Private Governance: Creating a Market in AI Regulation, with Dr. Gillian Hadfield & Andrew Freedman

Dr. Gillian Hadfield from Johns Hopkins University and Andrew Freedman from Fathom discuss their innovative proposal to govern AI through private regulatory markets, which has been introduced as California's SB 813. Their system would separate democratic goal-setting from technical rule-making by having government bodies articulate safety outcomes while competitive private certifiers develop and enforce detailed standards, with companies receiving liability protection for compliance. The conversation explores how this market-based approach could create a "race to the top" in AI safety standards while remaining agile enough to keep pace with rapid technological development. Key challenges discussed include preventing a race to the bottom among certifiers, liability law interactions, and identifying qualified organizations to serve as effective private regulators. Sponsors: Fin: Fin is the #1 AI Agent for customer service, trusted by over 5000 customer service leaders and top AI companies including Anthropic and Synthesia. Fin is the highest performing agent on the market and resolves even the most complex customer queries. Try Fin today with our 90-day money-back guarantee - if you’re not 100% satisfied, get up to $1 million back. Learn more at fin.ai/cognitive Labelbox: Labelbox pairs automation, expert judgment, and reinforcement learning to deliver high-quality training data for cutting-edge AI. Put its data factory to work for you, visit https://labelbox.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:48) Introduction and Problem Overview (07:48) Regulatory Markets Concept Origins (17:14) Current Governance System Failures (Part 1) (19:28) Sponsors: Fin | Labelbox (22:42) Current Governance System Failures (Part 2) (25:30) Private Governance Mechanism Explained (Part 1) (35:06) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | NetSuite by Oracle (37:38) Private Governance Mechanism Explained (Part 2) (44:17) Liability Protection Framework (56:39) Race to Top Dynamics (01:07:24) Red Teaming Implementation Challenges (01:28:47) Insurance Alternative Approaches (01:53:51) Moving Forward Conclusions (01:55:11) Outro