PT 647 - Joshua White: Fireside Project and Lucy, an AI Training Simulator for Psychedelic Support

Fireside Project is a nonprofit that helps reduce the risks of psychedelic experiences through a free support line, coaching, education, and research. In this episode, Joshua White speaks with Psychedelics Today about why real-time support matters, what it takes to run a national hotline, and what Fireside learned after more than 30,000 conversations since launch. White shares how his background as a lawyer and his early hotline volunteering shaped Fireside's model. He also describes how festival harm reduction work, including lessons from Zendo-style support spaces, revealed a major gap: people often need help during an experience and after it ends. A major focus of the conversation is Lucy, Fireside's new voice-to-voice role-play simulator designed to improve psychedelic support skills through low-stakes practice. Early Themes With Fireside Project Joshua White introduces Fireside Project as an accessible safety net for people who are actively having psychedelic experiences or processing past ones. The support line launched on April 14, 2021, and relies on trained community volunteers who commit to a year of service. White explains why anonymity matters. He argues that a phone-based container can make it easier for callers to share vulnerable material without fear of judgment. He also frames service as a key part of integration for volunteers who want to give back or prepare for work in the psychedelic field. Core Insights From Fireside Project White describes the early difficulty of building Fireside from scratch, including legal design, insurance hurdles, training development, and fundraising. He credits seed support from David Bronner and Dr. Bronner's for helping Fireside prove that people would actually use a psychedelic support line. He also explains a key harm reduction point: calling emergency services during a non-medical psychedelic crisis can escalate risk. Fireside aims to help people regulate, re-orient, and stay safer when panic or fear shows up. Key concepts discussed include: The thin line between healing and traumatizing during high-intensity psychedelic states Why callers often need connection, not rescue How volunteer capacity and call volume shape how long conversations run The difference between support during an experience and longer-term coaching support Later Discussion and Takeaways With Fireside Project The conversation then turns to Lucy, a training tool White describes as a "flight simulator" for psychedelic practitioners. Lucy is not part of the live support line. Instead, it offers emotionally responsive role-play scenarios so trainees can practice staying grounded, tracking consent and boundaries, and responding to crisis cues. White also addresses recording and consent. He argues Fireside needs strong training feedback loops to improve safety and quality. He describes an anonymization approach designed to remove phone numbers, strip identifying details, and distort voices while preserving emotional tone. He also explains the post-call option for callers to delete their recorded conversation. Practical takeaways include: Simulation can help trainees stay regulated when intense material emerges Better training can reduce unnecessary diversion to emergency rooms Clear consent language and easy deletion workflows matter for trust Coaching can expand the continuum of psychedelic support beyond therapy