Welcome to episode 1 of the Pubcast. My name is Brendan O'Neill and I would normally be joined by Mike Cross and Michelle Riley. From these first few episodes we are revisiting our previous podcast, Boardwalk Breakdown. Basically we're shutting down the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast and moving those 13 episodes over here so we can keep them alive and well in our archives.
So the Pubcast is our new podcast where we'll talk about all kinds of stuff and not be limited to only talking about Boardwalk Empire. And we'll actually begin on episode 14. So just consider these first 13 episodes as bonus content. Slancha.
Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast featuring Michelle Riley, Mike Cross and me, Brendan O'Neill. If you have any comments or questions you can contact us on Twitter at Wordwalk Break to join the show. Alright, here we go. Alright.
Episode 6, The Devil You Know. This is our first two-man podcast. We are... Well, it's your first two-man podcast.
First two-person podcast. We had three minimum every time. What about the night I wasn't here? That was how I was in the tell them.
That's it. Right. So that was one man and two women. That's the first story.
Totally different. So that's... Alright, just us two. Me and Mike, we are without Michelle Riley for the moment.
We'll be back next week. And we believe if everything goes well, we will be joined by two cast members of the show. And that is the Young Commodore played by John Elson Conley and daughter Maitland played by Margot Bingham. So that'll be our first special special guest.
Real guest. Real guest. Extra special guest. Alright, back to the show.
The Devil You Know. We open... Again, this is a new hallmark of the series. We open exactly where the previous episode...
Notice that right off the gate that we're picking up in sequence again. So it's three weeks in a row, right? Yeah, I mean, they throw in a couple here and there. We start with flashback.
But once we're in real time, we're always like right back with the last one. So we've got Shockey at Narcissus' warehouse. And that's when he finds the girl on the couch and he sees daughter Maitland back from the dead, supposedly. Or at least he thought she may have been dead.
And he sees daughter and the first thought I had her, anyone had, was that, oh, the kid is Chucky. And effectively they confirm that. Chucky says... Her daughter says to Chucky, you know, she's not his.
She's not Chucky. She's not in Narcissus. And Chucky's like, who? And she's like, she's all mine.
She's all mine. I love that one. Meaning she's mine. But what I loved about it was her taking responsibility at a higher level than anything Chucky could have given at the time that she would have been born.
And she doesn't want Chucky's born. Yeah, she doesn't want it, doesn't need it. It's good stuff. Kind of progressive.
For that time, I would think. I don't know if that's accurate or not. But the given Chucky's background, probably right. Probably, yeah.
I think I'm a fringe in that period of time. Reminded a little bit more of that than you'd see in 2014. I don't think it was common. It certainly wasn't common.
I love the resolve of daughter in this episode. And I love the fact that she is a completely broke horse who is just scratching and crawling, pulling toilets in Memphis. Right. She's just mentally drained.
She's got this angelic voice and she can't be heard because Narcissus keeping her down. It's very interesting. Through all this, I mean, she's back. And one of the things, I mean, they're sort of locked away from Narcissus guys.
They say Narcissus on his way, basically, the doctor's on his way. They're locked in this room. And she's hit the Libyans. She says, she's at the Chucky.
You know, get out while you can. Walk away. It's time to get out and escape this hell that he's walked into because Narcissus is a real deal. But she's effectively protecting Chucky and protecting the father of her daughter.
Yeah, absolutely. When did you know she was that though? Who was that? Chucky.
That's a good too far. I knew he was that right away. I think he knew he was dead too. Well, when he didn't take the shot at Narcissus, I knew that was it.
Right. He was from that, from the get go. As soon as he walked in and didn't shoot him, you knew he was bargaining for a daughter. Yeah, he was not bargaining for his own life.
He was bargaining for something bigger. And I think that's why Althea, the daughter, was so cleanly played. Yeah. Very, very much in the background sleeping in the couch.
She's kind of lingering in the background, but it was so dramatically at the forefront of what was going on. It was, well, I will say about this episode, and this is jumping a little bit ahead to a post script on everything. It was pretty prescriptive, but it was still very powerful, in my opinion. I mean, it was this whole episode was very prescriptive, and it kind of lends itself to what I've been saying all along is that we're going to get everything wrapped in a nice little bow.
Yeah. And they're continuing that progress. It's good. It's dull.
It's fast, but it's good. I get why they're doing it. And I understand the motivation behind it. It's a little disappointing that we're not getting a little bit more plot development.
Yeah. Getting very quick, short, you know, here's the end. Yeah. And a lot of these plot points we know have to get wrapped up in this way.
We knew I think it's going to happen effectively. Well, we weren't sure about Chalky. We were we, I mean, there was rumbling last week that maybe Chalky and Nucky right off into the sunset. Yeah.
I never really bought into that. I mean, I hope so. Chalky was probably the one character in the entire show who was, you know, that criminal with a conscience, right? He was the one who always did the right thing in a criminal way.
What I was saying last time is that the two people maybe with the best moral compass are Chalky and we said, at the time, Richard Harrow, right, Chalky, maybe upping his game in that area right now. Well, I mean, with this episode, he certainly ratcheted it up a couple of notches. Yeah, yeah. And so to back up a little bit before the finale, sorry to jump.
Sorry to jump. You know, I have to go into the point of order because I'm able to like that. Yes. So he said, a daughter says, obviously you didn't come for me.
And then in Chalky talking about, I think it's a nice little throwaway line. He goes, you're the honeypot. Yeah. You're the one that everyone's after Narcisse.
Basically, you're the bait. I do find you to find him totally. He went to go find Narcisse and found her, but it was all. Yeah.
I mean, she could have been carefully placed by Narcisse. Yeah, that situation, knowing that Chalky was on loose. And I thought, I mean, you mentioned already, but that daughter works for a white man in Memphis cleaning toilets. That's like how far she's fallen.
She's this potentially huge star in the clubs in the field. Right. Right. Right.
She's got the golden voice. She's got the talent. She's got the looks. And once Chalky hears that, he's like, no, you can't be doing that.
You're above that. We got to get you there. And that's what he makes his decision. And if that makes his deal with the devil, he was going to blow his way out of there, or he was going to walk away and take the bullet.
Yeah. Talking about the little kid. I'll see you. She's almost, I wonder if it's like this on purpose.
