Reconstructing Inclusion: Amri B. Johnson on Systems-Level DEI and Interdependence

Reconstructing Inclusion: Amri B. Johnson on Systems-Level DEI and InterdependenceEpisode Summary: In this episode of the Two Piers Podcast, Erica D’Eramo is joined by Amri B. Johnson—epidemiologist, social capitalist, and CEO of Inclusion Wins—for a dynamic conversation on what it takes to build truly inclusive systems in organizations.Drawing on his experience across public health, business strategy, and organizational design, Amri shares why many DEI efforts fall short—and how we can reconstruct them to be accessible, actionable, and sustainable. From the limits of representation to the power of interdependence, this episode offers a refreshing, systems-oriented perspective on inclusion.What We Talk About:Amri’s personal and professional journey—from Topeka to SwitzerlandInterdependence as a foundational DEI principleWhy inclusion must align with organizational purposeA case study on gender diversity and relational fitness in techThe difference between treatment vs. prevention in DEIHow upstream approaches drive long-term culture changeWhy engaging with dissenters strengthens—not weakens—DEI effortsPractical ways to make DEI part of your organizational DNAResources & Mentions:Amri's book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable (affiliate link)Amri's Substack blog and podcastAmri's website: inclusionwins.comFind Amri on LinkedInLike what you heard? Please subscribe, rate, and review The Two Piers Podcast wherever you listen—and help us bring more courageous conversations to more ears.