Welcome to episode 1 of the Pubcast. My name is Brendan O'Neill and I would normally be joined by Mike Cross and Michelle Riley. From these first few episodes we are revisiting our previous podcast, Boardwalk Breakdown. Basically we're shutting down the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast and moving those 13 episodes over here so we can keep them alive and well in our archives.
So the Pubcast is our new podcast where we'll talk about all kinds of stuff and not be limited to only talking about Boardwalk Empire and we'll actually begin on episode 14. So just consider these first 13 episodes as bonus content. Slantja. Welcome to the Boardwalk Breakdown podcast featuring Michelle Riley, Mike Cross, and me Brendan O'Neill.
If you have any comments or questions you can contact us on Twitter at Boardwalk Break. Enjoy the show. Episode 5. Before we start we have our first Foresome, for our podcast.
We have our friend Tim who's adding to our threesome here. So say hello to the film. Hello, Tim Dra. Welcome.
We're working in the dark the first way. We have a disaster. Alright, let's jump into it then. First of all we have to say that last week we had a technical snap through.
We recorded the episode 4 podcast and everything was great until it came time to save it and use it and nothing worked. So I just want to say for the record that was my best work. It was my pleasure. I thought it was really bad.
I thought it was my most brilliant episode. So of course I think I was sabotaged. By the minute. By the minute.
By the minute. Of course. Anyway, this episode was I think better. It was better because it was 2 or 3 episodes packed into one.
It was actually packed. This is the pace that we talked about at the beginning. I knew that would come eventually. Yeah.
Is that? We've got three hours left. Correct? Yeah.
It was maybe 3.5. They're going to have to fast forward a lot of the stuff and the rapping sounds like that. And I will say too and maybe you can see this point. The flashbacks were particularly important this week.
Well not so favorite of Brendan O'Neill. Right, but not favorite. Are you going to cop to that in this episode that this was important in the realm of what's going on in today, 1932 today? I still like that for the present day.
I have to say though that, and we'll get into all of the details, but I am particularly curious about Mabel and who I assume is his wife because it's obvious that she's got a lot more to do with this story than we imagined. Yeah, absolutely. And you seem to get the sense that this is key to understanding why Nucky is the way he is today. And I can't say it with 100% certainty, but it feels like maybe the preview had her for next week.
Yeah, I think. Maybe it's a flashback. No, it makes it sound like maybe in the present day. Oh, maybe in the present day.
I figure maybe maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe. She's gone. I don't know if she can.
But I think the flashbacks are all culminating to the death of Mabel and I thought she was pregnant. I thought they had a baby. Well. Or she died during childbirth or her pregnancy.
She may just be gone. That baby may be somewhere. We don't know anything. Wow.
Anyway, I feel like that's going to be a very big, you know, foundational guide post and story. Well, I think anything it'll tell a lot about what we've all thought. And that said, Nucky is constantly looking for this or pining for this, even though he doesn't know that he necessarily wants it. He can feel that pull.
Yeah. They kind of be pull. Yeah, I have a million children. So we open with Nucky being the deputy sheriff.
Yeah. And there's under the boardwalk when they find a pig. Obviously, a hog. A hog.
That was weird. Yeah. That was really weird. Okay.
Great dental prosthetic. I thought this thing. Absolutely. I saw him on Twitter getting a lot of.
What he nailed it. I think he nailed it. Yeah. The whole man has a mouth.
Yeah. So is that Buschami, you know, 30 years ago or what? Right. I mean, pretty damn close.
Pretty close. Yeah. They did a great casting. So this was really revealing.
He really shows his potential to the sheriff and to the Commodore by making a suggestion of how they handle things, but deputizing the 20 guys. Right. And it was a nice pick up from the previous episode with Mr. Lasky saying deputy.
Yeah. And then we see a little exchange between the Commodore and this Mr. Haligan, who's like basically fucking stuff up at the Commodore. He's defying him or standing his way.
