Welcome to episode 1 of The Pubcast. My name is Brendan O'Neill and I would normally be joined by Mike Cross and Michelle Riley. From these first few episodes we are revisiting our previous podcast, Boardwalk Breakdown. Basically we're shutting down the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast and moving those 13 episodes over here so we can keep them alive and well in our archives.
So the Pubcast is our new podcast where we'll talk about all kinds of stuff and not be limited to only talking about Boardwalk Empire and we'll actually begin on episode 14. So just consider these first 13 episodes as bonus content. Slantja. Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast featuring the show Riley, Mike Cross and me, Brendan O'Neill.
If you have any comments or questions you can contact us on Twitter at Boardwalk Break. This is part 2 of the 2 part final episode of the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast. We recap the final episode, final season and series finale of Boardwalk Empire. Enjoy the show.
Alright so now we're down the stretch and it's back and forth between Nucky Present and Nucky Past. Now we come to Yum Nucky standing with the Commodore at the event at the Neptune Parade on the Boardwalk. He sees Jillian find her top stores and stay there and then. So I missed when she sort of what I missed is why she was in it and then took off.
Like was she like sneaking into it or what? She was sort of became part of the flow. She's not into the parade. She's not into the parade.
Why didn't she sign up? Because she's not Nucky. And she knew because Nucky wanted to take her back to wherever she wasn't from New Jersey. She doesn't see Nucky as a protector.
Even though he kind of has been but it's up and down. She was scared. Yeah she was scared. She's working in a trying to make her way.
So then Nucky finds her top store. Jillian says Mrs. Thompson said you want to be good but you don't know how. Another telling quote about Nucky's life.
You want to be the good guy but you don't know how. You can never make that jump to being a good guy. You're always kind of that guy. Then going down this path we see back and forth.
Nucky is presented with the choice from the Commodore. You can be the sheriff. Here's the badge. If you help me with these less than great decisions I'm going to have you tell me what these bring these young girls to me so I can keep them in the work force.
But there was something though prior to that where he was stripped of his deputy badge. Like he didn't understand what was going on. It's again the Commodore just shooting. The Commodore is flexing his muscle over the deputy sheriff.
Right. So it's like he stripped of that but then it came back around where he was offered to be the sheriff. It was just an interesting mind game. The Commodore doesn't want to be sheriff.
He wants him to be his official lagging to Pip. To go get his little girls for him. In order for Nucky to sign up for that he has to have the. Basically it just said I don't need you're an idiot out of here.
If you want to share that talking with Jillian and he thought you know what you want this? He'll do this for him. And he took the bait and he did it. He took the bait for his hands out.
His hands out. Jillian takes his hand and we know what happened from there. And this is the symbolic piece of this is that both of these deaths that happen in this or two of the deaths that happen take place on boardwalk. That's the death.
Really it breaks both of them in a different category. Right. So. And I think they did it.
Maybe you talked about this last week. But I think they did a great job of casting that young Jillian. And she was great. She was great.
She had that same cadence. Both of those young characters were. I agree. And the character I thought he was great.
It was a good. What do you call it? Like a. A person in a person.
Well so we said while the kid did great half of that that role is played by a dental prosthetic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
That's key. That's all it is. Yeah. Yeah.
All right. So that's that. Do you think that his facial expressions and his right. He didn't.
Yeah. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't.
He didn't. He really. He pulled it off. And then we come back to present day.
Nucky. This one he was at the burlesque club. Getting his things. The Italians are now running it.
And he gets a call. He looks at the car to the tables. We all is mentally back talking about the table again. That was weird because that is never wrapped up again.
No. Right. To that point though. Like when he first walked into the club it was like he it was like he was going totally into somebody else's world.
He had a dead right. Like it was like he was a stranger. Right. In his own.
Yeah. In his old place. He was. Yeah.
And how quickly that happened. Yeah. You know that there was just no connection. There's a relationship.
This will trust. Yeah. And then he gets a call on his personal line from the rits. And it's somebody saying they pinched Joel for thievery pertsnatching in the lobby of the other is.
They want to get a situation. Yeah. Situation. Yeah.
Come take care of it. So cut to Nucky scolding Joel at this coffee shop. Yeah. Again.
Nucky try to protect. Protect someone who could go the wrong way. He's trying to put him on the right path. Go back home and get some money.
Get some more money. And Joel rips it up. So do you think he was really drunk? No.
No. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Yeah. Then we see Nucky walking the boardwalk sort of aimlessly which makes sense because there's nothing on the boardwalk that he now has a connection to. Right. He no longer has the risk.