She's in the background. She's small. She's asleep. She's sort of not really there.
She's almost like a ghost. I love that. A ghost of Chalky's past. I love the way they played that.
I mean, it really was because it kind of harkens back to the old set Chalky. Where you were. 22 Chalky. Where his daughter was around.
And, you know, he was doting and he was worried about who she was going to marry. And he kind of see that. I mean, there's a great, there's a direct correlation, my opinion there that it really added a lot of depth to what could have been a throwaway scene or a throwaway segment that really just ended with the way it ended without a lot of texture to it. It really did add a lot of texture.
Now he points it out. I thought, are we really going to do this with an innocent in the room? You know, I mean, I don't think you want what you're trying to do. We got to put your gun down.
It's not going to happen. You've got too much of a conscience to that. And then we see daughter Maitland bring out the record and they play the record and we hear the boys and it's amazing of course played by our new friend, Margot Bingham. So then we see that and then we find out, unsurprisingly, that Narsie's controller.
She can't get booked in any club in the country. Yeah, because he can make a call and it's over. So she's doing cleaning toilets. And then, but then with all this power, Narsie's coming back and says, talks to Chocchi like, I'm, I met with this guy, Luciano.
Lucky Luciano. Mr. Luciano. Mr.
I've been allowed to do my work in my own home. You know, I'm under his thumb basically. And then he makes a deal with Chocchi. You join me to help me take down Luciano and fight these guys and I'll do you a favor and it sort of becomes evident.
I'll release daughter and make a call and let her get back to the club. That's all Chocchi needs and he's in. Yeah, but Chocchi knew even at that point that this was all just a ruse to keep daughter comfortable with the situation. It's comfortable that someone could go with that.
Right. This was all in Chocchi knew all along it was a ruse. Yeah, I knew it was a ruse. Yeah.
It was just a pan to mind. It was a total show to a Peas daughter get her in Althea out of there, maybe get her on the road to success. And Chocchi's got paid for that with his life. And they walk outside and Chocchi's first addresses, Narsie saying, I'm going to keep mine in the bargain.
Will you please keep your doors? And Chocchi's like, yeah, well, how would you know? Well, I won't. Well, then consider it done.
Yeah. Well, you just imagine that it will be done. And then the guys walk in and walk in the alley and walk out and go down. 1920s gangster style to yeah, fiber cross, Tommy guns, fiber cross, take them down.
Right. It was a that's our well, it's not our first in the episode, but in our episode, that's our first quality kill. Look, let's just call it quality killer the night because I mean, really to me, I don't think I mean the mouse right in which we'll get to is a lot of trauma to that quality kill because it was a more meaningful kill. It was definitely more meaningful one.
And it definitely had teeth and it cemented Chocchi as that character on the show that was the one person who really never wavered from his his principles. That's not going to say morals. I'll say, right. Right.
I mean, no one has true honor. I know him. Do it hard. I knew he was going, I knew he was going 15 minutes into the episode.
I knew he was gone, but it was still tough because I was really hoping for some resolution with with Chocchi and Naki. Yeah. And I was hoping for a positive outcome for Chocchi, but maybe the positive outcome for Chocchi. And this is the way I'm going to try and play it out in my brain unless I play it on the show, is that, you know, daughter goes on and becomes successful in all the agrozophans, which gets to be a normal human being, right, as opposed to living in this gangster lifestyle with all these thugs and not necessarily well-mannered people, despite Dr.
Narcissus, right, well to do status. So that's my question. And I'll get to my question about daughter in just a minute. For now, I'm going to break and we'll go into our interview or my interview, one on one with Margot Bingham about her character and how that resolved itself in this past week's episode.
We're looking forward to hearing this. Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown Podcast. Thank you. We are glad to have our first guest from the show.
This is Margot Bingham, who plays daughter Maitland. And you played a very important role in this past week's episode. Yeah. It's been quite a ride ever since and it's been a hard week to kind of get over.
I know that a lot of people are still mourning, but trust me, it's all mine. I'm sure. Now, at the beginning, back to last season, how did you get the part? Was it just like a standard audition?
What was that whole process like? It was a standard audition originally. They were looking for a background singer for a jazz singer in the club, possibly a couple of days, working in the United Club that Chucky White was going to be under ownership of. And it turned into that.
And it was just a normal jazz audition. I went in saying, actually, thank you, we've been with the song that I performed the first time in the flower dress with a big crowd. And that was my audition song. And I think a couple of verses of that, when they gave me the line to read him, and then it kind of kept asking me to hold more and more after week.
And it turned into, kind of, so it was a good opportunity. Wow. So it wasn't really a cut and dried part. It sort of developed out of your involvement with the show.
I guess so. I think that they just thought what relationship was forming with Michael and I, and that there was something there, and it was working. And they just gave me a chance, it trusted me. Now, were you a fan of the show before you had an audition?
I was, my brother, actually introduced me to it. He was a huge fan of the show. And he introduced me to the show. And I watched a couple episodes.
And then, like, I called in for it, he made me sit down and watch every single episode with him. And he was so excited. And he literally gave me an ultimatum of saying, I had to get the part, or I'm completely disowned from my family. So that was my choice.
I got it. Exactly. And I'm sure you're relatively busy now. Do you have time, do you have an opportunity to watch each episode each week now?
I do. And luckily I do, because we actually, we don't get the full script from the episode. So we only get our own involvement. So I don't know what else going on with the other characters.
So week to week, as the viewers watch, it's new to me as well. So it's kind of exciting for me to continue to watch out all fans out. That's what we were thinking, is that you guys only know your bit of the story. You don't know all the other, you know, the other stories.
Right. And we do know everything much. And it's funny because a lot of people ask me, you know, what's going on with the show? And it's not going to happen to me.
And I only say, I have no idea. I really have no clue. Oh, it's great. Now, you get to work, obviously, last season, and this season, closely with Narcissian Chalky, Jeffy Wright and Michael K Williams.
What was that like? Because I mean, I think many people would consider them at the top of the list of best actors, either on TV or in film these days. What was it like to be with those in that high level of talent? It was incredible.