And you can tell he's obviously gonna get whacked in some way. It's just a matter of time and how and when. I like the idea of Nucky sort of being the background and keeping his aura growing as the deputy sheriff. He's speaking up more than the sheriff is.
Right. Yeah. I mean, he seems like he's making his move here. He wants to be seen as the guy in front of the Commodore.
Right. Absolutely. And he eventually will. And I like how he is going to be.
Yes. And I'd like to add, I'm not concerned editorialized about, you know, there's nothing illegal about it. Right. We're just gonna, we're just gonna enforce the vacancy laws here.
Get rid of the undesirable character. The undesirable. Yes. And then, all right.
So then not the amiable. Yeah. The undesirable. The undesirable.
The unreliable. The unreliable. The unreliable. The inevitable.
The inevitable. The inevitable. The inevitable. So there's no question.
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.
So there's a pretty big thing in the story line. You're able to have lunch with your father. Mr. Jepides.
And, I'm not going to talk about having a plan to get rich. Into the city. Helping the city grow, his ambitions for staying local and becoming a big part of Atlantic city, and the dad obviously doesn't think favorably, or nothing. And, no.
No. And then the father drops a line that almost verbatim is said later in the story by different characters And I think this is the theme of the episode although I have a snappy comparison This is the theme of that episode and it was the father says I don't think you know what you are and that comes up later with another character Oh, most of the characters that we follow in this episode don't know who they are or they are hiding They are well, they're realizing who they are. Well, I think that's a matter for for Nucky's like right And one of the part of that scene and I want to jump away from that too quickly But the part that really grabbed me was when the father tells him well prove it, you know prove it to him. Yeah, prove it to yourself Yeah, and you know, I think this is just you know more affirmation that Nucky was this character growing up who really didn't have a leg up And now he's starting to see the avenue out right and he also sees in a beautiful way that in this particular point in time in our History life was a zero-sum game right there had to be a winner and a loser Yeah, so even says the father we're fighting over the same thing and one of us is gonna lose Yeah, that's like super confident young that's right and he is super confident But the way that even says it it's not like he's saying in a smart me way He's saying it as if that's just life body deal with it, right?
Yeah, and it made it feel like he I mean is not that far below in social stature to this guy I mean obviously was significantly below because significantly otherwise this wouldn't have been such a heavy cereal thing Sure, of course, he was the court kid with the top father's like who they're going down at him and and Nucky feels it Yeah, and why is he gonna heal of this lunch? He goes to the sheriff and says I want to help you with all the converts He wants to start doing extra work legal or not to build his money build his power become build his kind of ability Really dramatic that it did. Yeah, I thought it was it was odd that it came in the night I thought it was a foreseen I don't think I needed to do it I think they could have worked it in somewhere else I will say that That flashback we've debated this on this podcast many times as to whether he and Jillian are closer in age Brendan's maintain That he's significantly older than Jillian and Michael and I sort of argue with the same names But this flashback sort of indicates that Jillian must be younger than me because if she was 13 when she got pregnant Right, right? But that's not necessarily the case because they just haven't necessarily shown us that side the Condor Right, but he's working up to this is a very ugly older than Jillian was when she met the I thought this might have been Nucky a 13 making it happen.
It's not I'm not gonna I think they have indicated Commodore's Interest in young women that previous episode which was before they laid out the map I know 12 13 year old girls that I'm We actually talked about that last week in the last time the last time The last time that was creepy Yeah, very creepy And if you weren't paying attention to me, absolutely That was great That was great That was right in the head of the writing my notes during the episode Yeah, yes it was It was like 1897 So this is like 1897. This is roughly 14 15 years after the previous So he's 25 Maybe between 20 and 25 Yeah, so based on the Commodore's collection for young girls Although she's not young enough I Leaps the conclusion that maybe he makes a move on Mabel Come Makes Nucky which eventually makes the Nucky turn against them somehow Mabel gets killed in this couple and that's why they're against each other And that's how Nucky turns on a Commodore the Commodore goes to jail. That's an interesting play But that's we gotta see how that was obvious But it's but it was sort of it was already sort of thrown out there that the Commodore went to jail or something around complizzing I'm not sure that was the thing And we also know that the Commodore is not into 20 year old girls. He's in the right 12 year old 13 year old girls.
