Welcome to episode 1 of the Pubcast. My name is Brendan O'Neill and I would normally be joined by Mike Cross and Michelle Riley. From these first few episodes we are revisiting our previous podcast, Boardwalk Breakdown. Basically we're shutting down the Boardwalk Breakdown Podcast and moving those 13 episodes over here so we can keep them alive and well in our archives.
So the Pubcast is our new podcast where we'll talk about all kinds of stuff and not be limited to only talking about Boardwalk Empire and we'll actually begin on episode 14. So just consider these first 13 episodes as bonus content. It's oncha. Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown Podcast featuring Michelle Riley, Mike Cross and me Brendan O'Neill.
If you have any comments or questions you can contact us on Twitter at wordwalkbreak and join the show. Hey, are we going? We are going episode 3. Well Jesus Son.
This was an interesting episode for me because it wasn't quite as action-packed as the last one. No it wasn't. But it wasn't quite as expositional as the first one. Agreed.
I think it probably would be like that or most would be like that. And since I miss podcast 2. Yes, let's welcome Michael Brad. Michael Brad from One Week Exile.
But here's what I was very anxious about last week that I was not able to express since I was here is immediately I knew when I saw the episode that it would draw Brendan in. Yes, of course. And the angst at the end of episode 1 that you were expressing would be alleviated very quickly and they did not fail. Episode 2, I was doing cartwheels.
I'm like, yes, why wasn't this episode 1? So, yeah, it's great. Let's just be honest. No one wants to join the original era except for me.
Because the bears weren't on. You're right. That's true. I was texting you guys.
Don't tell us anything. I know you were texting. I kind of had it. I knew what was going on.
You're bouncing back. I was bouncing back. Sorry, you're real. That's okay.
That's fine. What Jesus said. So before we get into this, there's a couple points that I think I texted you about that I was wondering if we'd seen this episode. I didn't think of the last time we did a podcast.
One, will we see Dillinger? Awesome character. Bank robber. Chicago connections.
All that stuff. He's around this time. I want to see Dillinger. Then I looked it up.
He's in jail. He's in jail. He's in jail almost this entire time. He won't be out until like 30 or so.
One or two. I think he was killed in 33 at the bike raft or something like that. Here's the deal. I don't think we would have seen him if he wasn't.
You don't know what the story would have been. I suspect he could have been a pro-stactor. But I think it would have been too much of a throw in. Probably.
Because he was such a big character at the time and a fun guy to have in. Why not? They have Kennedy for Christ's sake. Whatever.
What may have been. Alright. Wow. Mama bear.
Another thing I knew about. Boo. I had seen the episodes. Except for the first season, we see almost no cops.
There's no police whatsoever, any of these shows. The first season we have it, because Eli is a. He's the chair. I bet he's.
He has the whole thing. He's in the jet season. Well, at all. He's in the FBI.
There's pro-vis. He's. FBI guys. I'm a probation train.
He's right. He's right. The cops are either bought off or just nonexistent. Maybe just to tell the story.
I think for that, an interesting. I don't know. Organized crime isn't usually bothered by school. I guess.
But they're still out in the open. Well, I mean, obviously there seems some poatical license, right? I mean, all the stuff around Atlantic City involves cops, but just on the periphery with Eli, and you do have the Jip season where there's a lot of police involved in that episode. And then that season across the board.
I'll give you that. But Chicago, we haven't really seen much. There's no doubt about that. New York, we haven't seen a little heroin bust, but that was all kind of...
I'm not concerned about that. It's not the only thing I thought it was an observation. Sure. Talk to that observation.
So back to episode three. We opened with, I thought, one of the more interesting scenes, or combination of scenes, maybe in the whole series. And that's the chalky and buck breaking into the house, and the two hostage ladies and that whole thing. I was surprised by that.
I mean, I didn't think I was where I was headed. That was unusual. I thought they were, for sure, going to a safe house, or some sort of safe haven that Buck knew about. I didn't know he was trying to rob somebody you knew from a previous life, right?
So... Well, that became apparent when he said, oh, I thought you said this. These people would be gone or something. There's people here.
Once they came to the house, yeah, that means... Up until that point. You knew they were going somewhere. I didn't think it was the endgame.
