Prof. Robert Pape: WCPT 820 Interview

Joan Esposito is joined by Robert Pape, professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago specializing in international security affairs, and author of The Escalation Trap on Substack. His new book, "Our Own Worst Enemies: America in the Age of Violent Populism," came out last month. Pape and Esposito discussed Ukraine’s military resilience, the risks of escalation, and a Korean-style armistice as a possible path to regional stability. Here are a few highlights from the conversation: - Pape argued that Ukraine is not likely to collapse simply because U.S. support changes; he highlighted Ukrainian military and drone capabilities. - He said U.S. intelligence, particularly warnings of incoming missile and drone attacks, is valuable, while European support is increasing but may take time to arrive. - He described both Putin and Trump as caught in political escalation traps, in which backing down could alienate their core supporters. - He warned that attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure could intensify retaliation and civilian suffering; he argued that such devastation could make Europeans more fearful of Russia rather than more willing to concede. - Pape advocated a Korean-style armistice focused on stability along the line of contact, with no European troops in Ukraine, and support conditioned on adherence to that goal. - He proposed taking Ukraine’s NATO and EU membership off the table while maintaining trade and offering Russia trade incentives tied to respecting the line of contact. Catch "Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on WCPT (heartlandsignal.com/programs/live-local-progressive). Follow us: Website: https://heartlandsignal.com WCPT Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WCPT820 Heartland Signal Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HeartlandSignal Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heartlandsignal Heartland Signal X: https://x.com/HeartlandSignal WCPT 820 X: https://x.com/WCPT820 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heartlandsignal Threads: threads.com/@heartlandsignal YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@heartlandsignal See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.