He's not That's his flavor, but it was well. It'll be interesting to see how that could have been the wedge between the two could be There are a number of opportunities there's a lot of ways. Yeah One of many and then so this storyline basically winds down with Nucky under the boardwalk again finding another body because time It's not a hog. It's hell get me a guy who was in the cometer's way The guy who the guy with the 50 Yeah There's definitely symbolism there between the two because that guy was kind of a hog trying to get you know He's all backed up.
Yes, I actually read that this was The problem That had to be one of the most Half of it this way sideways quick, but that was crazy how they opened it was amazing. It was amazing. It was a fantastic Introduction to an episode without question. Yes What did they say?
No one of my favorite moments this season of like hey, we're bringing on a character It was very All right, the phone trying to take a shit and we find out all the usual information we know about the phone at this time He's under investigation by the IRS for Right he wants to get out and get out the system right away all the way out Which is a bit upsetting to the Oh And then he also mentioned sort of in passing that he did Warren Nucky about with you know, and that was the first time we heard that we knew it The next storyline pops up because that was a quick little one right, but I thought it was interesting with the cockroach Oh, yeah Later when the That was the person like this Yeah He is And we see one of our favorites Mickey Doyle and his his boy turn body yard whatever that kid is he's lucky I think he is either Tommy Darmody. Yeah, Jimmy's kid. Yep. Jimmy and The one that I think because what why else are you picking this random 17 year old kid?
Right I think he's Tommy Darmody because that little kid has been like all the episodes in some way shape or form Either as a little baby or with that, you know, what's the thing goes crazy and kills all those people in the whorehouse It could be him or until you said this a few minutes ago. Michelle. It could also be Nucky's Osprey interesting because he's got to be pivotal that that kid or it's Joel right? I don't know that I'm on board with Nucky's kid.
I think Darmody might be a little bit more of a So full disclosure, I actually did some web and I've been meeting other people's sort of recap episodes I think I took a look at As I called the vulture the writer's name is Craig Lindsey and he was particularly I really liked what he had to say I also looked at Rolling Stone and New York Times. I usually look at Um, the blogosphere the comment world a lot of people are in the camp that this must be Tommy Darmody. Yeah Yeah, so that did not occur to me. It could just be a random guy who becomes Doyle Doyle's personal funky guy I believe historically his body yard plays a role in Mickey Doyle's death which happens Hopefully we'll see that yeah We're gonna know I know he's a fan of the podcaster I Love how all the characters that are coming back to see Nucky are like I love it I love that.
I love the part of this in that I don't know if I'm getting ahead the part of the episode when the the Marshall comes yeah, yeah, well we're getting there Okay Shockey is seen in Nucky's office in a nice suit and Shockey's like, you know, oh, it's nice to be back in my old juke joint or whatever he says Obviously Nucky ran that Shockey I think you call the Nucky Drink and Jackie said no So we Shockey catches up on his life. I think before he was in the chain game I think he talks about maybe afterwards, but I think there's no time for that I think he's telling Nucky what he did in the past seven years. He talks about robbing gas stations storefronts and doing his thing with the sort of No, no, no, no Time that chunky just because he's not here any I feel with and then I ended up in jail which and I think he even said not that I didn't deserve it And we found out that he was in Maryland in jail, which we didn't Yeah Oh These two are gonna come back They're gonna come back with a vengeance and these I think I think that's how but this goes back to my idea of the theme of identity and changing Evolving and all that. Nucky is a different giant chalky than he was Similar but like a different level what I like about it is the evolution of the two characters So they both are way different places on the word 10 years ago, right?