I like to tell the show them to scarf them down a few days. But I really appreciated that arc within this episode. It really... Oh, yeah.
It created a lot of tension, and it knew something was going to happen. But I don't know about you guys, but I was not quite sure how that was going to play out. No. I mean, I had a feeling he was going to whack Buck eventually.
I thought that that was coming the whole time. But it was like the whole lead up to it. Because there was this whole, like, you know, talking was showing how he really wasn't, you know, he really wasn't. He was different from Buck.
But then when he had the chance to sort of leverage that, he said, no, no, I'm exactly the same. Right. But he is a broke, broke ass. Broke, broke ass.
You broke in many ways. Yeah, I mean, he's done. He is just, I mean, it's so sad that his life, and he's so bitter, so bitter. But he's on the downside.
He's got nothing to lose. Totally. Even at his lowest point, you can see how he is different from almost everybody. He sits back, he listens, he waits, and listens and waits, and he's looking for the right angle.
He's not going to act on the impulsive... Yes, he is very reserved. Right. And he is very calculated.
He is the stoic impression of, Mom always said, you know, you got two ears and one mouth using him in proportion. I say that when I coach my kids. Right. He's like, every damn practice.
He can't really say that. I do. It is a great thing. And you can really see how a guy like Chalky throughout the entire series has been able to survive and thrive.
And sometimes even when he's at his down points, he's able to see through the, you know, the quote unquote bullshit. Yeah. And really map things out. So he's a thinker.
He's a great thinker. That's what I love about this character. He's... He might be my favorite character from the entire series.
Yeah. He seems to be coming to you. Yeah. Unless something else happens, it was unusual.
So anyway, going along with the episode, we see some of that, sort of setting up that whole... Much of that stuff we just talked about. We have a quick little flashback to Young Nucky working for the Commodore. You know, that thread.
I'm not a huge fan of it, but I get it. They're trying to establish the backstory and the reasons for Nucky being new. He is. Can we ask the question about the young girl that he has to crush on?
Who is that? Is it? No. She's way too young.
You sure? In the TV show, Boardwalk Empire, clearly Nucky is well older than Jillian. No. I don't know about that.
I don't agree. No? I do not agree. I got more of the impression that they were peers.
I think historically they are. I'm not sure that Jillian is a historical character, but Nucky at this time was 40 or whatever. In this show, Steve Bishani is clearly 60 or whatever. No, he's not.
Right? Yeah. No, he's not. He's somewhere in the same 15.
Look at the guy. Eli's got a kid that's 18 years old, so he's probably 40. This is true. I don't know.
I understand. Look at Steve Bishani. He's got a kid that even though she had him at 13, who was 20 or something when he died, right? 25?
All right. 25. Maybe that's her. I thought that it was...
I thought the young Nucky and Jillian supposedly didn't jive with the two people I see on screen as adults. Well, yeah. All right. We'll talk about it.
Yeah. But I do think it's interesting because she also came from an... That girl came from an affluent... Yeah.
...athluent. ...athluent. And she was precocious. She was quite precocious.
And she was charming. I think there's more to that storyline. So the idea that he could have this sort of like crush on her on some level and at the same time would be responsible for damaging her could. Assuming that's her...
I mean, that's a whole... That could explain a lot about Jimmy and everything else. Anyway, I will be interested to see how that follows. Please don't, right?
I wondered if anyone had the same idea, sounds like I did. I did. I thought the same. I did.
I dismissed it. I mean, there's no way that... I think it could be true. I did.
I did and I didn't dismiss it, but I wasn't sure. So let's see where it goes, right? Interesting. Anyway, please.
Now, carry on. Then we go... Smash cut to Nucky and Mickey. Oh my god.
Mickey. Mickey's a great... I want a kick in that. He just survived.
And you guys find a guy... Cooled in on a window too. I mean, I love that he used to have a Slavic name and change the Doyle to Mickey Doyle. Right.
To make money, because that's what you made. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, he was crazy how he's soldering into that little work group where he got...
When Nucky tells him to go get the get the workers, which I think is hilarious. First of all, it's like you don't know what to do. Just make it happen. Right.
I can't even believe that Nucky's got this numb skull around him that just can't... And that he survived for so long. Yeah, exactly. But anyway...