You know, I'm a huge fan of both of them. And I've been a fan of both of them for a while, especially Jeffery Wright, you know, growing up and watching all this movie between Bofki and okay. And you know, people, you know, like he is an iconic figure in the acting community and to be associated in any way with him. And also to be able to call him a friend of mine now.
It's kind of unbelievable. It's unreal. And from some, you know, moment one that I was on set with them, they were so gracious and kind of equal in the world and took the end completely. And it's really been, it's been a chat that I've been more than spoiled with.
I'm sure. The people that are associated with it, you know, the clap and caliber of people alone, but then they're non-ego kind of mentality of the acting world. It's been a pleasure to just work with each and every single one of them. Oh, yeah.
I mean, those two guys play, you know, some of the more intense characters on the show. Yeah. Did they carry that into the the off screen interactions? I know it's probably a good one.
No, okay. No, not at all. No, there's two between guys I've ever met. I mean, Michael is one of the most kind human beings.
I have the pleasure of meeting. And Jeffery, you know, he's intense, but he's very, very smart and he's very talented and I'm with his Iraidom. Yeah. That's right.
Well, got to let me work. Exactly. But they're, you know, they were both very, very sweet and very kind and did not take that kind of a strong demir off camera on the lead. Well, now, when you first approached the character of daughter, you know, how did you come at it as an actress?
I mean, I'm sure it was different when you came at the beginning and there's an evolution between how you came at it this season. What, you know, how did she evolve and how did you evolve playing the part? I think that she continued, especially the role. I mean, I think that the daughter continued to evolve through the rest of the season because she wasn't being written in as a season with regretting so that wasn't something that was done before again.
I think one of the things that happened the best as an actress, especially for a daughter was that her music really scored the role in her character. You know, as music started, she was a little bit more reserved and she was playing to more of a reader crowd and she's playing more of the singer and more of the performer. And as a student's repressed, you know, she became a bit more of herself and she came into her own and she wasn't afraid to see a risk-taker and to be a little bit more of a guy. And then I started falling for Chalky.
You know, she started singing a different kind of blues and it's really kind of beautiful how they set the tone of the season to the music that she was able to sing throughout each episode. And I think that it was when you really listened to the music and make a lot of sense. Exactly. Okay.
Now this season, you know, your appearance in the last two episodes, obviously, we talked about this on our previous podcast. Obviously, Chalky loves daughter. But does daughter love Chalky or is it sort of a different kind of relationship? No, she really did love Chalky.
I mean, you know, the one love that she's ever truly known, the one true love that we set was obviously in her life was it was given to her by men that killed her own blood and took her own blood away, you know, when he killed her mother. So that was the only love that she ever knew and she had to constantly fight for it. And it's really a very twisted, Stockholm-like relationship. And then when she met Chalky and he was in her life, she didn't actually have the fight for his love.
It was these two muscles that just came together magnetically. It was something that she didn't really have to give so much of herself for. It was enough to be in her. And she never loved it.
She never known. So she truly did love him. But when she had the daughter now and that other element is kind of coming to the picture, it's something bigger than just herself now. It's the first time she could be, she's not able to be so selfish and selfish.
She could be, she had to be a little bit more selfless. And she had to concentrate on something bigger and beyond herself. So I think that even though she does love Chalky, she would never ever want that to be the outcome of her time sacrificing herself for her better health or her safety. Her main relationship with her is something bigger.
So it's putting people before their own and that's what Chalky did and that's what she's doing with her daughter. Exactly. Well, in those final scenes with you and Chalky and our seas, we also had the little girl, Althea. And we talked about her because we thought she really, I mean, despite the three fantastic adults in the scene, she kind of was very pivotal in the scene where she's sort of in the background.
She's kind of there, but she's not there. And she's almost like a ghost. And we were thinking that it was almost like a ghost of Chalky's past. I mean, that type of thing.
What was it like acting with a little girl there was such an intense scene? Really challenging to, you know, if you want to play into everything that's given and you want to do all of the characters, just including a little one and you have to be conscious of the fact that, you know, here I am, her daughter's seeing a level of life the first time in here to see the, you know, kind of devil in her world as well that she hasn't seen any years. She's wondering why she brought all of them here and how somehow she was almost the reason for all of this to go down. She's listening to the history of what happened to his family and she's trying to save her little one and trying to figure out why that actually was an option to come back to the narcissist and bow into the office.
And it's just so much to think about and the little girl that actress of Ryan, she really did such a great job. She was just there and just opened everything that was going on. And honestly, she really helped me. And I think it is beautiful that one of the lines that Chalky said is, you know, you take care of your mother, baby girl or something like that.
And he calls her baby girl, but that's the first time that he calls somebody else, baby girl other than his own that was taken away last season. So it's all, Exactly. It was reminiscent of Chalky's previous life, sure. Right.
Right. And it's all very close and it's and it was a whirlwind. I mean, that day took forever. Oh, I'm sure it was it was really good.
Yeah, really good. I mean, during the season, especially last season, your role as a singer was front and center, obviously, and your voice is amazing. You know, we all became fans. Thank you.
And was it tough to learn or adjust your singing style to that 1920s or 30s style? Because it's honestly different than today. It was definitely a challenge. I've studied jazz in the 30s and 40s, but to change over to the 20s and kind of giveaway a lot of the style I've learned and my dad's training was very hard for me.
You know, it's kind of over simplifying something and imagining that you never learned it in first place. And I took a lot of time studying that era of music and I took a lot of time listening to the jokes and the birds and the best and the water at their time and those point and help me through all of it. And but it did take some time to try to perfect the style of that voice without overdoing it. You know, there was some sort of beautiful music during that time, but it was just so simple that you felt and you knew exactly what they were when they sang it and how they felt and all of it was completely communicated through something so simple.
You know, it almost sounded so easy, but it's something to be said about something that could be or seems so effortless and it's really, it's not. Oh, I'm sure. But it was a really great challenge for me and I have a singer and I really loved every minute of it. Is there anything that you would have wanted to see your character do on screen that you didn't get a chance to do?
No. No, not at all. They really made through me. I just saw it and I danced.
You know, it was really I would be on drill for everything that I was given a chance to do. Well, as we wrap up here, what do you have coming up next? I mean, can we expect to see you in more TV, more film or you have an album coming out or you know, what's up next for you? I'm working on a couple of new music projects that I'm asking to speak now and trying to put out a new album coming out very soon.