But there's still that mutual respect between so Kind of lives on and even though they haven't seen each other and we know how long they're still And look at how Nucky treats chalky after a few minutes and how he's been treating Mickey Doyle I mean, they just one good respect one does absolutely well. I actually hate to mix storylines here But this conversation is bringing something else with what's so funny and we're gonna get to Eli and Nelson later No, my family Another great but those two I mean who knew that they were gonna end up being the you know enduring love story of the entire show The Jerry But they love each other I mean he sits there and tells them how he had this um and I'm borrowing this from someone I saw drunken Newner yeah, and he hasn't drunken nooner with his wife Now we're in this together. I mean no one gives a shit and it's funny because there is sort of this brotherhood between the two and I kind of You know, I didn't really think about this until now so I see that anymore somber in mature way between Nucky and chalky Where it's kind of like you screwed me over I screwed you over or terrible people but you know what there's a lot of water under the spray And that's me the flag bread and that's when he sort of you know, this is between friends Right the money when Nucky gets choppy the money so to backtrack a second to let me introduce to Eli in Chicago drunk a mess His wife shows up. He's coming.
He's out of control. The odd dreams come back. Yeah, he's got her dreams She shows up flash minutes. She's seven months pregnant.
She is PG from the last time in town. Holy With their I don't know Make a baseball team it's ridiculous. So Now this is where we learn I think to the contrary what I thought before that he's on the run He's not officially there with Nucky's business He's just ostracized he's not part of a man Yeah, and I thought the underlast season Nucky sent him to Chicago. I thought that's how we didn't Reproheads around whether he was sent there The way he talks in this one it implies differently.
Maybe she's a cover for wife and who knows? But all right we get a couple details out of the way just to catch us up. Um, he he wants a family to move with him to Chicago Uh, life says June Well, she says but your brother wouldn't keep sending the money if we move He like says don't touch that money. Um, my life is has nothing to do with it.
So, you know, we're separate Yeah, I'm getting something. Yeah, I'm telling a big thing here now. Um, so I was very confused I'm assuming he's on his own and Nucky was just helping out the family just to help out the family Right because he kind of well, he's got a relationship with the Elijah's oldest, right? So maybe he's just trying to keep things sometimes someone's reality I know I was wrong.
I think he cares for that family. Oh, I think I think in his way. Yeah, he does I think I think in that a little bit deeper into it I think there's some some level of of want and need to have that in his life He lies alive because he cares about family Well, is there is there is there some kind of cadence that we're even missing here between the kind of storyline where he says Joe Kennedy says a few episodes back. I want to have nine because I'm a fellow baseball player.
I mean, he lies having his nine, right? And he's not having a baseball team, please. He's breaking a tie of four boys for girls. Right.
So I think they're I think this is an overriding theme that Nucky is still to this day. It's 1932 ish and he's this standalone guy, right? He's got this white man. So on the family level, Eli has more time with Tendi than Nucky.
Totally without question. Nucky more insane without question. So if Joe Kennedy were to meet Eli and it just happened to be a random moment. They would be like this.
That's hilarious. The fact that he lies over it. It's good. I didn't catch the night.
That's awesome. Okay. Now we smash cut to dinner at the Van Alden's. Oh my god.
This is this kind of lady. It's the same of the week. Had a great quote where he called him. Who knew that this was going to be who's afraid of Virginia Woolf's moment?
Right. But the dinner was the most ridiculous. I think this is a spin off sitcom. Oh sure.
Spin off sitcom. This would be great. No one, I said it before I think, but no one does angry, frustrated, comedically, like Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon might be one of the most great actors.
But that's what it's so hilarious is that the wife is frustrated. The children are frustrating. The worst thing that could possibly happen is you find out that your guest at dinner has just left it your way. At the end of the day, he's still trying to figure out how to make a buck with this guy.
I mean, it's all believable. I love it. Michelle, you appreciate this a little bit. So we get a scene of, I think before the scene even, we see anything sort of fading in from black.
You hear the kid playing the recorder? Yes. In my wife's family, the recorder holds a special place in hell because my mother was a music teacher and all the kids have a musical background in some way. And there was always recorders everywhere.