So can I even know? You know, in a way... Look, he's like a cockroach is really what he is. Mickey Doyle is your perfect example of a survivor who leeches off in whatever he can, finds the right angle, stays out of enough trouble to make some money by the guy...
He's just smart enough to not get killed, exactly. As far as his intelligence goes. Yeah, that is pretty much it. He doesn't benefit out of it almost ever.
He just sort of survives. Right. Right. But when he chose to do nine men instead of eight, because the guy just said I'm just hungry...
Well, I'll give you what he said. I'll give you half of my pay. Yes, you're right. Right?
So it was a twofold thing. Yeah. I thought that was very... But you could tell that he was a little...
Yeah, I mean, I could be like the kid. I was like a guy like a nice little hungry. Me and I have been freaking bourbon on ice. Are they drinking soup or whatever?
I did cheat a little bit and looked up Mickey Doyle, the historical figure. Oh my god. And if that kid is who I think he is, he may become Mickey's own bodyguard and then play a role in Mickey's future. Well, interesting.
So we'll see. Time will come. Because they obviously were setting up to be something. He was going to do something somewhere.
Right, they obviously did. Because he was... Who knows how big that role is? So...
Well, let's hold on that. Expand it. I'm not going to Mickey at the club. I'm always confused.
Is that club? That's... Is that the big dance club? Or is this a different sort of...
Nucky is sort of a... Strip or count? High quarters. I think we moved on for a bit.
That's just blown up. Right. Right. This is obviously a different...
I never catch the name of it or the front of it. They haven't shown it. Yeah. Because I was looking to.
And there's a new office for Nucky. It's a new, like, look. He's got the windows. He's got the girls downstairs.
We saw it last season, but I was never sure. You know, that was the one that Chalki was running for a while. And you know what I said. So, Sally Lee calls and gives Nucky an update.
And that was a quick little call there. I sort of even zoned out of that point. I know. I know.
You were zoned out of that. But it's fun. Sweet how to... Right.
Yeah. In a key piece of information that we found, what we would have found out anyway. That Senator that Nucky was trying to woo for the repeal of probation is out of picture. He's no longer involved.
Right. But I don't think that's the end of the story. Right. Now, Nucky said that Kennedy is the new big fish.
Kennedy is the guy he's after to try to benefit off of. And last week Kennedy was introduced to us in this week, boy. He had took a time in there. I remember Brendan saying last week that he helps, said he's going to see Joe Kennedy just be a dick.
Yeah. And boy he wasn't dead. He's a liver. He's good.
He's good. I actually find this actor very charming. Without question. He's good.
When you guys were saying that you thought that about Joe Kennedy and how he's always been portrayed, I think this is probably the most positive this guy's ever been portrayed. Because he's always... Oh, yeah. You always see him as an older man who's just bitter and horrible.
And he seemed to me to be very, Corleone. And he seemed to be doing it for the family. You know, I mean, he definitely has his priorities. I mean, talk about a guy who's driven.
So I particularly enjoyed that exchange where he didn't... He showed them that he doesn't drink in public. Right. I think he drinks in private.
Yeah, let's not jump ahead on that one. Okay. So Kennedy's a whole... Kennedy could be a really big part of this whole season.
I mean, he's major, right? I'm certainly well-billed. I have no doubt. Yeah.
He's a fun character. I know how you are about going in chronological orders. Only because I have a note for each little scenes. I don't want to just...
I don't want to be a backtrack. Let's talk. So... That figure.
Not literally figure them. We jumped to Margaret. This is a symptom of me taking notes in real time during the episode. Yeah.
That's a problem. That's a problem. I know. Margaret.
Margaret. I press it on. Did I call it? Yeah.
Money that I count the entire time. Go back to the episode one. I said that's what she was doing. And bitch got caught.
So, A redstone. Rectified that situation. She's being interviewed by the lawyers or the brokerage officials. Whoever that she's being talked to about.
SCC. That's a C. That's a C. We'll go with that.
Okay. So, someone has drawn $111,000 from Ross' account after during the three years of the day. She's been dead. $111,000.
Why now? And that's a thing. She could have gotten off of this whole thing. Scott, for you, she'd been a little smarter about calling that.