Just wrap up a TV show on the L-ray network when we brought up our readers to this new network. And it's more of a TV show set in modern day after they would use the panelist in the CIA. It's totally different from what was in the very exciting. Let me just wrap that and speak to how the finale of the first season, stop it up for a second.
You can definitely check out the end of the season. And I just got picked up for a movie with the Sundance Director Quelty in the year who didn't move on without any go over and we'll be shooting in Detroit come this November. Wow, fantastic. So, trying to do everything and editing.
Well, and where can people follow you on Twitter for more updates? Do you guys can follow me at Margo BRSPT and the RTSC like your party? Exactly, great. Well, I really appreciate your time and thank you for joining us at the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast.
Thank you so much for having me Brendan and I think it's so cool that you guys came together and it's like something together so awesome for Boardwalk and love it so much and be appreciated as a cat. My question is, do you think we'll see her again? She's done in the interview, right? No, she's done.
There's no reason for her to come back. She's done. I don't know what she's doing. I don't know if you know, I don't know that.
Look, at this point with two episodes left, it serves no purpose. I mean, the purpose that was served were the bullets that were delivered at the end of the episode, right? But you know what I'm hoping, not necessarily in Donner Mittleton's case, but in general, I want to see a couple of these characters live on in some sort of space. Sure enough, right.
I never even thought about that. No, there's no way that happens, but I totally want to see that. Well, Donner is definitely not a character with enough depth in this series to warrant that. I mean, I could think of maybe three off the top of my head.
Mickey Doyle would be one. He would be the equivalent and I know you didn't watch Breaking Bad, but better called Saul. Yeah, I want the backstory on Mickey Doyle. Right.
I'm going from age 15 and on up. Okay, he talks about that. And you guys see a pie? Who is on Windows Hill?
We'll get him a second. Yes. All right. We have no choice.
He's a primary. Oh, well, in my little no- So much fun. We talk about this. We cut to early on the episode after we see Chalky, the second real scene is Mickey Doyle and his bodyguard, his lackey Joel, right?
Not Joel Wright. No, no. Well, he's different kind of lackey. He did not serve as well in the last weeks.
Oh, he did. So, they're at the Burlesque Club. It's dead. They're bored.
It's not the wrong money. It's midweek. It's midweek. And they're in the depression.
No one's out spending money. Mickey Doyle starts talking to Joel about, when I was your age, I used to do this. I used to do that. He talks about, you know, my gang, we used to hold up this.
It's over and back over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I steal that. Hold up this. Do whatever. You know, I was going places.
And then the kid goes, well, what happened? Why are you here, you loser? You know, you're a mother joke in 1931. Right.
What happened? Your father set me up with your mother. Ha ha ha ha. We all thought the joke.
And the kid's like, wait, what? What are you talking about? He didn't know it was a joke really. Hence, he's thinking that he is related to somebody in the series.
And we think he is little Tommy Dorny. Little bit of foreshadowing their Ithric. I think that's a well placed comment and I noted it as well. I didn't see it last episode.
You guys did. I was thinking the kid with somebody else. I think clearly now he is Dornby's kid. I'm yeah, I've got it without a doubt.
And he comes back later in the episode. Right. I thought for a second, maybe the kid was Nucky's kid because we do get a quick flashback where Nucky's wife, girlfriend, Mabel is pregnant. And I'm like, maybe that's Nucky's kid.
The age is a rock, it's not. We got to Nucky's office in his room in the club and his bodyguard finds he's gone. He's not his room. He escapes him out.
Cut to Nucky in the dive bar. What is going on with Nucky there? Is this dumbing? I really don't understand that segment.
It was so... Is he trying to get back to his roots of being, you know, being incognito doesn't want attention. Now he's getting back to, you know, I'm out with these people. I was with these people.
You know, I can get back and I can get drunk and I can be anonymous. But he does that and I thought it was just an oddly placed scene. An oddly placed storyline within this episode. He's getting drunk, finds this...
I'm going to use the word flusie because I think that's the best description of the girl he's talking to. Yeah. She's drunk, they're chit chatting and goes nowhere, but Nucky makes up a name that I thought was pretty cool. Francis X Bookman.
That's his alias in this little dive bar. Right. That's the X-Science Bookman. From Missouri.
From Missouri. Well, I like how the lady of the evening is calling him... Do you think she's a hooker? I think she's a wayward opportunistic.
Yeah, I'm more opportunistic than a whore. But I love the way that she tries to peel him off as, you know, your salesman of vacuums from Peoria. Right. And he plays right along with it and doesn't even give two shits.
He's just more concerned with the ending. Yeah, exactly. And typical drunk guy at a dive bar. Yeah.
Alright, then later on, another girl joins them. They're both equally ditzy and drunk and whatever. And then the old man confronts Nucky. And so I was lucky to shut up.
Yeah. And then Nucky basically kicks the shit out of him in this bar. What did you think of that? I didn't buy it.
Didn't buy it. That Nucky could do it? Yeah, that Nucky could do it. I did, because he's the kid from the streets and he's a quote unquote gangster or half a gangster.
Yeah, he's a half a gangster. He's the only half way in. I don't look at Nucky as an enforcer and I take a revassion. He's an old dude.
So he's a ducky. Yeah. Okay, they're both old dudes. So the figure with which he attacks.
Right. So to me, in his drunken stupor and with all these memories or flashbacks in his own head. Maybe he gets a little super strength from the crazy. No, well, yes.
But he wasn't beating up that old man. He was beating up that. Totally. Yeah.
Great break-pulled. So I thought that was interesting. Although, yeah, I didn't think it was needed. It was fine.
It was too long a segment. Yeah. You know, we need to know too much going into the flash. So I didn't need 20 minutes of drunk Nucky with hookers.
That's where I fall down every time. It's the flashbacks. Although these flashbacks made some sense. These flashbacks were extremely relevant this week.
But there's so much going on. These little side stories are fine. But there's so much depth in the big stories, in the chalky, in the kapone. And just wonder why, you know, I mean, I guess they're weaving a story, right?
And they want to give us some longer play. They want to give us some wrap up. They want to give us it all. And that's the problem with wanting it all or wanting to give it all.
