Welcome to episode 1 of the Pubcast. My name is Brendan O'Neill and I would normally be joined by Mike Cross and Michelle Riley. From these first few episodes we are revisiting our previous podcast, Boardwalk Breakdown. Basically we're shutting down the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast and moving those 13 episodes over here so we can keep them alive and well in our archives.
So the Pubcast is our new podcast where we'll talk about all kinds of stuff and not be limited to only talking about Boardwalk Empire and we'll actually begin on episode 14. So just consider these first 13 episodes as bonus content. Slantja. Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast featuring Michelle Riley, Mike Cross and me Brendan O'Neill.
If you have any comments or questions, we contact us on Twitter at Boardwalk Break. Enjoy the show. Alright, episode 7, Friendless Child. We finally, not finally, we again have a full house Michelle's back from her when we hired us from the podcast.
Same little book back. This episode, this episode, unlike the previous couple, does not start off directly on the previous one. That was kind of cool twist. This one opens with, I believe it's either a real one or based on a real one, the Radio broadcast by the US attorney Robert Hodge, the boss, it's Will's boss talking about basically how we're at war with the organized crime syndicate of the northern East Coast.
Pretty cool. I thought that was a nice little period touch. I thought that was good. Yeah, and it was a great way to turn up the heat a little bit in terms of, you know, we're so, well, that, but also you're so into like the personal stories and it was a great way to kind of turn it up and say, oh yeah, these guys are all dealing with the law too.
Yeah, and that's one of the things I mentioned a couple episodes ago that there's no law enforcement to be seen. There's FBI here and there, but not really, there's no cops. This sort of ratchets, ratchets it up, you know, saying that the cops are all over this and it's a war. That was pretty, it was typical of the period.
Then we go to Nucky. And Nucky was just a sad sense. Nucky was at his most vulnerable. Absolutely.
This episode. So I want to just, just before we get into this, since I wasn't here last. What do we miss? No, you didn't miss anything.
I wanted to ask you a question. So I was listening to the podcast after you recorded it because I was not with you. And when we, when I was listening to you guys talk about Nucky's just descent into that bar. What the hell was that?
He didn't truly get it. You never, you know, the podcast I'm wondering a week later, have you given it? I actually thought about it. From the time we did the podcast until Sunday, and then I forgot about it from there.
But it's, you know, I was trying to figure out what this high was going to be. I mean, I knew he was going to get rolled. I knew he was going to get rolled from the minute he started talking to her. You saw that woman.
You're like, all right, this is not a real encounter. But the fight with the guy, that was like the most anti-climatic thing I've ever seen in my life. There was nothing. I don't know who that what the significance was of the guy.
The only thing we came up with was that he was, no, he was fighting his father. Yeah, that's, that's all we got about that. But the whole, there was a chicken gnoches, drumming it, trying to show that he can be the guy he used to be when he was young. I don't know.
I think it was just like, I know. He hates himself so much that that's why he hates himself. I guess, was he beating up his father? Was he beating him on himself?
Yes. Yes. I think it was more of a self-flover than anything. It was a combination that I got to go to swell in.
His reaction to like depression, basically. But I will say this about that whole segment. It was 15 minutes that we probably could have used on other things that would have been a fight on. Well, yes.
A lot of, that's true in a lot of ways. I agree with you on a lot of things. It seems like they've made some odd choices about what they choose to do. That's my argument for this whole season.
I actually will get into it later. But the thing with, what's, no, Mickey Doyle's Joel? That thing seems really crazy to me. There's gotta be a payoff for this.
There's gotta be a payoff for that, right? There's an inordinate amount of attention to bring this guy in at the end. But you know, we had a theory. Oh, and I agree with theory.
But anyway, getting back to that, I just thought that I still can't really get what was up with that. But he really descended into depression. And obviously, as you open up now, be on the show, well, we are in the deep, deep pit of depression. The show was incredibly sad to me.
Yeah, the whole thing was sad. Talk to bottom. I will say that every episode so far, the season, and there have been some down moments. This was the dark.
It was down. It was down. It was beyond down. It was beyond sad.
Well, there was like, I mean, it was lucky was really losing in all fronts on this one. But that said, we knew we were getting here. We just didn't know it was all going to be in one episode. Like we knew.
Yeah, I think that was part of the shock and all. Most of those parts we knew were going to happen in some form or another. Right. But I think the shock of it was getting like one solid hour of sugar.
Okay. When you guys say you knew we were getting here. Are we maybe we should say this for later? Are you predicting an ending?
No, I'm not based on Elijah. I have a prediction, but it's not based on this conversation. All right. I would try that statement.
We're moving on. So, Nucky. Nucky meets with Marzano in his burlesque club. Nucky is fire in brimstone.
I want to take down Luciano. So Nucky wants to take down Luciano. He wants to fight fire with fire. He wants to be proactive and rid of his biggest enemy at the moment.
Right. He's decided it's time to go to work. Marzano is sitting back saying, uh, uh, uh, all that happens happens as it should. Um, and we're playing a game of chess here and Nucky's like, I've played chess.
Uh, I've never had an opponent try to kill me. Um, so Nucky wants blood right now when it comes to Luciano. He's about two steps too late. He should have put his dog down a couple of weeks ago.
He's had opportunities. And Nucky brings up like between the two of us, they've killed 19 men. We've lost upwards of a million dollars in revenue. Um, let's act.
And Marzano keeps preaching patience. What is up with this guy? I thought he was like the boss of bosses. I thought he was supposed to have the iron hand.
Apparently not. This character I thought was confusing. I thought he was a bigger Don for lack of a better term. I thought he was a bigger force.
He's being so passive in this episode. What's being passive and he's being played on all fronts. Yeah. And I actually looked up the, the real like what the deal was with this guy and apparently Buzzy, um, killed him, um, which makes the story different in the episode.
But, uh, actually he killed him in a similar way to the way it was. Right. Like I guess this show just took advantage of it happening this way. Um, so yeah, I know is just a wet noodle for me.
I like, dude, you gotta step up and do something. You're under attack by your own lieutenants or whatever. Yeah. Right.
So then he goes and he gets, he gets Bugsy who was just over the top in this episode. Yeah. But that was not an easy goal as he was known. I mean, I guess.
Yes. I guess that was a good. So he was, uh, he was a loose live wire loose cannon live wire. I thought it was, I wish this had come up earlier in the season that Bubsy, Benny Seagull is such a thorn in the shoe of Lucky and Landscape.
He's, they're so fucking annoyed with him. They, he's such a pain in the ass. Right. I love their hatred of him.
Like when they answer the phone, like fuck you and they hang up on him. Right. Uh, we're gonna head to ourselves. But that was definitely like, it's actually like a Joe Pesci thing.
Yeah. Yeah. I believe your goodness. We got to deal with this guy.
Like the maid. What? He's supposed to be part of their inner circle and he just a jerk off. But he's not.
I think he's just an annoying character who has tremendous amount of power. This time is a joint off. Right. Right.
So, Nikki, you know, goes and kidnaps Bugsy. Well, but how does he do it? Uh, Bubsy is at some flea bag sort of apartment, uh, given, given it to a guy's wife with a lady, uh, just a nobody's wife that he knows, apparently, or knows of it apparently in some way, um, given her a nooner and uh, on the way out meets the husband, signs autographs and then, uh, Sean, some nondescript, uh, henchmen of, uh, nukis. Sean, Mickey, who's in the car outside and Archie.
Yep. Archie is the name of, not, not, he's bodyguard. That's Archie. Oh, yes.
Archie is short for Archimedes. That's a great name. It's an insane name for a human hitman, but it's a good, solid name. I'm a great name.
So these guys go in, uh, they shoot at Bugsy, giving the leg, he bites him off. Sean gives a bullet in his head, a fantastic little fight. Uh, and Archie with his little knife doesn't think his ear off, but holds him down and he captures, uh, thanks a lot. Right.
But the whole thing backfires on Nucky. Right. Oh yeah. So, he's lucky when he goes to try to play his, play his hand.
Lucky does. I got, I got, buys for you. Yeah. See you at the, he's kidnapped by the Nucky.
They call, they call him lucky. At first they blow it off like you're an idiot. Get back down here. Hurry up.
Hurry up. They hang up on him. Then Nucky calls back. They start talking to him and they hang up on Nucky saying we're not doing a deal.
Kill him. I don't care. I don't care about Bugsy or they pretend not to care about Bucky. Right.
To strong play by these. It was a strong play and, but it also showed that they were by fire, the bigger gangster. They, every play, they were the biggest. First of all, they knew that Nucky would not kill Lacy.
Right. Right. Because that would have been the end of everybody. Right.
Right. Whether they, the test, any new seagull or not is, well, not to test, but if they, if you annoyed the shit out of him or not, they're not going to whack one of their, they're not going to let one of their own guys get whacked without it being all that war. Right. I mean, that would definitely be a point of no return.
So, well, I think that was part of it. It wasn't just so much the annoyance. It was just like, yeah, right. You're not going to kill him.
No, he was just playing a hand with Nucky and he blew up some and, wait a minute, he was pushing back. And Nucky tries to arrange a meeting. Like, let's talk about this. It's working out and I hang up on his ass and it's, it's, you, you really see Luciano flexing his gangster muscles.
Yeah. He's, he's got him all right. He's the alpha dog compared to Nucky, which is way different than the first four and a half seasons event. Right.
Here's where I really took, so I've been took notice in this episode was the fact that at that point, I realized that this was on the rambling to a point where nothing was coming back to the way it was. Yeah. It was never going to be the same. This world, this world is different than yeah, this is way beyond anything.
And it was, it was alluded to in the past when you saw the Italian stocking, like we're gonna have Chicago and we're gonna have New York and they're like, well, what about in the Atlantic City? And they said, well, Nucky, Taki Thompson's not Italian. He said, well, Charlie Luciano is going to take care of that. Yeah.
Right. That, you know, and because I think Nucky's been built up in with us throughout the series, throughout the four and a half seasons, you know, you get to that point where you're like, this guy's invincible, right? I mean, every turn he's got an answer. Well, in the viewer's eye, Nucky is the center of the story.
He's not. He's certainly not anymore. And yeah, this, the dark part about this for me is that this is a real changing of the guard. Yeah.
Yeah. I would say, and that's, that's kind of been the way they have portrayed lucky all season and the actor has done a tremendous job. I mean, a tremendous job. He even looks different.
He's got that little scar on his eye coming down his side. But I mean, his posture, he looks taller. He looks a little bit different. He looks totally different.
And he's intimidating. He never get. No, no, try it. So at the end of this little exchange of trying to set it up before the actual meeting is set up, we'll get to that in a second, Margaret calls Nucky.
Yeah, the one and only appearance. The one and only appearance zones super, duper important. I mean, this is an overlooked ultra important part of this episode that it's overlooked. Well, but yeah, it was, it was small, small, small.
I think it was small, but very important play. Yeah. Right. I mean, this to me obviously holds huge importance to the finale, right, and Nucky's future.
Margaret calls saying, Oh, I want to confirm that you're, we are shorting 50,000 shares of maple hour green corporation stock. Yeah, sure fine. Short 50,000 more in the morning. Right.
And by the way, Margaret, if you have any money left over in your little school ways away. I laughed at that. I was like, do you think you need to tell her? Right.
Sweetheart. She's got this. She's got this way ahead of the show. She's probably shorted 60,000.
Right. She's probably good. She's probably good. And she plays about like, Oh, I'll make my own decisions, but she's on board.
She's got rolling. She's making money. She has her own agenda. She's doing her own thing.
I can't wait to see how that works. This little dance that her and Nucky are playing. I actually really enjoy considering the fact that I think it's good. Margaret hasn't always been one of my favorite.
But this is interesting. But this is now she's turning to the woman that I think Nucky wanted to build her into. And that's another, another avenue to go down that she was built to be this woman by Nucky over the course of these 15 years of the show or 12 years of the show. I would actually argue that she had a whole time.
Well, she did have the whole time, but someone need to pry that out of her, right? Prided the upside out and it was done. Remember when we met her? She was just, you know, a praying Catholic.
Wow. She had one in one side to it. She had two or she had intelligence, but she seemed more broken at the beginning and now she seems gathering more strength. Wow.
So one of the subscenes that I want to talk about in the early part of me, Nucky and he's talking about Merzano and whatever is his interaction with Joel. Yeah. Yeah. Mickey Doyle's lackey.
Uh, Mickey tries to give the kid a gun. Yeah. To be part of this brewing battle with Luciano and whoever. That's, I think that may come back.
Right. Yeah. So Mickey gives this kid a gun saying, you know, strap up your part of his word. Let's go strap up.
He's got a little bit of, he got that going on. Uh, Nucky sees out the corner of his eye and stops it immediately pulls it down on the kid's hand and says, you know, you're not part of this. Hands it back to Mickey. Yeah.
So again, boiling us to the point where this is Jimmy Carmody's kid. This is Jillian's grand start. Yeah. Jillian's grand son.
Uh, that's coming to in, you know, next week there's so much that's going to happen. So much that needs to happen that I'm even willing to start taking like building a betting chart on when stuff's going down, right? But in the first 12 minutes, I know. Okay.
Him taking the gun away from Joel is not just him taking the gun away from some kid from Jimmy's son or whatever we think it is. It's him preventing this kid from getting involved into this bad world. It's a it's a it's a it's Nucky taking the gun away from young, young Nucky, right? It's him preventing another kid from getting corrupted by this whole.
It's the age old gangsterism of my next generation. I wish someone would have taken that gun away from me back. Well, and that's what, I mean, I'm sure you're probably not ready to go down this road. But when Eli appears back to town, yeah, and he sees Will on the street.
I really, I really love that line. He looks horrible. And Will finally was like, listen, what, you know, can I get some money? Can I do something for you?
And there was a very long pause. And I really liked what he said. He said, well, I just like to see that you're on the right side of the street. And that's another one of those just like, and so that's when I sort of like, well, okay, you know, we had to suspect that maybe there was a double cross in the works with Will and now maybe he is just trying to go straight.
Maybe it's just simple. But it's the same thing. Those both of them had those moments with them. Yeah, younger guys.
They realize they're they're far down the wrong path and they want to prevent the next generation. Well, look at the show. They're in the parallel between the Joel scene, Joel and Nucky scene and the Will and Eli scene were unbelievably, I caught that right, that caught on that right away. I'm like, this is so symbiotic.
And so I mean, it's boilerplate in a lot of the gangster ism or gangster type situations with Oh, the next generation is going to be better than this. They're not going to have to shoot. They're not going to have to. Well, yeah.
And I mean, the business is Corleone's right. We're going to build a business and every time I try to get out, they keep pulling me back in. So Michael, I didn't want this. I didn't want this for you.
Right. And I mean, it's just Senator Colleone, Governor Colleone saying the same thing. It's just to stay. Come on, you're shinning on my first impression of the entire podcast.
That's all. Oh my God. It's all appreciate it. That's not your first.
That's your mind. I'll tell you anybody seen a pack? Next. No, but I mean, I do love the, you know, I think it also helps them justify what they've done.
So I'll be a monster. I'll be happy to take that in order to let me take the ball. Let me guess. It wasn't in vain because this guy is going to well, and I think that plays true for Eli.
It really does. I mean, well, I don't know yet. Well, but he would hope so. Yeah.
But here's a thing no matter what happens with what will take with whatever happens with Will. I mean, he takes two bullets in the neck or he, you know, comes back to life as this DA. So it's going to be, he's going to be a better person or a better place than Eli is. Directly after that season with season, the Lord, that scene with Will, I thought immediately after Eli would get plugged.
Yeah, I kind of did because I felt like it. I did. That was that. Right?
It's it. Instead, Will gets captured by Luciano's guys. Right. The tit for tat for buzzing.
Right. Which I think we need to revisit. I mean, they, I mean, he definitely, okay. So they go through that exchange.
They go to the meeting, right? Where you want to go? They're already way out of your sense. I mean, we can, but that's the no, please.
Yeah. Hey, climax. I want to introduce a bit of the flashback. Jillian, young Jillian at Nucky's.
Yes. So she's there. She's asking that was making. That's another layer of sadness.
It's the saddest. It's the saddest. So sad story. Nucky's asking Jillian, you know, where you learn these proper manners, where you became who you are, you know, how did you learn all this stuff?
She's very well read. She's very proper. He knows the right way to act. Yet she is this thief.
How all this happened. And he throws a line out that I, while I'm watching it, I had to pause it and look back at my notes from previous episodes. I'm like, someone said this before. I know someone said this before.
Nucky says, everybody comes from somewhere. That sounds very familiar to something someone said in a previous episode. It was last episode. So five, when young Nucky says to Mabel's father, every story has a beginning.
Everyone comes from somewhere. I think that's a theme in Nucky's life. Right. Is that I wasn't always this half gangster or half politician or full gangster with her right now.
I came from something that changed me. I grew from that. Right. He's talking to Jillian, like young Jillian.
You're not this robber. You're not this thief. Where did you come from? He means literally where did you come from, the orphanage?
But how did you get to where you are? Right. And that never is exactly shown. But she's very well-mannered, very well-educated, and Nucky chooses to help her despite his want to let her go.
And I thought that was interesting is that she is an orphan, we believe. I'm still not 100% sure if that is the case. I mean, it's all presumed and it kind of plays itself out. There's no time to play anything else out.
Well, and I don't think those things are heavily legislated at the time. Right. But was she an orphan or was she just sort of on the street? I don't know.
She says, you know, where she's from Trenton. She gives the address, but there's nothing there apparently, or no home there or something to that. So she could have been just a kid on the street. I don't know.
Anyway, I thought that was telling because Nucky is empathizing with Gillian's situation. But then later, he definitely, it's his wife that really wants to see this through. And every opportunity is like, we've got to get rid of this. You know, and I thought that was a little strange.
Why did he want to get? It's weird. He took her in and then why did he want to cut her loose so bad? He keeps saying you can only help so much and only help so much.
I can't do everything for her. I can only help this much. Why? Why?
I thought the same thing. Why? And Mabel wants to keep her or at least help her in a more significant... I didn't get why she was twisting his arm so badly and he was not agreeing about what's a big deal.
They were having a baby. Yeah. So when in this storyline, let's continue this for a little while, young Nucky is talking to Mabel or talking to Gillian. And Gillian brings up Mabel.
Well, he's expecting that. Gillian brings up Mabel. And she says, Gillian's asking Nucky, please don't take me back to the orphanage. Let me stay here.
I'll only work for you. I'll go to the school and do whatever it is. Let me help out in some way. Earn my keep.
Then she says that Mabel is so scared of something. Mabel is scared of something. And Nucky's like, when did she say that? She's like, you can see it.
She's scared of something. What's that something? There's... I think that was a significant moment.
I don't know why that's right. Is she scared? She's losing a baby. Is she scared that Nucky is in the wrong crowd already, Commodore, and whoever?
Is she scared that... I don't know what? I have no idea. These are great questions.
I don't even have a theory on that. Good. Good. I don't even see that.
I do think it was a pivotal moment. Because that was weird because it was never addressed. And why would you say that? That's not that it's never addressed.
Why would you say that Mabel is scared of something? And I've watched this twice. So I'm covering that. That has to play role next time.
Anyway, on this storyline, Sheriff Lindsey comes Nucky. Yeah, that was weird. He takes Nucky to the Commodore saying... I'm done.
I'm out. We got official business. No uniform needed. Just come with me.
They get there and Lindsey talks about how I worked for the Commodore. I did this and that for him. He saw me as a reliable man. And he's clearly disgusted at what is happening or about to happen, or has happened.
And then he goes, here is opportunity for you, Nucky. Hands over his badge. Walks into the sunset. He gets his little buggings gone.
Now Nucky's the man in charge of whatever is going to happen inside that house. Super creepy. It was super creepy because this guy who... Even before he gets inside of super creepy.
Right. The guy has been portrayed as such a bright light in a show that has very few of them. And he was decent and obviously so endearing when he's had the scene with him bringing the young Nucky home. And then all of a sudden to say, there's something so sinister going on here.
And unfortunately, this man has now been tarnished by it. So much so that he has to quit. I mean, that's his... Right.
Sheriff Lindsey sees something terrible happening. He doesn't want any part of it. I'm going to quit. Why does he bring Nucky to Commodore's?
Well, because Nucky asked for it. He asked. That's right. And he would obviously really know.
Right. But Lindsey is up until now. No. No.
No. No. No. I disagree.
I disagree. Really? He brought him into his house for family dinner, showed him what a caring family is. But is he...
He's his mentor. But is he what he portrays himself to be? No. He has been in the Commodore's...
Right. He's done all this bad news for years. And he goes home and he has these really happy dinners with his really weird fucking kids. Right.
And his really stubborn wife. Right. Right. And he means I'm used to an sex slave trade thing with Commodore and that kind of crown.
And sooner or later, that obviously it eats at his conscience. Nucky had asked for it previously. And they really pointedly took that episode. And he protected him and he said, not now.
And now's the time. Yes. And now is it. But he realizes his history with the Commodore is booked.
He taps out. Yeah, totally. He's stabbed out. Knowing that it's horrible and I'm a bad person.
I got to get out of this. But Nucky, what? Nucky why? But I'm saying to make that realization that I'm doing a horrible thing.
Now I'm going to hand it off to this kid. He brought him to the doorstep of the devil. Right. Why do you do that?
Because he was asked to. He wasn't. He was not by Nucky to do it. He asked him to.
He said, bring me to the doorstop of how. Right. He asked him. Yes.
Well, so did he. I mean, he's totally. Yeah. He's in the.
He doesn't know what it is. He knows that he knows this guy. And I mean, I don't know that he knew he was going to the price that he went. No, but I don't think it mattered at that point.
I think he was so power hungry at that age. Yeah, I agree. And you know what? You know what?
I loved about the same dollar. You're in for a dime. You're in for a dollar. I just don't like the guy who finally saw the light is now bringing someone to that speed.
I don't really thought that like I finally could take it anymore. Well, yeah, whatever he wants. It's putting hairs. I mean, he's out of it.
You know, you can call what you want. It's putting hairs to think that someone else isn't going to take the job. Right. So it's like, it's like, me saying I'm literally a lawyer.
I'm not going to find this guy because I think he's guilty. No problem. The next lawyer in line will do it. Right.
Right. So he brings Nucky to the table because Nucky has specifically asked him for this. Take me into the web of whatever deceitful business the combo is in because I want to help. That's that is very.
Yeah, I think you're being about it. Right. You know, I want the guy first call out with a Pollyanna. That's okay.
I like that. I'll accept that. I'm saying that because I think he finally realized his badness and is stepping away from it, why would he then throw somebody else into it? I know he asked me.
I don't agree that he's finally realizing his badness. I think he's out. He's out. He's out.
He's this part of it. You already said he's beaten down. Why not stick with it? He said he's tapping out.
He's just out. He's out. I mean, I don't think that might have a suitcase full of hundreds. He might be like, fuck this.
I'm not selling another 12 year old in the same trade. Yeah. I thought that was significant. I was surprised that the guy who I thought was the only positive influence in Nucky's life that we saw would then serve him up to the devil.
Well, I'm not surprised one day. Neither. I thought the comment or would go get him not taking it. And I think it's symbolic that they did it the way they did it.
Yeah. Oh, I mean, in the story, it makes I will give I will give you the symbolism behind having him do it to kind of create that wrinkle. But I don't think there's anything more to it than look, I've done all this shitty stuff in my life. If you want to take it over, here you go.
Here's your chance. All right. I'm out. Yeah.
All right. All right. So once he's a horrible dude. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a big guy.
I mean, come on. Yeah. So he was nice and nice. My only it's your point.
He was never a good guy. No, no, I'm like, I played the part while I played the part while I played the part while. So when we get into the house, it's I thought it was kind of interesting. I don't know.
I didn't really get it. It was his it was Commodore was just moving into his big mansion. I thought that was interesting. I don't know why it was played off.
So well, the man said the house. Like that then he was all eventually jillion head. Right. Right.
Right. He was moving in. He was moving in and had the all the stuff and crates and lucky walks by and I thought that was weird. Like he was entering the lines then, right?
Yeah. And then he's asked to take this young girl home by the Commodore, super creepy Commodore coming out with his suspenders on and whatever. Take this girl home, tell the mom there's no more money coming home and the mom should not ask any more questions. So this sets up what I loved about this scene is this sets up.
Oh, yes, I'm 150% right? Yeah. So you've got the whole show has been setting up jillion. I mean, Jesus, it's the worst kept secret of the season and that this is going to be the climax.
Well, it's not even a kept secret. It was everyone knows that Jimmy Garvey was not like that. Right. But just really it really lines up the stars with the with Nucky basically delivering jillion to the Commodore.
And that's how this is going to totally right. So one of the saddest things that I've ever heard. I'm not going to wait till the end because we all know creep of the week Commodore. Oh, right.
Creep of the week creep of the season. Creep of the century. Creep of the 1800s Commodore. Well, 1885 to 1930.
Oh, creep of the whatever. So let's talk about Torio Luciano and Lansky. Yeah. What I thought was very cool because the whole time and we talked about it last week is that Torio is sort of a tire but not entirely.
I know. Neither can Lansky and Luciano. Right. They're like, I can't believe they let him hang around.
They want him whatever value he gives but once they get what they want, he's done. They just got him like nothing. So they're talking about and I love it when Lucky Luciano talks about icing people. That's my favorite name and we're going to put this guy in us.
Let's ice him. Let's ice. Let's talk about icing. Not easily.
Yeah. And they even talk about Lucky mentions, you know, hey, let's get one of the Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt girls to the Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt Broad's Dyson. Yeah. The Vanderbilt.
The Vanderbilt's Dyson. So I'm talking about the Red of Marzano in this particular scenario. Right. They are so pissed off at, see, Bubli Siegel, we talked about that.
When they are meeting with Torio, and Torio is trying to say, you know, I'm the guy who's going to broker this big meeting between our town families, right? And, you know, I've got to, I'll make the calls. I'll talk to effectively the head of the five, five, nine, nine, New York and Billy and Pittsburgh and at this point Chicago. I'll make the calls and they're like, nah, we got this.
Well, we'll take care of it all, man. You're done. And Torio doesn't realize that he's out. His services are no longer needed.
Right. Super interesting because it is the young guy is taking over. Yes. I mean, clearly, Charlie's a man here.
And here's the thing on Torio. I mean, the history on Torio, he's a guy who lived for a long time. Yeah. He really kind of toiled the nanon, the video later on in his life after he went to jail at some point in the 30s for vaccination.
Well, I think all these guys live in their 70s and 80s. I mean, Lansky and Torio, and I think, I forget who Chiao did too. And the only one who didn't live as long was probably Benny Siegel. Yeah, I think so.
And that was because of the failed misgivings and Invades. Yeah, and you went out west, right? But, you know, Torio, the fact that, you know, we're kind of having a hot inside. How is Torio still hanging around?
How is Torio still hanging around? Well, because he did. Yeah. Right.
I mean, this is, you know, they are taking liberties with a lot of these historical... Certainly. Not a lot, actually. But not a lot.
Yeah. And they're trying to stick to the story. Well, and even in the, in that special that aired this week, the behind the, you know, getting ready for the finale of World Rock Empire, they talk about Torio was retired, but he kept cropping up here and there and news stories once in a while. His name was still there.
He was still kind of sort of involved. He was a guy who played around with that. He was in World Rock Empire. He was behind all of the involved.
So like a high neurofiber. Right. He was involved with... Well, what, and then...
So yeah, perfect. So he was. And what he also did was he got himself involved in multiple, multiple legitimate businesses. Yeah.
So he was a relevant player in not only the, the crime syndicate, but he was a relevant player in the business industry too, because he did keep them separate. And he did manage to kind of toe that line. And he had some legal misgivings we kept completely separate from his legitimate enterprises, some of which involved alcohol. But you know, it was, he tried to run it on the up and up.
And I think it was that he got to a point in the late twenties, early thirties where he was 50 years old, which at times was old, right? Yeah. And he was 45, 50 years old. And he had realized that his time of being a guy who had put a gun to someone inside was old.
Right. And he, I like the way that they're putting this out with Torio because of the fact that you can kind of see him slowly weaning away. But he's been doing that for several episodes where he's pulling the, I'm just an old man. Yeah.
Right. Well, that's my design. Let's get to that in a second. Because there's a great visual scene that sort of illustrates that that he's sort of in the back.