Yeah. Who's that? Who's that? Maybe she thought it was never going to end.
I mean, I think. Even dad for how many years? But, or I mean, that's true. That's true.
I guess. Why would it be a problem? Why would it be a problem, right? Once that guy killed himself, pack up and get out of there with your hundred grand.
I mean, what is she waiting around for? I don't know why even be interviewed? I think she was trying to. I mean, that's why they showed us in the last episode was her trying to go into the file and getting kind of pinched.
Yeah. You know, she could have bailed. She wanted to just. I thought it was an interesting callback to Margaret talking about cutting a deal for the five year of the event we talked about.
Right. Right. My quite redstone. Quite possibly my favorite scene of the episode was the widow Ross team.
Yes. She was Margaret interesting. And coming clean and a great actress Shadelen, who's been around the block a few times. And it was just a very well- Shadelen.
Shadelen. Shadelen. Shadelen. Shadelen.
Was she the, was she in, um, Vegas vacation? She's in one of the vacation. Yes, she was. Okay.
I knew I saw her face somewhere. Good. So she does a good turn as the widow Ross Dean, Carole Ross Dean, right? Who is not someone to be fucked with.
Clearly. Any sense of the word, right? And she is going to get hers and she's going to get that money. You know what?
I mean, she came off as Ross Dean and she was like, she had, she knew what's going on. She knew how to play every angle. She knew what you were going to do and how she would counter it. I mean, it was pretty, that was very good.
That was very good. All right. So I'm going to go off my notes and just go to flow now at this point. All right.
Please. I'm going to try at least. I'm going to say this. So Carole wants the money in Ross Dean's account and is willing to sue Margaret who has nothing, nothing this week.
Ah, I don't know if she has nothing. She spent 111 grand. I what? She may have, but she had a certain amount of money, obviously not enough to set herself up.
You know, well, or just. I don't know. But then, but then she says, all right. If I'm not going to sue you, I'm going to sue your husband, Nucky.
And then there's the money trail. I mean, that's what this is all about. You know, that was interesting that she knew everything. She knew about Nucky and that knew they were still married.
And knew where she was living and all that. Don't underestimate the wife. I mean, it's great. I mean, do you imagine that a guy like Ross Dean would marry someone who was a total?
Yes, exactly. And I don't think he's married at all. I mean, he's twice as married at all. But it was also a product of the Times.
I mean, a Roth scene in 2010 is probably not married. A Roth scene in 1925 is right. So I also think as we've discussed in many times, in this time period, women were far more savvy than they are today. Well, they were savvy.
Their circumstances were so constrained. And marriage was an economic vehicle as much as they could be. That they knew that they really didn't have any other options. And so they had to figure out how to sort of work through the one that they had.
So I think maybe not in this, you know, I don't want to speak broadly for our women, but there are another women who are happy to lead those details to their husband today. And that probably didn't happen as much as you think it would happen back then. Especially if he had a husband who wasn't on the street. What green did Ross do?
All right. I'm a bigger than that. I was like, all right. Okay, back to Chocking Buck.
To back in the house. Now they have the two hostages. Buck is proving himself as we all knew to be super unstable and insane. And Michael, this was your, this was your creep of the week, I'm guessing.
Creep of the week, right? Totally. Well, it was actually not totally. It was a toss up between Buck and Joe Kennedy.
Damn it. So Kennedy was my creep of the week. Not mine. I'm going Buck.
I mean, Kennedy was fired. Different kind of, listen, Buck is straight. Buck, crazy. Buck, you can see coming a mile away.
Joe Kennedy, you do not. Which makes him a bigger creep. As the history books tell us, we have a lot of, from 1931 until 2014, we have tons of data on Joe Kennedy. And we know he was a fuck.
He was scumbag, right? I don't know if scumbags the right word. He was definitely a fucking rum runner. He was a rum runner.
Did the cut happen? The cut, the cut, the cut, the brain out. Right. I mean, he plays Irish turn, comes in.
No. Oh, God. I hate the fact that I'm Irish and I have to defend the Kennedy. I mean, it's like a curse.
I have to add it's like. I know you're joking. All right. So, yeah.