I can't ever do it, right? And we've talked about this before. There's two more. There's two more.
There's two more. So all the episodes in eight, right? And we've talked about this ad nauseam. So it's almost we'll be laboring a point.
But see previous episodes. Yeah. I know. I know.
It was an HBO decision. If it was, you know, I was reading somebody online on Twitter, a fan of the show. I was saying that this, they thought I don't agree. But they thought this was the worst episode, or the worst season of the show that was ending horribly.
Oh, there's ups and downs. But you can't say it's ending badly. No, it's not ending horribly. Here's, here's, and this goes back to our original problem of you're trying, if we had 12 episodes to finish this, I think we could get more of a flavorful plot development.
Yeah. Right now what we're getting is, we got to hurry up and finish this. All right. So to wrap up the Nucky and the drunken girls storyline, Nucky gets them both into the alley and is going to have sex with both of them.
He's fucking both. He's Johnny drunken Nucky in the alleyway. As he's trying to- He's the best looking guy in the alley. Exactly.
As he's trying to grow up one of the girls, the other one gets behind them and knocks them out. They knock them out and they rob them. They roll them basically. He comes to and he's awoken by Joel, what's his face?
Doyles bodyguard. The royalty. Yeah. Flunky lacky.
Joel Flunky lacky. He wakes him up. In Nucky's sort of drunken stupor slash, waking up out of being knocked out, he starts talking to Joel as if he's Jillian. Right.
And he says a couple things that are really important, at least. One thing I gathered was, why did you trust me? Why did you go with me? Were you so trustworthy with me?
You knew what I was doing. That type of thing. at Nucky taking this innocent Jillian as their teen year old to the Commodore. Right.
That was that was an interesting creepy. Yeah, it was creepy and interesting. So that brings us to the flashback scenario the whole story line with the flashback. Basically Mabel's pregnant and she's up in the middle of night making whatever she can't do.
She's got one for all two. Yeah, she's got the morning sickness or negative whatever brought on by pregnancy. And she's not a Nucky and it's almost a throwaway scene but Nucky restates her almost verbatim or probably verbatim what his speech was that he just gave earlier in the evening to the Alderman. Right.
He sort of displays his oratory skills and his ability to turn a phrase and sort of that he he's a guy that can command an audience which obviously paid off in his career. That was an interesting thing. Obviously. I love how she played off on that.
Yeah and then he like everybody kept calling me Nucky and then she starts busting his balls. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Give me a C.
Yeah. She hates the nickname. Obviously. And he hates it which is great.
Well what's interesting about that is that he never really shuds it. And I think part of that is embracing what you are viewed as. And I think that's a big part of the Nucky personality is really understanding that I am Nucky. It reminds me of a guy that I used to work with.
And his name was Paul and we called him Paulie Walnuts and we eventually got short in the walnuts and he hated the nickname. He absolutely hated it. But that's very Chicago of you. The reality is that that's your name.
So it doesn't matter whether you like it or not. That's who you are. And that not to quote myself in the last podcast but I will. That plays into my idea of the identity crisis and the people identity evolving or not last up.
Yeah. Okay. So Mabel pregnant and then Nucky makes a compliment that you know this guy is gonna be made all over man or whatever and you can deserve it and this guy but that's what the Commodore wants. I've been working for 13 years and whatever the Commodore is what happens.
And that's of course shattering to his whatever the Commodore wants to bring Jillian to the Commodore. Like he's just gonna act like he's just gonna act like we have to whatever. So I'm on a silver block. Right.
Which is creepy. Yeah. It's a mother of a daughter. Very creepy.
Definitely. Then we get Nucky on the boardwalk. He looks to a store. The owner talks about a kid's doing stuff and Nucky bounds to find this kid who's been stealing from the boardwalk.
And then while he's outside sort of contemplating this he looks over down the boardwalk and sees the Commodore welcoming in a 12, 13, 11 year old girl that ever does. Welcoming her into his hotel while the mom sort of sits outside having brought her daughter to this creepy guy. Right. What was going on there?
The mom brought the daughter and then sits outside sort of concerned and scared and whatever. Is it just a money deal? It's got to be a money deal. In my mind it's a money deal.
Right. I mean what's the root of this? What's the root of the entire series? Right.
The entire show. It's always about money. Right. Right.
And what did I hear the other night on a completely different show? Erase the sky saying I don't deal with black. Because he's white and someone else says to him you don't care about color. The only color you care about is green.
Well first of all this is something that has played itself out from the Byzantine Empire to now. Right. And this is not this is nothing that's any different than anything we've ever seen in any lifetime. Is that money rules everything?
Yeah. Right. So I think and I did notice that and I was taken aback by it but I'm a little surprised at least in this episode. They didn't play it up a little more.
I mean it was plainly obvious what was happening. I'm surprised they didn't they gave us the money shot with the pictures. They already gave us the money shot and we already know what's going to happen with Chilien. So they don't have to belabor that too much.
And along those lines the Commodore played I think pretty well by once again our new friend John Ellis Conley who all John Ellison Conley who I'll be talking with one on one and coming up soon. So listen to that and we'll go back to the podcast in just a minute. Welcome to the Boardwalk Empire podcast. We're here with John Ellison Conley who plays young Commodore.
How are you doing John? I'm doing great. How are you doing Brendan? Oh good enough.
I'm still recovering from last week's episode. This is terrible that I actually haven't seen last week. Oh come on. I know.
I know. I'm one but not. Well I assume you know what happens to you or you know your involvement but beyond that. I do but and I have to but you know I'm a bit of a see that I'm collecting all sorts of Twitter things and everything.
I also have a pretty good idea about what the event may have taken but I have not been able to watch it yet. So I'm looking forward to seeing it but I don't think I'll be surprised by some of the major events. No no no I'm sure. Well going back to the beginning of this season or I mean I'm sure you shot this well before but how did you get the role of young Commodore?
