PPP 522 | Are You Removing the Wrong Friction?, with Maggie Sass and Ross Blankenship

Summary In this episode, Andy sits down with Dr. Maggie Sass and Dr. Ross Blankenship, consulting psychologists and authors of Friction: How Tension, Emotion and Change Reveal Better Leaders. Project managers are trained to remove blockers, and much of the time that's exactly right. But Maggie and Ross draw a distinction that's easy to miss: some friction is simply waste, and some friction is information. You'll hear how the unwritten rules we learned about emotion early in life still shape how we lead, what starts happening in a room before an irritated leader says a word, and the four words Ross thinks can rescue a team meeting. We also dig into why burnout is often a system design problem instead of a self-care problem, what a project leader can actually do about structural friction when they can't redesign the whole system, and which human capabilities are worth protecting as AI makes more of our work faster and easier. If you're looking for a more practical way to read the tension on your team and use what it's telling you, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "But I think the unwritten rule at home was that talking about emotions and living through them safely were two distinct things." "Humans need things, and sometimes they don't even know what they need until you are together in a space or in a call." "You don't ask questions. You don't bring up creative ideas because you have no idea how that's really gonna go given what you're watching a leader do." "But I think the older I've gotten, the more convinced I am that our job as adults inside organizations is not necessarily to be perfect, but it's to repair as fast as possible when you make a mistake, and that's the thing that doesn't happen when people are scared." "I've found that these four words can save your team (and marriage): 'I'm experiencing some friction'." "It helps me remember that between the stimulus and the response, I have space, and the more that I give myself, the better." "There is no real way to separate task and relationship because the humans are doing the tasks." "Being the hero may allow you to solve massive problems or create really compelling products in the short term, but it's not a sustainable way to run a business because businesses are run by people and people have limits." "It's a good example where AI makes you more productive, like, you got 'em done faster, and almost entirely strips the meaning out of it." "And we need to take seriously that our kids need to learn to fail so that they develop resilience." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:14 Start of Interview 02:23 The Unwritten Rules Maggie Learned About Emotion 04:06 Growing Up in Ross's House 05:41 Why Ross Was Skeptical of EQ 08:22 What Ross's Pushback Changed for Maggie 11:01 Do You Have EQ, or Do You Do EQ? 13:06 Can We Get Too Good at Smoothing the Path? 16:56 Where Ross Deliberately Leaves Friction in Place 18:46 What AI Missed When They Tried Using It on the Book 20:35 Leadership as Emotional Intelligence in Action 20:50 What Happens When an Irritated Leader Walks In 24:39 Four Words That Can Change the Room 27:00 When Your Body Writes the Story First 29:28 Maggie's Physical Cue and How She Creates Space 32:55 Burnout as a System Design Problem 35:28 Patterns, Hero Ball, and Structural Friction 37:00 A First Move When You Can't Redesign the System 38:39 Which Human Capabilities Should We Protect From AI? 42:11 What Maggie Refuses to Outsource 43:27 Parenting: When to Remove Friction, When to Allow It 46:22 The Tin Can Phone and a Kid Who Made Her Own Plans 48:44 End of Interview 49:18 Andy Comments After the Interview 53:13 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Maggie, Ross, and their book at TalentSmartEQ.com/friction. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 397 with Dr. Julia DiGangi. It's a discussion about emotions that has stuck with Andy for years, and it's a great supplement to today's conversation. Episode 394 with Joshua Freedman. Joshua is a leading voice on emotional intelligence, making this a really good follow-up to Friction. Episode 446 with Adam Galinsky. Helpful insights on how to inspire those around us instead of sucking the life out of them. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Emotional Intelligence, Friction, Conflict, Psychological Safety, Burnout, Team Culture, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Self-Awareness, Communication The following music was used for this episode: Music: Ignotus by Agnese Valmaggia License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license