I have to. They're from Boston. Actually, what I was saying about Kennedy earlier was, I do think that it was, I think this shows him in a better life than he's ever been portrayed. He's still a jerk.
He can't take the jerk out of it. But he's usually seen as being totally ruthless and just, he seems much more human. All right. But is he not singular in focus?
Yes. I mean, that's who he was. And his whole, you know what my favorite scene in this was? But you do get a sense that he is on a mission.
Of course, he's on a mission. But the complete and utter shamelessness of him shaming Nucky about not having pictures around and not doing this. Joe Kennedy was a guy who did not give a shit about his family. Oh, I don't know about that.
He gave a shit about his family, but not in respect that we give a shit about our families. We want our kids to be happy and do well. He only wanted success for the Kennedy name. He didn't give a shit about his kids.
I don't know about that. Oh, I don't know. Can I get some backhandness? I tend to think that way.
I thought he was more about almost like empirical success. Like lineage. He wanted to have eight people succeed him because that was more ketties to be involved in politics and this and that, whatever. He wanted to be, he wanted to build his brand.
Yeah. So he looked at it. I think people had a lot of kids in those days because they were of course, they didn't. Of course, they didn't.
He wasn't a kid of four of them. But he looked at his kids as commodities. He did not look at them as... I think that he and his man...
And that comes out later in how he treats Jack. He may have had any wars. And how he, and even more so, who was one who died more to... Joe.
Joe, Joe Jr. Who was really the one who he wanted to be the man, right? Right, right. And Jack had to take that man's all because Joe was killed in...
But I don't think that he's not a success for his kids. So he could preserve his lineage. Although maybe that's... Oh, I do.
I do think that he wanted success for his kids and he was somewhat skewed about what that would mean. I disagree. I think he... I think he'd be happy if they were this, that they...
I think... I think... If Joe Kennedy, if you were to take his ass off on Nantucket or wherever he's buried right now, he would be thrilled at the fact that the Kennedys are talked about in the life that they're talking about now. Not that they're talked about in a positive light or a negative light, just that they're being talked about.
And they always will be, right? I don't know. I don't know. I think that was more of his...
Monterner. Maybe I'm sympathetic to him as a previous owner of the Munchiness one. Let's come back to this. That scene basically ends the episode.
I want to come back to that. Yes. Because that's when I will do my now clearly classic unusual random comparisons of what I'm talking about. I'm looking for it.
So I've got one that ties into that last scene, so we'll hit Kennedy again. Definitely looking forward to it. So Chucky and Buck, with the hostages... Chucking Buck?
Chucking Buck. Chucking Buck. Chucky. I think I saw them play in New Orleans in 1983.
Chucky and Buck. So all right, Buck is not... Chucky's biting his time just waiting. Fantastic.
The part I wasn't clear on early on is... Buck keeps saying and thinking he's been there before. Has he or are they in the wrong house? No, they're...
Because he's got that huge... They're not in the right house. I think they were in the right house. I think they were in the right house.
I think they were in the right house. I think they jockeyed some things around the house. Like they used to have the safe in the basement, and they moved it upstairs, and they did this, and they did that. Longer than they were not.
They're not there anymore. It's not a part of the lie. Yeah. I love this whole arc because it's...
You can feel that tension just rising and rising, right? It's like your blood pressure goes up the entire time. And what amazed me is that the times were obviously so desperate, right? That the implication was that he's gone, whether he's gone gone or almost a mercy leaving.
Because they were obviously destitute. It is amazing to me that that is truly all they had in the world, and they were willing to take that shit as long as they took it. Before they gave up the fact, oh yeah, I'll open the safe. And then she goes through all that shit so that he can get some Liberty bonds.
I know. Like why did she do that? Well, I mean, the Liberty bonds weren't a lot of money. Wasn't it really desperate?
It was a lot of money. It was the big deal. No, and it wasn't even all they had. It was the pressure.
It was the pressure. It was the pressure. There was no end in sight, right? So this scene made me think of two people and two things.
There are two people in this whole series who at the same time are the most often underestimated. And the people who should never ever be underestimated. And it's Chalky and Nucky. Totally.
Everyone always thinks that they're not paying attention. They're not doing this. They're always trying to undercut them. And they're always three steps ahead.
Five steps ahead. They always know what's going on. And they always come up and they get their just do. Well, do you notice, if you notice in the entire series, when you introduce a character, you introduce a new person into a given scene.
And Chalky and Nucky are involved. Who's always doing the talking? It's not, not right? It's always about how they're using the two ears one mouth.
They're here, right? And they're constantly assessing what's going on. So I think the beauty of that whole scene at the home with the wife and the mother or the mother and the daughter is it really shows the true character of Chalky. And that he knows the whole time that he is going to take Buck out.
Yeah. It's just a matter of when and it's a matter of how and it's a matter of opportunity. Yeah, opportunity. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when, right?
And but it builds so well. And you can see Chalky. You can see the wheels spinning. While he's not talking.
He's not going to allow this to go south. Right. He does not want this to turn into a blood bath. A lot of that's the answer.
Michael Pay Williams. I mean, he does an amazing job. And let's sweet that. I mean, we will.
He's our, he's so far one of our Twitter friends. Anyway, okay. Now we come to one of the more interesting meetings. And that's Narcisse.
Narcisse finally makes a clear answer. Oh, my buddy. Mike's. He's actually crystallized some things for me about why Narcisse is still around and why he wasn't eliminated as Michael suggested.
Originally, because I was on Michael's team there. So that doesn't seem like it would have been that hard to get him out. But I appreciated this thing because the wealthy and Bugsy walked in like they were going to go and psych himself and offer him. And he basically said no.
And you know what? He's right. What are they going to do? Right.
Harlow? Right. I mean, this segregation alone is going to prevent them from having anything to do with it. Or being able to gain any control over it unless they have their season.
Narcisse has enough gumption to say. That's true. No, not going to have to do what they want without him. They can't.
He's their only way to do it. And it's interesting to me that he's basically taken a knucky playbook or whatever game-star playbook. Yeah. I would say.
Instead of a parallel universe for himself in Harlow. He knows none of them are going to be. And now I'm going to be able to handle it. And he says, let me go figure this out.
I actually find him, as we said many times, 10 times more disgusting than any of the other guys. Because he was so, I don't know what the word is. He's praying so much on the degradation and addiction of the people that he is mourning over. Where, you know, it seems more of a victim of a kind of knucky when you're talking about those.
You know what I mean? He's for the uplifting of the Libyan man. Michael? He would be.
He would be. He would be. Thank you. You know something.
I was. Can we get into that? Could we get into that? Could seem to boil that down, Narcisse.
To boil that down. Previously had a deal with Marzaria to sell heroin, Lucky and Bubsy, obviously killed. Marzaria. And say, Marzano wants the same deal.
Marzano. Marzano says, he wants to write. He wants the deal to continue. Narcisse turns them down saying, basically, you're in Harlow.
Yeah. Get out of here. What are you going to do? Yeah.
So they're going to take him. Right. I mean, they're going to do everything they can to make his like miserable. I don't know that.
They're going to have the pressure on it, but he's already lost a lot. I don't know what they can. Well, in order to just tie up the story here, they did put when Narcisse told them to pack the bags and thanks, but now thanks, they did end up going to one of his houses of El Ru Peru and shooting it up. Everybody inside of it.
So there was a clear message sent that we gave you an opportunity to play nice. And he didn't. So we're going down. But I still feel like Narcisse having absolutely no solo whatsoever is going to be like, yeah, I don't think that doesn't mean he can turn it for him.
Yeah. And what are they going to do to shoot everything? Right. They will.
He's got people that are so desperate. They'll, I mean, I don't see it being a real serious. But they're desperate too. So I mean, I really do see them forcing this and turning it into World War III.
I mean, that's kind of my position on it is, is the whole Charlie Luciano and Banks Eagle versus Dr. Narcisse in Harlem is going to be an interesting point through the next four or five series episodes, right? It's going to become this struggle, this power struggle. It's really a challenge.
I mean, I would bet on Narcisse. I won't. I would. I would always bet on the day goes.
Oh my god. Now we're going to go to the boy card. Ha ha ha. I didn't mean that for my Italian friends out there.
They're going to say the same thing. They would. They would. Of course they would.
They would. They would. They would. They would.