I mean what was I assume it was a standard audition and what was that like? Yeah it was a audition and I had auditioned for the show a couple of times before once in the first season and then again I think in maybe season three and this time I came in and I had just reading for a role and you know I don't think I've ever seen you with Justin Mustad before and and she said did you watch the show and I said well here's another I want you to come back tomorrow and read for this part and she handed me this other part which was much better the role of the young Commodore and obviously I had to keep it very secret because the whole story of going back in time had not been leaked yet but I came back in that night I watched some dabble and stuff which is again pretty easy job good job and I went in about the show and then I had to go in one other time for and and and at signer yes. Oh it's great I always early on in the in our podcast here I made a big deal about Tim Van Patten I know he's an accomplished director now but I know I'm a salami from the White Shadow so I'm happy to see him you know out there doing anything it's great sure I read that show yeah his name was he's a phenomenal absolutely and he's a wonderful director I enjoyed the work you know for years and it was it was pleasure to get to work with us one oh great well at the beginning of your stint on the show you know as you started how did you approach the character of young Commodore was there anything that you had to do or I mean did you have to develop that accent did you have to you know try to do a davic home and impression or were you just sort of playing through the the time period well for the audition I had to sort of I prepared in a way that was like I assume because this character had already been so memorably portrayed and the people who were watching in season five are going to be familiar with the character I assume that I have to make an attempt to have some of what Dabneekomond did and so I said I did look at what he didn't show and I and I tried to find the way in which our voices and our mannerisms if they weren't already similar the way in which I could make them similar that didn't prevent me from also being able to you know be present weren't so far in that they seemed third and and so I did that for the auditions and then when when I actually got hired of course as any fan of the show knows it's a car so extraordinary and they built them for you and and so I went and and got fitted for all the clothes that they made for me that really helps you know when you're when you're playing a before and they give you a genuine beaver top hat I mean that's a crazy thing but all those things but the clothes that you're wearing affect posture and affect your idea of yourself in a way that you know when you get that information that's another piece of the puzzle and then of course the script and and that's the other piece and you you check the information that you get from from what you're wearing and you take the information that you get from the person in this case the person who played the character before which is an unusual thing for me I've never done that but sounded really fascinating and I think Nolan, Ryan, Mark Pickering are doing the same thing where it's like they had you know they got to watch these find ways to make it their own but also you know what he does and then of course the third part and probably the most important is what's my job in this in this script in my scene and you put them all together and you and you get there and you work with the guys on the day and well and you mentioned the clothes um did you happen to aren't they amazing walk off with I don't know a pair of shoes or a hat or something tell me you've got a souvenir of some sort uh yeah I wish that I could have um I didn't I did not uh and I had a part of me at the end of that at the time it was coming through and I was like oh I could you know ask it because they made it for me they made it exactly to my you know like my one shoulder slightly higher than the other and all you know actually to my body but at the same time I don't have a lot of occasions where I need an 1884 top coat oh come on even though that was an extremely beautiful garment I I would not investigate that and you know they hung on all those costumes I'm sure that some of the guys who were on the show for years got kept where able to keep a spoo so something like that but uh you know I did not do that back to your your sort of interaction with the other characters one of the one of the uh I don't know uh I don't know if it's uncomfortable but it was uh uh it's sort of it made me uneasy was sort of your characters nastiness toward young nucky uh is that difficult to play against a uh a 12 year old kid or whatever I mean how do you tackle that that's that is uh who plays the youngest uh nucky one side of him working with him because his relationship with the Commodore of course is a pretty specific thing and he's pretty contained and pretty quiet and not you know by design his family and just I hope for him because he's just forged right the photo and you know like do you want me to make it's great so well and that makes that your character sort of went down that path a lot and we uh we had this thing on the podcast we just say like you know creep of the week or you know who was the worst character of that that given week and it's oftentimes uh jillian or it's been all dune or whatever it is um and the Commodore comes up every now and then uh I think I think the Commodore might be in the running for the most despicable character on the show uh what do you think of that? No no of course you know what what is the come but I would say on the fair yeah uh you know that's part of the role that the Commodore I mean of course it's a that yeah you know we need people that are I'm sure I mean the they always say the villain is the most fun all right and this is like yeah oh we can't wait I mean it's two episodes left it's getting it's getting dicey all right I know now uh you mentioned earlier uh you know one of the keys or the uh uh epitases for you to play uh uh uh the Commodore uh is the mustache now that's quite a mustache did you love it or hate it yeah okay and uh usually I had a much I also had long sort of sideburns and chops and all that that and all in been clean shaven uh my time getting rid of it just because it's sure and uh I was like I'll stick with this for a little while and I'll get rid of uh and it obviously really paid off for me so uh that quit it and uh my my wife my wife uh obviously not such big fans of it but my wife really liked it though if someone wanted to pay me it requires me not to have it just that that's great now here's the real question better and much that all right you Danny Coleman Tom Selleck or Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation my respect for him is enormous but you have to take that and you pull me out of that yeah it gotta be either Tom Selleck and I would say Magnum era right of course yeah yeah uh or Nick Operman uh yeah that's a great Nick Operman great stash yeah yeah um I think that's the right answer yeah I think so too I think so too Magmaris L.A.K.