He no longer has the club. He doesn't live or breathe on that boardwalk at all. He's just there as a tourist almost. And then he sees the King Neptune.
King Neptune. The board. Yeah. So back to the his experience with the parade and Jillian and all that.
And he sees two guys under the board under the billboard. I bought him. Who are those guys? Maybe those are the guys that Luciano.
Yeah. They're in the shoes. Okay. So that's my thought.
Then Nucky turns away from those guys to walk away. Turns right into Joel. And then we have discussion of Joel back and forth with Nucky. And Joel says when Mima talked about you, I couldn't tell if it it was love or hate.
Mima being. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm Tommy dorm. Darmedy. And the well of pride. Michelle is right.
I mean, we knew that that all along that's who he was. But I didn't know all along. Well, I saw. But what I love is is how that actor created a connection to Jimmy.
Right. I mean, that I mean, it felt like he was somehow related either how he spoke or how. Yeah. It was another good casting to Michael Ted's character.
I mean, there was something about it. Oh, I did. Oh, I got immediately. Especially this last episode.
I definitely did when he was in the jail cell and he was talking to him in the diner. It totally looked like a young Jimmy. Yeah. Yeah.
I noticed it more this time than before. I actually did you project that because you knew who he was? I thought it was him four episodes ago. I really agree with you.
When what's the same picked him up? I didn't think I'm saying did you project the physical connection to? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. He looked at it. But maybe I went back and looked at it. So then obviously, Nucky's shot three times by a place of the chess.
And the guys who are the two guys that were eyeballing Nucky, I believe. Yes. FBI guys were cops. Yeah.
It was somebody who was not there. It was an agent of some sort. Yeah. It wasn't someone who was there to, you know, whack them.
It was someone there to tail them. Yeah. The government. And the final scene is young Nucky swimming through the Atlantic trying to get the reporters from the grabs one.
He grabs one. He finally got one. I also thought and this is so morbid. But I thought like a makeup job that they did on him.
Like he looked just drained of all of my. He was so light. I noticed that. Yeah.
It was really striking. I think that's you wish any is normal. It is. But it was more so.
No, I did. It was different than that. He was. Yeah.
Like it was. It was a different look. It was like he was drained of all life and all energy. It was just like he was.
It was done. Yeah. He was just done. So.
Yeah. I'm walking dead. Yeah. Satisfied on the ending.
I think so. I think so. I think so. I mean, I was.
Yeah. I was. I like the fact that it happened on the boardwalk. I like the fact that it was about the personal.
Like it was a personal issue that brought him down. It wasn't the business. It wasn't the business. It wasn't the all that.
So he was able to navigate that very well. And I think that that goes back to his strengths of being able to kind of play the game, if you will. But he was what brought him down was his personal choices about his personal life. When we were always in the house.
I mean, I was. I mean, ostensibly there were all these, you know, syndicate things. But every time you found a storyline compelling, it was because of personal aspect. Right.
Right. Like a poem with his deaf kid. The fact that he interacted. I mean, actually one of the most underrated characters I think in this whole thing was Capone's brother.
Yeah. It was fantastic. It was a fantastic character in terms of just like where you could see how brothers would try to help, you know, my brother's fucking crazy. But I'm going to try and, you know, even the staff.
We all kind of, it's not a huge leap that we made. But we all expected Nucky to die in this final episode. Even though the actual Nucky did not. We died of old age.
Right. Because in 1840. A character inspired by the real guy. The historical Nucky Johnson did not die the boardwalk.
I mean, I never expected this to follow that. Right. So I always was waiting. I was saying it wasn't a big leap, but it was nice to see that we were on the right track.
The thing about it. Yeah. I like that it happened on the boardwalk. That it didn't happen like awesome crazy roads.
Like a hotel or whatever. Yeah. It would have been, did anyone catch where it happened on the boardwalk? Because where it should have happened was either in front of the Ritz.
Right. I was in front of the theater. Like I was still there. I was thinking of that.
Not the bats. The bats was gone. I don't think it was in front of his. No, it was just a coffee shop.
Yeah, random spot. I got him a cup of coffee where I got. I really do love the connection. But that's not what happened though.
That he had. No, it happened in a walk. But whatever it was. Go or something.
Or. And so that. Is it where the. I don't know.
I don't know. It doesn't really matter. The theater. The boardwalk is the key.
Yeah. Yeah. But what I do like if I'm right, if it did happen in front of a theater, I mean, it's about the acting. It's the play.
It's about the story. Good point. And I thought there was something about the signage that was out front. It goes like an A frame thing that talked about tickets or some of that show time.
Yeah. I mean, this shows that dance that stuff could have been in there. We just didn't see it the first time. Right.
And if it's not, it should have been. Terence Windsor. Damn it. So, Kevin of the week.
So. I was strong. Before we get there. Creep of the week.
Yeah. Creep of the week. Creep of the series. Yeah.
Creep of the series. I actually, to be contrary, I would say nothing. The fact that nothing took the bait. We knew for some time that kind of door was a creep.
Oh, that's good. I mean, not he was really the creep of the week. But the series. Creep of the series.
Yeah. I mean, no doubt. Okay. I'll go with that.
That's fine. I mean, he was so creepy to do that. Now, you knew that's what he did. You know, it's the same one.
It's just so creepy. Quality kill of this episode. I'm probably going to argue. It's got to be not.
I think it has to be just because of the importance. Of course. But I and you're going to go with who? I'm going with the Libyan.
Just because I couldn't say that. I find that there's a work in that kill actually. That was the Narcissio is more satisfying to me. I was.
I was more of a misdirection going in. I mean, Nucky was kind of just an assumed. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it was the whole episode and actually every episode leading up to it's kind of like, okay, so how was this going to go down? It wasn't about it. It was when? And we didn't know if Narcissio was we didn't know we were going to see Narcissis again in the family.
We thought he might have been when he walked off out of the alley with Chalky. Yeah. That could have been the last time we saw Narcissis. So, no, I like that he met the end that he needed to meet.
You know, like coming out of church preaching to his wife. Just a hypocrite. He was a great. He was a total.
He was terrible. Looking back though, like Luciano hated Narcissis so much. He tried to kill him multiple times. Three times?
Well, even when they were sitting around the table and I don't know that we really talked about that, but they talked about the seven families or whatever sitting at the round table and nobody's at the head. And they even went so far as to talk about Irish, the Jews, the Italians, but made a point that's mentioned the blacks or the time they would have said the Negroes. Like they never would have mentioned that. And I think that was kind of telling to of what was going to happen with Narcissis because it was an exclusion.
Correct. Correct. Right. Right.
That's all right. Baby. You know what? I don't think that was I actually disagree.
I don't think that his disdain for Narcissis was because he was black or African American or whatever you want to say. It was because he wouldn't play ball. He didn't have to make money on all those other people that Irish and so on and so forth as long as everybody's playing his game. Right.
Right. Right. But the the black boss was keeping him out of the black neighborhood. And I don't know different times because of business reasons.
I don't know. I think there was something that didn't appear. It was symptomatic of the business reason. Yeah.
I don't know what I agree. I mean, I think there was something like an innate thing that would happen then. I think I kind of wait. We must all agree.
Okay. Rapping the season up or series up looking at all five seasons. Yes. Series of the whole around the table favorite character.
Jim. I'm starting with Michelle. Jim. Was Eddie.
Jim. Was Eddie. Why? Because he was just best at crazy.
He was really at least played by the actor and just he was just so such a force. Yeah. He was my favorite. I will say this in the half hour retrospective they did on the series.
They talked to all the actors and the guy who played Meyer Landscuse, he said they asked what their favorite scene was that they were involved in. He mentioned the scene when Jip insulted like a table like this with five people and he went around the room and he absolutely thrashed every single one. I was shocked. I was just with his words and it was just incredible piece back.
Yeah. And he was very good and he would be a close second for me. Richard Carroll is my favorite character. Yeah.
Yeah. Just because he was and I think we've stated this before on previous podcast. He was the only character I think that had any redeeming qualities in the entire show. He was the closest thing to a moral compass on the show.
Yeah. And that's why you described that. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's probably what made him the most interesting. He was closest thing to a moral compass because he was the only one up front about being a killer. Right. Right.
Yeah. Not that he was doing anything good or positive but he was. He was an hypocrite. Yeah.
He wasn't an hypocrite about it. And the character just had a lot of depth and they played that character very well over the course of the three and a half seasons that he was around. That's Angelica Houston. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was a famous Houston acting on a prior family.
Acting on a prior. Yeah. Continues on. So my favorite was Chucky.
Oh, I love Chucky. Because I think he was one of, if not the smartest character on the show. I would say. And faced arguably the biggest challenges of any character.
Absolutely. All of them. Yeah. He was one step.
I mean, 10 steps. I mean, just for me. We always said like, Nucky was always two or three steps ahead of everybody. Even when he made mistakes, he made them purposefully.
Yeah. Chucky was a close second. He always sort of had that next step in mind. Whether he could get there or not.
You know, that was the trip. But that character had a quiet dignity but rage but frustration. Yeah. You know, it was a complex dude.
Yeah. That was my favorite for sure. It was great. I mean, I love the three characters that you all just mentioned.
There are times where I'm like, I think it's Chip. I think it's, it's Harold. I think it's Chucky. What I liked about Chip's character was what happened when he would go home and how his sisters or whatever would just belittle him.
And like, he became just a schmuck on wheels. Like, he just like folded under this. It's so interesting how family could be the great equalizer in everything. Right.
So I thought it made a great. So I always thought that dynamic was really interesting. You're a tough guy outside these walls. Inside.
Inside. You know what? You're just our little brother and we're going to snack you around and we're going to tease you. We're going to make you feel like an idiot.
You know, I love that dynamic about that character. I will tell you when Richard Harrow's character died, it was such a bummer for me because I loved that character in the show. It may be it's because it was the, there was something good or like he was always trying to be good. You know why?
He had connections to Wisconsin. That's why. Well, there's something that draws you to. I'm Wisconsin.
Getting the question. But I liked that character element in this series tremendously. So and in Chalky was just a great character. I loved his voice.
I loved his the dynamic that he brought. He it was this kind of quiet rage that he was always simmering under the surface. But it was always like right there. You can see it.
You can see it. But it didn't bubble overall. Smoothing. And I did like his his commitment to family and his daughters and stuff like that.
I really did enjoy that. Well, and that's it. We can get into this later. But that's an element of most of the characters that we talk about.
Always had a family connection, a inspiration for what they do or whatever it was with a family show. Interesting. It's close. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and I've said this the last time I visited it. It would have to be Jeff. I think he was for for that's I mean that was the best season that I saw for the show.
And he just was. Season three. Yeah. Season three.
And he just out shined everyone else that season. He was just a man of his own. And actually that was really when the story in the first season clearly was set on Muffy. And when Jeff came into the picture, that was really when that story started unraveling.
Exactly. And the other stories really started. Yeah. It also produced the best finale.
I mean maybe next to this one. But Capone getting out of the car and say I've been in the car for 18 hours. I mean, a shower. I need a bath.
I need some ciao. And then we're going to sit down and figure out who dies. That's right. Yeah.
That's fantastic. And the 68 people took it in the final episode. That was good time. It was a good time.
So it's got to be Jeff. All right. And this will be a quick one. Least favorite character.
Mm. Nice. Nice. Nice.
Nice. Wow. I'm surprised that you said that. Nice.
He just bugged me at every turn. Yeah. God, this is like a tough one. Ooh.
And the thing is I do honestly my father was on the front of the top of the week. So I still don't know why they let him live. I don't know why I didn't put a bullet in his head way sooner than I did. He was a problem at every turn.
Interesting. I got because everybody appears to be stumped all three I went out there. And it's not a main it's not a main character. But he was in it enough.
I'm gonna include him here. And this is partially and I let me couch this entire thing. I have a huge bias toward this character. Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. OK. So my least favorite character because he was portrayed like such a wimp was Dino Bagnon. Oh, Jesus.
This is too much of a stretch. I'm stretching. Fine. OK.
But he was a bigger horse to Capone than within this. I know that the story is not a Capone story. I get that. I'm trying Chicago, make alert.
Yes. Fine. Fine. But this guy should have had a little bit more of a backbone to him.
But that was a piece of nice. He didn't jump enough. He was a flower guy. I mean, what?
He was a lace curler. He was sober. He was so burnt. Shanty.
Shanty Irish. He was a lace curler. I'm not a lace curler. I'm indicating a horse.
But look, I don't necessarily disagree with you. It's a small character. But it's a small character. It's not a fucking game.
It pisses me off a little bit. You know how he is. He's the angry Irish. I think for me, I mean, I'm gonna say I've held this line for the entire series.
And well, I do test in our series more than pretty much anyone on the planet. I have to go with Jill here. Because she's just such a... I didn't say she wasn't an important cog in the wheel here.
She's one of my favorites. She's my least favorite character. She's the first victim of an A-list. Now what I would have said before, the I would have said before the season started that Margaret might have been at the top of that list.
And she completely went, wanting... She's trying to determine the season. That's about ready to be done with that lyric. All right.
I'm gonna make her manage to my previous statement. Oh, cool. Let me guess. It's gonna be another side character.
No. It's a major character. All right. We favorite Commodore.
No. I like that. Because his character, the old Commodore, had some mystery to him. There was something there.
And then when we saw the young Commodore, it was never realized. It was never... He wasn't deep enough. Too dimensional.
Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I think...
Pretty straight now. Having said that, having said that, I appreciate the acting chops, the portrayal of young Commodore. I totally do. I thought the guy was excellent.
The shop. It was awesome. But... I had trouble that first up because I was a little taken back.
I told you that I thought it might have been Nick Offerman when I first met him. Right. Why didn't they give the part to Nick Offerman? I'll also give that advantage to Nick Offerman when I first met him.
That was my first thought. Be ready for you. The role is more than a mustache, but yes. But yes.
I'm saying not. But I did come around to really appreciating what you brought to it. John Tronley. I think that character could have been written a little more...
Give it a call because then that... No, he was a shallow as a punnel. The entire course of the series he was, though. I mean, there was never a need to that character.
It was always a gravity. He wasn't the badness behind Nucky. And it didn't sort of... I think the problem with that character is you really saw the imagination of the work that was taking to drive the story as opposed to that.
Yeah, it was totally that. Yeah. He was a vehicle to tell the story, so he had to be two-dimensional. So it was much more about the device and then it was actual portrayals.
The great. Elson? Worst? Or...
Or... Peter? Well... Most of his life...
I really struggled with this question because I really did like all the characters and I appreciate your role in the show. I always wanted Eli to man up. Yeah. You know?
You know? What are you waiting for? That's the thing. It's like my god, man up.
But it took me... I did not like him. I was in the market until the season I started going. He started...
There was an interesting dynamic. I loved it with Ben Alden. The Ben Alden. It was entertaining.
It was entertaining. But like that character, I'm like, roll up here man and just do something. I know, yeah. Just couldn't get there.
Constantly this sad sack and he was always waiting for somebody to tell him what to do. I liked him early on when he was almost like Nucky's henchmen. But he never... It was just...
There was something about that character. Like... Wait, when he tried to kill his own brother, that was like, this is not someone I could've thought. Yeah.
And the character, the actor played him really. Oh, that's brilliant. Like he did exactly what he needed to do. The character was just...
And that was the whole thing. If you can get people to feel that way about that character, that's a good... Oh yeah, he was great. I thought, so that would probably be my least...
My least favorite. Tim. This will become... This will be a shocker with Rylin Burner.
Like already... No, he's being taken. No, Nucky. Nucky, boy.
Oh, I just... I mean, I appreciate it for Michael. He was so annoying. He was my second ethhenizer.
Just to think that he was on the show to the guest. I second to the last episode. I think that just bottles. Well, we...
He survived. To me, he was not only the cockroach, but he was the comic released throughout the series. Yeah, I mean, he served his purpose. He certainly did.
There were times when Mickey would answer... Oh yeah, not like a reactor when we're talking about it. Oh, no, no. It's my character.
It's not necessarily about the actor. It's like the guy who played Narcisse is unbelievable. Oh my God, Jesse Wright. That's an actress on the show.
But one of the most annoying characters in the world. Oh, I'm sorry. No one mentioned Jimmy Darmody. Okay, now I actually haven't been writing mentioning Jimmy because I have to say, you know, I said one of my favorite character.
I really loved Jimmy. And I mean, that was a ballsy move when they killed him. The second season, because I was like, what the hell? And that's actually one of the things that got me really watching the show, because I was sort of like, what a show killed the man here.
He was my know-a-why we have YAR. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I really like the character you saw the show through.
But Jimmy, the whole time, there was a conflict. I mean, you could always see him wanting to do well versus not... He was more like a Richard Harrow in the sense that he sort of like... He had made peace, but he had been irrevocably altered by World War II and sort of...
Oh, son of a mother. Yeah, his mother did more damage than World War II. But he loved his child and he loved his wife. He's wife.
And Harold. I liked the... He did what he got her other thing. He was under a hair.
So I want to give Audible mention on the positive side to Van Alden. Yes, I totally agree. And Rastin. You want to know that...
I will mention to Rastin Van Alden as my second tier favorite player. Yeah, Helen Carrick. I told you I agree with you. Rastin, the guy who played Rastin, who was interesting to see it.
That's a favorite player. Yeah, he was one of my favorites. The 30-minute segment, which I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen to watch because it's so valuable to see it. It's not a man.