There was a giant recorder in the house. Record a recorder recorder. So when this happened, I liked it. It was really good.
I was with all of it. I had to isolate it and I had to put it all the time. I just said, you know, it sounds so much better if you were playing it further away. Ferther than some much better further away.
That was amazing. Then we get Eli and Penaldin discussing Luciano recognizing Ben Aldin to pose Capone's potential reaction and Ben Aldin says, obviously Eli, you'll be able to get it too. We're both. Right.
We're in this again. We got to figure this out. Then I'm going to say quote of the episode that comes up or it's sub-scene of the episode coming in. Ben Aldin looking menacing in Aldin and Lori.
Sort of looking past the camera. It's like, it's really angry and sort of morose. I refuse to rule by fear. And immediately his wife turns in husband.
Yes, yes. Yes, yes. He's not sure. In two seconds.
I would choose to be ruled by fear. And he's often, you know, caw-towing too. I actually lost the show at that moment and laughed. Because I'm like, I've got to rewind and watch that.
We re-mound it and watch it five times. It was so uncroutable. What's his wife's name? Like, nevermind.
Secret. Secret. Secret. Secret.
My purpose is I call her Ingrid. Like, not remember. Ingrid's close enough. The Old Norwegian Nanny.
Yes. So we have dinner. I'm comfortable with what we talked about this. Ingrid is hitting on Eli a little bit in front of everybody.
Yeah, very weird. She's done with the Elden. She's she's she's she's she's she's. And she's furious with with Eli.
Would you have to wonder why did this one give a shit about you? I know. But it's not to hurt her husband. That I understand if it's just sort of like to hurt him.
But it wasn't. It was obviously like she seemed missed that Eli would bring his wife there. Yeah. But I thought earlier in the episode Eli told June that while we're not going to the restaurant, the Chop House, my partner's wife invited us for dinner.
So I think it was. I think it was totally set up. Right. It was totally set up.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know maybe. I mean, and I could see in the context of that time that Nelson just saying, OK, they're coming to this. So I think this was pre I think it was a moment where Secret was going to she was going to blow the lid off of all this.
She's had enough. She can't stand the kids. I love how they told the children too that the their mother was a valor. Yeah.
And that not that shit crazy Lucy. Yeah. Yeah. I was a ballerina.
I like that line. Yeah. But I think this was totally set up by her. Yeah.
And she's just looking for a reason to blow things up. Oh, she was so out there. Yeah. You must have accomplished.
E.I.C. is the photo he remembers having sex with. Secret. Secret.
A song. A song. A song. A song.
And then the the the the the prohibition's what's the name the probably spy in Capone's gang comes in. He had a dance. Yeah. He had a dance.
Yeah. And he takes them away. Takes away. Been all in and Eli in and they're in the office and been all in just shooting daggers at Eli.
Oh, yeah. That's what I thought was so funny. Especially when they're in the interrogation room. They they had just come from what would be an any other person the most polarizing thing that can happen.
And they were basically like Laurel and Harder. Yeah. And have a drag out together. And yeah.
But I think we also need to give a nod to the poster being the king of Norway, which ties in with the right right right and that was the impetus for the flashback. All right. So at the FBI office, Eli is complaining or just trying to tell Ben Alden, you know, I've got the worst in you. And Eli says, my life is a fucking shipwreck and Ben Alden goes well, land on another break.
Land on another. He always gets the fans lines. He's making a play. He's trying to get in front of Chalky for my favorite character.
He's making an out of it. I loved how he used the old, oh, it was an accident. And he goes through the arm mistake. Yeah.
Kind of like who a guy gets his head caught in a place. It was all the things that he had done. Yeah. I wasn't wrong with that.
No, he's like the mistake when I, you know, like he described like the time he killed what's in Irish guy with the floral stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Floral shop in Albania. The explosion, you know, where there's, you know, innocent observers who get taken out. He's a medicine society. Yeah.
I think, yeah. I think, I mean, Mickey Doyle has always been right at the top of my list of favorite characters because he's so annoying. And there are so many leaders in this category of vast character within the show. Yeah.