is close but I think we gotta go Nick Operman I agree um yeah all right well I'm sure the answer is you can't say anything but is there anything you can tell us about any of the upcoming two episodes really can't tell you anything but also because I only know about my own storyline sure I can't wait to see what happened actually I'm I'm thrilled about it and and look forward I can't believe I mean there's three more left for me right but I can't believe there are only two more left that's great I know we're yeah we're a little bit sad I'm I'm I'm I had to admit that but you know of course all good things come to an end I mean I I had the privilege of working just on this even but all with all the people who work on that show it really became you know they were they were just was talking to me about the you know like loaded the last because it was shot on film too that's another thing like oh wow a show this large you know with this much visual detail shot on film it might know that would be end of potentially the really really the end of an era right wow yeah okay yeah the good thing is it exists forever exactly um well what do you have coming up whether it's TV film Broadway whatever where can people see you next uh you know I have a couple of things going on around here and I'm looking sort of for my next uh theater uh or TV job okay I have a film coming up that I'm not sure exactly when it's coming coming out uh Robert Edwards film uh that Chris Walken and Amos Schlink later and Amber Heard are in when I live my life over again oh great that I shot uh in the in the late spring and uh yeah I'm you know I'm I'm looking for what's been it great so that's fantastic and uh where can people follow you on Twitter if they want to get uh updates for you and what you're doing in the not so near not so distant future con johnley c-o-n-j-o-h-m-l-e-e-e con johnley on twitter that's great uh well I really appreciate your time uh I mean john it's been a pleasure so thank you for joining us at the boardwalk breakdown podcast and uh we look forward to watching you and young Commodore uh these last two episodes thanks Brendan it was really uh sir join you and uh and I'm so glad that you guys yeah I think it's great the show has and deserves such a fan yeah we are we are super fans so uh we we can't wait we can't get enough so all right so then we cut to in this scenario we cut to Nukin Eli um underneath the uh uh boardwalk set a trap for this kid who's been stealing stuff this little boy this boy I'm sure who's been stealing stuff from the boardwalk and stashing it in some sort of little uh uh alcove under the boardwalk on to the on to the beach we find out pretty quickly it's not a boy it's a girl and her name is jillian jillian so that's our introduction okay you know what this was probably the most pivotal scene in this yeah maybe not the most pivotal but really it's gonna help really outline the arc of the jillian's story and it's teeing up the next episode to be heavily jillian totally next episode and while jillian is not my favorite character and not someone that I find compelling yeah it's going to be dominated by jillian and rightfully so she has a strong place in the history of the series and it's important that we come to a conclusion with her so I understand it completely definitely I love the fact that she's a petty thief dressed as a boy working the boardwalk for state interest right I mean I it really it lays the groundwork for I think all along in the in the entire arc of the up of the series that we've been trying to find her using to find jillian compelling yeah but we're not gonna get up until now save the comadour she's the most despicable character in the entire without question and I don't think they're gonna wave her from that I thought for a while that they might make her this forgivable character they're not gonna it's not gonna happen she's gonna wind up being the scapegoat for lack of a better word one she's gonna be the mass that that fits well and when we first learned of this relationship that she had with nucky and the comadour you know back a few few scenes ago I figured the entire time the way we would find out is that the comadour is giving some speech or being you know this above it all guy when behind the scenes he's telling his lackey nucky hey that girl in the crowd let's make sure you bring her back to my you know hotel whenever almost like a like an 80s hairband like now let's see the blonde girl bring her back and let's yeah let's yeah not at all he made that's what we see kind of with the mom bring in the girl that nucky sees on the bright right right I thought that might be closer to scenario totally different totally jillian's got her own little side thing going on yeah I mean it's not the oh we're gonna reel this poor young she's not a helpless little and i'll just girl and we're gonna deliver the comadour on platter that's great and I think it was a very interesting turn that uh I didn't see coming but I love it it makes me more interested in jillian's story it makes me more interested in jillian's story and I was really and I was in going back a couple episodes of the podcast I was really done with jillian yeah so yeah this definitely brought me real be back in a little bit now we get into maybe the meat of the episode um certainly where the most action conflict drama happens in us and all that's with Eli and Nelson van alden Nelson van muleur as he was quoted as being on yeah that's Nelson Kaspar van alden he says later on yes uh i'm a home casper cast but you know it okay so we see Eli van alden about to try to get into a kapones lair and somehow steal these ledger books that tie him to uh tax rod and tax evasion and here's where I can make one of my comparisons that haven't made a couple episodes yet uh so they're in the hallway talking about how to do it they walk up to the door to uh to pones lair and before they go in before they grab the knob they will hang on let's walk through this they start talking back and forth about all right you're going there and do this what about the epic and kestalo well dance they do that and then they're talking about you go in there with the counting room and I'll talk to someone so what if we're caught and then we do this they're working through it all almost inches from the door made me think of the scene in pulp fiction where they're a thousand right they're about to go in and wait hang back let's just hang that time yet they're talking about flip massages you know well cheese i'm thinking that's pulp fiction right there so great time there's my little time and time uh anyway they get inside they try to uh there's more people there than expected um they try to make some bullshit story about having to drop off money and uh you know we were late last time when make sure it's there we got to get accounted and whatever doesn't really fly it almost is about to and then Ralph McPone walks in the shit hits the thing he's like fuck that i'll take it i'll take it to the uh counting room um and they're freaking out he grabs it and then looks inside of it the worst thing ever i mean if you kept it closed it's put on the desk it's my workout he looks inside and it's filled with shredded paper the line of it all didn't shit themselves because they're completely caught they have no way to go from that and we're back to epic so and it's epic and it's this fantastic little love story of Eli and no sin yeah it's really they're the best it truly is a love story sadly we can't see a spin-off of these too but i think they would be this would this might be the spin-off if we could have one would be the nelson and Eli show although nelson obviously isn't capable he's he's not quite in great shape uh okay so to cover this gap of having scraps of paper and what are you doing how what is this there's no money here what's happening Eli says uh we were gonna rob the place question mark Eli is a fucking mess i love the fact that he came right out with it though he didn't try to fucking bullshit he made it up as the words were coming out of his mouth he's like we were um we're gonna rob the place and he kind of looks at it and all then like maybe sure so maybe they respect us for trying to rob it exactly maybe they can get some credit for it so they're caught in a totally fucking panic then they call uh ralph calls in d'Angelo as the guy to dispose of these two i didn't quite get that there was two or three other guys in the room why didn't they take one of those guys uh ralph was a ralph kopon's brother yeah right so they just want but d'Angelo was not part of the inner circle in anyway he was sort of on the fringe i thought that was weird that they grabbed him well the backstory on this that's great is that when kopon does walk in he walks in with two actors who wind up starring in the movie Scarface right which was from 1932 or three two or three two guys from hollywood trying to make two hollywood guys about kopon who are gonna make a film about kopon and are probably thinking all of this is probably you know a lot of uh spun yarn right i mean this is yeah some of it's true but some of it's