the hospital and together they drove to Farmington, Connecticut to the house. You could tell that Norm Pattis was so distraught and his co-counsel was there as well. And they walked through the house and they talked in the kitchen. And it was... emotional. It's just another level of tragedy in this particular story. I know that Elena was also by your side as the trial came to a close. But before the jury deliberated, both the defense and the prosecution had to get their closing arguments. Can you tell us anything about the preparation for those closing arguments? What was the scene like behind closed doors? So Elena and I actually went to the hotel room where the two defense attorneys had set up something of a war room. They had a printer set up. There were papers everywhere. And John Schoenhorn was quite literally.
Putting the finishing touches on his closing arguments, Audrey Felson was on the phone with some technical issue with their final slideshow. It was tense. And they were two very devoted defense attorneys. You could tell how passionately both of them really cared about their client and, you know, believed in her and defending her. And they were working right up to the wire to try to put on the best defense they could. The prosecution was not as open to speaking with us. They chose to hold off. That's not really unusual. I think they want to avoid any kind of mistrial or any kind of issues that could come back. That's not unusual.
But the defense attorney really let us in on their process. It was very interesting to see. And so when the defense gives their closing argument, you know, they basically say, look, this is a case built on speculation. There's no facts here. The prosecution delivers a strong closing. So I want to play some of Prosecutor Sean McGinnis' what he says to the jury. I want to just pose these questions to you as you head into your deliberations. Is it really just a bunch of coincidences? Is it just a coincidence that the defendant answered Dulos' phone at Fort Jefferson Crossing when he was murdering his wife in Buchanan? Is it just a coincidence that Dulos' phone is being moved and manipulated when only the defendant is home?
Is it just a coincidence that the defendant travels with Dulos to Hartford as he disposes of the evidence on the same day? Is it just a coincidence that the defendant brought black garbage bags at the Mountain and Jennifer's shirt and brawl were found inside black trash bags? As we mentioned really earlier on in postmortem, there was no opening statements. And so the jurors were really hearing the stories for the first time at the end. So they needed to have all of those pieces of evidence put together in a coherent story. The prosecution did. I was like, wow, that is powerful. That really puts it together. The defense did not so much put together a story as much as try to poke holes because their job, of course, is to establish reasonable doubt. Right. Plus the prosecution got the last word. Which they always do because the burden, they have the burden.
Right. So this came after the defense closing statements. And he's the one who delivered the death blow, really. Because, I mean, I think it was quite clear after that closing argument that he had done an incredibly powerful job. So the jury ends up deliberating for a little more than two days. On March 1st, 2024, Michelle Triconis is found guilty on all counts.
What was the reaction like in the courtroom? It was a dramatic scene. We had been waiting in the court hallway for days. They would occasionally call us in and we would get all excited. Is this happening now? And then it would be the jury had a question or the judge was releasing them for the day. And then, you know, finally we were all called in and the courtroom was packed. There were marshals. Extra security was surrounding us in the galleries. And when they started to read guilty, guilty, guilty, you could see Michelle collapsing onto the desk in front of her. She was crying. Someone in the family dropped down his head. It was a very emotional.
afterwards, the courthouse was set up where there was a media room, there was the main courtroom, and then there were these meeting rooms. After the verdict, I walked by one of the rooms and through the sliver in the door, I could see somebody collapsed crying. And later, Michelle Draconis' family all spilled out of that room and they were just inconsolable. And, you know, you see the emotional presser that they gave afterwards on the courthouse steps. It was a very hard day. Both of Michelle's attorneys were very professional and remained calm and all that, but you could tell that Audrey Felson especially.
really cared about Michelle and believed in her. And these attorneys were by the family side throughout. And Michelle's family sat behind her every day. There were family members behind her in that courtroom. What about the Dulos children? Because they have already dealt with the tragedy on a level that, you know.
is sort of hard to conceive. So the five children live with Jennifer's mother, 88-year-old Gloria Farber, and they still have that nanny that they've had since they were little in their lives who still cares for them. So they have that one constant, very constant presence. But, you know, there's still a sentencing that's going to be coming up that they will have to go through. I don't think any of us can imagine what scars these children have. It's kind of what Liza said, that there's just so many people are affected by a murder.
One of the most moving moments, I think, was talking to Carrie Loft, who was a very close friend of Jennifer. And she said, but even if we don't find her, we see her in her children's faces and she is in all of our hearts. It's very moving. Erin, Liza, Emily, thank you so much for joining us. This was another just really riveting 48 hours. I think a lot of people probably think they know this story and you gave us another aspect of it that we had not heard before. Thanks, Anne-Marie. It was nice talking. Thank you very much for having us, Anne-Marie. Thank you. It was great being here.
All right, everyone, listen, join us next Tuesday for another Postmortem and watch 48 Hours on Saturdays, 10, 9 Central on CBS and streaming on Paramount+. And if you are liking the show, please rate and review 48 Hours on Apple Podcasts and follow 48 Hours wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music and Wondery app or with a 48 Hours Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts.