I'm Brian Myers. I'm Mike Ritalik. I'm Becky Hiddad. And this is Alpellentz, a podcast featuring tips for ad teachers.
We are your agricultural education resource across the web, sharing research-based tips and tackling the tough questions facing agriculture teachers every day. Alpellentz, welcome back to session number eight of our mini series here on mentoring. This is Brian here with Becky and Mike. We are by the Alpellentz and we have had a series of conversations around this topic of mentoring.
That's been pretty cool. I will have to say, it has been a pretty cool discussion. We are just talking here before we start recording that if somebody listens to all eight of these sessions, we probably send you a certificate suitable for framing and posting on the refrigerator. Probably have the three of our fake pictures on the certificate.
I can see it hanging there. And we can have Becky's dad sign all the certificates. That would be fantastic. That would be great.
So we're going to wrap this thing up. This is the final session of the series about recommendations that come out of this report when we talk about these sort of things. So Becky, get us going again on this conversation or as we talk about the recommendations around mentoring. Yeah.
I think in our last conversation, there was a tension maybe a little strong. I mean, since it's always higher on these two. I think a little bit of this, how do we separate the individual relationship from the organizational approach or program and what are we really looking at? What are we measuring?
And I think the report we haven't talked about this case of time, how the report is structured to move us from how do we define mentorship on this individual level to really how do we think more broadly about how we implement mentoring programs and how we think about what's actually happening as we try to help establish some of those mentoring relationships or help that along. So I think Brian, you mentioned the last conversation, the parallel teaching, you know, when it comes to how do we make this happen? It's like, it can be a really long process. We were just talking with one of my colleagues about how long it can really take you to learn something.
Well, similar with mentoring, it can take a long time to develop a relationship. And it's often time that we don't have. And so I think when we talk about these recommendations, they really get a little bit more to how do we think about helping mentoring along? And I think that's an important framing piece because we're moving out of just this.
What does this relationship look like? And how do we do this on the individual level where early conversations, the series really let us kind of think about individually, how do we think about that mentoring relationship? But we get to the recommendations, we're thinking a lot more about what's happening organizationally to kind of give a little nudge and see my hands. There's a little, there was a nudge.
That's what was occurring. Excellent. Well, and so the first of these recommendations talks about adopting an organizational definition of for mentorship. So I think, you know, might make some great comments there and some of our other podcasts talking about laying these kinds of things, the idea of purpose.
I think that's what this one's getting at. It's just making sure that you adopt and that requires several things. It requires one, having a clear purpose. But to get there, you've had a conversation with at least leaders in your organization or leaders of this program to have an agreed upon goal.
Yeah, I think for me, it means intentionality as well. So that purpose, but also being intentional about how we set this up, how we organize it, how we reward it, how we evaluate it. There's all kinds of elements and pieces that we need to think about instead of just saying, hey, we got a mentorship program. We're going to match people up and just turn them loose and we'll see you at the end of the year.
Yeah, we don't need to go. I won't read the definition again. You can go back to episodes one and two to hear the definition yet again if you hadn't heard enough of it. But I think what you two really call out is just that it highlights how much effective mentorship requires skill and support.
And that is a skill that can be learned. Obviously, there are some who are just naturally very great, like naturally good listeners, naturally good mentors, not in present company, but. I thought she was setting up there. My God, I thought she was.
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I was. you don't have to go back and recreate the wheel yourselves. There's probably things out there that you can beg, borrow, steal, adapt for your own needs. Even apart from some of the, like, the more personal skills, even thinking about just the skill of entry, the structure of relationship, we talked about that in the fifth installment of the series, but just kind of thinking about how do people enter?
Mentor, like, how do we think about entering mentoring as a skill? How do we think about balancing trust and actually using those tools? And so often we think about, well, here's the tool, like we provide the tool. We provide the tool.
We don't always do the best job. Like, here's how you actually like use this. Here's how you use like, here's a hammer, here's a hammer, here's a hammer. Cool.
Thanks. Thanks for the hammer. Now what? Well, and again, once again, the great segue to the third recommendation is establishing and using structured feedback systems to improve.
And so with that, you're using those tools, well, give me the feedback back. Then you're like, I've got these tools. I don't know how to use them or we have this tool that we're not. I don't think that I don't think we're using it correctly.
I don't think we're getting out of it. We don't, or maybe maybe I don't need a hammer this time. Maybe what I actually need is a wrench. You know, that sort of thing, the different tool.
Well, and those structures and systems are kind of put in place to really solidify and provide some intentionality. I think we've got to previously upon these segments as well, but having a structure in place so that we know that we're accomplishing what we set out to accomplish in the first place. And these structures certainly would help in that way. I think even thinking about those in terms of just being proactive with our feedback, like, let's be clear.
I know how to use a hammer, but if I didn't, sometimes you should be using a screwdriver and instead of a hammer. Right. Well, you may not know you have the wrong tool. You may like, you might get the tool and think, I don't have to use this and just just go to work using it, be using it, like, using it upside down or backwards.
You might have the wrong tool and not even know to ask for a different tool. Like, this is a tool I think I've got to use. I've got to figure out how to make it work. I think there can be a lot of this, like, surely there's something wrong with me as a tool isn't working.
So, so I think when we think about those established feedback, I think that established piece is really critical because it's not just I have a feedback system and like I have this loose feedback system in place. But I have really been intentional, kind of the mice point of thinking about where are going to where the place is going to be that people will go, Oh, shoot, what do I do with this? Or like, how do I know this isn't working? Have I then asked questions that help me say, Oh, yeah, that's not working the way it was designed or intended.
One of the things I might have brought up in the last recording as well, last episode about we need to be ongoing. We need to have intermediate feedback along the way as well at the end and not just not just wait until, OK, we're going to launch the first school year. Everybody coming back at the annual economic conference at the end of the year and like, Oh, my gosh, 74% of you are gone. What just happened?
You know, we got to have this feedback along the way. Yeah, absolutely. So the fourth recommendation of the book says recognize and respond to identities. That's going to be important for each of it.
And again, that's one that's going to require some some some thought and some functionality, but also we talked about before some preparation for those that are both mentoring and the ones that are that are receiving the mentoring. So they can really understand where each person is coming from. I think we talked about identity is some of that we talked about recognizing my own assumptions and kind of rethinking support. And I think some of that kind of back to the feedback piece of where am I getting out of my own head on this to be able to say what do you need, not what have I needed in the past to be able to think, you know, my experiences and everyone's my access isn't everyone's.
So how do I how do I have those mechanisms in place to step back and be responsive in the first place? Well, and I think too, it goes to the organization or the system that you're in and thinking of taking a step back and how does how does this mentoring program? How are the things that we're communicating really align with the values and the structures of the organization and does it support and carry on kind of who we want to be and those kind of things as well. Well, I think it also goes back to we kind of talk about this a lot is that need for a team of mentors because he's got to kind of recognize a different identity connect with that.
I mean, there's something that, you know, if you're teaching an urban area, you could probably mentor someone that teaches in a rural area in a lot of different aspects. But some ways you could be some some gaps there. And I'm sure, you know, female teachers need mentoring in there too, but there's also be other mentors as well that you can still provide these things. They're still going to be gaps.
And I was going to be like 100% match on your completely 100% understand everybody else's identity. So again, you got to have this team to understand their and build it up the best you can. I think that really can like that really helps spread that responsibility as well. Like one person can't be everything, but it does but like I think we've talked so far a lot about kind of that mentor and the program that they're a part of.
But there's throughout this there's responsibility on the mentee is why this is a two way. Responsible relationship as far as, you know, how do how do I recognize these things? How do I think about my mentor network more broadly than just kind of relying on this on this one person? And that's a great check for me to say, oh man, I am really counting on this person to be everything and I think not totally fair.
Well, I think I think your comments there, Becky, really start to talk about this next recommendation, which is supporting multiple mentorship structures. It was a bunch of different ways to go through here. Because I think we talked about it. Not only is it is a multiple mentor.
And I think we're this gets me going to is the way those mentorships are going to be structured before related and built are going to be different. Because I can think of it in my own case, there's time that I wanted to want one relationship with this person. There's time that I needed a relationship where I talk to this person every six weeks is all that I needed. And other times, it was kind of this kind of a group session where it might have been some peer mentoring that was going on for three or four or five of us in the same chat that we got to talk back and forth to each other.
And we talked about this earlier in the series. We think there's just kind of this power dynamic or hierarchy, but sometimes it can be this peer to peer mentorship, which is also very valuable. And I think that's what I see here as well, as you need to have that to where you have someone with maybe some more experience or that hierarchical type of thing. But there is this value of having a group of peers that you can talk with and share ideas with as well.
Yeah, I think one of the things that has probably been a theme through a lot of our conversations is this whole idea of mentorship is multi dimensional. And so it's not a one size fits all. It's not kind of a one and done, whether it's individual or group mentorship, there has to be structures in this has to look much more dynamic than what maybe some of us think about it times when it comes to mentoring. And I'll be honest with you on this list.
Here was the one the next recommendation was the one that I was like, I have not know what to do with it. They were talks about and I need my I need mentoring for my wise colleagues on here rewarding effective mentorship and where I'm going with it is I am all in on rewarding people for good stuff. But I think rewarding effective mentorship is challenging for a couple reasons is how do you just make a mentor effective and then what is this reward? Because yeah, I'll stop there and I'm like, it's hard stuff.
What do we do with that? Because we don't give a money. You know, do you get my plaque? I don't know what you do with that.
It gets into how sticky our assessment conversation was like, is it at the relationship level? Is it at the program level in terms of the outcome? Like, and it's one thing that the report, like there's not a special chapter. On rewarding effective mentorship.
Like in general, the things we've talked about so far in this episode got their own specific day in the report. Like they got their highlighted thing. Rewards did not. We are speculating completely.
I mean, maybe not completely, but there's not necessarily a guide in the report to say, here's this. Here's this reward or here's completely what this effectiveness looks like. Well, I think the challenge is that the rewarding process and system and award system that we have is probably going to be unique to the settings that we're talking about. So I don't know that we can solve that problem or even answer that question on a conversation much like this.
But I think the challenge is for those that are working with mentoring programs and involved with that is that you do have to think about how you award, recognize, acknowledge the work and the effort and the contribution that people have added to their profession or added to this mentoring experience because of what they've done. And so building that awareness, knowing that we got to recognize that and challenging those of us that those that are listening and involved in those programs, I think is the big, big recommendation here. Well, I think not falling into this trap of relying on mentoring being its own reward. Yeah.
I think we follow it. You know, like, because it does feel good. Like it feels good to be somebody's mentor. It feels like those things feel good when you're developing people.
And I think often, you know, the sensation can be, well, that's like, that's the reward. You've done this. You've done this thing. You've done it while that's great.
But I think it is really challenging us. Like Mike said, it's not just this. It's not just recognition. It's really how are we really honoring that effective mentor.
And I think so much of that is it does have to be intrinsic. You don't want to have, you know, you're going to say, and probably run the middle of teaching folks right now. So I'm thinking of teachers and we recognize people that they become the count. How many students you've posted, that's great.
That's a great way to do it. I don't ever think we should get to a point where we're like, OK, fella, this application and we're going to give you a banner for being the best mentor, you know? I have room in my office for one more banner. That's what I want.
That's what you want. I think there's plenty more room on that wall. He has those drawers filled with them. He's going to put them up on the wall.
Mallad, that's not so much of all spaces. The drawers, the storage space for all the banners in my office. But I think that's one thing I guess is that teachers, we need to make sure that we I think sometimes we think about we need to recognize something. It becomes an award and you'll come.
I don't think that's what this report's calling for. I don't think that's where we're going. A lot of it's going to be this informal, but also this recognition of thanking people for serving as mentors, but then also making sure those of us that have been mentored by someone, we tell them the impact that they've made in our lives and our careers heartfelt. It doesn't have to be a big deal.
It could be just a conversation. I think that's that's important as well. For the larger organization mentoring, I think it's important to think about your big mentors because if you're going to have a statewide, I teach your program and you're going to have a formalized deal where you're going to say, I'm going to put this earlier career teacher with this mentor teacher, make sure you're picking your mentor teachers with intentionality and understanding what you're saying and what you're not saying. When you pick this person to be a mentor, when you're not picking somebody else to be a mentor, you are trained a message there and recognition.
When I think even along those same lines, I heard another thread of things that we've talked about before with the reward also, is it just getting more mentees? You're doing a great job here. Have a couple of times. I'm more than I'm more than I'm more.
Like, I think that it's also that recognition of how do I acknowledge that this is the great things are happening? How do I honor that while also recognizing that not everybody can have that mentor? And that's a bummer and that's a reality of us being limited that way. But we need to be also, I think it's worth mentioning to be careful about saying your reward is to do more of this.
Perfect translation and transition because I'm killing the same way today. I am telling the same thing. Spinal recommendation, mitigate negative mentorship experiences. Does that mean that there it's not all roses and lobby pops and sunshine and unicorns?
Yes. I'm just saying yes. We've certainly talked to spend a great deal of our time thinking about all of the benefits and how we design and develop and evaluate or assess mentoring. And I think we all could agree the value and the richness that mentoring has on individuals and on organizations.
But we do need to at least take a step back and think pretty intentional about how do we not mess this up and how do we not have negative things happen. And then we can all think about how things can go wrong. So being intentional about addressing those proactively is probably something we need to think about. I think proactively from the how you make sure they don't happen, but also how do you make sure you acknowledge that they happen when they do because that helps address it proactively.
But also like if you think about the folks in your state who've had a negative experience with a mentoring program that's offered, they're not quiet about it. And that's not to say the mitigation is to go shut anybody up. But I think there's a lot of power in acknowledging, hey, this maybe didn't go quite as planned. Maybe this isn't like the best representation of our program.
This is where we're trying to fix something that goes a really long way in in mitigating how people perceive the overall, even the overall but not adventuring. Well, it's the idea we talk about for some really great outstanding teachers do not make good mentors. And so you find that on the way. And the other thing to come find out, you may have somebody who's been a great mentor for a number of years and life happens.
You know, they've had for whatever reason. Maybe they can't, they're not able to travel or make the time or the investment to do whatever else or two people that are in this relationship just don't jee-haw. And so that happens. And how are you going to be able to work these things out?
I think with this, there's also putting the mindset into whoever's courting the program and working with folks in a mentoring role. I heard this from one of the folks here at Florida who got it from somewhere. And where she got a Christmas relationship with me, people in relationships are inefficient, but they're not ineffective. And I think that's the thing to remember that building this relationship and mentoring is not any efficient process.
It's not a do these seven things in 20 minutes or less and you're going to have the person mentored. But even though it is not efficient, it is still effective when done right. And that's kind of what we're trying to do here by putting into the seven recommendations following through with all of the semesters that we've been doing here on mentoring. Well, a couple of things that the book actually or this report talks a little bit about too, if we're thinking more of an organizational mentorship program is having, just being intentional, having a third party, independent party that can negotiate some of the conflict that takes place.
And so no one's taking sides. They're hearing both sides and they try to resolve some of those issues. So we're all colleagues. We all have to continue to work and collaborate together as we move forward.
So thinking a little bit about that and then also thinking a little bit about regularly or periodic programmatic reviews. And so when do we take a step back and think about what are we doing through this mentoring program? Are we accomplishing what we set out to do and how can we tweak and kind of continue to improve it? Which does really good on.
I think the recommendation for there's all, it's not necessarily in the formalized recommendations, but it's kind of the summary. They're talking about the necessity for institutional changes. Not just, I think we talked a fair amount about the kind of how we measure the mentor mentee relationship, how we look at these recommendations in terms of programs. But ultimately thinking about how do we engage those that we're trying to serve through fostering these relationships as change agents to consider the relevance of what we're doing because they're the ones who are most directly involved with what we're trying to facilitate.
Well, y'all, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate us having this conversation. This is a little miss here around mentoring. It's one of those things that we kind of think we know is important, but we really don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about.
And unfortunately we go through and develop programs. Kind of like, hey, we need to have one of these and we're kind of thrown together. So hopefully those that are responsible for planning these programs or in these programs or even your own individual mentoring, you found this many series to be helpful as you're trying to develop those relationships, but also as you're trying to pour into other folks in the profession. Becky, I know it pains me to say nice things about you.
If I say where you can hear it's okay. Don't do it. I really appreciate you leading us through this conversation. It's been great.
You've definitely carried the water on this one. And so, you know, again, check this out. Go back and see the work here and see the report, look over those things, engage on social media with each other to learn from each other about what you found, the good, the bad, the ugly of both mentoring programs, but also one on one mentoring. So y'all go out there and invest in each other.
And so for Mike and Becky, this is Brian here by the OutPellot. Thank you all for joining us for another episode of OutPellot's Tips for Ag Teachers podcast. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of OutPellot's. Check out our website for more information on this topic and to learn more about our guests.
Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagrams. They connected. And be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you'll never miss an episode. For Mike and Becky, this is Brian here by the OutPellot's.
Saying thank you and we look forward to seeing you again on another episode of OutPellot's Tips for Ag Teachers.