probably not real hard and you know he lives like this whole alkopon thing is probably overblown well they find out quickly it is because in the public i mean he was a master pr man he was out talking to the gregarious that's going yeah he was promoting himself as a man of the people right not the bad guy that people thought right anyway so when kopon comes in with the hollywood guys uh d'Angelo and van alden and eli are on their way out almost out of this bad situation where they can regroup and try this thing again or at least survive kopon nails it says get back in here we're guys going let's talk about this we're gonna check yeah now kopon talking to our favorite um cigar store indian uh nelson van alden um he was i thought we were buddies how that was hilarious like we're buddies yeah who's buddies with kopon lee's of alvin alden and then he puts a gun to van alden's head i think you're a fucking bad she says uh he's got him picked he knows what's up and then but he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't know it but he doesn't understand right then this is the part that shocked me because i thought for sure van alden as he has for the past seven years would just put his tail between his legs just be bemueller and just like okay well i'm sorry boss and this and that whatever he knocks the gun out of kopon's hand he jumps up starts choking him says you know tell us exactly who he is and he's an agent he's treasure agent rassey talks about his his faith and you know all kind he exposes his entire self to i loved how he regurgitated the god speak in there right he was like he will be judged by god and i thought for sure they were gonna throw down the pope fiction uh the right in man you know uh you will know i am the lone the rain down upon the uh he goes i am nelson cast bar van alden and then right after that his head is effectively blown off yeah by a gun from daniel the other phantella well placed i and really not not necessarily shocking but it took me by surprise that that's how that that kind of ended that e-lai might step up i thought that's really where i was going with it is i thought it was going to be eli who would step into the fray and yeah try and quell the situation eli's in okay so danielo shoots off half of been all in space he's done blood everywhere all over kapon safety poems like freaking out eli's in shock muttering into himself kind of sort of giving himself an eli and daniel up oh he's like you can't quite hear what he's saying but he's basically just spilling the bees muttering yeah kapon goes to him and he's talking to him he's like you're caught just tell me what happened what was going on you know this is over what was going on and eli showing the last bit of a quick mind still in that just drunken brainy as still those guts but he doesn't say he's with the he's saying he says it was a fed doesn't say danielo he says it was nest perfect sets up oh he's up the next two episodes right amazing to finalize us because for three episodes i think we're all sitting like all right we saw in the first one is where is he where is he coming back he's the opponent's arch enemy one of the things that i love about this though is that the nest kapon scenario has been so played out right that it's a very like that they make it a little secondary it's not necessarily nest kapon it's it's more about the backstory behind that and that's been that's been a good play i think they've done that well i'm waiting for costner to make a yeah i guess and i'm taneero and a bookkeeper is all of a sudden next episode it's costner against uh danielo yeah i haven't but fire away in the in the condensation the the baby buddy who was there yeah all right kapon we finish off this little uh scenario here this storyline with uh kapon's thing we was bums ralphie who was very good kipon line he was bums almost a Burgess Meredith rocky line very yeah very central and then ralph goes well what do we tell his brother meaning eli's brother this was my favorite moment in the episode uh and then uh kapon goes buchillanos taking care of him he walks out into the other room so proving all along with him was in on the assassination on nucky or the attempt on the yeah so this sets up a huge point for the next couple of episodes of kapon you know a little thing we didn't see coming i thought it was kind of cool i was impressed by this more than i thought we should have been at the end of this little uh scene ralphie grabs the angelo ralphie kapon and hands him the briefcase with the ledgers in it saying that you know al was impressed what you did there you saved his life here you go take these assist ralphie you know lay low now giving the angelo everything you wanted yeah even though vennel didn't have to die for it but uh as interesting and then on the way out he let's you like go like here's 50 bucks go get a train get out here right and where does where what i love about it is is where does he like oh i know back to see does he go does he dutch completely can he go back to nucky i don't know does he make an appearance anymore he might be done yeah i mean the in here's where it gets really interesting is just that right we're so we're down to the bitter wire here we've got to finish up things with jillian we've got to finish up things with margarit we've got to finish up things with naki we've got to finish up things with kabung is a room for eli and we've already sewn up we've already sewn up uh our rostee rostee oh we have to finish up luchiano right we have uh we have a we have a number of things that need to be done before this i know well and i'm wondering if eli plays the prodigal son coming back to nucky and then they stand together against luchiano it wouldn't shock me afentathen but i'm telling you they've already it's corny and they've already thrown us for a looped chalky thing right so the chalky thing we're all hell bent on chalky and nucky riding off into the sunset together and they fucking quickly put a bullet in that hand so i'm not going to make any predictions on that so we've got two episodes left right we i believe jillian is maybe if not the central character one of the main storylines in the very next episode has to be you gotta get jillian going she's got yeah i've got a kick start that the other one i think margarit we got to see what's wrong with margarit i think or maybe they hold her until the finale i think they hold her till the finale and i think there might be some kind of uh some kind of closure with her and naki yeah that is positive i think that might be one way that they end this yeah that's i mean clearly i think it has to be positive i think um with those two i think it's positive and any close to this up in the series no but i think they have come back together and they're the only positive thing in the series left so maybe that'll continue for the last couple episodes but okay so we've got jillian has to happen next episode we know from some of the previews i think uh marnzano and luchiano and that whole thing something goes on well that's gotta come to a head right next episode it's gotta be the last episode needs to be a real dramatic kind of a not a dramatic i'm sorry not dramatic that's a bad word to use it has to be completely wrap up fulfilling the we're not doing a sopranos on this right this isn't gonna be a no no i'm saying and we fade to black you gotta do it this has got to have some kind of a closure you can see where it's headed just a matter of how they do it right so we've got we know it's lucky luchiano and marnzano slash naki that's that's something's happening there next next two episodes right we've got jillian the other one we've got it's gonna play a major major role i think it's gonna be the last thing we see in the i'm gonna say the final scene of the entire series maybe or let me do the second to last one we'll be a flashback the entire episode the we got to see the comador and naki i think those are the flashbacks gonna be a bigger player in these next two i can see the flashback being a big player but it cannot be the whole episode no no not the whole episode it might be it might be the the uh the bow one on the series well i could see the ending of this series being flashback that's i'm thinking and it's gonna kind of neatly wrap it up but maybe leave us answering you know asking some questions i can see that happening i totally see that happen good stuff definitely all right uh next week we tackle the penultimate episode of the entire series of boardwalk empire with a as far as we know a full cast you meet and the show maybe a guest maybe a guest next week i'll see what we can uh wrap up for next week um and then two weeks from now uh we will have the finale episode which is we i hope that a full house for that uh both of us plus michelle plus allison and then who knows who else tim and others right so there's a five or more for the finale so that's that one if you're gonna miss one don't miss the last one of our episodes no it'll be good it'll be good so next time cheers slantja salu to my time thank you for listening to boardwalk break down follow us on twitter at boardwalk break