But I think we may find over these last three episodes that Nelson becomes. I think there's a sleeper in our character. Do we need to get to that again? Or do you want to go?
No, no, no. I think we're free for him. We're not there yet. But I think Margaret is going to make a play for best characters.
And that's there. Yeah. But she's certainly putting forth enough. She's starting to laugh.
She's about to go. Well, let's talk about that. Hang on. All right.
Plot wise. We can't move him forward. Awesome. I got to just go through my particular two.
You know you can't. So that's the FBI know about their past murders. They're trying to get them to cooperate. They need to go get to Pwn's ledger tonight because they know he's moving to Cicero at any moment.
And we see a little reveal in the closet with the accountant tied up in the closet with the link to our space. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So that was creepy. Yeah. The next one in order, we don't have to go there, but would be jillion. Right.
This is a quick little one. Right. I'm just interested. Yeah.
Oh, no. This intrigates me more and more as the season goes on. I'm just interested. Um, well, it's good.
Something is going to happen. Yeah. Something has to happen with it. So this friend is going to talk about it.
Or something's going on. It's something intricate with the environment. No, no, no, no. You're right.
I'm not why are they spending so much time? Yeah. This is some isolated siloed. No, no, it's not siloed.
But I just, I'm just interested. On its face, it's an obvious corrupt sort of sanatorium. Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Right. Yes. Right. Yeah.
But there's something on it. But Charlotte, this crazy woman comes in and says, protect your first. Right. It gives her the ad for first door.
Right. It's got its first door. Right. That's it.
That's it. And it's got something to do with Nucky because when she went down with the, what shall we call her, Ward? Yeah. Before that was, she was looking at first.
So there's something is going on with that. Right. But holy shnikes. What was that incision?
So that's what I was going to ask. Did I miss what could happen? No, that doctor believes that the crazy is in your middle play and he believes in the uterus. Because you know, women are.
I thought that was too high for you to miss though. Mike, what are they cutting out? I missed a couple more. He might be one of those.
Oh, they're just this. No, but that to me, that was. In the 1930s, maybe that was. Fine.
Maybe they made the incision up there. And it might have made sense to them then. Yeah. Those incisions are going to be.
But you got to wonder when, I mean, she's obviously not. It's not as he does. He does all his passion, speech about the temporary insanity and how, you know, he's got to get the crazy out of her. But she's got to get out of here and she better figure out a plan B.
Yeah. She's getting out. I mean, I think that goes without saying. No.
Jillian meets with the doctor. Dr. Cotton. That's a creepy doctor name.
Yes, it is. Especially one that's going to be made. She basically says, you know, I made a full recovery. I'm curious.
You know, he says, no, he says, no, he says, no, we got to cure you. Whatever. And then he says, how do you, she says, I made a full recovery. The doctor says, how do you know what you are?
Again, a call back to that identity thing. Yes. And in a almost verbatim move back discussion of identity. I love that one.
So now we get to, and speaking of Dr. Cotton, and usually we end with this. But I think he was the crazy of the week. He was the only.
He was the only. The only. The only. The only.
The only. Yeah. Yeah. I actually agree with you on that, Tim.
We're going to award that. And we can preemptively strike on that. He's got to. He's got to be.
There's nobody else in the picture right now. No. No, I would definitely agree with that statement. Let's jump to Carolyn Ross in a margarita.
I will be throwing a wap at Gillian. I have to give full credit to this Rolling Stone writer, Sean Collins. Wow. This is research, Teddy.
This is him. I am really killing underprepared. No, but he, I wrote that to identify. I'm going to call her commentary.
See, I don't care what anybody else is about. I hear what we say. I care. No, but I mean, I'd rather these recaps because they spark a lot in myself.
And I do have to say that he gave a lot of love to Gillian in his article. And he basically called her this episode's emotional heart. But his logic was that her story is twisted and tragic, but it's all because of these political power players. I mean, it has been revealed that the shit person that she is, 100% built.
