Proton’s CTO: No company is going to jail for you

from Decoder with Nilay Patel · host The Verge

We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software. There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test.  Links:  Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode metadata supplied by the publisher feed · Published Jul 16, 2026

What this episode covers

We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software. There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test. Links: Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This episode is 1 hour and 24 minutes long.

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This episode was published on July 16, 2026.

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