Yeah, she was built to be this last one. Obviously, we've known that and bits and pieces on Alon. But I mean, it was revealed in this episode that she just got fucked at every corner. All that she did in the world, granted.
But she was built that way. That's for sure. And I don't disagree with that. But the emotional heart of the episode is a Rolling Stone writer trying to be a contrarian.
It was starting to be the same. All right. Moving in. Just my thought.
Not the Kennedy's. Not the Kennedy's. Don't even start. We didn't even get you.
All right. We didn't get you. We didn't get you. Yeah.
We didn't get enough. OK. You're off. Carolyn Rothstein and Margaret.
I have to say that. Mine have had my favorite scene. I think it might have been my two. Yes.
Without the question. When the lawyer objects to her parameters with a check. No. Carolyn, and she basically says, no, this is the only deal.
Carolyn doesn't batonize. She's been down this road before. And she just says, oh, I understand. Point while taking while believing now.
And I thought that was beautiful because the lawyers were both sitting there going home. And she was like, no, no, you understand what this is about. You and I. Robert, if she gives me a check, I know she's good for it.
Yeah. Yeah. These women know. They know who they are.
They know who they are. They've already played the cards. They've already played the cards. Yes.
So in that regard, I will say when we're talking about our quality kills, I actually vote for Margaret because she didn't kill anybody, but she made me as well. So when I was in college, I wrote a thesis paper on the guy. I remember. We talked about this last episode.
Right. And you know, guy father three is universally reported as the ones that people hate. I actually like the show, not in the same neighborhood as number two and number one, but I did like number three. It's horrific.
It's not horrific. I actually liked it. But one of the reviews that I read, I can't remember whose review it was, but one of the reviews I read about the three at the time basically said they should have called it the grandmother because Talia Shire emerges as. She was pivotal.
Yeah. And when he has his diabetic coma and he comes in and she says to Garcia, just do it. Just do it. And she was just like, you know, making the command.
Well, I feel like Margaret is becoming the grandmother. Oh, yeah. Anybody's going to become the down in this story. Yes.
Yes. She is shoulders above Nucky in this regard as a gangster. And she emerges as the true and the un, you know, she's not disputed gangster in the story. She's a gangster now.
Back to my identity thing. Her identity is swift. Oh, completely. She's now super strong.
She is the rock that no one can fuck with now. Even Nucky's like in the last episode. He's like, you're on your own. Yeah.
Yeah. And I would actually say it in a different way, which is she has finally come to embrace her journey. Yeah. And let's go back to, and I don't want to do this too much in this.
Yeah. Because one of the things we miss with the podcast being crashed is that pivotal scene of Nucky and Margaret in the Italian restaurant. Oh, it's such a big line. When they really come to grips with not only are they coming to grips with who the other person is, they're coming to grips with who they are.
They take their armor off. They just speak through there. It's not a kind of talk reel. And actually, that he mentioned it.
I mean, that moment between Nucky and Margaret and the episode prior, the moment between Van Alden and Eli, and the moment between Nucky and Chaki are all very similar. It was all very like, all right. You hurt me. I hurt you.
We're done with this. We're stronger together than we are apart. And so it's very interesting how those three things, relationships, and what kind of else are we going to find? But interestingly, I think in episode four and in episode five, the most pivotal scenes in each episode involve Margaret.
Yeah. Well, she's making a lot of offers. The scenes from the Italian restaurant, not to quote Billy Joel. It's a hate Billy Joel.
But the scene from the Italian restaurant and the scene with the lawyers are probably the two most powerful segments of both episodes. And there were a lot of powerful segments in this episode. There were mass shootings that were, you know, hacked wall to wall. So at the end of this time, it's seen.
She talks to the world of the new bank, the bank. It's a very quiet scene that is like a pivotal to the whole story, right? I love that. She's so grateful.
She's a great phone and a phone and a camera. He can't refuse. So that my husband, Nucky, can short stock of the Mayflower, Mayflower, Drain Corporation. The one that Kenny was on the board of the lawyers in charge of.
Yes. What do we think of that? I love it. I think it's brilliant.
I mean, this guy is so grateful that Margaret worked this out because he was afraid that the lawyer was going to the hand. And when she came in and basically paid the guy off and handled it, the guy said, well, what can I do that? It's not out here, what you're going to do. Well, it isn't even so much as he would do anything for her.
He already knows he's in. He's out of a road that came to the back. Right? So now he has, it's not what can I do for you?
It's like, what do I have to do? Right, right, right. I think that's right. So I think this is where Margaret starts exercising some of the power that she's got.
The guy's mother. Some of the knowledge that she's better. But specifically about shorting a stock of the Mayflower Green. I love that part of it.
Oh, really? But what does that mean? Does that mean that Nucky has information that will help him make money on this proposition? Does it mean he's going to make a move that's going to obviously affect that?
And that's where he makes money in false with Kennedy? Is it going to have to crash something for Kennedy or to move to make money? I think it's going to be either payday. He's betting against him.
But is McCarty involved in that? I actually think this is purely emotional. No, I don't know. He's not even, I mean, Nucky wants to get paid.
But Margaret is not. No, no, no, no. He knows that he doesn't do anything on emotions. No, no, no.
Nucky is emasculated by Joe Kennedy. He's got an answer. Mine. And this is emotional for him.
OK, but he's betting that Joe's going to fail. He's betting that the nearby brain company is going to go down in flames. He doesn't take, he doesn't do that by chance. That's just betting that's going to happen.
Something's going to happen. Does he know, have insider information about it? Or is he going to act against it? Is he going to act against it?
Well, that's the banker. My impression of he was just going to make it happen. Probably short. Yeah, I don't think he knows anything.
I don't think he has any. Like do they have a ship with somebody coming in? No, I think he has a ship with somebody coming in. Yeah.
Like look at how rich Tim is. How do you think he has this way? Does he? OK, Kennedy.
Let me put out this. This is not what happened. Let's go down this road for a second. Nucky knows his relationship with Picard is bought.
Or potentially. No, it's not. That's not. He knows that Kennedy wanted to get in with Picard.
Does he now sweet talk Kennedy into going in with Picard, knowing that he can't make money in that. He can totally force this thing. I think the one thing that we haven't talked about yet, that's the person. There could be a force thing here.
He can make them get fucked and make money on the deal. There could be a force thing. I didn't make the connection with Picard. There could be a force thing.
He can catch him going and go in. He can go in with Picard. Yeah, kind of goes and goes with him. I thought Kennedy was done.
I thought we were going to do it. Oh, I think he's emotional now. I think it's almost revenge. It's vengeful.
Oh, yeah, it's vengeful. I don't even think it's beyond making money. I think it's vengeful. Of course, but it's always about making money with Nucky.
There's no vengeance for the sake of vengeance. There's always a money for him. He saw a Margaret. I don't know.
That would be a first, right? For Nucky, has he ever done anything that didn't involve money? Has he ever done anything for vengeance? Other than maybe when he burned the house down that he grew up in in season two.
We talked about last podcast or the podcast before episode before. Nucky is always looking three steps ahead. He's not doing this just thinking about it. He's not doing this.
He's going to make something. There's something there. There's something there. So, good point.
Back to the one thing that Nucky did for Chalky is he treats him as a friend. He gives him money before he leaves. Oh, Chalky. Yes.
Chalky is like, when did you become the... No, he's not. He's not. He's not.
He's not. Whatever the term he was. Right. What's this for?
This is between friends and friends. Between friends. He took the money. He went straight over to the place.
No, she's. What's that guy? Who? He's not even in the show.
With the idea of those whorehouses just skeaves me out. Oh, there's whorehouses everywhere in the 20s. Every character in this show has a whorehouse. I know, but not one that's funny.
Liby. Oh, Liby. All right. So, Nucky.
Stuck. He takes here. Yeah. I...